Rays starter Tyler Glasnow hit the IL with a partially torn UCL and a flexor tendon strain today, and he feels that MLB’s decision to finally enforce the foreign substance rules on the books is a contributing factor. In advance of MLB’s new enforcement policy, Glasnow ceased usage of sunscreen, changing the grips on his fastball and curveball. Here’s what Glasnow had to say (Bally Sports Florida sideline reporter Tricia Whitaker has the video here):
“Do it in the offseason, give us a chance to adjust to it. But I just threw 80-something, 70-whatever innings, and then you just told me I can’t use anything in the middle of the year? I had to change everything I’d been doing the entire season. Everything, out of the window, I had to start doing something completely new.
And then I’m telling you, I truly believe, that’s why I got hurt. Me throwing 100 and being 6’7″ is why I got hurt, but that contributed. I’m just frustrated that they don’t understand how hard it is to pitch, one, but to tell us to do something completely different in the middle of the season is insane. It’s ridiculous. There has to be some give and take here. You can’t just take away everything and not add something. Pitchers need to be able to have some sort of control or some sort of grip on the ball. And I just don’t want this to happen to somebody else, I don’t want a fastball to sail away and hit somebody in the face like it already has.
I understand you need to take an aggressive approach here, but I just think people are going about it all wrong. And I’m sitting here, my lifelong dream, I want to go out and win a Cy Young, I want to be an All-Star, and then now it’s all just shit on. Now it’s over. I have to try and rehab and come back in the playoffs. I’m clearly frustrated…people need to figure this out. You can’t just tell us to use nothing. It’s crazy.”
According to ESPN’s Jeff Passan, Glasnow’s sentiments are “shared by a lot of people across baseball — and not just players.” Dodgers righty Trevor Bauer is another pitcher who takes issue with MLB’s timing on the enforcement, tweeting, “They’ve knowingly swept this under the rug for 4 years. Now they implement a knee jerk reaction to shifting public perception. Hard to hear them talk about “competitive integrity” when they have no integrity to begin with.”
The pitchers who have been speaking up recently on this topic have sound points: this issue could have been tackled with care in the offseason, and MLB should have tried to get players on board. As the Nationals’ Max Scherzer put it, “The players should have a say in this. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will. It just appears that MLB is going to do whatever they want with this.” The use of “sticky stuff” by pitchers has been an unenforced rule for many years, and forcing pitchers to go cold turkey could bring unintended consequences – including injuries. MLB’s new “enhanced enforcements” go into effect Monday, though some pitchers have clearly been weaning off the sticky stuff this month.
Years ago, MLBTR had a consultant build a TJS model. Is that still maintained? If so, how does Glasnow factor in? I realize he’s not confirmed for TJS as of right now, but interesting to see if he was of higher probability.
He already had forearm issues that caused him to miss much of 2019. Forearm issues are usually a precursor to elbow issues/injuries. I would say he was heading this way whether he was allowed the sticky stuff or not.
I’ve always thought MLB should give the pitchers a “league approved substance” similar to pine tar or whatever, that pitchers can go to when they need a better grip… Give the players something that works, and if they use something that’s not league approved, THEN take action. But don’t act like it isn’t happening and then all of a sudden start throwing the book at players because the fans found out all of a sudden. MLB needs to tighten the F up!
They have a league approved substance.
It’s called a rosin bag. It’s been used for decades. It sits on the ground behind the pitcher’s mound.
It’s not that pitchers “had” to find something else. They chose to do so for a competitive advantage. Just because they’ve been allowed to do that unchecked for a number of years doesn’t make it OK.
That’s like saying if lifting weights was effective then no one would use steroids.
There is clearly a rule in the rule book stating you can’t use foregoing substances while pitching. MLB warned teams in the offseason that this is coming and to knock it off. Nobody took it seriously. MOB issued a second warning that this was coming and to knock it off. Spin rates instead increased. So they finally had to do something about it. I get hating on the MLB, they’re incompetent with numerous things, but they handled this one pretty well I’d say, and Glasnow looks like a clown for trying to blame MLB for not letting him cheat despite 3 warning that they were going to crack down starting in the offseason.
Glad we know why Glasnow was so lights out now though!
I get
“Do it in the offseason, give us a chance to adjust to it. But I just threw 80-something, 70-whatever innings, and then you just told me I can’t use anything in the middle of the year?” He just found out that cheating isn’t OK?
This type of clown poster is so funny trying to claim sunscreen and rosin is cheating. Have you ever watched a baseball game before big guy
He plays half his games in a dome. I’m sure he’s talking about sunscreen and not some more egregious substance lmao. Ok then.
It was accepted, rosin, get a grip…..
It’s about pitching…..
NOT ABOUT whoever know the latest stuff and new ways to use it…..
It’s cheating.
It hasn’t been enforced cheating in 150 years of MLB so I don’t know how you’ve came to that opinion.
It’s cheating that was allowed for decades and is suddenly frowned upon. Glasnow has a point about the weird enforcing of the rules in the middle of the season after allowing it for years.
so chrating is fine as long as no one’s getting penalized?
No. But it was not a secret. MLB was aware of this and acted like it was fine. Now they’re saying it isn’t.
Not really actually. Every player knew where this was headed (toward enforcement) and they opted to continue cheating anyway.
So were PEDs. Do you consider them cheating?
So agree. It has been around forever. Why is it a problem now? What next? A limit on bat size and weight?
They didn’t start enforcing PED bans in the middle pf a season.
No – but doing pretty much whatever it takes to get an edge in baseball IS fine, unless or until you get caught.
yes there is a rule about bats……..Rule 1.10(a) states:[16]
The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood.
Maybe batters should not be allowed to wear batting gloves and use pine tar.
So i really dont have a problem with it in general. The issue is they have let ppl do it for years, so is it really cheating? They need to do it in the offseason but if they want to crack down this season they say substance A,B and C is fine for the remainder of the season and we will reevaluate this offseason on if substances are ok and what ones
The real reason this is being done is alltime high in Ks all time low AVG’s. They want more offensive hoping to grow the sport. Less Ks means more hits and higher AVG’s.
I really love pitching, the way slight grip differences mack balls cut, run, dive, knuckle and break. I love a good cutter, 2FB and splitter so im all for grip enhancers but they should just name 2-3 that are acceptable and leave it there
Yes
it wae a problem. read the rulebook.
It’s not the same though. Spider tech is a chemist created substance which is miles ahead of what used to be used. It’s like saying the greenies are the same as steroids and hgh. Or that stealing signs from a player on second base reading the catcher is the same as using video and iPads to decipher, read and pass on signs. Technology has far exceeded the gray area of what used to be cheating. It needs to be addressed ASAP or it will continue to get exponentially worse.
The reason why they are enforcing this rule more stringently now than before is to generate more offense. The idea is to generate more contact which would lead to more action. This is an easy non intrusive change. Unlike say banning shifts, moving the mound further back or moving the bases closer.
Also, they have thrown pitchers out of games for cheating and suspended them on many occasions for using various substances and doctoring baseballs. Pineda was ejected for using pine tar, which was on his neck. Brewers pitcher Will Smith was ejected from a game for having pine tar and a glob of sunscreen on his forearm. He said he forgot to wipe it off in the bullpen and was suspended 8 games. Joe Niekro was suspended 10 games around 35 years ago for getting caught with sandpaper and an emery board on the mound.
Nobody told Glasnow he couldn’t ease into his changes the same way he would in ST. He chose to rush it. He could’ve taken something off his pitches if he wasn’t comfortable. I don’t buy that not doctoring the ball magically caused him to blow out his arm, especially because he’s had issues in the past.
Here’s a novel approach… umm… don’t cheat? Learn to pitch instead of how to throw?
have you ever tried to throw a modern MLB baseball? without some grip agent some batter is going to get killed.
The rate of hit batters per game has been over 0.40 the last four years. That’s the highest it’s been, and I’m not exaggerating, since the year 1901. With sunscreen and spider tack and whatever else, pitchers are hitting guys at a rate not seen in 120 years.
Some people are new to MLB and it really shows
Hopefully not but people have been getting hit in the face and head with 95+ mph pitches for years unfortunately. You could make the argument that it could happen more often but it’s not something that’s new.
Is that you Mrs. Glasnow?
Have you seen how many batters have been hit in recent years? That “grip agent” wasn’t really effective at not hitting batters then, so why would it be blamed now?
Yea im new only watching 10yrs, the year younel Escobar wrote a homophobic slur under his eyes and then was traded. I dont remember if it was in the jose reyes deal or if that was after
Bs they’ll get much better at ducking….
It’s not like this new stuff and new applications of it are rosin…..
it has more to do with hitters leaning in.
Use the rosin bag. MLB supplies it in every game. It sits behind the pitcher’s mound and is MLB approved AND is in plain sight (no need to hide it or deny using it). It’s been tested AND approved for decades.
Maybe you should…no foreign substances are allowed on the ball….ever play clown?
Says the clear Rays fan. The rule says no use of foreign substances. So, yes, it is cheating. He’s literally complaining that they should have given him time to learn not to cheat
There’s also a law about going over the speed limit while driving. I’m sure you always stay under 35 while driving, right?
No, but I get a ticket if I get caught speeding too. I don’t just get to tell the officer that he should have told me not to break the law at the beginning of the year, so I could be used to it by summer.
@M Haworth there are a number of rules that are routinely ignored or broken on a consistent basis. Pitchers have been open about using these substances. Baseball was okay with it. Now, all of a sudden they’re not. I’m not saying that doctoring the balls is not cheating. I’m saying MLB handled this wrong.
If there is a stretch of road where the speed limit is 40 and everyone drives 60 for years with no enforcement then all of a sudden there is a radar trap and you get nailed for going 50, then I bet you would be pissed.
It’s not a race track and I am not competing for a job and higher payment.
Pissed?
Sure, but it’s unlikely you don’t get a ticket
Actions have consequences, I think we all forgot that over the last four years, but it’s the way the world usually/actually works
Rosin by itself is legal and is not cheating adding the sunscreen to it to make it far sticker is.
And obviously you know it all, which is why you’re in the Hall of Fame and not some random Internet poster. Oh wait…
All he needs to know is the rule book, you don’t need to be a hall of famer to know the rules of the game
That would mean 95% of players don’t know diddly too? Only HOF players know the rules?
Your argument is full of logical fallacies
Cheating is America’s pastime. Baseball became known as America’s pastime because cheaters didn’t want to be outed and baseball has been full of cheaters since the game was created. Therefore baseball is America’s pastime but really cheating is America’s pastime.
@jimmyz- Does that make me un-American if I’ve never cheated?
No but it does make you a liar too.
Is it really cheating if the league does diddly squat about it for years? I’m glad they’re willing to do something about now, but I see Glasnow’s point that they’re being reactive in a disjointed manner that could mess with pitcher’s routines and force them to make adjustments in a year where injuries are already skyrocketing after the pandemic-shortened season
@cainer – is it really illegal to drive 120mph on the freeway if there’s no speed traps? Is it fair to make people late for work and get them fired because you doubled their commute time by parking a squad car out there giving tickets after not enforcing the speed limit for years?
A better analogy is driving 120 in a world where other drivers and the police are fine with you driving 120
@john If you do absolutely nothing about a behavior, you’re reinforcing it. That will only cause the problem to increase if it’s beneficial to the perpetrators. So even if the law says 120mph is illegal, it will be reinforced if there’s not a single negative consequence. That analogy loses a bit of credence because driving that fast can cause a deadly accident, which in and of itself acts as a negative consequence even without any enforcement of the law, but that’s besides the point. No enforcement and no consequences = the behavior is effectively legal and permitted, regardless of what a law or rule says.
Not so sure John. People who were caught were punished. One of my favorite monikers was Pine Tar Pineda. He was obvious, doing his cheating blatantly in front of everyone and got caught and tossed.
It’s like the police not setting up traps looking for you, but, if they flat out caught you you did get in trouble.
What’s worse in this mid season scenario is mlb was sending memos the last couple offseasons, told everyone this spring “STOP NOW”, then everyone knew mlb was collecting balls/gear for sample testing, suspended guys in the minors, and yet, somehow, a couple months later getting a cease and desist or we will be doing 10 game suspensions notice is a surprise and unfair?
You’d have to be an idiot with your head in the ground not to understand you shouldn’t be using this year….
Well we’re already at being justified in using deadly force if someone looks at you wrong, so why not?
Remember the Red Sox manager actually broke code and went out to home plate umpire in the Pineda instance. He was way too blatant but name another instance in the last 20 years of a manager asking the umpires to check a pitcher
Yes. Just like it’s still speeding if you’re over the speed limit and you don’t get pulled over
To answer your question directly: yes, indeed, it is still cheating.
Sound argument. “I can’t cheat anymore and my body isn’t use to not cheating. So let me cheat”
Maybe these guys who have been into the good stuff should ask to get sent back to the minors so they learn how to pitch again.
So throwing hard without the grip enhancer contributed to the injury? Then yeah, this is absolutely cheating. If you can’t throw that hard, with control, but without the enhancer, then you’re cheating. Knock it off.
But yet isn’t this guy always hurt? So what’s the excuse the other times?
That’s why he annihilated the nationals the previous game while using no substances. Dumb take
It’s the Nationals simmer down. No one is saying he’s not a good pitcher but this is making a good pitcher great.
So what contributed to all the TJSs prior to the substance enforcement? Oh, that’s right, it was all the guys who didn’t cheat, while the cheaters remained healthy. Got it.
If that’s what you got out of this then you need to read it a few more times because that’s not what was said at all.
Just weeks ago, Bauer, and many other pitchers said, they are fine with the rule as long as mlb makes a clear enforcement across-the-board.
Well. Now they are complaining about what they said they wanted.
If you think that then you aren’t really paying attention.
He’s 100% right that doing this mid season is freakin insane. Manfred continues to prove that he is completely clueless as to how to lead the MLB.
Excuse me… But when these guys got offered the sticky substances mid-season… Do you think they all said it was insane to use it mid-season? I doubt it… Just look at Verlander’s numbers the moment he got to Houston as well as Gerrit Cole’s…
They were told before spring training to stop using Spider Tack etc. The pitchers ignore it at their own peril.
And they saw enforcement coming through the minors. They knew this was headed their way for months.
Just wait until my employer tries to make changes mid year. I’ll tell ’em the timing doesn’t suit me!
A memo went out in spring training reiterating that this was illegal and that enforcement would be coming. It was the same memo that said MLB would be collecting equipment and looking at StatCast data to study the issue. Everybody knew about it. Players had time to adjust if they wanted to adjust. They just wanted to cheat as long as possible.
There may well be an uptick in pitcher injuries as people attempt to make a baseball do things they physically can no longer make it do, but the idea that Glasnow throwing four innings without cheating is responsible for his injury is absurd. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was just frustrated, but frankly it sounds like he had this answer rehearsed before he even knew there was a serious problem.
As for Bauer, he can stuff it with his holier-than-thou tweets. Dude was campaigning against using foreign substances and then all the sudden has the exact type of spin rate increases they provide just as he enters his contract year? Gets his balls confiscated but it’s totes nothing? Nothing, alright: Nothing but a hypocrite.
Maybe now pitchers will learn to pitch instead of just heaving as hard as they can all the time. But I doubt it. This will take a generation of baseball players to truly change.
Lol thats your fault glassnow. Feel bad you got injured but don’t blame anyone but yourself.
Rule 3.01 states that “no player shall intentionally discolor or damage the ball by rubbing it with soil, rosin, paraffin, licorice, sandpaper, emery paper or other foreign substance.”
So you cheated (I don’t care that it wasn’t enforced), and now you won’t be as good a pitcher and hurt yourself trying to do things that we’re against the rules. Glad that’s clear.
MLB has changed the ball a whole lot since just the 90’s. They made it into more of a cue ball making the laces flatter and making it harder to control. So no it isnt cheating it is keeping some batter from being killed by a 100mph fastball to the head
The official rulebook says differently.
Uh, yes, it is cheating…
So the guy really doesn’t have the talent to throw 100 m.p.h……
The amount of people on here that attempt (poorly) to argue against reality or just ignore it is crazy, although I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. He cheated. Period. He actually admitted in his comments to doing something that is illegal according to the rules.
Now, I do think he has a point about them enforcing this midseason. It seems an odd choice that they would give out a warning before the season then wait until june to tell the players that they’re totally super cereal now. Maybe they thought these first few months would work as a warning like what Glasnow is saying he wanted, but no one took them seriously? Finally, don’t blame your injury on it, even if you do say that it wasn’t the main contributor. It makes you sound immature and it comes off as you saying you can’t pitch without cheating for fear that your arm will explode.
Sorry, but HBP’s have continually gone up since this cheating became rampant. This was cheating, plain and simple. These pitchers weren’t doing it to protect hitters. They were doing it to be more effective, winning games, and most of all, to increase their salaries.
The whole protect the hitters thing is absolute nonsense. Protecting the hitter legally would be more about finding exactly how much spin you can reliably put on a pitch and still control it, and pitch within that window. Right now, pitchers think they can overthrow everything due to the grip and if it slips it’s fa more disastrous.
Suck it up, babies
He’s correct. They should not enforce this on pitchers in mid-season. They’re basically forcing this group of pitchers to do something that no group of MLB pitchers have ever faced before. Have access to NO grip substances beyond rosin and make this change in mid-season, all while coming off a shortened 2020. Insanity.
Like someone said… Do side sessions, go to the minors… You know… Thats what hitters do when they can’t hit.
Someone? lol.
Why do people post useless comments like this? Who cares about the use of the word “someone”? Do you have anything insightful to say?
The couch coaches and pretend experts who flamed out after middle school baseball know more than professional athletes, this entire comment section is a screaming example.
Ding ding ding! Well said.
Then I guess you should just shutup then, huh?
Ding ding ding! better point
I think you’re giving them too much credit assuming they even made it to middle school before flaming out.
He’s right about me. My baseball career ended around middle school. The internet wasn’t really popular back then, but my other life goal was to post typo-riddled rants on a baseball rumors site. And while it may be sad that my baseball career never panned out, I think I accomplished my other dream.
Never played baseball past middle ball but I didn’t have to. I know what cheating is and if you were cheating then had to change because of it. You DESERVE to get hurt
What a sticky situation he has gotten into.
I would say this is a bit tacky given the situation.
That is a different spin on it
I don’t think he has a grip on what the issue is
Can you two get a grip?
I think these comments need more substance.
The Stones were all over this topic back in 71.
Their best album imho.
Hear, hear! Next we will have the government telling us they are going to start cracking down on murder without any kind of a grace period to ween ourselves off said murder. I realize murder has always been illegal but that doesn’t give them the right to just start enforcing it more vigorously. Why can’t these institutions just allow us to be adults without actually treating us as such?
I remember when the legal limit for alcohol was set to .08%….. it took one guy I knew 6 years and 5 DUIs to adjust.
So Glasnow’s dream is winning a Cy Young and being an all star. I woulda thought helping his team win a championship would be first on the list.
You can help your team to a championship if you only play a fraction of the season and are injured during the AS Break. You can’t win a CY or get an AllStar nod if you only play a fraction of the season and are injured during the AS Break. But yeah, since he mentioned those two goals instead, he probably hates winning and isn’t a team player. You know the real priorities. Good for you.
How does his grip on a baseball have anything to do with the UCL? Not doubting, just curious.
His (extra) grip on the baseball has more to do with the health and well-being of his next contract then it does his UCL.
And after using substances to increase grip, not using will make it feel like there is no grip at all.
I would guess he has to grip the ball harder, or at least mentally, and that can lead to more strain on the elbow? Regardless, if you’re that relient on it, idk how you got to the show
He said he had to adjust the grip.on his pitches. The adjusted grip will also cause a change in mechanics to try and get all the spin you can out of a pitch.
MLB is so mean for not letting this man cheat… It’s all your fault!!
Or maybe you’re not that talented Mr Glasnow if you need to cheat to be successful.
You know what teenagers use in 3rd world countries to pitch? They use dirt and sweat, not even rosin.
So stop the excuses, you got injured because the UCL has a limit and those 97 mph fastballs and 88 mph sliders come at a price.
They use dirt and rosin, and they get fat contracts based on velocity and physique. You’re talking about a long list of players who flamed out due to wildness.
Unless you can give an example of a teenager who came over from a ‘third world’ country and was known to be successful in the big leagues without the use of any foreign substances, your point doesn’t really seem to stand.
I can give you many because I played with a lot of them… With these kids the issue wasn’t using sticky stuff… It was their date of birth, then the problem was PED’s given to them by the so-called “buscones”… Guys that want to get you a deal and make some money on the side off of you.
And I’m not a teenager, so right now maybe some of them use spider tak or rosin… But the vast majority still use dirt and their own sweat since they don’t have the resources or even knowledge to get this stuff… Let alone an Amazon account to even order anything.
And I used to think the Three Stooges were funny.
They are funny
Glasgow has a point and they are doing the same thing in Horse Racing.
Changing things midstream
A lot of it is about jealously in horse racing and I am willing to bet the same in Baseball too
It’s not about jealously… But if you’re a hitter (and that’s roughly half of all MLB players) you’d feel like you’re losing money because pitchers are cheating and you cannot put the numbers you’re capable of putting.
You don’t wanna get fired at work because half the employees do better than you by cheating… Right?
Capi…How did the pitchers feel when ManFraud juiced the ball tho ya know??
Its like a back and forth game of battleship except every move seems to be a direct kill and the game is more about blowing up shit than based on skill and strategy – Everyone is losing here
I agree… But they changed the juiced ball, now they need to remove the sticky stuff to make it fair.
It goes both ways, I agreed with the pitchers and the juiced balls, now I agree with the batters and the sticky stuff.
MLB already has helped the batters. they changed the ball to make it a tighter inside wrap and flattened the laces to make it more of a cue ball when thrown. some batter is going to get hurt or killed by one of these pitchers without some kind of grip help.
Maybe it will only hit the batter going 95 instead of 100 and the batter will survive?
There. A life saved, makes the enforcement worth it.
I know it sounds crazy but I believe there should be a rule any pitch thrown over 95 mph should be called a ball or worse *pending …
I know I know what about yesteryear and such forth, the history…yada yada ….screw it , screw it all . Lets think about today and tomorrow
You throw a pitch over 95 , automatic ball or if player hits it to a positive result you can obv take that result for offensive team-
Calibrate the guns every game – The every pitcher needing to attempt to throw 98 is a top 3 concern in the game for me – It kills pace, it kills action, and it kills arms/big time Big league investments
Probably seems barbaric at first but I think it could grow on people if introduced – Id drop the gun limit 9th inn an beyond ….give gas a place still but I think you’d get a better game the first 8 inns this way
Honest? Is this a joke? How is getting hurt while cheating being honest? And then complain about being hurt because you couldn’t cheat any more. This is what honesty is to you? Get a grip
Not cheating hurt some pitchers’ numbers and cost them financially
Did you really use that as an argument? Haha.
I don’t recall ANYONE coming on this site and arguing that the Astros and Red Sox should continue to steal signs illegally because their hitters would be negatively affected financially.
If you cheated to make the money, and now you turn to shit once the rules are enforced, then be glad you made what money you did.
Medina Spirit wasnt ex post facto. Baffert knew what his men gave that horse was illegal. terrible analogy.
At EVERY crisis point Manfred shows a distinct lack of leadership, forethought, and common sense. His “solutions” are spineless when they need to be firm, reactionary when they need to be measured, and have the distinct flavor that they are driven by social media rather than common sense. This commish wants MLB to be structured like the NBA, fundamentally changing the game in so many ways we soon wont be able to reconcile the history of the game with the “product” he wants us to buy.
Well… The NBA is doing a lot better than MLB right now and yes, part of that is because of Manfred and especially how he handled the Astros/Red Sox scandal.
But I think he’s doing the right thing by moving fast on this situation… If Glasnow got hurt after pitching 2 times without this substance… Then how the heck has he been pitching even before he got drafted? Has he been cheating this whole time?
Great Q Capi!!!!
Im selling this BS, hate to see anyone get injured but No thanks on this dish
Huh.
Well…this is certainly something.
He wasn’t using sunscreen; please ..
If your going to throw a grenade into a building at least be upfront and honest the whole way –
This is the problem with baseball, its all half-truths all around and when you digest it all it just makes you want to spill it out your backside as quick as it was consumed –
What a mess
well said. MLBTR preciously linked to an article that evaluated spin rate and different substances. sunscreen and rosin bumped up numbers very minutely and only on certain pitches, not across the board. He’s not even admitting to the half of it
Yeah… Sunscreen… A guy that pitches under in a dome… No sun in there.
Yea sunscreen doesn’t do much, the hitters would actually prefer pitchers use that on a moist humid day in all honesty. Sunscreens been commonplace since the 70’s and has little to no effect
My first thoughts upon reading title was this dudes a huge friggin Liar !! Kind of embarrassing tbh considering the boldness of wanting to be painted a victim here
Agreed… Batters will usually tell you they don’t mind sunscreen, rosin and even pine tar… It’s all the new stuff that’s increasing their spin rates by 200 and even 500 in some cases that batters are complaining about.
I’d comment but must deliver my 1000 pound drum of Spider Tac to the Trop……oh ya, and those trash can covers…..
But seriously folks, if MLB DIDN’T consult the MLBPA about this, they’ll be hell to play. A CBA for 2022? Ya…….
A disaster indeed …..Like 2 parents who just had a child and think they can tough it out for 17 more years together……… It will only get uglier
Not sure MLBPA needs to be consulted about enforcing a rule that’s on the books, but I thought things went too far when Selig had to negotiate having the AS game determine WS home-field advantage. Yeah, THAT was a radical change in working conditions…
Give you time to not cheat? If you get hurt because you need to learn not to cheat you DESERVE to get injured. End of story
So here we are. Let’s just stop something cold turkey. Not so easy is it! I mean that is like telling a smoker to quit cold turkey. Do I care if pitchers use a substance for better grip? No, not at all, not if the loss of the grip is going to ride in and hit somebody in the face. If I was a batter I would rather them use something so they could pitch/throw more accurately instead of getting hit.
But here we have MLB taking action on something that has been going on for years, and when I say years I mean far more than the last four years. Yet MLB wants to stop it! Who is going to stop MLB from constantly manipulating the baseball themselves? A rule should put into place that states that this is the ball we are going to use and never change it from that point on.
No more doctoring the ball so that the offense has an advantage and then turn around and say that there is too much offense let’s help the pitchers out and fix the baseball again. MLB needs to be just as equal as those they are trying to manipulate.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
If a batter gets hurt and someone blames it on a lack of spider tack costing them control they are an idiot.
The person to blame is the person exceeding their abilities and control.
Its called PITCHING not HURLING/THROWING. You don’t rear back and toss it as hard as humanly possible relying on cheating and illegal substances to hopefully get it near the target.
You pitch with control at whatever speed is comfortable in your delivery and gets the ball in location in a controlled manner WITHOUT ILLEGAL DOCTORING/SUBSTANCES.
Koji Uehara wasn’t throwing 100mph or trying to. He was putting up gaudy numbers throwing high 80s/very low 90s.
If you can’t control your pitch at 98mph, don’t throw 98mph. If you do, and you hurt someone, there’s nobody to blame but yourself.
if you think Koji wasnt using some grip helper you are an idiot who never has tried to throw a modern MLB baseball
His grip helper was called sheer talent
I can see it now.. pitchers are butt-hurt over the substance enforcement and start throwing at batters after preemptively warning it’s going to happen. Batters then start throwing bats at pitchers and claim they thought the rule applied to them too, and stopped using pine tar.
Strikeouts are fascist. Throw some ground balls.
Always remarkable to me how good of a job mlb does at manipulating the fan base into believing that they’re on the side of fairness and justice.
I don’t think mlb cares a whit. It doesn’t have to. Cheating is cheating and that’s the bottom line. If you don’t cheat you don’t have to make the adjustment
Stan. Name your favorite pitcher. I’ll stop you right there—he cheated.
I’m not saying he didn’t. I think they all cheat. Doesn’t make it right though. And if you get caught you should be punished. And if you get hurt because you were cheating and are trying not to you still deserve whatever injury happens because of it. Just because it’s my favorite player or team doesn’t change that. I still think what happened with Pettitte and Clemens regarding PEDs was not only called for but not enough
MLB’s fanbase is not exactly the sharpest group. They’re easily manipulated.
This has little to do with the MLB. This is an issue of batter v pitcher, and the MLB is trying to keep it fair. What is the alternative? Just do nothing and allow pitchers to take razor blades to the ball?
A few weeks ago Glasnow was complaining that Jays hitters must have been sign stealing because they got to him one game.
Now he’s complaining that he can no longer use illegal substances to grip a ball better.
He does a lot of whining doesn’t he?
Watch it. He’s gonna cal his dad and then you’ll be in big trouble!
Hard to read the mostly sarcastic humorless posts here on this topic. Glasnow comes clean,
and the clowns here start performing. The MLB needs to allow some control of
the EVER CHANGING BASEBALL.
If MLB did not screw with the BB, none of this would be happening.
You play with the rules and equipment you’re given. If you choose to cheat you choose to cheat and you’re a cheater. If you try to make your delivery legal because it’s being cracked down on and get hurt… no one said you had to cheat in the first place.
Just like no one forced player to take steroids no one forced pitched to use illegal substances
you just reinforced the first part of my post. Thanks.
Huh?
Well. While I don’t wear big shoes and a red nose, I don’t really see how having an opinion on cheating is being a clown. And then to top that off giving the actual definition of cheating is just factual it’s not even an opinion like you’re tossing out there
Manfred??
Stan –try changing your major from statistics to creative writing,
with a minor in whining
Lol. Cheaters should be punished. That’s not whining that’s good sense.
Mlb wouldn’t be making changes to the ball if pitchers didn’t keep looking for newer and better illegal substances. Had they just stuck to sunscreen I’d wager nothing would’ve ever happened. But they didn’t did they?
Pitchers had to keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing. Bringing in substances that went beyond helping a little grip in thr cold/rain and went way over the line to push spin rate and gain an unfair advantage over the hitters.
So, now you can’t stop a game for a couple hours to test what substance a pitcher is using. You need to make a blanket prohibition against everything.
The only ones to blame for this is the users themselves.
It’s quite simple, imo. You play with the tools that baseball allows. If you are the best pitcher in BB, then you are likely to continue to be the best pitcher in BB. The issue is some pitchers are cheating, and some are not. That’s what makes it unfair.
Don’t get me wrong, manfred is a total clown, but for the players to complain about how they are now going to enforce a rule is insane. Again, this should’ve been nipped in the bud years ago, but to act like the victim when you shouldn’t have been doing it in the first place is wrong too
If MLB hadnt changed the ball into more of a cue ball then the way it is supposed to be the pitchers would have a grip called the LACES. but MLB flattened them. now pitchers need some grip or someone is going to get hurt or killed by a pitch
Then allow a controlled substance. This has no doubt been handled terribly by the league, but the players shouldn’t be whining like they are when a rule finally gets enforced, because they shouldn’t have been doing it in the first place
the terrible handling started years before Manfred was even alive. not properly enforcing this rule was a long standing problem. lets give Rob some credit for fixing a problem so many were scared or apathetic to do anything about
Maybe if pitchers weren’t using anything to help them cheat they wouldn’t have to suddenly adjust. It is however fun to hear Bauer complain since he made a lot of noise when the Astros got caught cheating.
And Bauer was a mediocre pitcher, at best, before using sticky stuff. It will be fun to watch him become average again.
Bauer kept raising it and nobody did anything about it. MLB didn’t care and let everyone cheat. Bauer got tired of it and joined in the fun. He was almost mocking everyone but saying see I can pitch like a Cy Young award winner too if I get to cheat. Now that we are seeing runs scored severely down, MLB suddenly cares. Interesting how that works. It’s all relative. Pitchers’ production should decline now but the pitchers that will now shine are the ones with better control that don’t rely on just stuff and can just flat out pitch.
Bauer is not the bad guy, people don’t seem to do any research for themselves. Bauer wanted sticky stuff out of the game (or standardize it), even going far enough to share how much extra spin he can get with it, then mlb did nothing, so he said eff it and started using it. He’s using it so he’s not blameless, but when three quarters of your coworkers are cheating and doing better than you with less skill (and making millions more than you), that’d put a bee in your bonnet too.
Spot on. I’m not a Bauer fan but I really enjoyed when he called out the astros for all of their pitchers spin rates magically getting better, and I like how he clowns manfred. He’s not, nor any pitcher really, is in the wrong for getting by with something the league should’ve stopped. For pitchers to be complaining now though is ridiculous
Cheaters are cheaters,and come up with a million excuses.
Buckle up buttercup.
Hopefully this interview result was just an emotional reaction to his injury and extended time off.
This move should have been done in ST but the lack of hitting this year had to be dealt with.I doubt that anyone saw the record low batting average coming.The year 1968 produced only one 300 hitter in the AL and he won the triple crown.
Too many whiners in this country who do not appreciate what they have.
Buckle up, Pansy. You are one-sided. You care about pitchers doctoring but not the other side, hypocrite!
who are you talking to soldier?
Proud-Who are you calling Pansy?
Yes, I agree that he is admitting it, manning up. However, what are your feelings about MLB doctoring baseballs? Let’s make it equal.
MLB can do what it wants. It’s their choice and their rules. MLB makes the rules the players are supposed to play by them. That’s how the world and baseball works
Stan- That is how the world and baseball should work.
Unfortunately,it is becoming the exception to the rule because of the loosening of standards.
Agreed. Don’t get me railing on the fall of American society. It makes me feel like a crotchety old man to denounce participation awards reality shows and social media pages. Even if I am right about it in my opinion
Guy seems fragile.
If you can’t do the time don’t commit the crime.
I get what he is saying, being used to one thing for years and having to change right away, but it is cheating. It may not have been enforced for years but it’s always been illegal. Don’t cheat in the first place and it wouldn’t be an issue.
That is exactly my point, I have no problem suspending pitchers for using substances, but be equal about it. MLB needs to decide on a baseball and stick {excuse the pun} to those specifications. Then enforce the pitchers, force them to pitch according to the baseball that will not change ever.
Fun fact: Bauer and Glasnow went to the same high school.
Unrelated, random, but interesting.
I can’t cheat and now I am hurt?
What a weak willed pathetic excuse for an athlete.
This guy is always injured. What was his excuse the other times?
Guy needs to get a grip ( pun intended )
Boo Hoo.
Beside that suffering UCL injury is terrible. Hopefully he gets healthy and uses the next year to learn how to be a man and play the game the right way.
Manning up and admitting it? Manning up is coming forward before you complain about the MLB changing it’s rules. This is like a thief admitting he stole after getting caught with your TV in his hands. Don’t give this guy credit for a thing
I clearly see your point. I just want rules for pitchers and rules for the baseball design to be equal.
Please just use the reply button
Counterpoint: they announced the change coming and you could have pulled yourself out of games until you felt comfortable. MLB did research this year, way slower than it should have of course, and surprise, it was worse than they thought. It’s been a topic for two years, you could have stopped assuming MLB was going to do nothing I guess?
You’re correct! However, right now only one side is being pulled over.
MLB 100% could’ve handled this better and the reason it’s happening now is because of increased publicity (Bauer, SI report, etc), which isn’t a good reason.
But, if a substance allows you to use that much of a different grip for certain pitches, then it’s an unfair advantage. That’s above and beyond getting a good grip.
MLB never handles anything until it blows in their faces… PED’s, sign stealing, sticky stuff, juiced balls…
They’ve turned a blind eye on all of it because it makes them money.
The answer is always money. Good point
So many excuses… Does it matter that MLB decided to enforce it now (even though they’ve had months to adjust) or that they changed the ball every season?
If you cheat, you’re a cheater and you’re breaking the rules… Period… Glasnow is a cheater and he needs to stop cheating… No one forced him to cheat and he was the one that altered his grip/delivery and got hurt.
Some people say if MLB didn’t change the ball none of this would’ve happened and well… If Glasnow didn’t cheat, maybe this doesn’t happen either. (Or maybe it does because the elbow can’t handle all that effort forever).
It’s not the recent change in the baseball that has led to pitchers doing this as doctoring the baseball has been an issue for decades. If the ball is truly that slippery now then just fix the damn ball! Raise the seams and make the leather more tacky. That way, no more excuses for using substances for gripping purposes. Let’s face it, the real reason they use the substances is to increase both velocity and spin rate. Time to get that out of the game.
Not trying to avoid your point. But I have posted about this before. A huge, and I mean huge percentage of TJS occurred after going from a four-man rotation to a five-man rotation. I do not know if that is a difference or not but have always wondered if that is part of it.
Kind of agree and with Glasnow, It is not great to change it in the middle of the season. MLB still makes $$$ from videos of players they banned from the hall. That’s how much integrity they have.
But if they didn’t change it during the season, how would teams know how to approach free agency. I’m sure some pitchers will have a harder time adjusting than others. If I was a GM, I’d be hesitant to spend big on free agent pitchers if I hadn’t gotten a chance to see how they look without the sticky stuff. This way, you can compare the pitcher before and after to have a better idea of what to expect in the future.
This has been in the rule books forever. Enforcement is a different issue but you can’t complain about enforcement when the actual rule has never changed. Grow up and admit your mistake. If pitchers really need more grip than baseball should make the seems bigger or more grippable. Something that’s equal for all but spider tak or whatever other sticky stuff isn’t the answer, it’s cheating.
So MLB isn’t cheating even though they are constantly changing the baseball. There should only be one baseball and it should not be manipulated.
That’s not cheating because they’re just changing the equipment… It’s the same as the NBA or NFL changing the ball.
Who exactly is MLB cheating? Was MLB “cheating” when they changed the height of the mound in the late 60’s? Was MLB “cheating” when the rule that a ball that landed fair and bounced into the stands was a homerun was changed to making it a double?
No, they are the company. If they want to change their product every year, that’s their right. Not sure how you can think that the organization, the one that makes the rules, is somehow “cheating” and breaking the rules. There is no rule against MLB changing the baseball. There is a rule, and always has been, about using foreign substances to get a better grip.
At least he’s honest and open about it.
Translation: I got hurt because you told me I couldn’t cheat anymore!!
The best part is MLB isnt cracking down on foreign substances because cheating is wrong! No its because offense is down and thats costing mlb money. Thats America baby
Tread lightly, fella
That’s also probably true
Look at the spin rates on his pitches and others. It’s ridiculous that hitters are are expected to hit pitches at 95+ mph let alone pitches that fast with that much spin
i doubt that’s just a US thing. simple economics.
Enforce the rule. If Glasnow wants to make a sound argument, ask why hitters are allowed to use pine tar, hand grip you’d see on aluminum bats on a major league bat, batting gloves, tape, elbow guards, forearm guards, hand guards, shin guards. Ask why hitters are allowed to have more advantages than pitchers. Then call on the league to push every fence back and lift the mound back to 15 inches high, as that’s another change from half a century ago to aid offense.
Glasnow’s current excuse is not good enough.
Give me a freakin break. You got injured, just like hundreds of other pitchers do. Always gotta blame somebody else though. It’s not your fault you were knowingly breaking the rules. Grow up dude and own up to your own faults. What an entitled jerkoff
Remember when MLB used to be fun and entertaining? Manfred is a liberal idiot. Not just an idiot, but the dumbest of all idiots—a liberal idiot.
that makes no sense and is way too political for this site.
Love all the commenters who lament that Glasgow was “cheating.” Well known that the majority of pitchers are using something to help them grip the ball. You can lament that just because everyone is doing it doesn’t make it right but MLB has basically looked the other way intentionally. The powers that be actually condoned that cheating. So why make a deal of it now? OMG offense was down to start the year but guess what, it is picking up now that the weather is warming.
Glasgow is not wrong. IF anything was going to be done should have been done in the off season, not mid season. But add this to the list of things MLB has screwed up over the past few years.
What?!?! LOL! Astros fans everywhere are wondering where this energy was when they were caught cheating.
Everyone was doing it- check
MLB knew and looked the other way- check
New rule should have been enforced in the off-season- check
Thanks for being a hypocrite!
I guess you missed the part where, BEFORE THE 2021 SEASON, mlb told all the players to stop using spider tack and its ilk.
Then, seeing statcast data and spin rates weren’t changing for suspected users, MLB publicly collected balls and equipment from suspected violators and random samples to gauge whether players were complying voluntarily.
Based on the sampling the problem was worse than suspected, and no serious attempts to follow the pre-season directives were being made by many pitchers.
So, mlb then gave more warnings, in private to teams and suspected users, then publicly in the blanket memo.
Point is, GLASNOW WAS TOLD BEFORE THE 2021 SEASON NOT TO USE HIS GRIP ENHANCER. HE CHOSE TO KEEP CHEATING, likely trying to call what he thought was mlbs bluff. He was wrong.
this is the biggest pile of crap ive seen. ITS ILLEGAL. ITS BEEN ILLEGAL. just because they are now issuing punishments, doesnt mean it wasnt illegal before. dont play the victim because cheating is now not profitable. its guys like these that are ruining the game.
If the league didn’t change the balls every year, and they stopped rubbing them up before hand, I’d agree.
But players are throwing harder than ever, with a ball that’s as hard to grip/control as ever. Who the heck wants to stand in the box against Chapman on a humid day and he has no grip?
The fall out of this is going to be a lot more HBP and injuries, just watch
there is no proof this stuff stops HBPs, and there is no reason these guys cant throw slower. and in reality is, i dont care. its cheating. follow the rules of the game.
Yeah, HBP is already at an all time high. Seems like the “sticky grip helps keep people from getting hit” argument is complete nonsense. More people using sticky stuff than ever before, more HBP than ever before.
This guy’s got a point like all the way. Why the rush? We the fans could have waited.
Do not assume you speak for all fans. As you can clearly see by the comments, there is no single fan response.
He just doesn’t want to see Gerrit Cole go back to his Pittsburgh ways because then they would be stuck with ANOTHER ridiculous contract for another under performing player. Haha
Honestly, now is the worst time to start pulling this type of garbage. This should have been done during the offseason like they did about suspending players for using steroids.
If the problem comes from sudden enforcement, then the pitchers worried about injury without substance use should forgo the rest of the season and salaries and prep for next year without substance use.
Leo Mazzone may be a hot commodity. A pitching coach.
This is all so pointlessly stupid. Make a baseball that pitchers can grip and the problem is solved. Period.
Instead, MLB dicks around with the ball every year. Does any other sport monkey around with a ball that is touched by players’ hands? Water polo? Cricket? Volleyball? Bocce? Tetherball? Ping pong? Marbles?
Fix the damn ball, idiots!
Maybe the problem is that pitchers want a ball with different_better capabilities than what their employer (MLB) wants?
Could be the baseball mlb is tweaking performs just fine without horrendous control/grip issues if you throw 92-94 instead of 98-102?
Could be that guys began taking too extreme of liberties in an effort to pad their own stats, wanting to boost spin rates instead of just get a little grip?
They killed the Golden goose. Now they need to deal with it.
I agree. Raise the seams again, get them out of the climate controlled settings, wind them not as tight, and play ball. Amazingly, you may see “pitchers” again as opposed to “throwers” and maybe a decrease in arm injuries. Just a thought…
The problem is not the baseball. The problem is that some people want to use the baseball in ways they cannot unless they use enhancements. This goes for both batters and pitchers. For example, a pitcher may be able to throw 90 with some control, but wants to throw 98 with the same control because that is where the bigger contract sits, so they use a substance to enhance their grip that let them. Without the substance, they lose control and either pitch at 90 or have a short career. Is the game better at 90 or 98? Like the DH and artificial turf (older debate), that is a personal preference.
Changing the baseball in any way changes the game and benefits one type of player over another.
Here’s a thought. Are bats still wood?
Duh. Fix the ball.
This is NOT rocket science, it’s not about velocity and spin rate, that’s baloney. It’s the damn ball.
Fix the ball.
It’s not the ball when pitchers have been using this stuff to make themselves better for years.
ive never seen a sport so angry about the equipment. you play to the game’s equipment. the ball is hard to grip? ADAPT. everyone’s usong the
Understand this: there are specific rules regulating bats, BUT, every batter gets to choose the bat that is best for him. It’s NOT one size fits all. There are specific rules regulating gloves, BUT, every fielder gets to choose the glove that’s best for him. It’s NOT one size fits all. Then you come to the ball, the most strictly defined piece of equipment in baseball and YET it’s the one piece of equipment where the players have NO CONTROL, NO INPUT into the final product that gets handed to them. That is truly pathetic. Let’s have one bat for every hitter and one glove for every fielder and let THEM figure it out? Of course not, it’s absurd.
Do you get my point? Certainly, baseball doesn’t.
This is just simple common sense.
@whyhayzee- name a major sport where each player hits to choose his or her own ball.
Basketball? Wouldn’t some players like a smaller ball or one with more grip?
Football? Would guys like softer or firmer balls, rougher surfaces? Synthetic vs natural?
Soccer? A smaller ball, more or less air pressure, etc?
Tennis? A ball that bounces different or has a different surface?
We can keep going. Personal equipment can vary but the sport ball puck or whatever is always uniform.
Or do you want mlb to make 500 different baseballs tailored to each pitcher, reliever, catcher, etc preference? That’s just plain stupid.
Worst argument I’m this entire thread. And there are a lot of dumb arguments in this thread.
You missed my point COMPLETELY. Same ball for everyone. But before you finalize the ball for good, get as many pitchers’ input as possible within the regulations of the ball. Create a ball that the pitchers can be comfortable with, and STOP CHANGING IT!
This has NEVER happened. And yet batters choose their bats and fielders choose their gloves, again within the regulations. This is NOT complicated.
If I’m a smart employer, I make sure to give my employees a say in their work environment. They feel involved and will be more productive. Again, I can’t stress this enough, it’s not complicated.
Holy cow.
So I can’t comment on his injury concern, I just hope not.
But MLB and Manfred has butchered this. No one asked for this and not only did they let it play out publicly, they did it in the middle of the season as if there was some sort of urgency around it.
Im not sure how or why Manfred continues to have a job, he is slowly but surely deteriorating this great game.
Lifelong baseball fan and I couldn’t agree more. If you want to start enforcing it then fine, but he’s utterly butchered this. He’s singlehandedly digging baseball into a hole they’ll never be able to climb out of.
Holy cow- he has the audacity to complain that he can’t cheat? Screw you whiner boy. How bout u learn how to pitch ? F’n baby
Soooooo Tyler G was….cheating?
So he basically admitted to cheating
After playing, coaching, and watching baseball for the better part of 50 years now, Glasnow has a very valid point. Pitchers, catchers, and position players have been doctoring the ball forever, and now they want to do something because of the way the game has turned? Hypocritical?
you’re a baseball lifer and think cheating’s fine because the enforcement wasnt behind the rule before? cmon.
By the standards of these commenters, every pitcher in the MLB is a cheater. Get rid all of them and replace them with the commenters. MLB normalizes this and then pulls the rug out from under every pitcher in the sport and then fans act like the players got it wrong. Players did what generations of players did before them. You can’t just ask half the players in the sport to change the way they play the game. Who cares if it is a rule or not. If you’re not going to enforce it for decade and hard stop the other direction people are going to be frustrated and have a right to be.
Pretty sad the KBO figured this out before the MLB. Pretty sad the KBO is run better than the MLB.
Oh and all y’all are probably the ones surfing the web at work. (Literally the same thing. Cheating out of work to comment on people cheating.)
I won’t deny that MLB is a joke but at the end of the day foreign substances have been against the rules for a very long time. Players who chose to ignore because their wasn’t enforcement still knew they were breaking the rule. Which means they knew the risk involved as far as punishment.
Glasnow had forearm issues that caused him to miss much of 2019. Forearm strains/tightness/pain is commonly the precursor to elbow injuries. I would say he would be heading for the same issues with his elbow whether they started enforcement now or the off-season. To throw consistently in the high 90s and to throw his jar slider plus his huge curve put tremendous strain on a human arm sticky stuff or not.
Glasnow got injured because arms get hurt when they throw 100mph thousands of times. Of course he wants to rationalize it. It sucks. You hope he gets better soon. But its not the sticky stuff, or lack thereof.
Glasnow sure loves to blame everyone but himself.
And foreign substances are not cheating. Who cares if its in the rule book? Mlb has known and allowed this for forever. Its human nature to push the limits of whats allowed to better yourself. Jaywalking is illegal in most states. Find me one person in life who hasn’t illegally broken this embarrassing law. “Its illegal, put him in prison. He broke the law.”
breaking the rules to your benefit is the textbook definition of cheating.
Milwaukee is leading New Jersey significantly at the half in the NBA playoffs. Reportedly. the MLB decision to enforce “stickyball” rules has a LOT to do with this…
Evidently…I guess the NBA will break out the old ABA red, white, and blue balls next year, or maybe go to the WNBA 23.5 size ball?
Take away pine tar on the bats which give batters more grip. Take away Batting gloves as well.. If they are going to enforce a sticky substance rule then enforce it game wide.
We see Bats covered in pine tar, when was the last time someone checked to make sure it wasn’t too high? We see pine tar on helmets, on batting gloves.. Matter of fact MLB keeps the balls in a humidor at Coors field.. Now we regulate altitude? They shouldn’t have let a MLB team in Colorado based on the altitude.
The law is the law. If you break the law but don’t get caught it’s still breaking the law. Whiny little babies.
Not to mention these guys cheated their way to a paycheck.
MLB is based on the past. Everyone are chasing the numbers. Back when baseball was fun to watch, back when it was Americas past time. Put an asterisk on the different eras and let them play the game. Steroid era, sticky stuff era.
Baseball was fun during the steroid era, Everyone got bent because they compare the game to the past bygone era.
Back when baseball was fun.
Back when Baseball was watchable.
Let them have every competitive edge they can get so we can enjoy this game again
The MLB has been front and center of covering their own asses while they were the main drug pushers of the last century.. from Cocaine, to amphetamines, to steroids to sticky substances.. the MLB has openly advocated or openly allowed the usage as long as it was a positive to their bottom line.. but once it became an issue to them.. then they blame the players for behaviors they have encouraged and condones.. just Look at Micky Mantle.. who when he felt he needed something to help him.. he turned to the trainer.. just like the rest of the players throughout the league.. Please read.. grantland.com/features/the-last-boy/
Glasnkw is an idiot. I figured some body would end up blaming injuries on it
He’s wrong in the sense he should never have been used to using an extra substance to pitch.
I can also understand his perspective though, as MLB has shown no strict stance on this until now and they’re making a change mid season which doesn’t make sense.
They should have a real process after the season with input from current and former players about what should be legal and what is not.
Btw, sunscreen? For grip? I’m guessing its the mixture with rosin but does it really make that much difference?
Michael McHenry, former catcher, is now a color analyst, studio host for Pirates baseball. The other night during the game he mixed some rosin with some sunscreen and put the ball in the palm of his hand then turned it over and the ball stayed put in the palm of his hand. I would say the combo is pretty sticky.
Players have become blatant about adding whatever sticky to the ball…. Its been going on forever, and it’s never been a good look for the fans watching and questioning the integrity of the sport… No time better than the present to cut that out from the game…. Will they continue to use whatever? Sure… maybe stop being so obvious? Accept the small suspension/consequence if you do add whatever
Hmmm, so not cheating led to his injury?
Why not just make the baseballs a little more tacky? They could apply something to the leather that allows for a better grip…problem solved! Pitchers have claimed the newer baseballs are very slippery and hard to keep a grip on and that is their reason for using substances. Take away the slippery baseball issue and this should all just go away. If it doesn’t, then start suspending pitchers.
We hear a lot of complaining about the ball from the Pitchers, but what about the Fielders?. Also wouldn’t there be more throwing errors? Wouldn’t fielders notice the substances on the ball?
Lots of questions to probably never be answered…
Worth repeating…on the Braves/Red Sox telecast, Dave O’Brien noted a huge sign that appears behind home plate in Atlanta…thought ads for “Gorilla Glue” might not be a good idea today….
I see an extended STRIKE….
Yup. If I’m MLBPA I’m asking for Manfreds resignation before I start negotiating.
so the owners can replace him with another mouthpiece of theirs’?
Theo to the rescue!
Does this reflect on the organizations Glasnow has been with? In Pittsburgh, he struggled with control. In Tampa Bay, he suddenly found it.
Manfred (and his predecessor) has done just two right things : fair warning on electronic sign stealing in real time, and fair warning on this, then bringing the hammer down after fair warning.
My problem with my Astros is ONLY that they KEPT doing it, after fair warning, then threw each other under the bus afterwards; same with Glasnow here. This is pretty pathetic, as were the responses of Hinch and Luhnow, as were the apology tours of Keuchel et al, and the steroid tears and apology tours.
On the other hand, MLB needs to pick a ball, any ball, from 1969 through 1992, excluding ’87, and use those exact specs on every ball used for play from here on out, and stop manipulating the game and its fans with secret ball construction, once and for all.
Finally (as in 1968 a bit) not EVERY team is suffering under the spin regime – Astros lead majors in runs scored, and fewest batter k’s, and batting average, by a wide margin. Those three things almost ALWAYS go together. They are hitting .275. As a team. TTO is a load of crap, and I’m not sure why ANY front office did not recognize it as such from the get go. Good luck with your TTO in the post-season against top-notch, thinking, pitchers.
I made numerous posts pertaining to the use of foreign substances by pitchers as cheating to partially rationalize cheating by the Astros during 2017. As players should be allowed to steal signs without the use of live monitoring and relays systems, so should pitchers be allowed to use sunscreen and rosin to strengthen their grip. The use of weightlifters hand grip obviously is overboard, just as the Astros use of the television monitors. There is a happy medium both for hitters and pitchers. Interestingly enough, in Japan the balls are textured to help pitchers grip. MLB balls are much slicker. I wonder if MLB could rough/texturize the leather covering up a bit to help pitchers.
suade
Thanks Tyler for admitting that you are a cheater by saying not using a foreign substance is why you got hurt.
So, one of them is the poster boy for the crackdown and another has just openly admitted to doing it…
Is it possible that all of these pitchers who leave the Pirates and suddenly become great simply cheat more than they did in Pittsburgh? Are the Pirates the lone sucker team that doesn’t cheat?
Or does Nutting buy the cheap sunscreen and generic rosin?
Josh-Cole wears a Boras hat immediately after his team loses the World Series.Glasnow complains and whines when he admits to cheating.His aspirations have nothing to do with team play and winning games,just winning awards.
Maybe the Pirates were smart enough to know that these two were not team players.
MLB is all about “protecting the brand”.
It’s OK to cheat until it publicly becomes an issue. Steroids were the same way.
This time the attention is on the pitchers. It’s only a matter of time before another steroid scandal is under covered.
Out of the steroid scandal came team beat writers – which gives teams total media control over their clubhouse. Ultimate protect your brand move !
I’d like to preface this by saying it sucks Glasnow is hurt and I’m not trying to take away from the fact that he’s facing a potentially career-altering injury.
That said, I’m not sure how valid Glasnow’s comments are. From my understanding (I’m not a medical professional) TJS is brought on by strain on the elbow. This is something basically all pitchers do because the motion of pitching is stressful on the elbow, but certain pitching mechanics can make you even more prone to suffering a UCL tear. I’ve closely followed the story of Jameson Taillon (interesting story even if you’re not a Yankee fan) as he’s talked about how he had to basically reinvent his pitching mechanics to put less stress on his arm and elbow following 2 TJS procedures.
I suppose the argument could be that the sunscreen helped Glasnow’s mechanics so he wasn’t gripping the ball so hard, but even as I type that out it seems like a weak sauce argument. Glasnow has had a history of issues with his pitching mechanics as well as arm-related injuries. So instead of believing he partially tore his UCL due to the natural wear and tear he’s put on his arm through his natural delivery, I am asked to believe it was because MLB banned him from using sunscreen? I don’t really buy that.
All I know is it’s gonna be a LONG winter come time for that CBA. They hate Manfred, and I can’t say I blame them. The Clueless Commish.
So what Glasnow is saying is he built his entire mechanical repertoire around Cheating. Very curious to see what he looks like when he comes back, and if he pitches closer to his Pirates-version of himself. Same with Cole over the coming months.
“Us cheaters are the REAL victims in all of this!!” *tidal wave of tears, mudslide of undies*
The Pirates were taught by Ray Searage to pitch inside.
That is why they had so many HBP.
gaylord perry didn’t want sticky balls. he wanted those slippery elm doctored balls.
He is right in terms of timing. It should have been handled before the season so pitchers could prep in spring without it. Pitchers and hitters are going to get physically hurt from this.
Also, MLB is so confused with its rule changes. They are constantly trying to speed up the game yet the want more offense. Cant have it both ways. Manfred. SMH
this wasn’t a rule change, it’s enforcement
Once again, Robb Manfred is ruining the game. He needs to go and bring in someone who cares about the game and it’s traditions.
If there is a 60 MPH speed limit sign, you never saw a trooper there before today, and everyone else was always 90 MPH going too, it’s still speeding to go 90 MPH there.
I get it, the league has turned a blind eye to this for a while now… but this has been a rule essentially forever. Should they have always enforced it, sure. Should they have especially enforced it when it started really taking off hard, sure. Should everybody in the league have just decided maybe they shouldn’t cheat, sure. Does that mean individual pitchers are absolved of responsibility, no!
I guess it was also not his fault that he sucked when he pitched for the Pirates. He would dominate at AAA but could not get people out in the majors. A real head case.
I’m starting to wonder if this is related to why Bieber got hurt all of a sudden.
Global warming is caused by all the mouth-breathers on this thread. Thanks!!
It’s American Culture to hate on others. Especially when someone writes an article w a comment section
I wouldn’t limit that to just Americans. Id say it’s human nature…
Kudos to Glasnow for saying what every other injured pitcher is thinking.
I think Glasnow is making this statement to posture a legal case. MLB turned a blind eye and allowed the product on the field to change Bc it went with their interest of quicker games. But now it’s so obvious and so main stream – they decide to change the rules they choose to enforce mid season and they could be held liable for that.
And Glasgow is close to getting free agency. This injury could cost him 10s of millions or more. Hope he sues MLB and wins !
You can’t be serious! The guy made millions off of cheating and you think he has a case to sue MLB? Haha. If anything Tampa Bay should sue him for cheating them out of money because they thought they were getting a good pitcher, to only find out he’s below average unless he’s cheating.
It’s ALWAYS been a rule. And like speeding they can choose when and where to enforce it. The players have absolutely no leg to stand on legally. None.
I mean hes not wrong about MLB being dumb, but that’s not how injuries work. His UCL wasn’t just fine a week ago and then he pitched and destroyed it. Tears are almost always gradual (notwithstanding car accidents and the like), and I doubt anything that happened in the past 15 days had anything to do with his injury.
anyone else rather see Glasnow locate at 101 than feel morally righteous about the perceived sanctity of the game?
I’m not sure what the 101 means, but I think it is kind of crazy for Glasnow to complain about not being allowed to cheat. The rest of the world is denying everything, while their ERA doubles.
Glasnow complains about not being allowed to cheat. I guess that the upside is that Cole is no longer the poster child for cheating.
so count you among the air of moral righteousness and fake perceptions of honesty in the game crowd then? Oh and 101 refers to the amount of miles in a single hour that a ball may travel between the time the ball leaves Glasnow’s hand (the bony thing full of digits at the end of your arm) and the time it crosses home plate (the white pentagon on the ground that the umpire stands behind)
I wouldn’t count me in with that group.
Part of what I do is to think separately about the morality of a person’s actions, and the logic. For example, I disapprove of organized crime, while at the same time wondering why these people don’t have a $1M in a bag hidden away, along with a new identity, passport, etc.
And so it is with the cheaters. While I think players should not be allowed to cheat. it is a completely separate discussion from the question of why someone would openly admit to cheating, when they didn’t have to do so.
And the five minutes you spent trying to insult was a complete waste of time on your part. It was lame, and I couldn’t care less if someone on the internet tries to insult me.
no insults, just making sure you understood what “hands” and “home plate” are, since “101” in the context of a baseball pitcher made it over your head. All love here, just a little snark too 🙂
I can see it clearly in retrospect. When you said ‘locate at 101’, I thought it was some young kid slang like ‘what’s the 411?’.
And nothing wrong with a little handful of snark.
I’m wondering how many of those who have commented bothered to read the statements issued by MLB. If they did they would realize that the pitchers who “upped the ante” by using Spider tack etc. caused this to happen. Consider this portion of the statement and “read between the lines……… “I understand there’s a history of foreign substances being used on the ball, but what we are seeing today is objectively far different, with much tackier substances being used more frequently than ever before. It has become clear that the use of foreign substance has generally morphed from trying to get a better grip on the ball into something else — an unfair competitive advantage that is creating a lack of action and an uneven playing field.”
It’s not hard to understand what Manfred means. If pitchers had stuck to dabs of rosin/sunscreen or even tactfully applied pine tar this would not have happened. Instead they had to go to the extreme and all but wave it in everyone’s face. Consider this quote from the SI article….”One ball made its way into an NL dugout last week, where players took turns touching a palm to the sticky material coating it and lifting the baseball, adhered to their hand, into the air. Another one, corralled in a different NL dugout, had clear-enough fingerprints indented in the goo that opponents could mimic the pitcher’s grip. A third one, also in the NL, was so sticky that when an opponent tried to pull the glue off, three inches of seams came off with it.”
They pushed and pushed the envelope until MLB had no choice but to step in and enforce the rule. If they hadn’t been greedy, looking for that extra illegal edge things would have been fine. As was stated in the release …….. “After an extensive process of repeated warnings without effect, gathering information from current and former players and others across the sport, two months of comprehensive data collection”…..etc. They were warned and snubbed their noses. Now they (and too many posters on here) are whining. Sorry, but it’s time to pay the piper.
Nice essay
In an interview yesterday that apparently hardly anybody saw and has received zero media coverage, Bauer demonstrated a ball stuck to his palm using nothing but talc and sweat. So it seems to me a bit simplistic to blame pitchers for becoming “greedy” when, first of all, every player is looking for an edge, and second, it doesn’t take special substances to get it. The way to address this should have been to create a list of substances pitchers are allowed to use, and do it in consultation with the players, and preferably during the offseason. They had four months of unplanned downtime last year, a perfect opportunity to address baseball issues when not much else was happening in the sport. Instead MLB ignored the issue for years, then panicked in midseason, making an arbitrary change by fiat, and created a BFM. I say you can’t reasonably blame any of this on the players. Ultimately it’s all on MLB.
If talc and sweat was enough then why resort to things strong enough to rip seams off the baseball. Sorry, I usually agree with your posts but IMHO it’s greed that caused this….greed by the pitchers to gain more spin, velo (possibly) and better contracts. They were given ample warning to tone it down and refused. All you have to do is read between the lines of Manfred’s statement.
The point of the demonstration wasn’t to show that sweat and talc was enough but that special or synthetic materials aren’t needed to create a sticky substance. From what we’ve been hearing the vast majority of pitchers have been using some sort of grip enhancer and they’ve been doing it for many years. All of this argues for MLB developing a list of allowed and prohibited materials in consultation with the players, and doing this before it becomes a crisis. What the argument against that is, I really don’t understand. In the final analysis you can’t expect human nature to change but you can create reasonable rules and then enforce them equitably. That’s how you deal with human nature. MLB did it bass-akwards, as usual.
Thank you Cat.Well written and thoughtful.
While I do agree that the baseball needs to standardized with sufficient seam height to control the ball,I am heartened by the preponderance of posters here just calling out what this has become- blatant cheating.
I find it ironic that many of those who have blatantly disregarded this basic fact may very well fit the same category through their daily life.
Get a grip.These pitchers are using these substances to increase spin rates so that they can get more movement on their pitches.It is the cheap way to receive more awards as Glasnow seemingly pines for.Sooner or later they have to pay the piper.
Instead, when he heals, Glasnow will have to go back and pitch the way he did when he was with the Pirates and will not garner many awards if any at all.
And those that said that this trade was the worst in ML history may now hopefully have second thoughts.
It was bad,but maybe not that bad.
Sounds like bitching to me
Just because your spouse didn’t catch you cheating doesn’t mean they won’t. Can you blame them for your broken leg as you run from someone else’s bed?
Glasnow can suck it
Whah whah whah
“Cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater” is what my 8 year old said.
“some sort of control or some sort of grip on the ball”
THEY ARE CALLED FINGERS!
What a cry baby.
funny how we base success in our society on greed, opportunism, and oneupsmanship, but immediately wax indignant when someone applies these things in areas of life we somehow believed were outside of greed and opportunism. It’s a version of Neal Brennen’s Football/Violence joke: you teach a guy to do greed and opportunism in all aspects of life to get ahead and be successful, but then they do it in baseball and it’s like “oops i did life when i shouldve done baseball”
Also funny – this is BASEBALL, a GAME, played since its professional origins with EVERYBODY looking for an edge, which is, actually, a goodly part of THE GAME.
whereas, the other thing is your personal life. It is best lived as uprightly as possible, because it is NOT a game; oh, and you don’t get bonus points for virtue signals, or for waxing indignant at the failings of others.
The new concept of “virtue signaling” is certain interesting. I suppose it is made possible by the popularity of the current trend for signaling a lack of virtue.
actually, the concept is not new at all, but very ancient, and has been around longer than pitchers have sought to baffle hitters, legally or otherwise : “They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.”
That concept is covered more than adequately by hypocrisy. The term “virtue signaling” is not used to accuse others claiming virtues they don’t have, but to accuse them of having actual virtues. Many people today are comfortable laughing at others who at least make an effort to display virtuous qualities. And that concept is covered more than adequately by another ancient concept, cynicism.
“Virtue signaling” is an backhanded insult to accuse people of trying to show how virtuous they, by what they say, rather than what they do. Nobody that has virtue, needs to show people how virtuous they are.
well, no, since what they are signalling are not actually virtues, anciently speaking, but the pablum niceties of whatever trendy Imagine lyric is currently most applausable 🙂
A virtuous man does not need to, in your word, display. That is for peacocks.
One thousand amens, brother Joe – I just wrote something similar before I saw this from you
While I don’t agree with it, props for a very cogent and well-written paragraph here
Not really. You are trying to ignore the point on hypocrisy, so you are missing what I am saying by quite a lot. What I find triggers the virtue signaling charge is when someone does something that benefits someone other than themselves then has the temerity to mention it. This is not signaling, it’s actual doing. What raised the hackles more, the saying or the doing? Not sure. Maybe we’ve gotten to the point where many people can’t tell the difference, but saying and doing are different just the same. We know what to call people who don’t do what they say. They are signaling not virtue but hypocrisy.
so just do it, and maybe let somebody else toot the horn about it, or not.
Tooting your own is pretty gross, and not at all virtuous.
Your private life is much like baseball. Everyone should obey the rules, but a substantial number of people are fringy about it. It’s not a big deal, imo. The MLB is starting to enforce the rules on its books.
All we are seeing today, is what we’ve always seen. Some pitchers, not all, have always tried to scuff up the ball, or use foreign substances. Just like stealing signs, or corking the bat. It’s just been taken to a new level, and MLB is pushing back.
I think that skirting the rules is one of those unwritten rules of baseball 🙂
I was listening to the game the night Billy Hatcher’s bat exploded with cork or superballs scattered all over the infield. I just can’t really get exercised about boyish shenanigans, unless doubling over with laughter counts as getting exercised.
So now they are hitching that the enforcing of existing rules should wait until the off season? How about not cheating in the first place? Then he wouldn’t have had to worry about it. What a putz !!!
Pitchers have been using substances for grip for years. Hitters want them using it too. Simmer down.
There’s nothing to see here…. Move along!
img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/private/t_16x9/…
They literally moved an All Star game location based on public perception and you thought this was ‘above them’ to institute?
MLB is a joke and run by a fool.
If I was a hitter in the MLB, I’d want the pitcher to have the best possible grip on the ball if he’s going to be throwing it at me a 100 mph.
Junk pitchers no sticky stuff for you !
Just kidding
Just a piece of advice to ML pitchers who’ve had to use Spider Tack, etc just to get by: you may want to consider the knuckleball. Sure, you’ll be a .500 pitcher going forward, but you won’t need foreign substances, and your arm problems will be few and far between.
What a complete lunatic and liar- just cause your body can’t hold up has nothing to do with cheating! Moron- if that was true then every pitcher across the world would have injuries unless they cheated. What BS- and they have Rosin, it’s better than nothing. Dude is provably a Qanon believer too..what a joke lol
Can he sue MLB if he develops skin cancer from not being able to use sunscreen but required to perform in outdoor conditions where UV Rays are unavoidable?
Show me where in the MLB release/rules it says players can’t use sunscreen.