The Rays issued a press release today outlining plans for a redevelopment of the Gas Plant District, where Tropicana Field is located. The Rays’ proposed plan, which is in conjunction with real estate development firm Hines, is one of four proposed projects submitted to the office of St. Petersburg mayor Ken Welch for review, according to Colleen Wright and Rebecca Liebson of the Tampa Bay Times.
According to the release, the proposed project will feature “more than 5,700 multifamily units, 1.4 million square feet of office, 300,000 square feet of retail, 700 hotel rooms, 600 senior living residences, a 2,500 person entertainment venue, and various civic uses.” It goes on to say this will include “more than 850 affordable and workforce housing units on-site” as well as other features.
To be clear, the proposal does not represent any agreement with the city. Wright and Liebson write that the mayor’s office is expected to make a decision after reviewing all four proposals by the end of January. Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times writes that the Rays’ proposed project would likely come with a price tag in excess of $1 billion. Once the mayor’s office chooses a target developer, a term sheet would need to be drawn up for presentation to the City Council for approval. Wright and Liebson suggest that process could carry into next September or October, illustrating there’s plenty more work to be done before embarking on any of these projects.
The Rays’ stadium saga has been going on for many years, with various different plans considered for the future home of the franchise. For a long time, they were considering splitting their home games between Florida and Montreal, though the league eventually stepped in to put a stop to that. There have also been other locations considered for a new stadium, such as Ybor City in Tampa or the land occupied by Albert Whitted Airport in St. Petersburg.
The franchise’s current lease agreement at Tropicana Field runs through the end of the 2027 season.
Whatever it takes to get out of that dump they play in now! It’s too bad one of those hurricanes, couldn’t knock that gorgeous Stadium down.
I call it the Tin Can Warehouse.
If Tropicana field is considered a dump, what about Oakland Colosseum which actually smells like a dump?
Dumpster Fire Field maybe? Hot Garbagė Field? It’s a good thing the A’s to Vegas is becoming more and more likely to happen. When some one offers the land for free to build a stadium. You can’t pass something like that up.
Tropicana Field is a cross between a hockey rink and a hotel – all wrong.
Oakland Colosseum is a cross between a homeless shelter and portapotty station
It kind of gives community swimming pool vibes
The Rays and the A’s, forever doomed to play in horrible stadiums
And horrible cities.
Having lived in both cities. Tampa is not horrible. Go visit the area around the Colosseum in the daytime (definitely not at night) and then for additional viewing pleasure visit east Oakland. Again during the daytime. Then you see why Oakland Colosseum is a toilet bowl. Its because the local city and county government treats itself like a urinal facility for decades. I have been to many third world countries, I don’t have to go far to see one in my own backyard.
If the A’s and Rays can settle their stadiums, then Nashville and Vegas can finally get their expansion teams.
The A’s should move to LV & the Rays should move to Nashville.
Both teams have been playing in complete dumps of stadiums for far too long, and neither city seems to care or have a desire to keep the teams.
Does either team seem to care or have the desire to keep playing in its current city? The city/region gains something from having an MLB team, but not enough to pay for a new stadium. Let the team’s owners foot most of the bill.
Or maybe if you buy a team you plan on building your own damn stadium instead of leeching off tax payers.
If Rays go anywhere, it’ll be Montreal. I feel A’s move to Vegas while Indianapolis and possibly Portland or Nashville see expansions teams. I believe Indy is needed to balance the NL Central and Pittsburgh goes to the East again. I hate their time zone and start of games. Back in the East, they can have reasonable start times that suit the East.
As for Portland, I like the idea of them in the AL West and a rivalry with Seattle. AL West is a tough division and would be hard for an expansion team for several years. But I love the idea of Portland and Seattle rivalry.
If Indy doesn’t get a MLB team, Nashville is the next logical choice. Having them in the NL or AL Central would give them a rival with Cincy Reds or Cleveland Indians. The teams I think from NL league who should move to the AL to put one expansion club in each league would be either Pittsburgh, Washington, or Cincy. Moving Pittsburgh to the East (back to the East) makes so much sense for a small market club. Cincy in the AL Central to have cross state rivalry with Cleveland makes sense. Washington in that AL East with Yankees and Red Sox, would add 3 rivalries immediately. Which can make that division erupt like the Pittsburgh/Cincy rivalry. Nothing against Tampa (whom I think should move to Montreal) or Toronto, but the only rivalry in the East that anyone recognizes is NY/Boston. Add Washington to the mix, it could spark a bit more interest and slugfest. Tampa moving to Montreal, gives Toronto a much needed rivalry as well. It would make the AL East exciting again.
If MLB goes 32 teams, what is the configuration of the 2 leagues? 2 Divisions of 8? 4 Divisions of 4 like the NFL? 5/6/5?
Everything I’ve read indicates 8 divisions with 4 teams each. Of course, this increases the odds of a division winner with a losing record.
Baseball is in no position to expand. The quality of the game is already poor.
Baseball is looking to expand, especially since the NFL and NHL have already passed them in number of franchises and the NBA seems poised to announce expansion in the very near future, which would bring their franchise total to 32 as well. Expansion is coming to MLB, they just need to get the A’s/Rays situated first
Only the nba needs to expand. Which needs to be the Seattle Supersonics. They should’ve never moved. I know they were pretty much forced too but it’s surprising they haven’t brought back the Sonics back yet. MLB doesn’t need to expand. The Marlins should’ve never got a new stadium when they can’t even get 10k in their previous stadium. What made them think a new one would make a difference? They should’ve moved both Marlins and Rays out of Florida way before the Marlins got approved for a new stadium. MLB should’ve had plans to build a new stadium before getting a baseball team there.
This is a vey real truth.
MT, as opposed to unreal truth?
Imo, this has more to do with repercussions from an over-reliance on advanced analytics and less to do with available talent.
The level of talent remains strong in the Caribbean and Venezuela, It’s as strong as ever in Japan, South Korea and Taiwan and growing in Australia. Baseball is becoming more popular in Israel and parts of Europe as well.
I also believe that baseball is seeing a rejuvenation in American cities, at least if Chicago is an indicator. My 9-year old grandson plays in city leagues from March until early November, even indoors at times.
This. MLB seems to forget the game is played on the field with people, not on a computer. Plenty of talent around the world
Baseball is doing great in the big market cities. Perhaps it’s just a reflection of how bad the lack of salary caps is ruining the competitiveness of other teams.
If you’re in Chicago, West Coast, or New York, or even Boston or Philadelphia, baseball is absolutely huge and lots of people there are more passionate about their baseball teams than their football teams. But outside of this it’s really failing and it is particularly losing with the younger crowd who gravitates more to other sports.
Atlanta was 4th in attendance, st. Louis was 2nd and Colorado was 9th with a 68 win team.
The beautiful stadium is the main reason for that proving that a destination ballpark is a huge factor in determining attendance regardless of wins.
The quality of the game is a non-factor when it comes to whether the sport is in a position to expand, only the economics matter.
Voice, the talent level is higher than it’s ever been. I think you’re using “quality” in place of “style” because you, like many fans, don’t like the strong emphasis on power that’s resulting in so many home runs and strikeouts.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about anything but the $$$. When they expand, billions would be paid out as franchise fees throughout the other teams and MLB. If a relocation, that wouldn’t be the case. The Rays are in a good market and growing. Leaving it wouldn’t make sense. The Trop and it’s terrible location is most of the reason for it’s poor attendance. That and a disengaged owner.
So, of course, the Rays are now proposing a new stadium … right next door to the Trop in St. Pete.
Further diluting the talent so that more sub-90 win teams make the POs.
Las Vegas produced a big yawn when the A’s hinted
“how about us?”
I think you would find MLB would prefer Charlotte over Nashville. Larger metro area population plus a greater percentage growth of that population than Nashville. Both cities are desirable but I’d give the edge to Charlotte.
There’s no need for expansion teams right now. The Ray should move to either Nashville or Montreal (which would need a new stadium itself. The A’s need to move to Vegas.
I’m picturing envelopes stuffed with cash exchanging hands.
Any redevelopment should start with dropping a bomb on the Trop.
Redevelop the Gas Pants District!
Just leave and go to Canada. Get them Expos back!
Why do the Rays keep talking to St.Pete with geography and commute times remaining an issue? Seems Ybor City in Tampa or some location off of I-4 toward Orlando would be better, maybe near Lakeland.
Exactly. Ask any local Rays fan why the games are sparsely attended, and they’ll cite the location of the park. This project smells like a classic boondoggle.
I always read location was almost as big an issue as the quality of the trop.. don’t understand how rebuilding on the same site fixes the location issue.
The location excuse is a pitiful one. I visited Tampa this year and took in a rays game, and was bracing myself for a horrible experience getting to the trop. It took no more than 10-15 minutes to get through the bridge traffic to st Pete, and then another 10-15 to get to the parking lot of the stadium where I got to park in the 7th row near the front door because nobody goes. A 20-30 minute commute to the front door of the stadium is nothing worse than commute times to ANY major city stadium.
If you moved the stadium to Tampa there would be an uptick in attendance for a year or two and then it would go back to what it is now, just like what happens with literally every other stadium in the league
I’m glad that when you visited here you were able to easily attend a game from your location. The location is absolutely the problem. With its current location in St. Pete only people from St.Pete and the western part of Tampa have that luxury. I lived just south of Ybor in Tampa and now even further south in Riverview and would attend way more games if not for the horrible traffic here. I’m not making this arguement based solely on my situation but if they had a site in Ybor that would open it up to all of Tampa and places outside of Tampa (Lakeland, Brandon, Riverview, Lutz, Port Richey, ) while still having people from St Pete and Clearwater come too. A major problem now for people living here and not visiting is that if you are working until 5pm and from work then go home to pick up your family then fight through traffic to get to the stadium and make it there by the games starting time of 7pm is almost impossible or cutting it extremely close. Generally a 7 mile drive takes about 20 minutes during non rush hour times. A more central location would benefit way more people.
I’m glad that when you visited here you were able to easily attend a game from your location. The location is absolutely the problem. With its current location in St. Pete only people from St.Pete and the western part of Tampa have that luxury. I lived just south of Ybor in Tampa and now even further south in Riverview and would attend way more games if not for the horrible traffic here. I’m not making this arguement based solely on my situation but if they had a site in Ybor that would open it up to all of Tampa and places outside of Tampa (Lakeland, Brandon, Riverview, Lutz, Port Richey, ) while still having people from St Pete and Clearwater come too. A major problem now for people living here and not visiting is that if you are working until 5pm and from work then go home to pick up your family then fight through traffic to get to the stadium and make it there by the games starting time of 7pm is almost impossible or cutting it extremely close. Generally a 7 mile drive takes about 20 minutes during non rush hour times. A more central location would benefit way more people than it’s current location.
You’re experience is the minority, otherwise there wouldn’t be an issue. I’ve lived in Tampa over 30 years and have attended less and less because it’s never going to be a destination ballpark. Nothing going on around the Trop.
You are correct….actually twice!
“I’ve been to 1 Rays game on a day with light traffic, I know much better than everyone who lives there!”
“I live in a laid back town and traveling to a game is more inconvenient than 15 minutes in the car so I assume no other city has to travel to get to their games!”
Also I never said it was light traffic. The bridge absolutely had congestion. It’s just that it only took maybe 15 minutes to get through it. Coming from hampton roads/Virginia Beach area and dealing with the hampton roads bridge tunnel that *actually* takes about an hour to get through some days, you just have it way easier than you realize. Only a handful of cities are fortunate enough to have a team. I live in the 37th largest metropolitan area in the country and it takes me 3.5 hours to get to ANY professional sports team. Go support your damn team
It’s not so much the commute time as it is that there is nothing to do anywhere close to the stadium. I enjoyed the game when I was there on my honeymoon but there was nothing to do before or after the game.
You make an awful lot of assumptions. It was clearly light traffic if it took you 20-30 minutes to get from Tampa to the Trop. Whether or not it’s easy to get to isn’t even the only thing involved in the location. Don’t worry, you clearly know way more about the Rays situation than I do – I’ve only lived here my entire life and worked for them for 4 years.
I’m not making any assumptions. There is just an obvious desire to exaggerate the traffic to make an excuse for the poor attendance. As I’ve said, every major city takes a lot of time to get into the stadium. Even IF you were telling the truth that it takes 90 minutes to get there, it’s very much made up for by the fact that you can park very close to the stadium easily, that isn’t the case in a LOT of stadiums. Atlanta, Pittsburgh… both you have to walk a long way unless you pay through the nose for parking. And those aren’t even big cities.
Like I also said, if you got a new stadium in Tampa it would show a nice spike in attendance. For a couple years, then it would go right back to this and you’d have to make up some other excuse for why no one goes to games. Look at target field, marlins stadium, nationals park… it’s always the same story. It reverts back. Tampa would be no different. I’ve been to 26 stadiums and I PROMISE you, most stadiums are just as annoying to get to, just for different reasons. Like I said. Support your team. Get your friends to support your team. Someone who has to drive over 3 hours when the traffic is GOOD to see bad baseball, despite living in a major city… feels ZERO sympathy for your 30 minute drive. Zero.
@gocubs23
“If you are working until 5pm and from work go home to pick up your family then right through traffic and make it there by the games starting time of 7pm is impossible or cutting it extremely close”
Again, that is no different than anywhere. Try stopping by home first in a car or the metro in DC or Chicago. Try it in Los Angeles. New York. Milwaukee, the logistics of that stadium wouldn’t let you dream of it. And all of those stadiums, getting close to the actual door with your own car is way way way harder. Kansas City and minneapolis are easier than your stadium in that regard. Pittsburgh isn’t. The New York stadiums aren’t. You have a lazy, laid back city.
@phantomofdb
I can only imagine how much worse the commute time to ‘The Trop’ would be if the Rays actually drew fans commensurate with the quality of their teams. Fact is, they have finished in the bottom three in attendance every season since 2010, most often being dead last. Comparing traffic with this reality in mind to bigger market teams that routinely fill their stadiums or draw significantly bigger crowds is asinine.
But the hypotheticals you propose don’t matter, the “ifs” and “thens”. The FACT is, whether it’s because they don’t draw much or not, the time to get to the stadium is the excuse for low attendance, but it’s also a fact that it doesn’t take any longer to get from your front door to inside that stadium than it does in most stadiums around the league. With all the extra real estate they have, they have a plethora of parking. Most stadiums can’t say that, and the fact you have to walk, many times a half mile or more, adds to the commute time just as much as a little traffic does. I have been to 26 stadiums, and getting to the trop was nowhere near my worst experience (that honor goes to milwaukee)
Your opinion is garbage to be honest. You are the extreme exception to the rule of lack of traffic. There’s no fun to he had near the stadium and the stadium itself is the second worst in the league. Being in a different area would drastically increase attendance, period.
@DTD/ATL1313
The “there’s nothing to do by the ballpark” argument is a very different one than “it takes too long to get there”.
While it may be true that there aren’t dozens of sports bars around it, there are some nice restaurants and one of those axe throwing type places… a couple museums and a lot of beaches. So it’s not like it’s sitting out there in the middle of a desert. But also, how often are people actually needing to do those other things and not just going to the game??
And it’s just hard to believe I’m In the “extreme minority” we went to a weekday, decently attended game and got to the bridge shortly after 5, so what should be prime rush hour. It was stop and go, but it really wasn’t that bad at all.
I am telling you, as someone who lives in an area with a bridge/tunnel that *actually* gets majorly backed up every single day at rush hour (I’m talking 6 mile backups where you inch along, just to get ON to the bridge on a random day with nothing going on) that bridge from Tampa to st Pete was not that bad at all. And youre lucky to have a baseball stadium so deal with it and support your team.
I’ve never been a big “they should just move totally out of Tampa” guy, but the attitude on this thread is starting to change my mind.
And like I’ve said before, there’s not much precedent to assume a new stadium would actually bring up attendance long term
The location is awful. I’ve never heard anyone who has lived in Tamps say differently.
Baseball’s revenues are $11 billion, and growing pretty rapidly. That isn’t my definition of failure.
I used to go to a lot of Rays games. Yes, the stadium isn’t the best in the world, but I didn’t think location was a problem. Always got in and out without issues.
This is probably the worst choice of the 4 proposed sites. The biggest issue with the Rays stadium (besides it being a dump) is that it is in a terrible location and takes too long to get to and get out of. A stadium in downtown Tampa (Ybor City is a great option) will draw an extra 10-15K fans per night, if not more. The Lightning draw more fans per game than the Rays do currently. Regardless of what they develop around it, building their new home in the same location as their current stadium would be a huge mistake.
Don’t understand why there needs to be a huge housing and office space development just for a baseball stadium. My spidey senses are tingling that this doesn’t make sense.
Can anyone explain why this makes sense from a public perspective and the baseball perspective for me?
The goal is to revitalize the area to make it more enticing for businesses and citizens to be in that area.
You’re a lot more likely to buy a baseball game ticket if you live across the street. more businesses in the area mean the potential for more suite box revenue. All goes hand in hand.
Stadiums in the middle of nowhere with no other attractions nearby don’t get built anymore.
The Trop is in a hard to get to area with little to do except the game once you get there. If you have to drive an hour plus to get there, at least there can be restaurants, retail, and vibrant residential area instead off mostly warehouses and commercial.
It doesn’t take an hour to get there. Even in rush hour traffic
Ummm, yes it does and I’m 5 minutes from the interstate that goes there.
If you’re coming from outside of Tampa, maybe. Busch gardens is in northwest tampa and the trop is in south east st Pete. Including the 15 minutes it took to get over the bridge in rush hour traffic, that is a 50 minute trip.
Because if you can get the city to believe that your plan will stimulate the economy, it’ll be more likely to spend hundreds of millions in tax dollars to subsidize the stadium building process.
Let’s be honest. MLB (The Current Owners) want expansion so the can get the enormous expansion fees that both francises will have to pay the current 30 teams. Bottom line.
What they should do is let Oakland and Tampa move to Vegas and Nashville or contract some of these teams. But the MLBPA would have a fit. So the owners get richer. And the product gets diluted.
What ever happen to Bowie Khun’s in the best interest of baseball?
Oakland plays in the 6th largest TV market.
Tampa is the 13th largest TV markets and the team controls the Orlando TV market which is 17th. In fact, both are considerably larger than Nashville or Las Vegas.
Nashville is the 29th largest TV market, about the size of San Diego, and Las Vegas is the 40th largest. About 50% smaller.
Nashville has a good shot at an expansion team eventually. Las Vegas has no shot. There will be a team in Portland (#21), Charlotte (#22), and San Antonio (#33) before we see one in Las Vegas.
I disagree. LV is doing well with the Raiders and Golden Knights. I realize baseball isn’t salary cap league like the NFL and NHL. But I feel LV would do very well with the MLB team. With sponsorships now being allowed on uniforms and gambling allowed within the stadium’s, what better place to succeed than Vegas baby! They might be a small city, but what they can get in revenue from sponsorships and slot machines throughout the stadium, would carry that organization to top 12 of the richest organizations in the league. Better than some other organizations, hence my user name.
Actually, I think Las Vegas has a very good shot, Pads Fans. They already have the NFL Las Vegas Raiders and the NHL Las Vegas Golden Knights.
Here’s an appraisal that involves more than just the Nielsen TV market rankings:
therichest.com/sports/top-10-untapped-u-s-markets-…
Vegas will get a team because they’re flush with cash, and that’s what it’s all about.
I am sure Austin moved up in rankings since 2014. It’s population is now over 2 million. Plus more money and development keeps flowing in from the tech companies looking to avert high tax states like CALifornia.
Austin has no shot – the Rangers and the Astros would both block Austin. The MLB could work out a deal to bypass the territorial claims, but why put out that kind of effort when there are other unblocked markets available?
Vegas is going to get a team long before San Antonio or Portland do.
Pads Fans, we’ve been endlessly trying to prove that with people on here but it seems Las Vegas is so much of a stimulant for these relocation advocates that we might as well not bother arguing with them anymore. Though it shocks me that they still believe Las Vegas is a “good” market for baseball, it’s unfortunate that they will still continue to think that despite the obvious facts, stats, and situation going on in Oakland with the Howard Terminal progress and the mutual willingness of both sides working towards a ballpark there.
LV sure seems to do very well with football and hockey. You have to look at more than the TV market to get a real understanding. But that takes a little effort so…
Facts
One of the 4 groups is the Rays themselves.
I’m mystified by this entire article.
Baseball is failing because of its TV package. Entire swaths of potential fans, in particular younger fans, do not get to watch the playoffs and haven’t seen the playoffs in years. I know kids who have never seen a single playoff game despite watching throughout the regular season. Why? You can purchase the MLB package and stream the entire regular season, but come playoff time you need an old fashioned cable package.
Similarly, the regular season workaround only is effective if your preferred team is in another part of the country. If you want to watch your local team, you are forbidden from using MLB’s own streaming service because it is blacked out and you must use an old fashioned cable package.
If you do not allow people to watch the product, they will not have any interest. Baseball is becoming obsolete.
They’re going to need way more than just 600 senior living residences. 90 percent of people that live in Florida are at least 75
Come on just move already. Despite being a competitive team, Rays continue to rank in the bottom of fan attendance. Tampa Bay doesn’t care about the team.
Actually the Rays stadium proposal should help at the minimum increase walk up game attendance a lot more which should help with attendance issues. The Rays focused on other options first but have realized St Pete gives them their best option for a new stadium while staying in Florida.
When did mlbtr get that photo? There’s no way that many people were ever at the Trop. Unless The Rolling Stones or the Pope was there and I forgot about it.
A development with that place as the centerpiece? Highly doubt it will pass.
Take a bulldozer to that dump.
Shouldn’t this kind of stuff be saved for after the stadium situation is settled? It would be awfully silly to start on such a huge renovation projected centered around the team only for the Rays to ultimately leave town.