Welcome to The Opener, our new weekday morning series here at MLBTR! Nick Deeds will take you through three things to watch around MLB, with our typical hot stove leaning.
With Game 3 of the World Series in the rear-view mirror, here are three things we’ll be keeping an eye on around the baseball world:
1. Guardians Dominate Gold Glove Award Results
This year’s Gold Glove award winners were announced yesterday, with a remarkable amount of first time winners. Also remarkable is the way Cleveland dominated the AL; while no other team took home more than two Gold Gloves, the Guardians brought in a whopping four: Shane Bieber at pitcher, Andres Gimenez at second base, Steven Kwan in left field, and Myles Straw in center field. All four of the team’s Gold Glove recipients are under team control for multiple seasons, with Bieber set to hit free agency after 2024, Gimenez after 2027 and both Straw and Kwan under team control through the end of the 2028 season. These gold glove awards not only serve as a reminder of the successful season the Guardians had, but of the incredible youth of the roster, and the team control that comes with that youth.
2. The Rays Face Tough Decisions In Arbitration
Yesterday’s announcement of this year’s Super-Two cutoff prompts a re-examination of the coming arbitration class. The Rays have 19 players up for arbitration this offseason, the most in the majors. Matt Swartz projects Tampa to have to pay out over $42MM to retain all of their arbitration eligible players, it seems all but guaranteed that the Rays will have some tough decisions to make in terms of who to keep, who to trade, and who to non-tender. First baseman Ji-Man Choi, left-hander Ryan Yarbrough and catcher Francisco Mejia highlight the list of Rays in this arbitration class who may change uniforms this offseason as Tampa’s front office looks to optimize their limited financial resources.
3. Yankees To Explore Trade Market
The Athletic’s Chris Kirschner noted in a mailbag yesterday that the Yankees “simply have to try” trading third baseman Josh Donaldson and outfielder Aaron Hicks this offseason, citing both roster flexibility and payroll concerns. Hicks and Donaldson are set to cost the Yankees a combined $32MM this offseason, money a team focused on attempting to retain likely AL MVP Aaron Judge while simultaneously improving other areas of the roster would surely like to use elsewhere. Neither player can be expected to bring much of significance back to New York in trade, however. Donaldson is coming off a down season that saw him post a below average OPS+ for the first time since establishing himself as a full time player in 2013, and will play next season at age 37. Hicks, meanwhile, slashed just .216/.330/.313 in his first full season of games since 2018. While he’s younger than Donaldson, he still celebrated his 33rd birthday last month. Kirschner speculates that Hicks could bring back a “mid- to low-level” prospect, but the more likely scenario is that the Yankees would have to engage in some sort of bad contract swap or attach a mid- to low-level prospect of their own to move these aging, expensive batters.
In my experience, people that don’t know much about the team refer to them as “Tampa”.
Interesting take “Sandy”, since their actual MLB team name is ” The Tampa Bay Rays”
Thought “Tampa Bay” was in reference to the body of water that both cities touch up against. And “Rays” referring to the variety of that fish species that lives in and around said body of water?
If Baltimore and DC would team up to become one big market team, maybe call them the Chesapeake Bay Fish Hawks, err Osprey.
Chesapeake Crabs are itching to make their first post season appearance.
Crabs . . . itching. I see what you did there.
Well….I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal. I don’t live in Tampa or St Pete, I live in the suburbs. They’re the Tampa Bay Rays. They’re not the St Pete Rays. Tampa Bay isn’t a city obviously, it’s a region. Those who refer to them as Tampa aren’t novices about the team, and they’re not insulting those like you who probably live in St Pete.
My mother lived in Largo, near ST. Pete. We always referred to her living in the Tampa Bay area. Every now and again you’d get someone say, “She lives on the water? Is she a fish?” Then I’d crack out a knock knock joke… man, we were like SNL. Not the really good SNL from Belushi and Radner… but the SNL group with Victoria Jackson and Jimmy Fallon… that group… oh man, we had ourselves rolling on the floor.
My mother is dead. They just refer to her residence as buried but we just go to the cemetery to visit.
Go Tampa
I still call them the Devil Rays because that is the name. It’s a fish and not Satanic. People really have to grow up.
You can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay….
Or you can call me Al.
I agree. there’s nothing devilish about the Devil Rays. they even have a uniform that says Devil Rays and, as far as I know, no one’s caught on fire during those games.
There was a schizophrenic player on the team who had a massive freak out though after they beat the Angels. True story.
Did they really drop “Devil” because of that? I mean, one of the boldest mascots is still in the Bible Belt and going strong at Wake Forest Demon Deacons. Oh, how I love that.
The owner of the Rays wanted to make a change. 10 years in existence and they were last place finishers in 9 of those. 1 year they were second worst. They had been nagged for years that it was due to the “Devil”. The owner made the minor change in 2008 and the Rays not only win the division, they go to the world series.
10 years as Devil Rays 9 last place finishes, no years over .500. A .399 winning percentage.
15 years as the Rays 11 years over .500, 4 division championships, 8 playoff appearances. a .545 winning percentage.
Donaldson and Hicks could be moved if they attach a top prospect… Dominguez? With all they hype, he’s either the next Mike Trout or the next Greg Bird.
Don’t sleep on the Blue Devils of Duke. ACC is satanic.
Sandy Kazmir, can we refer to you as just “Scott ?”
Or $100M?
Why is the first comment often the lamest?
@sandy kazmir- What a loss knowing nothing about that team.
Aw, poor Yankees XD
yeah, it’s a shame because Hicks had some potential, even though the contract is not huge, think they finally reached 5 bad contracts +-20 years (Els, Irabu, Igawa, Pavano and Jaret Wright) one could argue Arod and prob a couple others. always remember all those big money guys in the early 2000s were given by other teams (Brown, Arod First, Vernon Wells amongst many others) .
Yanks will have to pay part of Donaldson’s salary to unload him. He would potentially fit on a serious play off team as a late game defensive replacement and an occasional pinch hitter, but can’t think of a specific team that needs that piece.
Hicks’s salary is cheaper but longer. I wonder if he’s one of those players that does much better getting away from the pressure of playing for The New York Yankees.
Good luck trying to unload both!!
I can see Donaldson being a serviceable late-inning defensive replacement; he was still excellent in the field. But a pinch hitter? I don’t know, Mickey — he was the nearest thing to an automatic out in the playoffs. The bat speed appears to be gone.
Yes, that’s why he said “occasional” pinch hitter.
He may not be much, but he can still be a situational pinch hitter: late in a close game where a team just needs a sac fly, or in a specific matchup where data suggests he might have success.
He’s just one year removed from hitting 26 homers, (and was an MVP candidate in 2019), so there will be teams who — money notwithstanding — would consider him for a bench role. Yankees will definitely have to eat a lot of cash, and that will decide if he’s moved.
I guess that’s reasonable, WiffleBall. I consulted his splits and he had two hits in five at-bats as a pinch hitter this year, one of them a double. I don’t know how much trade value that might add though. With 2 outs and RISP and Late & Close, his BA and OBP were dismal. I don’t know how liable a manager would be to use Donaldson in those situations.
The glove alone gives him value, but the weighty salary is the biggest obstacle to a trade, obviously.
Just cut them both loose!
Hey Fink,
With 26 man rosters everyone is called upon to pinch hit occasionally. Donaldson would provide a team with some power a late game situation. It wouldn’t be uncommon for a team late in the game to be down to that 2nd string catcher and perhaps one other player. I would much rather pinch hit Donaldson in that situation than my second string catcher with the possible exception of Toronto. Obviously, the Yankees to unload Donaldson either pay a substantial part of his salary or include a good prospect. The Yankees used a lot of their prospect capital to obtain Benintendi, Montas, and others that they obtained at the trade deadline last year.
Sorry, Mick, but given Donaldson’s .209 BA and .266 OBP in Late & Close at-bats, I wouldn’t want to see him come to the plate in those situations. I saw too many rallies die with Donaldson’s non-competitive at-bats ending in strikeouts. But if some other team wants to put him in those situations, hooray for them.
Fink, You would rather see Higashioka???? I respectfully disagree old friend.
This exemplifies why the organization needs to move on from Cashman. The money they “saved” on guys like Harper/Realmuto/Machado, out of fear for the backend of those deals, they paid anyway, but at the backend of Stanton’s/Donaldson’s/DJL’s/Hicks’ deals.
It’s confounding. I admit, after Donaldson got here and hit in a few clutch spots, I thought he would be decent, at least. But, the Donaldson/IKF trade will go down as perhaps the worst trade since their last championship, especially in light of the fact that the Yankees taking Donaldson {enabled the Twins to pick up Correa.}
IKF’s SS issues notwithstanding, the fact that they acquired him as the “stopgap SS” until Peraza/Volpe were ready, but then used the stopgap instead of the guy (Peraza) he was stopgapping for, shows just how poor their decision-making has been.
They [created] the IKF problem by leaving him at SS when he was only a stopgap. He’s a UTL player and they should’ve used him as one. Peraza should’ve been up in August to get his legs under him in MLB in preparation for the postseason.
Plus, as a matter of my contractual obligations: I must mention Boone’s persistence in excusing bad behavior, and worse, making excuses for *losing*, which imbues a victim mentality…..Boone should’ve been fired just for that.
We all know Cashman isn’t going anywhere. I just wonder if the off-season will consist of Aaron Judge and nothing else.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they argue that. In fact, I fully expect a Judge/Rizzo- done, offseason.
They’ve slowly been hoping for the expectations in NY to lower and keep the “playoff-crapshoot” narrative at the forefront. They’ve even debased themselves by using the media to blame fan reactions to piss poor play as the reason for FAs not coming to NY, which is an absolute joke. If the money is there…if winning is there, they will come.
As Buck Showalter admonished Lindor this season, he told him: “The NY fans come to cheer, they don’t come to games to boo you.” He’s right. And the excuse-making coupled with blaming fan reactions to, as David Cone aptly evaluated, “brutal game play by the players” is a brand new low for the Yankees.
On that note, Cashman’s lifetime appointment should’ve ended after his 2019 loss..:again….to the Astros. Cashman is good, there’s no doubt, but the organization needs a change, starting with Cashman, and including Fishman and Boone.
I was surprised when the yanks picked up ikf. I had to look twice to make sure it was true. I don’t recall him being that good for the Rangers. definitely a stopgap at SS.
Both Hicks and Donaldson are sell low options, I don’t see how Cashman can move either player. I think you see almost the same team next year for the Yanks, unless Judge leaves, then the Yanks spend money on other top free agents and revamp the team.
I don’t think the pressure of NY so much as he just can’t stay healthy enough to get into a routine again.
Keep Ji Man he’s good in the club and on the field.
He’s a platoon 1B, that’s hardly irreplaceable.
“Choi needs to get out of the ALE!!!” -Gerrit Cole probably
I love Ji-Man, but he may have peaked. TB can’t afford a clubhouse guy at 1B with such lousy hitting (a fourth outfielder who runs well and playa great defense, sure). He had a great run, and I will continue to wear all my Ji-Man t-shirts, but I think he’s gone.
Here we go with another offseason of Yankee fans expecting the moon for two washed-up players only because they happen to wear pinstripes. It’s always entertaining.
Here’s my take:
Josh Donaldson and Aaron Hicks for Ohtani & 2 of their top 5 prospects.
Book it!
Do the Angels have any top five prospects?
I said 2 of the Angels top 5 prospects. I’m not saying they have any actual top five overall ranked.
I knew what you meant. It’s
just a joke about the quality of their prospects.
@Joe says…
Fair enough.
Old York…I’m not an angels fan or a yanks fan but IF the angels were going to entertain any offers on ohtani, I doubt that’s the money package they are looking for. I’m sure you were being sarcastic though right? Ha!
@Balk
I’m just joking around. jekporkins put the bait out and I played with it.
In reality, you could probably get a bag of peanuts in return for Josh Donaldson and Aaron Hicks.
Old York…haha, exactly…bad spot to be in if you’re trying to unload these two dudes with any expectations.
Ohtani isn’t going anywhere. if Rendon stays healthy and the Angels can ever figure out how to assemble a pitching, they might actually win some games.
their pitching was fine last year
I think Rendon is dogging it. Said he wanted to retire early before he signed with the Angels and he’s basically retired on the job. Don’t expect him to stay healthy for a whole season. He cherishes the time off.
It’s called quiet quitting.
Donaldson and Hicks for Rendon.
Sounds like a Cashman trade taking on some other teams Long term commitment.
No one is expecting anything. It’s these type of comments that get them going.
Here we go with another Yankee-hater posting his fantasies about what Yankee fans think.
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, no one disprizes Hicks or Donaldson more than Yankee fans do. I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of us don’t expect anything significant in return, if those two are even tradable at all.
Donaldson shouldn’t be too hard to move. A Gallo type return isn’t out of the question. Hicks is more difficult because of his recent injury. If he had finished healthy I would have expected a less than Gallo return.
Donaldson not hard to move? What are you smoking and can I have some? Dude makes almost $30m and is a 1.5 win player now. And he’s 37. That’s some serious under water stuff. I’d say he’s at about negative $15m in value. That’s a good Yankees prospect going with him, or a big check, whichever is preferred.
Donaldson is owed a ton of money. As others have already said, it’s probable that they either have to eat salary or do a bad contract swap to move him.
Don’aldson shouldn’t be too hard to move if the Yankees eat 90% of his contract. Fixed it.
JD is only signed for one more year, and a $10m buyout. Assuming the team buys him out, it’s a total of about $27 for one year. That’s still a TON of money for a player who barely hit…
…BUT… he’s still a defensive whiz, has occasional pop, and if the yankees would kick in $17m, someone will bite and hope he has a bounceback season. After all, he was pretty decent in 2021, hitting 26HR, 72RB, ,827OPS.
Said it elsewhere, but it’ll all come down to how much the Yankees are willing to eat to get rid of him. The trade is already worth it because it allowed them to upgrade at catcher — which vastly improved their pitching and defense.
Braves would gladly give the Yankees Ozuna in a package.
Your numbers are a little off, at least according to BB Ref. Donaldson is owed $21.75M for 2023, with an $8M buyout. That’s a minimum guarantee of $29.75M for the Yankees.
There are performance escalators as well, but probably can be ignored.
Oh well yeah, sure
I didn’t know he had a buyout too! Dude is going nowhere
“The trade is already worth it because it allowed them to upgrade at catcher — which vastly improved their pitching and defense.”
That’s a funny way of looking at it, WB. The Donaldson trade had nothing to do with the acquisition of Trevino, other than that Rortvedt being injured meant they had to acquire another backup catcher. Trevino was acquired in a separate trade for pitchers Albert Abreu and Robby Ahlstrom.
Reacquiring Abreu off waivers improved the outcome of that latter trade considerably, but I’m doubtful that Cashman counted on Abreu being waived when he traded him for Trevino.
Spotrac has the salary obligation at $21M for 2023, with a $6M buyout in 2024, totaling $27M.
spotrac.com/mlb/new-york-yankees/josh-donaldson-86…
Sometimes, the smart move is to DFA a player with no future value.
Look at the mess Ca$hman stepped into because last winter, he would not simply cut (non-renew) Sanchez.
Fink Ployd,
BB Ref, has it differently. I followed your link, but you’ll notice it says this:
“2024 club option includes an $8M buyout, converted to $6M mutual option per trade to NYY”
I could be wrong, but I think the $6M is the option, not the buyout. I assume that means when the mutual option isn’t picked up (they never are), the Yanks would still be on the hook for the $8M buyout.
But there is also a $2M trade bonus to be paid by acquiring team making a trade even less likely.
CT Bronx: You’re 100% correct. That’s the problem with Cashman, it’s never about how a trade, DFA, or player move best impact the team. For him, it’s always about what he has to “give up” or, as I like to term it, winning the individual trade (most often at the expense of the team).
Tad, here’s some more detail from Peter Brody at SB Nation:
‘According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, the Yankees will be taking on the entirety of the $50 million owed to Donaldson. He is in the final two years of the four year, $92 million deal he signed with the Twins prior to the 2020 season. Per Baseball Prospectus, Donaldson will be paid a base salary of $21 million this year and next. He was paid a $2 million trade bonus by the Yankees upon his acquisition, and the 2024 team option on his deal has now converted to a mutual option with a $6 million buyout. His deal includes a five team no trade list and the following escalators for awards placement: $250,000 for MVP, $100,000 for second, $75,000 for third, and $50,000 for fourth through sixth. $100,000 for World Series MVP. $50,000 each for LCS MVP, All-Star, Gold Glove, and Silver Slugger.’
The five-team no-trade clause bodes ill.
“That’s a good Yankees prospect going with him, or a big check, whichever is preferred.”
Conceivably both.
If he were a free agent this year, I can’t see any body offering him a $10M guarantee.
After the whole fan booing kerfuffle, Donaldson may be lenient on the no trade clause, assuming he can be dealt at all. My guess is it would take the Yanks chipping in about $22M of the remaining $29M, accepting a lottery pick or two.
what are the odds of him ever collecting any of those bonuses?
I think the hatred of the Yankees has nothing to do with the players. it’s the media, and I mean the national media. for instance, how many times are the Yankees on national TV? and if it’s not the Yankees, it’s the Mets. I remember one member of the press said that 80 percent of the country hates the Yankees. I think it’s the media shoving them down our throats, not the team itself.
Yet when you travel, as I do, you see a preponderance of NYY caps. And no, no gangstas. I don’t see any gangstas where I travel. Last time on an extended tour in Europe I saw over 110 caps. One Dodgers, one Astros, and the rest all NYY. So there is love and pride out there, too. Takes a lot to wear a NYY cap with all the hate out there!
I attribute all of the Yankee caps in Europe to the fact that New York is the biggest city in the US and that’s all they know about this country. I’m not saying the Yankees don’t have their share of fans, but so do the rest of the teams in MLB.
White Sox will take Donaldson and Hicks for lead shoes Pollock and “I guess I want to play today” Moncada plus toss in a Bummer
that’s all the Sox need, another one-way player. the team is filled with dh’s and defensive replacements that can’t hit. I wouldn’t trade Bummer. he’s the only effective left hander they’ve got.
The problem is using the all-inclusive ‘Yankee fans’. Some of the Yankee fans posting here are objective, knowledgeable about baseball, and don’t suggest unreasonable trade returns.
OTOH, some Yankee fans are delusional about the trade value of the players they’d like to be rid of. I don’t know how many times I saw some Yankee fan thinking they could get some useful player from the Giants for Jacoby Ellsbury.
I agree with tad2b13. While there are Yankees fans who are delusional, the majority are not. Just like any fanbase. I see delusional trade proposals from fans of all teams all the time. And frankly, most are NOT Yankee fans. Most Yankee fans here on MLBTR don’t make trade proposals at all for that matter. So the talk about that is just typical hate and it’s pathetic and childish. Sounds like 15-year old stuff. And I’m not even a NYY fan. Just tired of this hate from grown adults.
utah cornelius,
Spot on, You mentioned what I should have. That every team’s fanbase has fans delusional about their players and their trade value.
jekporkins;
What you wrote is true about Yankee posters here.
However, a few days ago I went under some Yankees stories in the NYC newspapers websites that allow for comments. Hundreds of comments that are exactly what I’ve been writing here for years. None about the silly trade proposals or making the Yankee players out to all be superstars.
The interesting thing was that when Judge came up all were united in saying that there was no way he would resign with the Yankees. One guy noted that he’d stopped following the Yankees on social media. Could mean nothing of course. But the fans (and many writers) are fed up with Hal, Cashman, and Boone.
It seems some of the players are fed up with the fans, too, if there is any truth to the rumors.
In the past, when I’ve opined that booing one’s own players is, generally speaking, stupid and self-indulgent, I’ve gotten flak from other fans.
Well, now, at last, we’re hearing from Yankee players that it’s a real consideration among them when they ponder whether or not they want to play in the Bronx.
It’s not enough that the Steinbrenners grandfathered in father George’s silly military school grooming standards. The stupid fans had to add another obstacle to signing free agents. Then they’ll gripe when players take less money to play elsewhere. Those fans are their own worst enemies, but they’re too dumb to recognize it.
Well said, Fink. That’s my take, too.
Unfortunately, when you are in the public entertainment industry, it’s part of the gig you sign up for. Certain cities are more intense than others, but it’s based on expecting certain results. I’m not for abuse or offensive chants of any kind, but fans care. We shower winners with love. We react to things we like and don’t like.
If booing your own players is worth making the acquisition of free agents less likely or more expensive, have at it. Otherwise, you’re inviting the very condition you’re booing about — i.e., losing ballgames. You’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I agree, Fink. I think at a certain point it shifts from “voicing disappointing” to being spoiled and, in some cases, downright abusive. I could not believe Judge received boos during the ALCS just because he went on a cold streak, but I suppose it’s their prerogative. No abuse there, just a bit ridiculous.
Sure, it’s part of the gig, NostraThomas; however, when a player reaches free agency–as Judge now has–they get to decide if it’s worth continuing said gig in front of a city that backs their players or a city that turns on them in an instant. I highly doubt Judge would have received those same boos in San Francisco or Saint Louis.
I guess you could call certain cities more intense, but I also think it’s fair to call them less supportive. Some might declare it soft, but I also think it takes a certain player to say “screw it, I want it to come back and haunt them.”
FWIW, they were probably just booing the Yankees getting swept. and Judge just happened to get caught in the middle.
Re: Cleveland Guardians Gold Gloves
Pitching and the defense to support it wins.
Didn’t occur by happenstance. The team was designed that way.
P.S. Guardians and Orioles are almost mirror images of each other.
Hope to see them play one another in the ALCS in 2023. Entertaining, fun, opportunistic, fundamentally strong, smart teams to watch play.
Well, they won mostly because they’re in an awful division, but yeah, I give the Guardians lots of props for being a decent team with so few resources. When that sort of thing happens, the key is always a pitching development machine that keeps producing big arms every year. They now need to cash in some of their major league arms for hitters, and try and build a lineup. Their brothers-in-small-market-with-cheap-owners-arms, the Rays, have pulled that off on occasion.
The Guardians put the White Sox and the Twins in their place this year. How come the weak division narrative never applies to the Cardinals? The NL Central sucks
It certainly does apply to the Cards, who had a losing record this year vs below 500 teams.
the Cards are a strong team and a perennial PO team. the Brewers give them some competition but without Harder, who knows if they’ll challenge the cards next season. the AL enteral is by far the weakest division in bb
Cleveland against the playoff clubs
2-1 vs Dodgers
3-1 vs Padres
5-2 vs Blue Jays
4-2 vs Rays
3-4 vs Astros
They could not beat the Yankees (1-5) or Mariners (1-6) but otherwise did extremely well (17-10) against the other playoff teams on top of being personally responsible for the 500 or lower finishes of the expected 2 possible division winners in their division (they went 25-13 against the White Sox and Twins)
The Guardians then went 4-3 in the playoffs against NL East clubs, almost making it to the ALCS despite near no playoff experience
They weren’t a Centrally made club
no, they weren’t. I knew before the season started that the wsox we’re not going to win the division or get to the PO. I knew it would be either the twins or guardians. the Sox had players who just called it quits. TA, Robert, they could have come back but they decided they wouldn’t play the rest of the season toward the end. while the guards caught on fire and deservedly won the central, and the twins were playing decent the Sox just gave up. I couldn’t believe that the media (especially MLB network) we’re surprised that the Sox didn’t win it. not me.
Cleveland was #7 out of 30 against teams > .500. Better than TO, SD, StL, TB & Philly-all playoff teams.
I was pulling for the Orioles. that area seemed dark the last several years and I was hoping they would come out of it. I was disappointed that they didn’t make the PO. they seemed to fade at the end. the wsox are my team meaning you have to have a fallback team to root for.
So here’s what I would consider a logical question in regards to the goals of the Yankees as stated by this speculative suggestion about their trade goals:
How do you “free up” “$32M” if both contracts are bad? I can understand a team taking Donaldson and/or Hicks for low level prospects if the Yankees simply want the roster space and the other team will take the “star power” and the “upside”, but I do not understand how a $9.858M Hicks and a $27M Donaldson (or is Minnesota on the hook for that $6M buyout?) will get picked up by anybody in a straight swap, even if it’s a bad contract for bad contract swap- I assume the other team would rather deal with a cheaper bad contract, because otherwise how would the Yankees get any salary relief, or significant enough salary relief for it to truly help them?
And btw this seems more expensive than simply “$32M”, given the money left on both their deals- seems like more of a $27M + $30.5M left between the two of them. That’s either $57.5M or even minus buyouts, $50.5M left- in order to truly free up a meaningful amount of budget you’d have to offload those deals entirely and if you can’t do that, why not just release both of them and eat the money, given how little to nothing you’d get back in return on a trade?
Why just release them if you can get at least a low-level lottery ticket in return? Something is better than nothing, isn’t it?
Why just release them? If you are.going to pay them, see if they are healthy. JD is only one season removed from being productive, and there is not much out there at 3B to replace him. Yeah, have to agree that Hicks is done in NY.
TTO;
Yankees would have to include their better prospects in a deal, and they can’t afford to do that.
As I noted above, doesn’t matter about the money – it appears that Judge is pretty much fed up with the Yankees situation. If he leaves they’ll have to bring some name players in to placate the fans some. But it won’t be for the salary he’s demanding.
The Yankees painted themselves into a corner with their ridiculous signings and trades the past 3-5 years. The one with the Twins last year was especially terrible.
Eh. Not like they gave anything up of value but yeah, Donaldson was showing signs of being washed in 2021. He was a very late bloomer and a lot of people are surprised how old he is.
What they gave up matters less than what they took on, namely a huge salary obligation for a guy who was already old in baseball years.
how do the Dodgers do it? they keep adding top players and they keep winning. they don’t seem to have roster problems. this season they kept picking up released and dfa pitchers. most of them didn’t work out so they just released them. it didn’t to cost them very many ch.
If you release them, you still have to pay their salary, so why not trade them to acquire an asset if they’re going to be on the hook, regardless?
It takes another team seeing Donaldson as more attractive than available FAs, to be able to get an asset in return. Why would a team give up an asset, even if the Yankees ate close to $25M, when there will be similar players they could sign for about $5M, and not give up an asset.
Does anyone actually care about the Gold Gloves? I’ll admit, I’m an Orioles fan, but Urias only started 84 games at 3B and he wins the GG? Meanwhile Mateo wasn’t even a finalist for SS despite having better “defensive metrics.” It’s a pretty meaningless award IMO.
“Meanwhile Mateo wasn’t even a finalist for SS despite having better “defensive metrics.”
RedFraggle;
The GG awards were always odd. For years they had more to do with a guys offense as well as his D. But when I saw the finalist list I realized we were in no mans land. Having Bogaerts as a finalist over Mateo was it for me.
Happy for the Guardians guys though. I do believe 3 deserved it. Bieber I’m not sure of. I don’t notice pitchers D very much – balls are seldom hit to them.
Meanwhile, here in Pittsburgh, there is furor that Hayes didn’t win a GG this year. Yeah, it’s a dark time for Pittsburgh fans, as their professional and major college teams wallow in mediocrity, if that. Maybe talk radio is running out of things to talk about, but there were a couple guys I would have put above Hayes
@tiredolddude- Didn’t Hayes lead MLB in DRS though?
Agreed. Hayes had a higher SABR index rating than Arrenado this year and the rest of the field was far behind.
I guess my point is that 75% of GG is tied to manager’s votes. I don’t know how many GG winners have historically come from teams with 100 losses and unfortunately, it’s human nature for people to think of teams in pennant races before the also-rans.
Yeah no one likes to hear it, but Hayes is better than Arenado with glove, and Machado is about the same. Voters have just gotten used to Arenado year after year, not that he isn’t great.
tiredolddude9 hours ago
Meanwhile, here in Pittsburgh, there is furor that Hayes didn’t win a GG this year.
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But at least that’s a reasonable argument. Both guys were great fielders. But Bogaerts ahead of Mateo?
Sam, still wondering about Maddux and his 18 gold gloves. I think Greinke has a ton as well. I don’t notice it with pitchers either. I’m sure it exists. I just don’t notice it.
Kaat with 16 as well. The reason why pitchers win so many is because everyone votes for the same pitchers over and over.
As was Judge being left off as a finalist. And Vladdy winning 1B. Correa being a finalist this year after all metrics showed he regressed drastically from last year. GG is a joke.
Forgot about Vladdy. Perfect example. I can think of plenty better 1B in the AL.
I imagine the players care, and their agents probably care when they sit down to negotiate their clients’ contracts. You might find this article interesting:
blogs.fangraphs.com/gold-gloves-are-about-defense-…
Agree. Often other things come into play, e.g. hitting ability. Hayes of Pit led 3B in drs, but the voters just can’t not give the award to Arenado! Not as bad as 2020, but this year’s list left me scratching my head.
The Rays’ “limited financial resources”, almost like the owner himself wrote that. The money is there (hello, revenue sharing!), the FO simply refuses to spend it. Thus, we don’t sign any big free agents, and make deadline trades for the likes of Peralta. Frustrating. But it’s better than being a yankee or sox fan.
As almost no one remembers they were Freeman’s highest bidder.
Did they get him? I am not familiar w the numbers-aac, total amount, etc.
I don’t know if one example proves a point either way–I have followed for a couple decades, and they generally tighten the checkbook.
The Red Sox have won four World Championships in this century, the most of any team. How is being a Rays fan better than being a Sox fan?
The Red Sox have NEVER won any “World Championships” and you damn well know it!
Hokey Smoke, Chucky, you need to get over this obsession. You sound like a character on the cartoon show “Rocky and His Friends” who kept popping up and declaring angrily: “There’s no such thing as a civil war! War is not civil!”
How is being a Rays fan better than being a Yankees fan? Maybe it’s the choice seating and ample parking at the games.
See above.
It can be frustrating, trust me, but I read Sox and Yanks fans complaining even more! I like supporting a team that does not feel
The need to buy everything (the cheapness can be frustrating). No one expects much. And of courSe, all the “original” jokes about attendance and stadium…y’all make me chuckle.
I could give you a list…tying fandom to titles is a bit shallow, we call that frontrunning.
PM me, I’ll give you a list.
Tampa Bay spends its revenue sharing. Nothing requires that it all goes to player salaries. Ball clubs have other expenses that must be paid, also.
In 2018, the Players Association filed a grievance against the Rays for how they spent their revenue-sharing money.
Yeah but there is probably no way that they trade Donaldson w/o including some cash in the deal.
I’ll take a half eaten sandwich in exchange for either Hicks or Donaldson… anyone? Please?
Kolukonu;
No one’s going to give you that much unless you throw in a few decent prospects.
The team that acquires them is responsible for their salaries.
The Yankees always lead MLB in bad contracts….it’s a gift.
Unless Judge is resigned the Yanks have no one , nada , based on talent , that would entice an Ohtani trade. Not a soul. Ok maybe Cole , maybe. That’s sad if ur a Yankee fan.
Cole’s salary is way too high to entice Anaheim, especially when the team is for sale.
Cole’s contract is another in a series of bad contracts taken on by Cashman. Cashman paid for Cole’s Spider Tack years in Houston, despite Bauer having blown the whistle on that business back in 2018:
sportingnews.com/mlb/news/indians-trevor-bauer-ast…
Among qualified starters, Cole ranked 30th in ERA, 21st in FIP, and 40th in HR/9, and his is the largest pitcher contract in MLB history.
And he was 6th in IP and 23rd in fWAR with IKF being responsible for ~”earned” runs,” another Cashman special.
People just love to hate or be ignorant.
Yeah, it does seem like people love to hate — at least in your case.
You do know that WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement, right?
And Cole, with the largest pitcher contract in history, ranked, as you noted, 23rd in Fangraphs WAR (22nd actually, tied with Arizona’s Merrill Kelly — whose 2022 salary, including a signing bonus, was $5,583,333 or $30,416,667 less than Cole was paid to lose again in the postseason).
If you think being ranked the 23rd-most-valuable starter correlates well with being the pitcher with the second-highest annual salary this year and the largest pitcher contract in history, you and I have different notions of value.
I don’t blame Gerrit for taking the money. I blame Cashman for giving it to him.
Nah, Donaldson has a terrible contract, but only 1 year left.
Hosmer had 70 billion years on his lol.
Donaldson also has an $8M buyout. When Hosmer was traded, he was only owed about $7M for 2021, with $39M over the next 3 seasons.
So it’s $29.75M for one year for a 37 year-old guy that was about 6% below average, compared to $46M, for 3+ years for a guy through age 35, that was about 8% above league average.
Poor choices both, about equally bad. It’s certainly debatable which is worse.
Snapshot today , Yankees are below .500 team , lose Judge , 5th place in East unless some major major upgrades.
Judge is a Yankee for life. Unfazed by the pressure many players feel because of rich team history. Hal and the Cashman know this. They will not let him get away. Plus IMHO having someone in the line up making more than Stanton, helps numb pressure/anxiety Stanton puts on himself to perform. I expect a monster year and rest of career from him because of Judge’s presence. Quite the one two punch. And as an Os fan, I’m miserable about it.
Yankees won’t be able to trade Hicks or Donaldson without eating most of the money, see Eric Hosmer trade
I think Hosmer might have been easier to trade than Donaldson will be.
Yankees are going to lose big time this offseason. They will not succeed retaining Judge and they will not succeed releasing Josh nor Hicks.
Why does it seem the Yankees got old fast?
Judge will be a Giant.
Judge won’t hit 60+ HR’s in SF’s stadium!
Judge won’t go there.
Study was done of Judge’s HR’s. He would’ve hit 60 in SF.
Yankees “lost big time” last offseason and still were in the ALCS
walls17;
B I N G O !
And it took them 5 games to beat MLB’s youngest team in the playoffs.
Now…..
Talk to me about expansion…where we dilute the talent level of teams even more.
This is a nice format for those who want a quick read to get an overview. Fans of the teams covered could read the longer, in depth articles that would follow which provide more background info and analysis.
I think Aaron Hicks could be a nice piece in Colorado. Especially if the price is low enough. I’d much rather have him than to have Nimmo on a long term deal. The Rockies have Veen and Montgomery coming up in a couple years and don’t need to clog the OF with any more long term deals after Bryant.
Hicks will somehow end up on the Rays and will destroy Yankee Pitching….
Love this new “Opener” idea
NEWSFLASH: Every team simply ‘has to try” to trade the worst expensive guys on their roster. Good luck with that.
It’s extraordinarily optimistic to think the Yankees can off-load any serious portion of the Donaldson and Hicks contracts. They’d probably just be better off waiting. Hicks extension seemed expensive but not crazy at the time it was made, as Hicks looked like a real player. Donaldson deal showed Cashman in one of his weakest areas–assuming that older players would retain (most) of their youthful value. I really doubt the Yankees will outbid a West Coast team for Judge, if either Dodgers or Giants make a serious run at him. Cashman has to know that the Yankees are going to be in a rebuilding mode soon…they youth they traded last offseason and this past trading deadline just isn’t there anymore, and a lot of the regulars haven’t performed as expected….and look like they won’t again. I’d rather be wrong about this, but I’m not optimistic
As the article says, they can trade either players by eating salary/attaching prospects. Wait for what? They have two warm bodies cluttering their MLB roster. The Yankees can certainly outbid any team but the question is if they will. I haven’t seen the Yankees rebuild in over 30 years. Re-tool? Yes. But it won’t be anytime soon.
My point was there’s not a lot of value there, but Donaldson did have 2.4BWAR, They aren’t going to DFA him just for the heck of it, but no one will want to take on his contract without getting almost all his salary paid for…which doesn’t really make sense for the Yankees. It’s possible that he’s more tradable if another team suffers an injury or otherwise has a hole at 3B. As to the rest of the team….they are in the middle right now…not championship caliber, could possibly lose a key player to FA, and with the rest of their team a year older. I’m not a Yankee hater–to the contrary, but the last two years have been discouraging.
Donaldson is very tradeable, it is just a question of what the number is. Anyone needing a one-year solution at 3rd should be interested. Hicks is problematic due to the length and injuries. An under-performer can be paid down, but you need to be able to count on him for 140+ games. Otherwise, NY has to pay him down to a #4 OF status, and that gets expensive.
IMHO, they should keep both, but Hicks has to be considered a #4.
Non-tender Choi, I don’t think anyone would give up anything because they would already assume a non-tender if a trade didn’t happen.
Yarbrough you tender. But, you ask for a return similar to a 4-5th starter. If nobody pays that, you see how he performs until the deadline. If good, get the desired return. If bad, he becomes a lefty in the pen.
Mejia seems like an easy tender, no? Affordable and only 27. Backup catcher and DH. Honestly, he’s not terrible as a catcher. He’s seems capable and that’s it.
Agree, nontender Choi. But Mejia looks so overmatched at the plate quite often; I had high hopes, he’s been a letdown.
I think Yarb’s best days are behind him. May need him for a fifth spot, just hope we will slide Taj in there when possible.
Maybe the Giants would swap Tommy La Stella and his $11.5M salary to the Yanks for either Donaldson or Hicks. I know that those two Yanks were below average this season, but Tommy is getting a $5M raise next season after an atrocious year. Maybe San Fran would rather gamble on getting a small rebound from Donaldson or Hicks rather than sticking with Tommy at that price?
Why would the Giants trade a guy poor performing guy owed $11.5M for a poor performing guy owed $29.75M? If they wanted a guy like Donaldson, they could pick up Longoria’s option, or re-sign him, for a lot less than Donaldson is owed.
And I doubt they want Hicks, when they can play Yaz or Slater in CF.
positively_broad_st;
La Stella gets $11.5m in 2023.
Donaldson gets $21m in 2023.
Hicks is guaranteed a bit over $30m in 2023-24-25.
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The La Stella contract looks good.
the Yankees “simply have to try” trading third baseman Josh Donaldson and outfielder Aaron Hicks this offseason,
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The article is firewalled, so I can’t see it. But I see no reason why HAS to be traded. If Rizzo opts out, let him walk. Or even gamble with a QO. But assuming that Rizzo leaves, then the IF is set as DJLH-Gleyber-IKF-Doanaldson, with a highlyused Peraza as the UIF, and lightly-used Cabrera as the emergency infielder.
If I were the NYY, this is not a problem that I would throw money at.
IRT Hicks, I’m not sure there is much of a solution. And you would need to wait on Benni and Judge to see what type of solution you want. He’s probably a decent #4 OF, just not dependable enough to be a starter.
If you want an almost comical solution, trade him to the RS for Hosmer. He can platoon with DJ, and then DJ platoons with Donaldson as well. Hosmer still hits righties, and has done well at Yankee Stadium. Get a couple of physics students to figure out how much under-water both contracts are.
You’re not platooning Donaldson and DJ (they’re both right-handed hitters).
I he means rotating.
You’re not platooning Donaldson and DJ
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i had in mind the 20+ games Donaldson loses to injuries.
Joe;
The Yankees would trade Donaldson to the Red Sox for Hosmer in a heartbeat….
The team employing Hosmer pays him minimum wage; the team employing Donaldson owes him $21m in 2023.
I’d absolutely give a Rizzo a Q.O. If he walks, an infield with 65 homeruns tops including Trevino just isn’t going to cut it in the AL East with your proposed alignment.
If RS take all of JD’s salary, I’ll pick up Hos myself, drive to and DFA him in Staten Island as the Padres are paying him over the next three seasons. All things equal, I’ll take Carpenter over Hos.
If Anthony Rendon waived his NTC, I would trade him for Donaldson and Hicks for 2024 and beyond salary relief. It would free up money for Ohtani (if he re-signed). Hicks would be a fine veteran outfielder to man one of the corners while letting Adell and Moniak battle for the other corner.
It’s weird, the Yankees came in first and the Red Sox came in last, and yet both teams are a hot mess. Maybe this cracks the door open for the Orioles to be moving upwards in the AL East. It wouldn’t be the worst thing if neither team made the postseason next year. Of course, fans would freak out. But us old-timers have seen it all before, so it’s no big deal.
If the Angels traded Rendon for Hicks and JD, it’ll make Ohtani even less likely to resign as they both don’t improve their team. Hicks is a fourth outfielder at this point. I believe Ohtani would take a hometown discount if the Angels made the effort to be competitive. As a NYY fan, I don’t want Rendon and his contract.