MARCH 25: Yates underwent successful Tommy John surgery, Kaitlyn McGrath of The Athletic tweets. He’ll miss the entire season.
MARCH 23, 10:15pm: Yates’ elbow was also an issue during the offseason, as the Braves backed out of a one-year, $9MM guarantee, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports. The Blue Jays also reduced his $8.5MM deal, per Rosenthal. Toronto knew at the time that Atlanta pulled its offer off the table.
3:38pm: The Blue Jays received some unwelcome injury news Tuesday, Kaitlyn McGrath of The Athletic was among those to report. Right-handed reliever Kirby Yates will likely undergo Tommy John surgery and miss the entire season, outfielder George Springer has a Grade 2 oblique strain, and lefty Robbie Ray suffered a bruised elbow.
An elite end-of-game option with the Padres from 2018-19, Yates threw 4 1/3 innings last season as he dealt with elbow issues. That didn’t stop the Blue Jays from taking a one-year, $5.5MM chance on him in free agency this past offseason, but the would-be closer was diagnosed with a flexor strain Monday. It now looks as if Yates may never pitch for the club, which could lean on the likes of Jordan Romano, David Phelps, Rafael Dolis and Tyler Chatwood for saves in his absence.
The news on Springer and Ray also comes off as alarming, though neither injury appears especially serious. Toronto is hopeful that Springer, a former Astros standout who signed a whopping six-year, $150MM guarantee in the offseason, will be ready for Opening Day. Likewise, the Jays could have Ray ready for the start of the season. The team re-signed him to a one-year, $8MM pact in free agency.
Jays knew it was a risky signing. Season ending elbow surgery last August, signed him below market value and now he’s done.
With that, Atkins should not receive an extension from the Blue Jays. He’s done some good but enough bad to move another direction to get this young core over the hump.
Hope Yates comes back in 2022 at full strength. Another job created.
Yeah, I mean all he’s done is draft and develop the young core, pull of a heist in the Marcus Stroman trade, and sign Ryu and Springer. What a bum.
Please explain how Strohman was a heist. Not being catty, just interested in you analysis
So he did the bare minimum. Cool. But the Stroman deal was not a heist. Not in the least. The winner of the trade is still yet to be determined.
The “bare minimum” lmfao. I’m sorry, but that statement is simply unintelligent.
A GM is not supposed to improve a farm system and draft? Explain the part where it’s unintelligent because it seems you don’t have a clue how to formulate an answer.
Also, an argument could be made that the drafting has been decent rather than good, as two key players are international signings, one made by his predecessor in Vlad. He also did not want to draft Bo. That is well documented.
Now, have an answer.
And Shapiro Atkins then fired the scout who fought for Bo Bichette. The dodgers promptly hired that same scout.
The Mets got nothing from the Stroman trade. Worst case scenario for the Jays that trade is a wash. Although I do agree that one of SWR or Anthony Kay is going to have to turn into an ace or an elite reliever for the trade to be considered a “heist.”
The Mets got nothing? So if the Mets go far in the playoffs you think storman won’t be part of it?
The Mets only got his 2019 and 2020 seasons from that trade. Anything he does post-2020 has no bearing on the matter.
@ jimthegoat
He’s a Met right now precisely because of that trade, got a Q.O. this past offseason and accepted it.
He’s now the Mets #2 starter behind Degrom while Syndergaard and Carrassco are on the shelf for the few next months.
Stro overall is a #3 starter with great work ethic and pitching smarts who strives to improve. Losing SWR in that trade was somewhat tough for this Mets fan, but I’m very happy Stro’s a Met. and do not miss the others included in that trade.
Exactly. We were able to extend his QO bc of the trade.
Without the trade we wouldn’t have been able to offer him the QO. So the trade does count for this year.
You say that like it’s a good thing.
Stroman was a FA at the end of last season. Whatever he does for them this year has nothing to do with the trade.
@jimthegoat
Very good thing., quality big league pitcher with some swagger who strives to improve, can mix it up on the mound, is authentic, good teammate and local guy who gets to pitch for hometown team.
@citizeng28
If not for that trade, he wouldn’t be a Met right now signed thru Q..O. which can only be offered if on the team in the season prior to free agency.. So yes, that trade has everything to do with him being a Met in 2021.
He is on a Qualifying Offer, not as a free agent. One could argue the Mets keeping him on a QO is part of the deal, as would be any draft compensation if he had left.
Well ever hear of Dave Dumbrowski? The man has gutted every clubs farm system he’s ever been with, yet he always lands on his feet somewhere. So drafting good players and development of them is key to prolonged success. Look at the dumpster fires DD left behind him in Detroit and Boston.
Since the Mets made the trade they were able to give him the Q.O. which basically is a 1 yr contract then he’s a FA again after this season.
He was signed through 2020. He wasn’t under contract as of 5-7 days after the World Series was over. However, the Mets had a small window where they could extend him a Q.O. At that point it was Stroman’s choice to either accept the Q.O. or become a free agent. Since he chose not to play last season, it was a no-brainer.
You couldn’t trade Stroman straight up for Kay and Woods-Richardson if you were the Mets right now that’s for sure, and they have gotten little to nothing from the Stro show up until this point. It would take an absolute career year coming up for Marcus if the Mets are to win this trade.
His teams have won two World Series.
The job of any GM is to win. Dave checks off that box quite nicely.
He’s won rings at every stop, right? Yes, he guts a farm system but he has a strategy that has produced multiple championships.
Tell that to the Tigers
That’s what I was going to say.
Once the Mets signed him to an extension, the evaluation of what he brought in surplus value in that trade stopped. The Blue Jays maybe haven’t “made out great” but they got some nice prospects back in that deal and will start seeing what value they bring in the next few seasons.
Trading 59.2 mediocre innings of Stroman for Woods Richardson and Kay is a definite win. Although I can’t credit Atkins with somehow predicting that Stroman would opt out of 2020, so it was luck.
The stroman trade wasn’t a heist.
Don’t start crying when they finish 77-85
Any criticism of Atkins’ moves at this point is extremely premature. On another note, oblique tweaks are tough to bounce back from quickly. Springer being ready for Opening Day might be a little too optimistic.
Outbidding every other team for a player’s services does not make him a good GM. Especially when the player hasn’t even played a game for his new team yet.
Do you understand how free agency works. Literally out bidding every other team for a players services. But I guess you also want to ignore the drafting of Bichette, Biggio, Pearson. The signings of Gurriel and Kirk, the trades for Hernandez, SWR etc.
1 yr/$5 mil risk is well worth it. Didn’t work out this time. Oh, well. They are no worse than were they were at the end of last season. Judging a deal based on an injury is dumb. As usual, your takes are garbage.
There are patterns. It’s something you do when you follow baseball. Something you still haven’t proved you can do. As usual, your hot take done cold.
The personal attacks in this comment section are exhausting. Always a pissing contest
It’s exhausting to read commenters insulting other commenters. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion even though mine is always the best.
lol.
@jimmertee Spot on. This made me laugh!
“They are no worse than were they were at the end of last season.”
LOL
Maybe not on their roster, but their budget is down $5m.
Samuel, that $5-mil could’ve went to SP where the Jays are weak and thin. It’s something Nebraska does not understand as he lacks depth in thinking.
Add the $5-mil on-top of another transaction and perhaps the team is better? I’m sure the Jays would be better with Shoemaker at $4-mil in the 5th slot than Roark in the 3 or 4 slot instead of signing Yates, and moving Roark to the long-man/6th slot. Also would’ve kept Merryweather in the bullpen.
It a $5 mil gamble. If it had worked out, it would have been the steal of the offseason. It didn’t in this case, oh well. A flier on an elite closer for $5mil is worth more than slightly improving your 4th starter. You are judging by outcome and not process. If you can’t understand why that’s dumb then there is no reason to engage with you.
Would appear you are not as well informed as you think you are. For the 2nd time- try to comprehend this time. March 16th Aitkens in an interview clarified Merryweather’s role as a opener or multi inning guy out of the pen.
Keep trying Wild Bill you may get it right someday.
@steve is a tool. If you don’t agree with the clown you are deemed a fool. So much for being able to have your own opinions…
You aren’t engaging Nebraska, you’re trying to pick a fight with the last line from your first response. You have zero respect for opinion you do not agree with, and you have no clue of the last 5 years watching the process play out as a Blue Jays fan. I do, and I could recite several issues that negate the good that has come out of this organization.
Every signing is a gamble, and this one was on a player who had elbow issues stemming from 7 months ago. The Jays had a plethora of different, safer options and chose this route.
Darn right I’m judging the process. How you can’t see that is baffling. But there is no reason to engage with you. You know little.
Marko – October 2020 – Merryweather will resume as a starter in 2021, as per Ross Atkins.
Yes things change on the fly. Clearly. The offseason was conducted with Merryweather not in-mind for a relief role in 2021. That is how the Jays proceeded.
Marko, enough with the attacks. You need to settle down, and please do not come at me without a full arsenal of information.
Oh so I don’t watch games but you are using 5 month old info- gotcha. Simply pointing out you are not the Jays expert you think you are. You try and belittle anyone who has a differing opinion. Your replies to Steve in this thread is just 1 of many examples. People in glasses houses kiddo.
Agree, though the price wasn’t high. Yates was an elite closer for about a day (well a year) and as stated was an high injury risk. Wouldn’t have gone in that direction.
Marko, Steve started in. Just like you started in with your usual anger. The child here is you. I brought and opinion, you two brought personal attacks. That is what happens when you don’t know what you are talking about. I dismantled your argument quick and swiftly.
WildBill
Only a fool is proven wrong as You were about Merryweather’s role and then argue they dismantled an argument. Laughable. Do you not see what a joke you make of yourself on here? Frequently.
Jesus Markkko calm down. Atkins said Merryweather was going to be a starter in 2021 along with Hatch and others. This is not new. You are ignoring that as Atkins went about the offseason looking to fill holes, including spots made available by both Merryweather and Hatch as they were slated to be starters in Buffalo.
Why are you angry?
“It a $5 mil gamble. If it had worked out, it would have been the steal of the offseason. It didn’t in this case, oh well. A flier on an elite closer for $5mil is worth more than slightly improving your 4th starter.
@ Steve Nebraska;
People at the top are paid to make decisions….
The Padres are a contending team this year. Their owner is giving them a large budget. $5m for an “elite closer” seems to me to be a bit thin. Jeez, the Padres gave Pomeranz 4/34 and he doesn’t nearly have the track record Yates has.
I couldn’t understand why a contender would let their closer go as they prepare to contend. I figured the Padres had to know something.
As for Shapiro…..
He built up that team and deserves credit for it. But he built it on hitting – not on defense and not on pitching. I keep writing – he doesn’t understand pitching (and worse yet, Atkins is a former pitcher….one would think that would be his bailiwick)
One of Shapiro’s traits is that his ego and SJW outlook on baseball makes him think he can fix and rejuvenate veterans. Look it up, his track record is awful.
Usually there is insurance on deals, while it usually doesnt cover it all there will be some return
Wild Bill
You should prob read more and comment less. Then you might be better up to date on players roles.
and what if they signed a SP and he got injured?
They didn’t. They signed an injured RP who had surgery in August. At least your boy Dombrowski didn’t do that.
As usual all Tatsumaki can do is call people names. If you want to see a tool or a clown look in the mirror.
Yes this team is one $5mill starting pitcher short. For that kind of money, they could have brought in Chase Anderson.
Tattedmama, you are the ultimate clown. You laugh at players with injuries.
@samuel
Knows nothing about pitching?
You may wanna go look at that pitching staff in Cleveland that he had a large hand in building over the last 15 years
@VegasSDfan are you and Pads Fans or whatever he is calling himself nowadays going to drop a link to Luis Campusano’s charges being reduced to a misdemeanor or nah?
This has nothing to do with their GM and an extension. They took a chance it didn’t work out. That’s it.
GM and extension talks have ramped up this week. You have to look at the body of work. This is included in the body of work.
@Guest –
I wonder who is actually more culpable in this. Is it Atkins because the buck stops with him – or whatever. Or would it be on whomever made the medical evaluation. I can see the argument either way.
I’m genuinely curious. I see variations of this take with every fan base at one time or another. Cashman gets hammered on this one, for example.
I’d be interested in any insight into baseball decision making on this – no matter how sketchy – that anyone would have.
Ducky that’s a good point regarding the doctor. I just had a discussion over text with a buddy about that. Ultimately the final decision comes from the GM on this, so I have to lay most of the blame on him. Atkins has been around the game for decades. He’s not some Ivy Leaguer who picked up “Moneyball” and became an executive overnight.
The Yankees have dealt with injuries the last two years. Despite having perhaps the most injuries of any team, they managed to reach the postseason. If they can hold it together they will be hard to beat.
The “buck stops here” leads to one of those…I think it’s argumentum ad circulum (?). Circular argument, anyway.
A fella can’t be good at everything.
I don’t even wanna meet the guy who is anyway. So you have to rely on your people. Right?
But…they’re his people.
So in a broad sense he has to accept the blame. I’d just really like some actual insight into the decision process of free agents & injury risk/history/evaluation.
Probably varies club to club.
Pretty bland take.
Doctor(s) could be used as a scapegoat. That’s possible.
Jays fans forget the move that did Gord Ash in; trading David Wells to the White Sox for Mike Sirotka and company. Sirotka never threw a pitch for the Jays. There was controversy. But unlike Yates, Sirotka had been healthy the previous three seasons racking up over 600 innings. It was the final dagger in the Ash-led Blue Jays. But he sent Halladay to Single-A 20 years ago to work on his game with pitching coach Mel Queen. Then he became Roy Halladay. Ash gave the Jays a parting gift. Ash was still fired anyway.
Somewhat of a correlation to Atkins, only Yates had prior elbow issues that were known.
Gotta love the wannabe GM’s. Atkins has done amazing work. This is silly.
Not so much silly as cretinous. But that account and his jimmerbee alter ego bring good entertainment value.
Lol @ Atkins not receiving an extension.
yes Atkins shouldnt be extended because two guys he signed just so happened to get injured. smh.
DarkSide there’s more to the reason beyond signing a guy with a damaged elbow. You know better than to make this kind of presumption.
It horrible news. I have always like Yates.
Normally when someone has TJ, I write them off for two years. One year to recover, a then a few months to regain their command.
I don’t expect much from Sale or Thor this year. Their arms might be fine, but I doubt they’ll have the necessary command to be good pitchers.
Seems weird to hinge Atkins’ future on the Yates signing. Also, the team went through a full rebuild in four seasons, is now a playoff contender and still has a top-10 farm system. I honestly don’t see how you could expect to improve on that from the slate of available executives. Of course he’s made mistakes but that kind of goes with the territory.
I’d be interested to hear who you think should replace him.
Absolutely true. Show me a GM whose never made a mistake and I’ll show you a GM whose never made a move.
Now this is more like the level entertainment we’ve come to expect from this clown and his band of idiots. LOL! Keep trolling bud, it’s getting better.
Let’s not judge Atkins fate on this transaction. He is somewhat controlled by Shapiro and how much he can spend. I commend him for landing Springer and he did all he could to land Bauer. Why he didn’t go hard after Paxton is a mystery. He has drafted well and they have an amazing core. Just need some pitching but who doesn’t lol. I am a Yankees fan and admit the Jays are a threat and have a great window to win for many years
He’s going to receive an extension. This is a playoff team. The bullpen is severely underrated even without Yates. The lineup 1 through 9 is at the very least going to be a top 8 offense. I’m just hoping Richardson breaks with the team even though it’s unlikely. The kid has been lights out thus far. Same with Castro coming out of the pen.
The Blue Jays have wonderful luck…
@putpeteroseinthehall – I upvote you because of your handle. Don’t make me regret it by some crazy post down the road!
Oh no
This sucks for Kirby. Not fair, he deserves better, I hope he can rebound next year
Karma for the hideous Canadian government.
Oh the irony
LOL
Richard Rodriguez would be good low risk trade target
Cherington knows their system lol. Rich Rod is a over achiever but he certainly is available. Will be a ton of guys on trade for cheap or waivers this week and next.
there is some familiarity in that front office. it’s not a crazy idea
Yikes didn’t think it’d be that bad. Loved Kirby when he was on the Padres, but it shows how volatile relievers are.
Signs were there. Padres are in on every free agent and trade. So if they didn’t want to keep him…. Jays took on a huge risk, didn’t think it was worth the reward.
Is Tom Henke or Duane Ward available?
Cross him off then
Shane Greene is now staring at his phone.
Yeah, but that hasn’t changed for a couple months, @dirkg.
Well, Tim Mayza might make the team then. Yates going on 60 day list also frees up spot for Liriano. Romano and Dolis will close and I am good with that. Romano looks completely dominant so far. Could be the Jays closer for the next 5 years.
Castro better be in that mix. Deserves a shot.
The Jays could wait a week and try to add a bullpen piece off waivers
Yankees to the Jays: “Come on in the water is warm!”
Jays could get Kimbrel cheap
They could’ve completed a package of some kind with Kimbrel included in the offseason. I doubt they’ll want him now. Luckily the Jays have a lot of quality bullpen arms.
Yes they still have Dolis and uhhh….. some other guys
The closer of the future Romano?
1.80 ERA over 5 innings with 12 SO so far this spring
and that is following after putting up a 1.23 ERA over 14.2 innings with 21 SO after his call up last season.
He was on track to be the closer next season after the one year Kirby stop gap, but now the time table gets bumped up a year now.
Two years ago Romano was in the Texas Rangers camp after the White Sox drafted him in the Rule 5 and traded him to Texas. He should be the Rangers closer right now.
All because Atkins and company thought little of Romano. They still don’t think he can be the closer thanks to their acquisition of Yates and announcing it’ll be closer by committee.
You keep repeating this but he showed nothing for the Rangers to warrant their keeping him .
“This is actually the first offseason where my primary focus hasn’t been working on a changeup,” Romano said. “This year I worked a lot with the Rapsodo ”
He was referring to the 2019 off season. and he’s benefiting from a new grip on the pitch. (slider )
You try and portray it as Aitkens giving up on a lights out reliever which is wrong. Surprise surprise.
He did. There is no disputing it. Romano was a AA All-Star in 2018. No promotion that year. Why are you angry? Vitriol will not help your arguments.
Lol you are funny- anyone who calls you out is angry . Get a grip. AA all star does not guarantee MLB success or have you forgotten Bergen and his 0.50 AA Era a few yrs ago.
You are angry.
Minor league success deserves promotion when the level above has an opening or struggling players at the positions. Bergen deserved to be promoted up a level when he had a great year. When I was on this site I wanted both Bergen and Romano to be protected on the 40-man. Punishing success on a non-contending team with young arms is absurd.
Why are you angry?
For about the 10th time it has nothing to do with being angry WildBillTetley , it has to do with calling out an arrogant joker with a huge ego. Fun fact WildBillTetley you are the reason I joined last year . I was just reading for months finally your poor takes, arrogance and the way you tried to belittle those who disagreed .
Why don’t you grow a pair man up and own it. You change you alias often to hide from your comments.
Oh boy, here we go again…
Signing Yates doesn’t mean they don’t have confidence in Romano as the future closer. The key being “future”. Yates was a lottery ticket gamble that could have been a game changer for the entire pen. They seen a cheap stop gap to give him one more year of growth without the pressure on Romano of being the everyday closer. They gave him 3 save opportunities last season, and he pitched in mostly high leverage situations and is likely to be a set-up man or now one of the closer options this year.
One has to wonder why we are all not GM’s with all this quality insight? You’d think the phones would be ringing off the hooks!
I’m sure they could also get Chris Davis or Albert Pujols cheap too. What’s your point?
Springer eating all that 2nd helping of steak and lobster
Kirby, OK. That happens. Although the Padres had to have some indication something was wrong to let a guy like that go.
But Springer?
I’m looking at all these pre-season injuries and wondering…..
This is what these people do for a living. Most make over $1m a year. They play for 6-7 months (depending on if they make the playoffs), and do one month of Spring Training.
How can so many of these “professionals” show up unprepared to do their job? They have access to qualified trainers, fitness instructors, etc., along with the best equipment and monitoring equipment available in the world. I’m quite old and work out 5 days a week. I see people regularly in the exercise facility I go to that keep themselves up even though it’s not a pre-requisite for their job. We’ve talked about how with the advancements in nutrition and all areas of physical well being, there seem to be more injuries in pro sports then ever before.
It’s not just Springer.
You don’t get swole with pilates, bro.
Ducky Buckin Fent@;
LOL
There you go again……
Never did palates in my life, although a friends wife got certified in it and teaches some college and pro athletes, among others. Do know a lot of professional people with advanced degrees in physiology – Masters, PHD’s and others. They work with professional athletes and professional dances (no, not the “dancers” you go to see).
You may be onto something tho – maybe if Springer did platies he could have made it through Spring Training.
But you are consistent – you know nothing about me, and nothing about how baseball is played and administered. It’s good when the music and words fit.
Lol
I was actually siding with you. It appears it was overly subtle & nuanced. I’m just unsure of where to go from here at this point, @Samual.
So…Yes! I win!!, as a fallback.
If you work out with any sort of intensity 5 days a week, you will get little nagging injuries. If you were a professional athlete, same things happen, but I guess your “workout” is a light jog for 20 minutes or some curls in the squat rack.
@ Nebraska –
Blech on the “light jog” stuff.
I’m a pretty serious bird hunter. In full gear, with gun, dogs, etc I work at a 2.5-3.0 mile/hr pace, 2-4 hours, 70-80 times a year. Any terrain. So my cardio is good, bro.
Ya only sorta got me on it: I go to one of those chain, spin cycle, “boxing” gyms. Hey, it’s convenient, better than a treadmill, & if I ever wanna fish in the suburban housewife pool it’s the proverbial barrel.
On the lifting?
Busted.
Completely.
Curl bar because: Polo shirts, bro.
The key to staying healthy in baseball is long, lean, flexible muscle mass. Some of these players are too big (muscular wise) to withstand the rigors of a 162 game schedule. They actually might be in too good of shape to hold up for a full season! The ‘out of shape’ players like Ji Man Choi who can do a full split seem to stay healthier than the players who can get the shirtless cover page on Men’s Health magazine.
On the pitching side, the advanced analytics are killing pitchers. Teams are paying pitchers big bucks for two things that are not conducive their overall arm health: strikeouts and spin rate. Pitchers are throwing nearly every pitch at maximum effort and are so concerned with spin rate that they are putting way too much stress on their elbows / UCLs. I really wonder how much attention/fanfare Greg Maddox would get if he was a rookie in this baseball environment? There are some other successful, ‘soft-tossing’, control pitchers like Kyle Hendrix today but they are not getting paid top dollar like a Gerit Cole or Trevor Bauer. These guys want to maximize their earnings so they are destroying their arms trying to do that.
My “don’t get swole with pilates bro” was meant to throw some shade on how a lot of these guys seem to train.
I totally understand it, too. When I played I slopped through warm ups & cool down sometimes, too. I think it’s the follies of youth.
It’s interesting. My son plays high school sports. The training *seems* a lot better. It also doesn’t seem like the amount of injuries has lessened since I played, either.
But there are just so many different factors to that, as well. In football – the one sport we both played/play – the kids really are bigger, & faster, & stronger.
I’m really interested to see how/if/when Eric Cressey has an impact on the Yankees. What a perfect test case. The year before he took over the Yanks set all time injury records (which obviously sucked). Pretty low bar.
Ducky, I absolutely cracked up on your posts – first because I got the joke, then because he didn’t. But, yeah, it’s probably a combination of a lot of things or the PhDs of the fitness world would’ve written a white paper on the manner in which one continues to injure oneself.
Nonetheless, it does seem a bit odd that the best trainers, using the best training, on the best equipment, with the best nutrition, teaching the best athletes how to train, hasn’t significantly reduced injuries.
What’s up, @Clip?
Man, I’ve been up putting out fires all damn evening. My partner tested positive for Covid. This has lead to – ya know – problems.
Thought I was outta the woods on all that.
Alas.
So I’m up well past my little bedtime & I’ve had far too much ale to aid my ruminations.
I can’t remember exactly why I offended Mr Samuel. In the end, I’ll go with, “well, there’s no accounting for taste”, & make it his fault. I’m good with it.
“hasn’t significantly reduced injuries.”
Have those things done the opposite?
For real.
Was Ripken just a freak? mmmmm…better way to put it: how much of a genetic freak was he?
Tom Brady is a poster child for modern training methods. But – in general – I see no decrease & I see what appears to me to actually be an *increase* in this all this injury stuff.
This is why I’m really interested in the effect Cressey will have. If you were going to create a perfect test scenario our Yankees – unfortunately – are it.
News on that front hasn’t been any worse than other clubs this spring & – if anything – appears to be a bit less than a lot of teams. Jay’s being the latest example.
Hey, thanks for talking some baseball, serious.
Hey @Ducky, I hope your partner comes through okay. Sorry, had to step away and deal with something.
Anyway, yeah, Ripken, my thoughts precisely – are we just going to acknowledge that, despite all the advances, the human body is simply limited and 90% of these guys are huge, and appear to have the ability of two Mantles, but their body just cannot sustain. Which then begs the question, how did Mantle do it injured and drinking all the time? To your point – genetic freak.
There are some that will be able to do it. Others, in their quest to achieve those higher levels, are damaging themselves so bad in the process they’re just counterproductive after a couple years of phenomenal performance. Ripken – beast, Mantle – otherworldly, Gehrig, Mays, Aaron – those guys were just……. different. And no matter how big, strong, tall, athletic some of these guys are, they will just never be able to perform even close because getting there means pushing their body to the point where it breaks down.
Overall, I think most players that want to stay healthy will be left with a choice: accept fewer home runs and stay healthy, or get big, strong, and have the capability to jack 95 homers, but get an oblique strain which keeps you out for 75 games because you cannot recover.
Oh shoot, another perfect example! Nolan Ryan. Threw 100 mph for 23 years or whatever. Guys not throw 100, but they have TJS by 25. These guys can do it, but break themselves in the process. Or, they can throw 95 and not be broken – but therein lies the rub, and all the complexity because it ain’t nearly that easy…..
God bless, my friend.
“Guys **now** throw 100” should say. Missed that.
Just created some headaches I didn’t want to deal with, Clip. The joys of owning a business, right? We’ll figure it out. I just sorta thought I wouldn’t have to be navigating this stuff again.
& – man – right when we’re just getting building for the season, too.
Always something.
Anyway.
I really wonder about this stuff.
The training regimen set out for my son in the sports he plays just looks so well thought out. But these kids get hurt just as much as we did.
I swear it.
Baseball has certainly changed a lot.
Not always for the better.
To me, it seems TTO offense is the equivalent of “three yards & a cloud of dust” in football.
Except in baseball…it’s the evolution not the fossil.
I’m tempted to play the “players from my generation were tougher” card but I’m not sure that’s entirely valid. But position players in MLB used to routinely play 150+ games/yr. Every team seemed to have a guy or two that played all 162.
It wasn’t a big deal. & let’s not even begin to talk about how much less pitchers throw every year.
I’m just not smart enough to figure out the answer on this, Clip.
I’d really not care to have another season like the last few. It’s not that much fun waiting for a half dozen players to get back at a time.
Ya know?
Every day, man, he does.
So grateful.
God bless you too, Clip.
Greg Maddux actually threw quite hard when he was young.
My inner cynic wonders how many players are gaming the IL these days.
Paid to rehab a minor injury rather than play through it and possibly really injure it and risk future earnings.
Does Donaldson’s calf get better in contract years is something I’ll be curious about this season. Maybe Chris Davis finds his swing next year. Tulowitzki would have gotten healthy if he was just given another half season?
With pitchers, the team seems to be the overly cautious side. How many little pains get investigated these days that turn out to be something bigger. There are more ready available arms to step up so teams are more inclined to find a reason to swap out an under-performing arm.
This guy’s killing us, someone should bean him in BP so we can put him on the IL….
Couple cents to add, maybe just non-cents… enjoy!
That is not good for the Jays and Springer. Although an oblique injury seems relatively minor, Aaron Judge can tell all MLB just how long an IL stint that may result in. As I said before, major surgery? No problem, we will make it through. Pulled hammy? Oblique or calf strain? See you never.
Hopefully he can recover and be back to himself sooner than later for his team’s sake. Won’t be the same playing the Jays without him.
Not a good day for the Jays at all.
Honestly, the starting pitching injuries could be a blessing in disguise. It would be nice to see what we have in Kay and Zeuch and further down the road this season woods-Richardson and manoah.
I think the Jays should throw more money at Yates and sign him for another year @$1m. That $1m or so not going to matter this year since they are not winning anything in 2021.
Yates can have the surgery right away and be ready for next year. Minimal investment.
Which they could’ve done with Giles this past offseason. Not a bad idea.
There’s no reason for Yates to sign that. Just like there was no reason for Giles to sign that. Yates will probably sign a 2 year deal in the winter similar to the one Giles signed (because he’s likely to miss a significant portion of 2022).
There was no reason for the Jays to sign Yates either. Especially if people are calling it “no loss”. Then they should’ve moved on after the medical.
Oh God were the Yankees this year
we’re
Well the Yankees were still a contender thru the injures. The Jays depth is about to be tested early.
Longtimecoming and Hudson6 where are you?
I don’t know about anyone else but I’m wondering how someone like you can be such a hole by celebrating that now, it is a fact that KY is having TJ. Also, planning to celebrate Lamet getting the start tomorrow and hoping for the best for Lamet, KY and all others suffering an injury while trying to do their jobs!
I’m not celebrating Yates or anyone else getting TJ. Just calling you out for laying it all so vehemently on the line only to end up with egg on face.
But hey, at least you didn’t go into hiding like the other guy. I gotta at least give you a little credit for that…
@ Remove
I brought up 3 players with forearm soreness. 1 of the 3 needs Tommy John. Now I know that in baseball a .333 average is awesome, but when you are talking about injury going 1 for 3 gets you fired.
“Forearm soreness = Tommy John.” I didn’t see a 1 out of 3 times in your quote now did I?
Pomeranz- threw a bullpen today. No problems.
Gallen- stress fracture in forearm. No TJ needed.
So I guess forearm soreness does NOT EQUAL TOMMY JOHN!
@Hudson6 Like I said before, some pitchers are able to go several months between the forearm soreness diagnosis and Tommy John surgery. Colin Rea went 11 months, for instance. And I think Robbie Erlin went like a year and a half. But TJS for Pomeranz and Gallen is a matter of when, not if.
@ Remove
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j…
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j…
The second article plainly states that in mlb 26 out of 134(19.4%) forearm injuries resulted in Tommy John. In the minor leagues, it was 56 out of 629(8.9%). Is it crazy for me to believe The Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine over some random poster’s opinion? I guess that makes me crazy!
@Hudson6 wow. I’m actually a little impressed that you went through the trouble.
impressed but still won’t stop you from spewing incorrect crap just like there is no admission of being incorrect in this instance
@mystery – Bingo and preach on. Tools will be tools.
@Remove – the point is, you cry TJ on every player that leaves the mound line you are qualified. Some will undoubtedly need TJ / some (most based on statistics) don’t. The rest of us use “might” or “I hope he doesn’t” while you immediately, like someone with an ability to know, says that it is a “fact” that the player needs to TJ. It comes off as that you are happy for an opposing teams player to be hurt. I think if you would just wait for the doctor to make the prognosis before citing to “facts” people would leave you alone. It isn’t a prediction game when dealing with peoples lives. It isn’t the “I was first into call it”. Of course you will be right some small percentage. Yes, you call it day 1 and a guy needs it 18 months from now (Erlin). Really, 18 months and you know for a “fact” it was due to the day he walked off the mound and you “called it”.
@Longtimecoming I am not “hoping for” or “happy that” a player needs TJ. That is just you reading too much into things.
Pitching was always the question with Toronto this year and the picture just got a lot murkier with this news. Don’t count out Boston this year. They’ll need a lot of things to go right for them but they finally have some depth on their 40 man roster and 3-4 rookies who could make their debuts this year if they show well in AAA. Much like Toronto, Boston’s success starts and ends on the mound in 2021. A couple more key injuries in New York and Toronto and Boston could make a real push for a wild card this year. Tampa looks healthy so far but they lost some key contributors from last year’s AL championship team, so we’ll have to wait and see if their gambles on Rich Hill, Archer and Wacha pay off. The AL East is now wide open for the top 4 teams in the division.
The Blue Jays are deep enough to shrug off an injury to anyone but Ryu and still be competitive. Ryu goes down for an extended period (as he has done alarmingly often) and the season is over.
I think Boston has what it takes to catch the Orioles.
Wow, talk about a double header. Hang tuff Blue Jay fans.
Mets Curse needs to be updated that Springer did not sign with the Mets.
wow that sucks
Please close the comment sections… you do it for controversial topics. It always ends up being a pissing contest between two idiots.
So basically every comment section this site that isn’t closed.
Don’t forget to include a link! :-}
Sports talk dies in darkness.
Robbie Ray fell down the stairs and bruised his left elbow. Stairs-suitcases-sprinkler heads- run downs. The Jays have their share of fluke accidents in recent years.
That’s life. Take any group of 40 people and you’ll get a few of those accidents in a year.
I am in absolute awe as to how much a majority of you do not get it.
None of these people deserve extentions, Ross, Charlie. Mark should not be president.
If George Springer is out for opening day, I hope it opens a spot for Johnathan Davis to get the call. It’s hard not to root for a guy like that.
It’s funny how everyone was saying “wow the jays are so good they are better than the rays and Yankees” two injuries and they’re team is decimated lol
Yeah.
The sky is not falling. But that’s oftentimes an unpopular take. The old model of cool under pressure just doesn’t generate the same volume of upvotes.
It sucks, but injuries really are part of the game. The Jay’s’ll get through this. Trust me. This is one Yankee fan who hasn’t discounted Toron-…um, whatever they are right now.
@jh8913 what if Gerrit Cole got hurt? … thats 1 injury and someone that doesnt even play everyday. Do you expect the yankees to be the team to beat?
Cole or Ryu getting hurt dramatically changes things. Yates doesn’t. Springer really doesn’t move the needle on a team that already had 4 starting outfielders, unless he misses the whole year.
I stated on another post a few days ago, I wouldn’t extend Atkins more then another year. The Yates deal is a big blow to Atkins “impression” to his superiors for an extension. If he drafted and evaluated well, this will be the year to find out if that extension is even remotely possible. Firing the scout on Boichette being drafted, has to hurt in chances of extension to some degree. It seems he took it personally and his judgement can be in question. 2 years with Atkins and see if he can send the Blue Jays deep into the playoffs. If he doesn’t, cut ties and look for a GM with a resumè that can maximize that team and send them deeper into then playoffs and possibly the World Series. They have the offense, but pitching.. TBD.
It doesn’t take a good scout to recognize Bo Bichette, or any of the other kids with famous dads. Yes they can debate just how highly to draft a guy, but that’s not a great use of scouting skills in most cases. A scout should be measured by their under the radar picks, the 5th round or 10th round picks who they see something in nobody else noticed.
This years Jay’s kinda remind me of 2015. A lot of offense and very little pitching. It also makes me hopeful that if the offense is firing like the 2015 team was the front office will make some moves to acquire some pitching at the trade deadline.
I dont understand the hate on Atkins. The way the Jay’s operate is the GM brings his ideas the the president (shapiro) who then runs it by ownership to getthe ok. So any free agent signing wasn’t solely his decision, but was a group effort. Not resigning him wouldn’t really make any difference because in the end it’s upto Roger’s to decide who the team actually signs.
The hate comes from uninformed and uneducated fans.
This front office has built a playoff contending team in 3 seasons, has built and maintained a top 10 farm system and has the payroll flexibility for years to come.
The informed fans know the Jays would be THE team to beat if the front office did more than boost the farm. Neglecting the full process the last 5 years makes those clapping for Atkins and company uninformed and blatantly ignorant. Average GMs are supposed to build farm systems when they aren’t contending.
Even up to a few days ago, I had been saying that I thought the Padres should have tried harder to sign Yates instead of Melancon. Looks like Preller may have known what he was doing all along. The Keone Kela signing is looking pretty brilliant as well.
ruh roh
Not a huge Blue Jay (or AL in general) follower, so pardon the scenario if I’m way off… but why not Pearson at closer when he’s ready? There has been talk about limiting his innings and he’s got lights out stuff… use ’21 to ramp his arm up and worry about stretching him out back to starter next Spring Training. Again, beg your pardon if I’m way off base or if this has been discussed by the FO/Manager already.
I think a lot of people have that question. The reasons the Jays aren’t likely to go that route is that they are very patient in terms of player development and prioritize it. Pearson has lost a lot of development time over his career so they want to get him back on track. I think they also don’t value the closer role as much. They have some good relievers, but they look for the leverage spots to use them rather than the ninth inning just because it’s the ninth inning. Last year, without minor leagues, they used starters in the pen and found leverage moments in the middle of games for them. There are a few candidates for that this year, but I doubt Pearson is considered for that role. Later in the season maybe but not early. The pitcher they may do what you suggest with is Julian Merryweather. They still like him as a starter, but it’s hard to imagine him doing much in that role this year.
Why throw an unproven arm like Pearson into the 9th inning when you’ve got Dolis and Romano? The job of the closer isn’t just to make people ogle the radar gun.
If you’re going to reduce his innings, I think Pearson would be much better utilized as an opener or a bulk pitcher throwing 2-4 innings.
Who fills the closer roll?
Will they actually do it well? Quality closets are few and far between.
Springer should be fine, but core injuries are worrisome as they tend to linger.
*Closers
i think they have enough for the outfield they will be fine and should let Springer heal up and be 100%. I think it was judge or stanton that had similar and came back too early and was out again for an extended period.
I agree closers are hard to find but with all the power pitchers out there you can take a chance on a not so good starter. It works out more times than not.
Sorry to hear Yates. Best of luck and come back stronger.
Least they still have Chubbs
Toronto should be on the phone with LA to see what they want for Jimmy Nelson.
I bet he’d make a great 2-3 inning reliever.
As a dodger fan, I’d rather Friedman send him Scott Alexander.
Teams do not win or lose trades. You make trades to solve problems. A trade is only judged on the day it is made. If an MVP becomes an also-ran, or an also-ran becomes an MVP is not a decider in a Win/Lose of a trade.
What ever a player does or does not do with a new team is inconsequential for that may not have happened in the prior situation.. It’s called fate. .
So TO can trade Biggio to the RS in exchange for Ottavino, because TO needs a closer today. And it won’t be a bad trade, even if Biggio becomes an AS?
It’s Bagwell for Anderson.
It’s Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe.
By the transitive property, it’s Bagwell for Varitek and Lowe. That’s a fair trade.
Couple of things. The Stroman trade wasn’t smart for Mets. It accomplished nothing for them to date. But disagree, the QO has bearing on trade. Kay is a fat body who won’t succeed and the kid was a nice get.
I don’t think Mets should have done Lindor trade.
Jays took risks with moves. Ray, Matz, Yates. Some will work and some may not but they don’t have depth to cover some of the bets they made but they were worthwhile risks on 1 year below market deals.
Kay is a fat body who won’t succeed and the kid was a nice get.
================================================================
He won’t succeed AND was a nice get?
My interpretation was that “the kid” is Simeon Wood-Richardson in this context. But, who knows…
SWR might not make it to the big leagues as a starter. Kay is a very good reliever and a terrible starter. The mets won that trade.
The Jays lost that trade, especially because of official news that teams were willing to pay more for Stroman than the mets did but Atkins didn’t even call them back. Sad.
Official news? The Twins wished the Jays called them back before finalizing the Mets deal. No package from the Twins was ever announced. Maybe you have the Twins GM on speed dial?
Toronto and Texas have lost closers. The Yankees one, and maybe two, set-up men. Is anyone going to call Shane Greene?
Padres dodged a bullet by not resigning Yates.
Grade 2……. Opening day…… Springer?
No way Jose
Nobody saying a word about Castro. Dude has a serious arm. One of the best pickups Toronto made. He deserves to make the team. If he limits walks like he did preseason, watch out.
Yates is gone for the year and he was only on a one year deal anyway, so its a toss up whether he’d resign for 2022. Jays didn’t appear to have an interest in resigning Giles after his return from surgery. So they enter the season without what would be considered a proven closer.
Jays have a long history of a holier then thou attitude towards players, (screw up and your history) something most other teams don’t exhibit.
Here’s a suggestion Roberto Osuna, he broke in with the Jays and was a great closer for them while he was here. They dealt him to the Astro’s for Giles after he got involved in a Domestic Violence incident.
He was charged but never convicted in court, MLB held a flame to his feet, accept a suspension if you ever want to pitch again so he took the suspension most of which he had already served .
All this said there have been no further incidents, he’s served the penalty and at the end of 2020 season where he had limited chances the Astro’s cut him lose. I have looked all though the Free Agent tracker and he appears there after becoming a F/A but there is no mention that he has signed with anyone.
Osuna in six seasons had 181 save opportunities and 155 saves with an overall ERA of ..274.
Unless he’s medically unfit, maybe the Jays should give him a look. He’ll likely come cheap since Astro’s are on the hook for his 10mil 2021 salary, and Jays would only e required to pay the minimum..