APRIL 5: The Mets have officially announced Lindor’s extension. Deesha Thosar of the New York Daily News provides the release here.
MARCH 31: The stalemate is over. The Mets have reportedly come to terms on a ten-year, $341MM contract extension with star shortstop Francisco Lindor, covering the 2022-31 seasons. Lindor will be paid a $21MM singing bonus, followed by flat $32MM salaries in each year of the deal. The contract calls for $5MM of the annual salaries to be deferred, paid annually from 2032-41, for a total of $50MM in deferrals. The deal also contains a 15-team no-trade clause without any opt-out provisions. Lindor is represented by SportsMeter.
The extension is a monumental development, both for the Mets and for the sport as a whole. New York acquired the 27-year-old Lindor, one of the sport’s brightest stars, in an offseason trade with the Indians. Now they’ll ensure he spends the bulk of his career in Queens.
Lindor was the eighth overall draft pick by Cleveland back in 2011. He immediately became one of the game’s top prospects and moved quickly through the minors for a high school draftee, reaching the big leagues by June 2015. Lindor burst onto the scene that year with a .313/.353/.482 slash line as the Indians’ everyday shortstop, earning a runner-up finish in American League Rookie of the Year voting.
That sensational debut set the stage for a run of four consecutive star-level seasons. Between 2016-19, Lindor hit .284/.346/.495 (118 wRC+) with 118 home runs and 81 stolen bases. That’s quality offensive production from any player, but it’s particularly remarkable coming from a shortstop widely regarded as one of the game’s premier defenders. Lindor’s two-way production earned him an All-Star berth and a top 15 finish in AL MVP voting in each of those seasons.
That production did drop off a bit during the abbreviated 2020 season. Lindor played in all sixty games for Cleveland but hit a career-worst .258/.335/.415 (102 wRC+). It seems that average showing is something of a small sample anomaly, though. Lindor kept his strikeout rate at its customary 15.4% range (well better than the league average of 23.4%) while drawing walks in a career-best 9.0% of his plate appearances. His power production took a slight step back, but Lindor’s 89.9 MPH average exit velocity remained solid.
Clearly, the Mets aren’t concerned about that slight offensive downturn. They parted with four well-regarded young players (infielders Amed Rosario and Andrés Giménez and prospects Isaiah Greene and Josh Wolf) to acquire him and starter Carlos Carrasco from the Indians in January. They’re following that up with one of the largest contracts in MLB history.
Working out an extension with Lindor has been the Mets’ hope since they acquired him, but it seemed just a few hours ago the star infielder was headed for the free agent market. Lindor had rather definitively stated he wouldn’t negotiate an extension during the regular season, leaving the parties with dwindling time to work out a deal before tomorrow’s season opener. The Mets originally offered a ten-year, $325MM pact, while Lindor came back with a twelve-year, $385MM counterproposal. With the clock ticking, both sides budged a bit from their original asks, although Lindor ultimately relented on the deal’s length more significantly than the Mets did on the money.
That’s not to say he fared poorly. His deal checks in as the third-largest contract in MLB history in terms of total guarantee. Hardly coincidentally, it tops Fernando Tatís Jr.’s recent $340MM extension with the Padres by the narrowest of margins. The deferred money in Lindor’s deal keeps the contract’s actual value a bit below Tatís’, since none of the latter’s money is deferred. Nevertheless, Lindor picks up a symbolic $1MM more than one of the game’s other top shortstops. By average annual value, meanwhile, Lindor’s $34.1MM comes in sixth all-time. It is also easily the biggest financial outlay in Mets history.
Keeping one of the sport’s best players and most charismatic people for the next decade is certainly a huge development for the Mets on its own. But the Lindor deal also represents something of a symbolic leap for the organization’s future under new owner Steve Cohen. Under the previous ownership group, the Mets’ payrolls were closer to average than the top-of-the-market range one would expect from a team in New York City. The offseason sale of the franchise to Cohen, MLB’s richest owner, brought hope for Mets fans of a massive uptick in spending.
New York had an active winter, but they didn’t make a true splash at the top of free agency, to the consternation of some observers. By extending Lindor, the Mets keep one of the top players in next winter’s class off the market. The 2021-22 free agent shortstop class has drawn plenty of attention. It remains loaded, with Corey Seager, Trevor Story, Carlos Correa and Javier Báez all slated for the open market. Lindor was perhaps the face of that group, though, and he carried as much or greater earning power than his peers.
Because Lindor’s extension begins in 2022, the Mets’ books for the upcoming season are unaffected. The two sides had already agreed to a $22.3MM salary for this season to avoid his final potential trip through arbitration; Lindor will play out the year on that deal. Pushing the extension off a season also keeps the Mets’ competitive balance tax number for 2021 at the same level- around $194MM, in the estimation of Cot’s Baseball Contracts. That leaves New York with about $16MM of breathing room if they wish to stay below the $210MM tax threshold this year.
Lindor’s deal will count for $34.1MM (a deal’s average annual value is measured for CBT purposes) against the luxury ledger every year from 2022-31, assuming the luxury tax system is still in place under the terms of the next collective bargaining agreement. The deal pushes the Mets’ actual payroll number in 2022 to over $127MM, per Cot’s, with a projected luxury tax number of $135MM. New York will need to shell out another significant outlay (albeit nothing approaching the Lindor range) if they wish to keep star outfielder Michael Conforto from hitting free agency over the offseason. The Mets and Conforto have talked about an extension this spring and could continue those conversations into the season.
Regardless of what decisions Cohen and team president Sandy Alderson make in the coming months, they’ll be able to build around their new franchise shortstop. In the waning moments before their self-imposed extension deadline, the Mets and Lindor got the deal done.
Jon Heyman of MLB Network (Twitter link) was first to report an agreement had been reached and the deal’s general range, as well as the presence of some deferrals. Anthony DiComo of MLB.com was first with terms (Twitter link). Andy Martino of SNY (via Twitter) was first to report the existence of a no-trade clause and the absence of opt-out clauses. Bob Nightengale of USA Today was first to report the deal began in 2022 (via Twitter). Joel Sherman of the New York Post was first to report the $50MM in deferrals (Twitter link), as well as the yearly rates (Twitter link) and deferrals (on Twitter) and the fifteen-team no-trade clause (on Twitter).
Sliderdownandin
Wonder how many years it is for. Probably 10.
ba2929
It’s 10.
Tatsumaki
Makes tatis look like a steal for more years less per season
padam
The Tatis contract has his minimum and arb years baked in.
Tatsumaki
Still 24 million over 14 years is a steal especially if tatis continues his tear on both sides of the ball. They will both be playing through their mid thirties on their next contracts. 24 per for tatis through age 35 or lindor at 34 million per through age 37/38? I’d rather have tatis less bad decline years too
Fever Pitch Guy
And Tatis doesn’t get a $21M bonus just to sing! Yeah this contract will not age well, the numbers aren’t there to support it. Big mistake by a rookie owner.
Lurking
If you call Tatis 24M a year, you have to acknowledge they are currently overpaying 50x what he should be making. And for at least the next 3 they will be paying hun more than he should have made to that point in arb, per year
He got 10/306 for his free agent years. Comparing arbitration and pre arbitration seasons with only FA seasons to make a proclamation about value is a joke
stretcharmstrong1
Agreed, but Cohen has the pocket space to grit his teeth the last 4 years of the deal. They can always move him to second or left once he starts declining enough to move him off short. Plus the NL will more than likely have the dh by that time.
Tatsumaki
@lurking Funny, yet with the market always on the rise padres pay more short term. They then gain value in 3/4 years when the cost for a gold glove offensively gifted shortstop could make 40-45 million a season and they are still paying him 24 mill per season. It’s a bargain, if he continues his play of course risk is on padres if he drops off now all of sudden but, it still does hold huge value.
deweybelongsinthehall
Looks like ticket prices at Citi Field will increase in 22. Still won’t reach the stupid prices behind the plate at Yankee Stadium where empty seats are the norm for the typical home game.
deweybelongsinthehall
Not a mistake when you’re looking to take the back page so to speak from the Yankees. If the season starts well, fannies will return as allowed. Once however the initial excitement ends, many teams will experience gate shortfalls as some fans don’t have the bucks right now and others may have adjusted to life outside of a ball park. Good PR move for an owner who likely included an intial splash or two in his planned investment costs. Will though be interesting to see next off season how other owners factor this into offers to other SSs that are available. It also probably will allow Boegarts to renegotiate his deal assuming he wants to stay in Boston.
jopeness
those aren’t empty because they are super overpriced. they’re empty because their super overpriced for normal ppl and are PSLs, not to mention security doesnt let us move down like the old days. the best part as a kid was waiting till the 8th or so to get closer to maybe scream cheers at Mattingly. they dont even let you stand and look now, very unfriendly
Lurking
Oh @Tats
“ lurking Funny, yet with the market always on the rise padres pay more short term. They then gain value in 3/4 years when the cost for a gold glove offensively gifted shortstop could make 40-45 million a season and they are still paying him 24 mill per season”
1. This hasn’t happened. You have no way of saying it will happen. We now have Trout get 360M, Cole 300+, Betts 368M and Lindor 341. Huge numbers. Yet no one has a long term aav over 36M. Who are all these people forcing the market to that level? And before you say it, if Soto gets there, that doesn’t mean other players will also reach that level. Not many on a Ted Williams pace. Oh yeah No one else is
2. No one has gotten 40M for 10 years. It’s not on the cusp of happening. Stop acting like it is, and then pretending reality is where you want it
3. Buddy. They won’t be paying him 24M when he’s in his FA years. He’s paid 10/306 for his FA years. That’s the real math. Thats Machado plus interest. Machado was a record at the time EVER and Tatis exceeded it before you can even quote “per 162” stats properly for Tatis
He gets 23M for arb, 1M this year, and 21M to sign. So 45M in next 4 years. 11.25M a year average
Then Tatis receives $20 million each in 2025 and 2026, $25 million apiece in 2027 and 2028, and $36 million in each of the final six seasons. 10/306
stymeedone
Tatis’ contract has more risk, as it has less history behind it. It is unknown if he can maintain those numbers, or if he will stay healthy.
User 3044878754
Lindor’s deal will count for $34.1MM (a deal’s average annual value is measured for CBT purposes)
CLEVELAND INDIANS TOTAL TEAM PAYROLL in 2021. $ 40 MM
I expect Rob Manfred ,the commissioner, to enact the “ in the best interests of baseball “ clause and negate the contract.
Brew’88
@stymeedone. If Tatis regresses and puts up the numbers that Linder has put up in his career (about 24 HRs, 285 BA) I’d be surprised. Last year Linder hit 258 with .415 SLG. I think the Padres got the better deal for a generational talent. But we’ll see. Let’s hope they both exceed value.
Bud Selig Fan
None of these long term, high dollar extensions are a “steal”. A steal is a talented pre-arby or 1st/2nd year arby player.
raisinsss
@Brower
You had two chances to get it right and went 0/2. Not an extension candidate in my book.
802Ghost
Acuna is a steal.
dugmet
Cohen is the wealthiest owner in baseball and is better equipped to absorb dead contracts than anyone else. This is NYC as well. If the Mets make the post season multiple times, the ROI will be substantial.
vtadave
It’s $63.8 million for CBT purposes. Indians that is.
theruns
If there’s anybody prepared to eat some money in order to sign an elite player, it’s Steve Cohen.
What he just gave Lindor is about a third of what he has spent on his art collection lol.
Dude spent $150 million on one sculpture.
Tatsumaki
@lurking Here I thought you’d actually have context or reasoning to support yourself instead it’s just that you don’t like what I have to say lol.
In your long winded novel that lacked any real substance, you made many arguments, one of which “that it won’t happen because it’s never happened before”…bud bauer just got 45 million a year as a pitcher. If covid hadn’t occured I think betts pushes for 400 million, covid suppressed his earnings a bit.
Tatis is a top 5 player now, if he continues his surge he will be getting paid for Trout or betts production at a faction of the cost of other superstars. Tatis is the closest thing to betts and Trout in terms of talent that meets production. Sure most teams prefer to wait it out for signing these deals but padres have to be risky to potentially keep up with dodgers. If they utilize all his arb years sure it would be less paid out short term but long term if he continues his torrid hitting and fielding he gets expensive fast. Add 5 more years of similar production and you don’t think he aims to pass trout and betts? Delusional
dpsmith22
considering 2 of those 3 reasons apply to both players, I will take the 5 years younger player, all day.
phenomenalajs
Good luck with that. First of all that AAV doesn’t start this year. Second, the MLBPA begs to differ with constraints being put on its members’ earning power.
Marcus Graham
If Cohen is still alive and even if he isn’t, it won’t affect him
EasternLeagueVeteran
Dewey, excellent analysis. This along with Tatis have now set the market for the premiere shortstops like Seager and Story next off-season, and yes maybe Boegarts.
hoof hearted
And he got a singing bonus.
Lurking
@tats you’re getting as annoying as Hudson dude. Read first. Gonna quote my own words at you too. Treat you both like children getting scalded
“That it won’t happen because it’s never happened before”…bud bauer just got 45 million a year as a pitcher. If covid hadn’t occured I think betts pushes for 400 million, covid suppressed his earnings a bit.“
And here’s what I said. See the difference?
“2. No one has gotten 40M for 10 years. It’s not on the cusp of happening. Stop acting like it is, and then pretending reality is where you want it”
Bauer is a TWO YEAR DEAL. Not a TEN YEAR DEAL. That’s the whole point. They paid more to not pay him for 10. Teams aren’t just going to say F it, here’s 400M to everyone! How dumb are you?
Next, Don’t use what you think players would have earned pre covid as your justification moron. It didn’t happen. It’s not fact. You can’t base your argument on BS. It’s your alternative world. Mookie Betts got 360M. Not 400. Not 450. Not 361. Stop making up false storylines to base your opinion off
“ Tatis is the closest thing to betts and Trout in terms of talent that meets production. ”
Juan Soto laughs at your assertion. Soto looks like the next Ted Williams. I’m wondering if Tatis’s slump at the end of the year is the start of a trend. No they aren’t equals
“ . Add 5 more years of similar production and you don’t think he aims to pass trout and betts? Delusional”
Reading is hard for you, isn’t it? You suck at actually responding to what was said. You’re as bad as Brewer or Hudson. 1 I never said he wouldn’t. The point is Padres did this BEFORE HE PLAYED FIVE MORE YEARS. THATS THE WHOLE FREAKIN RISK YOU IDIOT. They could have paid him PENNIES and still paid 30.6M per year. Why do I say that? Because they just did with their 3B. Who set an all time record at the time it was signed! You think it’s a coincidence those numbers are so close?
You think Tatis, in 4 years, would be able to say he is worth 100M more than Machado was at the time he was a FA? Hahahaha keep hitting that CA green
Continuing with your alternative reality so you can yell at people, you cannot pretend he has 5 more years of amazing production HE DOESNT. By your logic, Kris Bryant is still getting 250M this offseason?
You have Tatis 10/306 for his free agent season. There’s no voodoo math. I counted the numbers. That’s Machado money+ interest FIVE SERVICE YEARS before Machado earned that much
If you wanna say 24M AAV, you need to include the caveat EVERY TIME YOU MENTION THAT NUMBER, that they paid him 50x “average” what he should have made the first four years. But that would mean you have some level of intelligence and I know you won’t do that!
Hudson6
So many people, both Padre and Dodger fans, disagree with you. Yet you call everyone else an idiot? You must be right, even though those who should be your allies disagree? Doesn’t that tell you anything?
BeforeMcCourt
Tatsumaki has been in more arguments with more fan bases than any other poster at MLBTR. To say he represents dodger fan’s universal opinion Hudson is just hilarious. Any reasonable poster here knows this
A non biased person would agree Tatis’ extension is not as simple as 24M AAV, therefore he’s cheaper than Harper. That isn’t a fan base driven opinion. It’s comparing free agent years to already-cost controlled years. Do you truly believe that is apples to apples?
You seem to start a lot of arguments Hudson. You weren’t in this conversation before attacking. You did this multiple times in the Lindor topics. Why is that?
Hudson6
I start a lot of arguments? If you bother to look at the comment that I was responding to, you will notice that I was insulted. That is not ME starting an argument. That is ME responding to what YOU said Lurking. But keep playing games. It’s just sad.
jim stem
Meanwhile, Tatis has three errors already and has been thrown on the bases in bad decisions a couple of times, too.
Lindor starts his Mets career tonight. Let’s go, Mets!
Francys01
That is a lot of money. Good luck Mets with that contract. Hopefully, it works out for the Mets. I like Lindor, but that is a fortune for signing only one player.
debubba
It’s reported that there is some deferred money. He can join the Bobby Bonilla club!
phenomenalajs
The difference is Steve Cohen wasn’t reliant upon Bernie Madoff.
Both had each other over a barrel here. It was an overpay but he’s not getting any opt-outs. If he really thought he could get a better deal with stellar performance over the next couple years, he would’ve insisted on opt-outs.
The question is whether they’ll be able to extend others. Yes, Conforto is next, then Stroman & Thor, but I’m thinking more about Alonso and McNeil.
PeteWard8
Huge overpay. They’re paying him like he was the best player in baseball. What a bad deal I hear tell his effort leaves a lot to be desired.
camdog23
People who question a perennial all stars work ethic are total and complete clowns
MrMet1979 2
Mets aren’t keeping Stroman. Need that money for Thor
PeteWard8
camdog- I would never call you an insulting name just because I disagreed with you.
Orel Saxhiser
He is an elite professional athlete, which is due not just to talent but also hard work. People don’t like to hear or admit it, but athletes work a lot harder than the fans who chug beer while watching them on TV. These guys had a vision and worked hard to attain it. It’s the direct opposite of lazy.
Orel Saxhiser
You insulted Lindor by suggesting he doesn’t work hard.
Yep it is
PeteWard8 I semi agree but what the Angels paid Rondon was what set the early bar and it has become ridiculous.
honestune 2
You hear from who? Your dog?
Fever Pitch Guy
People who think All-Star appearances mean jack spit are total and complete clowns.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I don’t think they’re lazy but I work hard for two jobs and make a much smaller fraction than any sports star does. Basing an argument just off hard work is fallible.
looiebelongsinthehall
It’s unlikely any team including the Mets will re-sign all their free agents. No team can afford that cap wise if nothing else. Pick and choose. Such might depend on your farm system. Similar to Boston letting Els leave when JBJ first came up.
kcmark
But many can you do your job. Very few can do Lindor’s job. Also, while you may work two jobs, do you have to work out and practice after hours honing your skills for those two jobs?
garth16iorg
True. This guy hasn’t hit .300 in five years and won’t ever again.
Long Suffering Mets Fan
When he finishes receiving his deferments, Bobby will still be getting his.
its_happening
kcmark if that guy’s job had a paying audience or was shown on TV to millions of people he’d be paid. A lot. Guys like Lindor can see a shrinking paycheck if baseball fans decided to tune out for a couple years. Current players looking to get paid would find out quick the market only cares about you if they choose to care.
Captain-Judge99
@PeteWard8- the Mets really did what they had to do. And for what? The 2nd best shortstop in baseball. It seems pretty worth it to me. Smh
stymeedone
Those work outs and practice are not”after hours.” Just like an actor, its part of the workday.
jediknight
And to think, Lindor wasn’t even born when Bobby signed with the Mets in 1992.
kodion
LSMF
Check the math: Bonilla, finally, is done in ’35, not after ’41
phenomenalajs
They do financially. Most contracts have incentives for All-Star appearances.
phenomenalajs
Not sure about that. If it’s $10M per year for five years, that would go through 2036. Bonilla’s payments end in 2035, I believe.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Another buyers remorse in the making
jim stem
@mrmet1979. Personally, I hope the Mets trade Syndergaard if he comes back healthy.
I don’t think he has the thought process to make 32 starts a year and believe he will have many injuries as he gets older due to being too muscular.
I know that sounds odd, but I don’t think he understands pitching is not about weightlifting, bulk muscle and max velocity every pitch.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
They’re off the hook for Cano and his 32 or whatever mil he forfeited.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
Lindor will have plenty of cash to dye his hair now. I’d like to see a different color every week for the 10 years.
looiebelongsinthehall
What happens in a few years when it falls out?
KCJ
Looie –
Orange pubes
Eatdust666
He could just get a wig and dye it blue or whatever, problem solved.
Deadguy
500 millions!
chippahawk
“Lindor will be paid a $21MM singing bonus”
Man, I hope he can put on a better show than the freakin weekend..
Treehouse22
One step closer to a game destroying dichotomous compensation system. If you’ve ever wondered what might destroy our great pastime, this nonsense is it.
terry g
Wow! The Mets did it, A little below what some were guessing.
padam
Paying him in shares of Game Stop.
phenomenalajs
Well played.
Baseball 1600
The reporters were terrible with this one. “Lindor is asking for more than 50M the Mets current offer”
proceeds to settle for 340M
ba2929
Can’t blame the reporters for passing along what Lindors agent told them
Baseball 1600
The report I was referencing was 30 mins before this news. Just seems fishy, that’s all.
PhanaticDuck26
the original offer was likely somewhere in the 280-290 range (it was widely reported to be under 300). Add in the extra 50 million that Lindor wanted and you are pretty damn close to the final deal number.
DarkSide830
that suggests they didnt just make it up…
whynot 2
How do you know any of that was inaccurate? They very well could have been $50 mil apart because of the two extra years Lindor’s side was asking for
ayrbhoy
Baseball in the year 1600 – the number between the camps was reported to be actually more than $50M as per Buster Olney’s Baseball Tonight podcast. I believe it was a $65M difference w Lindor’s agent asking for $385M
looiebelongsinthehall
Does next year’s salary really matter when there likely will be a strike/lockout? The best will always get paid but the last two off seasons shows how the MLBPA needs to better consider the needs of their rank and file. This deal may raise the boats of all superstars in the free agency waters but the other free agents will suffer even more unless the tax levels and penalties for exceeding them don’t change,
TommyHawkBraves
It starts in 2022, so it’s essentially an 11 year $362 contract. Closer to 12/$385 than 10/$325.
bobg529
Yes, but that first year is for 22 million, not 34 million like the contract years. Helps to keep them under the salary cap if that’s a concern.
Orel Saxhiser
There is no salary cap in baseball.
Good Guys
No hard cap but I believe he is referring to the luxury tax.
Texas Outlaw
Like most long term deals, they will regret this after the first 5 years.
CalcetinesBlancos
Lol try two years.
Avory
Especially when Andres Gimenez proves to be 90% of Lindor at a fraction of the price. But hey, Mr. Smile is worth an extra $40m per year!
newpony13
Let’s see Gimenez hit 90% of Lindor’s home runs this year lol terrible take. You’re basing that off of one 60 game season for gimenez?
cookmeister 2
I think he’s basing it off Lindor’s slightly above average offensive seasons
Avory
The last 220+ games, Lindor hit less than .190 w/RISP. That’s 50% WORSE than the AVERAGE major league player, much less guys who actually perform in the clutch.
Trust me, Frrancisco Lindor has virtually had no big hits in the last two years and no meaningful moments in the postseason since game 2 of the ALDS.
You can inflate his solo home runs to make him a superstar, but if you put him under a microscope, you’d know he’s been all flash and no substance at the plate for two years in his prime. He was so embarrassing batting 3rd last year, that he begged out of the job of being a run producer.
If I were a Mets fan, I’d be very afraid of how he’ll perform under the bright lights. There is one glimmer of hope: that with the pressure of the contract no longer hanging over him, maybe he can relax and go back to being the player he was at the beginning of his career. Because this homer-happy, pitch-chasing, pop-up hitting, double play machine who can’t drive home a big run to save his life is no superstar (except with the glove; he is sublime with the leather).
whynot 2
Bitter Cleveland fan I see
Avory
Not bitter that he’s gone…it will be a pleasure to watch Andres Gimenez play baseball without the “I deserve a third of a billion dollars, why can’t CLE pay me?” attitude despite not performing. And heck yes I’m bitter, but only because of what he DID. You develop a player like Lindor and the system says we get to have him for six or seven years. And we expect those to be productive before we say sayonara and he signs with a big market for overpriced bucks. We have the guys in their prime and let the big guys pay them for their decline. So I’m not bitter that he forced his way out of CLE, I’m angry that he changed his game to try and make more money! His performance suffered and the team suffered for his homer-happy ways. The last two years were not an extension of greatness, they were a decline, right when CLE needed him the most. His failures were our failures and, yes, it was incredibly disappointing. Had he been the old Lindor, I would never had traded him away and would have kept him the entire length of his contract because he would have been worth it. But honestly, he’s not nearly worth the $22.3 m. he’s getting this year if his performance continues to decline, much less the extension, good grief. Why the Mets didn’t wait to see how he’d do this summer and then have the glut of SS in the market to drive down prices is beyond me.
Fever Pitch Guy
For the Mets it was pure instant gratification, a desire for the new owner to make a big splash. It will become a very costly lesson for them, and Lindor won’t save them by getting caught using PED’s.
whynot 2
Ok, so that’s a big time yes to being a bitter Cleveland fan
YourDreamGM
I regretted it for them 5 seconds after I heard.
dimitriinla
I would imagine very soon. This is a poor deal from the outset. Robinson Cano would at least understand (if not himself call it poor).
Nabillionaires Live for Crismania
I’m honestly so happy right now, I guessed $360m so $340m is refreshing honestly unless it’s for like 8 years or something
Captain-Judge99
I guessed $340-350 million for 10 years. I think it’s a great deal for Lindor and the Mets. The Mets are set at shortstop for the next 11 years. What’s there not to like about this deal? The Met’s organization and their fans should be excited.
Yankee Clipper
Yankee4Life: Yes, you called it, my friend on the front end!
So, either:
1- Lindor set his ego aside and accepted considerably lower (virtually the same money over the 10) money, or;
2- Cohen, being the lifelong money-man, had Lindor believe he upped the total contribution from him $16MM, when he actually didn’t because of how the deferral works.
Many of us said Cohen wasn’t going to budge and he didn’t. He likes to be in charge and as he has demonstrated, when he draws a line, his ego is the biggest in the room.
Nonetheless, Mets got a great SS signed when yesterday it looked impossible. They should be excited because he’s one of the top SS in the game and will be for the next few seasons. This shows a different direction, it’s real money, and Cohen is showing he will make some legit commitments to sign impact players long term. Lindor will be a lifelong Met and retire there, which is pretty cool.
Captain-Judge99
@Yankee Clipper- thanks brother! The only two things that could go wrong. Lindor is not a NY type of player. And other thing is if he gets hurt. I really wouldn’t of minded Frankie on the Yankees. The Mets did excellent. Good for them. They definitely look like a wild card team in the NL this season.
baseballblast
Honestly I just don’t think that we can count on really getting 10 years out of this. When you look at all these long term contracts they rarely play out where the team benefits from great production in the later years. Factor in injuries and everything else that can go wrong, it’s just a long time out to string this. Then you just have an albatross and you’re figuring out what to do with it. But, that being said, maybe this will turn out different. The Mets need some happy stories.
YourDreamGM
I am happy as well. I love seeing poorly ran teams make moves. New ownership same old mets.
dimitriinla
I’m so happy you’re happy.
despicable_you
This contract will not age well, you’re getting basically 4 or 5 years for 341mm.
debubba
That is every long-term contract these days. Management knows they will have sunk cost. For example, Upton and Pujols make up nearly 50 mil of sunk costs for the Angels. I’m still surprised these deals are being offered by teams. There is very little economical sense to do this.
dan55
The reason that deals like this keep getting made is that the player is so valuable in the first half of the contract that he more than makes up for the last half of the contract. Pujols has been horrible, but most big contracts are valuable for the teams.
Avory
Nonsense. You can count on one hand the number of these guys who were “worth” what they gave their teams early OR late. It’s a dumb, dumb way to build a team. Only the MLBPA can make that case.
WarrenSpahn
the money is coming from hedge fund profits which is basically like theft so this is just money-laundering…
dan55
It’s not nonsense. Scherzer is worth his contract. A-Rod was worth his contract. Tanaka was worth his contract. Verlander is worth his contract. Kershaw is worth his contract. Jeter was worth his contract. Votto has produced over 35 WAR since signing his contract. Greinke has been worth his contract.
There’s more to this list, I just can’t remember every single player who has signed a big contract.
SheaGoodbye
Pujols also seemingly lied about his age at the time the deal was struck so he’s a special case. But more importantly, when you’re talking deals of this scale, context is extremely important. Each and every case should be looked at individually rather than looking at all past large contract deals and making assumptions based off of them. There just aren’t enough of such datapoints to say anything definitively.
In this particular case, It’s especially important to factor in the marketing aspect. With a team like the Mets who have played second fiddle to the Yankees in one of the largest media markets in the world, new owner + newly extended and charismatic superstar should go a long way to erasing the poor image of the past.
padam
Jeter wasn’t worth more than his last contract based on his stats. But I’d pay him anyway. Unicorn.
Cohens_Wallet
@Avory
It’s how the Dodgers were built and how the Yankees were built.
ludafish
Yeah but didn’t be sign a 10 year deal? 10/180 I believe and a really big deal at he time. Marketing alone he was worth the money
Orel Saxhiser
Regardless of WAR, teams make a fortune by signing these stars, otherwise, they wouldn’t do it. Owners are in it to make money and increase their franchise’s value.
Avory
@Cohens_Wallet
You’re kidding, right? The Yankees and Dodger fortunes rose when their farm systems became productive. When they weren’t, they couldn’t come close to buying their way to titles.
Yankee Clipper
I think @dan55 is right. The player sells. The first half makes the team so much money (on star players) that it is worth it for the team. Otherwise, why do it? @Avory, you’ve made some excellent point throughout this thread, but I agree with dan55 on this one. The players net the teams some pretty great profit.
Yankee Clipper
@Avory’s last point is spot-on. The core must be farm-built. You ain’t buying a core of a team and neither the LAD nor the NYY bought their core talent for their championship teams.
phenomenalajs
The Mets “weak” farm system is responsible for four of their top players – deGrom, McNeil, Alonso and Conforto. They wouldn’t be completely “buying” a championship if they were to win one.
despicable_you
I understand that but they should have waited until FA, there is basically no market the nyy, Cubs, Red Sox and lad are all probably out
Tone Loaf
There’s always a team willing to spend more than we think. No one expected the Nationals to get Scherzer or the cubs to get Darvish
kc38
This is how the Rays build years and years of success. And yes they have yet to win a World Series so get off my case but I believe it can be done
Captain-Judge99
kc38- of course they’ll will win a World Series in 3021, or whenever they decide to move out of Tampa Bay? Smh
tidybowlman
Why would he be bad in his age 30 or 31 season?
MetsFan22
Lol all y’all mad!
VonPurpleHayes
@MetsFan22 It’s hilarious that when he wasn’t signed everyone was dogging the Mets. Now he’s signed and people are saying “they’ll regret it.” People just like to hate sometimes.
MetsFan22
True. I like arguing with you bc you at least don’t hate you just say what you think. Which is really good. A lot of posters here just hate on the Mets.
1984wasntamanual
It’s almost like the amount of money and years a player signs for impacts reactions to the player signing.
Mjshof
It’s almost like people react to the fact that taking a family of four to Citifield costs $500
VonPurpleHayes
@Mjshof That was always the case. When the Mets were terrible in the 90s Shea stadium still had high ticket prices and the most expensive parking. It has little to do with the talent they put on the field and everything to do with being in NY. Lindor gives them another reason to jack prices up, but let’s be real, going to a Mets game was always expensive outside of a few cool promotional days.
DarkSide830
man that’s 11th hour
CalcetinesBlancos
Damn it! I really wanted to see what he would do this year without signing.
Are we taking bets on what he does this year anyway?
dixoncayne
I know it’s $340 but how does even he know he’ll like playing in NY? 10 years is a long commitment
CalcetinesBlancos
It’s no Cleveland.
joebourgeois
Ouch
Avory
Exactly. In Cleveland you can actually leisurely drive to the ballpark. You know, and have a nice suburban life unburdened by the craziness of New York. But hey, he can build a cocoon around him with that money.
I just hope he never sees the playoffs again.
dan55
@Avory – I wish there was a way to downvote comments.
VonPurpleHayes
You realize the Mets play in Queens, right? It’s not Manhattan. You can drive to the ballpark. While technically part of the city, and not a suburb, it’s very different from Manhattan.
Avory
dan55
You just did! Well done! Now go root for the team that helped the Tribe avoid a rebuild. CLE appreciates your team’s contributions!
ludafish
Lol right because NY has no suburbs at all. Long Island doesn’t exist. And all the millions of people who live there are trapped and WISH they could move to Cleveland. And man it’s so difficult taking their amazing public transportation to the stadiums, way better off driving and wasting all that money on parking and then staying sober so you can drive back. Yeah such a shame he gets to be a multi millionaire in New York
Personally I dislike New York… But come on Avory
Avory
Been to the park plenty of times; driving to a Mets game is like an absurd exercise compared to driving to downtown Cleveland.
Cubsforever22
Lol no offense but I’m pretty sure most young and super famous/talented people would much prefer living in NYC to living in Cleveland. Just a fact, really no offense to Cleveland and or their fans at all. Plus he will prolly more than double his new contract with endorsements due to his personality and talent playing in the biggest sports market on Earth. Yes I kno it’s the Mets and not the yanks but he will still get plenty of those endorsements. Get ready to see a lot of Mr. Smile on tv…
Brew’88
Can we keep criticism of mass transit, or walking, out of these posts? There is a place for that, such as @couchpotato,com, but this is a baseball forum.
Birch
Driving to a Mets game is not that bad at all. You just have zero clue where you’re going and you consider a 10 min delay to be heavy traffic.
Since you think you know everything from where you sit, how about the fact that everyone outside Cleveland believes it to be a complete dump? Why do superstars always leave your city, if it’s so great? Remember how you guys treated Lebron for leaving? Nobody wants to live in Cleveland. Driving to the ballpark is hardly a justification for playing for that team. You’re salty over a guy you claim to be happy is gone, so celebrate and stop finding excuses to criticize.
jbigz12
You can’t honestly being arguing for the “suburban life” in Cleveland. That’s probably not gonna do it. You play 81 games a year in your hone stadium and you live in a hotel and wherever the hell you want in the offseason.
Nabillionaires Live for Crismania
How do you know you’ll like playing anywhere else when signing a free agent contract? It’s really no different, other than the fact the Mets get sole negotiating rights.
ludafish
Marketing. I don’t think he’s worth it as a player but his whole demeanor of being the smiling fun guy is marketable as heck. Giant city giant fan base he becomes the face of the team and you market him like crazy. Compete with the west coast and their attempts to market the stars over there. It’s going to be fun
Cubsforever22
Exactly, 100% spot on!
allweatherfan
He’s getting $340 million dollars. You can learn to like any place in this country with that amount of money.
PhanaticDuck26
Dixon, you answered your own question with the phrase, “it’s $340 million” That’s the only thing that matters for like 95% of these players. Not bashing ’em, I’d be the same way.
icantstandyous
Had to have more than tatis. These guys all want to set the record.
lettersandnumbersonly
The comments always make me shake my head and laugh.
377194
Well, at least this made the trade for him worth it, and not a one year rental.
Deleted Userrr
Nope. That would only be true if they HAD to trade for him first to offer him this later.
Also, are you saying that trading for a rental is never worth it? How about the Cubs and Aroldis Chapman?
Deleted Userrr
I do find it pretty funny how he just HAD to get that extra $1m so that he can say he beat Tatis.
FWIW I am not convinced he gets this in FA, which defeats the purpose of giving it to him now.
tedtheodorelogan
Correa, Seagar, and Story are stoked.
CalcetinesBlancos
Not necessarily.
LaFlamaBlanca
Yeah doubt it, that’s one less team willing to dish out that kind of contract.
Cap & Crunch
They are totally stoked indeed
findingnimmo
This is amazing. Just focus on first half of contract and what that could mean to the team. Pair that with degrom and Alonso’s time with the team. Could be special and you can’t waste DeGrom years. Lindor is the perfect personality for nyc. Love the ten years and not 12 too.
1984wasntamanual
The Mets are going to be up against the luxury tax (should it stay) and still have a lot of holes. Not sure how special they’re gonna be.
Birch
What are their current holes? 3B, CF…. ?
Brett Baty or a FA; FA signing or trade for CF.
IF – McCann, Alonso, McNeil, Lindor, Baty/FA
OF – Nimmo, FA/Trade, Conforto
Also, “special” teams are at or over the tax threshold. So, not quite sure what you’re getting at.
Lurking
341M! Hahaha pegged that weeks ago
Anyone who thinks players don’t care about beating the previous contract, remember Lindor now got 1M more than Tatis, and JTR finally signed when he got 100K more per year than Mauer
Lotta money for a great player. 340M. Whew. I personally don’t believe he’s that class of player. Congrats Mets fans. No matter what I think Y’all deserve to be happy tonight.
Avory
Man, “greatness” must be in short supply if that’s what Lindor possesses. You do know that he doesn’t come close to being a Hall of Famer at this point, right? And if you extrapolate his career based on his last two years he won’t be?
Mets were jobbed by Lindor, but I don’t blame them; all of baseball was. Francisco played the media and fans and owners like a fiddle, managing to build a “superstar career” without actually having one. I really thought maybe Steve Cohen might see through all the BS, but he proved to be as weak as all owners who just have to make a splash and later regret the bender.
Lurking
Avory, in no way is Lindor aHOF or on a HOF track, nor did I say he was
He’s a top 50 and maybe better talent in This generation id argue, when healthy, and I’m not a big Lindor guy.
Let me say when I said “lotta money for a great player” I was implying he’s good but there are many more better. Those are the true elite of the league. Great is below elite to me
I’d argue top 50 fits into the top 2 tiers of players. It’s still an overpay imo, I Don’t disagree. But I get the excitement too
Really this deal tells me, again, that Preller massively overpaid Tatis
Avory
If Preller had a hand in building Sad Diego’s incredible farm system, then I salute him.
But when it comes to trades, free agency, and contract extensions, I just shake my head. Just awful. There’s a reason the Cleveland Indians have a dedicated line just for him.
Lurking
He built theSD system. I’ll give credit where it’s due
But only after he destroyed it in 2015 first. This is his 2nd time “going for it in SD”, not his first
Brew’88
I’m a Giants fan, and just don’t see where the Indians gained that much talent from Preller, mediocre haul at best? And Clevinger health can’t be factored into the trade unless you’re implying that Cleveland knew he needed TJS at trade time?
OntariGro
“You do know that he doesn’t come close to being a Hall of Famer at this point, right?”
He has played 6 seasons (well, 5 + 2020) and is 27 years old. Why would anyone expect him to be anywhere close to being a Hall of Famer?
“And if you extrapolate his career based on his last two years he won’t be?”
Yeah, using an arbitrary time-frame to “extrapolate” (however you’re defining it) the remaining career of a player entering his prime, you could definitely conclude that. What use that is, and to whom…who knows?
Avory
He is not “entering” his prime. The last 2 years were entering his prime and they were declining years. It’s just a dumb signing is all, but more power to him. He sacrificed his team to hit homers and it worked; it kept his reputation alive that he is a superstar and he got paid. Now let’s see how it all works out. Maybe he goes back to being a complete player, who knows?
OntariGro
“The last 2 years were entering his prime”
Semantics but I’ll amend: using an arbitrary time-frame to “extrapolate the remaining career of a player entering his age 27 season, you could definitely etc.
Leaving aside that that’s not how a decline works, his 2019 is not drastically different than his previous 2 seasons. You do clearly want to treat the 1/3-sized, completely unique 2020 as hyper-meaningful/indicative of…something.
“He sacrificed his team to hit homers”
2017 AB per HR: 19.7
2018 AB per HR: 17.3
2019 AB per HR: 18.6
managed 40+ doubles, 15-25 SB, 100+ Runs (missed by 1 in ’17) and played superlative defense. Could you elaborate on the Team For Homerun exchange you’re referring to?
Avory
@ OntariGro
Results are not indicative of the underlying change in approach. Check out chase rates, hard-hit rates, contact rates. Lindor was swinging for the fences the last two years. Just because he didn’t reach ’em any more is a further indictment of his approach and evidence of decline as a hitter.
Some of you people really do need to watch the games. The guy’s situational approach seriously deteriorated. His .190 average w/RISP over the last 220+ games was just pathetic. You could say he was pressing; will he continue to do so in an effort to live up to his contract and the glare of NYC?
It will be interesting.
OntariGro
“Check out chase rates”
Spiked in 2019, decreasing in 2020
“Hard Hit rates”
peaked in 2019 (hitting the ball hard is good tho?), dipped 11% in 2020
“Contact Rates”
2019 1% increase in contact rate, 4% increase in swing rate
2020 4ish% decrease in contact rate, 4ish% decrease in swing rate
Looking at the last 2 years, the numbers seem to indicate a different approach in each season rather than a 2-year-long change you seem to see.
“Just because he didn’t reach ’em any more is a further indictment of his approach”
In 2020 he swung less, made less contact, and less hard contact. Pretty clear indictment of his approach at the plate in 2020
“and evidence of decline as a hitter.”
It’s poor results over a historically unique 60 game sample. If that’s enough for you, it’s enough for you.
therealryan
If you extrapolate Lindor’s last 2 seasons over the next 10, he finishes his career with 400+ HR, 2600+ hits, 75+ WAR and a 115 OPS+.. That’s absolutely a HOF SS.
Avory
Wow. Now THAT’S likely, right? I mean a constant performance from age 29 through age 38? Good luck with that! You should be a player agent!
therealryan
You’re joking right? Let me remind you what you said, not me. Again, these are your words, not mine, “You do know that he doesn’t come close to being a Hall of Famer at this point, right? And if you extrapolate his career based on his last two years he won’t be?”
If you extrapolate his numbers, as you said, you were wrong because he would be a HOF. Not my fault you are saying dumb stuff to try and justify your jealousy and hurt feelings. Be better and then you wouldn’t have to try and attack people for what you said.
Lurking
Hahahaha wow. The real Ryan. YOURE JOKING, right?
You direct quote what the guy says AND THEN YOU don’t actually read what he says. But you have the audacity to say. No no, let me quote your words back
Here genius. I’ll explain. He said if your extrapolate ON THE LAST TWO YEARS FOR LINDOR
You’re a moron and went for the whole career, then quoted his words, only to be 100% wrong on what he was saying!
Hahahahaha you’re the summary of
what is wrong with this comment section. You’re an jerk, call someone dumb, and you can’t even read!
Avory
@lurking
Thank you. I just didn’t have the energy to respond to the lack of reading comprehension. I appreciate your willingness to take it upon yourself to do so in such an effective manner.
KCJ
Lurking –
It’s always about the ego with these freakin athletes. Just HAVE TO be the highest paid player at their position…even if its by as small of a margin as $340 mil to $341 mil, they absolutely need to be the highest paid. BIG FAT EGO….small pathetic man.
Cubsforever22
Lol like if someone offered you that extra million you would say no, I think tatis is better. Gtfo lmaooo
KCJ
No I wouldn’t, but I wouldn’t demand it for the sole purpose of my giant ego and just to make me the highest paid player at my position so I could brag to all my buddies about it. They really need to have an age limit on the commenters on here….it’s way too obvious who the teenagers living in mama’s basement are. At least an IQ test (looking at you, Cubsforever22).
gbs42
Calling out another commenter for being immature while throwing out childing insults seems immature.
At least the hypocrisy is consistent.
gbs42
Calling a player small and pathetic for trying to set a salary record – which will help future players maximize their earnings – seems rather small and pathetic.
KCJ
gbs42 –
My comment about Cubsforever22 applies to you as well. Come on back when you turn 18. This has NOTHING to do with helping future players maximizing their earnings. This is purely an ego motivated move. Do you really thing that pushing the bar less than 1/3 of 1% is going to help anyone in the future?
He’s most likely earning LESS overall than he would have if he’d taken the original offer, due to $50 million now being deferred. But he just had to have the numbers that show he has the biggest total, because of his ego. You’ll learn about finances in your senior year.
gbs42
KCJ – It’s possible we’re both right, that this is about Lindor’s ego while also helping Seager, Story, Correa, etc. in their contract negotiations.
It’s also possible to comment without insulting others.
LordD99
Exceeding $340M was always the target. I had 10/345 a month back. They saved $4M!
Rangers29
HOLY SHIIIIIII!!!!
THIS IS HUGE. UNCLE COHEN IS HERE TO SAVE THIS TEAM!!!!!
MetsFan22
People are going to learn who Cohen is soon enough.
Cohens_Wallet
@MetsFan22
Your comment should be posted on top as best comment of thread.
brucebochyisthemarlboroman
Pretty sure they already know who he is. Especially those familiar with his hedge fund.
24TheKid
Exactly. Most people already know who he is, and already strongly dislike him.
VonPurpleHayes
Yup. I hated him before he bought the Mets. I think this is a good signing on his part though.
Cohens_Wallet
I guess I had a plan after all.
FletcherFan60
He did it. Uncle Steve actually did it.
jury_rigger
Bad deal for the mets
VonPurpleHayes
I knew he’d be a longterm Met for 340ish, but I fully admit that I thought it’d happen next offseason. Good on the Mets.
terry g
That’s a pretty deal for the Mets, $50M deferred, limited no trade, no op outs and begins in 2022.
DodgerOK
3 years and he will want out of NY.
phillyballers
Read this fast, thought it was 341M and 340 in deferrals lmao
junkmale
They’ll be wishing for some saintly team to take on that contract by ‘25
angt222
Big Daddy Cohen got it done.
mils100
Not my money or yours. Would have been great if he could have stayed in Cleveland.
He’ll be quite good for most of this deal. Good athlete, well-conditioned, should be a star for at least 5-7 more years – can always move to 2nd one day.
Avory
“Well conditioned”? Ha-ha-ha…he tuckered out in a 60 game season and was so mentally weak he had to beg out of the three-hole he was so bad in big situations. The guy is SO overrated. But he’s the Mets’ problem now.
gbs42
Abort, how many times are you going to comment ripping Lindor? I think we know how you feel by now.
troll
just a about any contract over 5 years is a crapshoot
ayrbhoy
This Lindor excitement will help let the Mets fans down gently after Jarred Kelenic wins the 2021 AL ROY award at the end of this season! Haha JK Mets fans- I wish my Mariners signed Frankie Lindor, you guys secured a helluva player. Congrats
JayRyder
Good contract for both sides
Deleted Userrr
What happened to 12/$385m firm? Or to 10/$325m firm?
proof2006
If the 10/325 was no deferrals it’s probably actually more money depending on how that 50mil is spread out. The further out it goes the more it depreciates
PhanaticDuck26
Negotiation happened.
troll
bad contracts happen
Lurking
Deadlines happened
Lloyd Emerson
Great, now Javy Baez will want $342 million.
theodore glass
Baez would be lucky to see 150 unless he has a big year.
bigdaddyhacks
So when does he get hurt, and when does the ole mets curse get to him. My guess, may.
seaver41
Ya Gotta Believe in Uncle Steve!!!!
Col_chestbridge
Mets basically have to win a championship in the next 5 years for this contract to work out. Aging curves are not kind to shortstops. Lindor is a good defender and his bat is good enough to eventually move and be a serviceable 2B/3B, but there’s a reason there are no old shortstops in MLB. He’s going to be worth the money the next few years, but the Mets’ minor league system is bare and their rotation has a lot of miles on their arms already.
5 years from now you’re talking about moving Lindor off to be less valuable elsewhere, while your starting rotation is probably in shambles. The pressure is on for them now.
bobtillman
Steve loses billions on bitcoins, team is sold to the Man from Mara Lago, who trades Lindor for Rob Refsnyder and a hotel to be named.
Hey, it’s the Mets!
sfes
Don’t you dare mention that name in the same sentence as the Mets
deuceball
What’s the difference between lindor and gregorious? About 300million dollars. 4th best shortstop in his division behind turner didi and dansby.
VonPurpleHayes
I’m a Phillies fan. I love Didi. Lindor is a better SS than Didi. Not even close.
PhanaticDuck26
dansby? you’re joking, right? Lindor is the best in the division by far.
Cubsforever22
Lmao, even if you are extremely biased the only guy wfo you could possibly argue is better is Turner, but I’d still take Lindor any day of the week. I like didi but really??? Dude isn’t even a decent defensive ss anymore
Treehouse22
Complete friggin idiocy. The players who are just a little less talented are fighting for 1 to 3 year contracts worth $3 to 8 mil per year. So wrong. Enjoy his 3 to 5 good years…then, well, good luck with that.
yanks2323
Baseball needs to adopt the NFL where players can be cut and only a certain portion of their contracts are guaranteed. I know, this coming from a Yankees fan … lol.
ludafish
If you really want that to happen then the minor league and draft system have to change. Look at the NFL, you get drafted, you play. You can make a lot of money way faster. No one in the NFL complains about the guaranteed money. In the MLB players would lose their minds. They get drafted, some get a decent bonus, to make nothing in the minors for up to 3-4 years. Then make the league minimum for another 2-3.
Giant contracts like this would be a thing of the past if you got paid earlier. A guy like Lindor has been waiting to make this money, tons of players do.
Look at what Kyler Murray did. He said FU to the MLB got drafted and got that 8million a year to start. He could retire after his contract and live well. Otherwise he would still be in the minors.
its_happening
They go to the minors because they aren’t good enough to play in the majors. A minor remedy would be to expand from 30 MLB teams. But rarely are any high school or college player MLB ready on draft day. Very rare.
cgallant
What. Deferred money you say?
YourDreamGM
Excellent job Lindor. As for the Mets hahahahahaha way to cave in and over pay even more. I generally hate mega contracts with the few exceptions where it makes sense like Trout Harper, but would much rather have trout betts Tatis over Lindor.
Dorothy_Mantooth
They end up paying less actually when you consider present value of money. Deferring $50M of his deal to years 11-20 makes the current value of his 10/$341M contract less than the original 10/$325M offer with no deferrals. Cohen doesn’t care because he’ll be dead in 20 years anyways, but Cohen did not cave. He let Lindor have his bragging rights over Tatis with the $341M total, while signing a better economic deal for the Mets long term.
YourDreamGM
If Lindor’s team of attorneys, accountants, and agents didn’t factor in inflation and get some interest on that money knowing and willing losing money then that’s their loss.
Hudson6
$341 million dollars. Who would have guessed that it would take THAT EXACT NUMBER to sign him? I’ll be taking my bow now!
Lurking
I did, thanks
tribepride17
Mistake!
KCJ
I’m admittedly no financial genius, but is it possible that Lindor accepted LESS with the second offer than the first? The first offer was $325 mil with no deferrals….the second added $16 million but with $50 million deferred. How much extra is that, exactly…or is it actually less?
proof2006
Probably less as that $50mil depreciates. I guess it depends how long it’s pushed out into the future.
KCJ
Proof2006 –
So he may have just pulled a George Costanza and held out for LESS money?? Brilliant.
Lurking
You’re probably right. Or it’s basically the same amount with the deferrals. But it’s all about bragging rights. If you’re gonna forgo FA, he’s gotta set some type of record to stroke the ego
neurogame
And the bar for this upcoming Crown Jewels of Shortstop free agents has been set. Two are currently 26 yrs old while the others are 28 yrs. May the Brinks truck be with you.
PhanaticDuck26
I don’t think it ‘sets the bar’ in terms of others having a legitimate claim to ask for more than 340. Lindor was always going to get the most, FA frenzy bidding or not. Even with another stellar year from Seager, I’d be shocked–more shocked than Lindor’s 340–if Seager cracked 300. None of Baez, Correa, or Story will get to 300 either.
neurogame
How it could it not set a bar? The agents of every singe one of those players can start the negotiation process by comparing their client’s stats against Lindor’s at similar ages. Two of those players are already World Series Champions. I’m not saying they’ll absolutely meet or eclipse Lindor’s contract, but s9mething is going to have to give – either a short term, but high AAV, deferred salary or, somehow, long contract with smaller AAV.
I don’t know how many teams can realistically carry more than one contract of $300M+. I look at the Dodgers and they already have Mookie. Then, they have to look later down the line with Walker and Bellinger. With 30 teams in the MLB, you can already knock off SEVERAL who are not positioned or don’t have room to sign any of those franchise players in their prime.
Hudson6
Now it is going to take $342 million minimum for Seager. Have fun Dodgers.
Lurking
With Tommy John and hip surgery, plus the likelihood he has to move off SS before Lindor, he’s not getting as big of a deal as Lindor. Maybe higher aav and 8-9 years. But he’s not getting 340+
Hudson6
Haven’t you been spending all of you time since the Tatis extension yammering to everyone that not only is Seager better, but he is the best SS in mlb? Now all of a sudden he’s not worth it because of TJ and hip surgery? Try sticking with one story and not changing your narrative by the day!
Lurking
Jeez you are annoying. And once again making things up
I never said Seager was the best SS in the game. I said I’d rather have Seager than anyone else in the FA class. I may have said I prefer him over any other SS, but preference isn’t proclaiming he’s the greatest. Just making things up.
I’ve also been very consistent saying the 10/325 was dumb because I saw no one, including Seager, getting that much money. Ask Jim the Goat. Feels like we had this back and forth 10x in the last 3 days. I said the max I see Seager getting is 9/33-34M.
I said I do not believe Lindor would have a good enough 2021 to earn a 325M offer on the FA market. therefore the Mets offer was an overpay
I can go quote my comments. Don’t come at me bro. You’re wrong and just trying to be an Annoyance
Orel Saxhiser
Ha, after Seager’s poor play in the 2019 post-season, many Dodger fans were yammering about the need to upgrade at shortstop by trading for…yep, Francisco Lindor. Now, these same people think Seager should have a lifetime contract.
Hudson6
@ Lurking
Your words:
“Lindor isn’t that great of a fielder. He’s more good than amazing.
Seager had a 152 OPS+. Lindor had a 102 last year. That means Seager was 50% better hitter than Lindor. Seager is an ultra elite bat. Lindor is a great glove. They are not equals. The bat will age better than the glove.”
From “Mets, Francisco Lindor at impasse on extension talks.”
So on the one hand LURKING, you are saying that in a DIRECT comparison between Lindor and Seager that: Seager is a 50% better hitter than Lindor, they are not equal and the bat (Seager) will age better than the glove (Lindor).
And now “he is not getting as big a deal as Lindor”?
What ARE you saying? You go on and on about how Seager is soooooo much better, even using stats from a 60 game season to try to prove it, even saying that HE WILL AGE BETTER, and now he is not worth as much? How EXACTLY does that work?
Is he better than Lindor or isn’t he? Will he age better or will he not? You cannot have it one way in one article and the opposite way in a different article! So, take an actual stance and stand behind what you say. You didn’t mention TJ or hip surgery when you were telling everyone that he was better and will age better.
Lurking
So Hudson. First you’re cherry-picking literal parts of comments, taking the chunks out of context while also ignoring what I was replying to. You wasted time and went back to find my quotes, and you STILL failed to prove that I said Seager is the best SS in baseball.
“
So on the one hand LURKING, you are saying that in a DIRECT comparison between Lindor and Seager that: Seager is a 50% better hitter than Lindor, they are not equal and the bat (Seager) will age better than the glove (Lindor).
And now “he is not getting as big a deal as Lindor”?”
…..Yeah. I prefer Seager over Lindor. I’ve said that all along. That doesn’t mean I think Seager will get 340M+. I never said that because I do not believe it
I also said Cohen is overpaying Lindor even at 325, let alone 341. I said I believed Lindor would not see that good of an offer in free agency from any other team.
My exact point was Seager has the better bat and therefore, imo, his value will age more gracefully than Lindor. However I do not see Seager getting a 325M+ FA offer, and therefore I didn’t think any other team would offer Lindor so much
And genius. I did mention the TJ+hip surgery. Why? FOR WHY SEAGER WILL NOT GET AS MUCH AS LINDOR EVEN THO HE HAS BETTER OFFENSIVE NUMBERS AND I THINK HES THE BETTER PICK LONG TERM
My opinion has not wavered about this at all. Lindor will be overpaid in the market because cohen wants to make a statement (which happened ), but Seager has been the better player pre 2020 and now pre 2021. And I think he will be the better player going forward
There’s a difference between my opinion, and understanding the market. Man you are stupid
I’ve changed nothing dude. Learn to read entire comments
Lurking
Cey hey, I hope you know I was one of the guys arguing Seager over Lindor last year and how stupid those trade proposals were. Really hope you don’t think i have that flaky of an opinion about the dodgers
My name is less stand offish because padre fans got sensitive. Still the same guy who presents arguments the same way
Lurking
You’re a true bother Hudson. I usually wouldn’t care. But you were worth embarrassing. Here’s my exact words, all 2 days old from the Lindor Poll thread. Go search for my name in the thread if you don’t believe me. To show I’ve maintained my position on Seager $ vs Lindor $. My position on the SS market hasn’t changed. Oh. And that I called the 341 before you and you took my logic. Then spewed it 5x in the next Lindor thread like you thought of it! Why’d you never mention that before…?
Each paragraph, is a different comment. Do I also need to link the ones where I show Lindor’s gap in DRS, 5-10 runs, is nothing compared to Seager’s bat? You clearly remember some of my comments so I figured no need to add more reposts. But if you can’t remember. I’ll happily help you out
“My opinion doesn’t change the Mets offer. I’m just saying, I struggle to see any team giving a SS more than 330M (Harper $) when there’s 4 other options to choose from. Manny+Harper got their money not only as the best option at their position that year, but the best option for the next handful of years. That’s just not the case when the market is flooded with 4 stars and 3 or more additional starting options”
“I still believe that no SS will get 325M or 330M next year. Because the market will be flooded with shortstops, and supply and demand indicates the market is way more likely to decline than it is to expand.”
“Seager isn’t getting more than 10 years imo, and he’s been my guy since he was drafted. The injury risk and the necessity to move to 3B eventually will hold it down. 9 years, 33 Max? If he gets 10 years I fully expect it to be in line with Machado+ Tatis’s FA Money (10/306)”
And the 341. It was only within the first 20 comments and 100 comments before your first every mention of 341. Total coincidence!!
“All that “should” matter maybe. But if you don’t think players care about total dollars, I couldn’t disagree more. Harper got more than Manny despite the aav. Mookie got more than both. Tatis got more than Harper and manny to sign. You think that is all coincidental?
For Lindor to sign away his FA chance, I fully expect it to take at least 341M. And really I think he’s holding out trying to beat Betts and Trout. I think that’s laughable to put Lindor with those 2, but I digress”
Yeah buddy. Don’t push me and make me go back. Because I will. And you will look like a fool. And now, like the previous times I owned you on this topic, you won’t reply and pretend your argument wasn’t just blown to hell
Brew’88
I’m certainly no Dodger fan but I think Seager is worth more than Linder, for all the reasons Lurking said in that past email quoted by Hudson. The most valuable SS next 10 (14) years however is Tatis Story might be second best) and the Dodgers won’t give Seager more than Jr just because the Mets – Linder deal.
SoCalBrave
Good deal for both sides. A begrudging congratulations from a Braves fan.
Avory
Trust me, this is good for the Braves. Just be patient, you’ll see.
MetsFan22
What??? You think the Braves want Lindors next 5 years on the Mets??? Should the Padres be happy dodgers extended Betts bc his last years will suck? This makes no sense. Braves fans should not be happy regardless of who win the NL east.
Murphy NFLD
Dobt deferrals mean more money. I think the get interest on the deferred monies
proof2006
You don’t. That’s why players don’t always like them. It’s money they could have received and invested to earn money on it. Instead it is just given in the future when it is worth less than present day money.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Exactly. That’s why the original offer of 10/$325M with no deferrals was probably more valuable (from a present value of money calculation) than this new 10/$341M with $50M deferred evenly over 10 years after the contract expires. Cohen didn’t cave into Lindor’s demands. He stroked his ego while signing a deal that was basically the exact same value, if not a little less when all was said and done. Hey, at least he beat Tatis’ total contract value, right? So stupid….
KCJ
Dorothy – I Agree 100% and have left almost the exact same comment. Some of these people just don’t get it. I’m going to assume most of them are 18 years old or younger and have little understanding of finance, if any, or anything other than the latest Playstation game their currently playing in Mom’s basement (with Cubsforever22 and gbs42 leading the charge). Otherwise we have a serious problem with IQ levels in this country.
Yankee Clipper
KCJ: I’m pretty sure it’s both PlayStation and seriously low IQs in this country. Have you seen the institutions and what they’re instructing? Wow, we are regressing back towards cavemen.
KCJ
The one clown, gbs42, actually believes that the motivation behind Lindor’s demands to out-earn Tatis by $1 million ($340 vs $341) is to advance salaries and improve the future earnings of shortstops. Brain dead.
p4dr35
LOL!
That Tatis deal looking better ever day. Lindor is 27. This may turn out worse then the Cespedes adventure.
padam
By the second half of this contract his 34M per will be equivalent to 24M per today. He’ll probably move to 2B and produce more power, less speed. At least now the Mets can say they’ve kicked up the SS position for the next 5-7 years and not even think twice about it.
Next up – Conforto.
1984wasntamanual
Source for that claim?
mookiesboy
I’m interested to see if the 20M signing bonus is considered as salary in 2022 That would be great Having to eat Cano contract will have them over lux tax anyway. Why not do same with Conforto?
proof2006
Yes it’s salary. Baseball contracts are divided evenly against the Tax no matter the structure. $34 million against the tax every year.
metslvt17
Awesome! So stoked. This contract isn’t going to hinder the Mets in the future. Cohen is ready to play big boy NY baseball. You guys act like MLB has a hard salary cap or something. The Mets aren’t the Indians. A 34m contract isn’t going to prevent the team from contending down the road.
PhanaticDuck26
Phils fan begrudgingly giving Mets fan a thumbs-up….You’re right… Same argument for the Phils, to some extent… Can’t field an entire team of 30+mil players, but big market teams can more than afford to have a few of em.
Avory
Phillies have added over $700m in payroll obligations in the last three years only to play in ZERO playoff games.
It’s the very definition of lunacy.
VonPurpleHayes
Time will tell. So far, not so good, but it’s not like they only had a 3-year window. I’m certainly happy to see the Klentak-era over though.
PutPeteinthehall
Not a good deal for Mets. SMH.
Unlimited Power
Baseball prospectus has him at 3 seasons above 5 warp and the rest are all under 4. His peak is about now, so assume 2 more years of 5ish wins, then steady decline ( even though as a shortstop, it’s probably steep) to the end of the deal, around 50 wins overall, near Ellis Burks, Torii Hunter, and Dustin Pedroia. Excellent? Certainly. On a hall of fame track? Seems to be pushing it.
Avory
That’s a fair assessment. Of course, playing in NY increases your marginal chances of making the Hall over playing anywhere else. Otherwise I’d bet on him not making it.
OntariGro
Yeah, aaaaaalllll those darn Hall Of Very Good players riding their Mets tenures to Cooperstown.
Mike Piazza
Pedro Martinez
Tom Glavine
Joe Torre (Inducted as a manager)
Roberto Alomar
Rickey Henderson
Gary Carter
Eddie Murray
Nolan Ryan
Richie Ashburn
Tom Seaver
Duke Snider
Willie Mays
Warren Spahn
Yogi Berra
Casey Stengel (inducted as a Manager)
VonPurpleHayes
This is a little deceiving, as some of the players on this list didn’t get to the Hall for their Mets careers.
Metsin777
Wish they got Arenado instead, I like Lindor and think hes top 20 but thats a huge overpay
TradeAcuna
Let’s see how he performs after this inflated contract.
He may top Acuna and Tatis as criminally overrated players
PhanaticDuck26
I think your definition of ‘overrated’ could use a bit of reconsidering.
Acuna and Tatis are young, energetic, impact players in the league. They are damn good and they are fun to watch, so naturally people like to talk about them. That’s it. It is really quite simple.
What, were you expecting Acuna to get that 40/40 and he disappointed you, so you instinctively turn to the ‘overrated’ buzzword to make yourself feel better? Is that it? Or does Tatis’ contract–which has nothing at all to do with you–upset you in some way?
Orel Saxhiser
MLB is on track to explode globally a la the NBA. Guys who play with a flare like Tatis, Acuna, Lindor, and Soto will drive that push. Their type of energy is exactly what the sport needs to attract young fans who will stay with the sport — and spend — for life. People talk about baseball dying when the opposite is true. If it was dying, these players wouldn’t be garnering these types of contracts. Lots of exciting young talent in the game; more than in my 54 years of watching the sport. Be excited for this great game and its bright future.
Yankee Clipper
This is a superlative narrative @ Cey Hey and one that I’ve been behind for a while. I think MLB is rising… The Tatis types of the game are bringing in the younger crowds because of the manner in which they play. Energetic is an excellent descriptor.
I don’t think the core rules of the game, ie: #balls and strikes; limited innings; pickoff moves; #of times pitcher can throw over; distance between bases; etc…need to change to draw more people. The young uber-talented types, like Tatis, will be the draw. Kids watch to see certain players, not because of certain rules.
Luke Strong
I just do not understand teams signing players for 10 years mid-career, which in this case will take him to age 38. And why give any no-trade protection? Why would a team make it so they couldn’t unload the contract unconditionally at some point? These monster mid-career contracts almost never work out and they take so much away from the team’s ability to dynamically adjust the roster from year to year. I’ll bet this deal winds up cursing the Mets. Not to take away from Lindor’s talent, but this seems like too much for what he will be able to give them.
Avory
On the money. Any Tribe fan who saw every AB he’s had the last two years will tell you it was absurd he got a 30% raise for THIS year, much less a 10 year extension like this one. Trust me: the Mets will choke on this one.
Orel Saxhiser
The Mets have a vision and will rake in major bucks because of this. Deals like this contract tend to work out most of the time. It’s not about years 8-10. It’s about those first few.
giants51
Ridiculous amount of money……Nobody is worth that kind of money
PhanaticDuck26
“This contract is made possible by the loving support and generosity of fans like you, giants 51. Thank you for your patronage.”
Avory
Mike Trout is. Lindor at his very best would be worth what this contract will pay him each year. But the chances of that happening are virtually nil. Lindor is past his peak as a player, just nobody noticed. It happens when people don’t watch the actual games and just accept the reputation.
Dorothy_Mantooth
He went from 10/325M with no deferrals to 10/341 with $50M in deferrals spread across 10 years. I wonder what the present value of the contract works out to be? It’s probably not much more than the original offer of 10/325 factoring in the extra 10 years our payouts @ $5M/yr. after the contract expires. As someone mentioned above, there’s no question that Lindor first wanted to beat Betts for the highest extension ever signed. When he realized that was not a reality (and his agent probably confirmed he couldn’t get that in the offseason), he ‘settled’ for $341M so he could beat Tatis’ total contract value by $1M as the largest extension ever signed by a SS. I know he and his agent will say they wanted to set the market for the next union player, but this is really just an ego thing. I’m guessing the 10/325 offer might be slightly better (present value wise) than the 10/341 with $50M of it paid out over years 11-20, but Lindor just had to beat the Tatis total dollars no matter how the deal was structured and he ‘won’.
Good luck Mets; I hope this contract works out well for at least 7 of those years and that he’s not a complete bust in the final 3 years of the deal. They should have included an opt out after years 5, 6 & 7; Lindor might have been cocky enough to try it!
Grun67
Lindor was 12th in OPS among qualified shortstops in 2020 and 95th among qualified batters in 2020. HUGE OVERPAY on the part of the Mets.
Orel Saxhiser
You’re using 2020 stats to try to make a point?
Avory
Uh, yeah, when 2020 was the logical extension of 2019’s decline. I’m simply amazed people accept Lindor’s greatness without actually watching the games! Seriously, the guy hasn’t had enough big hits over the last two years to make a thirty second highlight reel. I’m just stunned at the acceptance of him as being other-worldly. He’s NOT! He was on a trajectory to be so, but not anymore. Unless this contract relaxes him as a player, but boy, I wouldn’t bet on it. No way.
Orel Saxhiser
Without him, will Cleveland even finish third?
Avory
Yes, they will, at the very least. Again, did you actually watch the games Lindor played for the Tribe over the last two years? Lindor is hardly the linchpin that holds the Tribe together, no matter what the national sporting press says. The idea that the Cleveland Indians collapse without him is hilarious and only shows again how little fans understand about the way the Tribe, Rays, and A’s operate and why they’re successful far beyond their means.
Chemo850
It’s basically an 11 year deal at this point so he actually came pretty close to what he wanted.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I’m surprised it’s not a full no trade clause. I don’t get the no opts outs though. The Mets can have 4 or amazing seasons then they have to make choices on players. They decides to rebuild. Why not opt out and go to a contender? Unless you have an mvp season you won’t get tbe same money but I’d much rather play for a winner over money. Just with that 21mil dollar signing bonus he’s set for life.
Orel Saxhiser
Great job by the Mets. People who focus on the later years of the contract don’t know what they’re talking about. Deals like this are investments that pay for themselves over the first few years. They help make rich owners richer. Otherwise, rich owners wouldn’t fork over the money.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
It’s nothing short of amazing that Reggie Jackson once signed a contract for 2.96dollars for 5 years. Now players get a minimum of 550k. And most get 5-10 mil on a 1 year deal. I would gladly take 550k for a year to be a role type player.
Orel Saxhiser
It demonstrates why owners shell out for these deals. They are making a ton of money by doing so. And no, you would not accept 550K when your role-player peers are making considerably more.
jleve618
I didn’t think they were gonna pull it off.
Orel Saxhiser
People who live paycheck-to-paycheck telling us that billionaires are dumb when it comes to managing money.
Fever Pitch Guy
Baseball teams aren’t hedge funds, Cohen is out of his element and it will be proven soon enough.
Aoe3
Similar to Jose Reyes but better in every way lol.. Great to see the Mets under good managment for once!
Orel Saxhiser
Not a Mets fan but I’m proud of them. Tonight changes the trajectory of the franchise. It turns out to be great timing, too, coming on the eve of a new season. I’ll flip on the Mets game as soon as the Dodgers game is over. Lindor and his teammates will be sky-high as they jump into a new era. Positive energy is good for the game. Really good for NY baseball fans as Mets-Yankees takes on a whole new look. The one-upmanship between the two franchises will be entertaining as heck.
Dorothy_Mantooth
If I were one of the owners discussing the next CBT, I’d say let’s get rid of the CBT (or move it way up to $300M and calculate annual increases based on total revenues), let the players have the DH in the NL and even set a MLB payroll floor (minimum) of $75M – $100M per team, along with expanding the playoffs and give a better revenue share to the players who make the playoffs. In lieu of all of this ‘give’ to the Union, the maximum length contract that can be signed is 5 years. I wonder how the players would respond to that? They could get massive 4-5 year deals, and teams could keep re-signing new 5 year deals every year if they wanted to extend the player but it’s time to put an end to these decade-long deals.
At the very least, let teams be able to buy out Year 6 & beyond of any contract 40-50% of the remaining contract value. Watching Pujols, Miggy and God forbid Chris Davis limp out there every day and embarrass themselves is painful as a baseball fan, but owners make them do it because they want them to ‘earn’ the money they are being paid on the back end of a long term deal. Let owners buy these last years out at a reduced rate. It would make the game so much better to watch and ensure that only the best players are on the field each day. I know this is a pipe dream with the MLBPA, but if they get all those perks on the front end, they’d have to give something back on the back end.
Orel Saxhiser
Even though I’m a Dodger fan, I LOVE the idea of expanded playoffs. Giving more teams a chance will change how teams are built. For one thing, it will put a halt on those dreary five-year plans that too many fans must endure. As a baseball fan, I loathe the idea of football taking over in September because most MLB teams are out of the race. Little by little, it allows fans to drift away from baseball. Giving more teams something to play is good for all teams, including a stacked team like the Dodgers. And for crying out loud, can Game of the Week broadcasters stop spending nine innings talking about what’s wrong with baseball? Telling people the sport they’re watching is defective will not grow the game. The NBA never did that and had enormous growth as a result.
Lurking
I’d be fine with the division winners+ 3 WC getting in or something. Maybe a 7th team allows for a bye in first round but it’s not really an advantage in baseball like it is in football or basketball
anything more than that, to me, it’s too many teams. Sub 500 teams getting a chance to get hot and win the title is kinda annoying after 162 games. Why play 162 hard?
Avory
It’s not just that, short series are not baseball. Pitchers are too determinative of outcomes and pushing pitchers hard in longer playoffs is only going to reduce their careers and penalize greatness. The long haul of the season has to have more reward than just an endless gauntlet of playoffs that do nothing to separate the wheat from the chaff. Baseball was unlucky in 2020; now they think expanded playoffs are no big deal because the best teams ended up in the World Series. But we just as easily could have had the Astros and Braves, or worse.
Orel Saxhiser
It’s not just about winning the World Series. Again, I am a Dodger fan and was 100% on board with expanded playoffs in 2020, even though my team was the best in the game and hadn’t won it all since 1988. Making the game more popular is what matters most. That’s what the people in charge should focus on, and I believe they are. Those people know a lot more about running the game than fans who pine for the “good old days.” Satchel Paige was right when he said “Don’t look back, someone may be gaining on you.” Move forward, not backward. My two passions are baseball and music. Both are better now than when I was a kid.
Avory
Music better? Hah! How would kids know today given what they listen to music on? No one possesses nice audio systems anymore, it’s a joke, and the musicality of music died along with the way it’s listened to. No need to even produce real music anymore.
As for baseball, more playoffs doesn’t equal more compelling baseball. It’s just a sop to the TV networks. And yeah, they really care about the game, do they?
Cap & Crunch
Woah woah woah woah ! You lived thru the 60’s and 70’s and are saying music is better now!!!
Ida given my left nut to be able to see Zeppelin Fleetwood Mac Beatles , Hendrix, Dylan, The Who, Petty etc live
Keithyim
Oh. So you’re just cranky about everything?
Samuel
Music better today?
LOL
Commercial country may be. It has replaced Rock ‘N Roll as at least being enjoyable to grow up with. Meaningful Rock was replaced with Madonna, then replaced by her imitators – meaningless drivel. R & B is dead, replaced by Rap / Hip Hop (when asked about it Keith Richards famously said, “It just goes to show how many tone deaf people there are out there”). Sorry, Michael Bublé does not sound just like Frank Sinatra; and no, Kenny G is not the flamboyant Benny Goodman.
Brian Wilson started putting out solo albums when he came back to record around 1987. No one in popular music has touched his stuff – which only a small audience listens to.
The Rolling Stones tour all over the world every few years. Still playing the same songs over and over, then releasing CD’s and Videos of them….playing the same songs over and over.
Do you think baseball today is being played better? LOL Think there might be a reason the Phillies got away from the stat-oriented / this years fad theory used by the FO to manipulate players into programmed robots playing for their stats – bringing back Joe Girardi, who has them playing solid fundamental team baseball (I like the Phillies for the NLE this year). Interesting that the White Sox elected to bring back Tony La Russa to get the young team in gear. Terry Francona has easily been the best manager in MLB the past 6-7 years – milking every last drop he can out of the talent his small market team can afford. (Craig Counsell may well be the next best manager, only a half-step behind – like Francona pouring over statistics, but demanding strong fundamental / traditional baseball be played….and of course Francona had Cox as a coach in Cleveland and helped bring him along – accepting that Cox had the ability to be a great manager).
If things were so good and we were turning the page, why do the Stones sell out concerts all over the world that are not full of cane toting, balding old people, but primarily people from their late 20’s to late 40’s? Why are older managers coming back to MLB, and winning? How long before the next team that gave out endless long-term contracts yet is not performing brings in Bruce Bochy? The Mets?
Yankee Clipper
Cey Hey has some very legitimate points that we cannot ignore. The management’s first priority, whether we like it or not, is about the growth of the game itself. And from the perspective of expanded playoffs (of which I am not a fan) he brings up an excellent point about football taking over thereby reducing the baseball audience.
Cap & Crunch had me rolling with the music narrative, so thank you fake that – and it’s true, except I like my left nut.
Samual: You’ve been on it lately, I must say. I agree with a lot of your points. Most of them, in fact. Nice job Sam.
Cap & Crunch
Samuels Councell’s assessment def shows me his guitar is in tune –
Couldn’t agree more
Captain-Judge99
The way I look at this contract is this way. If the Mets win 2 championships in the next 10 years. Then it was definitely worth it. Why shouldn’t they? Comforto might be next? But shouldn’t deGrom be? Yes, with a opt out after the season, he should definitely be the next priority.
Lurking
That could be the first real test of Cohen’s FO. Do they get trigger happy to get Conforto done and forget that DeGrom can opt out?
Before someone says teams don’t lose track of contracts coming up, Mookie Betts. I don’t think Cohen would “forget” to plan for DeGrom opting out, but we shall see. It’s a guy he won’t be asked about every day for extensions that’s likely true, so could easily be further back in his mind that DG can opt out
Mjshof
Lol Mets win two WS. Ain’t happening in any anticipated way. They are up against better teams built for more staying power over the next 3 to 5 years. That’s just in the NL with Atlanta, SD and LAD. Any given year in the next few could also see Miami, Philadelphia or Washington take a divisional title.
SwingtheFNbat
Nice signing for the Mets. I would of loved this deal if it were 8 years. But hey, those 2 extra years is why he signed, and kept him from free agency.
Vizionaire
THANKS, METS! Hopefully, angels can improve pitching this coming offseason!
diddlez
this is why you ask for 385 over 12 even when you know 325 over 10 is more than fair
Rsox
Takes probably the biggest name out of free agency next winter. Wonder what effect if any this will have on Correa/Baez as far as they’re own extensions go
RobM
It means everyone of them will expect a lot of money.
I rate Story ahead of Lindor.
This deal is more incentive for Correa to not sign an extension and go out and have a big year. Baez is more difficult to figure out.
RobM
Nothing surprising here. Lindor wanted more than Tatis in total value and that’s what he was going to get. Tack on an extra million and you have a deal. More surprising it took this long. Cohen was messing around with fans on Twitter the last few days, asking fans if Lindor would sign and what it would take. That was a clear sign a deal was about to be done.
It is a bit funny to see the same Mets fans who were outraged that Lindor wouldn’t accept the 10/325, saying the Mets should let him become a free agent, now saying this is a great deal.
All the other SS’s heading toward free agency after 2021 now have a baseline. A very high baseline.
justacubsfan
Want to scare the piss out of Mets fans?
Player A : 29.8 bWar (through first 6 seasons)
Player B: 28.8 bWar (through first 6 seasons)
Player A – new contract 8 years/184MM
Player B – new contract 10 years/341MM
Player A – Jason Heyward
Player B- Frankie Lindor
Both have great glove and pretty good offense… good luck mets if Lindor’s bat fades off a bit.
Avory
A very interesting comp…and shortstop skills age much faster than corner outfield skills.
OntariGro
Other than getting on base at around the same clip, with Heyward walking more, Lindor’s offense has Heyward’s beat pretty significantly. If Lindor’s bat fell off a bit, he’d be closer to pre-new contract Heyward than post-.
justacubsfan
bWar compiles most offensive stats to generate a number. To say heyward is beaten significantly, is flat out false.
OntariGro
“bWar compiles most offensive stats to generate a number.”
bWAR is determined thusly: baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_positio…
When I say significantly I mean that from their mutual age 21-26 seasons
Hits
Lindor 896
Heyward 782
Runs
Lindor 508
Heyward 424
Doubles
Lindor 191
Heyward 156
Triples
Lindor: 15
Heyward 17
HR
Lindor 138
Heyward 86
Total Bases
Lindor: 1531
Heyward: 1230
SB
Lindor 99
Heyward 86
BA
Lindor .285
Heyward .259
OBP
Lindor: .346
Heyward: .337
SLG
Lindor: .488
Heyward: .408
OPS
Lindor .833
Heyward .745
OPS+
Lindor: 117
Heyward 104
oWAR
Lindor 23.7
Heyward 12.7
I could do the average or per 162 games if you want.
1984wasntamanual
Unless I did the math wrong, through the first 6 season, both players have an oddly similar wRC+. So I’d disagree that Lindor has Heyward beat significantly.
Heyward – 117.64
Lindor- 118.03
PitcherMeRolling
He used like a dozen stats and you used one. Lol
justacubsfan
You’re selecting age ranges that different from what i have listed above. Compare first 6 seasons and try again. Their OPS+ and bWAR #’s are very similar.
justacubsfan
You did 21-26… that misses heyward’s rookie year and instead utilizes his first season with cubs. You should use heyward’s age 20-25 seasons and lindor’s 21-26.
OntariGro
And in these other semi-arbitrary groupings, less similar
Through Age 26 Season
Heyward 110.4
Lindor 118
Age 21-26 (Lindor debuted at 21)
Heyward 106.5
Lindor 118
All this ultimately to say this comparison doesn’t tell anyone much of anything, predictively at least.
justacubsfan
Here’s the math for their first 6 seasons (again, your original numbers weren’t correct)
Stats Jason Heyward Francisco Lindor
First 6 seasons Ages 20-25 Ages 21-26
Hits 804 896
Runs 446 508
Doubles 158 191
Triples 21 15
HR 97 138
Total Bases 1295 1531
SB 86 99
BA 0.268 0.285
SLG 0.431 0.488
OPS 0.784 0.833
OPS+ 114.6 117
For each’s new contract, the extra 10MM (estimated) annually gets you roughly 2.4 OPS+ a year,
***inflation not accounted for, positional differences not accounted for, but this is merely supposed to give the reader some kind of idea how this contract could go south if Lindor doesn’t keep up his bat. 10 year deals often are heavily reliant upon the first 5 years of production. Heyward was unable to keep his bat up. Lindor will need to keep his up for 5-6 years for this to not be a huge albatross. Not saying it’s impossible, but I would rather avoid 10 year contracts unless the player’s name is Trout.
MarlinsFanBase
@justaacubsfan
If you really want to scare the piss out of Mets fans, mention the deferred payments. I’m sure Bobby Bonilla called Frankie saying good job.
Make yo’ move Mets fans! We can be like the homeboys chillin’!
Ron Tingley
Arte Moreno thinks this is a good signing.. not sure why you want to handcuff your payroll for 10 tears so you have no flexibility in the future. Lindor is great but it’s not like he was a rookie last year.. Look how that Puljos deal is paying off. I think the Angels could use 2 15 million a year starters instead about now. I remember Heyward being a big get that off-season. Not to many options on the free agent front and he scored that once rare 100 million dollar contract. I felt the cubs overpaid, although they won a world series with little production from Heyward. I remember his big plus was he had a good eye at the plate and a strong arm. Goo Angels!
marcfrombrooklyn
We don’t normally do it, but any multi-year contract should probably be evaluated in terms of present value. Money paid down the road is worth less than money paid upfront. We incorrectly look only at deferrals as reducing the value of the contract when the fact that Lindor will be paid $32 million in the last few years is effectively a deferral of payment for the excess value he is expected to contribute the first few, the salary he’d earn on the market with a short-term deal. A contact paying him $1 million a year for nine years and $332 million in year ten is treated as the same with respect to deferrals as one paying $332 in year one and $1 million a year thereafter when they clearly aren’t. I would suggest that all contracts be calculated in terms of present value and perhaps use that to calculate AAV for competitive balance tax purposes. It would discourage games.
theodore glass
Avory the biggest Lindor hater here. Just stop the hate and enjoy the game.
its_happening
Mets will regret this deal. Congratulations to Lindor for getting paid.
Chris Hager
Wow, the Mets are one dumb organization.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
This is a massive overpay. People have been saying Mets made improvements this year but they make too many “now” deals for high risk injury players. They should start developing some talent.
mumsy01
Suck it haters. This is a legit top 10 player in the game. Yes, Defense counts. Mets are going to have to be reckoned with for years to come. Don’t let jealousy of our financial might keep you crying.
1984wasntamanual
Lindor was a top 10 player in 2018, but you’d have a harder time making the argument that he still is today and the mets are up against the luxury tax and still have multiple holes. Enjoy your alternate reality.
Lurking
It absolutely counts. It just doesn’t age very well. And tends to age quickly. And not necessarily on a linear path
And really top 10?! Hahaha stop that. You gotta hit to be inside the top 25
Treehouse22
To even come close to justifying a contract like this, a player needs a baseline of 30 HR, 20 SB, 100 Runs, 100 RBI, .300 BA, 380 OBP, 900 OPS, and in the gold glove conversation EVERY season. That is realistic for the next 3 years. After that………….
hwmorajr
I’m trying to figure out this math.
10 yrs $341M
$21M signing bonus
$320M
$50M deferral
Makes it 10 years for $270M
Which makes his AAS $27M not $32M
Which only ~4M than what he is making this year
Lurking
He doesn’t lose the 50M, it’s just paid later. If he’s smart like Scherzer, he negotiated interest on the deferrals
To use the backwards math you’re trying to use, you’d have to include the caveat that he will be paid 50M in X number of payments, every time you quote your figure. A little much
hwmorajr
I’m not saying he is
Losing Money. I wondering how it counts to the yearly salary. This report says 32 but if he has 50M in deferrals it should be at 27.
proof2006
$34mm per year to the tax. For tax purposes money is split evenly across all years.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
I don’t think anyone has said this yet: Congratulations to Anthony Franco on an extremely well-written article. Cheers!
baumrind973
So, if he gets a singing bonus, does he get to choose the song?
Seriously, a good deal for Lindor, and a good deal for the Mets (fir the first 7 years or so). He brings stability, confidence and can be the captain of the infield. I like this move
Captain-Judge99
@baumrind973- it’s a great deal for Lindor and the Mets. Not sure why people on here are saying it’s a horrible deal? Smh. There is no reason why Frankie can’t star for this franchise along with deGrom, Alonso and others. I wouldn’t of minded Lindor on the Yankees with this deal he just received.
statechamps0407
Glad we got the deal done… I hated giving up Gimnez without locking Lindor up long term bc I feel Gimnez will be a beast. Locking Lindor up makes the deal a good one I think… now if Carrasco can get healthy and we can lock up Conforto. LGM
Captain-Judge99
@statechamps0407- well, that was the problem all along really. Lindor should of never been traded to the Mets without an extension in the lst place. You give up prospects without a guarantee that the star player is staying with your franchise? Smh. That’s a horrible baseball decision, hopefully the Mets and other teams learn something from this.
metsie1
I love these messages. Why yesterday the Mets haters were rejoicing because it appeared the Mets and Lindor were at an “impasse”. Then “poof” after Steve Cohen’s billions settled the issue the same people are saying they “overpaid” or Lindor is “not that good”. I never saw so many people worried about Steve Cohen’s money in my life. Better settle in Mets haters, Cohen is in it to win it.
Captain-Judge99
@metsie1- this was an excellent move for both parties. Cohen is definitely proving that he’s trying to win by acquiring Lindor and signing him for the next 10 years. Look at Alonso’s comments yesterday saying “that he hope Lindor gets $400 million” Lol. Does it really matter for how much? He’s staying and the Mets and their fans should be thrilled.
rocky7
metsie1…agreed and even though I’m not a Mets fan, glad to see that they got their marquis statement player signed longterm….Lindor is a terrific, proven all star player…bravo to Steve Cohen and sure he’ll be giving my Yankees something to think about going forward.
You’re right about the NY haters on this site….they come out in droves hating anything Yankee or Met, and constantly accuse fans of everything short of the Kennedy assassination. The Mets have a good competitive team and management that will finally support the goal of winning it all….bring it on and let’s see how the season goes!
LetThereBeLux
It is still an overpay. But maybe that’s what they needed to do.
rocky7
Overpays are the way of MLB these days….they tell us its entertainment…better overpaying for an established star in his prime with a proven track record as compared to Tatis Jr which certainly an be more highly questioned given he has a whole 140+ games played in his career.
BeforeMcCourt
Tbf, those reactions could go hand in hand. For all the people “rejoicing” a few days ago, not many were saying “yay, now my team can pay him 325+ instead”
Personally, I felt 325 was an overpay and i was laughing at Lindor if he actually walked from that offer. Today, I can understand people laughing at Cohen. He bid 3x against himself, to set a positional record for a contract, and 3rd largest ever. How much was saved?
Truly it felt like the pressure to come thru on his promise to spend big bucks drove to an overpay. Maybe he still keeps conforto, Degrom & Thor so it doesn’t matter. But if he doesn’t, Cohen will quickly hear opinions he spent the money in the wrong place. Imo
We will see how far Cohens wallet goes. That’s what will determine if this is a bad deal or not. If he keeps spending, who cares? But if it impacts him fielding a competitive team year over year. That’s gonna hurt. Big market teams can afford 2-3 30M AAV players. But 4/5/6 is starting to get crazy. How far does he go?
cwsOverhaul
Most impressive part of the deal is this $21mil “Singing Bonus”. Wonder if Lindor’s vocal talents are more influenced by Ricky Martin or Jose Feliciano.
Viveleempireevil
This deal is going to go down in mets…and mlb history…as one of the worst ever. In two years, this guy becomes Robinson Cano…all over again. And, barring a dirty drug test like Cano, this is going to hang like a mill stone around them for 10+ years. Lindor is chronically over rated. He projects as .265 and 20/80 over time. So, he’s a grossly overpaid version of Javier Baez. LOL.
PitcherMeRolling
LFGM
Franco27
These long term guaranteed contracts are terrible for the teams. So many things can happen during a 10 year period that can make a player a shell of what he once was, and you are stuck with the contract.
Bustedstuff88
Have fun with your decade long noose NYM. Let me know how you feel about this 5 years from now!
jim stem
So much for the “impasse” in negotiations.
As a Mets fan, I hope he’s got the pride and responsibility to play as hard at 34+ as he did to get this contract. There aren’t many successful teams featuring 35, 36 and 37 year old shortstops. So hopefully he stays in shape, takes care of himself and will be willing to shift off shortstop when the time comes.
Now on to signing Michael Conforto!
BeforeMcCourt
Really, Lindor caved. He went from no deferrals to 50M deferred, just to get 16M more on the deal “officially”
Unless there’s interest built in, Cohen will pay less with the 341M deferred offer than the 325 flat one
JoeBrady
Congrats to both sides. Seems fair. I think Lindor is a bit overrated, but he’s been roughly a 5-6 WAR player before last year. Of course it will seem like an anchor 8 years from now, but it’ll look pretty good for at least the next 5.
MarlinsFanBase
Where are the comments from Mets fans that say that he signed with the Mets because he loves playing in NY or loves NY? Are Mets fans no longer posting those type of comments?
I can’t wait for the narrative spin at the press conference to offset the previous press conferences.
“I always wanted to play with the Mets.” “I always wanted to be in NY.” “I liked what the Mets are doing and I wanted to be a part of it.” “I never wanted to sign anywhere else.”
Am I missing any?
whynot 2
No one would ever claim that about playing for the Marlins
MarlinsFanBase
Maybe you should ask Carlos Delgado, Yoenis Cespedes, Al Leiter and Bobby Bonilla. While one of them never played for the Marlins, he did wait to get passed on by them before he returned back to the Mets. Two of them chose the Marlins over the Mets. And the 4th still gets paid by the Mets while he fishes off the Florida coast sporting his championship ring that gets him free entrance anywhere in South Florida.
nailz#4life
Bobby Bo has nothing on him….
I bet Frankie suffers some sort of early season injury that will slow him down or sit him out for a elongated amount of time. That would be so Mets like.
MarlinsFanBase
What truly would be Mets like is if he pulls off a Mo Vaughn for the next 10 years. And later it is discovered, like Vaughn, when Lindor got his payday, he stopped using whatever he was using.
Cohens_Wallet
I hated the Yankees back in the day just because they were dominant. Now? I respect the way they do business, no more hate.
The Mets aren’t even dominant yet and they still get the hate. Can you imagine what will happen when they are actually dominant? Lol
Hatorade much?
MarlinsFanBase
I guess the Mets being dominant is something that only exists in the imagination.
whynot 2
Know what is imaginary? the Marlins fan base.
D-Money
This is a TERRIBLE contract. The Mets will regret this signing when Lindor stops producing after the age of 30. Mets fan – Lindor’s best days were with the Tribe. You’ll still get the outstanding glove, but don’t count on that 30 to 40 home run production being there, nor the 280+ avg. Terrible contract. But I guess if you have the money…
Josip Tomic
Agree!
Ryan W
He may think he won, but Tatis will actually churn out more with non-deferred money and all of the other deals Tatis has (BMW, Adidas, etc)
BrianInWI
I expect Lindor will soon match Tatis in endorsement money as well. Is there a more marketable sports star in the NYC market right now?
Harden/Durant/Irving are the only ones I can think of who come close to Lindor’s high-wattage star power.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Lindor will kill it and cash in the NY baseball market. Aaron Judge may be more popular now but there’s no guarantee that he’ll still be a Yankee in three or four years.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I think A A Rom Judge goes west and makes Oakland Coliseum look tiny. It won’t be mega deal. If rhat there then depending on the money on the books San Diego Friars. I have a feeling the NL will have a DH by then.
Bassman7455
So how exactly do I send this to the Cubs front office staff?? Just wondering….
MarlinsFanBase
So, the Mets first game is now postponed today due to Covid protocols related to the Nats.
@MetsFan22 will now start collecting his excuses. Shall we keep count?
1 – Carrasco down
2 – Mets couldn’t play their first game on the day that it was scheduled.
Josip Tomic
Hi Anthony,
Can you fix the spelling of the word ‘singing’? It should be ‘signing’ not ‘singing’. Please fix it. Please & thank you!
“Lindor will be paid a $21MM ‘singing’ bonus, followed by flat $32MM salaries in each year of the deal.”
BrianInWI
I hear Lindor has a helluva set of pipes. His rendition of “Preciosa” will bring tears to your eyes.
Josip Tomic
Anthony, can you please change the word from ‘singing’ to ‘signing’?
Josip Tomic
Hi Anthony,
I’m not sure if you read my message 4 days ago, but my question is can you please change the word from ‘singing’ to ‘signing’ between ‘$21MM’ & ‘bonus’?
“Lindor will be paid a $21MM ‘singing’ bonus”
BrianInWI
LOL at all the Robinson Cano comparisons. If Lindor replicates Cano’s age 27-32 seasons, Mets fans will consider this contract well worth it, no matter how the last 5 years play out. Especially if it brings a title to Queens during that run.
Marcus Graham
If Cohen is still alive and even if he isn’t, it won’t affect him
whyhayzee
Omar Vizquel, Ozzie Smith, Cal Ripken, Derek Jeter, Larry Bowa, Jimmy Rollins, Luis Aparicio, Dave Concepcion, Alan Trammel, Edgar Renteria, Barry Larkin, Bert Campaneris. I’ve seen all of them play.
Good shortstops have tended to be pretty capable of having long careers.
Dutch Vander Linde
I don’t understand these Mets fans, the team extends Lindor and they saying they gave him too much. But before they were saying if they don’t extend him and give him whatever he asks by they’re gonna drop the ball. C’mon man make up ya minds
BXMETS
Most Mets fans are happy w this extension, myself included. EVERY long term deal is an overpay, it has to happen to sign big time FA. The comparison to Tatis is irrelevant, it’s not like the Mets could sign Tatis if they passed on Lindor. Also, 27 is young, this contract should look great for awhile and I don’t think Cohen will allow this to hinder other extensions, like Conforto and Syndergaard. When he became owner he emphasized retaining the core and winning a WS within 3-5 years. That wouldn’t be possible if he put all of his eggs in one basket. I think he’s willing to spend. Let’s see how it goes before making assumptions. So far so good in my opinion.
Kellen66
Scrolling through MLBTR, I actually read Lindor’s name as “Francisco Liriano” and was very confused.
kendrick
Lindor is good ( I believe best SS in the league )but some players get more then they actually deserve according to their skill level. PROMOTION. ADVERTISEMENTS.
zappaforprez
When this deal is over, they’ll STILL be paying Bobby Bonilla.
Le Grande Orangerie
Highly under-rated tweet,.
Dorn’s Contract
Indians fans will always miss you. This one stings. Feels worse than losing Belle, Thome, Sabathia, Manny, Santana (twice), Lee, vizquel, Lofton, and others. Ughhh, that list makes me want to barf. Go tribe!
BrianInWI
He’s not Lindor, but enjoy Gimenez. He’s going to be very, very good. Isiah Greene and Josh Wolf have a lot of potential, too.
Cleveland got a good return, at least.
Bill M
Yup, agree. Great to have Lindor in NYC, but Gimenez looks like the real deal.
cgallant
Lol deferred money
Cohens_Wallet
Lol we got him.
butch779988
As the Red Sox start planning for life after Bogaerts.
neurogame
$341 Million, guaranteed – Mr. Smile indeed.