The Reds declined their club option on franchise icon Joey Votto yesterday. In a statement from GM Nick Krall yesterday on the move, he emphasized that he didn’t believe that the necessary at-bats would be available to Votto in 2024 for him to remain with the team, seemingly indicating that the odds of the sides getting together on a smaller deal were remote. That being said, per MLB.com’s Mark Sheldon and Charlie Goldsmith of The Cincinnati Enquirer, neither side is shutting the door on a potential reunion just yet.
“I’m not closing the door on anything,” Krall said (as relayed by Sheldon), “I just think with the players we have on our roster right now, there’s no playing time [for Votto]… It would be tough to have him as just a pinch-hitter bat off the bench with the way our roster is constructed right now.” Krall went on to acknowledge that it will be “tough to watch” if Votto winds up playing in another uniform next year after departing the Reds.
It’s easy to see what Krall means regarding the club’s crunch for roster space on the positional side. Jonathan India, Elly De La Cruz, Matt McLain, Spencer Steer, Christian Encarnacion-Strand, and Noelvi Marte are all big-league ready infielders who ought to be in line for everyday at bats in 2024, meaning that group’s playing time will surely bleed into the outfield and DH slot, where the likes of TJ Friedl, Jake Fraley, and Will Benson also figure to play on a regular basis, to say nothing of players like Stuart Fairchild and Nick Senzel who could also be in line for at-bats. Given the club’s excess of positional talent, it’s hard to see where Votto could fit in for Cincinnati barring a hypothetical trade that clears some of the club’s positional logjam.
For Votto’s part, he seems to hold no ill will against the Reds over the decision. “At 40 years old, a team that’s about to be a championship-caliber team didn’t pick up the option of a guy who hit .200 in back-to-back seasons,” Votto told reporters, including Goldsmith. Goldsmith added that Votto, like Krall, did not want to close the door on a potential return to Cincinnati next year despite becoming a free agent for the first time in his career.
More from around MLB’s Central divisions…
- Tigers president of baseball operations Scott Harris spoke to reporters (including Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press and Chris McCosky of The Detroit News) yesterday regarding the club’s acquisition of veteran outfielder Mark Canha from the Brewers. During the conference, Harris noted that the addition of Canha checks the box of “adding a right-handed bat that helps [Detroit] on and off the field” in 2024. As Harris alluded to, Canha’s right-handed bat will serve as an excellent complement to an all-lefty outfield of Kerry Carpenter, Parker Meadows, Akil Baddoo, and Riley Greene while also affording fellow righty hitter Matt Vierling more opportunities to play at third base. Harris also praised the ability of Canha, 35 in February, to mentor the club’s young roster as a “high-character” player whose calling card is his superlative plate discipline, with strikeout and walk rates that are well above the league average. For Canha’s part, McCosky notes that the veteran praised the team’s young core, saying that “A team is never as far away from where they want to be as it feels like. All it takes is a little nudge.”
- The White Sox parted ways with longtime shortstop Tim Anderson yesterday, adding shortstop to a list of positions that need to be filled this offseason that already includes right field, catcher, and second base. MLB.com’s Scott Merkin relays that shortstop prospect Colson Montgomery, who is expected to be the club’s long-term solution at short, has his sights set on making the club’s Opening Day roster in 2024. “I’m confident I could have that spot, but you never know,” Montgomery said regarding the Opening Day shortstop job, “As a competitor and as a baseball player, you want to push yourself… I’m going to chase for it.” Montgomery entered the 2023 season as a consensus top-40 prospect in the sport and .287/.456/.484 in 64 games this games this year while advancing to Double-A.
Twins will happily send a pitcher who will be injured for the next two years for steer or encarnacian-strand back!
Win some-lose some
The world of difference is Tigers weren’t planning on contending last year where Cincy looks to contend next year. No room for a 40 year old player who can only play first base, hits around .200 and is slow afoot.
The Reds did the right thing. Both sides said the right thing. And I still can’t stand it. I never want Joey to go. Hope he’s back. Idk how it works out but idc. I’ll never stop hoping he walks off a playoff field if not WS field in a reds uni saying good by.
I’m not even a Reds fan and I feel the same.
Yeah, I’m a Cards fan and I 100% agree with you on Votto. It would have been super weird to see Yadi in another uniform before he retired, and it would be almost as weird to see Votto in another one too.
I feel ya, Mikey. Not HoF’ers but I couldn’t imagine guys on the Yankees like Posada, Bernie, and Gardner playing in a different uni before they retired. Votto is handling this with class all the way through just like his career.
I wonder if he’ll join the front office in a special assistant role or as a roving instructor.
I’m a Red Sox fan and a huge Votto fan, and I don’t want to see him in another uniform. Just an iconic player. If he does want to stick around, man, I’d love to have him in Boston. We haven’t had a player with a presence like Votto since Big Papi.
A world of difference compared with how the Tigers sent off Miguel Cabrera. This was cold.
Miggy knew he wanted to retire a year ahead of time, and hadn’t been as good in 7 years as Joey was just a couple of years ago. Miggy was an icon but Joey was and still is to some degree a contributing player.
Votto is perfect for Tampa. He is the type of guy who goes there and squeezes out 2.5 extra years of surprisingly good production.
What really sucks is how much time he missed due to injury throughout his career. His counting stats aren’t close to whats required for the Hall but he’s definitely one of the top guys in his generation.
If he latches on to a team with a culture known for revitalization of vets, then maybe he can get 400 more hits and 34 more homeruns and get into the Hall. That type of team is not in Cincinnati.
Votto is already in the Hall.
I’d rather give #19 AB’s than Fairchild or Senzel!
At this point, Canha is better than Votto.
Both that comment, and you, are a joke.
You could have just disagreed with the comment, No need to attack personally.
I love Votto. I hope he comes back. Fact is that this team needs a veteran AND some pop. Votto brings both. He had good power numbers before he rushed back at the end of the season. Who else can they bring in that is a good veteran presence with pop? JD Martinez? Might as well just have Votto back.
I understand he wants to play everyday. I don’t think anyone is going to give that to him. Hopefully the Reds trade Jonathan India and Votto can come back.
So if they trade India, who will he play over? Strand, Steer, McClain, Marte, De La Cruz? Even Martini looked like he deserves some ABs. I get wanting Votto on the team. Its just not as simple as moving only one player. Its also money that won’t be used for the pitching they need.
They should have money for Votto AND pitching. But it would fix things quite a bit. Votto could play 1B/DH with CES. McLain plays 2B, De La Cruz SS (even though I think he’s better at 3B), Marte at 3B. Steer plays in LF. Friedl is in CF with Fraley and Benson in RF. I would consider trading Fraley or Benson since they both only hit RHP.
Marte is better at short than Elly. I think Marte eventually is the Red’s SS.
I disagree. Elly is a heckuva SS and needs to stay there. Don’t let small sample sizes affect your thinking.
I agree that the Reds would be crazy to trade EDLC. You don’t trade a generational talent because he had an uneven rookie year. The power is elite. The arm is elite. The speed is elite.
However, you also do not move an elite talent from SS to CF. His range and his arm, at the most important position in baseball, are prodigious. I like India, and yes he does provide some leadership, but his bat and his D are merely average. Considering the talent around him, he doesn’t have an infield position and doesn’t hit enough to be a corner OFr or DH.
As for those who say that the Reds were only good for two months I’d say this: the rookies came up after April, spread over a few months. The best of the bunch, McLain got hurt and missed significant time (89 games played). Other top rookies and their games played: EDLC (98), CES (63), Marte (35). “Vets” limited in game’s played due to injury: Fraley (111), India (119), Votto (65). Pitchers limited to starts due to injury or in season call ups: Ashcraft (26), Greene (22), Lodolo (7), Williamson (23), Abbott (21). This is why the team didn’t make the playoffs.
And anyone thinking that a couple of starting pitcher additions at the trade deadline would’ve made a difference is fooling themselves. The rotation AND the batting lineup was in tatters by August. You don’t spend money on Band-Aids when the patient is bleeding to death.
This was in response to hiflew further below …
The Reds have all of 2 cents contributed to next year’s payroll. They can afford Votto and pitching. As for where, he’ll play, someone always gets injured – every team uses 60 guys a year.
Cue the Votto to the Blue Jays rumors. Brandon Belt did nothing for the Jays, maybe Votto will have better luck
Saying Belt did nothing for the Jays seems a little harsh. He had a .254/.369/.490 slash line with a 136 OPS+ and 19 bombs in about 400 plate appearances. Not saying it’s a world changer but certainly more than nothing. Let’s have some perspective here.
Don’t bother with Mr. Negative.
Did nothing? Belt was brought in to face righties, and he mashed against them. 41 xbh in 365 plate appearances is pretty darn good.
As a Jays fan who loves Votto, I would hate that. He belongs in a Reds uniform only. Toronto just watched a bunch of veterans strongly associated with other teams form a collection of players that didn’t feel like a team. Belt was really good this year and Toronto fans didn’t appreciate it. They wouldn’t appreciate Votto any better.
How many of those veterans were Canadien? How many were born, raised and did all their schooling in Toronto? Just saying.
If I had to watch Joey in another uni I’d hope for him it’s the Jays, they win, and he excels for them. But what I have no clue about is if the Jays have a need for a lefty DH/1B part time guy. Any Jays fan able to share?
Mikey, as a Jays fan, they have quite a few position player needs this offseason. Not many teams need a DH/1B guy, but they do need offense of a certain shape. Votto at his best is the kind of plate approach that it would be nice to see on the team. Though it was kind of frustrating this past season that some of the more patient batters who get on base via walks like Belt and Kirk were station to station baserunners. With Votto, if the walks are more of a byproduct of being selective and hunting pitches to drive over the wall or for extra bases (still seemed to be the case this year), they could fit it in but that would depend on what other moves they make. I think the team values that skillset given the way they’ve drafted and the minor leaguers they gave looks to in the majors this year. I suspect they might address the diamond first and then see if there are particular skill sets missing to complement those moves with. Kind of like last year when they used some extra budget room to get Belt near the end of the offseason.
Sad day in Cincy. It was going to happen, needed to happen but still sucks.
Best of luck to Joey the red
The Cubs could always sign temporarily broken down SP Shohei Ohtani and utilize him as their DH for the length of his next contract. 🙂
Christopher Morel would still be an option for 1B, 3B, OF or as their swiss army knife in 2024. Of course, rumour has it that Morel might be a Padres target in a potential Juan Soto trade which just might provide his best overall value for the Cubs.
Aaron, is that you? Are you back?
Never left, Mike. 🙂
I simply adopted my go-to social media persona here on my favorite site.
Why not just wait til ’25 when Soto will only cost money, not prospects? I wouldn’t give value to get one year of Adam Dunn 2.0, but that’s why you’re a Cubs fan.
You just compared Soto to Adam Dunn. How stupid are you?
Occasionally a team will roll the dice on an impact pending free agent with the idea they could sign him to a long term extension before he hits the open market. It has worked in the recent past with the example of Mookie Betts signing an extension with the Dodgers after acquiring him from the Red Sox. Juan Soto might be a longer shot with Scott Boras as his agent but you never know. Ultimately it’s up to the player to make the final decision.
It may be an “apples and oranges” comparison but the Chicago Bears recently acquired edge rusher Montez Sweat at the NFL trade deadline. He was in the final year of his rookie contract and set to become an unrestricted free agent in the offseason. Many Bears fans were complaining about the team forfeiting a second round draft pick but most of that criticism waned when Sweat was inked to a contract extension within the same week as his acquisition.
Joey Votto would be a good looking Left handed bat in an Orioles uniform!!!
Maybe. Wouldn’t be bad in a Sox jersey either if the price were right. Too bad Joey hit free agency a year too late or he would have gotten a 10 year deal from Preller in San Diego
Sad but true…..
Why is it sad? Lol
The Padres would have needed a loan
Being a reds fan, Joey is awesome but at this point with the young guys and a 20 mill contract for a guy who hit 200. It don’t make sense. Hope he comes back, but if he goes the Jays would be great for him. Thanks for all the years Joey.
Colson Montgomery is going to be a stud.
Did the ChiSox trade him yet?
The Reds should be thinking about trading at least two of their infielders for pitching even without Votto. There is not enough playing time to go around and all six of these guys are good enough that sitting on the bench will cause ego issues and bad feelings. Better to just pick out the four you think will work the best together and start them EVERY GAME. That is why the Braves are so good. Guys learn to play through slumps and nagging injuries and become better players because of it.
I think their best infield would be Steer, India, McLain, Marte. Elly is exciting, but McLain looks like the better player to me. India is your leader. At the corners, it is really a toss up. I chose Elly and CES as the ones to trade because I think they would bring back the most without really losing much. Trading Elly to a SS-needy team could bring you back two quality starting pitchers or one starter and a couple of relievers. I guess you could keep CES as a DH, but I am more of a fan of using the DH as a rotational position to give your regulars a day off without really getting a day off.
Can Votto and trade Elly then enjoy A’s attendance. Good idea.
Fine . Then trade McLain, but I doubt the return would be as good. The point is that they have too many infielders and need to improve the pitching staff.
McLain might have more value then Elly right now. Ellys ceiling is obviously unmatched, but McLain seems already proven to be at or near all star level with his bat n versatility around the infield.
You know absolutely nothing about this team, talent, or baseball in general. Please, just go to sleep. And, when you wake up, go to church and repent for incarnating as a human.
I take it that the meds aren’t working out real well.
They wont and shouldn’t trade EDLC. Make him a CF is possible. CES at 1st/DH, and he will hit.
India with his average offense and below average defense doesn’t win a WS.
Pitching needs Health to get innings to get experience.
Nothing in FA will be worth the $$, but I hope they sign that top SP from Japan.
If they deal India, I guarantee they will have a worse record next year unless they add some serious pitching, which I doubt Po Boy will do.
It isn’t always about stats.
If they don’t spend $80 million dollars on pitching, they are likely to have a worse record. The Reds were 10 games under .500 in the final two months of 2023 with an 5.91 Team ERA. The team had two good months last season.
Exactly. Anyone that thinks anything past July was anything but a front office failure is fooling themselves.
Everyone had them dead last in’23. There wasn’t one single failure last season, not one. Including selling great talent for pitching that proved in the long run would never have put them over the top. While some people are content with making the playoffs, such as yourself, others still realize the ultimate goal, which is a World Championship. Remember I said this.
They can’t do that if they never make the playoffs before they have to start selling off pieces. You have to make the playoffs to have the chance to win a World Series Championship. Imagine that! Those opportunities don’t some around too often for a small market team, so you have to take advantage of them when they occur.
The rest of the teams in the division won’t be sitting on their hands regarding acquiring experienced major league talent like Po Boy always does.
We have seen this act before from this team when they finally get some talent together. Several times.
Remember I said this.
How could I forget you said it, it’s the same thing you spew every day. They have just under 48 mill on the books for next season. Mortimer, I will bet you one US dollar, that when all is said and done, the go over 100 mill this offseason!
I was right last offseason that they would do nothing to win an NL Central that was there for the taking.
Let them prove me wrong this offseason. I’ll be the first one to cheer.
Let’s get real. No one on this team is likely to win a WS with the Reds. But that doesn’t mean they can’t still be successful. Only one out of 30 teams win the WS each year. It doesn’t make everyone else a failure.
Apparently, they haven’t let you out of the hospital from bumping your head yet. Trade Elly, or for that matter CES?! My God, that’s absolutely ridiculous!
Agreed. They need to hang on to the position players they have for a while.
They can add pitching by spending some of that 80 million they have under their payroll of a few years ago.
Agree. Get some relief pitching and maybe a middle of the rotation starter via free agency. . The Reds have several top rated starters almost ready, so don’t panic and trade your position players just yet.
They really need to get a veteran ace to teach Greene and Lodolo how to pitch. Pitch, not throw.
Otherwise just pitch them in the same game since you are only getting 3-4 innings out of them anyway. Less taxing the bullpen that way.
Montgomery has some impressive numbers. He’d look good at the top of any lineup. How is his glove work regarded?
So what you’re saying is he will play at SS for 6 years or more for the White Sox, because they don’t look for D out of the SS position.
The White Sox have never understood or appreciated defense period. This is the team that made their first base prospect who had never played in AA their Opening Day left fielder.
It is true though that McLain and Marte are better players right now. That doesn’t mean Elly can’t get better but he has failed to make the needed adjustments thus far.
He will respond like either Aquino or Benson did, depending on the way he handles it. I hope it is the latter.
I think Elly will have a good career. But he definitely needs to be more selective at the plate. By the time he figures it out, he will be hitting arbitration and we all know what happens when players start to earn real money in Cincinnati.
I agree. And in a vacuum, Elly would not be the guy I would trade. But they have too many players right now and not enough pitching. One of those three or India needs to be traded. I think India is the best leader for the Reds (especially with Votto departing) and is far more valuable to the Reds than to any other team. Of the other three, I just think Elly is the best combo of getting the best return and being replaced on the roster from within.
It is a gamble, and could be a HUGE mistake, but you won’t get better as a team if you don’t take risks occasionally. Personally I think trading India is a far bigger gamble from a leadership perspective.
Time will tell on Elly. He has too much raw talent to trade. They need to try to finish developing him.
Why? They don’t have the at bats for him to develop in Cincy. SOMEONE has to go. Why not trade the raw talent with all the hype that will probably net you a top of the rotation starter or possibly even more?
“I’m not closing the door on anything,” Krall said (as relayed by Sheldon), “I just think with the players we have on our roster right now, there’s no playing time [for Votto]”
——
Door closed.
Not saying this is true but it’s possible the Reds will be working on trading from their infield surplus this offseason.
With so many parents forcing their kids to hit left handed, eventually righties will be more sought after.
Most parents will wind up with kids who started as mediocre right hand hitters mature into bad left handed hitters. Parents who mess with kids’ natural abilities in pursuit are what they think are better job opportunities years later are just courting disaster.
Watch Senzel get cut and wind up in Cubs camp.
Nothing destroys a young hitter’s confidence, like playing in 40 degree rain for two months and hitting .157
Along with the White Sox, the Cubs, Tigers, Twins and Indians should never call up rookies until the end of May.
Oh, that Montgomery.
Cards and whitesox should pair up. Something involving edman for cease, of course with other parts to make it work
Edman is not even close to a starting point for Cease. He’d be a secondary piece. Pitching is expensive and rentals are discounted.
Why not let the young SS take the reigns? It’s not like the Sox are going to win anything next year anyway. They may not want to admit it, but they need to rebuild again.
If he is not ready for the majors, you could ruin the kid’s confidence. The worst thing you can do to a prospect is rush him. You want him for the next decade, not necessarily for 2024 though.
Mark this: Brian Cashman will give Joey Votto a one-year deal.
Dang there are a lot of dumb reds fans
– reasonably realistic reds fan
If Votto wants to play in 2024, some team will sign him. Eventually, I believe Joey will become available (cheaply) for the Reds to add for a September syonara.