The Angels announced they’ve signed reliever Aaron Loup to a two-year, $17MM guarantee. (The team announced the contract terms). He’ll receive successive $7.5MM salaries in 2022 and 2023, and the deal also contains a $7.5MM club option for 2024 that comes with a $2MM buyout. Loup is a client of the Beverley Hills Sports Council.
A longtime member of the Blue Jays’ bullpen early in his career, Loup had seemingly settled in as a competent journeyman not too long ago. He split the 2018 season between Toronto and the Phillies, then spent the next three years playing on either minor league or one-year big league deals with different clubs.
After an injury-wrecked 2019 campaign with the Padres, he settled for a minors pact with the Rays in 2020. Loup posted strong results in Tampa Bay but didn’t boast the kind of velocity teams typically covet from back-end arms. His 2020 numbers were enough to land him a guaranteed job with the Mets, albeit on a fairly low $3MM base salary.
Loup’s deal with the Angels shatters his previous three contracts, a testament to how effective he was in Queens. The Louisiana native worked to an incredible 0.95 ERA across 56 2/3 innings, a mark bested only by Seattle’s Casey Sadler among those with 30+ frames. Teams are looking far beyond ERA to evaluate pitchers (particularly relievers), but Loup’s underlying metrics also painted the picture of an elite late-innings arm.
The 33-year-old (34 next month) fanned a solid 26.1% of batters faced, the best full season mark of his career. That’s more good than dominant, but Loup has never been a particularly overpowering hurler. Relying primarily on a 92 MPH sinker and a mid-80s cutter/slider, the southpaw has typically been a ground-ball specialist. Loup routinely induces grounders on half or more of balls in play against him, and he continued to thrive in that regard this year. He also boasts plus control, only walking more batters than average in two of his eight career seasons with at least 20 innings pitched. His 7.3% walk percentage in 2021 was almost three points lower than the 9.8% league mark for bullpen arms.
Loup’s standout skill, however, has been contact suppression. He’s typically one of the league’s harder pitchers to square up, and that was never more true than in 2021. Only six of the 218 hitters who stepped in against him recorded an extra-base hit, and he remarkably allowed just a single home run. The Angels can’t reasonably count on Loup to be that effective moving forward, but the front office is clearly banking on him inducing plenty of grounders and otherwise unthreatening contact.
Adding to Loup’s appeal is that he stymied hitters from both sides of the plate. He’s always been a tough at-bat for left-handed hitters, and he was leveraged situationally quite a bit early in his career. But Loup has proven adept at getting righties out lately as well, holding them to a meager .205/.276/.311 line since the start of 2020. An ability to handle hitters from both sides of the plate has taken on an outsized importance in the three-batter minimum era, and Loup has proven capable of taking on that expanded role.
Loup was perhaps the top option in this offseason’s left-handed relief group. Andrew Chafin, Brooks Raley and former Angel Tony Watson now stand out as the best remaining arms in a fairly thin class. The combination of market scarcity and Loup’s recent dominance leads to a very solid contract that comes in a bit higher than generally expected.
The signing pushes the Angels’ estimated 2022 player commitments a bit north of $157MM, in the estimation of Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. Non-tenders could shave a couple million dollars off that tally, and there’s still some decent leeway before reaching the club’s near-$182MM season-opening 2021 payroll. That could give general manager Perry Minasian and his staff the chance for further upgrades, with the pitching staff and middle infield still standing out as potential target areas.
The Angels have already made one big rotation strike, signing Loup’s 2021 (and now 2022) teammate Noah Syndergaard to a $21MM deal. Even after the Syndergaard pickup, Minasian told reporters the club was hoping to further bolster the rotation (link via Rhett Bollinger of MLB.com). And while Loup should be a notable upgrade in the late innings, the club had a below-average relief corps in 2021 and is facing the potential free agent departure of closer Raisel Iglesias. An effort to retain or replace Iglesias still seems plausible, even with Loup now in the fold.
To create space on the 40-man roster, Los Angeles designated southpaw Hector Yan for assignment. The 22-year-old was highly regarded enough that the club added him to the 40-man last winter to keep him from potential selection in the Rule 5 draft. Yan struggled to a 5.25 ERA with a sky high 15.2% walk rate at High-A Tri-City, though, costing him his roster spot. The Angels will have ten days to trade Yan or place him on waivers.
Image courtesy of USA TODAY Sports.
Good pick up by the Angels. Had fun watching him pitch this year.
Odd that the article does not mention his stellar 2021 with the Mets, one of the few bright spots on the team. Although it does say ‘more to come’.
Heh, first sentence of the 2nd paragraph literally says “brilliant 2021 campaign”
I should have worded that better, because that’s not exactly what I’m talking about. It’s a throwaway line. He was amazing in 2021, but I’m talking about a more in-depth breakdown of it in order to judge this deal. Doesn’t even mention who he played for.
As a Mets fan, fans AND players would prefer not to mention 2021.
Loup was the best lefty out of the pen in the game– his numbers were ridiculous. Nice contract for Angels with only a two year deal and their option for a third. These are the signings and deals that have been lacking for so long. Syndergaard, Loup, Wade– nice start to the off season. I expect a deal with Iglesias and another front line starter very soon.
Will be interesting. Of the $50 mil open from last year’s payroll – assuming it doesn’t go higher – they’re now down to $21.5 mil. And they need a SP, SS and CL.
As a jays fan I like that people think he was that good but have a hard time even fathoming that as when he was here 90% of the time he wasn’t good
I agree- I use to cringe every time I saw Loup being called in. Seemed like he’d be really good or give up a 3 run homer to lose it. (W/H/HR )
Every time? .6 HRs per 9 innings lifetime. So about once every 17 appearances he’d allow a HR.
You people are nuts.
@TalkSomeSense You must have been having dreams about Loup then. He was 6-0 and gave up 1 HR is 56.2 innings last year. Your fantasies about Loup need to stop.
His 2020 numbers were enough to land him a guaranteed job with the Mets
The Louisiana native worked to an incredible 0.95 ERA across 56 2/3 innings,
The 33-year-old (34 next month) fanned a solid 26.1% of batters faced, the best full season mark of his career.
Angels are not wasting no time I like what Perry’s doing he’s filled a few holes one in the rotation and another in the bullpen a utility man I think Perry has a couple more tricks left up his sleeve Angels fans
PERRY “ DONT STOP BELIEVING “ JOURNEY
I tried to tell Angel’s fans that they would come to love Perry…
The man is a great baseball mind, and a great evaluator of talent..He will eventually get this team to the playoffs in a season or two…Book it!!
Definitely looks like the Mets were thrown in for a loup.
Regression time
At his age, it very well could be. Hard to tell with relievers but it’s never good to waste all assets on them because many change day to day
Players don’t regress when they leave the Mets– they go on to be better, or haven’t you been watching?
Interesting baseball paradox at play here with both Loup and Thor.
On the one hand, signing with the Angels means immediately sucking.
On the other hand, leaving the Mets means immediately improving.
What is going to give?
Agreed. Definitely hard to repeat a sub 1.00 ERA. I’d look at his career numbers and assume somewhere in there is probably what they should get.
Angels signed a decent pitcher, that throws me for a Loup.
Ha!
They’ve actually signed TWO, which should really catch you off-Gaard.
I like your pun, but I do not expect a Synder-Ella story from the Noah signing.
Nice
Don’t you people have jobs? Oh yeah, thanks Biden.
The jobs were lost under Trump, the jobs have been returning under Biden
LOL. Are you saying the economy is better under Biden? That’s ignorantly laughable.
So is MetsFan22 going to come on this article and talk about how brilliant the Mets are for NOT resigning Loup?
Obsessed much?
Have you ever even read a single post from me to say that? Because I cant remember you at all. I mean if you HAVE read many posts from me and you’ve just been WAITING to post that than I think I need a restraining order against you.
Stocker much? =)
He said it because every single post that is even tangentially related to the Mets has like 50 posters thinking they’re the funniest person around by ripping MetsFan22, even though he’s a troll that literally only posts for attention. He’s playing all of you and you all fall into the trap every time.
I’d think Kevin Stocker has better things to do than post on here….
Im friends with Kevin and his family. And yes, he has much better things to do than post here.
Merchandise Stocker or did you mean stalker?
This is all a part of the plan by CA&E – Cohen, Alderson & Eppler.
Sort of like trying to tire the other boxer out by letting him hit you in the face a lot.
Billy Eppler doesnt believe in signing MLB free agent pitchers
Very nice. Loup throws consistent, quality innings. We need those.
hope we get 1 more. maybe a little inexpensive.
But can he pitch ?
….yes?
Sometimes
He was hot and cold with the Blue Jays
When I watched him pitch
He was the best lefty out of the pen in the entire major leagues last year.
RIP Loup, had a good career!
No, because he went to the Mets and did well, defying all patterns for Mets free agents
Lolmets
I don’t get it
There’s nothing to get, it’s a lazy post. Mets signed him for $3 million last year and he was phenomenal for them. Instead of giving them credit, people need to bash them for not throwing $7.5 million at him for each of the next two years. Given Loup’s age and track record, it’s a medium-risk signing for the Angels and totally understandable for the Mets to not do it.
@ rct;
Really?
I thought Cohen had money to burn. Richest owner in MLB. Going to have a $400m payroll.
You mean the stuff I read here in the comment section isn’t all true?
His age? He’s 33 and a lefty out of the pen– they are productive for a long time. His career ERA is 3.05 playing in the east. And $7.5MM a year on a two year deal isn’t exactly breaking the bank– a very good value. The Angels need a quality pen to attract two more top line starters. No one is coming if they don’t have a pen.
Yes, I’d think there’s quite the chance that none of that is actually true
Loup is effective with left-handed and right handed batters soft contact low batting average against loup Nice pick up nice way to start building a Bullpen
He is nothing special but somehow ends up with decent stats all the time. I remember when he was with tampa he got 2 wins on the same day vs the bluejays
0.95 ERA with 57 strikeouts in 56 2/3 innings. It was the best ERA by any reliever with at least 50 innings in 2021. He also held opposing batters to a .192 average that ranked third among all National League southpaws. Left-handed hitters managed just two extra-base hits against him all season.
If this is nothing special I hope he’s nothing special again this year.
Yeah well look at his other seasons. Underwhelming
You people are nuts. Lifetime ERA 136+. You people are making this stuff up as you go along
I’m happy the Mets didn’t give him 7.5 mil bc we need it for other things but people need to realize he is going to be good next year.
He’s got a career ERA of 3.05. He’s a good lefty out of the pen who can get righties out– they don’t grow on trees. He dropped down and started throwing more sidearm and that’s when he elevated his game. No one claims he’s Cy Young, just another solid piece for the Angels.
Good move for the Halos. Now they’ll finish 4th infront of the Rangers in the division.
Now?
Yes now. The Angels are Terrible.
Did you ride the short bus to this website?
Nope, your mommma dropped me off
Great analysis, Larry. Don’t quit your day job.
You’re right… They’ll probably still finish dead last in the division.
Larry – The Angels have signed Syndergaard, Wade, and Loup, all of whom improve the team. They also have Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Fletcher, Rendon, Walsh, et al in the line up. In your opinion, what should they do for you to believe they are not terrible? Or at least have potential to not be terrible?
Switching to the AL Central
Photos taken before disaster
very glad the Phillies didnt outbid
@DarkSide830 I’m with you. 2021 Loup was unreal, and likely will never be matched again. A solid bullpen piece, but a potential overpay here.
yeah. there will be at least a few (and probably several) guys available now that will do better for less next year.
It’s a good start, now don’t lose your momentum, Perry. Fill all the Angels’ pitching needs before even looking at FA position players.
@solaris ROFL……. If Perry signs any front line arm you know Arte will demand either Correa, Seager, or Story be signed to a ten year deal
Seems a bit high, would’ve thought somewhere around 5 per.
Moreno is the richest man in the state of Arizona at $4B. You think he cares? The question is what are the Mets doing? Cohen is the wealthiest owner in the sport– why would they let him go? Mets are a mess. You saved some money, great, but you have to replace him.
He wasn’t ready for all that greatness coming to the Mets next season and beyond.
It sucks seeing him go. I hope he does well even though regression is most probable due to going to back to AL and being 33. I wouldn’t call this a full lolmets moment because 17 million for a mid thirties lefty, non closing reliever is a lot of money, however, papa Cohen has buku bucks to spend. Good luck in beautiful California
OH MY GOD…..
I’m doing a happy dance. Way to go Perry!!!! This guy has a recent history of success and is likely to be good. As a fan, you can’t ask for anything more and you hope the Angels’ talent evaluators see things that validate his recent success.
Wow, halofan11 is happy, this MUST be a good pickup.
ooool!
Halo11Fan, you just made my week. I’m so happy to see you happy. Cheers.
The Angels have more work to do, but Perry is off to a good start.
I like his start. I understand these moves. Last year was head scratcher after head scratcher.
These moves may not work out but they are good gambles. All a GM can do is put the team in position to win without relying on hope and prayer. So far so good.
I only like this move if the Angels sign a closer. The sticker price on Iglesias is probably too high. Hopefully, they dont plan to convert Loup to the closer role.
No!!! Angels are taking a couple of the best pieces of our pitching staff! I know it may have been an anomaly of a season for Loup and there’s no certainty about Thor, but those losses hurt.
What does regression look like? He’s a career 3.05 ERA. This past year he was 0.95, so fine– he regresses to be a 2.75 ERA lefty who doesn’t give up homeruns and dominates lefties– I’ll take it.
The Angels love ex-Met pitchers. First Harvey then Syndergaard. Now Loup. Next is Stroman. DeGrom to follow.
The irony of Eppler to the Mets, Loup/Syndergaard to the Angels
Thoughts, MetsFan22?
He’ll be good for them. Wouldn’t want my Mets to do that deal tho.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv1kApvEPiY
Will the Halos sign Stroman & Familia next?
I’m praying we sign Stroman. Highly doubt it will happen, but I’d be dancing.
i hope they trade for sean manea.
They are trying– and a good bullpen moves them closer.
Halo11Fan already dancing and HalosHeavenJJ threatening to do so. Its good to be an Angels fan right now.
Loup is a “quality” arm. Throwing 99 doesn’t necessarily make you a quality arm
Welp. Between Syndergaard and Loup being signed, Im assuming the Angels are out on Cobb and Iglesias.
I’m hoping they still get Iglesias back. Cobb will probably come back if they have the money available
While I think his 2021 season was a bit of mirage, the guy is still a solid bullpen addition.
Mirage is an understatement.
Lifetime 3.31 FIP. Lifetime .7 HRs per nine innings. No one is expecting 2021. What we are expecting is to pitch effectively, which he has done for most of his career.
The is looks like Anthony swarczak all over. I bet that’s why the mets didn’t resign him.
He doesn’t look anything like Swarzak. Are you people making this stuff up as you go along.
So is they the Angels new closer? Not very Angel-like to pay that much for a setup/mid relief guy.
Get this plus Iglesias signed and I’m happy with the bullpen moves.
They used to sign mid-relievers to decent contracts like Justin Speier, Joe Smith, Darren Oliver, et al.
not sure iglesias can repeat for 3 years. i think minasian did well not to retain him.
They offered a QO, which Iglesias declined. Not exactly Minasian “not retaining him”, the door is still open for an extension…until it isn’t. Loup isn’t necessarily a Iglesias replacement either.
Iglesias has improved the last few years, as has Loup. No reason to think they can’t continue on that trend.
If they don’t keep Iglesias they’ll need a closer… maybe Graveman, Melancon, or trade for Kimbrel.
I can’t understand why the Mets didn’t pay him? He was good, really good! Yeah, I don’t expect another season like he just had, but he’s proven enough to warrant the Mets bringing him back, he was one of the few reliable relievers they had all year.
@Steven It’s not like the Mets didn’t want him back. He just took the Angels offer. The Mets may not have even had a chance to match. We don’t now the details yet.
I highly doubt the Mets weren’t given the chance to top the deal, agents should go back to the other team to get more money/years/options. If the Mets didn’t wanna top the deal, that is silly. When keeping a reliever only costs money, you do it, especially when Loup brought stability to the pen. Once again, I don’t believe he is a middle/late-inning relief ace, but he’s good and the Mets need these dudes.
@Steven The Mets just got a GM. They’re a little behind. It’s very possible they weren’t given a chance to match. Thor didn’t give them that chance.
@ VonPurpleHayes;
You may well be correct that the players aren’t giving the Mets a chance to match an outside offer.
Then we have Cohen and Alderson saying the plan is to get draft choices from the players leaving.
A strong possibility is that the players want out. Period. The FO is spinning it to say that’s their plan. The possibility is strong because so many of the invitations they extended to FO people to interview for the POBO position refused to even interview. And we don’t know if anyone other than Eppler did for the GM position.
The truth will come out in time. Generations of Mets fans that started after the unexpected 1969 championship, take the team too seriously. They so badly want to be better than the Yankees. That’s fine. But their parents and grandparents would have laughed at the bungling of this FO as they did in the 60’s. At that time there was no disrespect towards Joan Whitney Payson – a wonderful owner and a great baseball fan.
I don’t think players want out. Nothing unusual here. Free agents sign with new teams all the time.
@ Cosmo2;
Yes, FA’s sign with other teams all the time.
But usually they give their team a chance to match or better the deal. Especially on November 11. Couple that with as of today the Mets have not resigned one FA, and many seemed pretty upset that their owner was calling them and their manager out on Twitter and in the media.
It’s a non story. If only fans could put the energy they use for making up absurd LOL Mets narratives into supporting their own team…
MLB dot com’s people were saying,
1) The Mets didn’t seem aware that Loup was seriously fielding other offers, and
2) Didn’t value him nearly as highly as 2/17m.
—The latter is strange particularly because they gave May a very similar contract last offseason, and May has never been as good as Loup’s 2020-2021.
What are they doing over there in Queens?
*know
Good? He was the best lefty out of the pen in the majors. So he regresses– fine, he’ll still be good as he has been his whole career.
Jays fans are laughing, this past season really has the angels fooled.
I definitely expect regression, but even a normal year from Loup would be lights out compared to some of the guys we’ve had lately: Claudio, Guerra, Slegers and the deceiving stat line of Cishek, the inherited runners king.
Please never mention those names ever again.
Smart by the Mets not to outbid this.
Huh?
LOL
I thought Cohen has money he hasn’t even counted yet.
The Exodus continues…..
What?? You’re the same person who would be calling the Mets dumb for making this deal.
LOL
Oh boy, yet another mind reader.
Let’s talk about that Lindor deal, Lucky.
Really? Who replaces him? In EPPLER you trust? Good luck with that.
Yep, Good thing the Mets saved money here to they can pay a .230 AVG, 20 HRs, 101 OPS+ shortstop 341 million
You do realize that this just adds another need for the Mets to fulfill.
It’s a decent start to rebuilding the pen.
Must remember to teach my 5 year old grandson how to pitch left- handed…..
I like Loup, I just don’t like him 17M worth. But the Halos have a lot of money.
Definitely an overpay. And that second year may be regrettable. But if you’re an Angels fan, I think you’re gonna enjoy watching him pitch this season
So do the Mets. Cohen is the wealthiest owner in the sport. The cost is relative to what the players are getting. Bauer got $40MM. Verlander $25MM and Syndergaard $21MM after TJ surgeries. $7.5MM seems commensurate with the market and what he did last year and over his career.
So was the $3m in 2021 below market?? $8.5m Aav seems like a slight overpay, $5-6m seems like a fair AAV number.
FWIW I like the signing *IF* it doesn’t prohibit them from resigning Iglesias…OR two additional RP, one being a closer.
Loup (First Indian On The Moon), though I suppose now we have to call him First Guardian On The Moon.
After all these years of reading MLB Trade Rumors, this is the post that finally convinced me to create an account. How could I resist responding to a post that references Red Rose Speedway? Kudos to the Angels for signing Loup and strengthening their ‘pen; kudos to you for bringing Wings into the mix.
Relievers are up and down. Throw a bunch of them against the wall and see who sticks.
That strategy doesn’t work. The Angels have tried that for the last ten years. A team needs three or four who are likely to be good. After that you can take chances.
Exactly. Give me a little stability, particularly in the higher leverage spots, then let me throw 8 guys at the final three openings and play the hot hand.
That’s not really what I said. The Angels need three or four guys who are likely to be good. If you include Loup, they now have one.
Huge overpay by a pitching-desperate team.
‘She knows too much to argue or to judge”.
Thats right
“Repeat quotations/Drawn on the wall”
So do we all.
Cheers
Angel OWNER HATES COHEN …LOL
He’ll HATE HIM MORE WHEN OTANI IS IN A METS UNI IN A FEW YEARS …..
Yes, that must be it.
Why are NYC sports fans and their media so classy?
No wonder the players want out.
lol!
Samuel, you’re just taking the bait laid out by trolls. Not all NY fans are like that. 3/4 of them maybe are, but not all.
Spoiler: All fanbases are the same. Larger markets just have more fans so you’re more likely to hear some crazy stuff just based on the odds.
@ VonPurpleHayes;
Those in the NE corridor other than Nationals fans are far, far more intense.
I think there are cultural differences on the coasts. East Coast fans tend to think it is their sacred duty to be loud and obnoxious. Midwest and West Coast fans tend to be more chill, other than the LA Dodger/Raider crossover demographic.
I dread the yearly visit from Boston. Can have fun with the Yanks. Dodgers fans are hit and miss.
No experience with Philly, which seems like a good thing.
Why would Ohtani go to the east coast? Have you not read his history? He’s been wanting to go to the “Angels” since he was a kid. Or rather, a fictitious anaheim team from a comic book series he was a fan of as a kid. Totally emulating the two-way player in that comic..
As a Mets fan, Ouch..
Who cares about signing the top quality free agents, I want to spend the next three weeks welcoming the new Mets GM and an article or two about him giving away Thanksgiving turkeys in the neighborhood, because they haven’t wasted enough f*****g time!
And what the hell has Alderson’s kid been doing? Playing video games at his desk this past month??
Surely Mets fans know boy Bryn, who has never worked for anyone other than daddy or daddy’s friends, is now assistant GM being groomed for the GM slot?
So is it safe to say Conforto is next?
Lol Moreno is embarrassing Eppler and the Mets. This is what the Mets are the laughing stock of the league. Pillaged by the Angels.
Hey, Cohen & Sandy, keep waiting to sign players we’ll lose all of them, and Syndergaard and Loup were 2 of our top 4 to resign, Thanks for nothing.
Watch him pitch for so many years with Jays and i was really hoping for a reunion this off season.
Angels ‘pen just got better!
The Angels pen could have signed you to a contract and gotten better.
He’s been a solid reliever and I hope he continues to be solid.
Lol
Glad he is out the NL East.
Well this sucks. What’s the excuse this time? He said he wanted to stay, received a fair deal and didn’t hold out for a 3rd year. Another hole to fill for Billy.
Nothing to worry about., Eppler can easily replace Syndergaard with likes of Trevor Cahill, Dylan Bundy, or Matt Harvey. Loup can be easily be replaced by the likes of Cody Allen If something happens to Lindor, Eppler knows where Zack Cozart lives. These are just a few of the perks of having Eppler as your GM. Just sit back and reep the benefits.
He is not as bad as Dipoto but he is not far behind.
This signing makes no sense. That’s too much money for a pitcher old as dirt and one flashy season while the rest were middling to good. Angels being Angels.
You’ll be glad to have Loup, if you weren’t watching him last year.
He’s a pro jock. Louper.
Sensational, professional write-up by Anthony Franco.
Thanks.
Loup was excellent for the Mets but 2/17 feels a lot like you’re over-paying a bit based on last year’s numbers. Not saying this guy is going to completely regress or anything, but I’m not heartbroken over not being able to have another $7.5M setup guy, either.
Of course you overpay, but would you 5 million on Guerra and Claudio.
The Angels have been underpaying for years and it shows.
Incredible that the Mets still went with Diaz to “close” when they were in it and while Loup’s ERA was under 1.00.
No other team in baseball would do this. Thanks so much Sandy.
I find it hard to believe no one wants to come pitch in California for the Angels. This team is throwing money at them and we still can’t land a legit name. Unless Bundy has lost his velo, he and Syndergaard will have the same stats at seasons end. If you look at both pitchers games logs not much difference. As for Loup, one good season turns you from being a minor league contract dime a dozen old lefty to eating up enough money for two relievers. The other guy they mentioned in the article, Casey Sadler, has been a journeyman since 2014, finally pitched a full season, and was a waiver claim just the season before. So make better choices I would say. Better than none I suppose
The off season has just begun and the Angels landed the best left hand reliever on the market and Sydergaard.
And Loup has far more than one good season.
So sign a superstar, but also sign nameless people that end up being elite? My boy, you should sit this one out.
My boy you have anything intelligent to add to my comment? You calling Noah a superstar? He hasn’t pitched in 3 years and his ERA was 4.5 the last year he pitched. Loup and and Sadler were both nameless relievers at one point. Your Mom’s calling. Dinner is ready. I gotta go eat
In other news, Mets continue to diddle themselves while pitching flies off the board early.
How much will they miss by, on Matz?
Once again Angels overpay for a short period of success.
Short period? Do you guys understand hopes to look at data? I guess not.
136 lifetime ERA+.
4.27 ERA, 101 ERA+, 3.73 FIP from 2015-2018
Didn’t pitch in 19
Had a good ERA (2.52) in short season 2020, but the 3.83 FIP shows that was a mirage and he was still the 4.0 ERA guy he was with the Blue Jays over the prior 5 seasons
It’s 1 truly good season over the last 7 years
And before that he’s was very good.
His worst ERA plus when he has pitched 50 innings or more is 120.
The worst ERA+ he’s had with any team is 120+.
And he certainly was good in limited work in 2020. Only playing 60 games will affect your innings.
Did you like Claudio? Let me pull up that thread to see if you have any credibility.
I don’t see you there. Which means you are new or changed your screen name.
A pitcher who throws strikes, keeps the ball in the park, misses bags, and doesn’t have severer splits is a good gamble.
“And before that he’s was very good”
So way back in 2012-2014, when he was 24-26 years old, he was good?
Great
He’s now turning 34 within the next 30 days
From 2015-2020 he had a 3.95 ERA, 3.71 FIP
(Even had a 3.83 FIP in 2014)
Over those 7 seasons from 2014-2020, he did not have a single year with an FIP under 3.61
He is just consistently a 4.0 range RP for what I now realize is 7 of the last 8 campaigns
Try to talk yourself into believing whatever you need to, but it’s literally 1 good year out of the last 8 seasons
And that doesn’t even mean he is going to be horrible. I’m just pointing out the fact that he consistently produces 4.0 range FIPs outside of last year
Is interesting you brought up Claudio though, I will say that
2014-2020
3.70 FIP, 3.44 ERA, 135 ERA+
3.74 FIP, 3.73 ERA, 112 ERA+
Do you know which one is Loup and which is Claudio?
(Hint: the answer will not make you happy)
So did you change your screen name? I like to know whom I’m talking to. And recent success is a big deal.
It’s a far cry from good, got hurt, good again vs hasnt been good in five years.
I’ve never changed a screen name
And you’re just lying to yourself to make yourself feel good
Again, in his last 8 seasons, Loup has had 1 with an FIP under 3.61
2014 – 3.83
2015 – 3.72
2016 – 4.33
2017 – 3.66
2018 – 3.61
2019 – hurt
2020 – 3.83
2021 – 2.45
Do you know how FIP works? And if you do, what does that say about his chances in 2022 if 2021 was just a fluke?
That’s to say, based off his 2014-2020, what would you estimate his likely FIP to be in 2022?
If you come up with a number other than 3.75-3.85, you’re just lying to yourself
I’m lying to myself? Ok, so you never commented on Claudio?
I did, and got it 100 percent right. So you have no track record.
A loogy who hasn’t been good in years. Who couldn’t get RH out even when good. Compared to a guy that has been good every year he’s been healthy and coming off two great seasons.
No wonder you have no track record. Your evaluation skills stink.
Unlike Claudio, this a good bet. I wonder if you had comment on Guerra, I’ll check out if you have a track record there.
Nope, no comments there, if you are comparing Claudio to Loup. Your track record must suck. I’d hide it as well.
You keep *saying* he has been so good for so many years
Meanwhile, I keep *showing* you he’s been the exact same guy every year for the 7 seasons prior to 2021
2014 – 3.83
2015 – 3.72
2016 – 4.33
2017 – 3.66
2018 – 3.61
2019 – hurt
2020 – 3.83
I didn’t make that up. That is what is called pure undeniable fact
So because the facts are not on your side, you’re trying to use ERA/ERA+ on a short reliever to make yourself feel better. That despite everyone knowing ERA in short relievers is subject to sometimes extreme fluctuation because of the short sample sizes. FIP shows ability
Look, take a peak at a side by side with Diekman
2015-19, 28-32 years old, 3.67 FIP
2016-20, 28-32 years old, 3.71 FIP
2020 – 0.42 ERA, 2.72 FIP as 33 year old
2021 – 0.95 ERA, 2.92 FIP as 33 year old
2021 – 3.86 ERA, 4.46 FIP as 34 year old for Diekman
2022 – ??? for Loup
Would you have signed Diekman to a 2/17 deal prior to 2021 if you could have? Would you have expected anything other than the 2021 he produced?
The answer to both of those is no, I’m sure.
And why would you have guessed that of his 2021?
That’s easy – a consistent 3.75 range FIP pitcher rarely devulges from that, and its more likel he sees regression after a big swing season than stay at the extreme low he produced once.
Then we get to Loup, who is an unbelievably consistent 3.75-3.85 FIP pitcher. 7 years straight, in fact. Yet in his case, you claim he isn’t that and shouldn’t be expected to pitch like he is; apparently you say these things solely because he’s now an Angel
ERA+ is quick.. So you are not comparing him to Claudio? Good. It’s a stupid comparison.
You’re looking at FIP for a ground ball pitcher? priceless. What’s next, XFIP?
And you think ERA+ is bad.
Loups lifetime ERA is a third of a run lower than his FIP,
But keep trying to find data to support your position instead of looking at data to formulate an opinion.
He misses bats, induces soft contact, keeps the ball in the park, doesn’t walk people, has been good when healthy, he’s coming off two good years, gets both RH and LH out, and it’s a two year contract.
It’s a good bet. It’s absurd to compare him to Claudio. It’s absurd to use FIP in support of a negative assessment.
“You’re looking at FIP for a ground ball pitcher? priceless”
So you’re now claiming his ERA will be lower than his FIP?
Then how do we have this?
3.74 ERA, 3.73 FIP – 2014-2020
3.95 ERA, 3.71 FIP – 2015-2020
3.79 ERA, 3.71 FIP – 2016-2020
3.65 ERA, 3.64 FIP – 2017-2020
3.57 ERA, 3.62 FIP – 2018-2020
…and all that is counting him finally dramatically outperforming FIP in 2020 (2.52 ERA, 3.83 FIP)
So yeah, sure, he should totally be expected to produce an ERA lower than FIP considering he’s done it all of 2 times in the last 7 years
“And you think ERA+ is bad.”
ERA/ERA+ for a guy who averages 40 innings a year is almost completely meaningless, and it tells you nothing about how he will pitch moving forward especially
“He misses bats, induces soft contact, keeps the ball in the park, doesn’t walk people”
– he *does not* miss bats. His career 9.5 SwStr% and 8.59 K/9 are both below average for a RP
His 9.05 K/9 in 2021 ranked him 83rd of the 138 RP with 50 IP
His 11.4 SwStr% in 2021 ranked him 90th of the 138
So he’s bottom 40% as far as missing bats
He does not induce soft contact. His 2021 17% matches perfectly the MLB average for RP (also 17.0)
He *occasionally* keeps the ball in the park, but sees the same fluctuation most short relievers do.
In the last 7 years he’s had a HR/9 between 0.91-1.28 4 times, and 0.62 or under 2 times
No, he doesn’t walk that many, correct – yay you, you finally got something right!
As I said, youre just trying to find things to make yourself feel good, and you don’t care what you make up or illogically twist to do it
He’s an unbelievably consistent near 4.0 FIP guy who has produced a near 4.0 ERA for the 7 years prior to 2021; all the kool-aid in the world won’t change that
And no, you brought up Claudio. I just thought it was hysterical you did because of the actual stats
Claudio,
3.44 ERA, 3.70 FIP – 7 years prior to 2021
3.49 ERA, 3.65 FIP – 5 years prior to 2021
Loup,
3.73 ERA, 3.74 FIP – 7 years prior to 2021
3.79 ERA, 3.71 FIP – 5 years prior to 2021
If you want to make a case for how great you think Loup has been over his career, bringing up the name Claudio is not the way to do it
How did I bring up Claudio? You think there is a comparison? Diekman doesn’t check off the boxes Loup doesn’t either.
I told you why I like him. You don’t have to agree with that. Why you are comparing him to pitchers that don’t check those boxes is beyond me.
I would like to look at your track record to understand if you should be taken seriously, but I can’t locate any past posts on the subject. That’s why I brought Claudio. I wanted to know what you had to say about the signing. Nothing. So you are either new, trolling Angel threads, or have changed your screen name.
As it stands now, I don’t think I can take you seriously.
You brought up the name Claudio …so is it just that you don’t even remember what you say when you’re making things up to try and create an argument? It was in the same post where you bragged about how Loup pitched as a 24 year old, as if that would have any bearing on how he pitches at 34
3.73 ERA, 3.74 FIP – 7 years prior to 2021
3.79 ERA, 3.71 FIP – 5 years prior to 2021
3.76 ERA, 4.00 FIP – Steamer 2022 projections
Yes, we know. You “like” him. That’s because you feel things like he is
– a sub roughly 3.80 FIP guy, despite being that 1 time in last 7 years
– a sub roughly 3.80 ERA guy, despite him doing that really only 2 times in 7 years (once with Lindor at SS, once in Tampa Bay’s notorious hands)
– a guy who misses bats, despite him being a bottom 40% guy in that regards
– a guy who keeps the ball in the park, despite him really doing that only 2 times in 7 years
– a guy who induces weak contact, despite him being perfectly average in that regard
You dont know who Loup is. I get it, and thats fine. The problem is only that you’ve been making things up to support what you wish was the case, and ignoring everything thats actually factual. You’ve also been arguing against actual undeniable facts to support your wishes, another problem
Because you don’t have any facts on your side, predictably you rant about who I am and want to see my previous posts. The stats speak for themselves, but they don’t leave you feeling good so you try to attack me. Truth is boring; I’m just a guy who doesn’t comment much as commenting on this board is mostly useless since all doing so means is ending up trying to give facts to homer fans that only want to believe what they wish was the case instead (see this conversation)
Loup is a 3.75-3.85 FIP guy consistently
Loup is also a 3.75+ ERA guy consistently
Loup is projected by Steamer to have a 4.0 FIP and 3.76 ERA
You wish Loup wouldn’t pitch like that, but have nothing to point to other than you like him and what he did at 24 years old to support your case. The fact he’s now an Angels is the only real driving force however
That’s all, thats really everything summed up nicely. In the face of facts, you have nothing but your personal hopes and a desire to dismiss me because I’m the boogie man throwing facts into your fantasy
Now I’ll end by repeating what I said in my first reply; it was factual then so it still holds factual now
“And that doesn’t even mean he is going to be horrible. I’m just pointing out the fact that he consistently produces 4.0 range FIPs outside of last year”
Again, I brought the name Claudio to check the thread about him in order to get an understanding of your thoughts and to see if you were a serious poster. You didn’t even post.
So you are new, a troll, or you changed your screen name.
Here are the facts. I listed why I like Loup. He checks all the boxes. Diekman checks a few. Claudio doesn’t check any.
Those are facts. If you have different boxes, fine. Then try getting that guy on a two year contract.
So far, I don’t think you are a serious poster. Prove me wrong.
You are my new favorite commentor. I been repeating myself on the exact same thing.
Out of Chafin or Loup I’d take Chafin. Let’s see if Joe leaves Loup in for multiple innings. He threw 56 innings in 162 games last season. I wouldn’t bet on him going injury free in 2022
Believe Chafin is more durable and has great stuff. Also a little more velocity. Interesting to see what Chafin gets.
Chafin could be on Minasian’s radar too.
Disappointed my Mets didn’t ante up with Loup. He was arguably our best pitcher (with Stroman) last year. That’s another big hole we need to fill.
I think the Mets dodged a Brett Cecil bullet here, honestly.
About time the Angels place some small value on pitching. If only they’d get a couple good starters, they might actually contend for a playoff spot.
Angela are getting a pitcher who figured it out last year. Good luck to them and to Aaron.
Or they are paying for a reliever coming off a career year which he’ll never duplicate. Relievers are fickle, small sample size and all….
Angels overpay I would never have paid what they did.He is a good arm but not 8mil for the little he pitches.
The Mets are so screwed it’s actually losing some of the humor. This guy won’t replicate what he did this year again, but he’s still a very good arm to have. Huge blow for the Mets, and I get the feeling the hits are gonna keep on coming. Kinda sad that with their type of overspending players still don’t wanna go there. Meanwhile the Braves are paying superstars pennies on the dollar. Says a lot.
So what will everyone be saying when loup has his 2018 season.. 50Gs 40Ing 4.54 ERA? Worth 8 mil?
You have to go back to 2018? Are you going back to 2018 for Syndergaard?
Of course not.
Nothing like a balanced point of view.
Should I use Loups 2019 season when he pitched 3 innings?
Should I use the 2020 covid season when Loup pitched 20 innings?
Loup has been in the league since 2012 and has 1 season of more innings pitch than games. He’s a left specialist just stop. He’s not much better than your ex Claudio you can’t let go.
You do realize I have to go back to 2019 for Syndergaards last full season right?
I just came at you with balanced facts.
I don’t have any issue with people who don’t like Loup. It looks like he was good for years. Got hurt, got healthy and has two excellent seasons.
He checks all the boxes I mentioned and the Angels got him on a two year deal. I love this deal. You can’t get a pitcher who checks all those boxes on a two year deal. I think you are glossing over the good and focusing on the warts. And he pitched 25 innings I. 2021. Since you shorted him 5 innings, it shows that you are looking only looking at the warts.
It’s a good gamble, now the Angels need two more.
I will start looking into his eyes. I just think they overpaid. Ok I will be more glad he’s here, just don’t let it handcuff us bringing in a legit closer. Let’s go Angels!
The Angels have to keep adding. Again, get three guys who check those boxes, and expect two to be solid.
They can’t keep doing what they have done in the past and expect to be successful.
The fact they even paid for a guy who is likely to be good instead of might be good or has a chance to be good, makes me happy.
Angels pen needs to be rebuilt.Loup is an excellent start.I’m so tired of our pen sucking.3 more big arms in the pen and a closer is attainable.
I completely agree. It’s a start and Loup is likely to be good. But it’s only a start.
The Angels need three RPs who are likely to be good. One of those three won’t be. They now have one.
Brew crew is looking for outfield & middle infielders.Halos are minors rich at SS and we have a slew of controllable SP at the big league level.Adel,Marsh,Adams,Ramirez,and Knowles are all good prospects.So what can we give up for Hader?