DECEMBER 9: New York has officially announced they’ve signed Robertson to a one-year contract.
DECEMBER 8: The Mets and reliever David Robertson are in agreement on a one-year, $10MM deal. There are no options or incentives. Robertson, who is self-represented, has already passed his physical.
Robertson, 38 in April, has a lengthy track record of success as a major league reliever. In nine straight seasons from 2010 to 2018, he threw at least 60 innings while never posting an ERA higher than 3.82. Though his control wasn’t always pinpoint perfect, he never had a strikeout rate lower than 26% in any of those seasons. For reference, this year’s league average for relief pitchers was 23.6%.
Unfortunately, that long stretch of reliability came to an abrupt halt in 2019. After signing a two-year, $23MM deal with the Phillies, he only made seven appearances due to injuries, eventually culminating in Tommy John surgery. That kept him out of action for most of that year and all of 2020. He returned to the mound in 2021, starting with that summer’s Olympics and then joining the Rays for 12 appearances after.
That was enough for the Cubs to take a flier on Robertson for 2022, when he truly got back into form. He tossed 40 1/3 innings for the Cubs with a 2.23 ERA and 30.9% strikeout rate. The walks were on the high side at 11.5%, but they didn’t stop him from being tremendously effective, racking up 14 saves in that time. He was flipped to the Phillies prior to the trade deadline and continued in similar fashion. He threw another 23 1/3 innings for the Phils with a 2.70 ERA and 30.3% strikeout rate. The walks became more of an issue, jumping to a 16.2% rate after the deal, but he still added another six saves and three holds. He was able to add another 7 2/3 innings in the postseason despite straining his calf while celebrating a Bryce Harper home run, posting a 1.17 ERA in that time even though he walked 15.2% of batters faced.
Despite his age and control issues, his season was effective enough that MLBTR predicted he would land a two-year, $16MM deal, or $8MM per season. Instead, Robertson has opted for a slightly higher salary but with the chance to return to free agency again a year from now.
The fact that the Mets were the one to pay him is not a huge surprise. For one thing, they have almost an entire bullpen to rebuild this winter. Edwin Díaz, Adam Ottavino, Seth Lugo, Trevor Williams, Joely Rodriguez and Trevor May all reached free agency at the end of the 2022 season, leaving the club with plenty of holes to fill. They have since re-signed Díaz, traded for Brooks Raley and made a few smaller moves, with Robertson now added into the mix as well.
Secondly, it’s also not surprising to see the Mets putting money down on a player they like because they’ve been doing a lot of that. The news of this deal and Brandon Nimmo’s re-signing dropped in quick succession, adding to the club’s already huge financial outlay for 2023. Roster Resource currently pegs their payroll for next season at $322MM with a competitive balance tax figure of $335MM. That’s more than $40MM beyond the fourth and highest tier of luxury tax penalization, which is $293MM.
The CBT has escalating penalties for going over the line in successive seasons and the Mets also paid the tax in 2022, making them second-time payors for 2023. They will pay a 30% tax on spending over the first tier, 42% over the second, 75% over the third and 90% over the fourth. That means that they are currently slated to pay a tax of about $67MM, on top of that $322MM payroll. It’s also possible that they’re not done, as Andy Martino of SNY reports that they could still sign Kodai Senga.
For now, the gas pedal is clearly down to the floor for the Mets, as they have spent aggressively in trying to stay competitive for next year. They won 101 games in 2022 but had a huge free agent class that consisted of Nimmo, Díaz, Jacob deGrom, Taijuan Walker, Chris Bassitt and the aforementioned batch of relievers. deGrom and Walker have signed elsewhere, but the Mets signed Justin Verlander and José Quintana to replace them, in addition to retaining Díaz and Nimmo, with Robertson now added into the mix as well. He will likely be in line for setup duty with Díaz in the closer role, but it’s possible that the Mets still have plenty of more surprises up their sleeves to be revealed between now and Opening Day.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported that Robertson and the Mets were connecting on a one-year, $10MM deal. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com first reported that Robertson had already passed his physical and the lack of options or incentives.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
There you go! Okay, now I’m starting to get more optimistic. Cohen clearly isn’t caring at all about the luxury tax penalties this year.
Good luck. As a Phillies fan, he blows.
Yeah, he wasn’t the biggest Phillies fan, but at 37, he’s still a darn good pitcher,
Did you watch his playoff appearances? He’s cooked
He had a 2 something era with 2 different teams last year so he can’t be that bad.
As a Yankee fan, I say he’s great!
Definitely agree. His famous blown save set the table for the Jeter walk-off in his final home game.
Career 2.89 ERA and long time closer being asked to be a set up man. Maybe it’s your pitching coach or tiny ballpark and not him?
Not to mention that his ERA in 2022 was 2.40 (2.23 with Chi and 2.70 with Philly). I’d take that all day. An ERA under 3.00 in that ballpark is quite an accomplishment.
He’s horrendous. Signed Phillies fan. Thought we were losing every time he entered a game.
@gregorydefelice: You being a Phillies phan doesn’t mean that you’re not full of it or that you have the slightest idea of what you’re talking about.
As a Yankees fan we had a different experience (good) with D-Rob. Solid reliever, decent cutter, excellent curveball. I think you’ll like the signing.
He did struggle after his transfer to Philly, but wasn’t he injured or something? Anyway, high K reliever, lots of postseason experience.
Clipper, Chasen Shreve for us Pirates was a blow hard, hope he does well in the minors for you Yankees.
@Ma4170, it was *this* signing that let you know Cohen doesn’t care about the luxury tax?? 😉
Takes me a while to catch on!
The Mets are not a serious team.
Fascinating take you got there, buddy
This dude was the closer on a playoff team who won 2 playoff rounds with D-Rob pitching leverage innings
He did not have it for the Phils, but he has ice in his veins and tons of experience.
Oh weird — surely they won the World Series then?
OMG! In that case, a team can only sign Astros this year?
@Neon Don’t really understand this comment
Von, It appears to mean that if you don’t win the World Series you are a failure of the highest magnitude.
D-Rob was not the Phillies closer at any point after coming over. They had ample opportunities to give him the job and intentionally didn’t. Aging hits a pitcher like it does a QB, hard and fast. I’d be shocked if he has an ERA south of 4.00 this year.
Did you miss all of last year?
He was not the Phillies closer. They tried it briefly when Knebel and Dominguez were down, but I think he blew 3 on a row or something. So he went back to a 6th or 7th inning guy and was serviceable while walking a ton and making things very scary.
@lemonlyman
EG Tom Brady, Verlander, Scherzer, Rich Hill, Billy Wagner, Dennis Eckersley, Bob Wickman, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Bartolo Colon. It all depends on the individual. Robertson is pretty much the ultimate professional as far as keeping himself fit and healthy goes.
@McGriff
12 pitchers and a QB over a 40 year span is about a 0.07% success rate that you’re using to prove your point, while ignoring that of remaining 99%+, plenty of those guys were ultimate professionals as far as keeping themselves fit and healthy. Father Time always wins in the end, and I don’t think a soon to be 38 year old who has thrown 12 or fewer innings in 3 of the past 4 seasons and is going to be an exception to that rule.
@lemonlyman
I was not using it to prove a point, I’m merely using those players as examples, that you can play the game past the given age or ages that you’re using as a player’s ‘expiry date’. As I stated clearly in my earlier post, it depends on the individual. In Robertson’s case, he has pitched & performed well into his late 30’s.
And what team do you root for? For all the money the yankees amd dodgers spent they have won 1 world series in the last 14 years combined. Probably a couple of billion easy
Why bring up the Yankees and Dodgers BK?
You know your owner has publicly said he wants to model the Mets after the Dodgers, right?
They won 2 in the last 15 though. 30 teams, 15 years. So Yankees or Dodgers have won the world series every 7.5 years. Not bad.
Yes a 101 team that’s getting better isn’t serious.
Have Mets offset deGrom loss yet?
Yes Verlander was best pitcher in baseball last year.
Please pay attention.
I think they can handle him not pitching 12 games in 2023 just fine. Based on deGrom’s history, they would have probably only won 6 of those 12 anyway.
How can they possibly win 101 games again without deGrom and his 5 wins?
Have they offset 11 starts in which he went 5-4 and got shelled by the As and Pirates? I think Quintana will have better stats than that let alone some guy named Verlander. I hear he was decent last year.
How are they getting better? More like status quo and that’s being generous. Meanwhile their already old roster is another year older.
Their bullpen is already better. The starting rotation will be better. They have the top prospect and 19th ranked prospects starting opening day.
Diaz is about the only one in that bullpen I would be confident in and hanging your hat on prospects is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
“Their bullpen is already better.”
As a Mets fan, I will disagree with you. Ottavino is gone as is Lugo. Maybe if you count Megill presumably getting healthier/better and Peterson (and addition by subtraction in getting rid of Rodriguez), but right now the bullpen looks about the same at best.
Bullpen better? Seems they lost more guys than they replaced.
They got the lefty they didn’t have last year.
I would have preferred Ottavino to Robertson. Now of course they can still go get him.
Younare not a serious person
So says the Marlins fan.
That’s an absurd statement. Verlander & Scherzer are going to be dominant in a 6 man rotation.
The Mets have a SIX Man roatation? Wow I had no idea.
Neon Cop, That is a pretty brutal take on The Mets. Think before you post amigo.
101 win season is not serious?
Have the Mets hit a 400 million payroll yet? Holy cow
They are working on it and obviously the luxury tax means nothing.
Eppler just has to keep it under $500M for 2023, but the 10 year plan might call for 1 Billion ….oooooh hahaha
About $330M. They might as well just go after Rodón.
@fred-3 Seems almost absurdly obvious, in all seriousness. They’re talking Senga, but why not spend the additional $6-8m AAV to get a known ace rather than a Sunday pitcher who has never pitched in MLB?
The Pirates are licking their chops for all of that revenue sharing money they’re about to get.
Well, not the Pirates. Mr. Nutting will get it.
Bob Nutting can use it to purchase whiskey labels.
If I was Cohen the only thing that would discourage me from going over the threshold would be guys like Bob Nutting getting some of that money.
I look at it like Alabama or Ohio State paying some directional school to play them. They pay them a bit, they make a ton of money, and they pad their record
At last someone who gets it. The system is rigged for eight or so teams. They think just sending a puddly amount to small market teams who can barely survive in this market makes up for it.
Not a business model for long term success.
Excellent move , strengthening the bridge to Diaz. A replacement for Bassit in number three spot and it’s a good off season for the Mets. Mets v Phillies games must see
Mets will finish third in the east.
@Neon
Third place is fine. It worked out pretty well for the Phillies this year. As long as they make the playoffs, I’m happy.
Neon Cop, probably 1st or 2nd actually. Try again =)
I did not like Robertson for the Phils last year. He was running on absolute fumes, but the man is cold as ice. No nerves. All experience. There’s value in that. He just seems extremely hittable these days.
Except his 2.40 ERA suggests he isn’t very hittable these days
He had great numbers with the Cubs, feasting on the NL Central. He came to the Phils and stunk up the place. BUT, thanks to balanced scheduling, he doesn’t necessarily have to play NLE teams all that much. So you may be on to something.
His era with the Phillies was 2.70. What are you expecting from your relievers?
He had a chance to close for a stretch during Dominguez’s injuries and he blew quite a few games. This was in a period where the Phillies were fighting for a playoff spot. So it was extra rough. He quickly lost his spot. He worked fairly decently in a 6th or 7th inning role, but would make easy innings very difficult. I’ve watched D-Rob his entire career, and he’s sort of always been skating in and out of danger. The fact is, he wants the ball, and isn’t afraid to pitch in any situation. Perfect mindset for a reliever, but he’s a far cry from his Yankee days.
@Von 13 appearances 15 innings against the Braves, Phillies and Mets, only 4 earned runs and he blanked the Yankees and Astros in his only appearance against each. Looks like all 4 NL west teams beat him up, but against the rest of the league he was good, really good
Phillies rode him a little hard which probably wore him down – 36 appearances in 99 games in Chicago vs. 22 appearances in 58 Philly games. He had at least 4 days off between games 7(!!) times with the Cubs, with only three with the Phillies (including the break before he joined the team). 37 years old, with 18.2 IP combined from 2019-21 – yeah, he was on fumes for sure.
Walks were a little higher but all his other numbers were pretty close to his career stats. FIP says he was a little lucky (3.58 vs 2.40) but I’m willing to bet the walk rate killed him there.
1 year deal is easy to walk away from mid-season if he crashes & burns. Low-risk, high-reward type signing to me.
@dannibalcorpse Sums it up perfectly. He came to the Phillies during a stretch where the Phillies had lost 2 of their closers due to injury. So he was a bit over used. It didn’t work out too well. Maybe the Mets are a better fit.
They are counting on / hoping for Senga to fill that role
Not yet. Could be senga
Wow
And the money keeps on a flowing…
Must be nice..lol
Braves haven’t done squat, all they’ve done is make a few cost-cutting moves, and then paid a high price to shore up their bullpen.
Having a strong pen is extremely important these days in order to remain competitive, but I’d still love for the Braves to make a few more moves to improve their roster.
They’ve made PLENTY of revenue to comfortably spend past the tax, and they said they are more than willing to spend that money, but idk, I guess I have to see it to believe it../:
The Braves are already much better than the Mets.
Thats why they lost in the same round
Just clarifying, Braves lost in the 2nd round. They had a bye in the 1st round. Mets lost in the 1st around.
This isn’t meant to argue which team is better or worse. Just stating that the Braves did not lose in the same round as the Mets.
Sure they are. They had identical records and the Braves are losing a all star shortstop and thhenMetsngot better.
101 wins for the Mets, and 101 wins for the Braves. Braves won the division on a tie-breaker. You don’t really follow baseball, do you?
Neon Cop, not really.
Braves are stacked with most of the position players locked up. Am I wrong in think they only really have to replace Odorizzi?
Lieutenant Dan needs to be replaced, and Grissom looked shaky on D.
For what it’s worth, they specifically have had Grissom working with Ron Washington all off-season on his defense at SS…
Now, that could have been to get an early read as to whether or not Wash thought he could play at SS, or it is also just as likely that they’re going with Grissom since Dansby turned down their offer, and they trust Washington’s abilities to get him ready.
Either way, their lineup is going to be relatively the same, except now they’re going to just have Ozzie Albies instead of Dansby.
I really think they should line their guys up as follows:
1. Michael Harris CF
2. Ozzie Albies 2B
3. Ronald Acuña Jr. RF
4. Austin Riley 3B
5. Matt Olson 1B
6. Travis d’Arnaud C
7. William Contreras DH/Marcel Ozuna DH
8. Eddie Rosario LF/Marcel Ozuna
9. Vaughn Grissom SS/Orlando Arcia SS
Bench:
Ozuna
Arcia
Piña
Hilliard (As things stand now)
So, even as things stand now, the Braves are in pretty solid shape, but there are also some pretty clear and obvious places where they can add some depth and/or improve upon..
Let’s see what AA chooses to do, and I highly doubt anyways that they’re anywhere near done making moves. That said, the above roster would pretty much become their “worst” case scenario…(Which isn’t even all that bad, they’re just lacking some overall depth)
Awesome line up. Just a few notes:
Acuna seems off still. Another injury would quite possibly derail him
You didn’t mention that rotation at all. Fried really put it together last year but not convinced he is a guy that is a perennial Cy Young candidate. Strider is begging for an arm injury with that delivery and small frame. Already had oblique issues with max effort every throw, Kyle Wright is a huge question mark until he does it again.
Second best line up in division. Arguably third best rotation as Nola and Wheeler are safer bets to repeat success.
That all being said, I love the Braves plan and aggressive nature with their homegrown talent. I’m jealous of their ability to consistently turn out great players. This will be fun.
Idk, I’m pretty sure Max Fried has more than proven he’s our Ace and an Ace in general as one of the game’s top pitchers.
I worry a bit with Strider as well, but injuries happen to all pitchers. His size has its downside, but he also gets that velocity from using his entire upper and lower body, not just his arm and shoulder.
I think Strider can ultimately become a 1b alongside Fried, but it’s going to really depend on him being able to repeat his success, while also making adjustments after hitters adjust to him. Plus, like you alluded to, this will only be Strider’s second season throwing a high number of innings as a professional..
I think Wright has it all figured out finally. I’m not all that worried about him repeating his success, as he’s already taken alot of lumps and had to successfully make adjustments to get to this point in his career. His ark talent speaks for itself, and I think he’s finally learned how to couple that with the right mental approach on the mound.
Morton generally pitched well the longer the season went on, so I’m not too worried about him either. We pretty much know what we are going to get from him, but there’s also the opportunity for him to start off doing well and gave a relative bounceback season.
The real key for the Braves will come down to who emerges as their 5th and 6th starters. A team never makes it through an entire season with everyone healthy, and the Braves are going to have to have guys step up.
You might start to notice a trend here, because, again, I’m not too worried there either..This is why I never really mentioned their staff, because I’m pretty confident the Braves will get above average results from both their starters and relievers.
Either way, they will have PLENTY of qualified candidates to ultimately take over that #5 spot and also to make any spot starts that are necessary.
Kyle Muller is arguably their top prospect on the farm, and he’s one of their more talented pitching prospects they’ve had come up as of late. It is Muller’s height and long limbs that have led him to some difficulties repeating his mechanics, but he really has seemed to turn a corner lately. Muller will have every opportunity to win the 5th spot out of spring training, and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he ultimately wins the job. Also, they will have their former Ace Mike Soroka coming back, although they’ll certainly play it slow with him, so it is hard to judge how he will start the season off. Either way, you don’t earn the nickname the Maple Maddux for nothing, so fingers are crossed he can take his time and ultimately regain his former once dominant form.
Then, do not forget the Braves still have their once upon a time post-season extraordinaire Ian Anderson who just might need a reset on a bad season. They also have Elder who has shined in some limited samples, and then they’ll have Kolby Allard as a pretty meh option.
Finally, they’ll have Freddy Tarnok in AAA who has some excellent stuff, he just has to refine a few things, so he can become more consistent. Even with that being said, he could definitely make a spot start or two as the season goes along, and it shouldn’t hurt the Braves chances of winning that specific game. Tarnok might even surprise some people this season, and come up as a late inning weapon later on in the year once he reaches his innings limit at AAA.
And perhaps Swanson.
They lost their closer and most likely shortstop. Yes they should stand pat.
Im a mets fan and yes they lost shortstop but i think moving on from jansen to iglesias as closer is actuallyy a positive and they shored up the setup guy in their trade. The only thing the braves need is a swanson and personally i dont think grissom can do it.
If im a braves fan, Im more scared of the sophomore slump as they have a lot of players in their 2nd year which is usually telling for most players. Not sure if its because teams have a full year of tape or they are now there for full season at the top level but sooo many drop off 2nd year and try to pick it up in year 3 or 4.
Either way will be one hell of a race next year.
Baseball will be fun next year.
If Braves lose Swanson that would sting I would think. They don’t take that division from the Mets in sept without him. He came up pretty big vs the Mets.
Braves lock up their young talent before they become free agents so they don’t have to spend 400 million.
Stupid giving huge money to unproven guys when they have rookie contracts and arbitration. Its flawed.
It’s no stupider than giving guys 11 year contracts that are already close to 30 years old. If they can buy out a year or two of free agent, those early contracts often turn out well.
@gregorydefelice Getting the heart of their careers, usually their first 2 FA years and an option on the 3rd, without having to buy out a player’s decline phase is enormously valuable.
Since insurance takes care of catastrophic injury, the only way you really lose is if a player’s talent just completely collapses, but can’t be IL’ed. And even then, if he had star potential, you’d stick with him for a couple of years, at least, paying him at least his previous season’s salary less 20%.
Mets are working on that. Have to fix decades of Wilpon failures. Nearly 100% short term deals with major upside and a growing and talented farm. They will be back under the tax by 2024 with ambitions to cultivate their farm into big league success while having cash to grab the marquee guys available. 100% great moves by Braves and Cohen is learning by watching. More of a Dodgers model granted, but learning.
The Braves don’t operate like the Mets and Phillies. Mets are in a win in the next two years approach. The Braves set themselves up for an 8 year window. The Braves are above average offensively at every position except LF and SS if they lose Swanson. Ozuna is a very streaky hitter so who knows if he shows back up and when if ever. The Phillies just showed how a 3rd place division team can make the WS with the expanded playoffs. Never expect the Braves to sign big free agent contracts and it won’t take much more payroll to get a over the tax which they told the fans. Also AA has been on recorded saying one lesson learned from his time at Tor was not going all in during the off-season but to have some flexibility for the trade deadline in July.
The Mets have the 6th best farm system in baseball. You do realize top prospects are about to start hitting the Mets roster yearly.
@SocoComfort Very true. The Mets are also under very different management.
Iirc under the Wilpons the most the Mets ventured for a very young player with limited MLB experience was when they gave an extension to Juan Lagares. It went bad, but so what? It was for only $25m. Despite his on-field collapse he still gave them around 4 wins. They still would have paid him arbitration year by year and it wouldn’t have summed to drastically less.
I assume if Steve Cohen had been running the Mets since, say, 2013 he would have sought very early extensions with the extremely promising Lagares, but would have also locked up Alonso, McNeil, deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Harvey, d’Arnaud, Conforto, and Nimmo.
They would have hit on most of those, easily absorbing the cost of a misfire like Matt Harvey, or Lagares.
@richardc Thing is, the Braves have in fact made their moves for 2023—they just made most of them several years ago. It doesn’t have the adrenaline rush of realizing the Mets are going past $350 million, I readily grant, but that team is absurdly stacked, and they seem serious about staying under the LT threshold.
AA also seems to defer some moves to the Deadline, when he sees where the team is and whether a player like Ozuna is completely lost or has come around enough to keep playing. Then he picks them up cheap, doesn’t go over the threshold, and rolls from there.
Seems like dwhen it’s not an extension he moves either very early, nailing down a Morton or d’Arnaud in early November, or waits until late July. Interesting guy, is your AA.
Guess Cohen hit a good stock today.
Dude is trying to make the east a race.
No Jacobo blame the owners who refuse to spend money on the team they own disrespecting fans and making their fans believe big spenders are the problem
Good luck to deGrom. Wish him well. They overpaid for him. Everyone is overpaying that’s how it goes
Maybe if *everyone* is overpaying it’s not an overpay, it’s market rates. Maybe it’s not what some writers on MLBTR predict and it’s not what Joey Bagadonuts, who sits at a keyboard and doesn’t actually write the checks, predicts, but that doesn’t make it an overpay.
Maybe if *everyone* is overpaying it’s not actually an overpay, it’s market rates. Maybe it’s not what some writers on MLBTR predict and it’s not what Joey Bagadonuts, who sits at a keyboard and doesn’t actually write the checks, predicts, but that doesn’t make it an overpay.
@ralstar Not everyone is “overpaying”. Just the big market teams.
It’s nice to see teams spend money. I know lots of guys complain about overspending and buying wins, but people can’t complain about both sides. I personally think owners have every right to spend their own money. Fans who think they overpaid can just watch from TV if prices are too high. If anything, blame the players and agents, not the teams for significant spending.
Excellent, well-articulated post, DeGrom. But I wouldn’t blame the players either because as long as they receive it they’re going to ask for it. Only way it’s going to stop is if people stop following sports…. Good luck with that!
My issue with this is that sports inflation has been much higher than regular inflation, and baseball in particular has lost sports share. I highly doubt the interest in baseball has increased at such an extraordinary rate to justify exponentially increasing. Inflation is about 2-3 percent a year based on the last few decades or the last century. It was higher this last year. However, Nolan Ryan broke the 1 million barrier, and gas prices, fast food prices, general food, and all the other non-subsidized food prices have not gone up nearly 43.3 times since then. This is unjustifiable, and the stock market shows that risk requires reward. There may be a few who spend money because they can, but there is some risk-reward element to it. Say you have 81 home games and each one has a max of 50,000 seats (estimated from MLB The Show stadium capacity). I have seen ticket prices range from single digits to hundreds, so assume an average of 30 or even 50 dollars. This is 202.5 million at 50 dollars a seat if ALL games are sold out. That would be the Yankees or Mets maybe. I know ads exist, along with vendor commissions, but the lack of general knowledge from fans on the economics is sad. Lower salaries = lower ticket prices and fewer ads. Scott Boras is coming up with all these mystery teams and getting huge overpays. Look at the minimum wages, cutting years to free agency, and pre-arb pools discussed this offseason. It’s hard to cite the market when unions are artificially demanding higher minimum wages and likely benefits. Imo, it is 90% unions, players, and agents getting greedy. Owners want their return on investment they would get from stocks otherwise with much lower risk and less public scrunity.
I think your perspective is valid. I do think it gets a bit more convoluted and because of that complexity owners don’t balk nearly as much at paying those high rates. Using your 43% increase for salaries I would be curious to see how the revenues and profits increased as well (I don’t know the answer) only because baseball is such an isolated business system as an exempt entity.
I can say from the NYY perspective, their payroll has finally increased from where it was 17 years ago. Yet revenues went up well over 800% during that same time frame. MLB is going to have similar numbers across the board too because of TV rights, playoff deals, etc. I forget where I read it but a recent article (2022) cited playoffs as yielding approximately $20M per game for gate receipts/stadium profits. More teams in, more of those team-specific profits for each participating team.
So the ratio for pay increases over the past 17 years is actually very low (say 19% increase overall on the Yankees) when compared with the increases for revenues (800%). I’m not making an argument one way or the other, just using a specific case in point to contribute to the discussion. It is interesting though.
*43 times, not percent
43^(1/42) = a 9% increase per year
Good points on the Yankees though
Sorry, man. Got it. That’s a lot of info, brother. Felt like I was doing a mini-math class. I need a warning before you do that to me…lol.
You’re a smart guy, I appreciate the conversation.
@Clip If you don’t already, check out Maury Brown who covers baseball finances. He used to run the site bizofbaseball.
@DeGrom Texas Ranger Nice handle. My only demurrer to your comment is in the matter of corrupt city and state legislators handing billions of dollars every year to the wealthy owners of MLB, along with their failure to pay historically normal tax rates on their wealth while benefiting from monopoly protection.
The corruption is catastrophic, really, and can’t be separated from the topic of player remuneration, generally, and team profitability since it comes directly at our expense. Cheers,
Blame capitalism. Free(ish) market. Nobody is forcing any owner into a contract.
No free market has 700k minimum wages. This isn’t even about ending poverty. This is literally making millionaires richer. Owners may be playing in this market, but the rules force them to overhaul an efficient market. Plenty of players from other countries could come here, and owners would willingly pay them their wages. However, the union has issues with bringing in foreigners since it harms US player wages by making things competitive. If players want to prove they are worth it, let the international draft work and replace players on strike. That is a real free market. This isn’t even close, given how the highest paid MLB guys in other countries get like a few mil or something a year. Look at Shin Soo Choo.
Since when is a free market about ending poverty??? Also please explain how the union has “issues with bringing in foreigners”. Is the Dominican Republic part of the US? Venezuela? Korea? Japan? Any idea how many major league players are from those countries? Lots. Lots and lots.
This is not what I am talking about. Socialism is about ending poverty, not capitalism. There was tension about an international draft and how it would harm US salaries. Look into the lockout. In fact, they could have literally hired foreign players from Asia to play for much cheaper. Look at Shin Soo Choo’s salary then and now in the US vs Korea. Owners could get some MLB guys too once they realized the lockout was pointless. My point is the market would get MLB players much less if unions weren’t so willful in their superiority. See here: mlbtraderumors.com/2022/01/collective-bargaining-i…
and from 2019
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/latest-on-push-for-inte…
“The changes, if implemented, would represent a significant further tightening of an already closely controlled labor-intake system.” Nobody will say it explicitly, but literally, these guys want economic nationalism since they know their salaries won’t last.
My last comment had a link to MLB TR and somehow got taken down. My main idea is that I am referring to the international draft. Players during the strike could have been replaced partially with foreign guys and then some MLB guys could take pay cuts when they realize they aren’t worth that much. The international draft’s whole point is that they want to remove foreign competition since their salaries would not last with competition. I was not talking about a free market, but rather the point of minimum wage increases (to end poverty).
Owners agreed to the minimum wage.
Thankfully it’s only for one year.
Noooooo, my fav player to my least fav team. I’m in tears
And nobody cares.
This is why I hate society
I care. Sorry, bud.
Good signing.
UNCLE STEVIES DRUNK AND I LOVE IT
As long as the coaching staff doesn’t expect any playoff shares it’s a solid signing.
Phillies fan here….heard he was a good dude, good signing for him. The $ is what the market is bearing these days…….
Does make me wonder if the Phils will add another bullpen piece….?
Welcome home, DRob! You’re on the wrong side of the river though.
He horrible
It struck me as funny that I just checked the NYM payroll to see if there was any ceiling. It was at $301.5. 15 minutes later, it is at $335M.
Joel Sherman has them at $325 now.
John Heyman has…….. Arson Judge to the Giants!
The man has one job and managed to screw up twice in one sentence!
Cohen could spend $370 before this all over.
2 more SPS and he’s damn close.
@BStrowman You’re not wrong. A #3 SP for the playoff rotation and a Trevor Williams caliber swing man (though he just went for 2/13m) because Peterson, Megill, Lucchesi, and Butto in the #6 through #9 slots isn’t what you really want as a strong contender, would do it,
Granted an old lineup is a year older, but seeding Baty, Vientos, and Alvarez into it should increase the pop, the only area it lagged at all, while lowering the average age a hair.
Odd, really, that they didn’t want to bring Williams back. Surely they know their front five will struggle to start 2 games out of 3 over an entire season?
Heh. May he pitch the same for them he did for us.
We would definitely sign up for a 2.70 era. He is not a closer here and sets up for Edwin Díaz now as opposed to Dominguez. Pretty wide gap between the role he is being asked to fill in a pitchers park.
Aaaaaaand the Mets pull past the Padres in the winter spend-a-thon. Eppler grabs crotch and says, “Right there, Preller!!! I’ll always be your daddy!!!”
Have to say. Really surprised by this level of commitment. Final NYM GM of Wilpon era absolutely ravaged the upper tiers of their farm. Razed it like a dystopian Earth apocalypse film. They have placed themselves on paper as a pick em with PHI and ATL. Would think that any more significant moves would be contingent on moving some salaries – but what the hell do I know? Cohen has surprised me
They are still the favorites to land Senga..
They’re still in on Senga. Some of it is a marketing bet on the Mets to create buzz for his pitch to build a major casino next to Citifield. There’s already a new soccer stadium soon to be built there.
I don’t think they need any buzz. Cohen’s bringing his wallet everywhere.
That’s where the buzz comes from.
I rather have Otto back…
Glenn Otto?
Dave Otto?
How I’d love to be a fly on the wall during the next owner’s meeting! I am absolutely sure that some will be complaining how the new CBA’s tax system simply isn’t working, since one certain owner keeps on spending, even double-digit AAV numbers on multiple relievers. At some point, the Mets’ tax bill will be higher than another team’s full payroll.
Gruß,
BSHH
Cry.
Only complaint is going to be not enough of the tax money is going to the other owners.
And at the end of the day………………… You still have to play 162 games. It’s December, across multiple posts we got a ton of “On Paper” Champions! Mets got better, Phillies got better as well. The NL East will be a slugfest all year long and with the new rules changes and balanced schedule games within the Division will be even more heightened. Remember, 13 games head to head instead of the 19 with the old system. This is baseball anything can happen. I.E. 2021 Dodgers that every sports writer and sports talk radio “Expert” picked. Again, it’s December no one is crowned yet. The East still runs through Truist Park!
That’s actually a great take, Bleacher Creature. Spot on. The potential roots of that casino in Flushing are far reaching. Jobs, infrastructure…
If they win a championship, naturally attendance/foot traffic would increase from the additional casual fans/bandwagoners. Guess where they’re going after games to celebrate wins. Guess which casino VIPs are getting comp’d premium seats at Citifield. Cohen has already spent a ton lobbying Albany for a casino license. He’s playing the long game and not senselessly throwing around money.
Yes and there is a whole ecosystem that emerges. Not to get too off topic, but there’s been some initial chatter about extension of subway lines from Brooklyn (J, M, Z). One of the issues that’s plagued the casino at Aqueduct is transit access from other boroughs. So yeah it’s sort of a master plan to transform the area. Cranes and construction in Flushing east of Willets Point has been happening for a while. Interesting South Bronx also has tons of cranes and is undergoing a clear gentrification. Would think that’s also ideal for a casino
I’m no longer living in NYC but have taken the subway from lower Manhattan to Resorts World and that ride socks. Then followed by a shuttle bus. It’s honestly dated-looking for a modern casino. If the incompetent people at the MTA approves that extension, it’ll take them three years to plan and a decade long to complete.
Yes and there is a whole ecosystem that emerges.
=================================
Assuming AOC doesn’t shoot it down like she did the 25,000 jobs Amazon wanted to bring to NYC, it probably a good idea. In any good economy, you want to separate rich people from their money, in a way that they will thank for it.
Yeah, the good ole savior Amazon with their Mother Teresa executives was coming to really help out another local community as they’re so well known to do. Please.
They would’ve received $3 billion in local taxpayer money as an incentive to move there. That would actually cripple the local community rather than help it. That’s $3 billion funneled away from education, infrastructure, transportation, public services, etc. They weren’t gonna move there by choice, they were being gifted the location and paid to move there. And there would’ve been annual incentives as well.
Why should a literal trillion dollar corporation receive billions in local tax money? It’s absolutely absurd. NYC could literally just give 25,000 residents $120,000 each and it would’ve cost less than bringing Amazon in.
Not to mention how horrible the workers get treated. 25,000 employees would’ve been treated like modern day slaves.
It blows my my mind how people just feed into this crap. But keep licking them boots.
Well said. Well said.
Boom! Amazing deal. Edwin has a legit set up man. Coming together and still tons of flexibility even after Nimmo. What a difference a real owner makes for this team.
In 2022, at times Robertson looked good and at times he looked finished (not in a good way). On a team with a closer (Diaz), there are other options that might have been better and cheaper but I cannot say this was a bad move, just a little more risk that some of the alternatives. Say Boston signing Chris Martin for example.
use him as trade pawn future
was hoping for a yankee reunion at the deadline last year (check out what he did in 2017 after returning). great guy and great teammate. this signing makes it harder to root against the mets
10 million for a 38 year old reliever that isnt named Billy Wagner or Mariano Rivera? There are so many great relievers the Mets could of gotten with 10 million. What is their obsession with guys that are on the verge of retiring?
And every one of them had great years last year. What’s your obsession for dumping on older guys still performing at high levels getting one or two year deals?
Mets are signing a team of reverse mortgages
Are they trying to be the highest aged team, lol. $10 mil for Robertson was too much for a 38 yr old, they should’ve resigned Ottavino instead or even T.Williams at least he could’ve been a backup starter if needed. They lost 3 SP’s and signed 2 , go get Senga , Cohen.
anyone remember when NYC was George v the Wilpons, and George won ~ 100% of the time? Who’d have believed that the NYMs would have a payroll maybe 50% higher than the NYY.
Or what were the chances that SD would be out-spending the LAD by $50M or so?
Strange times!
when the mets have old timer’s day, they can introduce the current lineup alongside Ed Kranepool and Keith Hernandez.
Hope he didn’t get too excited and jump up and down and hurt himself again.
Surprised at 37 he didn’t snag the higher guaranteed mone;y, but if he feels full recovered from TJS that’s good news all around.
Good signing. If the Mets are serious about winning in the postseason rather than just aiming at getting to the postseason, they’ll need another top arm in the rotation, and another top setup man.
6 great arms and an above average offense is a solid recipe for getting to the World Series.
CBT payroll about $350 MM smashing all time record
The only remaining active player from the 2009 Yankees.
23 Ks away from 1000. Amazing he was an AS just once. Spent the early part of his career as the “bridge” to Mo, which was a major concern for the Yankees before he arrived. Great career ERA and FIP. He merits at least some consideration for the HoF.