Major League Baseball’s announcement of imminent plans to crack down on pitchers’ use of foreign substances on the baseball has drawn a wide range of responses from those around the league. Rays ace Tyler Glasnow, who suffered a partial UCL tear during his most recent start, hypothesized that MLB’s midseason enforcement of a blanket prohibition on all substances- from a sunscreen/rosin combination to industrial glue- contributed to his injury. As one might expect, plenty of others have since weighed in with varying opinions.
Jeff Passan of ESPN characterizes the reaction of those around the league as a “rift…dividing organizations, friends and people who otherwise are ideologically aligned” in a fantastic column. It’s not as simple as hitters vs. pitchers. Passan notes that some position players, who would seemingly be anxious to get offense-depressing grip enhancers out of the game, have expressed support for their use. Some pitchers, meanwhile, are happy with MLB’s uptick in enforcement.
Phillies reliever Archie Bradley and Pirates starter Steven Brault, for instance, each expressed support for the rule in recent interviews with Chris Rose of Jomboy Media (Twitter link). Bradley noted that MLB’s treating foreign substances as an on-field rules violation- therefore preventing teams from replacing a suspended player on the active roster- could stress other members of a pitching staff but suggested the onus just falls on pitchers to cease their use. Brault was “surprised” MLB decided to enforce the rule midseason but added he “can’t really blame (the league)” and concluded that “if you needed stick to pitch, then maybe you’re just not good enough.”
Midseason enforcement seems to be a bigger issue for other players, though. Glasnow called it “insane” and “ridiculous.” Red Sox starter Garrett Richards told reporters (including Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald) he “(couldn’t) think of a worse time” to enforce the rule. Richards said he previously used a sunscreen/rosin combination but now has to grip the ball harder and agreed with Glasnow that could threaten pitchers’ health. Another pitcher echoed to Passan that he’s “worried” about the rule, noting that he has to “squeeze the [expletive] out of the ball, and that can’t be a good thing.” (Dodgers starter Trevor Bauer also criticized the league’s decision to crack down in the middle of the year- rather than during an offseason- as part of a comprehensive video breakdown of the situation). On the other hand, Richards’ teammate J.D. Martinez pointed to sticky stuff’s contribution to the downturn in leaguewide offense and praised MLB for “finally (noticing) the issue and making the adjustment to stop it” (via Chris Cotillo of MassLive).
There’s also broader labor implications to consider with the current collective bargaining agreement set to expire on December 1. Passan notes that some players believe MLB is enforcing the rule now in an attempt to divide players with collective bargaining on the horizon. Britt Ghiroli of the Athletic reports there was little to no collaboration between MLB and the MLB Players Association on the enforcement. MLB “drew a hard line” on the issue, Ghiroli writes, although she hears from a league source who says the MLBPA was given ample opportunity to give input before the plan was finalized but chose not to do so. Regardless, Ghiroli questions whether the league’s efforts to legislate sticky stuff- while “commendable”- were worthwhile given that they “alienated a significant percentage of players who contribute to (the) on-field product.” Her excellent piece is well worth a full perusal.
Perhaps the best encapsulation of the player-management discord was a bizarre spat between Diamondbacks starter Zac Gallen and MLB senior vice president of on-field operations Michael Hill, chronicled by Zach Buchanan of the Athletic. In an MLB memo to teams outlining the enforcement, Hill wrote that the league’s early-season research showed “that the use of foreign substances by pitchers is more prevalent than we anticipated” (via Ronald Blum of the Associated Press). That didn’t seem to sit well with Gallen, who played for the Marlins while Hill was Miami’s general manager.
“He was in charge of an organization that was definitely at one point saying, ‘Hey, you’re going to need these things to help you,” Gallen said. Hill’s job as Marlins GM was obviously quite different than his current role at MLB, so there’d be nothing inherently inconsistent about him allegedly promoting sticky substances to help Miami pitchers at the time but now hoping to get them out of the game as a league executive. Hill, though, called Gallen’s claims “completely false” and suggested the pitcher’s comments were influenced by his agent, Scott Boras. Prior to the Gallen-Hill spat, Boras had released a statement to reporters (including Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic) excoriating the league’s enforcement efforts. In particular, Boras took issue with the implication that players were to blame for using substances many around the league agree have been encouraged by teams for performance-enhancing reasons.
The disparate opinions reflect larger debates about player health, the state of the on-field product, and the generally antagonistic relationship between MLB and the MLBPA and others on the players’ side. We’ve certainly not heard the last of these, particularly with the CBA expiring in a little more than five months.
Fun times.
Ugh collective bargaining talks are going to be an absolute nightmare.
A strike seems inevitable at this point.
More likely, a lockout.
Well put
Whatever it will be called…. I don’t expect to see spring training happening. And I doubt the season will start in time.
Do not underestimate the stupidity of owners and players. A strike or a lockout would be very bad for baseball and should be avoided, but I don’t expect it will be. Guess I will do more of my beer drinking camping next year than in a ballpark.
20 minutes after the Rule 5 Draft, seems appropriate.
You might be better off that way. (Drinking in a campground as opposed to a ballpark.) At least the beer will be cheaper.
Less beer drinking at the ballpark is a good thing.
And a lockout would seem justified at this point. Players need to show some flexibility on matters. They too often present themselves as intransigent.
A strike seems inevitable at this point.
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Not with Richards on the mound. A few walks, HBP, etc. No strikes.
It was already going to be a contentious CBA between Manfred and Clark who can’t even agree on the time of day. Now Manfred thinks it’s a good idea to toss the foreign substances stink bomb into the room just to make sure negations get off to a horrific start. My gut tells me there will be no baseball in 2022.
There will be baseball in 2022.
In colege. In the minor leagues. In Indy Ball.
Yep, that sounds like an accurate take on Mandred’s intentions. (I wonder why he hasn’t stated it publicly yet.)
At this point I don’t expect both sides to talk. Either just a staring contest at best or a little kid temper tantrum where one side just picks up their toys and leaves.
As a rule of thumb, if Boras is against something, by all means, do it for sure.
I won’t argue with the sentiment overall, but Boras is absolutely right in this specific instance.
About the players not being at fault? really?
Really.
that’s comical and pretty moronic.dpnt blame the people performing the action.
MLB makes the rules, and MLB enforces the rules. If they haven’t made a rule, or made a rule and didn’t enforce the rule, then it would be pretty moronic to expect any other result from the players who are naturally competitive and are all looking for an edge or any other behavior from the team owners than encouraging that behavior or at the very least looking the other way. You know, like PEDs? (How soon some of us forget.)
huh? I am referring
to any comment blaming organizations for their pitchers. that is what is being said above. the pitchers ARE responsible for their actions.
dpsmith22 – you are talking about personal responsibility and that is not allowed anymore. You obviously didn’t get the memo last year that no one is responsible for themselves.
And I am referring to the same thing. No matter how you try to shade the issue, MLB is still responsible for making the rules and enforcing the rules of the game. This isn’t the first time they’ve been lax or AWOL when it comes to that responsibility. You also seem to forget that the teams are the “organizations” that make up MLB. The argument that players were in effect going rogue is pretty absurd. They do what their organizations condone and encourage.
@darkstar61 he’s absolutely right 100% of the time. The only thing he does that is dishonest is presenting cherrypicked information to a free market, which isn’t that dishonest at all compared to how all 30 ownership groups act.
Why? Literally name one thing that Boras has done to make baseball worse? Allow players to get paid a commiserate % of revenue? Have more choice over where and how long they play for?
The most hexing piece of this board is the bootlicking of these owners (that mostly inherited their wealth) as some beacon of freedom.
bkbk – “The most hexing piece of this board is the bootlicking of these owners (that mostly inherited their wealth) as some beacon of freedom.”
Of the 30 owners in MLB, which of them “mostly inhereted their wealth” and what is your proof? Second question is: So what if they did? Being wealthy is not a crime. I’ve never worked for a poor guy.
My speculation is that if you had a long lost relative die and leave you a billion dollars, you would gladly accept it.
and then it would be ok…..
WTF is this argument?
@prov356 you never worked for a poor guy because you allowed yourself to be exploited, and you speak as if that’s a fine and dandy thing for our society to aspire to. Why are you like this? You have been propagandized by billionaires, that’s why.
You’ve never worked for a poor guy either moron. The point is that managers and owners of any business aren’t poor. They may not all be rich, but they definitely aren’t poor.
hmm so let’s think about how many jobs there would be without rich business owners? hmmm ..oh wait you would just get money from the people that do work….
LOL! Most Americans would starve if not for Corporate America. For the sole skill of being to bring some accounting sense to my Corporate Overlords, I own 1.5 houses, have a retirement plan, can afford breakfast at the local diner, and beer at the ball game.
The idea that I would be able to build my own shelter, hunt my own food, and make my own clothing, without Corporate America, really doesn’t sound feasible.
Correcto Mondo
@bkbk is absolutely correct on every level. Best comment in thread.
Boras has ushered in an era of selfishness masquerading as players (workers) rights. Glad I was able to answer your question.
Historically, its literally the exact opposite every single time. But Joe MLB Fan hates Boras due to owners putting out hit pieces about him in the press and fans can’t think beyond the 1970s for some reason.
Fans are really going to have to flip on Boras at some point, it is beyond insane how much fans hate him when all he does is look out for players. It’s a billion dollar game now, its not the 1970s anymore, please grow up. Players deserve as big a slice of the pie their skills and talent bring in – that’s the bottom line.
Boras looks out for his own bottom line. He’s not some crusader for workers rights.
yea except the one fact that you didn’t mention. when salaries go up so do ticket prices and normal folks can’t afford it. baseball salaries WILL be a big reason the game implodes.
No, I despise Boras for how he’s harmed the game, not due to so-called “hit pieces.”
Don’t make an effort to clean up the game, actually clean it up, or leave it the fk alone.
I lost an IQ point for every time I re-read this, down 4 points. Paypal me at:
Yikes…only 4 more left.
If you are not supposed to be using a foreign substance and are. Isn’t that cheating. I guess if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying?
If go by philosophy of large % of posters on this site.. If Houston players are using the substances, it’s cheating, but if players from the same people always complaining about houston’s favorite team are? It’s fair game.
John, let me see if I can break this down for you. If players are cheating, it is wrong. However, if the league turns a blind eye to the problem then most will do it. When the league finally acts and puts out memos to teams and players to stop, then the offending parties should be held accountable and be ridiculed if they continue to cheat. As the Astros have been.
true. the pitchers should be held accountable now. although the league’s timing is an example of Manfred’s incompetence.
A rule without enforcement is just a nice thought.
Have any umpires in the current MLB crop ever decided to make themselves the story?
I’m all for Joe West and Ahgel Hernandez tossing three pitchers from a game on June 21st or 22nd.
And if it’s my team, my team probably deserved it.
It was also Houston’s arrogance and denial of the evidence that makes everyone hate them to this day. I’m a Padre fan and I’m sure they’re cheating in some way too, because yeah, as someone mentioned, if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. I just hope that the next team to get caught says yep, it was us and we were wrong. We’re sorry. If the Astros had just done that, instead of the arrogant quotes from Bregman, Correa et all, there would be far less hate.
Wouldn’t you be upset if you were the fall guy for a league wide issue?
They did admit they wrong and said they were sorry. People just didn’t care. This is why they continue to look the other way about other teams using similar systems to steal signs.
And now that pitchers are being caught cheating how many are apologizing? None. In fact they are whining about the timing and blaming the enforcement of the rules on injuries.
But hey, let’s only hate the Astros for cheating. How dare they do it and not apologize.
If baseball is going to bring the hammer down on foreign substances they might as well just implement the auto strike zone and get rid of sign stealing by installing mics on people while they’re at it if they’re worried about integrity of the game.
Unpopular opinion: mlb cracked down cause they need offense to attract fans.
Football has audio equipment in helmets to call plays in to the huddle. In baseball the catcher and pitcher could wear a wristband with numbers like 1-5.
I Beg:
That’s not an unpopular opinion, that’s a regularly mentioned motivating factor for this.
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion.
The issue here is the degree
Is rosin with a bit of sunscreen technically against the rules? Yeah, it is – but good luck finding anyone against it. It’s been how pitchers have ensured they are not plucking hitters for decades and hitters have always come out in support of its use in the past. You’ll find kids as young as highschool being taught that is how you grip the ball.
But now in an effort to catch the few guys who are going above and beyond the normal they are taking a blanket, everything is going to be banned stance.
Timing is also ridiculous. If you’re going to ban things people have used since they were teens, you can’t even give them a full off season to get accustomed to not using it before game action?
The issue here is not the getting rid of other substances, it is the all-or-nothing stance getting rid of even a mix everyone wants, that was handed down randomly in the middle of a season on top of it
So our society shouldn’t prosecute criminals at a certain time of the year. Just warn them that In the winter time, there crimes will no longer be acceptable and prosecuted? I know that’s a little strong, but the premise is the same.
Rules are rules. Laws are laws. You break them and there are consequences. Its what separates us from from animals.
What are you ranting about?
Sunscreen is something everyone involved with the game supported pitchers using until 2 weeks ago when MLB decided they were going to change their stance
When you’ve encouraged everyone to do something for decades, to the point they’re taught it while still in school, then randomly over night say it is now banned? Yes, that is a problem with you, not them
The “protecting hitters” thing is a myth. I’m not sure why this keeps on being brought up. The hit by pitch rates over the past 4 seasons are the highest they’ve been in the…last 100 years.
That includes eras where it was far more acceptable to throw at guys in retaliation.
Extra grip is helping pitchers throw harder without sacrificing control. Harder pitches are harder to react to, both in terms of hitting and getting out of the way. If you want to protect batters and get more balls in play, this is a win.
Thank you. Gibson, Koufax, Palmer, that era didn’t need sticky stuff to throw the ball wherever they wanted, but somehow hitters didn’t need protection back then.
The hitters were lousy back then. Every lineup had two or three automatic outs plus the pitcher. Go back and look at some of the middle infielders who made all-star teams. Watching baseball in 1968 was no fun.
The sticky stuff is enabling pitches to break like never before. The harder you throw, the better it works. Throwing hard and the sticky stuff go hand in hand with cheating. It is why pitchers spend their off-season trying to gain or regain velocity. So they can cheat better.
cherry picking 1968?
Reds hit .273, Tigers hitters were pretty good overall (except Oyler 🙂 )
Really? Watched baseball back then. Pirates fan, let’s look at the BA of their starting 1967 roster: 271, 249, 261, 287, 302, 271, 338, 357. Yep, some lousy hitters back then, definitely do not compare with lineups of today. That 249 was Donn “Stretch” Clendenon who was having a down year at first. The entire team was 277. Yep, no offense back then.
1968 is the “year of the pitcher”, the year they messed with mound height. Not a good year for comparison.
It’s not cherry-picking when I bring the worst offensive season in the history of the sport, a season that led to the mound being lowered the following season. The Tigers batted .235 as a team with an OPS of .692.. It was more than just Oyler. Wert or whoever else played 3B or SS was also an automatic out. One player in the AL batted higher than .290. Lineups were easy to pitch to back then. A normal year for a starting 2B, SS or C was three HR or less. These guys couldn’t hurt you if you placed the ball on a tee. The starting infield for the 1971 Yankees hit 10 HR. The previous year, they hit 15. Pitching was less stressful than it is today. Soft tossers were winning 20 games and being among league leaders in ERA. Overall, players are better today by a wide margin. That’s a reason why cheating is such a concern. It’s blocking guys from achieving their on-field potential, on both sides of the ball.
EVERYTHING you’re posting on this issue is cherry-picking
In 1967, the composite MLB BA was .242 and OPS .664
In 1968, the numbers were .237 and .639.
Yep, no offense back thing is true. Those were two terrible offensive years. Your robust-hitting Pirates hit just 91 HR with an OPS of .704, despite the league being loaded with soft tossers.
HR Totals of ’67 Pirates starting lineup:
3, 13, 9, 6, 3, 20, 2, 23.
Team OPS was .704. That led the league, but would rank 14th in the weak-hitting (and it is weak-hitting) season of 2021. Those ’67 Pirates also weren’t a particularly fast team with 79 steals (29 by Maury Wills). So it wasn’t exactly a diversified offense.
Pitching is better today. And it needs to be because virtually every batter in the modern game can hit the ball over the fence. Back in the ’60s, that wasn’t the case.
How so? 1968 and 1967 are the two worst offensive years ever. And it was someone else who brought up ’67 as a way of defending against my choosing ’68. The two seasons were both awful. And there were concerns at the time, which is why the mound was lowered AFTER the ’68 season. The person who said the mound was being messed with during the ’68 season is wrong.
I had fun watching baseball in 1968. More listening than watching. I had more fun watching baseball in the early 70s. Again, more listening than watching.
With the lack of singles, contact and running a single game has never been so boring. Thank goodness, baseball is consumed differently today than 50 years ago or it wouldn’t survive.
Ceyhey, you are cherry picking. Consider these numbers. In 1967, there were 5.99 strikeouts per team per nine innings. In 2020, the number was 8.68.. More balls were put into play in the 1960s than today. My bias is that balls in play are more exciting than strikeouts. HBP 0.23 in 1967 and 046 in 2020. Twice the rate today even considering Bob Gibson who would knock down his grandmother if she crowded the plate, was pitching in 1967. (Not a Cards fan, but immense respect for Gibson who did manage to pitch for another inning after Clemente broke Gibsons leg with a liner.). Hits were 8.17 per team per game in 1967 compared to 8.04 in 2020. (Both 1967 and 2020 were down from previous years.)
Your focus on home runs shows an ahistorical understanding of how the game has been played. Home runs were not always seen as the goal of any hitter. At one point, home runs were seen as rally killers.
Ballparks also dictated how the game was played. In 1967, the Pirates played in Forbes Field, a cavernous ballpark with a 452 alley in center and high walls., a place where home runs went to die. (Interestingly, home plate in Forbes was 75 feet from the backstop which meant wild pitches and passed balls were more interesting.). Around 1970 when teams moved into the ugly donut multipurpose stadiums with artificial turf, the game changed. Players could use the rug to get hits in a different way. Didn’t mean they got more hits, just that they hit differently. Looking at the historical numbers, you see a significant increase in home run rates after 1993, which is also the last year strikeouts per team per nine was below six. The surge in home runs coincide with the move to new ballparks which starts with Camden Yard in 1992. (Correlation is not causation.)
Well said ds61 – the most reasonable and complete response posted here..
Thanks.
Remember when a Chicago Cub got caught with a corked bat and was immediately suspended and fined?
Enough said.
Sammy Sosa admits to using a corked bat in 2003, but calls it an ‘innocent mistake’
“If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” was the motto of the Oakland Raiders in the 1970s and 80s.
So here’s my take on all this.
1) Quit cheating. If you have made a major league roster because illegal substances have made you good, then you are (figuratively) taking food off of the table of another player in your organization who isn’t cheating.
2) The CBA negotiations are going to go sideways so badly I do not expect baseball to start until July 2022 if at all for the season. There will be more leaking talking points to the media then there will be of actual table negotiations, and the owners will lock out the players on Feb 1 2022.
The few pitchers that did not cheat had worse stats so they had shorter careers and therefore earned much less money. Who said cheaters never win?
The CBA talks were going to go sideways before this illegal substance thing came up anyway. This has nothing to do with it.
Good point….they didn’t have problems pulling out the “taking food off my table” argument when hitters were juicing, so what’s the difference now?
Strictly in my opinion…
It reflects poorly upon the current state of the game when an article like this even has to mention CBA negotiations. The fact that some/many have to look at every decision and every comment made in regards to how it will affect negotiations points to the notion that the business of baseball is far, far, far more important than the actual game itself. Owners, management, coaching, players… matters not which splinter group you consider, “business” is in the forefront of their minds.
I understand that baseball has (almost) always been about business before sportsmanship or entertainment, but it’s so much more obvious now than ever before. Baseball isn’t the only culprit, of course… money, and lots of it, has done more than its share to ruin professional competitive sports.
So spoketh the prophet Cindy Laupner, I guess… Money changes everything.
Time after time!!
It ruins college sports too. Basically, if you want to pay athletes to entertain you full time, this is what you get. You can solve it by basically handing the keys to the car to the players, as in the NBA (which works just fine, thank you, with some awkwardness and lack of competition), or to the owners, as in the NFL (which screws the players every way from Sunday). But MLB is caught somewhere in the middle, and so the negotiations are fraught every single time.
Well stated points, and thank you…
For the record, my own personal take on it is that the NCAA qualifies as “professional sports.”
I stopped watching the NBA because it became a joke and the lack of competition made most of the season pretty pointless for like 90% of the league
Manfred has no tact.
Is that “tack” or “tact”?
… tact.
He learned from that creep Bugg Selig, a guy that couldn’t make a decision to save his life. He’d float one idea out after the next and sit back judging the backlash and going from there; same as this issue was addressed.
The Selig era should have convinced every baseball fan that the commissioner is the creature of the team owners, and that if he’s ticking you off as a fan then you should be looking over his shoulder to his 30 masters and the marching orders he is getting from them.
Selig was the first “owners commissioner” in MLB, being a former owner himself before they made him commissioner. Before that it was a somewhat autonomous position with no allegiance to either the owners or players. That’s how it was designed to be when they created it to save the sport from the Black Sox scandal. But the owners, being the greedy controlling sorts they are, kept chipping away at that autonomy until they succeeded in doing away with it entirely.
Selig was the first commissioner who was an owner. Every one of the others has been an owner’s commissioner, because that is who has always been their employer. The idea that the commissioner has no allegiance to the people who hire him, can fire him, and make out his paycheck seems kind of unrealistic, if not naive. Incidentally in terms of the history, the owners had been discussing creating the commissioner’s position for some time before the Black Sox scandal. Baseball was already having problems running the sport by a committee of bickering owners. The commissioner has always had just about as much autonomy as the owners would allow, meaning not much. Now the commissioner is effectively the CEO of MLB, which is what we should expect considering how corporate baseball has become.
Learn to pitch better or learn to cheat better.
I think the proper term is gooder.
More better
Pitchers are crybabies. You were clearly breaking a rule. Now you can’t get away with it. There is more to pitching than winging it as hard as you can and hoping an illegal substance makes your throw less hittable. Take a few MPH off your pitch and PLACE it where the hitters can’t get it. Then you throw at batters’ heads and take offense when they take 1 extra beat to admire a home run or flip a bat that seems offensive to you? Boo hoo.
That said, doing this mid-season was probably the dumbest thing that could possibly happen, and it smacks of desperation. Announce something like this at the winter meetings and start enforcing it in spring training. I can see how the players’ union sees this as an attack, and agree with those posting that this is driving the sides further apart and making a work stoppage more likely.
Pitchers are not crybabies for being upset they are being told they can not use sunscreen, a “substance” that has been encouraged by basically everyone involved with the game at near any age for decades and decades – and being told this mid season to boot
Ban things more extreme, but pitchers have every right in the world to scream about losing sunscreen with no time to adjust to throwing without it
I also suspect the only reason MLB is banning sunscreen is that they need there to be a visible difference in stats after the effort, and they fear there will not be one when only banning the things everyone does want gone
No, they don’t have a right to cry about that…..they just don’t.
Taught by everyone to use sunscreen since 14 or younger years old
MLB encourages it’s use your entire pro career
Then one day before you take the mound at the highest level they say, nope, the way you’ve thrown the ball you entire life …well, you can’t do that anymore because we don’t like the fact a few other guys are using something way worse than what we actually like you using
It is insane, and it will lead to a ton of pitcher injuries as they try to unlearn what they’ve known their entire life overnight
I could see being upset about a mid season change…..
However, you have players making public comments day after day, including Bauer who said
*“I just want to compete on a fair playing field,” Bauer said yesterday, in an Orange County Register report that contains a host of vibrant quotes. “I’ll say it again. That’s been the point this entire time.”*
*League enforces it* and now they are upset at the timing. It’s just you openly flaunt in front of the league.
They have every right to be frustrated. Teams promote it. League officials knew about it years ago and basically say, “Okay, that’s fine.” And now the league 180’s halfway through the season. You’re asking pitchers to change the way they’ve gripped the ball since high school.
If you want to FINALLY enforce a rule. Great. Just give the players more heads up than two weeks in the middle of a season. Acknowledge the gravity of what you’re asking them to do and offer solutions. It’s pretty sad the KBO figured this out before the MLB.
As usual, it’s a bunch of rich guys who don’t know how to throw a baseball making decisions about how to throw a baseball.
As usual, it’s armchair internet folks cheating their companies out of work hours to comment on pitchers ‘cheating.’
So if you think nobody, who can throw a baseball, decided this, I have to say you’re wrong.
Pedro Martinez basically said if you can’t throw a baseball with the bag of rosin and some sweat, then you aren’t a real pitcher anyways. So how is it that guys like him, and rivera, all didn’t grow up throwing the ball this way. You’re seriously mistaken if you think all the way from little league to now, they’ve used sticky substances. Hyperbole, straw man. That’s all you can give.
Like it or not, pitchers were saying we would be fine without this stuff. And we just want it fair acrossed the board. They should have just said, not this season. Please. Omg they talk every day, Twitter every day. Nobody shares this?
They have no right to complain, they all knew this was going to happen. All of them have been saying it for weeks my friend. If anyone is surprised, the issue is brain, not sticky substances
I really don’t get the hypocrisy here by those who buy into the “middle of the season” argument.
MLB said before they started last year “IF YOURE USING, STOP!”
*some players ignore*
MLB said before they started this year “IF YOURE USING, STOP!”
*same players ignore*
Then MLB started a massive collection and testing program in plain sight. While starting to suspend MiLB pitchers. *MLBers watch*
MLB learns use is more widespread than ever thought. Says this is enough.
Then MLB sends private memos to those caught in testing, suspected of illegal use, and their teams. “STOP USING.”
Then a couple weeks later MLB says, OK, 10 day suspensions, with pay. NOW, STOP USING.
How is this different than MLB sending electronic sign stealing memos to teams, including in season guidance, then coming down on teams it caught? It didn’t give a grace season for teams to adjust then only enforce for behavior it caught a couple years in the future…
But was anyone really against penalizing cheaters to the extent they cheated? NO.
So why protect cheating pitchers? Not all pitchers cheat, or are against the new policy.
As far as the argument “why ban everything?” Give a reasonable way for an ump to know what someone is using in the middle of a game? Without waiting for a lab test?
Only way to enforce is a blanket ban, then you don’t need to wait for the testing.
What does PRESIDENT TRUMP have to say about this? 40-50 years ago, the kids I played with were always looking for ways to cheat. It is what it is. Most of them had no real talent to begin with but their daddy had a business that the team coaches were very interested in…, so, the only way they could look marginally athletic was to cheat cheat cheat. How about they all go back to LEARNING HOW TO PLAY. oh, and ban the DH, along with all the new T-BALL rules recently inacted…
Former President Trump would say if you can’t find a way to cheat to win, then you are a loser. That man knows all about cheating.
And getting cheated
You bury the seems so tight around the core that the baseball is essentially a cue ball. Then you try to prevent the pitcher from using anything he can to improve grip.
The one villain in this is MLB with the creation of the super-ball. Kershaw knows it, Smoltz knows it, Bauer knows it, Pedro knows it. And I’ll take their word for it.
The seams are way higher this year. That problem was solved.
Pedro Martinez literally said yesterday , you can throw this ball just fine, with rosin and some sweat. Shouldn’t be a pitcher if you can’t.
Take his word, don’t falsely claim his word is something else tho. That’s an issue
Seriously what the hell … pitchers managed to pitch for 120 years without anything more than rosin, or whatever other household product they wanted to use. Now all of a sudden they have to “grip the hell out of the ball” just to throw it the right direction? No. That’s just the frustration of a player who depended completely on illegal substances to make him a multi-million dollar major league player, and is seeing the writing on the wall.
Lol come on. No one used substances before now? Hint: history did not start when you were born.
Where did he claim that?
“without anything more than rosin, or whatever other household product they wanted to use”
Used to be umps rubbed up a few dozen balls before each game with mud from the Delaware River because the balls were too slick. This only went on for, oh, about 90 years give or take. It was even a rule: MLB Rule 4.01(c), which states that all baseballs shall be “properly rubbed so that the gloss is removed.” Is this not done anymore? Seems to me if it were being done, there wouldn’t be so much crying about the ball being too slick.
That is merely enough to help fielders get enough grip to be able to throw the ball to a base
There is a rosin bag on the mound for anyone to use because they know full well mud is not enough to make it safe to stand in a batters box with a pitcher having nothing but a mudded ball
Such a false argument. Hitters have been getting hit more in the last four years than ever before. Pitchers aren’t using sticky stuff to keep from hitting batters.
Yes, they are still mudding the ball.
Not really no
Dustyslambchops23……..Yes really 6abc.com/magic-baseball-mud-mlb-ball-used-teams-ne…
BTW…the NFL uses it too
Forget watching baseball, I want to see a reality show that follows MLB executives throughout their day. To see how someone so incompetent is able to merely survive would be fascinating. The episode where they have their executive assistants taken away will be amazing.
Our whole existence is a scripted reality made for tv
So on a cold day when there’s a mist in the air, try throwing a baseball as hard as you can 60.5 feet and maintain control of where the pitch is going….it’s nearly impossible.
Then maybe they should learn to actually pitch instead of just throwing as hard as they can.
That’s like saying, well batters shouldn’t swing as hard so they shouldn’t need pine tar or grip aids.
Where and who draws the line ?
They just did. Also, the rulebook.
Right. Not really the point.
The game has evolved, batters are more protected and have better grip than they’ve ever had, which is a distinct advantage because they can lean out over the plate and not have to worry about controlling their swing and losing their bat.
So in 2 years, if offense sky rockets and the games are too long, is MLB going to reactively make changes mid season to batters advantages? That’s no way to run a league with so much history.
Actually it is the point.
It literally was your point. It was just awful and you were called on it so you ha to move the goal posts.
Everyone can go back and forth on where the line is in cheating, that’s debatable and there really isn’t no right answer.
What is not debatable is how absolutely terribly Manfred and the MLB handled this issue. We are just now moving away from all the bad publicity from the Houston scandal and MLB decides to absolutely blow up this issue as if it were urgent or a healthy/safety risk.
There was zero, repeat zero, reason to have played this out in the media so loudly and introduce new rules in the middle of the season. This could have been handled easily in the off-season. If it is about creating division between pitchers and batters it’s not working, the only ones who are losing, who will continue to lose are the fans.
Someone needs to get Manfred out of there, he doesn’t have the strategic or leadership skills needed to have this job.
It was playing out in the media already by players, particularly one player. They absolutely needed to respond because they did not respond in time to the sign stealing accusations appropriately, and it damaged the reputation of the sport and weakened their leadership.
Also, it’s so strange to see how so many people absolutely crucify those caught up in the steroid era. Then, as now, it was a “look the other way” activity that some teams even sanctioned or promoted in the interest of profit. So many people are running to their defense to talk about how it wasn’t enforced, teams asked them to do it, how commonplace it is, and all of those same things were in place during the steroid era. Bonds and Clemens are treated like human garbage, and likely to get locked out of the Hall of Fame with one last year of eligibility, and here are so many people excusing this incredibly game-altering activity – we’re not talking spit or sunscreen.
They had been warned and warned. There’s reports of them talking about it in Spring Training of last year – the league sent warning. I think the players just thought it was never going to be enforced. The players had walked all over the rulebook and thought the league weak. Here the league is finally taking a strong stand and the players don’t like it. All arguments I’ve heard against it are weak, and full of fallacies.
There is no correlation between steroids and sticky stuff. “Cheating” isn’t all equal .
Stealing signs from second base is expected, stealing signs with a camera man, tech relay is a big deal. There are different degrees, and putting pitchers looking for grip/spin in the same boat as those who took PEDs is insane.
We literally teach 14 year olds to have some lose sunscreen on them and mix it with rosin.it’s not cheating.
Well, actually……..it is! It’s against the rules whether you like it or not. Whether it was enforced or not. Any time you break a rule, especially to gain an advantage, you are cheating. It doesn’t really matter that you teach 14 yr olds to do it. It’s against the rules and an advantage is gained by doing it (or what’s the point in doing it) so it’s cheating.
There are different degrees, and putting pitchers looking for grip/spin in the same boat as those who took PEDs is insane.
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PEDs is worse, imho, but sticky is pretty close. Thru parts of 6 seasons, Bauer had a 99 OPS+. In the past 4 years, he has an OPS+ of 146. That’s a huge difference.
You should be fired as a coach. Terrible. Teach them how to play and respect the game. Or you should quit
IIRC, before the season MLB said it was going to monitor the use of foreign substances. I can see people being surprised MLB is doing something about it. But the concerns didn’t emerge yesterday.
They introduced net new rules, did anyone expect sun tan lotion, rosin to be on that list? With new expectations for umpires and new penalties. All net new.
Introduce it at the beginning of the season or don’t at all.
Sunscreen is not a new rule. They just didn’t enforce it before.
Wahhhhhh…. bunch of babies now. Relax bro. Baseball will be fine
Interesting that pitchers who are considered more top tier are the ones coming out against it. I would think that as a hitter, you would want the pitcher to have a better grip on the ball and, in theory, have better control.
Jason Heyward and Ian Happ sure aren’t cheating. Of course, they don’t pitch either.
MLB is a joke, literally making stuff up as they go along. The sport is tremendous, the institution is tedious.
Wasn’t meant as a reply
Powers that be want to change a game that was pristinely designed not to be changed.
When the people who create the rules and enforce the rules teach you how to break the rules and tell you it’s necessary to break the rules, then you’re not breaking the rules.
I will admit that the last time I threw a baseball competitively was in 1999 when at the age of 42, I pitched against a high school team for 3 innings. I never had trouble gripping the ball and my grip was always pretty loose, but I have big hands. So I don’t quite get using anything to grip the ball better. Find it hard to believe that baseball would do this mid season for anything other than an ulterior motive. It’s certainly not going to bring more fans to the game. So I smell something else here. Baseball is stepping in it.
It’s been a process of MLB cutting off its nose to spite its face. The ball had been juiced for years to generate more offense which it did. Manfred’s disingenuous denials along the way came home to roost when he announced last winter that the balls would no longer be wound as tight. So the league BA dips to .236 – mission accomplished, right? No. Now he wants the pendulum to swing back after a couple months by zeroing in on pitchers who’ve been violating an unenforced rule. Why not just juice the balls again and call it a day? Manfred would rather make a mess than solve a perceived problem.
Are you Dennis Quaid?
Huge fan
my respect for Bradley has never been higher
Board again putting his foot in his mouth. saying it’s not the pitchers fault they were using the stickum. Compare that to saying it’s wasn’t the Astros players fault they were busting trash cans. Guys like him are why the game is imploding.
I have to strongly disagree with the writer here that what VP Hill was doing “isn’t inherently inconsistent”. If he was telling players or was in an organization telling players to use these substances and then says in a memo “the use of substances is more widely used than thought” that is 100% lying BS.
I agree that specific comment by Hill would be quite hypocritical if Gallen’s assertions are true. I don’t, however, think it’s inconsistent for Hill to (allegedly) encourage Marlins pitchers to use sticky stuff as GM but then try to litigate it out of the game as an MLB executive, since those two job descriptions are very different.
We also aren’t seeing real proof of this. Could have been just putting emphasis on spin rate.
Lol Steven Brault complaining and claiming other pitcher “are not good enough.”
Well he’s actually not too bad
Pitchers getting injured for playing fairly?… seems legit.
I would be interesting to see a cheating by team the past handful of years. Probably not really possible but I want to see how bad it is/was with the pirates having one of the worse staffs the past few years… just to see if they’re not cheating as well as others.
It’s amazing to me that the “it’s okay to cheat” crowd is so large. With these people it’s all about picking a side. Basically it’s…players-good, Manfred/owners-bad. No matter what rule is being broken by the players.
How about saying screw both sides and just be in favor of a clean sport with no cheating?
Unfortunate that MLB appears to be incapable of taking a measured approach to anything. Seems to me that a better compromise could have been had. Allow the use of sunscreen and rosin. Provide both at the mound. Make the pitcher declare his usage of the combination. Allow only the brim of the hat and glove to be used to keep it. Take random samples and allow the opposing managers to initiate an inspection of opposing pitchers. Have real penalties (akin to PED’s) for introducing anything else other than the rosin, sunscreen or sweat. Extend the penalties to the managers, pitching coaches and teams.
The 5 highest hit by pitch rates/season over the last 125 years? 1900, 2020, 2021, 2019, and 2018. So no, this has nothing to do with making things “safer for hitters”.
i played baseball many times up until about 18. never had a problem gripping a baseball.
make penelties stiffer for cheaters. rest of season ban. that’ll give them plenty of time to work it out before spring training next year.
The hypocrisy in all this this is awe inspiring. A league that completely ignored blatant steroid use for years, so as to recover a fan base after a strike, along with overlooking this current issue for generations, well, it just boggles the mind.
It does seem intentional on the part of MLB. Every move they make these days seems to be with the intention of alienating the majority of parties involved.
To me, the umpire’s misjudgment on balls and strikes needs much more attention than the sticky stuff. Get the AI umpires first. Then, maybe then this whole thing can take place.
“alienated a significant percentage of players who contribute to (the) on-field product
You mean the ones getting insane money (Bauer, Cole, cough) because they’re using stuff they’re not supposed to be using to get the contracts? Yes, their concerns are of utmost importance.
And unless the teams are going to be coming after them for fraud to try to void the contracts, their biggest concern is off the table.
Just like anything some took what used to be a blind eyed understanding into a full on S&%t show by abusing it and taking it way too far.
You can see to divide between the pitchers who played by the “unwritten rules” and the pitchers who ruined it for everyone.
It is also another example of how artificial analytics can be.
Analytics great for strategy & mechanics, super sketchy for performance.
Next act for MLB get rid of shifts!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m baffled how guys like Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddox, John Smoltz etc. could possibly been as dominant as they were 20 years ago without all these sticky substances. Listening to some of the whining from guys like Glasnow apparently it’s impossible to pitch without it.
Balls have changed, they also haven’t been rubbed up in the same way.
Also those guys used stuff to, people act like this is new, spit, pine tar, sunscreen etc have always been in the game.
The worst thing that’s ever happened to the game of major league baseball is the use analytics to this extent
Shifting has dramatically killed offense. Base hits that have been hits for decades are now outs leading to hitters thinking they must hit the ball over the fence
Launch angles have turned every hitter into a power hitter even with 2 strikes. And basically ruined good hitters swings into thinking they must elevate and uppercut everything.
This style and brand of baseball is tough to watch. teams striking out 21 times a game is simply pathetic and has more to do with hitting philosophy / shifting than a sticky substance on a ball
Boy do i miss the days of sacrifice bunts / squeeze plays / hit and runs / double steals
Ah yes, the good old days when every lineup was loaded with automatic-out/all-stars like Bud Harrelson and Ed Brinkman. Those stiffs wouldn’t sniff MLB today (and no, they weren’t better defensively than modern athletes). The five players who occupied SS and 3B in 1968 for the WS champion Detroit Tigers batted a combined .184. That team hit .235. The New York Yankees that year batted .214. Fun, fun. The good ol’ days weren’t so good.
Wow. This guy cherry-picks 1968, “The Year of the Pitcher”, as his benchmarks for denigrating hitters and approaches to hitting of the past, so as to exalt the hitters and approaches to hitting of today.
The man is entitled to his preferences and even to his disingenuous argument, but this argument just screams to be called out and taken behind the wood shed.
yeah, it does, and it’s too bad because dude often writes things worth reading, but this ain’t it chief
I used 1968 as an apex. That entire era favored pitchers. Look at league-wide statistics throughout the ’60s, which can be found here. Dreadful. The “year of the pitcher” wasn’t all that different from the years directly preceding it. It was just the breaking point. A miserable year and the powers-that-be in MLB were concerned even without today’s advanced data. It’s why they lower the mound.
baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml
Now think back to rosters from that era and beyond (the 70s and 80s). A normal 2B, SS, or C wasn’t much of an offensive threat. Good years to research are SS HR/power numbers from 1974=77. Toby Harrah was a freak averaging 20 HR per year during that span when most shortstops averaged less than 3. Dave Concepcion was considered a good-hitting SS even though his numbers tell us differently.
As older fans, we need to stop romanticizing about baseball of our youth being better than today’s game because it wasn’t. Alas, older people do that in lots of areas aside from sports. Music, for instance, though that is for another board.
Why is an increase in offense at 2B, SS, or C a necessarily good thing? Those are defensively important positions and glovework has absolutely been downplayed in favor of offensive prowess. But offensive prowess doesn’t win games by itself. That type of bat first mentality isn’t necessarily a good evolution of the game at all.
I don’t really care if someone is OPS’ing over .800 at any of those positions if they can’t field. More runs doesn’t always make a better game.
Exactly. Pitchers have been doctoring the ball for as long as there have been substances to do so. Should Gaylord Perry be removed from the Hall of Fame?
The offensive problem is caused by the shifts, having 3 Infielders in RF on almost every left handed hitter should not be a thing. And every hitter swinging for a three run Home Run while no one can seem to get on base. Like most industries that suffer because people are running them that have no experience in that actual field Baseball is being ruined by a bunch of computer nerds that have never set foot on the Field or probably even owned a Baseball glove.
Ted Williams was a fan of the shift. He was quoted as saying how stupid it was for fielders to play all hitters the same way. While shifting is obviously more extreme today, it’s a safe assumption that he would have no problem with it.
As for the “nerds,” there’s nothing wrong with education, research, and advanced data. It helps businesses and individuals make better, more informed decisions. The anti-education sentiment in your post is dangerous and unfortunately widespread these days in America. Dumber is not better. That nonsense needs to stop if we’re ever going to be the great nation we aspire to be.
My post is not “anti-education” but its an entirely different perspective trying to understand the game from the field rather than a spread sheet full of 1’s and 0’s. You can look at a computer screen and a 3d mockup and say this is what should happen everytime but the game isn’t played by numbers or digital images. It’s played by people, and as such the human aspect has long been lost to algorithms and analytics
Analytics deals in probability . Measuring the most likely plans to succeed or fail. The “human” element is largely unpredictable and relying on it turns quickly into guess work, or bad plans with low probability of success as opposed to the “algorithms” which maximize the chances of success. Of course this success is limited if everyone is also using these analytics so the key is being a step ahead of everyone else, but certainly not a step behind.
Analytics has turned into an arms race in which nobody gains an advantage for long if at all, but in which everyone has to keep building their numbers bombs or risk being left behind.
teams striking out 21 times a game is simply pathetic and has more to do with hitting philosophy / shifting than a sticky substance on a ball
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1-You don’t know that.
2-If you don’t like the strikeout, you’ll be pleased to know that strikeouts have decreased from 9.2 the last 28 days to 8.8 over the past 14, to 8.7 over the last 7 days.
That’s good, right?
Degrom spin rate was about the same last night. I think that proves me right. In fact I think I was a little higher than usual.
The statistical jump in de Grom’s strikeouts via the slider is both astounding and damning (it was posted during yesterday’s Mets game). The harder you throw, the better the sticky stuff works on breaking pitches. The reason for his improvement is clearly not natural. It’s not unlike Barry Bonds turning into a home run machine. For now, Bonds is some kind of villain while de Grom gets a pass. Eventually, that will change. Cheating is cheating. As for fans, they need to look beyond the team name on the uniform. Eric Gagne will always be sleazy in my book (I was saying it at the time he was doing it). Mike Piazza was a cheater (he admitted to using Andro). Trevor Bauer is completely indefensible, perhaps along with some of his teammates. If you’re willing to overlook cheating because it’s being done by a Mets player, then you have too much emotional investment to speak rationally on the subject. You’re more of a Mets fanboy than a fan of the game.
Mets are suppose to be behind the Braves by now? What happened dude! I alway get a good laugh from your post.. the spin rate numbers are literally telling you he doesn’t use sticky stuff.
The “too much emotional investment to speak rationally” line really strummed my oh the irony string. There’s a fine line between being objective and galloping on a high horse. Speaking of lines, once MLB actually draws one regarding ball doctoring, then we can actually determine what is cheating.
The line was drawn literally a hundred years ago. Rosin is okay, any other foreign substance is illegal.
That the rule was not well enforced is unfortunate, but the idea that it somehow didn’t exist or that we couldn’t know it was cheating all along is nonsense.
Hill’s denile to Gallen’s comments are not surprising as MLB has always taken the “we didn’t know” approach to everything. They played shocked at how rampant steriod use was in the mid 90’s/early 00’s even though teams were providing players with the stuff and then every Owner/GM/Manager/Clubhouse attendant all said they had no idea. Its the same thing here. I can believe Hill was telling players what to use to give his team an edge, now that he’s on the other side of it deny and say he didn’t know. Just like Luhnow in Houston…
The pitchers rejoiced when steroids became an issue. Hitters got huge contracts because of roids, pitchers have gotten huge contracts while cheating. Cant wait to see how many no hitters will be thrown now. Lol #bring on the offense. Still will be roids and cheating but % will go way down
Maybe Archie Bradley isn’t the guy to be telling dudes they aren’t good enough.
He’s at the highest level of his profession. How’s your life in comparison?
My problem with all of this is that MLB often looks the other way on rules when it benefits them but then cracks down when it is in their best interest to do so. They looked the other way with steroid use when all those dingers and HR chases created interest in the game (and $ in their pockets). But once it was out of hand they finally decided to crack down. At least with that they worked with the union. This sticky stuff issue though? Again, MLB looked away for a long time, even privately approved of it. Why? Offense down? Not really. Run scoring was just about where it had been from 2010-2018, 2019 was the outlier. Really the only thing down was batting average but again, not really affecting scoring. And even before the crackdown, averages and scoring were starting to rise as the weather warmed. So really a not a huge problem had they just waited . Now they have opened a can of worms they really didn’t have to open. Plus, I agree with the players that state this was better handled between seasons, not during it.
Exactly right. The only thought I kept coming back to after the original spout of press about no hitters and how “small ball is back in” and “offense is the worst all time” articles was: why is everyone being so twitter/social media about sports news now?”
MLB is a large sample game – the press and social media simply can’t stop ignoring this, we need to stop overanalyzing small samples, because they will be balanced out in due time.
But no, due to twitter being too powerful literally all media and fans live for the screaming headline, ignoring that it occured in a small sample, and as anyone with a half a brain knows – focusing on small samples is unbelievably stupid and worthless. I partially blame MLB Network, as they have to create content for the 24 hour kind-of news channel that no one really asked for to begin with. Therein they need the “instant analysis” about a small sample that doesn’t really need to go further than “oh wow, a no-hitter, cool!” but instead they keep expanding it out into “the game is broken/bad/wrong and needs fixing so lets argue over that next” when its literally been the same every single season.
Society needs to make hyperbole illegal. Nothing about the game of baseball in 2021 is “ruining” the game, but it’s the hyperbole from media, press and fans that absolutely is the biggest problem in the game today.
Correct. The steroid era saved Baseball after the ’94 strike. Cal Ripken Jr. breaking Lou Gehrig’s consecutive game streak offered a small respite from the harsh bitter feelings of the fans but it was the Mark McGwire/Sammy Sosa Home Run race of 1998 that brought Baseball back. The stands were filled, tv audiences were plentiful and owners were happy.
Now offense is down. Ratings are down. Attendance is different due to circumstances beyond Baseball’s controll. And Manfred needs to put a bandaid on a bullet wound
So the Gallen for Chisholm trade was retribution for Gallen’s comments??? That’s wildly illegal.
Pitchers are sure upset; position players not so much :). As a fan I am enjoying it. Last two games between the Red Sox and Braves 36 runs. Pretty kool.
Red Sox starting pitchers have an ERA of 6.67 over the last week. Braves are at 6.70. Coincidence, or bad MLB staffs being revealed for what they are without their helper?
Coincidence. Out of 30 MLB teams there was bound to be two that had a bad few games in BBC a row ERA wise. It means nothing.
Richards almost a definite yes, but ERod has been pitching poorly for a while now.
Tells you all you need to know, doesn’t it?
Someone please help me understand something. There is a rule that has been on the books but for some reason is not enforced. So you break the rule, you cheat and you get caught. So as punishment you are suspended for ten days and YOU STILL GET PAID ????
Typical Manfred pretzel logic.
It is the best they can do without PA approval. Same with a lot of unions.
MLB should be cracking down on the Pirates throwing games to attain a higher standing in the draft.
Dbacks and O’s doing a better job at tanking. Haws been going on for years for teams that need a complete rebuild. That is what the Pirates just started last year. and have from AA on down built back. Should be several players being promoted and will have AAA on down looking better. Can’t speak for the Dbacks or the O’s
Throwing games in order to gain the minimal advantage of moving up one or two slots in the draft would be idiotic.
With the pitchers being the ones not happy now and when the PEDs were cracked down on, the batters were the unhappy group. When Robo Ump takes over the plate in a few years, wonder who will be the more up set group? Pitchers who could get strikes called because they had decent framers behind the plate will not be happy. Like wise those framing genius type catchers will lose a bargaining chip so they will not be happy. Those pitchers who throw the big breaking balls that don’t get strikes called on many of their pitches will gain an advantage if their breaker starts out of the zone and breaks through ever so slightly and ends up in the dirt will be overjoyed. Batters will have more trouble with the curve but be happy that the zone will be consistent no mater who is pitching or catching and which human ump would be behind the plate. The zone should be the same in every stadium.. To me, it will be a very interesting story when it happens.
manfraud to the netherworld!
So many posts and opinions, from varying sides. It’s quite fascinating to read.
Is sunscreen really a ‘foreign substance’? Should eyeblack be considered illegal? Pine tar? Why isn’t ROSIN considered an illegal grip enhancer? It’s certainly less natural than sunscreen.
A pitcher uses pine tar when he hits, gets it on his hands and then takes the mound. Is that illegal? The catcher uses pine tar when he hits, throws every ball back to the pitcher. Different?
Here’s an idea: why not just prep game balls differently and PRETREAT them so they are less slick?
How about keeping the exact same ball in play until it’s lost in the crowd? Ok, you tacky up your hand for a better grip and thus make the ball easier to grip. Well, if everyone does it, what’s the problem? Maybe hitters just need to learn to adapt?
How about not letting the pitcher touch the ball with both hands at the same time?
Listen, PED’s proved to be dangerous to the human body. They needed to be banned as dangerous.
Is extra tack any different than Vaseline to gain movement?
The problem is the umpiring simply not enforcing rules already in place!
How about a new commissioner first, then start tinkering with rules and penalties! He’s a joke, just like this new penalty is!
As a RS fan, Richards is out of luck. MLB said they were going to look into it in the off-season. Richards should’ve figured out how to pitch without the sticky stuff. I kind of like what Gerrit Cole had to say:
“Spin rate is not everything,” Cole said. “You can still pitch well if you don’t have a high spin rate.”
Just figure it out. Or admit that you cannot pitch without cheating.
Richards hasn’t exactly been wowing anyone even with the sticky substances. I thought when they signed him it would be a good signing but so far you are all but guaranteed he will allow at least three runs before the fifth inning every time out
For the life of me I can’t figure out why fans have a problem with MLB enforcing a rule that doesn’t effect them.
“It’s in the middle of the season!” So what it doesn’t effect you!
“They need to be able to grip the ball!” So what it doesn’t effect you!
Blah, blah, blah! It’s a rule, the league has the power to enforce it, your favorite pitcher is a cheater, now grow up and stop crying!
blah, blah, blah!
several things stick out. What about the batter has to have at least 1 foot in the batters box. We have professional hitters who obliterate the batters box with their feet. What is being done about that.What about the batters who conceal my step out of the batters box(ie Toby Harrah the human rain delay) Finally remember a few years ago when pitchers were put on a time clock.I like the dh.play extra inning games with no one on base and we need to do something about all star voting. The Yankees,Mets and Dodgers have a distinct advantage because of the late fan base. Voting should be based on current stats not last years. Also I have a problem with ESPN. When is the last time you saw the White Sox. Always subject to blackout restrictions. The Sox have the BEST record in baseball but all we see is the yuppie Cubs,the beloved Yankees and the boys in blue. The LA Dodgers
it is hysterical that Glasgow blames Major League baseball for stopping him from cheating as the reason for his injury.
Its so true that umpires each have their own definition of the strike zone. I don’t have a problem with that per we. As long as they are consistent. I f you are a descent hitter you adjust you don’t whine.
Here is what I think is odd. There is a big crackdown on what pitchers can use or not use but mlb is not enforcing the same on the batters. Has anyone seen all the crap that is used on bats, batting gloves, helmets, etc…. The on deck circle looks like the glue aisle at a Home Depot with all the sprays, pine tar sticks, etc. If batters can wear batting gloves pitcher should be able to as well. If batters can use all sorts of sticky crap then pitchers should to…. Just my 2 cents.
johnmacgwu@yahoo.com