In 2019, right-hander Joel Kuhnel threw 53 2/3 innings between Double-A and Triple-A with an ERA of 2.18, strikeout rate of 23.3% and walk rate of 7.4%. Just 24 years old at the time, he also made his MLB debut that year, logging 9 2/3 innings out of the Reds’ bullpen. Unfortunately, he hasn’t been able to build off that strong campaign, with injuries hampering him over the subsequent two years. In 2020, a shoulder issue limited him to just three big league innings. Due to the pandemic wiping out the minors, those are the only innings on his ledger that year. He underwent surgery to repair a torn capsule in his right shoulder in October of 2020 and was outrighted off the roster, then was rehabbing for much of 2021, throwing eight minor league innings on the year.
Kuhnel is now getting geared up in spring training for 2022, since he is not on Cincy’s 40-man roster and not affected by the lockout. Mark Sheldon of MLB.com checked in with the 27-year-old as he tries to get back on track. “Everything feels normal,” Kuhnel said. “It feels better than ever, really.” The Reds’ bullpen didn’t do them many favors in 2021, as their 4.99 ERA ranked 27th in baseball, only beating out the non-competitive Diamondbacks, Nationals and Orioles. Advanced metrics were a bit kinder, but not by much, with Reds’ relievers putting up a 4.56 FIP and 4.34 xFIP. The club has been rumored to be cutting payroll this offseason, making it unlikely they bolster their staff with a big free agent splash. That means that improvement from internal options like Kuhnel will be important for them as they try to walk a fine line of keeping spending down but staying competitive.
Some other Central notes…
- Chris McCoskey of The Detroit News is at the Tigers’ spring training facility, even if none of the players on the 40-man roster are. One player in camp that caught his eye is Gerson Moreno, who was selected to the club’s roster after the 2017 season. 22 years old at the time, Moreno lasted just a few months on the roster as he required Tommy John surgery. The Tigers released and re-signed him in the summer of 2018. His rehab period wiped out most of his 2018 and 2019, then the pandemic wiped out the minors in 2020. Last year, Moreno was finally able to get some significant time on the mound, throwing 49 innings between Double-A and Triple-A. His 4.59 ERA doesn’t jump out, but his 33.2% strikeout rate is excellent. It does, however, come with an elevated 13.2% walk rate. The Tigers spent big already this offseason to upgrade their rotation and lineup with Eduardo Rodriguez and Javier Baez but haven’t made a big move in the bullpen. If the 26-year-old Moreno can take a step forward, he could give them a boost from within.
- Other than Eduardo Rodriguez, the Tigers’ rotation consists of hurlers they drafted and developed: Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal, Matt Manning and Tyler Alexander. The next guy behind them on that path is Jackson Jobe, according to Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press. Selected by the Tigers with the third overall pick in last year’s draft, Jobe is just 19 years old and isn’t close to the majors, but is already drawing rave reviews. MLB Pipeline ranks him the 46th-best prospect in baseball and Baseball America places him in the 79th spot. Petzold spoke to one scout, who had nothing but superlatives to offer about the right-hander, giving Jobe’s fastball and changeup 70s and his breaking ball an 80, on the 20-80 scouting scale. Jobe is still quite young, meaning Tigers fans will need to be patient, but the scout offers this as the ceiling: “If everything lines up, he’s the No. 1 starter in the big leagues on a championship team.”
still cant believe the Tigers got Jobe and Madden in the same round.
Pitching is a huge part of a successful contending baseball team.
The Tigers have built their next contender on pitching,
Now, they are filling out their position player needs.
The Tigers will contend in ’22, ’23 and for years going forward.
They are smart to emphasize pitching in the draft if for no other reason than the lack of development of position players in their farm system. Hopefully, that has changed recently.
Tigers farm system did develop and keep some players in the past like Curtis Granderson, Justin Verlander and many more. Many others were used in trades to get key pieces like Maybin, Miller and more for Cabrera etc. Some baseball analyists and experts are saying the current crop of players on the Tigers farm is reminiscent of the system that built the
’84 Tigers Championship team,.
With teams looking to acquire players (particularly pitchers) via trades and FA, it’s really amazing that the Tigers have drafted and developed 4 of the 5 pitchers in their starting rotation. Although I may be extra impressed because my team (the Red Sox) just can’t seem to figure out how to do that.
I wouldn’t be too impressed with the Tigers young pitchers just yet. Alexander led the staff with a FIP of 4.39 so there is a ton of room for regression across the board.
They all look more OK than good, honestly. An entire staff of number 4-5 starters.
I worry this is true.
All but Alexander were rookies. Even Clemens sucked as a rookie. Wendt will likely be up this year as well. Faedo and Lange added to the bullpen. Depth is great to have.
Pangolin…did you even watch any of their starts in 2021? Considering they were rookies and on pitch/innings limits they all showed a ton of promise. Not sure what you’re watching but I’d say the future is very bright for Mize, Skubul and Manning
Yes, I’ve seen all of them pitch. They all have problems with inconsistencies and their underlying numbers are troublesome. Some may improve, others will fall off.
It’s an interesting group of starters but I would not say they are going to be a strong rotation next year unless we see some large leaps in ability.
Pangolin..You have to also keep on mind the Tigers did not have a frontline catcher, shortstop or center fielder in 2021 yet these young pitchers pitched well. With better players at those positions in 2022 and beyond these guys will improve significantly
They still don’t have elite defense at any of those positions going into 2022, so until they prove they can pitch above last year’s numbers it’s still a middling rotation in my mind.
They may sign more players, but as their roster stands now I see this as an 79-81 win team in a very weak Central.
Tigers have highly rated catchers on the injured list like Jake Rogers (back this year) and Dillon Dingler drafted from Ohio State and a former CF who is very athletic and can hit.
Some of the Tigers young pitchers were just getting their feet wet in the majors last year. They have not even scratched the surface of their potential yet in this league. Mize, Manning and Wentz are only 24. Skuball is 25. Jackson Jobe is 19,
Young MLB pitchers begin to be in their prime performing years @ 26-27.
The pandemic may have delayed that, but these young cornerstornes’
will just get better and better as they learn the league and get more experience.,
It’s an accomplishment for sure, but taking Mize first overall was conventional wisdom back then. It’s also true that Mize, Skubal and Manning in particular have to make some improvements to become notable starters, but they do have the potential. I would also be surprised if Alexander becomes the fifth regular starter, he will likely be a swingman again.
Gruß,
BSHH
Alexander pitched well enough as a starter the last few years to be
a fulltime #5 starter. He has earned that job if the Tigers will give it to him remains to be seen.
Alexander tied a major league record by striking out 9 straight batters.
He should be starting in the #5 spot in the rotation.
If Jobe ever needs Tommy John surgery will he get a discount?
Also drafted were Spencer Trumbull, Kyle Funkhouser, Brian Garcia and Derek Hill.
Pro tip: every time you read, “because of the pandemic”, change it to “because of the irrational reaction to the pandemic”, and it will make a lot more sense.
Translation: derp dee derp derp.
Yea like COVID is no big deal with only 1M plus people dying from it. Wonder how all of your friends in the medical profession would respond to your lame/dumb comment
Believe whatever u want, the world wouldnt be in the position it is now if they wouldnt have had the stupid lockdowns and restrictions.
Millions more people would be dead, sick and dying without the proper medical precautions taken: masking, social distancing, lockdowns etc…
No matter how many times you try to explain science to
“borderline C students’, the still don’t get it.
Brewer67.. I believe you’ve had one too many beers but whatever…keep drinking your life away and you’ll live long and prosper
LOL
I went to over a hundred stock car races since the shitshow started in 2020, there were no masks or social distancing, and things are fine. Many of my friends in racing had covid and they all survived.
The simple and most effective response would’ve been to let people choose for themselves how to handle covid. If you take care of yourself like everyone should, you literally have nothing to worry about, and if you’re susceptible, stay home. Problem would’ve been solved in March of 2020. Instead, people like Jayheck here thinks he knows what’s best for me without even knowing me. Insane.
Don’t say “all…” because those in the medical profession don’t “all…” agree. They mostly just “tow the line”.
That’s kind of my issue with the “professionals”. When the first food pyramid came out, the base of the pyramid, that which you should have the most of, included bread, cereal, rice & pasta. Your basic Type-2 diet.
I’m an accountant and it took me all of a minute to recognize that was almost completely wrong. But none of the professionals said anything.
Almost everything they’ve said about cholesterol was wrong. They never, until recently, differentiated between food cholesterol and body-produced cholesterol. Is the miracle of margarine even produced any more?
What we really need is people, on both sides, questioning these “facts”.
Nice to see my beloved Tigers in a good position in terms of prospects. Thank goodness this hasn’t been screwed up with an albatross deal for Correa. Baez AND Bryant will be about $50 million LESS than JUST Correa. I wish they’d sign Bryant and package Baddoo and others for one of the SPers from either Cincy or Oakland, but they probably won’t.
Why would they package some of their best young players and hitters who will only get better for a 1 or 2 year rental starter when the Tigers have some of the best young starting pitching talent in baseball that needs to pitch every 5 game?
It would be a big mistake and it won’t happen.
The Tigers need to hang onto all the up and coming young position player talent to get back into contention.
The Tigers young pitching needs to get major league innings in, experience and they won’t get it on the bench or in AAA.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Trevor Story in a Tigers uni @ SS
with Javier Baez sliding over to 2B.
The Tigers have the money and budget to do it if they want to “go for it”.
Story and his 30/30 potential would work too. And I’m in no way saying empty the farm for a Starter. I’m just saying explore a trade for that top end starter they covet cuz he’s not in the FA market this winter. Rodon is too injury prone. I wouldn’t mind just a back end innings eater like Greinke either. I hope I’m wrong, but I just have a feeling that Baddoo will regress. I’m afraid that his success was not him adjusting, but the pitchers lack of adjustments. Time will tell.
Badoo went from “A” ball to starter in the major leagues an amazing accomplishment as a Rule 5 Draftee. He brings speed, excitement and swagger to the Tigers young team Many fans were buying tickets just to watch Badoo play.. I hang onto Badoo. Tigers aleady signed a veteran top of the rotation starter in Rodriquez. They could save some $$ by just resigning Willy Perlata who reestablished himself as a starter last year and could also be used as a “swingman” as more of the Young Tigers pitchers take their steps forward.
Javier Baez has an “opt out” of his contract in 2-3 years that he could use to test the market if the market gets better or stay if the Tigers are in the hunt for a World Series title by then.
In that scenario Baez would probably play 3B as the Tigers still have Schoop. Candelario could play 1B and when Torkelson is ready they can figure out how to get him AB’s at the corners and DH
Good points!.
Candelario has drawn trade inquires from other teams and could be a valuable trade chip for the right return of young position players. Isaac Paredes won a batting title in winter ball last year and could be poised for a breakout year. Paredes should be getting more reps @ 3B and 2B to see if that hitting will translate into big league production at the plate. .mlb.com/news/isaac-paredes-wins-mexican-pacific-le…. Tork and Greene are most likely in the majors for good by June of ’22 depending on when the season starts,
Offensively, Story is unlikely to provide much more than Schoop, who is already on the roster, considering how much more he would cost. Torkelson is expected to fill first base, as early as opening day. No need to push Schoop to the bench. They can go for it by spending their money more wisely than that.
IRT Jobe, how many high-drafted righty HS pitchers have succeeded? My recollection is that they are few and far between.
Adam Wainright? Zack Greinke? You obviously though of Kershaw when you excluded lefties.
High schoolers are always a crapshoot because they haven’t faced premier talent, because hitters use aluminum bats, and most importantly because they haven’t fully grown and developed. Jobe could become a true generational talent and that is always tough to resist.
I can’t be the only one who saw those pitch grades for Jobe and immediately checked his MLB prospect pipeline write up, can I? Each pitch drops a full grade! His FB is 92-94, touching 96 currently. MAYBE a 60 grade, definitely not 70. Same with his change.
Javia135: For a high school pitcher those #’s are pretty impressive. Could he get backed up? Sure, but at this point he does look like a “possible” 70 grade pitcher to multiple scouts (evaluators).
For Love of the Game8 hours ago
Adam Wainright? Zack Greinke?…..You obviously though of Kershaw when you excluded lefties.
=================================
2000 draft pick and a 2002 draft pick. I appreciate your backup documentation on “few and far between.
IRT Kershaw, HS lefties have a better history than righties. That’s why I excluded lefties.
Drafting Jobe instead of highly rated young SS Mayer was a big risk.
But, if that kid stays healthy, he should be a #1 starter in the majors by ’24.
Jobe has the major league stuff, maturity, development etc to be a very special young, impact pitcher at the highest level in MLB. Scouts who have been successful in MLB for a long time rate Jobe as “off the charts” for his potential and that they have rarely seen a young HS pitcher with his talent, development of multiple “out pitches” poise, maturity etc at the high school level.
If they are right, then the Tigers have their next young Verlander or Scherzer
on the farm and just a few year away from pitching in a pennant race.
34.7% of High School pitchers drafted make the majors and have success
according to what I saw online.
I think the Tigers made a major mistake not taking Marcelo Mayer.
I am still expecting the Tigers to add a back end starter and a lefty reliever. Chafin would be spectacular, but would settle for Shreve. Several starters to choose from, Grienke, Smyly, Cueto, Kim, Kikuchi, and Pineda. Just need to add reliable innings.
Would love Grienke but he prefers the NL.
A swingman like Smyly would be a good fit.
Smyly worked successfully as both as a starter and a reliever on
the last Tigers team in a pennant race.
He might be on the expensive side for that role now.
Grienke likes hitting, universal DH basically makes preference moot. I like Grienke as a veteran mentor for the young guys and he played for Hinch during the Astros 2019 World Series run. He’d be a good fit
Jackson Jobe better be “the real deal” since the Tigers passed on
SS Marcelo Meyer who would have been their young SS of the future.
And don’t forget LHSP Joey Wentz received from the Braves in a trade
for Shane Greene. Wentz was the 40th pick in the 2016 MLB draft by the Braves,
Wentz s working his way back from Tommy John and could
be ready for big league action sometime this coming season.
I remember a report saying Marcelo Meyer wouldn’t sign with Detroit if he was drafted #3 not that it’s Detroit but wanted to go to a big market team. Chris Illich isn’t going to spend like a big market team like his dad did. If that really was the case there was Jordan Lawler as well who was projected to go #1 for most of last year and he went #6.
Anyone who actually watched Mize, Manning and Skubal last season would be drinking the Kool-Aid as they all took a step forward in one fashion or another. Mize’s K numbers weren’t off the charts like many thought they’d be, but he still pitched extremely well and got alot of groundball outs with his awesome split-finger. Outside of giving up too many HRs, Skubal was excellent. And Manning continued to get better with each passing start. The pitcher I’ll be the most excited about coming back will be Spencer Turnbull. Before TJ surgery, he was REALLY starting to pitch well (including a no-no). If these kids continue to progress as they have, they certainly won’t be a group of #4-5 starters! You pair that with Funkhouser, Faedo, Garcia, Soto and maybe a few FA signings outta the BP and you’ve got a pretty decent staff. Now we just need Miggy to rub off on Baez bat and our youngsters Tork and Greene to hit the ground running and we will be contending in 2022. GO TIGERS
Turnbull was the young, veteran ace before he went down for surgery.
He will be fantastic in that rotation when he is ready.
I still like Matthew Boyd very much for the Tigers to re sign.
Boyd was mentoring the young pitching staff, was a leader, has a great attitude,
is just a great teammate and great human being
(outside charity work with his wife to save girls and women form sexual exploitation in Africa).
It would be a great story to see Boyd leading this young team into pennant races after “taking one for the team” during the “dog days” of the long rebuild.
Very true about Boyd being a great human being and clubhouse leader. Every single pitcher that got interviewed by the Tigers either pre or post game always had amazing things to say about him. You can’t have enough Matthew Boyd’s around when you’ve got a staff this young. Not to mention more kids coming this year (Tork, Greene, Kreiter, etc). Great point!
Skubal has ace material, just work on cutting down the HR a bit
Fulmer’s turned out to be an excellent late inning reliever too. Plus, the Lange kid had a nice lil run last season. If Turnbull can get back & be close to what he was, the rotation actually starts looking stout! Even without the other young bucks (SPers) not really breaking out just yet.