Major League Baseball has issued a memo informing all 30 clubs that it will seek to crack down on pitchers doctoring the baseball through the use of foreign substances, as first reported by Joel Sherman of the New York Post. One of the league’s tactics, per Sherman, will be to use Statcast data to gauge spin-rate increases for pitchers suspected of doctoring the ball.
ESPN’s Jeff Passan (Twitter thread) and ESPN’s Jesse Rogers provide further detail, reporting that the league will have compliance officers monitor dugouts, clubhouses, tunnels, bullpens and batting cages in an effort to reduce the use of foreign substances. Those officers will also pull random samples of baseballs to be analyzed in a third-party lab. Balls suspected of being doctored by a pitcher will be tested against that pitcher’s spin-rate data from Statcast.
MLB’s memo indicates that pitchers are subject to discipline from the Commissioner’s Office whether evidence is discovered during the course of a game or after the completion of a game. It’s unclear at this time just what type of penalties will be levied against pitchers who are found to be utilizing foreign substances. It’s also not clear if there will be any warnings issued or if the league will jump straight into discipline for first-time offenders. The league’s memo also indicates that team personnel can be the subject of discipline if they are determined to be helping pitchers doctor the ball.
Rampant use of foreign substances, be it pine tar or otherwise, isn’t exactly a well-kept secret throughout the league. There are rare occasions of managers calling out an opposing pitcher when the presence of a substance is particularly egregious, but as Sherman notes, many are reluctant to do so, knowing the accusation could quickly be turned back on one of their own pitchers.
The league’s attempt to crack down on the use of foreign substances aligns with other efforts to increase the amount of action in the game and move away from an increasingly three-true-outcome-oriented (i.e. home runs, walks, strikeouts) style of play. Reducing the use of foreign substances could cut back on strikeouts and perhaps on walks — at least in theory.
At the same time, it’s not at all clear how the league plans to differentiate 2021 spin-rate data from “normal” spin-rate data. The very presence of these new policies indicates that the league considers use of foreign substance to be a widespread problem, after all.
However, the widespread nature of the issue likely also means that prior offenders are already benefiting from inflated spin rates on their pitches. If a pitcher who used pine tar, sunscreen or any other number of substances continues to do so in 2021, a notable change in his spin rate would be unlikely. That could still result in discipline if a ball taken out of play after being thrown by a pitcher is found to have significant traces of a foreign substance, but the spin-rate analysis may not be as telling as MLB hopes. At the very least, that practice could prevent new pitchers from adopting the use of foreign substances, but depending on how prevalent one believes the issue to be, that could represent a rather small number of players.
Depending on the extent and frequency of disciplinary measures enacted by MLB, it’d be a surprise if we didn’t see some appeals from pitchers around the league. It’ll surely be a talking point in the final week of Spring Training and early in the season, but only time will tell whether the new measures have any actual efficacy.
Dodgers gonna regret that Bauer contract real soon
My first thought too.
Only if anything is actually done to stop it. They can say they are going to do whatever they want, but until they actually take action, I’m not going to hold my breath.
All of a sudden the Dodgers and Yankees seem less formidable….
That’s a stretch..
Yeah this was actually my biggest worry when we signed him but I still don’t think MLB is doing much more than posturing at this point so I’m not too worried yet. It is going to be extremely difficult to enforce this rule and the fact that pretty much every player in the league uses it means that once they start, everyone is coming down. This is much easier to directly link to players than any sign stealing that may have occurred before now, meaning they can’t just do the same move as they did last scandal. With that in mind, they won’t want to start a huge scandal again that makes everyone look bad, especially because of the falling viewership of the sport (scandals turn those away) and the fact that they just came off of another huge scandal just a couple years ago (the trashstros).
Also the players don’t really want it gone either. There are people like Bryce Harper out there who have said it makes batters feel more comfortable in the box to know a ball is less likely to come flying at his head.
Absolutely. This is a shot fired at the union.
and yet HBP are way up. blogs.fangraphs.com/the-hit-by-pitch-continues-to-…
But more likely for a disgusting curveball or fastball. Batters have helmets for a reason…
citizen – HBP continues to rise because hitters today crowd the plate more than ever before. Hitters are very comfortable in the batters box for a variety of reasons.
What armor they wear at the plate, they should have to wear in the field. Doesn’t address DH but I’ve thought this since I watched Bonds hang over the dish.
Ducky let’s take it one step further; they wear it while they run the bases also.
Yeah and they should also bat with their fielding mits on. Lol
That was implied.
But, yeah.
@imbarrassing That makes no sense since the union already agreed to both the rule and the penalty. Its already in the CBA. MLB is just saying they are going to enforce something the MLBPA already agreed to years ago.
THIS.
Helmets, flaps on the ear, arm sleeves, elbow pads, ankles and shin guards, more equipment than some NFL players wear in a full contact sport. All so they can hang out over the plate and take that inner strike zone away from the pitchers. Want to wear it? Fine, but you need to leave it on once you get on base and not the constant TOs to take it all off and hand to the base coaches.
@Polish Hammer
Those NFL players also don’t have 100 mph coming at their soft spots. they don’t need to cover their joints most times
@put & polish i say if batters wanna wear riot gear at the plate let them, they wear because of mental reasons performance wise it doesn’t help there swing.
on a side not what i think would speed the game up if gm/pbo start valuing contact guys and guys that can play d. yes advanced metrics will build you a “winner” but an almost unwatchable winner. i might be in the minority but i wanna watch a game that the players dictate making them forgotten “web gems” than a brain trust of nerds dictating a game into 3 outcomes k, hr, and walk because there the safe play, imo no matter what mlb dose in rule changes until fo break this Philosophy they have we’re just going to have to get used to boring bb.
They wear padding for mental reasons? You mean they can be more comfortable and confident in the batters box because they are well protected?
That’s a performance enhancer. That’s cheating more so than the substance pitchers use for better spin and control. You made a case to ban arm guards on hitters. And you are right on one point; you take them off, hitters will need to adjust the way they approach an at bat. No hitter should get too comfortable against the best pitchers in the world.
Agreed, if you have to have it to bat , you need it to field !
This is the 2nd year in a row they have sent a memo to the teams about it. This time they laid out how they are going to measure it and that there will be penalties not only for players, but other team personnel.
MLB wants more action in baseball and pitchers breaking the rules by doctoring baseballs creates less action. MLB is serious about it. There will be suspensions.
BTW, the Astros took a system already in place at the Yankees in 2015, 2016, and 2017, one the Yankees were penalized for in 2017, and used it after Beltran brought it to the Astros. The only difference for the Astros was the use of a trashcan instead of hand signals to the batter. So please stop the high horse BS. They didn’t do anything that most other teams were not already doing. They just continued to do it after the September memo from Manfred telling teams to stop.
Do you actually think the Astros didn’t use buzzers?
A team as technically advanced as the Astros just used trashcans?
Seriously?
@Halo11Fan that ‘buzzer’ allegation was from a troll twitter account who claimed to be related to Beltran btw. But I hope the Angels keep all their players alive this season unlike a certain previous one.
And he didn’t want his shirt ripped off because of a tattoo? You kidding me?
You actually think the Astros stopped at trashcans?
I shouldn’t respond to Astro are not big cheating comments, but sometimes people’s takes are absurd.
@Halo11Fan
You’re just a salty Angels fan.
@Putpeteetc-
But…what possible reason would an Angels fan have to be “salty” over this?
Ya know?
That stuff didn’t sit well with *any* fan base. It was the first time I’ve ever experienced a team being hated more than the Yanks. That’s notable, bro.
You believe in buzzers, unicorns and the tooth fairy too? #1 when the buzzer thing was supposed to have happened in 2019, they didn’t have access to the video feed, so having buzzers would have been a moot point. If there is no video feed, you have nothing to buzz about. #2, the Astros were not the only team caught doing the same thing in 2017. They were one of 12 teams that were caught. 3 were penalized including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Some teams just aren’t capable of playing by the rules Koamalu
@ Pads Fans
Do you have the link that 12 teams were caught? I Googled it and all I got was “10-12 teams accused the Astros of cheating.”
@Hudson6 hey look out bro! He’s gonna tell you to Google it.
Then accuse you of being wcr.
Say it ain’t so Astro
@Ducky
He’s probably salty his FO( and before I go any farther I want to make clear that I am a Giants fan, and I’m not a fan of the Astros. I think they should’ve been given more than a slap on the wrist) can’t get a good pitcher. Also, he’s probably salty the Astros always win the division, with the occasional Oakland success
I don’t know about all that.
What I do know is that Halo11 has a lot of good baseball insight & isn’t a HOTTAKE machine at all.
(shrugs one shoulder)
@Ducky – Truth, my friend. I’ve had many exchanges with @Halo11, oftentimes disagreeing with him in the past. However, we have simply disagreed from our positions, with an information exchange back and forth, usually with some positive acknowledgment one way or the other in the process. He’s on every conversation board and has generally good baseball knowledge and insight. One might classify him as a true fan of the game –
He’s been very objective about his team and their shortcomings from what I’ve read and I find he’s typically a strong contributor, conversationally.
That’s pretty much my exact same experience, Clip. He’s a classy poster with some great baseball stories. If I ever ran into him at a pub I’d certainly stand him to an ale or three or four.
It’s almost like every other Altuve walkoff, they tore off his jersey. If they were using a buzzer that season, you’d think you woulda saw it by now with the amount of times they did that.
One last thing. There is no falling viewership. There is a change in HOW people are viewing games. Just like people are moving to HULU and NETFLIX instead of broadcast TV, people are moving to streaming services for their baseball games. More people than ever are watching via MLB.tv and MLB Extra Innings and on streaming services like YouTubeTV, SlingTV, fuboTV, AT&TTV, and others. Sources of viewership that are not counted in Nielsen TV ratings.
According to MLB in presentations to advertisers, in 2019 more people watched a live baseball game than in any year EVER and baseball revenue went up 12%.
Age demographic is way up. That is a concern. The high offense clearly isn’t resonating with the younger crowd. That is enough to show falling viewership if you can’t target 18-35 and look to the future with security.
The demographic of baseball viewers overall has gone down 1.3 years since 2014. The demographic of baseball season ticket holders and those who watch on broadcast TV have skewed older. Ask to advertise with MLB, especially on their streaming platforms. They will send you a presentation that spells it all out.
You mean the misleading presentations they make to corporate sponsors to convince them to hand over millions of dollars on a yearly basis? No thanks. They are targeting the same demo baseball still holds onto and that demo are buyers. Thankfully their fanbase is a buyer base. Baseballs platform presence is lagging behind.
No. The presentations are filled with data, facts, and given to corporate sponsors that are much more informed than you are. You don’t lay out millions for advertising campaigns unless you have data to show who your target market is and what your ROI will be. Get real. The people spending millions on advertising are not schmucks. MLB runs sophisticated data capture programs and know exactly what they have to offer and the buyers know what they are getting into. That you don’t understand how marketing works today says volumes. You probably don’t even know how much the cookies from this site and its advertisers is gathering about you and what permissions you have granted them. That is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of data that MLB captures.
Not many people under the age of 30 can watch and focus on a slow moving baseball game for 3 hours, another reason for pace of play changes.
I personally buy the mlb package, watch my Mets after the game, bypassing commercial breaks. I also watch almost every game’s 3 minute recap. How many people are going to sit in a chair indoors and watch a 3 hour game post-Covid? Not this guy.
One of the things I’ve always loved about baseball (as opposed to football & boxing) is the fact that I can do other things while I’m listening to or watching a game.
Streaming has upped the ante on that. At most, I’ll “just” watch an entire game from start to finish a couple dozen times a year. At the same time, I never actually miss a game.
Man.
I’d be completely insane if I’d gone through what a lot of people did last year. I’m in construction so essential industry. & hunting & fishing were never closed down because sportsman were social distancing before it was cool, man.
The very last thing I’d want to do would be watch anything on a television if I’d been locked down, too.
Yeah, Bauer and Cole are about to be merely above average rather than other wordly. Good news is maybe fewer Angel pitchers will require elbow surgery :|
Facts
Can they use domestic substances?
perhaps but it will be interesting if the new dead ball kills any advantage this gives hitters.
Yeah, wait until batters start getting hit in the face. Probably will ease off a bit and allow the grippy stuff that currently prevents that……. just sayin’.
Yeah, because there aren’t any other pitchers using substances………
So are the Yankees cole was average at best before he started using his “special stuff”
“Hey Bubba, it’s Gerrit Cole,” the text reads. “I was wondering if you could help me out with this sticky situation [winky face emoji]. We don’t see you until May, but we have some road games in April that are in cold weather places. The stuff I had last year seizes up when it gets cold …”
During the interview, Harkins claims, he identified Cole, Justin Verlander, Edwin Jackson, Max Scherzer, Felix Hernandez, Corey Kluber, Joba Chamberlain, Adam Wainwright and Tyler Chatwood among the pitchers who previously asked for his specific blend of pine tar and rosin, which became popular throughout the league after he made it for former closer Troy Percival more than 20 years ago.
Oh no, Tyler Chatwood will be a shadow of his former self. Blue Jays are doomed.
*All teams paying top dollar for a high spin rate pitcher will regret those contracts…
Dodgers are still gonna kick everyone’s a** ^_^
Good. It’s way past time for foreign substances to be regulated. Pitchers are basically advertising they are doing it. Put the umpires and camera technology to use.
But but Bauer accused the Astros of cheating himself and no one who cheats would ever accuse someone else of cheating! Right, Fiers? When are you returning that ring and your World Series money?
Astros cheating is very different than this situation. You all cheated to a championship and I won’t engage your joke of a defense any further. I can’t stand Bauer, but the two situations aren’t remotely comparable.
Cheating is cheating. A sin is a sin.
“ and no one who cheats would ever accuse someone else of cheating!”
When 75% of the league uses the same substances, you pick and choose who you hate over it? Interesting
All Bauer haters are just that – haters. He’s been telling all of us everyone cheats and y’all hate him for it. The Cole contract is WAY worse than Bauer’s and he’s WAY more average than Bauer without the pine tar and the stats prove it !
I mean, there are legit reasons to dislike Bauer. I can stand him but I wouldn’t call him a cheater.
75% of the league supposedly doctors the ball. Think the whole league is in for a shock if they can actually police this
But they won’t so it’s a moot point. Once hitters start getting in the helmet because they’re used to crowding the plate and pitchers don’t have their normal pin point control, this will be forgotten. Just being honest
What about the “steroid” era? 20,25,33.3,50,66.7, or 75%? No matter what % of the guys used steroids, it was widespread. Pitchers & hitters used it.
It was used by healthy players & by those who tried to speed up recovery. If you don’t want it in the game, get your head out of the sand. They say they want more action in the game. If enforcing the rule & getting rid of the use of foreign substances helps them achieve their goal: (NIKE) “Just Do It”.
Manfred is a complete moron.
you’re a dogbone though
What about trashcans? Any word on “attempting” to reduce the use of those?
Yeah! I’m with Arthur Morgan on this one! The trashcans! I love you, Arthur Morgan! #original #trash can
Arthur Morgan is a better man than you will ever be.
Coming from the kid…
Search the name Arthur Morgan into your web browser.
M A N G O E S
Actually, yea, they did do something about the trash cans.
Why? Are you still living in 2017? No trashcans since then.
That you know of………
Yeah, @PadresFan, actually, you’re right. @ArthurMorgan, Altuve proved during his homerun off Chapman he was wearing a buzzer when he rounded third base………..
why is it ok for mlb to doctor baseballs?
This will hurt baseball…again
no it won’t
Hitters even prefer the foreign substances so yeah it will
The sharp increase in strikeouts the last few years tends to say otherwise.
Yes, back in the day a bit of tack on the fingers was considered to help control. But now you have guys like Bauer significantly increasing their spin rate and movement thanks to chemistry. Hitters are at a huge disadvantage.
Hitters prefer to use foreign substances while hitting… not facing pitchers who throw high velocity and doctor the ball. They don’t like that and it makes the game boring when no one makes contact
More spin rate with less control is not what the hitters want and that is what’s happening. If these pitchers could control thier doctored balls, I don’t think this would be an issue today.
A Home Run Derby every game will get boring
Baseball viewership already reflects that. Otherwise it would be up. Way up.
the new dead ball may prevent any derby
Hitters preferring a foreign substance is THE dumbest thing I’ve ever read on this site !!!!!!
“I prefer a guy who throws 90 to be able to throw 93 w termendous spin. I may only hit 230 on the season but atleast I get beamed less”
Dumbest belief ever. Indoctrinated into your mind by beat writers who work for ur team
Foreign substances allow pitchers to have better control. Just because you wouldn’t like it doesn’t mean all hitters feel the same way you do idiot
Bauer and Cole BTFO
I’m happy they’re taking this direction as it will lead to what they want, more offense, and it won’t be affecting a major facet of how the game is played (ie like the extra inning rule), but I feel this is something they should’ve been doing all along.
@ mlb1225;
Until MLB changes the rules to call a K after X amount of foul balls, this will continue.
Batters are being coached to hit endless foul balls and run the pitch count up.
In turn pitchers have to get a batter out. The primary way is get a missed bat after 2 strikes. To accomplish that the pitchers have to throw harder and harder, and put more and more spin on the ball. So now they’re cheating, as well as ruining their arms as endless TJ surgery’s are needed; in addition to the games lasting so long and the low parentage of balls being put in play (which is what spectators want to see).
If you want more offense and more balls being put in play – which leads to better defense as well as more action and quicker games – then MLB must limit the foul balls. It’s been out of control for well over 10 years now, maybe 20…….yet few ever talk about it (once in a while I’ll see someone write up how many foul balls there were in the game vs. how many pitches were made, and it’s crazy). ML hitters are exceptional They can put more balls in play if they have to.
P.S. And what makes you think if the put the ball over the plate with less spin, that the batters will hit it fair?
Hitters rarely flinch on curves and sliders anymore. Want to take a guess as to why? It’s the same reason they are allowed to crowd the plate. That, and umpires will warn pitchers on both teams. The foul ball issue would be solved by doing one thing. MLB1225 knows what that is.
Extra offense is not solving baseballs problems. They are only compounding the problem.
“to call a K after X amount of foul balls”
Bro…like softball, @samuel? Gross.
For a dude who trumpets his “baseball knowledge” (dubious at best) batters are not being coached to “hit endless foul balls”.
There is a lot of debate as to whether that’s actually a skill. It is certainly not something being “taught”.
Didn’t actually play ball did you, @Samual. Or you would understand what a silly take that is.
“To accomplish this the pitchers have to throw harder & harder”. Again, childish notion, sir. Pitchers do all kinds of things with two strikes: breaking pitches away, in the dirt, change ups…there is a wide variety of approaches. (Obligatory: “do you watch baseball, sir?”) But…just keep on increasing velocity? Nah. Not as a general rule, bubby. Chapman can do that. Not many other guys though.
Look.
Keep the softball rules out of baseball.
We did that in the beginning. No reason to rehash that nonsense.
Spin rate (high & low, btw) has a lot to do with quality of contact. You need to read some Fangraphs, bro.
But – hey – my Bitcoin is doing great.
So there’s that.
I hope you find this information helpful. I tried to provide a solution for you.
You’re welcome.
Oh my……. speechless! Calling a strikeout after so many foul…. what?! It’s like the whole version of baseball. The problem with trying to appeal to the younger generation – you can’t. They’re not interested as a whole. You have to change too much of the game. If the game dies being the game then so be it. If we have to change the entire game to appeal to the current generation, then it’s a self-defeating proposition. I don’t really care tbh, if the younger generation is constantly amused or not. Minor changes, yes, change the game s as we know it, NO!
Yeah, I don’t get all this pearl clutching, hand wringing, suffering from a case of the vapours about “the future of the game”.
Less than a hundred years ago, Polo was more popular than football & hoops. *Combined*. There’s even a Polo HOF.
If baseball becomes a niche or exhibition sport…who cares? Ya know?
Dude seems to want some type of Arena Baseball – or whatever. I don’t want that. At all. Blech.
“Batters are being coached to hit endless foul balls and run the pitch count up.”
Yes but… That’s not really what’s happening That’s not a new concept on two strike counts and spoiling close pitches. Players are also coached to get on base and score runs. Which happens to be how to win the game.
Also… This is just not true and a fundamental misunderstanding of the game. It’s nonsense. You’re implying there are hitters going up to the plate actively trying to not hit the ball fair. Let’s not even get into the reckless nature of that if it was true considering fans. That aside, what inning would this groundbreaking strategy take place? It wouldn’t. Your comment isn’t relevant to the discussion or even factual. Sorry dude but you’re very wrong.
And hitters that are whiffing and striking out at an alarming rate can also somehow make enough contact bat will to foul the ball off numerous times to force a high pitch count?
Good! Insane that pitchers could blatantly get away with doctoring the ball.
if players are caught, fine them severely. no slaps on the wrist of those making millions.
Players union won’t allow that
The rule against doctoring baseballs is already in the CBA. They can and they will “allow it”.
They won’t allow them to be “severely” fined just like they stopped the league from severely punishing the Astros.
Time for a primer in Labor Laws. MLB and the MLBPA operate under a collective bargaining agreement or CBA. Changes to working rules and conditions under a CBA are ruled by federal labor laws. There can be no rule CHANGES or penalties for workers to without the approval of both sides in writing and before the season begins. That would constitute changes in working conditions. If there is no agreement between both parties to the CBA on a new rule and the penalties, no penalties can be imposed on players.
The penalties for doctoring a baseball are already in the CBA. The union will do nothing about this change in enforcement because they already agreed to both the rule and the penalties which include both fines an suspensions.
There was no rule in the CBA against what the Astros did. In fact it had been used by at least 12 teams we know of in that 2017 season and the Yankees and Red Sox were fined for it and a memo sent out by Manfred in September of 2017 that spelled out that it was against the rules for the teams and what he could do in terms of penalties for the TEAMS, but since nothing was in the CBA, he could do nothing to penalize players.
The Astros TEAM got the maximum penalty that the commissioner is allowed to impose on a team. The players could not be penalized, so they weren’t.
Thanks for explaining that. Probably wasted your time as no posters will care because it goes against their dogma
And pitchers can only get the maximum penalty allowed. That’s all I’m saying. I was rejecting the notion of “severely” which I took to imply an increase in punishment, which, I think we agree, the union would not allow.
They should go to prison for their rest of their lives.
I just love it when MLB chooses to spend time on things that don’t matter.
to be fair theyre actually doing a lot between this, changing the ball, and the experimental rule changes in the Minors.
Tell that to the hitters. Strike outs have gone up tremendously over the past few years as doctoring of baseballs to increase spin rate has become a science. Its already against the rules. MLB is just enforcing the rules.
Strikeouts are up because of hitting philosophies, upper cutting, trying to hit homers with 2 strikes instead of putting the ball in play, accepting 150 strike outs as long as a player hits 20 homers in useless situations.
Yeah, this is dumb. Bring back spitballs! League-average ERA under 1.00 or bust!
Here’s the thing folks, strikeouts are up for a bunch or different reasons. Hitting philosophy, pitching philosophy, defensive philosophy, training philosophy. The whole damn game has devolved into strikeouts versus home runs and the idea that finally policing this issue is going to make a significant dent is preposterous.
Because pitchers have always done this to the point that some teams have institutionalized it. It’s been done in every era in the history of the sport, whether that era happened to be pitcher or hitter dominated. And while I don’t doubt that it’s been effective for certain pitchers, the idea that its overall impact on the game in any era is anything more than marginal is ludicrous.
And, by the way, I don’t mind them policing it. It’s what they always should’ve been doing. I mind them making a story out of it. Because if MLB has proven anything in recent years they’ve proven that they have great skill at trying to look like they’re doing something to address the game’s problems while actually doing next to nothing. Rob Manfred just loves to distract us while he puts bandaids on bullet wounds and I doubt very much that this is anything more than that.
Might as well drop Trevor Bauer from your fantasy team now lol
I was smart enough not to pick him. The roller coaster he is says this is a down year
Very overrated player.
I absolutely agree. I’ve always thought that about Bauer, and now that he makes it clear he used substances the one season he’s been good, I have no doubt in my mind
Cosmos, the last 3 years indicate he’s a top 15 pitcher in the game statistically. Last I checked that would qualify as TOR pitcher
@Lurking
Woah hold up! The last 3 years? He had a 4.48 era in 2019. Sure, 2018 was a good year, as was 2020* for Bauer. But I see 2019 and I walk away. Kershaw, DeGrom, even Verlander haven’t had a year like that, just to name a few, and yes I know, it isn’t fair to include DeGrom and Kershaw as comparisons
“
I was smart enough not to pick him. The roller coaster he is says this is a down year”
Hahahaha. Yeah because the dodgers are known for having players come to their team and instantly decline while in their prime. Okay buddy. Keep dreaming
@Lurking
Are you a Dodgers fan or something? Let me state his ERAs for every year of his career, from year 1:
6.06, 5.29, 4.18, 4.55, 4.26, 4.19, 2.21, 4.48, 1.73.
TWO years he had a sub-4.18 ERA. TWO. Does that sound like a guy who is good to you? And, I know you won’t like this, but one of the two years was in a 60-game season that will always have an asterisk next to it. I assume you think the Dodgers won a REAL World Series?
breaking news: authority attempts to control illegal activity that falls under it’s jurisdiction. love that this even has to be news.
I mean, mlb actually enforcing anything is news, considering Bregman, Altuve, Springer and soon to be Correa all got the terrible punishment of 100M+ contracts
Let’s see if they actually enforce it.
Bauer is so screwed. He actually said in several posts how much doctoring the ball increases his spin rate.
Like greenies, it wasn’t a secret. No one cared. Visiting clubhouses supplied such things.
It will likely affect them, but I didn’t consider greenies immoral and I don’t consider pine tar immoral.
Its not immoral. But is is going to ruin Bauer’s season. He will go back to being mediocre. Back to being a 4+ ERA starter. $40 million for 4+ ERA. Makes me smile.
Bauer will go back to his average numbers simply because he won’t just be facing sub-.500 teams 11 times.
I agree Koamalu
Ryan/PitcherWins/harambe/tatsumaki. What should we call you today?
Why you mad? I said I agree with you. Don’t you like it when people agree with you?
Ryan/PitcherWins/Harambe/Tasumaki Not mad at all. Asking a serious question. In your case, projection is a real thing. You accuse others of doing what you are obviously doing.
Well if that’s not the pot calling the kettle black…
PS: Are you ever going to drop a link from someone credible saying the charges against Luis Campusano were reduced to a misdemeanor? Or are you just going to tell us to Google it like you always do across your many backup accounts?
If anyone has more than one account you seriously need to re evaluate your life
It’s that serious
@Pads Fans/Koamalu Lol got real quiet once I brought up your lie about Luis Campusano’s charges getting reduced to a misdemeanor eh?
Dude who cares good job. Get a life. Stop using lol it’s what chicks and minors say
And finally @Pads Fans, look at what Lance McCullers Jr. just got. So much for your assertion that “More teams bidding means a higher price paid than 1 team bidding. Every time. 100%. Without question.”
Glad to see this, the spin rates are getting ridiculously high because of foreign substances (talking about a 200% increase on a dude’s curveball year-to-year, it’s insane)
The league definitely wants more offense… but I hate this so much. Pitchers love the grip and spin rate it gives them, and the batters don’t hate it either. Let’s just see how MLB tries to implement this on some of their best players. At least we finally have an answer to the question of whether or not you can really use substance.
Like greenies, most everyone did this. It was out in the open. No one really complained. I don’t consider this cheating. One of the requirements of cheating is gaining an unfair advantage.
That said, there are some teams… Houston for example. who made this part of their pitching prep, and I think they are going to suffer.
I’m curious how this will effect pitching and pitching staffs next year.
Bauer is going to suffer. Cole is going to suffer. Fans are going to love the increase in action in the game as more and more hitters put the ball in play.
The only two pitchers to use substances, right? Delusional Pads fan………
They are most vocal and visible adherents of the spin rate at all costs philosophy of pitching. They will certainly not be the only ones that suffer. This will bring down spin rates which will increase balls in play which will mean more runs scored. They will just be the philosophy’s two high priests/high profile players coming down to earth.
Darvish.
You do realize Lamet’s amazing rise to success can very likely be attributed to the same thing you’re dancing around is now going to be banned..?
You think he magically improved last year with nothing to cause it? How dumb are you?
You are insane to think this only affects 2 teams. But then again we’ve seen enough of your other takes to know there’s no reason to take your opinion seriously
Its pretty obvious that pitchers who often get blisters are using the stuff
how much had Aaron Sanchez have to have been using?
Nolan Ryan got blisters all the time. I don’t think the two are connected.
Not obvious at all.
Or they throw a spike curveball moron
Any pitcher who gets caught doctoring the baseball will get a good hard spanking….except Bauer, who admits he likes that sort of thing.
So MLB can change the stiches, et al, to get the ball to the point where your grandmother can hit it 450 feet, but pitchers can’t “cheat”…..ya, OK.
If no one considers it cheating, is it cheating?
If everyone agrees to get 400 for landing on Go in Monopoly, is that cheating?
This isn’t steroids that was done in the dark, this is Cole asking the Angels clubhouse attendant to provide him stickem. This is Bauer saying that he uses it. And no player called them cheaters.
“Any pitcher who gets caught doctoring the baseball will get a good hard spanking….except Bauer, who admits he likes that sort of thing.”
Bauer likes being spanked?
He’s the Goldust of baseball.
Only if he can throw the paddle into the CF stands.
So I’m guessing this is because of the Harkins’s lawsuit?
If so then my guess is this is more of a “nudge nudge wink wink” rather than anything else. Truthfully I doubt MLB cares about cheating just the perception of it. People remember the outrage of the steroids scandal but the truth was everyone knew. There was a St. Louis writer who was basically told to shut up when he showed evidence of McGwire cheating during the summer where McGwire and Sosa were racing to 62 home runs. On top of that you had Canseco and about a half dozen other former players happily admitting steroid use.
Point being, maybe one or 2 pitchers get tossed this year for using foreign substances. The ones that are blatantly obvious like Michael Pineda was.
“People remember the outrage of the steroids scandal but the truth was everyone knew. ”
WRONG. Players lied about PEDs in front of congress.. Players said they didn’t see people taking them.
Cole calls an Angel clubhouse attendant. Bauer posts it on social media. You’re way off base. You’re revisionist.
Everyone knew. At least eventually. By the time players lied in front of congress anyone of intelligence knew. Most knew well before that.
Canseco said 80% of baseball was using steroids. Pedro Martinez estimated between 50% and 60% were using steroids.
I’m talking about before the congressional hearings. Yeah that may have lit the flame but any half intelligent baseball fan knew there were enough players accused of PED use or simply could figure out from the sudden increase of home runs that steroids and other substances were being used. Players kept talking about it being the worst kept secret.
So revisionist, no. Just a realist.
People testified in front of congress that they had no first hand knowledge of players taking steroids.
Everyone had first hand knowledge of people taking greenies. Everyone had first hand knowledge of pitchers using pine tar.
Apples and Oranges.
Everyone considered PEDs cheating (gaining an unfair advantage) no one considered pine tar or greenies cheating.
Dirty little secret of baseball, cheating is part of the game and has been since the beginning and there’s always a great excuse. I doubt the players who took steroids thought of it as cheating.
The only time MLB pretends they notice is when they think the negative press will actually cost them money. The difference with the steroid scandal is an outside body forced the issue.
You really think PED in 2000s were the first form of PEDs? They’ve been around for 50 years. Everyone knew. It was fake outrage to keep a public image
This is a joke. Hey Manfred, how’s that Mickey Callaway investigation going? What a crock.
Lloyd. People have rights.
Nothing more than a PR stunt by MLB saying they are cracking down on this, nothing is going to change which is a good thing.
Dunk.
Because batters and pitchers know about this, and don’t care, maybe it is a PR move.
I remember when Frank Robinson got Donnally kicked out of a game for having pine tar on his glove, Scioscia was quoted saying everyone uses it. Would you rather a pitch slip out of a pitchers hand?
This is not a secret. No one cared. Not pitchers, not hitters.
manfraud does now after all these years.
It’s a way to minimize the annoyance of blowhard talking heads whining about sanctity.
2nd year in a row MLB has made a point of sending out a memo about this. The rule is already in the CBA, so nothing the union or the players can say about MLB enforcing it. Now MLB has said HOW they are going to enforce it. Enforcing it increases balls in play which MLB says they want. Players will be fined and suspended this season.
But how will mlb choose the players to be examined? If it is true that a high number of mlb players use substances, and if they do not stop as a result of this notification, where does mlb start? If the first player they pick is Cole, and he gets suspended, is that Yankee bashing?
Hey genius. If they keep sending a memo but you hear of no punishment it’s almost like they don’t want to open that can of worms. Nothing better than having 75% of the league suspended!
Im all for allowing them to get away with whatever they want to use. Players cork bats
They need to raise the mound again. Not move it back.
I hope so. We’re probably going to see some recent breakout guys over the past couple of years fall back down to earth. Some of the movement these guys get is just too nasty to hit, and a bit of a correction is needed. Hopefully this will lead to a reduction in K’s and more balls in play.
ok let’s slow play even more
Less spin rate will increase balls in play and speed up the game.
11 runs in an inning will?
Lame flex against the players union. Ridiculous.
The rule is already in the CBA. The union has already agree to the rule and the penalties.
MLB gonna bring spitballers back during the Covid era. Good job MLB!
Hey now!
All Trevor Bauer’s fault
Putting something on a ball is one thing…getting some tack on your fingers is another. People who have never pitched at a high level should try throwing an MLB ball to a batter when there’s adverse conditions….you lose control and that puts peoples lives in danger…or at the very least their immediate career.
That is what a rosin bag is for.
Doesn’t work.
Lord99, he obviously hasn’t played above tee ball.
I’ve always wondered why pitchers don’t wear a glove on their throwing hand to improve grip similar to batting gloves. Would help with blisters too, I’m sure someone could design something usable.
Don’t suggest that idea to Chaim Bloom. Every Red Sox pitcher will be required to wear a boxing glove on the mound.
Pitchers can’t. It is against the rules to wear a glove on the throwing hand. They are also not allowed to wear a wrist band on their throwing hand, and judging by the way MLB treats it’s pitchers they are also not allowed a Pension, a career or sustain success..
They need to allow the spitball again as part of the next agreement.
Bauer has $100 milly reasons to go ahead and suck again and follow the rules
If they’re using spin rate, they pretty much HAVE to go by whatever data they already have on guys… Meaning those who use the stuff have to continue using it or come up with a creative explanation as to why their spin rate dropped so quickly…
Using a stat like that to enforce a rule is pretty much a “hoping to control it ten years from now” measure at best.
MLB doing something that isn’t some stupid arbitrary rule change that fundamentally alters the sport? Did Manfred have a stroke?
Need to get rid of the runner on 2nd in extra innings thing yesterday
With the abysmal contact rates, the most foreign substance finding its way on to baseballs seems to be bats.
One commenter here disagrees. They believe hitters are actively trying to not get hits. Revolutionary if true(it’s not).
A real Bauer outage coming soon!
pitchers will start throwing knucklers killing offense. manfraud will cry foul again!
Stop messing with the game.
“STOP MESSING WITH THE GAME”
Succinct, cogent, perfectly complete.
Totally disagree with that
Everything is on hitters advance.
I’m good with this if they start cracking down on hitters with stupid amounts of tar on their bat handles. Carlos Santana and Cesar Hernandez come to mind. I also agree with the commenters who say any armor worn to the plate needs to be worn on the bases.
how will mlb interpret their stat cast baseline? pitchers have been doing this forever. if you have less spin rate does that mean you’re clean?
Mike Fiers is punching the air right now
An entire team can cheat to get a WS win…but don’t put spit or Vaseline on that baseball
So the 95% of pitchers who use some substance to grip the ball are going to be disciplined? What about the pitchers whose seasons start in colder weather climates? Will pitchers who have great spin rates from prior seasons therefore be grandfathered in since the days already shows they have higher spin rates? What about young pitchers who develop better grips and release points? Are they just assumed to be using an illegal substance?
Once again, Manfred focused on the “right” things.
Get ready for a whole bunch of HBP’s.
That’ll solve everything, uh?
McNeil literally has more hbp than hits this spring. Of course he had a shoulder pad on his elbow…
It’s either a rule or it isn’t. If it’s a rule – then inforce it ! 5 hour games aren’t good for the league but that’s what you’ll get when u enforce this rule. It’ll also be complete chaos bc u r right – 95% of pitcher CHEAT according to current rules.
I know if I’m a below average power hitter w 40+ homer potential I’ll 100% take a few more pitches off the back side and make millions more than not get beamed. Terrible argument Bucky my friend. Inforce the rules or change em. But MLB is just like USA- all talk. All these dudes will cheat and they’ll do nothing about it. Just like federal government officials do
Now, I’m just curious. Is baseball your favorite sport? If so, why are 5-hour games bad?
So change it then.
Batters endorse it. So it’s not really creating some type of advantage.
It’s blowback from 100 years ago (1920) & the Ray Chapman death.
I struggle to lable this as “cheating”. It’s fine if you want to. Ya know? We don’t have to agree on everything, man. I see an outdated rule that needs to be modernized.
Wait until Trout or someone of equal status has his face broken. It will not be a good thing, because literally no players support this effort.
Ironically, they all supported disciplining the Astors heavily for cheating to a championship, buuuuuut, absolutely nothing came from that inquiry.
Now, some Astros fans are citing this cheating as a rebuttal to their demonstrably worse offenses.
#AstrosCan’tWin4Real
Yeah.
To me, the fact that hitters are trying to put the brakes on this says it all.
I really hope nothing like that needs to happen. Why can’t some common sense be used with this?
No clue. We are about safety of players. So are the players, obviously, which is why they want the pitcher to control the ball coming out of their hand at 90-100 mph with partial grips.
I abhor cheating, but this was openly supported several times as long as the pitcher wasn’t wearing an extra layer of it on the mound, ala Pineda.
Good for MLB!
Some nine figure contracts might stop looking so good.
Some pitching coaches might not be such “geniuses” any more.
So a pitcher bats, gets pine tar on his hands, then what? How about the CATCHER? Maybe pine tar should just be banned in general?
Unless it’s made in America
They should give every pitcher a pine tar rag. Less hitters will get drilled unintentionally.
So let me try to parse out the logic here. They are trying to change the game to be more exciting by creating more offense, mostly, so they decided to change it at the very core was the most effectual.
But, all while promoting that, they decided to deaden the ball, then create more walks (by their decision to vehemently pursue foreign substance users) due to HBP & lack of control, then combine that with pace-of-play initiatives at the lower levels as in-game experiments, and, finally, have equitable distribution of monies so teams get taxed and don’t want to spend in FA while the lower-tier teams don’t have to use their own money and also don’t want to spend.
Well, it’s working out great fellas, keep up the good work! Or, you could just leave the game alone because you keep screwing something up every time you mess with it (much like politicians).
The easy answer to catching guys who have been doctoring the ball for years is to be sure to test for substances on balls thrown by all pitchers in the top decile of spin rates.
Also, the argument that you’d rather let the pitcher doctor the ball to improve his grip, lest he bean the batter, is specious. If you can’t control the ball without that help, you won’t last that long in the big leagues and don’t deserve to.
Will they be going after other players too, or just pitchers? Anyone remember when the ball literally stuck to Molina’s chest protector?
Damn you guys are leaving like biograohys of your comments lmao. what substances are they talking about. Besides the regular ones we all know of which is around 6 types.
Is KY jelly one of them anyone can actually list the other ones guys like us may not know about
Please help lol
Damn you guys are leaving like biograohys of your comments lmao. what substances are they talking about. Besides the regular ones we all know of which is around 6 types.
Is KY jelly one of them anyone can actually list the other ones guys like us may not know about
Please help
I wonder what the umpires have to say about this? They are part of the problem aren’t they? I mean, they often look at the baseball if asked to or if it gets fouled off and they want to examine it before giving it back to the pitcher or tossing it. You are trying to tell me they do not see the substance, or feel it, on the ball at all? One would assume the use of pine tar would cause spots to be found on the ball where dirt is sticking to it… So where have the umpires been this whole time that the substance is being used rampantly? Are they going to now call attention to it during games finally?
I mean if anything this will separate good pitchers from average pitchers. One would presume that good pitchers need less of this, if any at all, to get the balls to move or break.. Then again without this substance maybe it causes more TJ injuries because the pitchers have to put more torque on the elbow for Splitters, Slurves, and sliders?