March 31, 2:05pm: Reynolds was looking for an opt-out after 2026, per Mark Feinsand of MLB.com. Reynolds is currently slated for free agency after 2025, so the Pirates would only gain one extra year of control in the event they agreed to that contract and he eventually opted out.
March 31, 1:35pm: Some more details on the negotiations come from Mackey (Twitter links one, two and three). He says that the eight-year, $106MM deal being discussed includes 2023 and that Reynolds is willing to backload the deal so that triggering his opt-out means walking away from the biggest salaries.
March 31, 12:40pm: The conceptual issue is indeed an opt-out clause, reports Rob Biertempfel of The Athletic. He adds that the two sides have come to an agreement around $106MM on the guarantee, roughly the middle point between the previous asking prices, but that Reynolds and his reps want an opt-out that the Pirates appear unwilling to give thus far.
March 30: The Pirates and outfielder Bryan Reynolds have been discussing a contract extension in recent days, with today’s opener reportedly considered a cutoff point. The season has now begun and it appears that there’s still no deal in place, per Jon Heyman of The New York Post, who adds that the two sides have an agreement on dollars but a “major conceptual issue” is getting in the way.
To this point, it’s unclear what this conceptual issue is. Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette confirms Heyman’s report (Twitter links) and adds that the hangup is not “years/dollars or size of the thing.” If it’s not the length or the guarantee, it could be something like an opt-out or a no-trade clause, though that’s merely speculation.
Regardless of what the issue is, the fact that the two sides got closer on the money is encouraging. Discussions earlier this winter reportedly had the Pirates offering something in the $75-80MM range over six years while Reynolds’ camp was aiming for $134MM over eight years. The two sides were so far apart that Reynolds requested a trade. The Pirates appeared generally unmoved by that request and seemingly had no desire to drop their sky-high asking price. It’s a somewhat positive sign that the talks have been fruitful enough that a deal seems close, though it hasn’t yet gotten over the line.
It has been reported in recent days that the Opening Day game is something of a deadline for negotiations. The Pirates have now started their first game of the season and it seems a deal still isn’t in place. However, Mackey reports that both sides still view it as being possible.
Whether or not a deal comes together in the coming days or weeks remains to be seen. If the talks eventually end without a new deal, there’s nothing preventing further talks from starting down the road, though players often like to use Opening Day as a point to focus less on contractual matters and more on their on-field duties. Reynolds will be making $6.75MM this year as part of a two-year deal to avoid arbitration he signed going into 2022. The Pirates can still retain his services via arbitration for 2024 and 2025, with Reynolds currently slated for free agency after that. He’s coming into this season with a career batting line of .281/.361/.481 for a wRC+ of 126.
The issue is he wants the Pirates to go all in on a winning product and they won’t agree
Pirates are actually willing to pay? I think the hangup is the Pirates being shocked he’d accept their offer or pending a ship hijacking going as planned so they can afford it.
Yawn, (scratch) burp, fart, scratch again.. Time to watch BB
This is old & beyond…I need a beer
Mmm… beer…
Conceptually, Pirates should probably pay him the $6.75, and then go through arbitration with him. If a trade is offered that is particularly enticing, take it. Pirates are not going to be competitive for a while, might as well get cheap younger talent. And the player himself will make plenty through arb, if if he’s traded, would likely get an extension from the acquiring team.
Braves kept Freeman through a rebuild and that helped get them a World Series title.
If they go through arbitration, they pay Reynolds more money.
I thought he wanted to be traded. Then he wanted a contract. Now it’s a size thing? I just can’t make up my mind.
He wanted to be traded based on the idea the Pirates were not going to budge from their initial offer
He wants to play on a contender, too…
This is the reason why the Pirates need to trade this poor guy.
it’s impossible to explain logic to some people, TJECK
I’m going to guess the hold out is a opt out year. Pirates are likely wanting to have the commitment go both ways and not be held hostage by the idea he’s going to up and leave and they get nothing for him.
Not saying it’s the right approach for the pirates but I’d almost guarantee it’s opt out years
Sounds like he’s saying “you guys are offering me an amount of money I’m okay with, except for the concern that my contract would then bloat the budget and you guys wouldn’t be able to do anything else and so I’d be one of those bizarre overpays on one player that prevents the rest of the franchise from competing unless other players accept low ball offers or you rely on getting lucky with cheap team controlled players and low ball bounce back deals during my entire contract duration. I want assurances I am the first of many big budget salary adjustments…and I want opt outs in case I completely lose my faith in you guys and can go be the free agent I know I could be.”
Then maybe he could offer the team opt outs in case they completely lose faith in his ability to be part of a winning team.
Yes! Although perhaps adding the word “contributing”, so that it reads “in case they completely lose confidence in his ability to remain a contributing part of a winning team” to ensure his production doesn’t crater along the way.
There’s nothing conceptual about contacts.
What does birth control have to do with this?
The answer will come soon after this pregnant pause…
We’re talking about Bryan Reynolds not what Manny Ramirez used to beat steroid tests 🙂
An opt-out after so many years if the team’s record is under a certain threshold is something I would want if i was Bryan.. If I was performing well and the team isn’t looking up in 2025 fair chance i would want to look for greener pastures. I can certainly see that as a sticking point.
Nice to hear that they’re comfortable with the numbers though. With that part mostly out of the way i can see them continuing to talk at least for a few more days into the season.
Must say I am excited. the trade request report in the off season soured me to Bryan some but that might have just been frustration talking with all the trade rumors and theory crafting. do not know but that’s what i am going to choose to think until he says otherwise.
If he wants an opt out and no trade, I shut this down as well, especially if he is doing like Hayes and getting it frontloaded.
He probably wants an opt out available in case he IS dealt. He’d end up getting dealt to just about anyone with this reported $$. There might be places he’d rather be much less than Pittsburgh
Future Cub Bryan Reynolds will play out his years with the Pirates before moving on to bigger and better things
The lovable losers from the Windy City? I thought you say bigger, better things.
Maybe you’re living in some strange time warp. Bigger and better things aren’t to be found at Wrigley
If the rumor had any truth—that part of this was due to Reynolds wanting to be with a contender—then he has to look around the lineup and be much more heartened than what he’s been saddled with the past few seasons
They’re still likely a 70-75 win team, but Cruz, Hayes, Suwinski, Bae and many more of the kids are only going to mature and improve. Having Cutch, Santana and Choi around in the batting order isn’t going to hurt
Pirates are undefeated this year.
demands to play center field
he has already acknowledged he is better at left field and didn’t seem to mind being moved.
He’ll do as he’s told
It’s probably a opt out. Or WHERE the opt out is..
Opt outs basically put all the risk on the team.
Staying in Pittsburgh is a huge risk for a player that wants to win at some point in their career.
Sounds like the Pirates want to defer money and he isn’t interested at all. I can’t blame him. I’m excited to see where he goes at the deadline
Opt outs are awful for a team. Hold strong Nutting. Sign our deal or play 3 years for minimum wage. Offer more $ in exchange for no opt out. Or give opt out in exchange for team opt out the next year. Just absolutely don’t give out a Padre contract.
Reynolds is currently under control for 3 more seasons including this one. He’ll make 6.75M$ this year then go through arb twice.
This contract would essentially pay him 6.75, ~10.125, ~13.5, ~16.875 for 5 FA years. He wouldn’t be a FA again until he’s entering his age 36 season. (Edit: actually this would give him 114.75M$, which is 8.25M$ more than is being currently reported)
That’s super team friendly for a career 127 OPS+ player in today’s market. It could be the last contract he signs, without an opt-out.
I’d give him the opt out but after 5 years not 4, PIT would at least be guaranteed to get him for 2 FA years. If he sucks, and doesn’t opt-out then the Pirates are only on the hook for 3 additional years at sub 20M$ year salaries – that shouldn’t break them and is worth the gamble to get him for at least 2 additional years. If he’s great and opts out, then PIT got him for below market value an extra 2 years and he has the opportunity to sign another contract via FA entering his age 33 season.
Yes. Opt out 2027 or later is fine. 2026 is not acceptable.
His current salary in 2023 is part of a very team friendly 2 year deal he signed before the start of the 2022 season. He is projected to earn $15-17 million in arbitration in 2024 and $21-23 million in 2025.
He is asking for the opt out prior to his age 31 season so that he has a shot at another big dollar deal if he has far outperformed the valuation of the deal with the Pirates. And also to make sure that he is not trapped on a losing team for 8 seasons.
Minimum wage? Based on this websites algorithm for arbitration salaries, Reynolds will get more than $15 million for 2024, more than $20 million for 2025. That may be minimum wage for Fortune 500 CEO’s, but not for baseball players.
8/106 is a $13.25 million AAV. Its a bargain. Give him the opt out after 2026. If the team still sucks he deserves to get out of there.
Minimum wage for him.
They already control him through 2025 with no extension and I wouldn’t hold my breath about the prospect of him pulling a “Nolan Arenado” and opting in if he and his agent think he can do better come the 2026-27 offseason, even if the Pirates win the WS in 2026.
Guess you missed the part of the article where it says Reynolds was on with the deal being heavily backloaded so he would be opting out of most of the money.
He wants to win. Do you blame him for wanting to stay if the Pirates continue to suck year after year?
If he and his agent think they can beat his remaining contract as a FA he’s opting out. Even if the Pirates win the WS in 2026.
“He wants to win.” As opposed to wanting to lose? That’s every player. You think Ke’Bryan Hayes wants to lose? Because I don’t.
Some contraceptive use might help.
I’m shocked. I assume the issue is he didn’t want to be paid in Pesos, He wanted real money. Those exchange rates will kill ya.
It’s an opt-out.
Nice call, slick.
Is an opt out conceptual ?
I’ve got it as a material thing. Got to be something new doesn’t it ?
Makes it sound like they have different views on foundational ethical theory, or maybe the degree to which truth claims are socially constructed.
He wants free wifi on the team plane. You know… that thing the Yankees don’t give their own players.
Free Wi-fi? On planes? Stanton and Judge could afford to buy a plane, plus all the wi-fi anyone could want.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-the-most-valuable-f…
si.com/mlb/2023/03/15/yankees-no-in-flight-interne…
I don’t do links. I prefer patties…. heh heh heh….
Seriously… the lowest ranking player on that flight makes $700 large. They need free wi-fi? Maybe some of them said “Hey! Screw the free Wi-fi…. give me the difference in cash!’
Took a glance at the article, YBC.
Reminds me of a cab driver in Detroit, who told me of a Yankee passenger that complained about the $72/day meal money, back in the 70’s. That player was Reggie Jack$on..
In the 70s, my Dad could feed all six of us for less than $72 a day. Far less.
I met Reggie once due to my past affiliation in the NYC nightlife scene. He was with Jeter and Gerald Williams and the least nice of the bunch.
Actually the lowest player makes 720K at a pro-rated rate. Something most people don’t ever think about. If the player is pre-arb and is optioned he then makes the pro-rated rate of his split minor league contract. It’s like OAK not paying for soda in their player locker room, just weird.
I believe that. Reggie was always for Reggie. First, last and always. Kind of like Joe D. Great ballplayers. Off the field, kind of jerks.
Again… If I don’t drink soda, I’d rather have $$$$. Yes, it’s cheap. You’d think any MLB team would spring for beverages. But the A’s being cheap doesn’t surprise me.
Mike Cameron, Cliff Floyd, David Wright, Rocco Balldelli… those guys I would hang with. Ironically, most are former Mets.
You weren’t required to eat out 2 meals a day for $72 per day. That per diem is only paid on the road.
In the 1970s that was a fortune.
I went to college in 1977, the same year Reggie hit 3 consecutive HRs (and 4 consecutive in two games) in the WS. Eating out, in NY, I could get a huge breakfast at IHOP for under $4. Big Macs were still under $1. A nice steak dinner with all the trimmings was under $10. Even in nice restaurants. I remember I had a great night at Roosevelt Raceway, won about $80. On the way home I treated the four guys with me to dinner and picked up the tab. As a poor college guy!
Reynolds…and a prospect…for Gleyber Torres. Two more years of control and in the Bucs park he’s good for 30+ HRS. We alleviate you of the contractual difficulty with Reynolds (I.e.he doesn’t want to be there) and give you a solid bat, all star caliber 2B man.
And the Pirates hang up. Yankees will have to offer a lot more than Gleyber which is a player they do not want.
Imagine, if you will, acting like you are doing the Pirates a favor by taking Bryan Reynolds off their hands.
I’d act like I were doing Reynolds a favor, by taking the Pirates off his hands.
SWB Pirates! I like it.
1 less year of control.
Need to throw in Garcia to sweeten the deal.
He’s voiced his preference of staying multiple times. But I also think he clearly wants the team to be competitive while he’s here – hence his wording of “a contract that’s fair for both sides”. I think the trade request was more of him saying I’m serious about wanting to compete. Buccos then made some additions to placate him. Talks opened back up. Eventually they found a number they’re happy with – but now something else has come up.
I wonder if it’s a stipulation on percentage of contract to overall payroll… like at any point during the contract his salary represents over 20% of the major league payroll he will be automatically eligible to opt out the following season.
He just wants $
Then why is he willing to backload the contract to a point where if he opted out he’d be missing out on the bulk of the $?
Because that’s better than playing 3 seasons with no guarantee of 106 million dollars. We will see if he opts out and loses tens of millions just so he can win. You will be on your 37th user name by then so maybe we won’t.
No it isn’t, even if he got hurt and missed the season he’d make 6.75M$ this year and at least 10M$ via arbitration this winter. Enough to live multiple lifetimes with. It’s not ridiculous to assume he would like to also play on a team dedicated to winning.
team dedicated to winning.? Does that sound like the Pirates?
37th user name? What?
Exactly
I’ve had exactly one username on here so I don’t know what you’re talking about. I think you’re confusing me for someone else.
Wow, what an interesting concept
I’m fine with an opt out, as long as it’s after the 4th year with an escalating salary each year of the contract. Then, he’d be walking away from the $.
Nothing is easy for us Pirates fans. Still I’ll be surprised if a deal isn’t completed in coming days/weeks.
I’d be more surprised if a deal consummates at this point.
What’s more likely. Both parties holding their ground, my way or highway? Or finding at middle or someone caving?
I think Reynolds conceding a lot of money already if rumors are true of the total dollar amount he was originaly looking for. The ball is in the Nuttings’ court (bad pun intended).
I will go with he folds on opt out as well. Settles for 2027 2028.
Reynolds has to give Pirates at least two extra years of team control, otherwise they are taking on a ton of risk for very little reward (one year of play).
It seems likely the team has been using the wrong pronouns and he wants this situation rectified.
I wonder if he’s trying for an opt-out in case the rebuild doesn’t work out and I believe the Bucs are one of the teams that refuse to give them out. They wont spend to make up for it if the minor leaguers don’t work out and he probably doesn’t want to go through a second rebuild
He’s wondering how much more $ I can get if I have a 800 ops at 30 31.
If I were a Pirates fan, I’d rather trade him for a huge prospect haul. If they give out this deal, ownership will just use it as an excuse to be even cheaper and it will paint them into a corner. Bob Nutting is already dining on hot pockets and ramen every night so we have to see the human toll as well.
They don’t need excuses and most fans don’t care or believe them. No team wants to give a huge prospect return.
RetroBeers;
Sorry. Bryan Reynolds is not bringing back a “huge prospect haul”.
The fans and the media think that. No team is offering that.
Did you see the “huge prospect haul” the A’s got for Sean Murphy? Similar control years. Catcher is a far, far more important position than LF, and Murphy is a better player. Young quality catchers are
in demand. The A’s shopped him around. What they got from the Braves was the best they could get.
I think there were some fat trade packages on the table for Reynolds, it’s just that the Pirates were absurdly greedy so no deal was done. But all of us are speaking from a position of abject ignorance regarding trade proposals unless there are front office employees lurking here.
“You see, Bryan… can I call you Bryan? Good. Anyway, Bryan, you’re a big duck in a small pond. Actually, a pool or a pond. The pond would work better for you…”
I’m trying to think of two better position players on Yankees than him, but I just can’t.
I’m betting there are two issues.
Deferred money and no trade clause.
Nope. It was the opt-out.
Draftkings thanks you
No player is worth 22M per year
Not true.
#FreeBryanReynolds
More teams need to stick to their guns on opt outs. A six year contract is a six year contract. Otherwise, just sign a three year one. Idiocy.
Agreed on that.
And if a player doesn’t think a team will compete during his tenure, just sign elsewhere.
I agree but if you’re not going to budge on opt-outs you need to pay the player what he wants. The owners can certainly afford it.
or just force him through arbitration and pick up the discussion 3 years from now?
If he plays well enough to be worth keeping they won’t be able to afford to keep him as a FA. What I’m saying is I agree on not giving players opt-outs but you can’t do that and then also lowball them in terms of the total guarantee. It’s one or the other.
If I am the Pirates, I would balk at the opt out clause too. They have his rights for 3 more seasons. Why pay way more than they would if they don’t extend to have him leave for FA and no compensation? Makes no sense for the Bucs.
I don’t blame the Pirates. Makes no sense to give an opt out
note on today’s announcement that it is an opt-out. If i were the pirates. I would give a triggered opt out based on the previous seasons record after say 4 years or something. Bryan should still have something left in the tank at that point to find another job and the pirates could keep a star player if they are doing well. But with that concession i would want to add on a cheap buy out team option at the end with pay similar to the previous seasons.
of course, thats just like my opinion man
Guessing Reynolds is wanting an opt out after either 24 or 25. That would not make sense for either the Bucs to agree to that or for Reynolds to agree for anything after the 25 season
2026 tying it to record. Losing team it triggers.
2026 opt out triggered automatically if traded.
after 2026, limited no trade clause. I think he may have a limited no trade after that by default being a veteran with the same team that many years.. either way put that there.
and again drop on a team option(s) for another one or two years. while keeping the guarantee under 110m
Win for Bryan.
Win for Pirates
the market changes for trade partners some though.
teams looking for a stop gap would be the market.
regardless opt outs is not something you really see the pirates do on a MLB contract. I can not remember a time the pirates did one.
Not a ton of teams have done them.
So let me get this straight, he begs and pleads for an extention and now hes complaining about opt outs. If I were the Pirates, I’d cancel all negogaitions and just let him sit out. The Pirates will finish with one of the worst records anyway, with or without him. What a sneak. Greed is all these players ever think about. 100 million just isn’t enough I guess, meanwhile the people who fund your salaray, aka the fans, have to go out and get a real job for a living making peanuts compared to these players. 10 years and retire in luxury, the dream. This dude is a dog
He won’t sit out. It’s not the nfl. Reynolds team see’s all this weak ran teams giving opt outs. It’s a terrible move so hopefully the pirates hold strong. Just a negotiation. Wait and see who caves first.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t really been following this story very close. Does any know how they got to this point? Did Reynolds ask for a trade first, or did the Bucks insult one of their stars with a low ball offer first, like Bloom did with Xander?
Reynolds is desperate for a extension. Pirates offered the Murphy deal that is a solid comp but doesn’t make sense for Reynolds. His agents think a going public with a trade deal is a smart negotiating tactic and cost their client tens of millions. Pirates said we don’t care what you want. We aren’t trading you unless we get blown away with a offer.
cool. thanks
I tend to think that if the last GM was here, Reynolds would have been long gone and for lower level prospects. If nothing else, I give Cherington credit for holding firm
I’m not of the belief that the team will be better than 70-75 wins this year but with the current line up and guys like Swaggerty, Gonzalez and a number of good pitchers on the farm, there’s light at the end of the tunnel. (Where’s @MendozaLine?)
The last gm did turn 1 year of rapidly declining Cutch into Reynolds so maybe not the best example to trash him.
@cornwhisperer Other way around Huntington would have been more likely than Cherington to keep Reynolds. He held out for a king’s ransom for Vazquez, for instance.
How many pats on the back must I give you before you demand I buy you dinner, too?
If you are buying me dinner I might let you pat me somewhere else.
Bucs insulted with a low ball offer and then Reynolds said trade me.
OOPS! He forgot about that pesky arbitration business.
They can go ahead and pay him in arbitration. It will be $15 MM plus in 2024 and $20 MM plus in 2025. Then he will walk as a FA.
Do you REALLY think Nutting will pay anyone $15 million? Reynolds will get traded soon if they don’t get this extension done. .
I got to think that 106 they’ve agreed to is over 6 years, not 8. If it was 8, that would only average 13.25, and that seems awfully low.
Ya, I think I read it is in the neighborhood or 22mil a year
6 years is my guess
If it’s 6 years it’s awful for the team. 7 years it’s bad. 8 years it’s fair. I mean it’s Bob Nutting so I would go with 8. He is making 6 million this year with 2 years of arbitration and will hit free agency turning 31. Most advisors would say take the $.
His salary this season is $6.75 million as part of a very team friendly 2 year/$13.5 million deal he signed prior to the 2022 season. Projections for arbitration are $15-17 million in 2024 and $21-23 million in 2025.
Pirates are a joke!
He exceeds expectations in the next few years, he opts out and gets a bigger contract than the backloaded deal offered to him by the Bucs. He has a decrease in production before the opt-out, he stays with the team and still gets paid big bucks.
It’s great the front office increased the offer, but it makes no sense for the Bucs to do this.
Increase the $$$, remove the Opt-Out, and keep him long term. Otherwise, revisit the negotiations mid-season/in the offseason, but answer phones on trade calls w/out dropping the desired return price.
I bet you weren’t saying these things when you stole the Pirates money huh Jason?
Well, if it’s heavily backloaded, it’s worth the risk for both sides. He out performs the contract, he can take a chance and opt out and if underperforms, don’t opt out. Sounds simple.
I’m not so sure about that.. seems like a very little potential reward for a lot of extra risk.
Best case scenario is that Reynolds is a star. The Pirates get some certainty on cost and an additional year of control. Then Reynolds walks or is traded.
Worst case, he represses significantly. The contract is a dud and the Pirates are on the hook for all $106 million.. not a huge sum but a team like the Pirates would definitely feel that hit.
People on here consistently ignore the risk for teams.
He’s essentially negotiating his control years and asking for the opt out with the Pirates getting an extra year of control.
If I were the Pirates I just wouldn’t add no trade protection, because that’s a cost controlled asset when dealing with other teams.
Sounds like a reasonable deal and length.
Dock_Elvis;
Yes and No.
Forgetting the dollar amount, you’re correct – Reynolds is offering to stay on for one year after his control years. However, then he’s asking to be paid for 4 additional years if he doesn’t opt out.
Basically he’s using the Pirates as an insurance company to assure him of a large payday for 4 years in the event he gets injured and/or his career takes a Joey Gallo/Christian Yelich-like trajectory. Should he not be increasingly productive those last 4 years the Pirates are stuck with a bad contract…and small market teams cannot afford even one of those without affecting the team for years.
Right. If I’m the Pirates there’s honestly about 90% chance I’m dealing him, and probably fairly soon. In the player end that’s where I’d ask for the no-trade trigger on an extension. Protect against being locked in another situation in an Oakland or KC. 8 years is really not wonderful. Year One they probably aren’t going anywhere. Maybe year 2-3. And then you’re dealing with an aging player.
Dock_Elvis;
This is really silly.
The Pirates are not contending in 2023 or 2024.
Bryan Reynolds is not a superstar or he’d have shown indications by now. His value was when fans that don’t watch him play thought he was a quality CF that could hit. But he’s not a good ML CF let alone a quality one, and the Pirates are moving him to LF this year. Sure, he’s a fine ML hitter and could help the Yankees, Rangers or some other teams in LF. However, with his salary going up and his (and his agents) salary demands, teams are going to be cautious of dealing for him – and they aren’t going to overwhelm the Pirates with an offer.
The Pirates should have dealt him after the 2021 season. That was his max value. The Pirates aren’t contending in the next 2 years. The best thing they can do is hang onto him and if he’s having a good season in 2023 deal him in-season to a team desperate for a good-hitting LF and get some young pitching back. If not, forget buying out one year of free agency and keep him until his contract expires….if they can afford the money he gets in arbitration.
We look at the contracts the Braves signed with their youngsters (especially the 2 OF’s – Ronald Acuna and Michael Harris). Those players are far better on defense as well as offense than Reynolds, and none demanded an opt-out.
I’ve been writing for months that this is all about Reynolds trying to force a trade – very probably because he’s been on a losing team for the better part of 4 years, and they’re not going to contend in the next few. I’m not impressed with the Pirates youngsters to this point, and don’t blame him at all for wanting to get to a contending team now.
It’s a difficult spot for both him and the team. Again, I think the team should face reality and blink.
All true, Samuel. Its a spotlight PR time for all small market teams and especially Pittsburgh who gets raked over the coals for being cheap. There’s a chance that Pittsburgh wants to send a message that they’re changing…or they want people to perceive they are.
There actually are reasons to sign Reynolds behind his own ability. It’s smart if you’re trying to build a good culture. Call it New Pirates…look…we’re going to be Tampa and win here guys. Reynolds just becomes a beach head for that team concept.
Dock_Elvis;
Not beating a dead horse here, but this is the problem….
Reynolds has already been asked to be a team leader for the youngsters – something that was a bit ridiculous as he was trying to establish himself as a ML player. This year they did the right thing and brought in McCutchen, Santana, Hedges, and Rich Hill. They’re established veterans that can take that on.
I again have to add – the man has been with that team for parts of 4 seasons. Other then on Opening Days, he hasn’t played one meaningful ML game. How much can they ask of him?
If the Pirates were as advanced as the Orioles are, OK. But the Pirates are at least 2 years behind them. What’s worse is that Ben Cherington was hired a year before Mike Elias was with the O’s (both had to build a modern organizational infrastructure from nothing).
Did you watch the Orioles play in 2022? All their players hustle for the manager. They’ve been trained to play smart, fundamental baseball (and they have fun doing it). The Pirates youngsters don’t remotely perform like that.
Look, Cedrick Mullians was the sort of guy with the O’s you want Reynolds to be. But Mountcastle, Hays, Santander and others came up right behind him. Reynolds has Hayes and that’s it. Some players just want to do their job and be a part of a team. But there’s something more important here….
What you’re saying about the situation with Pirates baseball is true. And it’s gone on for decades with a few blips here and there. Dumping that on one or two young players trying to establish themselves is unfair. Mike Elias knew about these considerations this going in as he went about changing a culture. He didn’t put any pressure on one or two players – if anything he built a support system from them to prosper in. Sorry, but I’m not impressed with Ben Cherington and Derek Shelton. That ML team should be much further along than they are.
In particular McCutchen and Santana might be able to help turn the Pirates situation around. But it should have come from the top years ago.
2024 is the realistic goal. Most of the better prospects will be making appearances this season if healthy. even if some don’t pan out, they’re in decent shape. IMO the pitching is the key.. if it doesn’t work this year then they’ll need to put “big money” into it to be a contender just for a wild card in 2024.
Samuel, yep..I did see the Orioles play once im Seattle last year. They had a good vibe. Reminded me of the vibe Felipe Alou got from those Expos teams. They were just missing pieces and development. But they performed very well.
I’m not going to be impressed with Pittsburgh until I see a genuine effort to build a team. If you’re as bad as they have been for as long as they’ve been bad….you should ACCIDENTALLY be getting better by having tonnage of Top 1st round picks.
As far as pressure. I’m not sure it’d be pressure on any player that was worth it. They’d be seeking to lead. And somehow…some way…Reynolds is vet presence. But I don’t my thoughts on that to seem TOO loud. It’s just a minor thing.
The real probable truth is that real stars will typically not negotiate and go to their walk seasons and test free agency. Reynolds is simply above avg. He’d be a nice little piece on a contender. Any better player and we’re probably not having this extension discussion. And I think it speaks a LOT about the Pirates state up to now that there’s so much talk around a player that’s OK…but not astounding. This would be mid level news with moat organizations.
What’s more intriguing is how they approach O’Neil and their other emerging prospects.
Players with opt-outs are tricky to trade. Giancarlo Stanton for instance.
I’m not sure what team would want 8 years on Reynolds. From the player perspective it’s understandable how they want a no-trade triggered if dealt, or atleast a partial no trade. Sign an essential 8 year deal with Pittsburgh then somehow get sent to another bad situation.
It’s kind of curious. Reynolds wouldn’t have been the player to start extensions I wouldn’t think. There’s been a lot of talk for a couple years that Pittsburgh should have already dealt him.
That’s what led me to believe before any figures were ever out that his demands really weren’t rhat astronomical. And fact is with many non-pittsburgh situations there would have been an extension already with a lot less media and fan fanfare.
But dealing with Reynolds sends a message.
8 106. Man am I genius. Everyone should go read the Reynolds articles from the last few months and either apologize or give me a pat on the back. I hope you are all grateful I bless your lil baseball site with my presence.
Opt out after 2027 or even better and more likely 2028 and call it a day. Congratulations Pirate Fans.
How many pats on the back must I give before you demand I buy you dinner, too?
I dunno but I am willing to find out.
Reynolds is looking forward to the contract so he can coast for several years. Buyer beware.
I don’t see him as the coasting type. But he definitely didn’t have any desire to bet on himself the next 3 years.
I’m suspicious of players who want an extension with such insistence – it’s like they know the future performance won’t be as strong. It’s like that favorite protein drink is no longer available.
I can believe that. Just that it will be because of age and declining skill not lack of effort.
Some people really don’t want to be concerned about money, and they want the security. 108M is life changing money. It’s not the megastar deal. But it’s a check box off in life. Perhaps it seems odd a player would WANT to stay on Pittsburgh at all.
In some ways Reynolds was the right player to call the Pirates bluff. He’s not a star, and they can’t really say they couldn’t afford him.
The legit question is whether he falls on their timeline with their prospects.
But cool…send a message to your long-suffering fans that atleast you’re not packing another player out. But I’d say the odds are very decent he still gets dealt. I’d for sure deal him for MLB ready talent a little more in line with where the organization is at.
There’s also a chance Pittsburgh has belief they’re ahead of schedule. I won’t doubt for a second they outplay their 2023 projections. They have some pieces.
When they say “it’s not about the money”…it’s always…about the money..
So you are saying that the Pirates will win more than 65-66 games?
I put a large endorsement on them winning more than 64 and a half.
If he don’t act soon, Ryan Reynolds will be Deadpool to ye Pirate faithful. Chum as it were. Yaaarr!
If this is really only 1 extra year, I don’t see the upside for the Pirates. Just leave it as is, let arbitration dictate his value, and trade in a couple years (or sooner if they get a good offer).
With the new contract, if he is good, he walks. If he isn’t, Bucks holding the water.
Just tell him to go play and see you next off season at the hearing.
Just negotiating. They likely settle on a later opt out or something else beneficial to player.
Might not be the message to send the players as prospects arrive. Not if you’re wanting to create a relationship atmosphere where longterm extensions are part of your economic game plan with young stars. At SOME point to be successful Pittsburgh will have to utilize that model as efficiently as other successful small market clubs do.
Every day he plays in a Pirates uniform, the lower his trade value becomes regardless of his performance. He is closer to FA in 4 months than he is today so he is worth less. At the end of the season cut that some more. Next season’s trade deadline? Even more.
True. But teams didn’t sound willing to pay for his value so only think you are doing is taking injury performance risk.
Odds say he is extended. You don’t get this close and not close the deal. Fight it out for either a 2027 or 2028 opt out. 2028 is fair but could go 27 29.
Teams were not willing to pay what the Pirates were asking for meaning his value is already less than the Pirates think it is.
I don’t have the information to know if that is true or not.
Yes you do. Reynolds is still playing for the Pirates. If other teams were willing to pay what the Pirates wanted he would be playing elsewhere.
Nope not enough information
It is for anyone with even a smidgen of common sense. Too much Jamaican ganja for you it seems like
And at the same time, the Pirates are a better team because of his skills. And therein lies the tradeoff. Which is more valuable to the club – his skills or his marketability?
Which is more important to the Pirates. Only losing 95 games with him or losing 100 without him?
Yeah, giving him an opt-out after 2026 would defeat the purpose of an extension from the Pirates’ point of view. They already control hum through 2025 with no extension.
They don’t control how much he will cost in arbitration. Don’t let the $6.75 million he is being paid for 2023 on his current team friendly 2 year deal fool you into thinking he will be cheap going forward. 2024 is being projected at $15-17 million. 2025 at $21-23 million. If his 2023 production is somewhere between 2021 and 2022, you should bet on the higher number. If its only as good as 2022, those lower numbers are still huge for Nutting
A 150% raise on his 2023 salary? Not sure he gets there. Either way, I don’t see a player who is still in arb as being a burden to any team. Even at $23m he’s still worth more than what you’d get if you spent that in free agency. If my last statement were not true he would be non-tendered.
Its not based on his current salary, its based on his performance compared to other players in the same arbitration class, meaning 1st year, 2nd year, etc…
This site’s algorithm has him earning $15-17 million in arbitration next season and $21-23 million the following season. He be a FA after 2025 and if he continues to perform at his average the last 3 full seasons, he will get much more than $21-23 million AAV on his next deal.
They most certainly take a player’s current salary into account in arbitration. It’s why you often see player and team squabble over seemingly small amounts. But I truly don’t care what a player makes in arb because 1. It’s a one year deal and 2. If he isn’t worth that you can non-tender him. Not that the Pirates would do that with Reynolds but it is an option.
They would if he had not signed a multi-year deal that included an arbitration season.
Since he did, they will take into account a few of the players stats and then compare those to other players in his arbitration class. Go read the CBA as to how arbitration is decided.
That is why all the projections for his arbitration case in the 2023-2024 offseason put it at $15-17 million. That then puts him at $20+ million for 2025.
If not from Reynolds, where are the Pirates getting his production in 2023-25 for less money?
What are we doing talking about this? The deadline was yesterday. Deals simply can’t happen after a deadline.
So Reynolds was saying if Nutting continues to Nutting and you still suck in 2025, I want the ability to get the F out of here?
Paraphrasing, but accurate
I took it as if I am still good I want the ability to make even more $. Awful ran teams like San Diego give out these options so why can’t you? He probably gets a opt out but in 2027 2028 for years the Pirates never wanted in the first place.
Then he won’t actually opt out and asking for the opt-out at all would be pointless.
Awful run teams don’t make the playoffs two out of 3 years.
Sure they do. Just out spend other teams.
Padres are profitable and winning. That is not “awful ran”. What is awful is your take.
Giving players opt outs that greatly benefit the player. That Machado opt out was costly. Clevinger trade. Nola trade. Bogaerts signing. Thankfully other free agents turned down what would have been bad deals.
Not picking on SD. They are just an example of what not to do. If PIT gives Reynolds a 2025 26 opt out I will call it a awful contract.
After 5 seasons it cost the Padres how much? $1 million per season? Costly? GTFOH.
Having one home playoff game is worth half of Machado’s annual salary. 2 pay it completely. Win a WS and you can pay for two of Pittsburgh’s entire 2023 payroll with some millions left over just from the post season money alone.
The Padres are showing that what they are doing is PROFITABLE. Their CEO came out before this season started and publicly said that they did not lose money last season and won’t in 2023. That says volumes about how well their approach is working.
If Pittsburgh doesn’t give Reynolds an opt out he wont extend there and will be playing for someone else in 2026. The Pirates will continue to do what they do. Pad Nutting’s wallet and lose 90-100 games. 4 winning seasons in 30 years says it all.
I don’t blame Reynolds one bit. Would you want to sign a deal for far below market value and then continue to play for a losing team in front of 15k fans a game or play on a winning team in front of 40k a game? What he is offering the Pirates by agreeing to take an under market contract is the opportunity for the team to go out and sign other FA to help them WIN. If they show over the next 3 seasons that they won’t do that, then he should be able to get the F out of Dodge.
The track record of opt-out clauses say they eliminate all the upside in the contract for the team while eliminating none of the downside. People will say that he will opt in if the team is competing but besides Nolan Arenado, I can’t think of one player who actually did that. And it hasn’t been for lack of opportunity.
From what we’ve seen from Reynolds side of the negotiations, its likely the opt-out is for the purpose of cashing in for 25M a year, if he has 4 very good years. It MAY also be that he wants Pirates to compete, but he’s not content with a mere 13.25M a year
“Reynolds is willing to backload the deal so that triggering his opt-out means walking away from the biggest salaries.”
When a player opts out of their contract, is it immediately torn up with no further financial obligation?
Let’s make this official and get a few more ticket sales before the home opener.
Lol..I’ve sat at PNC with a legit crowd you could manually count with him absolutely raking…Bryan Reynolds for sure probably makes his family excited when he comes to bat. But there were precious few in Pittsburgh who have taken much notice. Absolutely sad because Pittsburgh is an amazing baseball town when they get any reason to show up. And that park is outstanding. Put a winner in there.
Pirate fans only seem to come out when team is playoff contender. Reynolds extension might give a few hope. I predict increased attendance this year. Definitely not as high or close to 2013 to 2016 numbers.
I’ll be at the home opener, as always. I hope you go, too. The Pirates need as many passionate fans as possible. Saw two weeks of spring training this year in Bradenton, instead of just one. I live over 300 miles from Pittsburgh and still get to 8-10 games per year. I can’t understand why more local folks don’t get out to the ballpark. It’s such a great park. I am mid 60’s and retired, so that helps.
Pittsburgh has truly amazing baseball fans. They’re around there. They just don’t have the attendance padding of trendy/tourists that a team like the Cubs gets. I’ve been there 4 different times over the years and every time it’s great fans.
I’m of the belief that most teams have about the same % of solid baseball fans…it’s just that some teams gave grossly larger casual followings.
As far as coming out for a contender. I don’t blame fans for not showing up. A solid fan might show their feelings by NOT showing up for garbage.
Absolutely gorgeous ballpark. Love attending games there. What is sad is showing up on game day and being able to buy a ticket behind home plate in the lower bowl. Right now you can get a seat for the home opener in section 12 just a couple rows from the field. That is just sad.
Nutting is more concerned with padding his wallet than fielding a team that would draw large numbers of fans. He is receiving as much in revenue sharing as he is spending on payroll and is pocketing million.. All Pirates fans should be incredibly angry at that man and his insatiable greed.
mlb.tickets.com/?agency=MLB_MPV&orgid=7&…
Its insane that really, really good seats just 12 rows back from the field behind the dugout are still available for the Pirates home opener. Padres sold out the day single game tickets went on sale.
I watched the Oakland opener. That place was all kinds of empty…even not counting the football seats and upper deck. Padres are living the competitive demand. Lose and they’ll go back go solid crowds but not sell outs.
But those crazy loud Oakland fans showed up. In the OF. Love it.
@ Dream GM – Are you going?
Nope. Only a Pirate fan because I live in the Caribbean, don’t pay for music, and just about everyone slept and is yet again sleeping on this team. Great ballpark. Anyone within 1000 miles should spend 3 nights in Pittsburgh any time their team plays the Pirates.
As others have mentioned, this sounds like BS by Reynolds. If you are going to sign with the Pirates, or several other small revenue teams, you have to accept that you are never going to be favored for a WSC.