FEBRUARY 10: The Associated Press reports the specific financial breakdown. Bichette receives a $3.25MM signing bonus and a $2.85MM salary for the upcoming season, bringing his 2023 payout to $6.1MM. He’ll make $11MM in 2024 and $16.5MM in ’25. If Bichette wins an MVP in either of the first two seasons, his salary would escalate by $2.25MM for any future seasons. Future salaries would escalate by $1.25MM for a second or third place finish and by $250K for a fourth or fifth place tally.
FEBRUARY 9: The Blue Jays announced Thursday evening that star shortstop Bo Bichette has signed a three-year contract to buy out his remaining seasons of arbitration eligibility. The deal will not affect the team’s window of club control by delaying his path to free agency. Bichette, a Vayner Sports client, will reportedly be guaranteed $33.6MM over the three seasons with escalators that could eventually bring the total to $40.65MM.
Bichette debuted in the second half of the 2019 campaign and has spent the past three years as Toronto’s everyday shortstop. He has produced against big league pitching from day one, breaking into the majors with a .311/.358/.571 showing through 46 games as a rookie. Bichette hasn’t quite maintained that kind of pace over a full season but has posted well above-average offensive marks in every year of his career.
He reached arbitration for the first time this winter after surpassing the three-year service threshold during the summer. Bichette was slated to carry a career .297/.340/.491 line with 69 home runs, 239 runs batted in and 46 stolen bases through 393 MLB games into that process. The 2022 campaign was right in line with his career marks, as he hit .290/.333/.469 with 24 longballs, 93 RBI and 13 steals (albeit in 21 attempts). He has led the American League in hits in each of the past two seasons and finished in the top 15 in AL MVP balloting in both years.
Financial terms of the contract remain unreported. Bichette’s camp had filed for a $7.5MM salary last month, with the Jays countering at $5MM. The $2.5MM gap tied that between the Astros and outfielder Kyle Tucker — who are themselves discussing a potential multi-year deal — for the largest discrepancy between a team and player this offseason. That’s a moot point now, as the three-year pact overrides that and ensures the Jays and Bichette won’t go to an arbitration hearing at any time.
Bichette turns 25 next month and is still slated to hit free agency after the 2025 season — when he’ll be entering his age-28 campaign. It’s unclear whether the sides plan to engage in discussions on a more significant long-term pact that would alter the Jays’ window of club control this spring. Toronto brass has predictably spoken of a desire to explore such arrangements with their top young players (generally assumed to be Bichette, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Alek Manoah) but isn’t facing pressing urgency to do so. Guerrero is also arbitration-eligible through 2025, while Manoah won’t reach arbitration until next offseason as a likely Super Two qualifier and isn’t going to hit free agency until after the 2027 campaign.
The Jays have now completed their arbitration work for the offseason. Bichette was the only of their 12 eligible players who didn’t agree to a deal prior to last month’s deadline for exchanging figures.
Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet first reported the Jays and Bichette had agreed to a multi-year deal to avoid arbitration and that a three-year pact had been under consideration. Joel Sherman of the New York Post confirmed the sides were in agreement on a three-year deal. Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic reported the guarantee and potential maximum value.
I can see a 3y deal happening, with a Player Option maybeeee??
Why? Makes little sense to be down on yourself 3 years from now
He can decline it, or choose to go into FA a year later. He’ll still be under 30 and get his choice of either FA class. =)
Yes, but it’s without precedence (that I’m aware of). Usually, extensions have team or mutual options. The only player options I have seen have been in free agency.
It would be extremely unusual, and I don’t know the current outlook of the ’25 or ’26 FA class, but again, he would have his preference.
I know it’s not a tit-for-tat comparison, but Machado’s opt-out after ’23 looks like a genius maneuver when you take into account that he read the tea leaves and only saw Ohtani as the lone big get.
Another factor that could have played is maybe Bo would have wanted to stay one more year, as the B-Jays are a very exciting team with an excellent core. Who knows, it’s all a moot point now as we can see the final deal is only 3 years. If I was Bo, his Agent or even the POBO I would have asked/offered it. Win/win deal as is, I believe there’s something to be said for avoiding Arb with your dogs. Cheers deGrom!
I wrote back but my comment is “awaiting moderation”?? Anyway, I’ll hit you back tomorrow if my comment never shows. Aloha deGrom!
You see year-5 players sign to 2-year extensions to get thru the end of their control years rather frequently. 3-year deals thru the end of the arb years is less frequent, but your arb salaries is almost a science at this point.
OTOH, if the club is going to take the health risk, then the player has to take a little less, or offer up one of their free agency years.
Well, the original reply is still in moderation, so let’s try this again…
It would be extremely unusual, and I don’t know the current outlook of the ’25 or ’26 FA class, but again, he would have his preference.
I know it’s not a perfect comparison, but Machado’s opt-out after ’23 looks like a genius maneuver when you take into account that he read the tea leaves and only saw Ohtani as the lone big get.
Another factor that could have played is maybe Bo would have wanted to stay one more year, as the Blue Jays are a very exciting team with an excellent core. Who knows, it’s all a moot point now as we can see the final deal is only 3 years. If I was Bo, his Agent or even the POBO I would have asked/offered it. Win/win deal as is. I believe there’s something to be said for avoiding Arb with your dogs.
Cheers deGrom!
“Dogs” probably got censored.
Eh, I said “t¡t-for-tat comparison” instead of “perfect comp…” in paragraph 2. Idk haha
Where is that Wow guy? I need to know if this is Wow news or not…
Woooow News!
I believe a bunch of MLBTR commenters here had an intervention. Some think it will work, but I’m dubious.
Please don’t encourage him.
Asking about Wow guy has become the new Wow.
Well, how am I to know if this is Wow news without his WOW?
Happy to see this happen. Could have gotten ugly fast and if repeated for 3 years would make it harder to sign Bo long term. Good for both sides!
If anything it’s worse cause now they’re less likely to extend him long term if they don’t have to worry about arbitration.
They are also more likely to extend him from the standpoint they don’t have to piss him off with regular annual arb disputes.
I view it differently, with this agreement having virtually no impact on extending him at all. I think with the way in which annual salaries can increase at the top, in conjunction with the already rising arb increases, teams don’t want to risk arb costs outside of their control (especially if he has two or three great seasons during his peak arb years).
So, these teams can negotiate costs now and have those figures specifically budgeted for several years out. That way, all costs are within their control and planning (because they agreed to them ahead of time).
I think the Jays don’t want to upset Bichette further and come to happy medium avoiding a very possible future arb hearing(s).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/sports/bluejays/opinion/2023/01/14/why-contract-hardball-is-a-bad-sign-for-bo-bichettes-future-with-the-blue-jays.html
@Clip, I agree. This won’t prevent a longer-term deal being worked out, and it won’t make Bichette any more likely to sign a deal with the Jays.
My guess is he’s headed for free agency. He’ll be an impact middle infielder and only 28 when he’ll be a free agent. He comes from a baseball family and only knows wealth. He’ll have already made millions himself, starting with a seven-figure signing bonus. This is not a Jeff McNeill situation, meaning a player looking for his first big payday. Bichette is confident, he’s successful, and because he’s from a baseball family, he knows the value of the union and pushing salaries higher. The Jays would have to blow him out of the water with an offer. He’s going to market.
In the meantime, I always love the over the top stat-nerdiness when it rumbles into motion. Baseball is not a video game, or a fantasy baseball league.
Analytics should be used to REFINE and clarify our understanding of how to approach the game. While it is true that batting average, pitcher wins, RBI’s and the like are not the bellwethers of value than once thought, the pontification that surrounds the metrics only folks is always laughable. Batting average, wins, RBI’s and their ilk DO matter…total bases matter…OBP matters and so on.
I like the newer metrics, as they are useful and illuminating – while hardly a complete picture. What I don’t like are so many of the chuckleheaded commentaries from those that have no idea what it is really like to evaluate a player other than looking up a couple of details in Fangraphs.
Spot on. The crusade against “hits” really baffles me.
One of the key terms of the deal…Bo has to stop using his father as his defensive coach.
“Batting average, wins, RBI’s and their ilk DO matter…total bases matter…OBP matters and so on.”
Well, 1 out of 5 is not bad. Although it is a bad batting average.
The only thing on your list that teams look at consistently is OBP. That would mean that other than OBP, they don’t matter all that much. A batting average of .200 might be cause for alarm, but it you have a .360 OBP and a .500 slg you will probably still have a MLB job.
You know, Clip, if I were the Jays, I would have wanted at least one of his FA years included in the extension. Otherwise, sure, it means they don’t have to file or trial, and it gives them some cost certainty. But like you said, it doesn’t have any impact on if he stays or goes.
True, but that .200 ave makes that OBP and SLG much less reliable going forward. If its not a hit, its definitely not for extra bases. Very hard to have an extra base out (unless bad baserunning).
Good for him, if he gets injured or significantly declines in production he’s still scheduled raises. Not so great for the team as far as I can tell, A’s did this a lot and it was never the precursor to negotiate a free agent deal, the justification was always “cost certainty” for future plans… whatever that means.
Cost certainty for a team like the A’s would b GM knowing they will b within their limited budget. For larger payroll teams cost certainty is huge for luxury tax purposes. Look at BOS who appear to b just a few million over threshold this season or Dodgers who have let quite a few players walk. Dodgers having a more solid plan and depth look likely to still contend. BOS on other hand looks to b in worse shape and unlike Dodgers might not reset their cap hit.
Boston is an about 12 million under right now. LA is roughly 5 million over.
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/
His dad led the NL twice in hits meanwhile he has led the AL twice in hits.
But, this isn’t ancient Rome. We don’t value people based on how many hits they managed to get.
I like hits
I like something that rhymes with hits.
All things considered, as a baseball player, when batting, getting a hit is preferable to not getting a hit. So more of those means less of other things. Hits are good.
Hits are good, just some hits are better hits than other hits
@tstats I agree. And most hits are better than walks.
In 1999 his old man had 34 homers 177 hits and a 133 RBI’s with a -2.1 WAR. Ancient Rome is right.
Hits and homeruns are stupid, but so is defensive WAR I’d say. I also disagree with downplaying homeruns.
*I meant hits and RBIs
The most important stat for hitters is runs batted in. Runs are what gives you wins. For pitchers, they can have a high ERA or walk a lot of hitters, but all that matters is the number of wins they have. Wins gets you wins.
I thought it was cool more for a comparison of how things have changed. In today’s games you would have to be playing the outfield with a blindfold on to get your WAR to that point, with those counting stats. I know RBI”s are a matter of luck and place in the order all else being equal,hello Joe Carter.
It’s a team game. You’re calling out team stats. Team results are the most important thing, but it’s not very useful for measuring on individual players on a 26 man roster.
RBIs heavily reflect how well your teammates get on base and into scoring position, and your position in the lineup. A leadoff hitter by your definition is not a very important position because they don’t get a ton of RBIs…they’re using the guy crossing the plate.. HR are the only individual earned RBIs.
ERA is itself contains a non-trivial amount of team effort behind you, or else what are those other 7 guys and the catcher doing??? Wins for an individual is the most hilariously terrible stat in the world for a team game.
You yourself give half the explanation on that one.. “For pitchers, they can have a high ERA or walk a lot of hitters”. And their offense bails them out.
He had 17 outfield assists to 13 errors that year. It’s a quite low fielding percentage, but assists have to count for more than put outside for an outfielder. I’d say more assists than errors is probably good, though obviously fielding percentage and range do matter as well.
RBIs and wins are the most important stats? Must be parody
@avenger65
Wins are 100% not the most important stat for a pitcher. Do you know how many times I watched Roy Halladay take a loss in a 2-1 or a 1-0 game b/c we couldn’t score two or three runs? It was heartbreaking.
Like Tassix is saying a stat is only a number unless put into proper context. More important for offense than for defense, as a catch is catch but a hit is never just a hit until you put it into the context.in which it happened..
Actually a catch is not just a catch no more then a hit is a hit. Context is required for both. Look no further then the missed catch in Game 2 Sea-TO last fall. If that catch had been made the Jays likely win that game, force Game 3 and anything could happen after that.
Donkey Bichette had one of the worst defensive seasons in history in 1999. -34 DRS in LF. The next worst that year was Matt Stairs at -25.
He also only had a 102 OPS+ and an exactly league average 100 wRC+.
His numbers were buoyed by where he played his home games, Coors Field.
So he was not a good hitter compared to the rest of the league and his defense was the worst in baseball that season by a huge margin.
There’s no value to “hits”?
He had something like a 105 ops+. Coors and the league had a high scoring run environment. When can we’re the value of his production.
I think it’s fair to say that 30-40 bombs, 120-140 rbi’s, and 190-220 hits are objectively impressive. That’s impressive in any era as just pure feats of hitting. Even if it’s in Colorado, he’s still doing it against big league pitchers.
But that was during the height of the roid era.
But, he had some great hair. That is really not well captured by WAR. That and his weird name and goofy batting stance made people in Colorado very happy. Where’s a metric for that?
Might as well get rid of the Hall of Fame because Hank Aaron’s home run record, Tony Gwynn’s hit record batting titles, Andre Dawson? Lee Smith? Early Wynn? Eh screw them not of it matters.
Everything except hits matter. I do not condone violence though hits.
“Hits don’t matter”. I need the wow guy.
Teams need to send a memo to their scouting departments to ignore the hit tool from now on. They already sent the memo to ignore speed a while back, and basically told them that defense was still difficult to analyze via metrics so that defense was also not as important.
The new prototype for baseball is…drumroll please…Dan Vogelbach. Sheesh. No wonder the saberguru worshipper’s drive me straight up a wall.
The hit tool matters. The statistical category “hits” is a poor way to measure player value. That is what is being said here
@JRT – Please take this as a note geared towards the saberjockeys that are bound and determined to think of the game as an exercise in metrics…not really at you.
The “old school types” understand the metrics; actually most of them grasp them more clearly than the new school devotees for the most part, despite our old man yelling at clouds cranking at times. Yes – we get the fact that the old way of valuing pitcher wins and RBI’s and batting average etc. to a higher degree than today makes sense…that the far more detailed metrics that fold many different variables into their overall evaluation will give a crisper and more accurate picture of player values than back of the baseball card stuff. So you and others do not need to explain hit tool vs. hits; fWar vs. bWAR, and so on. We get it.
What gets us is the pontificating by saberjockeys, when they are for the most part missing the biggest part of understanding the game. Playing it for years…watching it for decades…going to games…coaching…reading about it…really seeing it and experiencing it. That is what gives the broader perspective on how to see and use the far greater level of statistical analysis that is available today. When we witness the heated arguments between folks that have already given away the underlying reality that the game is, to them, mostly a bunch of squiggles and graphs and lines in a computer, we stop listening to them.
As far as some of the BOTBC, old school stats:
* Pitcher wins are hardly the best overall measure of pitcher value for sure. But they still matter. There are pitchers that know how to win, and that know how to work deeper into a game…period.
*Batting average and RBI’s and hits, etc. – same thing. They are hardly the best overall metrics for player value, but they matter much more than the sabers state. This garbage saying “hits don’t matter” only shows the ignorance of the sabertypes.
We loved Bill James before most of y’all were in elementary school. But the game became dominated, to its vast detriment, by the MIT mentality which wanted to base all decisions upon deep reads of all sorts of metrics. Now, we have a mess.
We have more .210 / .320 / .460 hitters than you can shake a stick at. The steal went away. K’s went through the roof. More arms ruined per game than ever before. Fans falling asleep while they watch three true outcomes. Yank and crank uppercuts for everyone. Convert everyone in the organization to fit one mold because the metrics say this. You get the drift.
Now, we are seeing the pendulum swing back, Thank Gillick. Just in time, as the product and the game have been suffering. Scouting is coming back into vogue, and player development is becoming more realistic and flexible.
The metrics are great…the professionalization of the game is awesome…having big analytics departments is terrific. But we need to keep the overall perspective. Baseball is the greatest of games, and it is a sport…not a science fair. Analytics is a department that needs to do its job, but it is simply a part of the whole and should never be driving the bus. Eyeballs matter…experience with the game matters…being out on that field matters. Those are still the more important components when it comes to making great baseball decisions. Without those, the metrics are simply a game of Stratomatic.
Hits are a vital aspect of a “hitters” value. Top two or three really. At the most basic level, if you don’t get a hit you probably made an out (or maybe walked/got on on an error). Getting a hit is *always* better than making an out, walking, getting on on an error).
Dee Gordon? See how a .300 hitter got released by the rebuilding Nats
Just because a team releases a guy doesn’t mean they are making the right decision. The Nationals judgement of talent should be called into question anyway. They won a title and their roster immediately crumbled.
*pinches bridge of nose, sighs loudly*
Dante is another great example where WAR is not an accurate measure of a player’s true value. While Dante was not a great (or even good) outfielder by any means, he was a great hitter for many years, yet he only managed a career WAR of 5.7? That makes zero sense. I don’t care if his offensive stats were aided by Coors field; he still played 1/2 his games on the road and it is much harder to heal from injuries in Denver too. If you ask me, his 1995 season should have been worth 5.7 WAR on its own; he was an absolute beast that season: .340BA/.984OPS/38-2B/40-HR/128 RBI and less than 100 K’s. It doesn’t get much better than that!
WAR is quite a primitive thing too. Napoleon apparently was better than Mike Trout. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/d7vcyk/til_that_statistical_analysis_of_6619_generals/&ved=2ahUKEwiEodzi94T9AhW8MTQIHXWcC48QFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ReUgG_HEwe8H1zGjFAkCt
Dante graded out like the worst outfielder to put a glove on.
Was he truly that bad? I can’t recall how awful his defense was. But playing in Colorado right smack in the middle of the steroid era will knock you down a bit.
Dorothy_Mantooth;
How exactly is it much harder to heal from injuries in Denver?
The Army’s Ft. Kit Carson is just south of their along with the Air Force Academy. maybe they should move or something.
@Samuel – I’m not 100% sure of the medical reasons but I assume it has to do with lower oxygen levels. When I say ‘injuries’ I mean minor ones like arm fatigue, pulled muscles, etc. More than one recent chat guests mentioned this in their posts; how hard it was to bounce back from injuries while playing in Colorado.
The low boiling point of water at that elevation makes it harder to sterilize the bandages and gauze and leads to more infections and forced amputations of limbs. Leeches also die from the cold making it harder to bleed your patients properly.
Really, really misleading stat line. On the surface it looks amazing but:
— 3.6% BB% led to a good, but not, great.360 OBP. Really not great when your BA was.340
— Negative value in base running
— REALLY negative value in the field (costing his team more than 20 runs in that one year)
— Overall offense was again a solid, but hardly amazing 31% above league average. In 2022, 31% above average was the 30th best performance for qualified hitters (Bichette’s 2005 offense was comparable to Eugino Suarez’s 2022). And in 2005, being 30% better than league average was even less remarkable. So yes, it DOES get much better than that.
The numbers only look amazing if you:
— Strip out historical context (lots of people were putting up silly triple slash lines)
— Ignore the extreme benefit that comes with playing half your games in Denver
— Disregard defense completely
— Overvalue obsolete stats that are largely team or situationally dependent
Dante was a solid ML player but it stops there. No shame in that. 9 fWAR is a respectable career that he should be very proud of.
@bjsguess – you bring up some good points but again, I’ll argue that today’s metrics are flawed. To me, the most important offensive stats are RBI and runs scored. If you’re not driving in runs or scoring runs then how are you contributing to your team’s offense? So much importance is placed on OBP these days. If you have a player who has 500+ ABs and an OBP of .360 or higher, they’d better have 90+ RBI or score 90+ runs; otherwise that OBP number is rather hollow. It tells me the player is good at drawing walks or hitting two out singles at inopportune times. Not a clutch player. Not only did Dante drive in close to 130 runs, he scored over 100 runs in 2005 as well, which tells me he was a clutch hitter and better than advertised base runner as well. I don’t mean for this to be a Dante Bichette fan club post, but he was definitely worth much more than 5.7 Wins Above Replacement over his entire career.
@Mantooth-
”To me, the most important offensive stats are RBI and runs scored. If you’re not driving in runs or scoring runs then how are you contributing to your team’s offense?”
1995 road stats: 9HR and 45RBIs. The 45 RBIs isn’t terrible, but when you’re a terrible glove corner outfielder, power and run production is everything! He’s not doing that on the road, so yeah, as much as his home game WAR might be really desirable, his road game cancelled it out. Basically he’s a very inconsistent player. No different that Javy Baez, who was wildly inconsistent, however Javy at least had a glove that was so exciting to watch play the field or even the way he’s running the bases that he could make you watch in aw and sometimes laugh at how badly he could make his opponents do the dumbest stuff, instead of laughing at Bichette trying to field a ball with a glove on.
I am pretty sure that ballpark is considered in OPS+.
@NicoHoerndawg
RBi are the least important stat when evaluating a hitter. You’re either awarding or penalizing a hitter based on what the hitters in front of him are able to do.
@Stealing Sign – yes I know that very well. I’m just quoting the others guys post that RBI and HR were all that mattered to him. He was using that as his statement that Bichette was a good player despite splits. Dude did drive in a lot of runs especially in Colorado because there’s always runners on base there. But no Bichette was so lucky he played a majority of his career in CO. I know RBI’s sure are important as a team, but it’s a stat that doesn’t tell the full picture about the specific player and what opportunities he’s gotten to bat in. There are guys who end up batting in positions that they’ve had 70 less runners on bass for their at bats compared to another who despite having the opportunity to drive in 70 more runners somehow only manages to drive in 10-20 more RBIs. I’ll take the guy who did more with less on bass. Those things also tend to average out over the years too, but also depending on their playing situations through their career. Being on a team that emphasizes getting on base gives all their hitters more opportunities to drive in runs.
RBIs are a team stat. The more men on base when a batter comes to the plate, the more runs they will drive in. Every season the top RBI guys are the ones that had the most RISP.
If you want a valuable stat in measuring how good a player is at driving in runs, look at BRS%. Base runner scoring %. The leader is typically not the one that drives in the most runs in a season, but they are the one that is most effective at driving in runs.
Dorothy: RBI is more a function of opportunity, so it’s more of a team stat than an individual gauge of a player’s worth. You have to have men on base to drive in a run (except for a home run obviously).
Bichette Sr had an OPS 350 points higher at home compared to the road in ‘95. For his career, it was more than a 200 point difference. And his glove was absolutely terrible. I don’t ever remember laughing at worse plays by an outfielder more than him in his time.
I dunno who I’m replying to because Jack and Jim have both persuaded me to indulge their friendship numerous times tonight.
However
Stating xyz is the only thing I care about is statically silly
Player A could have a 400 BA with 900 slugging, pif players B and C have 200 BA with runners in scoring position, with a 600 ops with runners in scoring position and all 3 players are successive in the order, player A is not going to be MVP, likely isn’t going to the playoffs. But might get HOF votes
Trout is going in thr HOF, those stats obviously aren’t a reflection of him. Point being. If no one gets on base or no one hits you in. What good are your personal accolades?
If Trout never wins a WS, do you think he’d trade his HOF career for a single raise on the trophy??? Regardless if he’s the star player or a bench piece
I know which I’d rather. A bench piece who has a prolonged career is still a millionaire with a ring. A HOF player gets a retirement career signing cards at conventions
Yep. Defensively Bichette Sr. was a good DH.
Thing is in those days they didn’t care because he could flub a play and a run could score then the next time he’s in the batters box he could crush one 450ft. Ah the glory days of Coors Field
Donkey Bichette is the ultimate example that defense matters. A run saved on defense is worth a run created on offense.
You could put a statue in LF and it’s chance of catching the ball was not much worse than Donkeys was.
I kept score at a game at Shea in 1995 where they played the Rockies. There were 11 balls hit to LF. 2 were over the fence. 1 was caught for an out. 3 were ground balls. 2 were singles on line drives where Donkey never moved. He just let the ball drop in front of him. An out for pretty much any OF. 1 was a line drive double to the gap. The other 2 were doubles in the box score, but should have been errors. On one of them Donkey broke the wrong way and still was a only couple steps off the track and should have caught the ball but just stopped and played it on the carom. On the other it was a hard hit line drive that he just waved at as it went by and then played it on the carom
The guy was the worst I have ever seen in my 60 years of attending MLB games. In his career he has a -90 DRS. No OF has been worse that I can find.
I’m glad I was never a Rockies fan because it was just so comical to watch him play the OF. One of my friends was a Rockies fan and he’d lose his mind about it long enough that he just finally gave in and began to laugh with the rest of us as it would happen. It sure was an adventure watching a ball get hit to him. Schwarber got a lot of flack in 2015 playing the outfield, but he still made some great plays too, and was nowhere near as abysmal as Bichette. And he was completely new to it then. Bichette would’ve been looked at in a different light had he been an AL player or playing in todays DH era.
Just buying out arb like they did with Chapman to keep good will and show willingness to negotiate on a future deal
3 years/$33M or 13 years/$364M, middle loaded, something like that.
6,11,18 is my guess. So 3/35
I was guessing $6M, $10M, $17M but I did consider that they might add around $667k per season to push it to $35M total- either way I think we can all agree that’s a sensible arbitration salary progression to lock in. If he implodes the Jays overpay by about $6M and if he over performs they save about $8M.
I also think around 33
Does this mean Toronto will work out a deal to keep him longterm, same with Guerrero, or will they let either walk? They really should keep both. I know Bichette doesn’t rate well as a shortstop but he can hit. These two are definitely worth keeping around.
@acoss13
It means they bought out his arb years. Nothing more.
No yeah, just wondering if they might have longterm deals conversations sooner with this.
But it does take out any contentiousness between now and his free agency period. Neither side needs to worry about annual arbitration salaries anymore. If Toronto truly wants to retain Bichette long term, they have a great platform to do so now and Bichette knows he’ll be a multi-millionaire before he hits free agency regardless of what Toronto decides to do.
If Toronto doesn’t want to retain Bichette long term, both Toronto and potential trade partners know what his actual cost will be for the next 3 seasons and they’ll use these 3 (or less) ‘discounted’ years to come up with a long term contract at a reasonable AAV by folding them into an extension offer. This is a win-win for both sides.
@Dorothy_Mantooth
Contentiousness is the oil in the machinery of negotiations. Actually, that isn’t negotiation. It’s ownership saying this is what we think is fair. Take it or leave it, because you’re going to be here for the next 3 years regardless.
Free agency is another kettle of fish. Bo will go to the highest bidder.
I wasn’t in the negotiations so I have no idea what the 2 sides were looking at. But here’s what I see:
SS is the 2nd most important defensive position on a team. Mr. Bichette is not a very good one. With the shift going away his future – if he has one – will be either at 2B, the OF, or as a semi-expensive utility guy.
Consider this about SS’s – Between the Red Sox, Guardians, Reds, Yankees, and Orioles they have 14-16 quality SS prospects alone in the high minors. In MLB’s Top 100 prospects 20 are SS’s (some SS’s are in both categories).
Now add in the insane long-term contracts given out to SS’s the past 2 off-seasons. Those guys are going to play SS or 2B somewhere for years to come – because teams have a contract with them.
Why any team would go beyond a players arbitration years for a SS in this environment is beyond me. A glut of SS’s (and 2B’s) is (are) right around the corner. The law of supply and demand says that MI salaries will be going down. Why pay a guy 7=10 times what another guy will give you when at best he’ll be 15-20% better for the life of the contract?
@Samuel – I agree with you on the SS market. While I would have loved to see Xander stay with Boston, the contract he signed with San Diego was insane! The only counter argument is that all of these up and coming SS prospects are just that: prospects. While most who are in the Top 100 will make it to the majors and will be given ample opportunities to succeed, not all of them will perform or live up to expectations. Some teams apparently prefer to pay for a ‘sure thing’ than hold out hopes that their young prospects can continue their excellence in the majors. With that said, I don’t remember a time like this where there were so many talented, young SS’s getting ready to break into the majors. It should lead to some future all stars along with some future disappointments as well. I doubt Toronto will lock up Bichette as their long-term SS but they may like his bat enough to lock him up long term at another position, even DH if need be. Bichette will just need to accept that he’s not going to get paid premium SS money.
First thing Bo did after signing his contract,he logged onto his Amazon and stocked up on Conair blow dryers.
I picture he’s already got one in every power outlet at home and another in every car using the cigarette socket.
$40 million?
More like 19-23m for the 3 years.
29m-33m*
I could see something in the range of: $7M/$12M/$16M = $35M or maybe even $7M/$13M/$20M = $40M. It may sound like an overpay but it probably needed to be in order for Bichette to lock in all 3 years of his arbitration salaries right now.
Wow, I came pretty close to the actual deal value he signed for. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
To me lessons the chance of him being a jay long term. If you sign him long term you can use some of the 3 arb years to bring down the avg annual value.
I’m guessing they weren’t close on proposed numbers extending beyond Arb, otherwise we may have seen exactly what you mentioned.
Good. This will buy the team more time to work out a long-term deal in a friendlier environment. This won’t have any bearing on long-term negotiations you say? Okay, then the team pivots and trades him next offseason. And trust me, they will get a king’s ransom for him. It would replenish their depleted farm system and have enough funds to re-allocated to Vlad, Manoah, and a high-end FA. WIn/Win all around.
The trade market does seem to appealing for teams that it makes sense even for contenders to deal top talent. It always seems the market is a sellers’ market when Texas wants to buy and vice versa, though.
Please, Bo has a okay bat now but he is not great. He has his offensive flaws. And he is a below average shortstop, last in the AL if I recall. Don’t sign this guy longterm to a megadeal, that would be a stupid thing to do.
It is good on the Jays to sign him and avoid the arb process. He belongs playing second base. Period.
Bo is close to the worst SS in baseball defensively according to fangraphs DEF measurement.
Cost certainly with Bo is good for the Jays to throw the kitchen sink at Vlad jr. once the Soto deal is done.
@Goose Man – They just need to make sure Vlad doesn’t eat the kitchen sink! All jokes aside, Vlad’s weight/conditioning is the only thing that could potentially derail a long term extension with Toronto. Vlad did an amazing job losing weight and getting in better shape after his rookie season, but with his body type he’ll have to work harder each season to keep the extra weight off. In exchange for a $300M+ deal, Toronto may want to add a weight clause to his deal to prevent a Pablo Sandoval disaster, but not sure how Vlad would feel about that.
I am estimating $32 mil over 3 years. Anyone else want to take educated guesses before the deal is announced ?
My estimate is based on $6, ~$10, ~$16 as arbitration generally goes.
That salary certainty should make it easier to trade him.
I like these shorter deals. I get why players go for long contracts, but it’s kinda busted. Sucks watching a player get trotted out because the club is still paying them big money, even though they’re past they’re prime. Maybe after a lot of these goofy deals end in eaten contracts, we’ll see more options/incentives (I suppose we’re already seeing some). Hope Bo does well
Offer Kikuchi 6 more years + $8 million
Smart move by the Jays
Bichette’s D declined last year so gives a few more years to see if Martinez or a few others are going to be that guy at SS.
And in 3 years Jays can let Bichette walk or move him to 3b.
Vladi will be the Jay that gets the HUGE deal
Bo doesn’t have the arm for 3B, he is destined for 2nd if his D does not improve this year.
The guy who all of the have not fans think is the least likely is so far the only homegrown guy to sign an extension.
Toronto will lock up Bo and Vlad long term.
Small market teams like San Diego spend money.
Toronto is large market.They are owned by a mega billion dollar corporation with an entire country of TV & advertising revenue..
They could field a team of highest paid players at each position if they felt like it and still make money.
Toronto is back to the we don’t rebuild we reload days.
Fun to watch.
San Diego isn’t a small market team. They’re the only professional sports team there.
Their streaming/tv revenue is huge. They’ve sold out season tickets already & had about 150K show up for fanfest.
Hi folks looking for members to join my fantasy league – feel free to check it out and sign up! https://fantasy.espn.com/baseball/league/join?leagueId=2053656043&inviteId=b96b53e6-5d3f-433e-9c39-55d8578b2f97
I signed up, but now the league does not exist. What happened ?
Hes 100% gone at the end of that Arb no one wants to play in Toronto!
@deGrom Texas Rangers
Yeah, that’s why we had to overpay Semien & Seager…Oh wait…
Anyone living in Texas & having to endure that eyesore of a ballpark shouldn’t be casting stones.
and the SKYDOME is the crown jewel of baseball lol —- Bo and vladdy are both gone no one wants to play in that woke dust hole of a city
Reasonable deal with good incentives too
It’s fair. The only thing missing is a couple of club options @25-30 per ….
Deal seems good for the Jays, light for Bichette.
Conair stock is up 1000%
The Dart method should.be utilized by the Tigers. It’s likely to be more effective.
I had to scroll for an unnecessary 15secs. He’s a primadonna that likes his own hair too much. Just imagine what he does in the mirror every night. Not a personality I’d have in my club house 8mil per year MAX!!!!!!
Book meet the judge. Apparently it is possible to tell all just by looking at the man. Impressive
Called it. $33M w/ a few extra hundred grand per season.
They should win that division.
Brucenewton interested in a FB auction league?
This player spits well out between top front teeth. Has long scraggly hair and sports massive sunglass goggles. And his first name is Bo. Got the picture?
Help me out here, so Bo wanted 7.5, the Jays wanted 5, and they SETTLED? at $11.5 million? That’s pretty pricey to just avoid arbitration and keep goodwill. I get that another two years of arbitration will rise his salary but what am I missing here? Thanks in advance.