10:41pm: If the league attempts to punish Bauer, the union “would challenge any discipline not covered under current rules,” Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times tweets.
8:09pm: Major League Baseball announced last month that it plans to crack down on pitchers doctoring baseballs. Now, one of the game’s highest-profile pitchers, Dodgers right-hander Trevor Bauer, is under the league’s microscope, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports.
Bauer started against the Athletics on Wednesday, when he yielded two earned runs on 10 strikeouts in 6 2/3 innings. The umpires from that game have since collected multiple “suspicious baseballs” that Bauer threw, according to Rosenthal, who writes that they “had visible markings and were sticky.” As Rosenthal notes, though, the league may not be able to prove whether it was Bauer who doctored the ball, so it’s unclear whether it will discipline him.
Of course, the fact that the league’s looking at Bauer is especially intriguing when considering some of the past comments the outspoken 30-year-old has made in regards to potential cheating. He accused Astros pitchers of using illegal means in 2018 in an effort to increase their spin rate, and he then called the team “hypocrites” and “cheaters” last year.
Bauer had a career campaign in 2020 as a member of the Reds, with whom he won the National Cy Young, before signing a three-year, $102MM guarantee with the Dodgers in free agency. The returns so far have been promising, as Bauer has posted 20 strikeouts against three walks while giving up six runs on six hits in 13 innings, though this latest development is unwelcome for him and the Dodgers.
Wow. What a cheater.
He was probably messing the balls up with his drone
Fever Pitch Guy
This is a guy that had a 4.48 ERA his last full season, and prior to 2020 had an ERA under 4.18 only once, but he still gets a 9-figure contract based on just 73 IP during a joke of a 2020 season? Only in MLB!
Don’t forget only three of his starts were against teams with winning records. Two against the Cubs, one against the White Sox.
And the Braves
At first glance I transposed the words “the” and “his”
It will be interesting to see what happens to him and Cole if they actually enforce this.
After ignoring the issue for years, the MLB starts cracking down on the very person who illustrated to everyone what a joke the MLB was at stopping this. This is not an attempt to stop cheating. This is a retaliation move to harm the one that embarrassed the MLB. If Bauer faces one game of suspension for this, and not one Astro did, it just further adds to the incompetency that is Manfred.
its a lot easier to prove this then that any Astro hitter in specific cheated. that’s just a fact.
Bingo! And we have a winner!
They ignored it because nobody cared. It’s the same reason they ignored greenies in the 60s and 70s. Most everyone used, it was done in the open. No one considered it gaining an unfair advantage…AKA, cheating
Hitters get to use:
Pitchers can utilize everything you have listed other than the pine tar…
Crisco; Bardol; Vagisil. Any one of them will give you another two to three inches drop on your curve ball. ‘Course if the umps are watching me real close I just rub a little jalapeno juice up my nose, get it runnin’, and if I need to load the ball up I just…wipe my nose.
But Manfred shortened the average game by 10 minutes. He’s a hero and he revolutionizd the game. HA!
“Bingo! And we have a winner!” of the maroon of the night award.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Same with PEDs.
I kinda side with @Nebraska on this. It’s retaliation on MLB’s part towards Bauer. What’s telling is how many *hitters* don’t want MLB messing with this.
I’m not sure Manfred could piss us all off more if he actually tried to.
Best comment of the year
That sir…is a fact. More egg on their face,and well deserved.
How hard is “granting immunity” to comprehend for some people? If they don’t, not one Astro player would’ve said a word.
It’s so funny how none of the 2017 Astros that are currently on different rosters get boo’d at games, but non-2017 Astros that currently play for them do. It’s like…. people don’t actually care, but want to just have something to be mad at. Morons.
I’m sure the trashcan drumming was just for the sake of the audience.
I understand the idea of offering immunity but i would have liked to see them first attempt to get info without putting that on the table. Immunity was immediately offered. I think they could have just gone after the guy in the hallway who relayed the signs. Then if no one spoke, then offer up immunity one by one.
I spoke with fergie jenkins about this exact thing, he claims every pitcher used a foreign substance, if you weren’t you were left behind there’s a reason they pitched 300 innings every year it wasent about being durable.
Bauer admitted that he technically cheats. I don’t think punishing him is a good idea, especially if it’s as common as we think. After all, that would mean most pitchers are cheating.
Umm… Video evidence of a banging trash can vs a ball that may or may not be sticky? I think you’re wrong there.
It doesn’t matter if Bauer names names. MLB would still have to prove it by catching them actually doing it. That means that they can STOP before MLB starts looking at them. That may be the purpose of this whole thing.
@Cam….Are there 52 cards in your deck? Please ensure all your nuts are tightened and not stripped. And if you’re on a boat….2 oars in the water please-no going in circles.
You put snot on the ball?!?
Steven St Croix
@steve nebraska, stop! It’s not like they are going to take his Cy away. He is a tool and with comments like that, you should know your own.
Bauer still deserves to be stopped for being a hypocrite and taking up cheating while talking against it. I wouldn’t have blamed him much for cheating like everyone else when the league ignores it, but you can’t claim the high ground and have it both ways.
Steven St Croix
Also, Manfried is a bia!
So you are ignoring the sound of banging on trash cans?
Agreed. And he destroyed the game. No Loogys stupid 7 inning double headers and stupid tie game rule. This guy can’t leave soon enough.
So that’s why nationals vs Mets was postponed!
the major league reference is awesome: JOBU needs a refill!!
one of the major league reference and by the way Jobu needs a refill
Really? I have never ever seen a pitcher use Batting Gloves, Elbow Guards, Shin Guards or Helmets when they pitch.
You put snot on the ball?!?
If 100 MLBTR commenters were asked whether they believe Rob Manfred is self-employed, 98 would answer yes or not sure.
You use snot on the ball lol, great line and great movie
“I haven’t got an arm like yours kid…”
I was so hoping that they would have had Harris character some how in the other Major League movies. Hey bartender Joe bu needs a refill lol.
If anything, helmets, shin guards and elbow guards hinder the ability to hit. Also, pitchers are able to wear protective equipment as long as it doesn’t interfere with the batter seeing the baseball. Pine tar and batting gloves help with gripping a bat, but don’t make you make contact or make you hit the ball harder or farther. On the other hand, the substances bauer is being accused of using help with spin rate which in a way would be similar to hitters on steroids.
For right or wrong, greenies were medically supervised out in the open. Please stop comparing hidden cheating attempts to what the world knew and accepted then as part of the game.
Mcmillan an arm guard for pitchers on the mound? That is utilized? You and your 4 upvoters missed that one…
Um, Astros players admitted they cheated in exchange for immunity/impunity.
And punish the team with 40 draft picks lost, instead of 4, and a three year IFA spending ban.
Pitchers can wear helmets shin guards elbow sleeves
There was only video and audio evidence of Astros hitters cheating
You forgot the runner on second rule. But yes, every single one of these rules suck.
Lee Mazzilli for HOF
Crisco vagasile what ever I can find.
Manfred is a terrible commissioner and is ruining baseball. I would love for them to poll baseball fans on what they think of him.
@afsooner02.. You put snot on the ball?
Players union woulda gone apoplectic
Rosin and sunscreen are both legal.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Snot is a highly underrated baseball substance. It’s – for example – what Cal Ripken Jr used for his “strained quads”. He’d rub some snot on it & then go out and go 2-4.
its been obvious he was doctoring the ball last season considering he’s only had one season under 3 era. you don’t make that kind of jump on era without help (aka cheat).
Except the Astros players admitted they cheated to mlb investigators because they were given immunity.
I doubt greenies were as wide-spread as rumored. Amphetamines, at best, are a short-term solution. You pop one before a game, and you are likely still up at 3 AM. Maybe a starting pitcher could get away with it. They would feel it the next day, but be over it two days later.
If a hitter tried it on a Monday night, he’d be feeling it on Tuesday night. He could pop another, but amphetamines are also addictive. I could see maybe a Sunday afternoon game, after a Saturday night game, with a Monday off. But I doubt anyone could continually pop amphetamines over a 180-day season.
I came to the comments to write this, almost verbatim. Thank you Steve Nebraska. Also, if it hasn’t been said before, great movie… majorly underrated sports movie there.
@Ducky.. I was replying to the “Major League ” reference from afsooner. My reply was the next line in the movie.
As far as the chat forum we discussed yesterday, I’m having some trouble locating it but try these two things.
If that doesn’t work, try asking the question during the Friday members chat. You should have been sent an email with the chat link.
Greenies were medically supervised? Are you serious? Dude, they used to put them in the coffee. They had labeled pots. Leaded and Unleaded. So the coaches wouldn’t accidentally drink 16 ounces of amphetimines and have a heart attack in the dugout.
WRONG, BATTING GLOVES AND PINE TAR “DO” HELP YOU MAKE BETTER CONTACT. WHY ELSE WOULD YOU USE THEM? ITS CALLED “GRIP”
Ducky Buckin Fent
I was just (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to up the ante, @Joe.
Mr Dierkes sent me a link to it. You have to download something & then it’s goodtogo. I’m muddling forward through it.
You put snot on the baseball?
yes. grip on the handle, not the barrel. do you know what happens when a batter uses too much pine tar up the barrel of the bat? ask george brett how that worked out for him…
Batters cannot use pine tar on the operative part of the bat– the part that meets the ball. Pitchers similarly are allowed to use pine tar on any part of the ball that doesn’t meet the bat. However, the latter set happens to be empty.
Joe, supposedly greenies were in bowls on tables for players to take. Team doctors prescribed them. it’s not like getting a package in a plain brown wrapper delivered or getting the drugs in a bathroom stall behind closed doors.
What do the two have to do with one another? One is physically doctoring a ball, the other was figuring out what the pitcher was throwing. Doctoring a ball is way worse!
Joe, supposedly greenies were in bowls on tables for players to take.
I assume they were easy to get. The issue is actually using them. Think of it terms of the local bank. If you were out on Thursday night, and had an important, early Friday morning meeting, you’d probably be okay to use a mild stimulant.
But if you used them everyday for 6 months, I don’t think there is any chance you’d survive. It’s not like you are getting jacked up for exactly three hours. You’d likely spend a few hours at the bar trying to sedate yourself so you could sleep.
Or, thought of from another perspective, if there were no side effects, folks would be dropping them like they were Pez.
What do the two have to do with one another?
They have nothing to do with each other. Doctoring the baseball is more like corking the bat, or using an aluminum bat.
You’re almost 100% totally incorrect.
If a pitcher wore any of the things listed to the mound they would be immediately required to take them off.
Helmets, batting gloves, shin guards and elbow pads don’t help a hitter?!?! Try getting in the box facing 95-100 mph up and in fastball with no protection and see how quickly you you bail out. If the batters use pine tar let the pitchers. I like seeing that much movement on the ball.
Michael Conforto made good use of an elbow guard yesterday, leaning in to take a pitch off the elbow guard in bottom of the ninth of a tied game with bases loaded. Mets won in a walk-off. Or should it be called a HBP-off?
It was obvious that Conforto tried to get hit. (Not a reviewable call.) What I want to know is if the manager told him to do it.
“You put snot on the ball?”
They can, Mcm, but batters stand to gain an advantage with all that protective gear: they can hang in the box a lot longer, crowd the plate, without a fear of being injured. It is a clear tactical advantage.
A pitcher on the other hand, not only gains no pitching advantage from wearing protective gear, they are actually impeded by all the extra gear, as fluidity of their arm motion would be hindered if wearing anything n their elbows or head.
I’m not saying I support the use of foreign substances by pitchers, just that your response to the comment is flawed.
I’m not sure the comment is flawless either of course. Because i’m not sure the two situations (pitcher vs hitter, and use of gear) is exactly a 1:1 comparison.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Well, if a fella like you or I took them – yeah – we’d probably be wrecked by it.
I have a sales guy who is prescribed adderall (no he’s not Chris Davis) which is generally considered to be a strong stimulant. However, because he takes it daily it’s effect on him is akin to a cup of coffee for me.
If greenies were as ubiquitous as it seems, I think it’d be similar to that.
No it’s not because they have actual video of it
This a quote from major leagues?
Even if it is retaliation, Bauer is a giant hypocrite so I am completely fine with him being outed as such
Exactly this guy is the personification of the word hypocrite. A headcase to boot and to think some self described true fans wish the Jays had paid 45 million per for him.
I think you may be underestimating the human body’s ability to adjust to the everyday use of an addictive drug. I’ve known folks who’ve basically been drunk without a break for over a decade. I’ve know daily users of low grade speed. It’s unhealthy but survivable and doable for quite a while.
Well, it proves your lack of understanding the rules. Not much else.
Doctoring the ball is against the rules. That is in the CBA. So are the penalties. Most have been in there for decades.
Before the 2020 season MLB sent out a memo to teams letting them know that they would be enforcing the rules. There were fines last year.
Before this season MLB sent out another memo reiterating that doctoring the ball is against the rules and letting players and teams know that not only would players face penalties, but team personnel could also face penalties. They also indicated that they would be utilizing new technology that has now been installed in every major league ballpark to measure spin rate and use increases in spin rate as an indication of the use of foreign substances on the ball.
What the Astros players did in 2017 was not against the rules. It was not in the CBA. Since there was no rule against it in the CBA, there could not be penalties.
In 2018 it was added to the CBA and if teams used a similar system today then Manfred could issue a penalty to players. For what the Astros, Yankees, and Red Sox players (among others) did in 2017 it would literally have been against federal labor law to levy penalties.
So before you lash out against Manfred, at least get a basic understanding of the situation.
@halos11fan MLB ignored greenies in the 1960s and early 1970s because they were not against the law and they were not against the rules of the game. Once they were, they were included in drugs of abuse and you could be suspended for use.
Using a foreign substance on a ball has been against the rules for decades.
That decreases spin rate. MLB is looking for increased spin rate.
That is on the umpire, not MLB. The umpires job is to enforce the rule that the batter must attempt to get out of the way of the ball.
One. One batter has been quoted as saying that in cold weather games he would prefer that pitchers had some way to get a better grip on the ball.
Key words, cold weather. That does not include LA where Bauer plays or any game after April anywhere.
Its interesting that Manfred never mentioned immunity, the media did. The fact is that electronic sign stealing was not against the rules as far as the CBA so players could not be punished at all. That is not because of MLB rules, its because of federal labor laws.
Just a little outside…..
You put snot on the ball?!?
Ducky Buckin Fent
Fellas! Look! Look!
Manfred has a burner on MLBTR! Think he’d’ve at least paid for a membership. Just something else to be disappointed in him about…
Ya I could of sworn he flat out admitted to know what he was doing. Bauer being Bauer
They lowered the mound too. Pitchers are at a disadvantage because everyone wants offense not no hitters.
There will be a lock out or a strike next year so just wait….
It’s actually pretty easy to prove since the Astros publically apologized for it
Bang. Bangbang bang. Bang
And many others too.
Fever Pitch Guy
Even if MLB gets solid proof, they won’t do squat. Probably just a short, token suspension. After giving Cora just 60 games for what he did in Houston, I have zero faith in MLB going forward.
Trevor Bauer: “have you seen my baseball”
Fever Pitch Guy
LOL …. great TSAM reference, how I love that movie!
Click Bait. Fake news.
“Stick it to him”
Wow, you’re fool who doesn’t even wait for basic evidence to come forward. Shouldn’t you at least wait until the league says that something was found on the ball? I’ll remember your name for when the site implements the mute button. What a biased hater you are.
This is the same Trevor Bauer that put up videos on his channel of him promoting certain substances because they’re clear and they work better. This dude uses grip and everyone knows it. Now go after all the other high profile names; don’t just out Bauer.
Let’s go Bauer!
Pelican grip dip grip like a pro with pelican grip dip Trevor Bauer:2019
It’s finally coming down. I think Garrit Cole is next. That will be followed by many more pitchers. I have no problem with baseball eliminating foreign substances as long as they also eliminate umpires “interpreting” the strike zone. I watched Freddie Freeman and Ronald Acuna, Jr. strike out in the 9th inning of a one run game. Both pitches were taken and they were both well out of the strike zone. We need computers to tell umpires what the calls are because the computers are more accurate. Don’t get rid of the ump. Just stop them from making bogus calls because it’s late in the game and they want to go home instead of taking it to extra innings.
@nmendoza7- this article isn’t about Gerrit Cole. It’s about Trevor Bauer remember? Smh
Cole throws 98. I love how people think that pine tar is what makes him a great pitcher. If you take pine tar away from EVERYBODY, and not just Gerrit Cole, then Gerrit Cole is still going to be a better pitcher than the vast majority.
If you take pine tar away from Cole, but let everybody on Tampa use whatever they’ve been using for the last decade, then he’ll be moderately worse, and your point of comparison will be a league full of guys who are allowed to cheat.
manfraud won’t touch him. yankees rule baseball. or every recent commissioner thought they should.
@Visionaire- Ther is no validity with your statement. If Gerrit was or is cheating he would be held accountable by Manfred just like everybody else. There is no Special Yankee like your stating. So put that talk to rest.
What have the Yankees ruled in the last 12 years? They have ruled NO WORLD SERIES APPEARANCES. in the past 12 years.
The bottom line. The Yankees get preference because they make more money. If you only look at on field results, you are missing the bigger picture.
Give some examples
The umpires are getting worse and worse every year to the point that they are nothing but a complete joke. And the worst part about it is that there is absolutely no accountability. These guys do horrible jobs….especially calling balls and strikes, and then they’re back behind the plate again in a few days to do it again. I love it when the announcers call them out….only to have the pathetic MLB office fine the announcer for saying such TRUE things.
MLB has proven to be nothing but a disgrace with the way they handle these guys. If an ump sucks time and time again, they should be demoted or fired like in any other profession. I’m so sick of watching clowns like Joe West, Angel Hernandez, CB Bucknor, Phil Cuzzi, etc ruin games with their arrogant self entitled attitudes and complete incompetence. I mean seriously, how do these guys still have jobs? In any other line of work they would have been fired long ago. They know that there aren’t any consequences, so what do they care. I cannot wait for robot umpiring to take away that power from these fools. Then of course the best part is when the umpires are the ones to encite trouble and make the game all about themselves. These horrible umpires are the equivalent or bad cops on power trips, and MLB should be ashamed of themselves for letting it continue to go on like it has. It’s just disgusting.
There are several reasons that MLB has gone from America’s Pastime and top sport to a distant 3rd, and their total lack of control over their umpires is one of the keys, in my opinion. I actually had to turn off a game recently in which CB Bucknor was calling the balls/strikes because he was so horrible that it pissed me off. It’s just not worth watching anymore when that crap is going on.
This is just about the funniest post I almost got through. As if the game was invented just last week.
Like government employees and ML players, the Umpires have a Union.
It is next to impossible to even discipline them, let alone fire them.
One they’re in, they get paid for showing up, and that’s that. Deal with it.
Dude, the reason Baseball has slipped to third is this:
They let a bunch of accountants and statisticians dictate how the game is played. The “pace of play” issues that turn off fans are 100% driven by the statistical obsession with walks and home runs, the acceptance of strikeouts and the refusal to play fundamental, situational baseball or put the ball in play.
Coincidentally, it’s also the reason pitchers drop like flies.
What good is employing a strategy that “statistically” leads to more runs being scored… if nobody in their right mind wants to watch those runs scored?
2 of the last 4 years I haven’t followed MLB for mostly the reasons that you wrote (and I have elsewhere). The hiring of MBA’s to run front offices with no experience in baseball (i.e.. start at the top) did it. The numbers they crunch basically show the arbitrage factor is while a batter K’s on 3 strikes and walks on 4 balls, he still has the advantage over the pitcher because he can hit endless foul balls and he doesn’t pay a price.
The last few days I’ve been watching games on MLB.TV. Last night I turned off 3 games within 2 innings because they were so boring. I find myself starting at the screen (I have to turn down the broadcasters because they make mountains out of molehills) for 5-10 minutes at a time in a catatonic state, then realizing that 2 guys are now on base and I have no idea how they got there. I have to go back and replay their PA’s. It’s impossible to concentrate through the endless AB’s waiting for some action to occur.
Am thinking of cancelling the subscription. Again. Will try to stay with it, but at this point getting through the year is a long shot.
For those who haven’t picked up on the point, fans have been complaining about umpires since Grover Cleveland was president. For anyone who believes this is a new issue, or it has changed in some way recently, that’s nothing more than a born yesterday problem. It is certainly not a problem with the game or a new one with the officiating.
You can choose to deal with the incompetence and accept it if you wish, but I guarantee you that you are in a very small minority of people who don’t care about it. I understand about unions, as does anyone beyond the 3rd grade, but they’ve had to re-negotiate contracts with the umpires union plenty of times over the last few decades and have chosen to allow it to continue.
I cannot wait for the mute button so I don’t have to listen to immature people who feel the need to leave smart a** comments in every response they make. You’re at the top of my list.
I’m happy to hear you enjoy Angel Hernandez and Joe West. Must drive you crazy hearing all the massive multi-media coverage about how horrible they are over the last 10+ years. Tons of videos on U-Tube about it. Guess were all just idiots and you’re the smart one.
@KCJ. Some have an awareness of the long history of the game and others don’t. Some know that baseball has always been a game played by and officiated by human beings. Others who are unaware of either of these things believe baseball won’t be perfected until it’s been turned into a video game. I’ve always known this was the case, so there really wasn’t any need for you to prove it. I was just pointing it out.
@KCJ Dont worry about balls and strikes. MLB will have robo umps next season. They already have the approval of the umpires union and it will be added to the next CBA with the players for .
@Blue, while the problem may be as old as Grover Cleveland (or older), back in GC’s time we didn’t have access to the replay and K-zone and tools like that. These are what further prove the ineptitude of the umps; prior to this, they could always say “well I had the best view of that pitch, not you guys sitting at home or in the stands.” Now, that is completely taken away due to video and tech.
Anyone catch the Mets game today? Umpire calls strike 3, but Conforto leans over the plate and into the ball and got clipped. Walk off hit by pitch. Yet the umpire had called it a strike! Dude leaned over the plate and kept extending his elbow to intentionally get hit. Looked like the umpire wanted no part of extra innings. Mattingly was furious, but to no avail.
I didn’t see it, but I heard the Mariners’ announcers talking about it. The umpire said he made a mistake and should have called him out when he leaned in to get hit.
They reviewed the play, but all they are allowed to review is whether or not the ball hit him – not whether or not he tried to avoid it. That’s something that, hopefully, they will fix in the reviewing rules.
Cant wait till you see what happens when they implement this. Not sure it was you talking about rule changes but if you think those were drastic or undermined the game?
Wait till you see what happens when you remove the corners for pitchers. You guys think pitchers can really nail the corner from 60’6 or do you think theyre more in the general area? Its hard enough being a pitcher. The game will switch drastically to a hitters sport. You’re also removing the catcher role and umpire role to nothing but fodder as no longer is there framing or anything of the sort
If it doesnt happen immediately, with the analytic driven world i guarantee you teams will tell players to take (cause pitchers cant throw strikes) OR it forces pitchers inside the zone. When pitchers no longer get that generous zone, hitters will force them to throw it on the plate. Offense will increase and kill any of the “pace of play” measures everybody had [apparently] been complaining about
I think we’re already there, startinglineup. All this also contributes to the arm injuries we are seeing on the mound. Not all of it, but a contributor nonetheless.
“You’re also removing the catcher role”
yours might be the dumbest comment of the day, but there are a lot of contenders in this thread.
He was referring to auto strike zone, Willis. But thanks for not following along. Your comment takes top spot in the dumb category you just assembled.
Remember how he tweeted about “pulling a Gerrit Cole” and magically increasing his spin rate by a decent amount?
Looks like he pulled a Gerrit Cole
You think he just started this year?
Rangers29, how many outs, foul balls, singles, doubles and triples would turn into home runs for Odor in Yankee Stadium? I feel like Odor could hit a lot of homers there as a starting 2nd baseman with his swing and the Yankee Stadium dimensions.
bold of you to assume Odor puts the ball in play
Approximately 0. People don’t know this, but Odor only hits HR’s. No single, doubles, or fly outs. It is either HR or K. That’s it. You’d think I’m exaggerating, but he is like a two true outcomes hitter. He’s really bad, and if he can manage to get either singles or doubles, y’all should be ecstatic.
Rangers29 is spot on. Odor is horrific. Bottom five player in the AL. Thrilled that he is no longer with the Rangers.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Which I hear loud & clear. You fellas are just a little too excited about getting rid of him.
Haven’t seen a single, “I was hoping he’d turn it around this year” take from any Rangers fans.
Cash just has a really good track record with these kind of players. So I have to believe they see something they feel is correctable.
It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, that’s for sure.
Maybe they trade Torres and move DJ to SS so Odor can play second base, if they can fix Odor? I honestly have no idea what the Yankees got in mind.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Hey, @Goastros –
I think they see him as merely a potential bench bat. I’m guessing we’ll see him getting some reps at first.
DJ hasn’t played SS since he was in MiLB.
I don’t think Gleyber going anywhere either.
If Cashman didn’t have such a strong track record with these types of position player acquisitions I’d probably be one of those posters really questioning this. I don’t care for the “appeal to authority” argument but Cash has struck gold a bunch of times with castoffs.
What’s up, Ducky. I guess we’ll see what happens. Some Yankees fans are unhappy with Torres’s ability to play shortstop.
It seemed like the Andrus and Odor extensions were foreshadowing that maybe JD should find a new GM….and get a “loyalty promotion.” I know-this is off topic-but part of the thread did sort of go in the the Odor-TX direction.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Oh, I know they are, @Goastros.
He’s 24 & hasn’t played a full season at SS yet. I figure give him the year see how he looks. If it’s untenable then address it next winter. & – barring last night – he’s looked…mmmm, I’d say ok at least.
I love my fellow Yankees fans but we’re not particularly known for being all that patient.
Well, trust the process. I’m sure the Yankees will at least go to the ALCS. Maybe Odor ends up playing a factor in that.
DJ is not a SS.
The spelling of his last name tells you how he has been playing for the past few years.
This should be one of the equipment slots on mlb the show 21. Pine tar is bronze and the clear substance he uses can be the diamond level
Based on your username I’ll ask if you’re Daddy Dimmu because I’m not in the mood to search “bigdaddy” in YT rn.
Anyways, I’d be down for that equipment slot lol.
Are you guys the elite lynch mob? This is MLB collecting random sample balls. Bauer’s game balls among many others across MLB probably happened to raise red flags. We all know this is prevalent. If you want fairness, that random #5 pitcher who had happened to break camp with their team needs to be disciplined as well if any. MLB won’t do anything for now but is taking the issue seriously which is good.
Get ready for his era to balloon.
Could it be that Manfred wants to hold down the earning power of premium pitchers? No better way to do that than to cause the spin rate and AAV king to fall flat on his face right after he signs his huge deal.
It’s already pretty bad for an “elite” pitcher.
Grip used for handling purposes is the same as pine tar on the bat. Something however used to otherwise alter the throw of the ball is more like corking a bat and should be heavily enforced. The fact that Gaylord Perry and other s got away with doing stuff to the ball is irrelevant. Mom taught me young that two wrongs may equal a lot of money but it doesn’t make it right.
Start with Bauer. He was the one stupid enough to put out videos telling exactly how he cheats.
Then if that does not deter others, go after them too.
Sticky situation for Bauer.
I mean, correct me if I’m wrong but every time a ball is hit, fouled etc. the catcher grabs a new ball from the ump, who then throws it to Bauer. Unless Bauer has something funky hidden in his glove he has no control over what balls he gets so how could he doctor them? It would be quite ballsy (for lack of a better term) to doctor them live during the game on the mound. Could it not be just pine far from a bat?
PItchers do it constantly. Some more blatantly than others.
in the 06 ws iirc kenny rodgers was called out by tlr for using “stuff” but nothing really happened other than the ump inspected rodgers pitching hand and would of been unnoticed until the announcers brought it up. long story short i don’t mind if pitchers “doctor the ball” as long as they do it on the field. i don’t mind players cheating a bit as long as both teams have the ability to cheat the same way (i.e. like doctoring a ball) but when using tech in your home stadium to get an edge unless your going to let the visiting team to use the same tech imo that’s going to far.
The thing, Kenny Rogers knew when to fold ‘em. That’s what nothing ever came of it.
And the pitchers who didn’t cheat were at a big disadvantage. Their numbers were worse and missed out on getting big contracts
Exactly!!!!! Does anyone think that there isn’t one pitcher that doesn’t doctor the ball when he pitches. Like the old saying goes “If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying”
^Yes, been the story of the game. Change the rules, change the cheats. The spitball was legal until 1920, partially legal until 1934. In 1955 Commissioner Ford Frick unsuccessfully advocated removing the ban.
It seems that ‘substances’ either on the ball or in players has always been a part of the game, which occasionally has fans ‘shocked, shocked’ to discover this.
Frankly Gaylord Perry turned hiding his goo into part of the entertainment, watching him pitch was like watching an expert 3 card monte dealer.
Fines should be issued if there is proof, but for a good crook there usually is none.
see: Kikuchi’s hat
It’s very easy for a pitcher to take pine tar out to mound or put pine tar on his hands prior to taking the mound.
Fever Pitch Guy
As requested, sorry but you’re wrong. Throughout the history of baseball, pitchers who have cheated did so while on the field (near or on the mound). New York Yankee Michael Pineda got caught using pine tar twice, first with it on the palm of his hand and then another game on his neck. He used his hands to transfer it to the balls. Brendan Donnelly, Jay Howell and Joel Peralta had pine tar inside their gloves, making it very difficult for cameras to pick up. Julian Tavarez had pine tar on his hat, and would touch it and then touch the balls. Joe Niekro had an emery board in his pocket that he used on baseballs. Kevin Gross had sandpaper in his glove that he scraped balls with while holding them in his glove. Gaylord Perry was caught rubbing vaseline on the baseballs. Brian Moehler got caught with sandpaper taped to his thumb. Orel Hershiser had water poured down his back between innings to wet the balls on the mound. Rick Honeycutt had a thumbtack taped to his finger. And BTW how could pine tar from a bat get onto baseballs that never made contact with any bat?
If a catcher doesn’t wear batting gloves and has pine tar on his hands. Or the catcher has pine tar hidden where he reaches for it before throwing the baseball back to Bauer. Option 3 is the catcher rubbing a sticky substance inside the catchers mitt.
Most pitchers put tar under their glove, on their wrist.
Under the hat, or on the belt are also popular options.
i’m fine with players “cheating” as long as it’s on the field and both teams have the same opportunity to cheat, i.e. like doctoring a ball or eating greenies
Fever Pitch Guy
Personally I think greenies should not have been banned. There’s so many legal supplements that provide energy, I don’t see the problem with it.
I knew this would happen eventually
“Crisco. Bardol. Vagisil. Any one of ‘em will give you another two to three inch drop on your curveball.”
“You put snot on the ball?”
I haven’t got an arm like yours kid, I gotta put on it anything I can find. Someday you will too.
Of course, if the umps are watching me close, I just put a little jalapeño inside my nose and get it running, and if I need to load the ball up a little, just wipe my nose.
I thought the only team/players cheating was in Houston?
Depends on your definition of cheating. Pitchers doctoring baseballs is as old as the hills.
And stealing signs has been around just as long. At many different lengths.
Cam is correct. What the Astros did was wrong, but Hank Greenberg’s 1940 Tigers (Hank admits it in his autobiography) stole signs via telescope and then relayed to hitters, and so did Wille Mays 1951 Giants. Granted, the 2017 Astros won the world series and the 1940 Tigers and 1951 Giants didn’t.
I’ve read many stories over the years saying as much.
Here’s one from this year
“When Eno Sarris of The Athletic surveyed 20 hitters, pitchers and coaches on the topic, the median answer was that “more than three-quarters” of pitchers are using something. Five respondents even went so far to say the true answer is closer to 100 percent.”
Did you hear about the angels employee? The one who gave Cole and Verlander his own blend of sticky stuff that holds up in cold.
This stuff is done by every team
Still doesn’t make it right, Guess its time to reset
“A legend in his own mind” ( Clint Eastwood). Could easily have described Bauer
his AAV and how much of a bust this contract will be are also legendary
Bauer is barely even in the top 10 in AAV in MLB.
2021/2022 is what im talking about. obviously 2023 brings it down but its pretty clear it’s just an insurance policy that Bauer would rather prefer not to pick up.
U guys dodged a bullet.lol
@despicable_you- well that’s if Bauer is found guilty. Nobody wants to play for the Mets. You have to be traded there. Nobody goes there willingly.
Lindor signed an extension…. he seems to want to play for us…..
@MetsFan22- he was traded there lst. And how he could turn all of that $ down? Lol. Playing for the Mets can’t be worse then playing for the Blue Jays. No reason why Lindor can’t do well in NY. You must be happy Bauer didn’t sign with you guys? Smh
His start in Colorado he was throwing whiffle balls, in the thin air!
Calm down, people. He hasn’t been found guilty of anything yet.
Where there’s smoke you often find fire.
You can tell the kind of tree by its fruit.
Over 90% of pitchers use sticky substances.
Increased workloads, less spin, 2021 they’re trying to break the pitchers.
I’m going to need your source for that. 90% bro ?
When Eno Sarris of The Athletic surveyed 20 hitters, pitchers and coaches on the topic, the median answer was that “more than three-quarters” of pitchers are using something. Five respondents even went so far to say the true answer is closer to 100 percent.
Works for me. Just thought that was a very high number. Nice.
Falling off that high horse is going to hurt, Trevor. Flap your arms on the way down, might slow your fall…
Calling out Bauer because he’s an outspoken conservative is what the MLB has become. It’s BS! Everyone knows that there are a lot of pitchers that use “foreign substances”, but you don’t see them being investigated. If you think otherwise, then you’re just a lying fool.
It does seem odd that the first one they’d investigate is Bauer, but I think that it’d have way more to do with his public comments on this specific matter (that shined (shown?) a bad light on MLB) than his political leanings.
Maybe it’s because Bauer said publicly that no pitcher can increase their spin rate by 400rpm without using foreign substances and then did just that in 2020.
He knows that many pitchers use it, MLB knows that many pitchers use it, and all of the players know that many pitchers use it, but Bauer is the one that’s being investigated? He’s outspoken about it, and none of the others have the balls to admit it, so he’s the fall guy. MLB is turning into the NFL/NBA and it’s sad. I love this game, but it’s getting ridiculous!
He didn’t help his case when he talked about personally using substances on an HBO documentary.
I’m conservative, but Tyler is just exhausting and unbelievably unlikeable. I’m sure he’s hardly the only conservative in baseball.
I thought he said he’s a libertarian? He has the personality of one, anyway.
when were his political leanings any part of this?
And we have our first lying fool!
i dont know jack about Bauer’s leanings, nor do I care. the guy is a whiny cheater, a Class A hypocrite, Jose Canseco 2.0. there are a lot more outspoken individuals that tend right in baseball but they arent rapidly seeing their spin rates for no good reason. probable cause enough right there even just to take a closer look.
You were first, Mr. Morgan.
Would seem the pitchers who have problems with blisters are probably using the sticky stuff
Around the same time MLB decided to peel out of Atlanta for the ASG. It is not out of the realm of possibility that while MLB was caving to the left, certain groups that pushed the ASG move could have easily said, “oh, see what you can do about Bauer.”
Wouldn’t be shocking to find out this has been in the works since before Spring Training, and they purposely waited until after his first start to target him and get inside his head.
Politics now has a home in sports. Very good chance Bauer would be defended and left alone had he be on the “proper” side of the political spectrum. This should not come as some surprise to anyone.
If the batter uses pine tar to grip the bat so he he doesn’t lose it while swinging said bat and potentially hit a player or fan, than a pitcher should be allowed to use pine tar on his fingers to grip the ball so he doesn’t hit a batter in the face. In both instances, pine tar give both batter and pitcher a grip advantage with an added safety element.
Except using pine tar on a bat does nothing to increase bat speed…
Yes it does!
Hub, try swinging a bat with less grip. Your bat speed will drop. Significantly. And bats will fly out of hands more often.
If they just randomly collected baseballs that were actually used in a game, I’d be surprised if less than half of them had some substance on them
Wake up. Some of the stuff is obviously from a bat, and some of the stuff is obviously from the dirt, and some of the stuff is obviously applied by the pitcher as an advantage.
Yep. Both pitch and batter use pine tar for grip. Advantage: Safety and Performance. Everyone wins. I guess Manfred could otherwise change the baseball, but a purest wouldn’t support that. Oh, wait!?!?!?!?
good call and accurate JW.
I’m awake, but thanks for basically substantiating my point.
You’re saying there’s crap on the ball, and I said it’s from the play of the game AND from pitchers. The entire point of this article and what I’m saying is that pitchers are putting substance on the ball which you should be able to see when analyzing the crap on the ball.
I didn’t think that was your point and I don’t think I confirmed anything you said. I guess I’m not clear on what you meant by “substance?” Game dirt or pitcher’s stuff that’s not allowed?
MLB will catch him and embarrass him publicly but they will not punish him. The article already says “may not be able to prove it was Bauer who doctored the ball.” MLB has no appetite for punishing cheaters.
These baseballs they have currently will not prove anything but they will now approach the mound and the baseball in his hand and have some questions during an actual baseball game.
The only good way is to punish the pitcher no matter who is messing with the baseballs. That will cut it out quick
I’m confused. Is Bauer suppose to be the pot or the kettle?
He was open about what he uses. His transparency absolves him from both.
Let him and anyone else cheat. Who cares.
Apparently everyone but you.
Apparently you don’t pay attention to this topic. He’s far from the only one, the list of those that don’t care about this include MLB hitters.
I would argue that the list of mlb hitters who don’t care that pitchers cheat is very, very small.
When it comes to using substances to help grip the ball, majority of hitters would rather that than get hit with the ball.
Ummm… because it’s cheating?
Bauer has to understand he is a pitcher. He is not allowed to have an edge of any kind. If you hit you are allowed to cheat or gain an edge. That was proven today by Conforto.
oh no! Bauer’s a victim again!
Pitchers. You shouldn’t target one player like that. It’s mean and quite vindictive.
Big Arm Guard takes another victim
Nebraska since you don’t watch games, the ball hit Conforto’s cheat pad. Keep believing the lies that arm guards don’t help hitters.
wow! a hypocrite and a cheater! its almost like he practically admitted to it on YouTube. bum.
Is this you admitting a contradiction? Because freely admitting to something and advocating for it would make him less of a hypocrite and, well, pitchers have cheated for two centuries. Stop whining.
I dont have a problem with substances, especially when you considering that reportedly 8/10 pitchers use something. IMO tho the league should set some standards like which 2 or 3 substances are ok and how it can be applied and how often. Something like a smear on tape places under hat beak or back of glove, pitchers have rosin bags on the mound.
I like strike outs and pitches with movenent thats 1 of the biggest things that drew me to the game in 2013, i love a great cutter or sinker. I think MLB wants more scoring as we seen with the juiced ball and if MLB can cut down some strike outs then obviously more balls in play.
There going after Bauer first cuz hes been so outspoken and mostly negative against the league. You would think Cole would have been the first with it coming out about him asking the angel for Goo for his Baseballs
they’re going after him because he is cheating. practically admitted to it on YouTube.
You just reiterated what he said…
the 2/10 pitchers who didnt use the stuff have been at a big disadvantage
I don’t care if other pitchers do it. Investigate them one at a time and punish them so it doesn’t happen again. Bauer is a start.
Look, I hate the guy just as much as the next guy, but we got to get out of this “guilty until proven innocent” mentality. This is the world we live in now, influenced by left/right media and looking to find guilt before anything. I’m gonna assume he did nothing as there is no way to prove he did it based on this article. Plus, even if he did, baseball didn’t punish the Astros so he should be ok to get away with it also.
In the same post, you’re both complaining about “guilty until proven innocent” but defending “one team got away with it so nobody should be punished?”
Is that called “taking a stand?”
Baseball took away draft picks and fined the team $5M. It may not have been enough, but it was punishment.
@GBS42 that was literally the most severe punishment that the Commissioner was allowed to levy on a team. The Astros got the maximum.
Because there was nothing in the CBA about what the Astros, Yankees, and Red Sox did to electronically steal signs being against the rules nor anything about penalties for players, MLB could not penalize players for that at all.
Absurd. If Bauer slaughtered someone on the field with 50,000 fans watching & millions on TV, is he surely innocent until he goes through years of litigation to “prove it really happened” & wasn’t a figment of all our imagination?
The judicial system is created to provide *justice*. It doesn’t exist to confirm whether reality is really real.
I really did just type this message to you – it isn’t uncertain until a judge says I did. You are welcome to believe I typed this message to you in advance of the trial. That’s called being attached to reality. Thankfully, there’s still enough people in our country attached to it to allow everyone else to continue living in fantasy land.
I don’t see what they can do without catching him. The MLBPA hasn’t agreed to any discipline in this issue, especially considering they’ve tacitly agreed to allow pitchers to put substance on their fingers to help their grip. Easily over 90% of pitchers are doing something, particularly those in the colder cities this time of year. Of course, Trevor is in California! No matter. I’m not sure what Manfred is trying to accomplish here.
Maybe it’s some kind of warning ? Clean up your act because we’re going to clamp down on substances used by pitchers? Who knows?
The rule is in the books. So are the possible penalties. Fines up to $50k and suspensions up to 10 games. He can be penalized for each offense, meaning each doctored ball according to the rules.
MLB has not tacitly agreed to anything. They have explicitly said its against the rules by sending a memo to the teams 2 straight seasons and have said they will strictly enforce the rules in both.
They now have the technology available in every MLB ballpark to measure spin rates so they have more ways to recognize what balls are being doctored.
They have also explicitly said that the only legal substance to increase grip is the rosin bag.
Its not hard to figure out what Manfred is doing here. Using substances on the ball like Bauer has admitted and even bragged that he is doing increases spin rate. Increased spin rate increases strike outs. Lowering it increases balls in play. Manfred has been vocal in saying that they want to increase balls in play to make the game more exciting for fans.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
The Baseball Fan (Doesn’t like the Cubs)
I wonder how much Manfred is paying MLB’s professional ball inspector…..
I’ll see myself out.
“Why of course I know him. He’s me.”
I hear he got a professional ball inspector from Avenida Revolucion.
Astros beat reporter broke the story
Funny, first comment on the MLBs announcement called out Bauer.
and the shame is he’ll get a slap on the wrist and that’ll be it. personally, the substances are trivial to me, but if it’s illegal there is no reason they shouldn’t be taking it seriously enough to consider it PEDs lite. that’s the desired effect after all.
Cap & Crunch
You went from “trivial to me” to “PEDS lite” in a matter of 19 words.
That’s a pretty impressive feat .
Pitchers going down to TJS at least once a week and this is what triggers you D?
Priorities. If anything Bauer might’ve helped keep pitchers healthy with his philosophy. Glad to know you are pro-arm injuries.
Well yes a guy like him as dumb as him nobody shld expect any better
“Have since collected several suspicious baseballs”. Uh, there’s this thing called “chain of custody” that is critical if you want to prove someone guilty. You can’t collect balls after a game and claim they are suspicious when other hands have touched them since he did. The freakin bat boy could have been picking his nose and then grabbed one. Manfred isn’t happy that Bauer is so outspoken so you can’t trust that this isn’t payback.
ah, the Ryan Braun defense. best way to help the integrity of the game.
Yeah, it doesn’t help like arbitrary enforcement of rules does…that’s the real key to integrity. I don’t know why you hate Bauer, but you sound incredibly petty throughout this entire comment section.
This is not going to a court of law where rules of evidence apply.
Trevor said in one of his vlogs that a lot of pitchers have done doctoring baseballs in the past. and they never get caught for doing that. I wouldn’t be surprise if Bauer does not receive a suspension for doctoring baseballs..
the league said this offseason though that they plan to go harder on it. he can thank himself for making them more aware that people are breaking the very rule he’ll be first to get caught for.
Let’s see how MLB and Bauer can handle the situation.
Manfred won’t do it
Sunscreen on the forearm hit it a few times with the rosin bag and you have a clear sticky substance and all you have to do is touch your forearm to get a grip
Legalize pine tar. Takes all the other substances out of the equation.
It at least puts the heat on the creep.
Brown Trout Fisherman
He’s to outspoken, getting framed
BPrice's 77 F-Bombs
MLB is the Deep State, and they’re after Trevor Bauer.
If he gets caught couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
He’s a tool bag. Can’t believe the Dodgers signed him.
Oh how the turned tables…
If they’re going to enforce it, the only way to make it work is to have the pitcher suffer the consequences. no matter who is doctoring the baseball.
Legalize it. We all played wiffle ball.
If they’re going to enforce it, they’re about to suspend a ton of pitchers in baseball
True. Amnesty for all. Lol
Or pitchers could just, you know, stop using illegal substances.
Pine tar helps a pitcher grip a baseball. Have you ever been hit in the face with a baseball? My guess is no, you haven’t. Have you ever played competitively. Again, my guess is no, you haven’t. Pine tar is all over the baseball field but not allowed on a pitchers fingers to control the ball. Stupid rule and stupid take. Way to go, Astro fan!
Look up the history of the spitball and why it was banned and you’ll see why pitchers shouldn’t be allowed to use pine tar.
Bauer is editing his new video to make an attack on Manfred as we speak. It should be released any time soon and yes he’ll deny the accusation all the way.
Profiling in my opinion because of his comments. I’ll laugh hysterically if they can’t prove anything, I mean c’mon…he knew he’d be a target. Also, funny how Rosenthal throws all these extras in his report like, multiple baseballs (I heard one), and they allegedly had scuffs and were “sticky”. So the officials allowed this baseball writer that loves throwing a bunch of crap at a wall hoping something will stick to inspect the baseball(s) they confiscated? Please…
Not saying Rosenthal is a 100% correct, but he is likely to have better sources than someone posting anonymously in the comments section of a niche site
Bauer puts a giant target on his back all the time. Loves the attention. I appreciate eccentric and quirky players, but Bauer seems like a self-centered tool.
I don’t buy the guy was cheating. He’s obviously a very easy target for someone like Manfred. He doesn’t fit the mold of what the league wants and it’s no surprise that he’s the first pitcher targeted under these new policies.
Bauer himself said that a pitcher cannot improve his spin rate by 300rpm without using illegal substances. He then increased his spin rate by 300rpm for 1 inning in 2018. Then in 2020 he increased his spin rate by 400rpm.
He himself said that it is impossible to do without using foreign substances.
One thing you have to admit about Trevor is that he’s smarter than the average MLB player. He knew this new policy was coming and wouldn’t put anything on that baseball after signing a guaranteed deal. I know exactly what you’re talking about and I’d be stunned if anything is found on that baseball unless someone else put it there.
Trevor Bauer is an American baseball hero. Plays to win, and is honest about it, even saying how he does it.
MLB has allowed this and much more/worse for years. For you purists out there, competition breeds the seed to win. You don’t like it, stop watching sports.
Everyone in sports/life is looking for an edge to win. Duh.
Ian Theodore Fanthemson
Haha American hero.
The guy is probably the biggest narcissist in the sport.
Really — what MLB player making $15M+ a year is not?
Conforto?? Edge to win? MLB investigate? Nope.
Conforto incident should have sparked baseball purists like Bob Costas to take a look at arm padding and how it has helped change the way the game is played.
It won’t happen.
@gigorilla what is there to investigate? The play wasn’t reviewable, the umps conferred and the ump even said he blew the call. That’s it, the game is over.
How bout them Stros?
They should check Kimbrel’s with the obvious pine tire on his hat.
No one cares about Kimberly anymore because he can’t throw a good enough fastball anymore.
Knowing how Bauer is, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was just doing this on purpose to keep Manfred honest and make sure mlb sets a standard for doctored balls.
Half the negative comments are coming from sour Mets fans because Bauer decided not to sign with them, now they’ve got they’re excuse to bag on him.
What a shock, mlb was watching Bauer’s start. What a crock
Let’s just suspend 4/5’s of everyone’s rotation! What could go wrong!?
When you admit on HBO that you are using illegal substances then yeah MLB is going to be watching you. Not a surprise.
And when it comes back inconclusive, it’ll look like they targeted him and lose all credibility in this regard
Or… we’re about to watch a whole lotta AAA pitching as guys start falling like flies to suspensions. Either way manfred will look like a joke
Oh I’m sure they won’t punish him. The article as much as said so. They are just sending him a message: cut it out.
And by cut it out, do you mean using substances, or talking about it? Seeing as how they haven’t publicly accused anyone else, it’d seem they don’t actually care about the former.
Bauer admitted it publicly. It is likely a huge part of the reason he got such a big contract. That’s why MLB is after him. If you want to make a point that cheating is not okay you go after the spokesman.
Honestly. It just means cheat better
I’ve watched countless games- dodger and otherwise- when guys arms are still shinning like a polished car. I just don’t see the reason to blow this up when it’s such a known not secret, and it’s not PEDs. (I know you are basically saying same thing, just closing my thought)
My guess is they’ll investigate and “fail to find anything substantial.” Bauer has basically already said I’m cheating and I’ll also name names of everyone else. MLB doesn’t want to open this particular can of worms so they’ll do what they always do, ignore it.
Shocker! No Way the insane jump in spin rate from 2019-2020 was caused by a foreign substance lol. But let’s not throw Bauer under the bus. I’d guess that 80% of pitchers use some sort of foreign substance. Most hitters don’t mind because they are less likely to get a 100 mph pitch to the dome.
I quess this explains how Bauer went from a 4.0 ERA pitcher to a 2.0 era pitcher
So did he just randomly try using it in 2018 then stop for 2019 and 2020?
Actually he did. He did it for 1 inning to make a point to mlb. MLB did not listen. In 2020 I’m guessing Bauer just figured “if you can’t beat ’em join ’em.”
The Dodgers are Cheaters. Plain and simple. Ban them from the league.
It’s not a Dodgers thing, it’s a Bauer thing. He was doing it last year with Cincinnati.
You must have missed the article that said 75% of the league is doing the same thing
How do you think Lamet magically improved his command? Are you that naive to think the Padres are immune??
“If the league attempts to punish Bauer, the union ‘would challenge any discipline not covered under current rules,’”
I don’t know who needs to hear this, but that’s the reason Manfred did not and COULD not punish the Astros players. So might want to quit whining about it and demanding it. It’s the union, and they do it for everyone. Yes, including all of your favorites.
And accurate and reasonable point.
Section 6.02(c)(4) of the rulebook states “The pitcher shall not apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball.”
Section 6.02(c)(7) states “The pitcher shall not have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance.”
Section 6.02(d)(1):penalty-“The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.”
Bauer has said it himself the best are using the clear has he not? He’s not a cheater he just joined the rest of the elite. More so its been know he and Cole were not exactly pals at UCLA and I’m sure he has no problem letting everyone know why Cole has had the success he has in the MLB. He basically announced he was going to great in 2020 and was. Are you a cheater if you announced you were going to join the rest of the pitchers using the clear. The Angels aren’t too happy with their fired vistor clubhouse manager that supposedly supplied opposing teams with the best clear around. Wheres are the nail file Niekros and spitball Perry’s now! Goo Angels!
He said he’s cheating and he said everyone is cheating so he’s not cheating?
Has that kind of logic ever worked for you with anything?
Don’t believe the man ever said he was cheating. He proved there is something you can use to increase spin rate. Which makes you successful. Baseball is a game of getting ahead. Everyone has there up. Pine tar. Steroids. Cocaine. Trash cans.
I wish I believed this was actually baseball trying to deal with a problem rather than just looking like they’re doing something by investigating an obviously guilty player for someone a lot of them do in one way or another. But until Rob Manfred demonstrably does something in good faith I’m just going to assume the worst about every word and every action.
If you think MLB had to give the astros immunity to prove that they cheated you are not paying attention. Any investigator worth their salt could have proved that without statements from the players. MLB obviously made a deal with the players to save face and not to find the truth. I expect MLB to come out hard at Bauer for substances on the ball. You can cheat in a World Series, but by god, let’s not have a better grip on the baseball.
Thank God Bill weighed in with the update that the league has a CBA and a union and that there is a thing called the law.
I was worried they might take him out back and shoot him without due process and that’s just not OK!
Who else would have doctored them? The Left Fielder?
Anyone on the field on could put something on the baseball. We still don’t know that anything was even on the ball but most people want to put Bauer in the guillotine. It’s just pure bias backed up by nothing but hate of his sometimes polarizing opinions.
The next time he steps in the batters box he needs a 94 MPH, pine tar coated baseball to the sternum
Why? Because he was the first player who was effected by routine ball inspections that we’ll see throughout the season?
In cold weather most hitters actually don’t mind and even prefer that pitchers do anything to get a better grip on the ball so they don’t lose control of a 90+ mph fastball coming in at their head.
Dang, the MLB is so bad that they’re making me a Trevor Bauer fan. Of course the most outspoken, anti- Manfred pitcher was the first one to get his ball inspected. I bet there is nothing on it and if there is I don’t believe that Trevor put it there.
there was a sticky substance on the ball.. like the sap from trees in the spring mixing with the rosin.. and scuff marks.. like the ball scrapped the laces of the catchers mitt at 100 mph.. after the glove had been in the dirt… in this day and age.. no video no proof.. I mean its not like he was Joe Niekro caught with sand paper and an emery board..
Nothing happens to Astros players but they are good boys and don’t speak out against Manfred. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the most outspoken pitcher against Manfred in baseball is the first one targeted under these new policies.
What do the Astros players have to speak out against? They weren’t punished at all. If anything they should be sending flowers to Manfred for his fumbling of their cheating punishments – all the hitters who used “the system” would have gotten a lifetime ban if a different commissioner was in power.
doctoring the human body and the baseball are as old as the game itself.. They were cocaine addicts laying baseball in the 1880’s all nice in legal drinking coca-cola.. and it didn’t change.. when speed came along players took speed, when Steroids came along they took steroids.. and I;ll bust a few bubbles Steroids were popular in the 1940’s starting in Muscle beach.. and straight to the MLB.. How come players Like Maris had such a gigantic spike and why did he lose those curly locks he was famous for.. was it radiation poisoning or was it steroids.. ? Gee Mr. Mantle.. why did you end up in the hospital with a Needle stuck in your hip after a shot from Dr. Feelgood?… Read between the lines… this is the chronicle of one event.. one of many treatments from trainers and “Doctors” commonly administered in those days.. https://grantland.com/features/the-last-boy/
Greenies were literally meth. Breaking Bad could have been set in the 1970s and Walter White could have been MLB’s biggest supplier – would anyone watch that? I probably would!
No it isn’t “literally” meth lol. It’s an amphetamine but it’s not methamphetamine. I’ve taken dextroamphetamine for over 15 years starting in middle school because of ADD. Methamphetamine is extremely more neurotoxic then dextroamphetamine or methylphenidate. There is a huge difference in the drugs. Don’t mean to be mean but people need to learn the difference or learn the definition of “literally”.
Pitchers who get caught are looking at an ejection and a 10 game suspension. Not exactly a big deal.
Fever Pitch Guy
So basically just one start missed. And MLB thinks that is some sort of deterrent? Hilarious.
This guy has always been a garbage human being
Can you prove he did it @2dm04
Lee Mazzilli for HOF
He is just a moron. He acts like he is a gift to sports and poop doesnt stink. Guilty or not still garbage human. Especially after BS he pulled with supposedly signing with Mets. Just a dic.
And of course that time when he threw the ball over the Centerfield Fence.
Or he’s proving a point and you’re too stubborn to acknowledge it
Brown Trout Fisherman
Maybe they should cancel Bauer and move him to Colorado.
And I thought his success was all because he could pitch with one eye closed. Guess I was wrong.
“Bauer hates the guy I also hate so I will not only defend his cheating, I will cheer it!!!”
Probably noteworthy that Bauer’s name is attached to this, only because….well, it’s Bauer. Venturing a guess these aren’t the first balls tossed out for inspection, and this leads to NOTHING.
Lol I’ve never seen a sport self destruct like baseball. Whether the baseball was doctored or not Bauer will always be accused of it now. Not sure why this information got out….I guess it’s just Manfred playing politics again, he’s just so good at it that he couldn’t help himself.
The MLB isn’t even dying anymore, it’s flat out dead. I can’t say whether I will ever come back to it or not one day either. Right now it almost sounds like a harsh punishment to be forced to sit down and watch a full game. It’s just such an awful product on the field and when they chose to play politics it was the nail in the coffin and made it a chore to follow the MLB.
I can rant about all the problems with the game, it would go on for a while. But what’s the point? The ones who are in control of baseball don’t give two craps about the product on the field. It’s just easier to say bye Felicia.
Ducky, it’s been fun catching up and happy things are going well for you. Maybe one day our paths will cross again.
Have a nice trip. Baseball is alive and well, you just want it to return what it was when you were young and it never, ever will. Remember when Kevin Gross got caught cheating in 1987? No different to now with Bauer. Baseball is closer to being exactly the same as it was in the 80s but because its like, 3% different, old people who hate change think the sky is falling.
“I can rant about all the problems with the game, it would go on for a while.”
All those “problems” aren’t problems at all. There are no problems. See ball, hit ball until both teams have made 27 outs – that still is happening all day every day this summer. Shame you can’t see the good things. Baseball and MLB is the best game and league in the world, period. The problem is fans like you who are toxic and have this impossible idea of what their vision of a “perfect” game is, it’s a one that will never exist and you want to impose it on the rest of us, who do not agree with you. I want more home runs, I want more K’s, I see so many commenters here hating on hitters for striking out “too much”, then complaining pitchers are bad because they don’t strike out enough guys, all in the same breath, give me a break…
Cant wait to see who flips their bat today, have fun doing whatever you’re doing…
The fans baseball has lost over time disagrees with you, UK.
Yup, the game is fine. I don’t pay much attention to what is trending, because this is the same as every other sport. 3,000 yards passing in FB use to be a magical mark. Now it means nothing. The mid-range jumper in basketball has almost disappeared.
Why? Because everyone adapts to what the other guy does, One day, it’ll be slugging. Then OBP. Then BP arms that throw 100 mph. One day they will teach prospects how to bunt, and that’ll kill the shift. Pitchers will figure out who the high-launch guys are and feed them sinkers.
Let the sport evolve and grow.
Any check to see what Meaghan Markle thinks about this?
this is fake news. mlbtr is just testing the news comment rules before they take affect.
I’m just surprised the comments haven’t been cut off
Lee Mazzilli for HOF
Crisco vagasile what ever I can find.
Pitchers doctoring baseballs is one thing, but being a total, vocal, hypocrite is another.
Breaks my heart to see this happen to a real class act like Bauer.
I knew the A’s weren’t this bad!
(just kidding, I know they even won that game – I also know that they are indeed, pretty bad right now)
It Happens Every Spring (1949).
The Major League references have made my morning.
“You tryin’ to say JC can’t hit a curveball?”
Dodgers fan, but not a Bauer fan. If the umpires found “…visible markings and were sticky…” during the game why didn’t they raise the issue at the time? Did the A’s ask the umpires to check the balls, or were they directed by MLB to collect balls based on statcast spin rates from opening day? Leaking Bauer’s name gives the appearance of an MLB vendetta. Attempting to discipline him will open the equivalent of Pandora’s box as you can be sure that the Dodgers will have umpires check the baseballs of opposing pitchers with high spin rates.
Not a Bauer fan either, but this is not how investigations should play out. Same with DV, same with drug abuse, same with PEDs. Investigate everyone if you want, but nothing goes public until you have found someone guilty.
so you mean the news should stay out of people’s business because MLB did not say anything Ken Rosenthal (a reporter that reports for a news papers on baseball but is not paid by mlb in any way) did.
MLB whom is doing the investigation did not announce or say anything on this subject and nobody probably would know anything if it wasnt for reporters.
The major leagues work on a favored team basis. The yankees and the dodgers are clearly two of those favored teams. So when Roger Clemens is wearing a Red Sox uniform in the postseason he is thrown out of the game for bickering, but when he’s wearing a yankee uniform and throws a piece of a broken bat at a Hall of Fame player wearing a Mets uniform, the umpires just laugh it off and tell him to not do that. When a fan reaches out and catches a ball at Wrigley Field it’s just another foul ball but when a fan reaches out and catches a ball at yankee stadium it’s a home run. When Jeremy Giambi crosses the plate ahead of the tag from Posada, the ump instinctively calls him out in a fraction of a second with a brief sidelong glance and without even so much as a second thought. And so it goes. So when the yankees are pulling as many sign stealing shenanigans for years as the Astros did in one season, it’s crickets, but now we have fans throwing garbage cans on the field and still complaining about the Astros players not being banned from baseball. So it’s not just MLB, its even the fans. People want favoritism. It gives them something to whine about (ya think?) when their team doesn’t win.
Do you think if this happened when he was on the Reds or the Indians, he would not have been tossed in a heartbeat? You know that would have happened.
I want and love players that show emotion and personality but for some reason Bauer p*sses me off sooooo much lol.
He acts as if hes the best pitcher on the planet after having a 1 great season in a 60 game sample size, against all teams in the NL central with pretty bad offenses as a whole…
MLB is a joke! Also what happened to the pitch clock:? I am sick of 60 seconds between every pitch.
Until baseball forces hitters to keep a foot in the box while taking signs this will continue. Remember, baseball rule changes are made to destroy the pitcher and aid the hitter. If not allowing hitters to play with their gloves, uniform, performance-enhancing arm protection or with themselves hinders the hitter it will not be enforced.
Then there wouldn’t be a need for a clock.
MLBTR, I would love to see a poll set up for reader’s opinion of Manfred’s decisions up until this point.
Can someone please tell me how / why the AL has a DH and why the NL does not?
When did it start and why does it take a “new CBA” to get it for both sides?
It makes a HUGE advantage for the AL
Cause AL like boring games.
Well if he was cheating he wasn’t cheating very well since the Dodgers lost and it was the A’s only win of the year.
Bauer also posted this video recently too which makes the fact that he’s being investigated even more intriguing –
Manfred is destroying baseball
Bauer’s about to receive more punishment than any of the Astros received for cheating.
That’s gotta sting.
I hear he scuffs them on a garbage can.
It would be hilarious if Bauer, who loves to pontificate about his prodigious knowledge about the physics of throwing a baseball, turns out to be no smarter than Gaylord Perry.
I doubt if he’s as smart as Jay Hook.
After receiving a master’s degree in thermodynamics, Hook retired in 1964 at age 28.
He wasn’t a very good pitcher but he was very smart.
Bauer is foolish for waving the “red flag” in front of the Bull that is MLB.
The league may be looking to make an example of Bauer. Rules against cheating and penalties are “selectively enforced against MLB and NFL players and teams.
The Yankees got a “free pass” winning multiple titles with roided up players who were openly and blatantly cheating on a daily basis,
The Astros cheating was minor in comparison to the Yankees steroid loaded up rosters.
MLB is hypocritical in the enforcement of its “rules”.
The Players Union will have a lot to say if the Commish and Ownership try to scapegoat Bauer.
qb texans watson?
Not really. The rule is in the books. So are the possible penalties. Fines and suspensions up to 10 games are both named. He can be penalized for each offense, meaning each doctored ball according to the rules. They could throw the book at him or they could just fine him. But a $50k fine won’t mean much to a guy making $40 million per season, so expect some 8-10 game suspensions after the first fines are given..
Not a Bauer or Dodger fan, but tbvh, umps can clearly tell immediately on the field if a baseball’s been tampered with. The fact that they had to take the ball out of play to “analyze” it somewhere else sounds very fishy. Sounds more like MLB is trying to find something than there actually being anything.
I wonder if one of his teammates crawled through the ductwork to replace the confiscated balls with ones that were clean.
Yes, you can see something on the ball right away, but I think they want to see what the substance consists of. Since that trainer got busted for his rosin and sunscreen and whatever mixture. MLB probably want to see if there is a new batch of stuff out there which you can’t tell by looking at the ball.
Manfred’s probably thinking of a way to turn this situation into a disaster like everything else he touches.
Bauer isn’t a hypocrite and here’s why: when he pointed out the obvious and ridiculous cheating taking place, the presumption had to have been “okay, fans, MLB, MLBPA, Umps and GMs will see this and action will be taken and people won’t be rewarded.” Instead, Cole got that contract and no one so much as flinched. So, the feeling he’s gotta be left with is, “fine. This must not be cheating. Time for me to see where I land in the pecking order with all things being even.”
Rules are only rules if enforced otherwise they’re built in disadvantages whereby the naive become victims.
Here comes the 4+ era. Issue him a warning, with clear consequences going forward.
The same for all players.
manfred just issued a statement:
“using the latest statcast technology, we have determined that umpires setting aside sticky baseballs will extend the length of games by an average of 17 seconds. this is detrimental to pace-of-play and requires a corrective action. effective immediately, games that are tied at the end of 9 innings will be decided by rock-paper-scissors. in order to maintain pace of rock-paper-scissors play, choices will be restricted to rock or paper. also, i’m an idiot.”
The rule is in the books already. Both the crime and the punishments. What can the MLBPA say if the player is suspended or fined? Not a thing.
Maybe Bauer shouldn’t have told the world and MLB how he was cheating.
Is he the only one involved in the Dodgers organization? Yeah, right!
The league has openly “doctored the ball” this year and in years past, to curb the home runs. In the past, to aid offensive output.
It’s got real taste of hypocrisy, to try to go after a pitcher trying to grip a ball better, the same year the league has changed the ball. MLB will allow pine tar on a bat. Is it not used to improve the grip in the bat used to hit the ball? Whats good for the goose…?
He all but acknowledged he was using some form of illegal tac last season. This could turn him into the most expensive mid-rotation starter in MLB. Now let’s see what happens the next time Cole pitches for the yankees.
Yeah, didn’t he say that since everyone else cheats so does he. But now he is complaining that they look into him when he says he is cheating. Also, I hate how before he even got caught he preemptively said they can’t prove that he put anything on the ball bc it could have come from anyone in the field. I never paid attention to him before but now I know I shouldn’t care. He’s a heel.
Has 6 runs in 13 innings always been good?
No, but he currently leads MLB in Ks. That’s usually good
A couple 2 run shots in the 7th inning at Coors hardly negate that he has been very very good for the majority of the time he’s been out there. That’s right, 4 of the 6 runs he’s allowed are from 1 single Coors inning. He’s been great so far really, one inning aside.
MLB’s feeble and vindictive move to take attention off their bumbling of the All Star game.
Ahhhh yes you can just hear the MLB “Wheel of Fortune” warming up. The issue isn’t really about Bauer maybe doctoring the balls, and that the game umpires although noting issues with the balls did nothing during the game even though they had the authority.
The real issue is what penalty will it stop on when the wheel stops., 8 men banned for life for conspiring to fix a W/S, an average manager but a great player banned for life for betting on games not as a player but as a manager, two executives banned for life for violating international drag rules, a manager and and general manager, get suspended for a year (60 game season) for cheating to fix games which lead to their team winning the W/S. Numerous players suspended for Domestic Violence allegations despite the fact they weren’t either charged or convicted in a court of law.
MLB has no crediibility in dealing with offences or penalties, its just all up to the WHEEL.
The real hypocrisy is not with the players but rather with MLB Head Offices. They have absolutely no standards as to how rules are applied.
You have players and exec’s suspended for life for gambling or alleged cheating, and you have other players and exec’s who have done far worse and basically got a slap on the wrist or nothing at all.
MLB brags about its Drug Policy. There have been PED around for decades. MLB only developed their drug policies when the USA Congress became involved and forced the issue.
MLB talks about its Domestic Violence Policies. But this only came about as a result of the other major sports (particularly NFL) taking action. And while I agree that there should be a policy around Domestic Violence as a former Police Officer I find their methods of investigation and punishment disgusting.
As for cheating. You pay a player millions of dollars per season and give him long term contracts you expect him to perform at a high standard and win you games. He knows this and he’s going to seek out every advantage and edge he can find to win.
Someone here quoted these rules:
Section 6.02(c)(4) of the rulebook states “The pitcher shall not apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball.”
Section 6.02(c)(7) states “The pitcher shall not have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance..
Great rule right clear cut ?
Umpiire throws the ball to the pitcher. Pitcher then throws to the catcher or 1st baseman in the normal routine of play. Catcher or 1st baseman scuffs the ball or loads it up with some substance and lightly tosses it back.
MLB needs to examine all their rules and policies, make them clear cut as to time frame of investigation, penalties and treat everyone the same.