January 4: The Phillies have officially announced Kimbrel’s signing.
December 23: The Phillies are adding an established closer. They’re reportedly in agreement with Craig Kimbrel on a one-year, $10MM pact. Kimbrel is a SportsMeter client.
Philadelphia will be the seventh MLB team for Kimbrel, who is headed into his 14th season. He returns to the NL East, where he was arguably the sport’s best closer from 2011-14 as a member of the Braves. Kimbrel remained excellent after being dealt to the Padres and subsequently to the Red Sox. Dave Dombrowski was running baseball operations in Boston while Kimbrel was there for three straight All-Star seasons between 2016-18. They’re now reunited with Dombrowski leading the charge in Philly.
Since leaving the Red Sox, Kimbrel has had his share of ups and downs. He lingered in free agency until June 2019 before securing a three-year commitment from the Cubs. That deal looked like a misfire after he posted an even 6.00 ERA in 41 appearances through the end of the 2020 campaign. However, he looked good as ever at the start of the third season. The right-hander posted a microscopic 0.57 ERA through 31 2/3 innings in the first half of 2021, securing his eighth All-Star selection in the process. The Cubs flipped him to the crosstown White Sox in a deadline deal that brought back Nick Madrigal.
Kimbrel didn’t finish the season all that well, posting a 5.09 ERA for the Sox. Chicago exercised a $16MM option on his services for the 2022 season but shopped him most of last winter. In the days leading up to Opening Day, they sent him to the Dodgers in a one-for-one swap for AJ Pollock. Kimbrel spent his age-34 campaign in Los Angeles, putting up solid numbers overall but showing some worrisome signs down the stretch.
While his first half ERA was a pedestrian 4.35, he struck out more than a third of opponents in that time. The Dodgers relied upon him as their primary closer early in the year, but he began to fall out of favor as the season pulled along. Kimbrel’s strikeout rate in the second half was a modest 20.7%. His ERA checked in at 3.10 thanks to a meager .227 batting average on balls in play against him. The Dodgers were clearly skeptical of Kimbrel’s ability to maintain that kind of batted ball fortune. They removed him from the ninth inning in September and scratched him from the roster entirely come playoff time.
It’s surely not the way either Kimbrel or the team envisioned the season ending, but his 2022 campaign was hardly a disaster. He posted a 3.75 ERA across 60 innings overall. His 27.7% strikeout rate and 12.1% swinging strike percentage were each a bit better than par, and he averaged a quality 95.8 MPH on his fastball. He walked batters at a elevated 10.8% clip and gave up a fair bit of hard contact, but he still showed quality bat-missing stuff. While it wasn’t vintage Kimbrel or even at the level of his 2021 production, he showed enough to believe he’s still capable of solid play.
Kimbrel went 22 of 27 on save attempts this year. He’s now up to 394 saves for his career, most of any active player. Kimbrel should soon become the seventh pitcher in MLB history to reach the 400-save mark, and he’ll have a path back to ninth-inning work in Philadelphia. Players like José Alvarado and Seranthony Domínguez previously stood as the in-house favorites for closing work, though they’re each capable of taking on higher-leverage responsibilities in the seventh or eight inning.
It’s a relatively low-cost gamble for the Phils, matching the $10MM flier they took on Corey Knebel last offseason. They’ll have to tack on a few million extra in taxes, as they’re likely to exceed the luxury tax threshold for a second straight season. Philadelphia’s luxury tax commitments are up to approximately $251MM, as calculated by Roster Resource. They’re subject to a 30% tax on every dollar spent between $233MM and $253MM, so the Kimbrel signing comes with an extra $3MM in fees. It also brings them within a couple million dollars of the second CBT threshold at $253MM. That would come with a 42% tax on overages, with higher penalties in the event they top $273MM.
Precisely where owner John Middleton wants to draw the line isn’t clear, though the Phils have little reason to spare much expense on the heels of a pennant win. Philadelphia has already brought in Trea Turner and Taijuan Walker this winter, and Kimbrel joins Matt Strahm as relief additions. The Phils are set for another battle with the Mets and Braves in a top-heavy NL East, and they’ll hope Kimbrel has plenty of opportunities to lock down wins at the back end of the bullpen.
Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic first reported Kimbrel and the Phillies had agreed to a contract. Jeff Passan of ESPN was first to report the one-year, $10MM guarantee.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
No No No. Ugh. Feel bad for the Phillies.
He won’t be their closer. Or even main setup man. So that makes it tolerable.
Kind of like what Cory Knebel became.
Unlike Cory Knebel Craig Krumbel can be downright evil at times. Good guy tho hope it works Phillie cya
10 million a year is definitely an investment for a non setup man or closer
@ von he is getting paid like a closer or main set up man
@steven not really in the current market.
Closers are getting $16 to $20 million this offseason
He has pretty much bombed when not used as a closer.
Welp he can bomb again because Dominguez is the guy. Phillies don’t really use a conventional closer, so Kimbrel will get save opportunities, but he is probably #3 or #4 on the Phillies closer depth chart. Dominguez is the #1 guy.
No, $10-20MM.
What closer on the FA market signed for $10 million?
#3 or #4 ain’t so bad then. He got good stuff when he’s locked in and the pressure off. Those 4th inning outs could cone in handy.
The Mets gave Diaz over $100M for 5 years, so I’ll take Kimbrel at 1/5 the length and 1/10.5 the price. I know he struggled at times, and the Dodgers left him off their playoff roster, but I feel he has the talent/health to pitch very well in high leverage situations.
I agree, Dominguez will be the #1 RHP & Alvarado #1 LH, Kimbrel will be the #2 RHP to start the season
Hard to believe sitting at 394 saves he wasn’t at least promised the opportunity to compete for closer.
Dominguez is the clear closer on the Phillies.
My bet is on Robby T using all 3 (Alvarado, Sir and Kimbrel) in potential closing opportunities all season long…
They’ll probably stick more to the strategy Thomson has used since he took over where the best reliever will get the higher leverage situation whether it’s in the 7th, 8th, or 9th. Several of their relievers will probably pick up saves along the way.
Yes. Definitely. By clear closer I mean, clear #1 optionin high-leverage scenarios.
@i like al conin: How do you or any of us know what he was or wasn’t promised?
So you’re saying Robbie Ts strat will be Sir and some Mix a Lot at the end of the rotation? Philly got back!
Compete? There is years of film on these guys. Teams can view every pitch using the most advance tech. There’s no reason to have players compete even in Spring Training. The Yanks for example should know to a certainty whether Volpe’s their starting shortstop.
It’s a marathon of 162 I agree he isn’t the closer….. but injuries and cold streaks do happen and you sure can do alot worse than having Kimbrel and 394 saves in the mix…..he is a great option hope it works
@ham77: That is a community used strategy throughout MLB. Thomson and other managers copied it from the Rays.
He’s a depth piece for a solid bullpen and may be called upon for save opportunities at various times during the season. I think that’s the best you can promise a guy like Kimbrel and I think his joining the Phils shows that he’s okay with that.
I’m a Phillies fan and hope he fails the physical. I would rather have David Robertson who signed with the Mets for $10M. Kimbrel had a 3.75 ERA pitching half his games in pitcher friends Dodger Stadium. At a year old pitching half his games at the Bank he will be lucky to keep his ERA under 4.00.
@VPH you know I defer to you on ALL things Phillies, my friend, but I see this as wasted investment. I know Thompson is going to play the hot hand and he’ll get some saves, but I just have to think that those funds could have been allocated other places
@sascoach It’s a gamble. I don’t have high hopes myself, but I have a lot more faith in the Philly bullpen than I did 2 seasons ago. So Kimbrel doesn’t need to be the guy. He’s just depth, albeit expensive depth.
Nothing expensive about a one-year deal.
The 10 mil is expensive, but there’s no risk in one year.
Any other year, I would agree. The market set this year says it isn’t. He’s also a solid bounce back candidate. He’s struggled before only to return lights out. Signing early, I think, will benefit him. He doesn’t seem to do well, recently, with late changes in scenery.
I like this signing by the Phillies. It will definitely be great when he gets 400 saves.
Horrific signing!!! Any White Sox or Dodger fan can tell you how bad this is! Kimbrel had in his contract with the Cubs that he HAD to close. If you think he is bad as a closer …. He is 10x worse as a setup guy. Every thing he throws goes out of the park. Absolutely insane he keeps getting signed by contending teams.
You will see balls leave the park likes Rockets!!!!
If Kimbrel is the Phillies opening day closer, he will be removed from the role before the month of April is done.
He will not be their closer, more likely a 3rd or 4th option.
Interesting that 33 of Kimbrel’s 80 appearances for the Cubs were not in save situations.
Agree, Von. Kimbrel is a good add at a fairly modest price. True, he won’t be the closer on Opening Day, but he’s an experienced closer, and a nice guy to have in case Seranthony gets hurt and/or Alvarado goes back to his old ways of walking the ballpark.
All in all, I like what Dombro has done this off-season. And, of course, I’m more than thrilled about getting to watch Trea Turner play every day.
Merry Christmas to all my fellow Phillies fans. Get your tix early. CBP gonna be rocking this year like it did in 2008.
I’ll be in 236. Trying a different view this year.
Is that the same Craig Kimbrel that was left off of the Dodgers postseason roster?
Just curious…
I’m not saying Kimbrel would have made a difference, but let’s not act like the Dodgers postseason decisions were all that great. Also, Kimbrel can still contribute to the Phillies without making their postseason roster either. He isn’t their closer. He’s depth. Don’t love the signing. Don’t hate it.
Over the past 30 years, I would put more faith in Dodger postseason decisions than the Phillies.
I was only speaking about last year, but if we want to get technical, Phillies have been in 3 World Series over the last 30 years. Winning 1. Dodgers have been in 3 World Series over the last 30 years Winning 1.
Joeyg, I think you’re thinking of Kraig Cimbrel…
voneyes – Dodgers have been to the world series 3x in last 6 yrs. Juss sayn.
@cecildawg Yeah. I’d take the Dodgers las decade over the Phillies for sure, I was merely countering his point about the Dodgers and Phillies 30 year history.
Yeah and he won’t be on the Dodger postseason roster kn ’23 either.
I love when this stuff happens. You come with facts other dude came with nothing lol
Wanna bet? He’ll get first crack.
Definitely not. Dominguez is the guy stymeedone. I’ll take that bet.
Actually, he will. I’m seeing a trend among the smarter teams in MLB – putting a weaker reliever in the closer role. Knebel wasn’t the best out of the Phillies BP last year, not by a long shot. Bellatti, Alvarado, and Dominguez were the core of their BP. Former Yankee draft pick Nick Nelson (3.04 FIP) was solid. Knebel was awful (4.46 FIP),
Of the five core RPs in the Braves BP Kenley Jansen was the weakest among them and their closer.
Kenley Jansen 3.21 (FIP)
A.J. Minter 2.13
Collin McHugh 2.71
Jesse Chavez 2.89
Dylan Lee 2.66
It makes sense. You want your best relievers to pitch in high leverages spots which includes taking the mound with inherited runners on base. The closer always comes in with a clean inning and usually with a 2-3 run lead.
Agree. He sux!
Especially as set-up man.
It’s a solid pickup. He pitched amazing for the Cubs in 2021, but then fell apart for the White Sox. Phillies are just gambling that he can return to form a bit, and there’s no long term commitment here. If he’s terrible over the first few months, they can just DFA him.
A $10 million gamble for a relief pitcher? Not a chance. They will roll him out no matter what to get at least innings on that investment
@heedfrodo, hopefully it doesn’t come to that…However, Dombrowski proved last season with Gregorious/Familia the following:
Sometimes you gotta cut a man loose…..
…from Remember the Titans….
If he stinks he gets fed into the grinder during lopsided losses to spare the rest of the pen.
If he’s good then he contributes.
Either way, it improves the pen when somebody needs the innings on the arm.
“They will roll him out no matter what to get at least innings on that investment”
I disagree. Getting poor innings is not a good return on the investment. If he’s bad, he’ll get mop up duty. If he’s really bad, he’ll get DFA’ed. The $10 million they’re spending gambling on him returning to form is less than 4% of their payroll. They could DFA him and not think twice about it. Compare his deal to the one Rogers just got.
Have you watched him pitch lately? Not a solid pickup at all. He can’t throw consistent strikes and often falls behind in counts. He’s a walk and hit machine.
@senioreditor: Did you watch him pitch just one year ago for the Cubs? He was lights out. To repeat myself, they’re gambling that he’ll return to form and it only costs them a one year deal with no long term commitments. That’s a solid pickup. Rogers, for example, just got a higher AAV and three seasons.
That was 2 years ago that he was good for the Cubs and he’s been horrible for the past season and a half. Better to use a young guy or 2 and spent 10 million somewhere else. But you’ll learn the hard way.
Last season, Kimbrel’s ERA+ was 112 or 12% better than league average. His ERA was 3.75, which is better than the 3.86 ERA league average for relievers.
As you dig deeper you find that his percentage of strikes thrown was a little higher than his average for 2019-2021. His BB% was about his career average and better than his average for 2019-2021.
What was very high for him was his BABIP. It was 46 points higher than his career average and 50 points higher than his average from 2019-2021.
All in all, he is a very solid pickup.
How did he do for the LAD?!
Horrible. Lost his closer role a number of times and was left off the post season roster.
@Senioteditor The difference is, he’ll never have the closer role in Philly.
For the Dodgers, Kimbrel’s ERA+ was 112 or 12% better than league average. His ERA was 3.75, which is better than the 3.86 ERA league average for relievers. Not horrible as junior editor tries to claim.
Why? Kimbrel has been great for every team that doesn’t play in Chicago.
Assembling a pen has always been a DD weakness.
Back again? Can’t keep a good article down (aka, sloppy seconds)
Mets fans rejoice. This guy is cooked.
Good luck Philly
1 year 10 mil
Eh pocket change
He was rough to watch the last two years. I’m better he gets back on track this year in lower leverage innings to start. Should get a chance to fill in and close some games if he performs well early on. $10M is not a bad deal for him. Nice sign Phils.
Sexy stuff
Veteran presence….? They have a relatively young bull-pen…?
Not sure what type of clubhouse guy he is, but his on field demeanor is annoying…?
Great move by Phillies
Maybe they let him do the 9th inning thing and keep Alvarado/Dominguez in high leverage roles? Could be a bullpen with all 3 getting 10+ saves…..?
Kimbrel mostly failed as the set-up guy…….
Hope he pitches in the post-season
Buckle yer seatbelts.
Mitch Williams has entered the chat, wearing a Ricky Bottalico jersey…..
As long as we don’t use him as a closer, I like this signing
Ask CHW fans how well he worked out as a setup man.
He’s toast. Not too excited about this one, but the Philly crowd will get into mimicking his stance.
So sorry VPH, hope you guys don’t trade for Melancon to join Kimbrel. Fortunately for Philly fans, you guys can score a lot!
He won’t be our closer. He may work as a 6th inning guy. Not too confident, but I was terrified every time Robertson was out there last year.
He won’t be our closer. He may work as a 6th inning guy. Not too confident, but I was terrified every time Robertson was out there last year. It’s a similar option.
This posted twice somehow. Sorry. It wasn’t even that interesting the first time I said it.
It’s cool. I read it both times.
I just didn’t want to miss anything.
No problem. No problem.
The second time was definitely better than the first.
@DogDays2
LOL I did too.
Lol. I just assumed it was like one of those- Find The Difference games.
Goofus and Gallant?
Haha. We should start doing that.
Agreed. My heart stopped every time Robertson was called to the mound. Sometimes I just turned off the game and checked the score updates on my phone for the next 15 minutes. Kimbrel isn’t as nerve wracking to me. He might get a few scattered saves throughout the season but he won’t be their main closer.
Think the pitch clock will affect his pre pitch antics?
No. Look at his pitch tempo on StatCast
Nope.
The clock is 15 seconds to begin motion. So, in theory, you’d count beginning to stand up as part of the motion.
He gets a good 13 seconds to swing his arms like a chimp.
LOL – Cheetah
3.23 FIP and 96 mph average FB is far from toast.
I think calling Kimbrel toast is a little overstated. Kimbrel shouldnt excite anyone anymore but he’s still serviceable. His peripherals at least validate that
ERA: 3.75
FIP: 3.23
xFIP: 4.04
SIERRA: 3.44
xERA: 3.51
He looks like a decent 6th or 7th inning sort of guy.
I can’t watching him with that ridiculous wingspread stance. It just looks like a dumb affectation.
*I can’t stand watching…
Check YouTube for the Phils fans mocking it. Great stuff. If anything, this signing will give us more of that.
He could very well be the most mocked thing in Philadelphia since the 5 for 1 Von Hayes trade.
Hey Von was an all-star. Haha. Tradkng 5 for 1 is never a great idea, but really the only one of the 5 that made that trade regrettable was Julio Franco. Von did quite well in Philly, but it was impossible for him to live up to that hype.
I was joking around. I remember that trade well. Put a lot of pressure on Hayes.
In gradeschool, I was there on Picture Day at the Vet.
It was a thing they used to have where ropes were set-up and the entire team would slowly walk by for photos with the fans….No autographs and only a few poses, just the players walking from just past 1b to home plate while the fans took pictures……My pop was in the biz, so I was one of about 200 on the field….
Von Hayes got R O A S T E D by so many fans. Much love, he just took all of it in, without sarcastic replies….smiled and moved on…Not sure where he was born, but no way was it in Philly….average guy would have been swinging….
All true, but who were the four other than Julio Franco? Jay Baller, George Vukovich, Jerry Willard, and Manny Trio (who was toast after leaving the Phillies). And Julio Franco was a DH in waiting because of substandard defense at 2nd. He was an American League player, with no future as a Phillie. His legend grew as a 40 something year old pinch hitter, but that’s practically a whole lifetime later.
retired – JD Drew has entered the room.
Yeah forgot all about Drew. Phillies fans didn’t think much of that guy lol.
Holy smokes… Hopefully not for more than 2 million? His career has looked close to toast since 2019?
Before he was traded to the White Sox in 2021 he looked fantastic for the Cubs. 0.49 ERA in about 40 appearances. Fr the Dodgers last season he was at least decent with a 3.75 ERA. He is just not a setup guy.
Phillies cornering the market on burley bearded men apparently
Maybe they’ll have a drunken mob in the outfield who mimics his weird pre-pitch stance….Missed that stuff in Philly from the WS run years…
Somewhere the Wolfpack smiles…….
I’d say 6 mil one year.
10
More than I would pay. But I am guessing 5 million with incentives that could increase it another 3 to 4 million more. If it was me, he would just get a Spring Training Invite and no guarantee.
I thought they were trying to improve their bullpen?
Excellent move by PHI. The east is a beast!
Just hopefully he doesn’t pitch in high leverage spots, dude is a washed up hack
He’s essentially the David Robertson replacement. Both pitcher look like their in twilight of their career.
Well that’s one way to spend 10 mil…..
When ur a big market team you can spend. Best part is all these people he not worth 10mil. Who cares it’s not ur money lol
I think it’s a good signing for 1 year 10 million. He could easily go back to his 21 form. He could also end up being a below average pitcher just as well. It’s worth the upside gamble. Congratulations phills.
That’s bad, that’s really really bad. Maybe just to pitch in the 60 or so games they lose in 2023?
Kimbrel gets 1 year at $10m and Rogers gets 3 yrs at $33m? Nuts…and for the record I’m not a fan of Kimbrel but come on.
I don’t even like this deal, but this makes the Taylor Rogers deal look really bad.
Both of those deals make David Robertson look like a steal. I’m really surprised Kimbrel got the same amount as him.
David Robertson’s stats look better than his actual performance last year. I like Robertson a lot, but he ran into a lot of luck last year, and was heart attack city for the Phils. I don’t think Kimbrel will be much different, and I’d rather have Robertson I guess, but my point is they’re close.
These relievers are so volatile. Wouldn’t be surprised if Kimbrel is closer to his former self this year and ends up a great signing.
That would be the hope, bit I don’t think so. Either way, bullpen depth is nice.
Robertson had a 2.70 ERA but a 3.71 FIP. He was the recipient of either good luck or good defense and since we are talking about the Phillies, that means good luck.
Kimbrel had a 3.75 ERA and a 3.23 FIP. That means he was the victim of bad defense.
Of the two I want Kimbrel on my team. But Minassian didn’t pull the trigger.
I was hoping Phillies would sign Andrew Chafin. Not sure if he isn’t signed yet or what but he could help
At this point the Giants will have to overpay for any FA they get.
This will not age well.
It’s a 1 year contract lol.
Oh hell no
Can I still make fun of his pitching stance if he’s on my team?? Good signing. Low risk high reward. Maybe he’ll regain his form from the past.
Hell no
Trying to keep up with Steve Cohen!
Been did that we won the NL lol
Meh. Low-risk one-year deal for a guy with a 3.75 ERA in sixty innings last year. Phillies can always use some depth in the bullpen, and this deal won’t break the bank.
@Casey
Agreed, great take.
Just hope he doesn’t pitch in high leverage innings
@damascusj
I hear you, but as a Mets fan I expected nothing from Ottavino last season and was pleasently surprised when he turned into the full time set up man for Diaz. It can happen, DD takes calculated risks. I’ve learned in my over 30 years of baseball fandom that when you have an executive like DD trust is the only option. Phillies can be doing way worse. Shout out to Middleton, I was jealous till Cohen took over.
Valid point. In Philly, we rarely are able to find a level of trust in the overall baseball competence of the front office / ownership group. Too many examples to the contrary for far too great a part of their existence. Gilllick? Yeah, I trusted him for the most part. DD as well…they earned it over the course of long careers.
For us as fans, we are always operating on far less information than they are so we are just speculating for the most part, but when you see a Klentak in charge, or an Ed Wade keeping the seat warm trust is a dirty word. Right now, seeing how Middleton and DD are working together this is a joyous time, even as the results are always going to be up in the air.
@Carver
Very well said!!
Ed Wade pretty much drafted the WS team. He may not have been the guy to get them over the edge but he and Klentak are light years apart.
I understand your point CP and it has merit. And it would take me far too long to argue it properly, however as a keen observer of the organization for many decades and a long-time player as well I place Wade more in the accidentally drafted a few key players while doing an incredibly pedestrian job otherwise category. Not a hater – he is a very nice guy that was a professional, but he was also a real symptom of the old Philies Way ownership that desired a front man rather than hiring the best available. Paul Owens? Top notch. Gillick and DD for sure. Unfortunately it has mostly been about our rather conservative Main Line ownership for too long, and I am thrilled to see that Middleton learned a tough lesson when he took control and remedied things by bringing in a real POBO.
Those few key players were Hamels, Howard, Utley, and Burrell. He Rule 5’d Victorino and signed Ruiz as an amateur. Those names alone are 2/3 of the game 1 lineup in the 2008 WS.
He also drafted Madson, Myers, Happ, Kendrick, and Byrd. I call that pretty successful. Gillick added the pieces (Werth, Feliz, Lidge) that made the ‘08 team a winner but the core was pretty much all Wade.
Compared that to Klentak, only Bohm and Stott are really left. Spencer Howard, Haseley, and Moniak are gone and none are solid players (though they are young enough to still figure things out). Yes, Klentak had half as many drafts but the Phils were either bad at evaluating talent or developing it under his reign. Perhaps both.
Churchill’s Pancakes;
What confused me when I first read it was:
“Ed Wade pretty much drafted the WS team.”
I thought you were talking about the 2022 WS team.
There have been posts on here crediting Klentak and the other kid that worked with him for building the 2022 WS team, and saying all DD did was sign some free agents.
In fact, that “rebuild” was an epic failure, which I was on here writing about 4 years ago while the national baseball media was trumpeting them as the next great team. The drafts were mostly bad. Gabe Kapler was an awful manager. They developed few players. And having Rhys Hoskins play LF was one of the most bizarre moves made in MLB this century.
As for Ed Wade – I read an interesting interview with Terry Francona years ago when he first came to Cleveland. He talked about his first job managing which was with the Phillies. He said he was awful, yet owner David Montgomery and GM Ed Wade believed in him enough to keep him around for 4 years. He thanked them for what they’d done for him and the opportunity they’d given him while he was learning by making mistakes.
Of course Terry broke the Red Sox “curse”, and – more than anyone else – has influenced the Cleveland baseball franchise to be one of the best and classiest franchises in MLB. Most now recognize him as the best manager in MLB, and a surefire Hall of Famer after he retires.
Wade isn’t without fault and I’m far from a fanboy but I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves by most of us.
I loved Francona as the Phils skipper. Again, not without fault, but I liked the guy. He truly blossomed after Philadelphia though.
The Klentak/Kapler era wasn’t without some success but not through the draft. They had 3 top 10 picks (1-1, 1-3, and 1-8) in 4 years. Only one of those guys is in the organization and it’s not like we’re a decade removed from his reign. That’s a lot of missing on picks no team can afford to miss on.
CP – Again, I understand the points, and in retrospect Wade has been somewhat rejuvenated and his reputation has been recast in a more positive manner over the years as a result of the WFC under Gillick. Some of it I agree with as well. He certainly was not an idiot or an incompetent, even though we all thought of him as something of a miscast version of a GM during his tenure.
Mike Arbuckle gets a lot of the system credit for drafting and development. And they did reasonably well…and got lucky. In a time where the overall system didn’t produce as well as it should, they had some very nice wins. The Hamels pick was awesome, both with foresight at the time and after seeing his career…it was a very risky choice at that moment. Utley was a smart pick…with Howard I really think that they just got luck. Burrell…a good result from a dumb choice the year before with the guy that would not sign with us. And so on.
Again, it was all part and parcel with that Phillies Way approach, and they had an organization that wasn’t really good but also was not really bad as it did have a decent amount of baseball lifers with good contacts. Giles was basically in charge, and Wade was his chosen (and controllable) face for baseball ops. The ownership had their hands in more than they should and Ed Wade knew how to keep his job by skirting that line. In essence, the real flaw was in ownership…and that has been an overriding theme for decades with the Phils.
So – under the circumstances, it turns out that Wade did fairly well, even as he was never fully equipped to be a true head of baseball ops. The accountant type in charge with a love for the game and just enough real baseball folks in the organization to find their way through that down time and full rebuild to come out with a good enough talent base to lead to the Gillick era. Wade was merely a product of the times and the circumstances with Phillies ownership, however the reality is that no other organization would have hired someone like him given his resume and experience level other than the Phils. They loved to stay in-house and keep things in the family.
Low risk now wait til the season starts
Nooooooo! Texas needed him.
Texas won’t even sniff the playoffs lol
Yes. They will just blow right through all their playoff opponents. 77-85 Pythagorean W-L and more to come now… hating other teams means you have little to root for
Not a bad gamble by the Phil’s. Salary isn’t bad considering what others are getting. He is the replacement for Robertson.
Handled properly, Kimbrel can help.
Congrats Phillies fans, in no way should this signing be looked at in a negative way. He either gets back to himself and its a steal or he doesn’t and its only a 1 year deal. Haters do what they live for, to hate. Let them hate. If my team just went to the World Series I wouldn’t care what anybody says, Dombrowski is a good one.
Sux
He may no longer be elite but he’s still a serviceable relief option. Not following all the hate for this 1yr deal
I think a lot of people may be thinking the Phillies plan to use him as a closer, but that’s definitely not the case.
Kimbrel is behind Dominguez and Alvarado for sure. He’s got experience so they’ll probably want him in some leverage and I would guess he’s going to pitch in like the 7th unless Bellatti looks way better in the spring.
I also like Brogdon and Strahm over Kimbrel. Phillies don’t necessarily have an untouchable closer, but they quietly have some depth in that pen.
Better than just serviceable. 3.23 FIP means he did his part of the job well last season and in 2021 he was incredible as the closer for the Cubs.. He had a league leading 0.49 ERA in 39 appearances before the White Sox tried to turn him into a setup man after that trade.
Wiping the beer I just spit out from my screen…..
If you enjoy watching a drunken baby walk a tightrope, you’re gonna love this guy.
Lol. Yes. Phillies bullpen has been like that every year except 2008.
Von: if the Phillies bullpen has been a drunken baby walking a tightrope then what would we call the Marlins bullpen!?
Holy mackrel. Sorry I’m FINished with fish puns. I swear I didn’t do it on porpoise.
Lmao well done
Bridge to Lidge it is not
Keeping up with the Cohen’s, should be a new Broadway play. Like Stone in Stone cold, D.D going tit for tat with Cohen. Very interesting, an not at all stupid.
Phillies gonna give the Mets a run for their money. I could see either team winning that division.
As we seen who cares who wins the division. It’s about getting in the playoffs
Keeping up with the Cohen’s, should be a new Broadway play. Like Stone in Stone cold, D.D going blank for blank with Cohen. Very interesting, an not at all stupid.
He’ll pitch the 8th, give up a couple homers and there goes your summer.
Great signing. Phillies have had a great offseason.
Evan Phillips permanent Dodgers Closer?
Doubt the Dodgers give Phillips the closer spot. They like “Bazooka”, although Phillips should be the guy.
Phillips has more than earned it
Generally not a Kimbrel fan, and he has been mostly awful for quite a while now, with occasional bouts of being unhittable. That being said, there is no such thing as a bad one year deal in baseball anymore, and DD knows him well so one has to assume that he is convinced that he can add something in a setup role along with the rest.
This is really not that much different than the yearly bullpen deals that the Phils seem to love, and that rarely work wonders and mostly not well at all. Familia / Hand / Knebel / DRob / Tommy Hunter / Neshek….a fairly wobbly track record. And yet everyone needs to take their shot at a few of these arms. This year we try Strahm and Kimbrel. I will place most of my hopes on those that are coming back, along with some development internally.
Wouldn’t mind taking a shot at Knebel again either.
At an injury rehab price, why not? If healthy, he will probably have a decent year this season. I fully expect them to bring in a few late additions at a nominal cost as depth moves closer to ST.
Holy ew Batman.
Not a bad gamble for the Phillies. He’s been up and down for a few years now, but if the good Kimbrel shows up, it’s definitely worth $10 million and if not, it’s only a 1 year deal.
Sadly, Kimbrel would have been the best choice for the Marlins Closer.
We couldn’t do 1 year at $10 million?
Has anyone seen Kim Ng? I it easier to find Elvis, Tupac and bigfoot performing a concert on an alien spaceship than it is seeing Ng do a transcation?
I saw all three of them with the Lochness Monster at the World Cup
@H E Pennypacker
So you saw the Lock Ness Monster, Tupac, Elvis and bigfoot at the World Cup? And no Kim Ng sighting? No surprise there. I wonder what paparazzi will get paid for a picture of Kim Ng making a transaction. They have plenty pictures of her making self-promotion appearances and interviews. But a picture of her doing her job as Marlins GM is a rare one.
I feel for you, MFB. So much young talent. I thought after 2020 the Marlins would make a push. Now the division just went bonkers and the Marlins seem way behind. I also wanted the Phillies to get Ng…boy am I glad they didn’t.
@VonPurpleHayes
You’re lucky. You have the GM I wished the Marlins brought back. You guys got a Hall of Fame GM and we got the cool story that is losing steam with every single move that Kim Ng doesn’t do.
Both Dombrowski and Ng have really showed what they’re made of from this year’s trade deadline on.
MarlinsFanBase;
I doubt Mr. Kimbrel would have gone to the Marlins for that money or even a few million more. The man has made a lot of money in his career.
This is not rotisserie baseball. FA’s can go where they want to.
If you were an experienced ML player on the downside of his career – no matter the position – would you take an offer from the Phillies or the Marlins in the 2022-23 offseason?
@MarlinsFanBase
I hear your frustration, especially living in Florida and knowing Miami can afford to do better. I’ve been trying to figure out the whole Derek Jeter stepping down thing wondering what happened. Time always tells, looking like Jeter was right. Sux, Miami fans deserve better.
@Cohens_Wallet
Yes, when Jeter stepped down, I was puzzled. then the news broke about him leaving because he wanted Castellanos, which I then bashed him because I’ve felt that the Marlins biggest need and most immediate impacting move would be for a Closer that can hold all the late-inning leads that our bullpen has blown over the last two seasons. So, to me the thought of leaving over Castellanos was plain stupid. However, now that we see practically zero activity, even when nearly all of us informed Marlins fans wanted her to move veteran pieces at the trade deadline, and she didn’t, we have now come to a point of wondering what’s going on behind the scenes. It seems that the trade deadline failure of Kim Ng was the starting point of questioning her competence after having mixed reviews before that point. Now her inactivity has been so bad that the calls for her firing have started, and Bruce Sherman is being bashed as well. Now the part of Sherman being bashed, begs to have a reversal of thought for those of us that bashed Jeter for his departure. Is it only Kim Ng’s failure? Is the failure also the product of Bruce Sherman not wanting to spend?
This ain’t going well. I can’t remember a time when we as Marlins fans questioned our organization this badly. And this is coming after we had the con artist John Henry, the disaster Jeffry Loria and his midget lucky sperm Dave Samson, and the legendary disaster GM in the master of self-preservation, Mike “Yes Man” Hill. I never thought anyone could do worse in unison than Loria, his lucky sperm midget, and “Yes Man” Hill, but Sherman and Ng are making a run for that level of ineptitude. I hope it’s not Sherman and that a removal of Ng will get us headed in the right direction…or someone gets Ng to focus on the team instead of her interviews.
I don’t follow this closely, but I thought that the word was that Jeter stepped down mostly due to Sherman not living up to his agreement on spending. They had a plan, and Sherman altered his approach as the financial realities became apparent. Hearsay, as Jeter has always been rather tight-lipped and loathe to air dirty laundry.
Jeter openly commented in his resignation was that it was because Sherman’s financial commitment changed. However, people behind the scenes that knew the Marlins situation said something about Sherman and the other investors were dissatisfied with Jeter and were probably looking to remove him from his role. Then there were people close to Jeter’s camp that said his departure was specifically due to him wanting to sign Castellanos as a starting point to other signings.
Time will tell where most of the truth lies.
Personally, I think the truth is in there in all of the camps.
They’ve done dumb-questionable things for the last 1m5 years, far earlier than just this last year
The castellanos thing was stupid, but it was just as bad doing what they did afterwards
2.5 years* lol
But it really also stems from the trash moves they made when ownership first took over, with the Yelich, Stanton, and Realmuto moves, as well as others that weren’t moved at the time, and since
It’s something that has been a Marlins thing for sooo long. They lack ability to get value, woth garbage asset management
Damn brother, I understand you 100%. Such a great city to thrive in but baseball can’t seem to get it right. All we can do is stick through and hope our respective teams get it right before we die. I don’t mean to make it such a big deal but for many of us there’s alot of time and money invested into something we can’t control. But we still believe. Hats off to you for being so loyal, hopefully before it’s all over for us we all get a chance to see our teams thrive the way they should.
Merry Christmas my baseball brotha.
MarlinsFanBase;
As you’re doing your song-and-dance understand that the reason Dave Samson’s last name is Samson is because his father was named Samson….not Loria.
As for John Henry – no doubt that was all set-up by MLB before the Expos moved out of Montreal. Henry had been a minority owner of the Yankees. The Commissioner and other owners knew him. Miami was a pit stop for him until the Red Sox could be sold. His job was not to rock the boat. The Commissioner at the time saw the Red Sox – in his words – as: “one of MLB’s jeweled franchises”. Before Mr. Henry took over the Red Sox even George Steinbrenner commented on how they couldn’t generate anywhere near the revenue they should have been generating. Mr. Henry did it and marketed the franchise as the primary one in MLB along with the Yankees, which the national media – sports and otherwise – picked up on. It was all orchestrated.
Now the Miami franchise is being used for woman to break into major jobs for a MLB franchise. I saw a video of an interview with the “woman” that is heading something like the Marlins “Communication Department”. She looked, sounded, and comported herself as someone a year out of college. I was stunned. 30 years ago I was working with women in high managerial positions that were qualified, knowledgeable and experienced. I can’t believe that girl got the position she’s in.
John Heney always used molto claim lack if money when talking about stadiums and players, and then buys the Red Sox…
Have you seen the NG interviews/appearances? Everything she says sounds like its 5th party information she knows nothing about
I feel for Marlins fans. It is going to take years to recover from the mess that Jeter and Denbo made of that team.
Jeter didn’t step down, he was forced out along with Denbo, Mattingly, and several others that came from the Yankees.
@outinleftfield
Exactly what you state here is tied into some of the issues that were mentioned from people that were behind the scenes with the Marlins who stated the dissatisfaction of Sherman and the other investors.
We’ll see what happens. No matter what, Ng isn’t getting the job done, but yes, there was some questionable stuff with Jeter and Denbo. But dear goodness, Ng needs to do something to show that they were the only problems…not part of a bigger problem which is what it’s looking like at the moment when there is nothing going on from what is promised to Marlins fans.
The big thing that continues to bother me, b/c all of the other stuff are things that have gone on for a long time, and I accepted that reality a long time ago, but literally the first thing she said she was going to do, and she emphasized it, was address the abhorrent bullpen situation…and all she has done in these 3 years is loss the only useful pieces for nothing, and allow it to be somehow even worse, while they’ve lost countless 1-2 run games the last 2 years, which will likely continue
Even options within the organization that never got opportunities. Maybe we’ll see a couple of guys get those shots this year
@fornerlyz
That bothers me too about your first goal was the bullpen, but then every guy she brought in failed in some capacity. Then she seems to stick with just giving the opportunities to close games to the veteran MRs who are career MRs. She doesn’t bring a legit Closer in and doesn’t want to give one of the young arms a chance to closer. – like say Jordan Yammamoto, Elieser Hernandez, etc. who are gone, and also the guys that are still here who may be gone soon. Her plan seems to be to give Tanner Scott, Yimi Garcia, Anthony Bass, and now Dylan Floro all the opportunities to be the Closer blowing lead after lead after lead, but don’t give a chance to one of the younger guys that clearly are not going to win a starting role. Just let the younger arms go for nothing or very little and hold onto the veteran MRs that can blow any size lead.
It’s like she has a bad combination of stupid decision combined with being stubborn to stick to stick to her stupidity. Best example is the Brian Anderson and Garrett Cooper situations. We all remember that Ng came in and was not convinced about Anderson being a solid player. Granted, he got injured the last two years, but he is a good player to most who see him, but not to Ng who clearly sees him as garbage. She non-tenders him, which is understandable until you see that she kept Garrett Cooper. Obviously many of us fans feel that it’s long overdue to move on from Cooper because he isn’t a stud and he’s never healthy, Even Mattingly said he wasn’t a starting caliber player a couple of years ago, until Ng arrives. Now, not only Cooper is still on the roster long after he should’ve been traded and at least a couple of seasons he should’ve been non-tendered, but the Marlins are waiting for him to be healthy next year…for the…what is it now…6th straight season…when he’s well into being on the wrong side of 30. And Cooper has job security like a star player does, which is insane. It makes me ask the question about Cooper…What in the name of Tom Koehler do the Marlins see in Cooper!?!?!?
No hope for 2023. We’re already mathematically eliminated because there is no way our bullpen will hold enough leads to compete this season. The Marlins hopes will be done by mid-May when our bullpen has already blown 8 games that we led into the 8th or 9th innings.
I know its been said before, but it bears repeating, Ng never made any decisions when Jeter and Denbo were with the Marlins.
Unless they were traded for at the deadline, none of the players on the field this season were her additions. Jeter traded for Stallings. Jeter signed Garcia. Even the one guy that was signed after the lockout ended was not her pick. Jeter said that he wanted Soler and the Marlins completed the negotiations Jeter started in November.
The Ng tenure really starts this offseason. Next year we can start to judge her performance as a GM.
I disagree on Cooper. He has had several freak injuries, but is a more than useful bat when healthy, and I personally think he could play in the corner OF/1b. That being said, its arguable he should have been moved, although I think the other guys were more important to move than him at those times, and then he was unfortunately injured when it actually did make more sense to move him
I wanted to move Elieser for bullpen help last offseason, when he had good value. People dont realize I’m not complaining about not spending. I’m complaining about poor decision making
Just give him a haircut, as he was actually dominant before his hair grew out.
The only city he has ever struggled in is Chicago. The guy just doesn’t like that town.
Me either, but I have to live here…..Only 30 months left…
…and NO am not incarcerated…Daughter will graduate from HS then…
Thoughts and prayers
Chicago is a terrific town, when it isn’t freezing cold. Of course, what is the old line…”the coldest that I have ever been was a July in Chicago”.
That would be San Francisco. Mark Twain said that.
Carver Andrews;
Chicago is as warm in the summer as any midwestern area.
What you’re thinking of is a quote that’s attributed to Mark Twain which he never actually wrote:
“The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”
There are far worse places to live than Chicago.
H.E. am sure you are correct…..bless you goodsir….
But am a surfer and my locations over the years have been beach communities and Chicago offers no such thing. A sad, but happy divorce has lead me here….
Once my daughter heads to college, my stay here will be naught but a hazy memory….
Every time he gets into that ridiculous Cacaw position I have to laugh, like what the flock dude ?
and funny enough it was the Phils fans behind home plate that used to mimic-mock the hell out of him, all those times we saw him as a Brave
I wouldn’t want him as a closer. Can he pitch well anywhere besides closer? 10 million is too much for non closer or setup for him. I just prefer the quantity leading to quality approach.
What an overpay…..
Welcome to 2022-2023
Kimbrel and Robertson are getting paid the same amount. Would rather of had Kimbrel over Robertson on the Mets
It’s funny that many would say the complete opposite. I don’t really trust either at this point.
I’m more for Kimbrel over Robertson as a Phils fan. I know DR’s numbers weren’t horrible, but man when he got summoned into the game I instinctively threw up my hands in the “Oh F%$*’ gesture. Couldn’t help it–just knew that he wasn’t the dude for the spot.
Wanna trade?
Honestly a coin flip on who will have the better year. I’d imagine Robertson simply because of Citifield.
He has to close to be effective. I don’t trust him in that role. Lotsa luck!
Umm. Did DD check the sell-by date before adding that particular package to his shopping cart?
Was hoping that he would end up in Anaheim as a setup man.
I don’t have high hopes for this one but a one-year flier might be worth a shot.
I bet the Dodgers made no attempt to resign him. Couldn’t wait to see him leave.
Phillies fans will be waiting for him in the parking lot after games by mid May. I’m not sure he could’ve landed in a worse home ballpark.
Marlins apparently sitting this season out…
Way past his prime
Not a bad option as a bullpen guy considering how he won’t be the closer.
He sucks when he’s not the closer
He wasn’t great when he was the closer either, so I think it’s just a matter of what we remember at the time. Makes no sense why he would do worse in less pressured situations.
Well, at least as a Giants fan, I can laugh at another team for a minute
Phillies fans better stock up on Tums.
We’re only 2 years removed from the worst bullpen in the history of baseball. Most of us still have Tums.
I had the Costco jug-o-Tums but David Robertson entering games made me burn through 3/4 of it.
His World Series game 1 outing was the most nerve wracking inning I can remember.
You ain’t seen nothing yet.
Second time Dombrowski has acquired Kimbrel. He’s not the Pitcher he was but you never know, maybe he’ll thrive in Philly
Love it.
Merry Christmas to me! And all Phillies fans! Double D & John Middleton are like God’s gift to Phillies fans for years of “more frugal owners/CEO’s) in ownership,(aside from David Montgomery) & bad/less than stellar GM’s (aside from The Great Pat Gillick).I have been “playing GM” of the Phillies since I was 10, maybe even earlier. Very rarely did the team sign FA”s or make trades for players that I wanted, but this year I wanted 1) Trea Turner 2) SP depth #1 on my list was Taijuan Walker- I also wanted Zach Eflin back, but he received a large deal- happy for him). I’d also like to see Cole Hamels receive a low risk deal w/ incentives for him). 3) Bullpen #1) Craig Kimbrel and #2) best LH on the market (Strahm fits the bill there). Priority list complete!
Still probably a third place team by all accounts despite the $400m spent this year…
I’ve got the Phillies winning the division, Mets in second, Braves in a distant 3rd and out of the WC.
Kimbrel’s a lesson.
HOF closer until he turned 31, and now he’s just another iffy setup guy with upside. Peak ended at 26, he had one more peak year at 29, was fine at 30, then crashed and immolated.
Didn’t he start to lose it when he was tipping off pitches? I assume it’s more than just that now.
It’s not my money. Great add to any team, I’d take him. On my roster.
Too bad you don’t have a roster. I’d enjoy watching it get destroyed nightly. I’m astonished you are that confident about Kimbrel!
The hawk is back in action!
The Guardians extension for Clase looks really, really good. People can say what they want about the organization, but if they say they are not well-run, they are incorrect.
Yikes. As a Dodgers fan that watched every inning he pitched last season, I wouldn’t have wanted Kimbrel back on our roster for the league minimum — let alone $10m. Good luck!
Seriously. Every single day I wake up in a cold sweat and run to the computer to make sure Friedman didn’t do something stupid and bring Kimbrel back
DFA’d by July?
May
I Trust in Dave Dombrowski to build a World Series Winning Team.
Most of Dombrowski’s moves seem to pan out in a positive manner.
Maybe the Phillies coaches and development people see some adjustments that Kimbrell can make that make him even better?!
Only time will tell.
That’s a 34 year old arm you’re talking about, not 24, with a ton of miles on it. He’s been leaking oil for the past couple of years…hence why the Dodgers left him off of the post season playoff roster. There aren’t any coaches out there to cure that.
Not happening, SportsFan0000. But good luck.
Kimbrel will be a detriment to the Philly bullpen, just as he was with the White Sox… just as he was with the Dodgers.
I will say he had a great half-a-season in LA before falling apart.. So I wouldn’t call him a detriment, but I do agree with your larger point. this is a gamble I don’t expect to pay off. Very similar to the Familia move from 2022.
THANK YOU PHILLIES!!!!!! Sincerely,
– every single traumatized Dodger fan
Can’t wait to mimic the guy regardless of how good/bad he is. LOL!
As a dodger fan, all I can say is ‘good luck with that.’
Great choice Phills!
Great signing!
Dombrowski is no slouch. Gotta admire him.