The free agency of infielder Jeimer Candelario concluded in surprising fashion recently, with the Reds agreeing to terms with him despite a pre-existing infield logjam. Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer recently took a look at the club’s situation in a pair of columns, noting that the club expects Candelario to play some second base but also that his signing doesn’t increase the chances of Jonathan India being traded.
Candelario has spent his entire major and minor league career playing first and third base, but never at the keystone. His only experience at that position, according to his Baseball Reference page, was two innings of work during winter ball in the 2020-2021 season of the Dominican Professional Baseball League. Despite that lack of experience, the Reds may be willing to put him there in order to maximize versatility. President of baseball operations Nick Krall also recently said that India could perhaps see some time at first.
As Wittenmyer points out, despite the apparent embarrassment of riches on the Cincinnati infield, Candelario and India are the only ones with more than a year of major league experience. Spencer Steer debuted in 2022 but he seems ticketed for a full-time move to the outfield. Each of Matt McLain, Elly De La Cruz, Noelvi Marté and Christian Encarnacion-Strand debuted in 2023. That could still qualify as a surplus since they all looked to be in fairly good form in 2023, to varying degrees, but it’s also within the realm of possibility that someone in that group ends up enduring some kind of sophomore slump. Then there’s the ever-present possibility of a significant injury completely changing the calculus.
The focus on playing multiple positions should help the club overcome any such development. Candelario can take the corners and perhaps second base as well, if such a move is required. India could be at second and maybe first base will be a possibility as well. McLain can take either middle infield spot while De La Cruz and Marté have spent significant time at the positions on the left side, with brief stints at second base as well. Encarnacion-Strand is mostly a first baseman but has appeared at third base and in the outfield corners.
The Reds are still on the hunt for some pitching, and might end up pulling the trigger on a deal that subtracts from this group. They’ve had interest in pitchers like Tyler Glasnow, Shane Bieber and Dylan Cease, none of whom will be just given away by their current club. In terms of leverage in trade negotiations involving those players, it would be in the best interest of Krall and his club to portray themselves as not being motivated to make a trade. But there’s also logic to having extra depth and letting a meritocracy distribute the playing time as the season rolls along.
India was already viewed by some observers as expendable even before Candelario was added into the mix. With this news that Candelario might spend some time at the keystone, that would seem to only make him more redundant but Wittenmyer relays that both players are in Cincy’s plans for 2024.
Wittenmyer also notes that the Yankees were in on Candelario before they finalized the Juan Soto deal. Once that trade was completed, it allowed the Reds to take the lead with Candelario. That would perhaps suggest the Yanks had some willingness to bump DJ LeMahieu into a utility role or perhaps then put Gleyber Torres on the trading block. But after the club got the offensive boost they were looking for by remaking their outfield with the additions of Soto, Trent Grisham and Alex Verdugo, manager Aaron Boone announced that LeMahieu would man the hot corner for them in 2024.
Samhaggertyplayoffhero
Send Marte back to Seattle
Bobcastelliniscat
Ok send Castillo back to Cincinnati. I would make that deal despite losing his services for a year and a half.
Dbird777
One Kirby, please.
Zippy the Pinhead
Ain’t happening.
Jake Biggar
This signing makes literally zero sense. But now that they’ve done it, I’d be really trying to move for a Logan Gilbert or someone good and controllable with all the young infielders you have to move.
myaccount2
Gilbert almost assuredly won’t move this winter. Maybe next offseason the tune will change, but pretty much every member of the local media has reported that it would have to be a massive overpay to the level of which nobody in their right minds would offer to move Gilbert or Kirby this offseason.
hoof hearted
stop with the Logan Gilbert stuff. he’s not going anywhere. how would you replace his stuff? with an expensive free agent. not happening
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
He’s as good as gone. -Jerry DiPoto
swagsuperawesomeepiccoolman123
reds fans try not to mention a Logan Gilbert trade for 1 second (99.99% impossible)
Zippy the Pinhead
Logan Gilbert isn’t going anywhere. Next.
earmbrister
No, this signing makes perfect sense. They signed the fifth best positional player in free agency as per MLBTR. The guy has raked for three of the last four years and is a doubles machine. This makes more sense than trying to fit square peg in round hole (like trying to make an outfielder out of Jorge Soler – all bat no glove).
Keep the prospects, sign Lugo or Wacha for 2-3 years, and trade them earlier if all of the young pitching talent develops.
pohle
what about the fact that they have seven good square pegs, for four starting infield spots, and a max of six infield roster spots
earmbrister
Steer was already being moved to the OF starting last year. 4 IF spots + 1 DH = 5 starters. 5 starters + 1 backup = the 6 players that they have.
This will be a very good lineup, unlike recent years where there were three or more dark holes in the lineup.
Atloriolesfan
There’s a problem with Reds fans Cease and Gilbert scenarios. My team has Norby, Westburg and Joey Ortiz to trade. All are established AAA guys with near .900 OPS in AAA. The Reds have no one with those credentials. They can’t outbid Mike Elias in an IF prospect deal and there are no Gunnar Hendersons or Jackson Hollidays in the Reds system. Both teams are looking for SP. The Reds don’t stack up.
Larry Brown's crank
Orioles fan…this quite possibly could be the most ridiculous post ever. you have NO idea what prospects the reds have. you have NO idea what other teams want to trade for. and there’s 30 teams looking for pitching, not just two. I can’t believe the ignorance that you voluntarily spewed out to the world. how the hell can YOU predict what prospects may or may not be better than others? incredible
Zippy the Pinhead
R e l a x. It’s a rumor website,
BrianStrowman9
@Atl
The Reds can stack up with the O’s. They have every bit of the infield depth that we have. The only difference is that all of the top guys the Reds have already debuted.
The question is what each team is willing to trade in a deal. .I don’t think Henderson or Holliday would ever be available. i don’t think De La Cruz or McLain would be available.
Are you telling me that Marté is worse than Westburg? I wouldn’t make that argument. Steer is more valuable than Norby or Ortiz. O’s have Mayo as well though. I’d def take him over CES.
Both teams have the goods. I don’t believe anyone else in baseball can go toe to toe with the Reds or O’s in infield talent.
99CaptainJudge99
Until the Yankees found out it will take $90 million dollars to resign Juan Soto.
rotofool
Unless Soto can pitch, he won’t make half of $90M a year.
99CaptainJudge99
@rotofool- Ok, just as long as you are sure, keep in mind he’s still only 25 years old. $90 million for 12 years($75 million a year seems about right)
whyhayzee
Interesting math.
99CaptainJudge99
*$900 mill, happy now? Smh
Gasu1
**$450M
***$20M
Gasu1
It might take $90M; but would that really be $45M, or would it be $2M?
Biggie22
Reds need to trade from the surplus.. I’d love us to target Lane Thomas from the Nats & Edward Cabrera from the Marlins & then be done & get ready for Spring training…
PattheBat
Stop rationalizing. Move was dumb
This one belongs to the Reds
Candelario play second? Have they learned nothing from the Moose fiasco? They got him to play out of position at second too, if you will recall.
earmbrister
Your memory is fading. The Brewers converted Moustakas into a second baseman and THEN the Reds played him there. However, I’m sure you know more than Craig Counsell (who just happened to play more than 4,400 at the keystone in MLB). Moustakas, btw, had a .996 fielding % (-1 Rtot) over 613 innings at 2B, so he WAS a competent second baseman.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Remember when the Reds tried to play Eugenio Suarez at shortstop?? Yeah that didn’t go very well either.
Joel P
Really not a fan of the Reds offseason so far. I do think they have the pieces needed for a Cease trade. A trade for an outfielder would make sense too. They are spending which is good to see but I don’t like the way they have spent so far.
Bobcastelliniscat
I am OK with Pagan and Martinez if they both are slated for the bullpen. I’m not a fan of putting Martinez in the rotation. That is the Reds again being cheap.
I am not in favor of paying $45 million dollars for a 1B-DH. The Reds can always be counted on for making the same mistake over and over.
earmbrister
Yo Garfield. You’re not in favor of paying $45 million for a 1B-DH (who also is an even better 3B)? Why, do you think they should’ve paid him $70MM over 4 years ($17.5MM AAV) vs the $45MM over 3 years that MLBTR projected he would get? He’s an above average switch hitter with power with fairly even splits.
The Reds lineup just got much better.
Big whiffa
I’m absolutely thrilled with the reds offseason to this point as I compare what they are doing to the ignorant decisions they made in the past and not what other big league clubs are doing or what they are capable of. I want to see my team make better decisions and they are doing that + plus article (a fluff article tbh) reads well – like I hoped. Save and build up a ton of young controllable talent.
Reds always have to over pay for FA. So I’m always happy to see them sign short term role players instead of players with high expectations like Homer Bailey and moose.
Reds are banking the price comes down on one of big 3 pitchers. I see them adding one of them
titanic struggle
Exactly… Sign Snell or Montgomery and call it a winter!
Simm
It’s doesn’t increase the chances of India being traded because they were already at 100%
Bigtimeyankeefan
Dj is sadly washed up
myaccount2
Signing Candelario will be a very good move if they use Marte or Encarnacion-Strand to trade for a controllable arm in order play Candelario at 3B/DH.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Marte & Encarnacion-Strand for Logan Gilbert?
myaccount2
I would hope the M’s get one more B-level piece in that trade given Gilbert’s controllability, but I like the framework. Of course, I think it’s moot because I don’t believe the M’s are ready to move Gilbert.
Ann Porkins
This has mild “Mike Moustakas” contract vibes
Larry Brown's crank
that makes zero sense, 18……thats called paranoia
Big Red Machine
Mmm, at best Candelario is a very expensive India or Votto replacement. At worst, he’s Moustakas. Most likely, he’s what the Reds wanted Moustakas to be (a 6 hole hitter with some pop)
Bobcastelliniscat
Yelp, you are right Cainer18 out of shape infielder and life time .243 hitter.
RichP
I would have preferred the Reds spend their money on a starting pitcher rather than a corner infielder.
Bobcastelliniscat
If they sweetened the pot and offered Sonny Gray another $15 M a year, it would have been a great move. But as usually they Reds low balled him and the Reds are “shocked” when a player signs elsewhere.
Mikey P
I love the reds but they make my head hurt.
920kodiak
Honest question. Why do the Reds always seem intent on switching player’s position. Didn’t they learn with Moose and Senzel. Maybe I am missing something.
Kelland
Positional flexibility is the current name of the game
ECohen
First of all, have any of you seen Candelaria play? He’s a line-drive machine whose numbers (already very good) will improve at GABP. Second, the Reds aren’t done; they’re going to trade some of their surplus of assets for starting pitching; who they trade and how deep in the pool will depend on whether it’s Cease or someone else. Steer is almost certainly going to the OF, but I guess the complaint is ‘the Reds have too many good infielders so why acquire a really good player? It’ll work out; remember that for all their depth, India, McClain, Votto and Encarnacion-Strand all missed time last year.
Bobcastelliniscat
Heard the same garbage about Moose. This dude is a .243 lifetime hitter. Not only is it a waste of money, but it will take at bats away from the rookies. Terrible move. Also to expect better numbers from him because he will play half his games at GABP is a fool’s errand. If that was the case Ken Griffey Jr would have ended his career with 750 home runs.
stymeedone
Candelario is not at the end of his career, like Griffey, Jr. was. For the money spent on Candelario, you could have gotten Lynn, or Gibson for the rotation. By getting Candelario for less than expected, they can now trade an IF for a young pitcher at a reasonable salary. Yes, playing him at 2B would be dumb. Talk to the Tigers about pitching. They can use a 3B.
earmbrister
Candelario won’t be taking at bats away from the rookies. He’ll be taking a bats away from the Kevin Newmans, Nick Senzels, and Jason Voslers of the world. Last year‘s rookies won’t be injury free, and it would be foolish to think that all of them will be productive all year.
He had OPS+s of 137/121/81/119 over the last 4 years, but you want to talk about his career BA. Yeah, he ain’t a singles hitter.
Alan Horn
That is my sentiment as well. 15 million a year seems like a huge over pay considering what he has done previously.. It is shades of the Moose signing all over again. That money would have been much better spent on pitching.
mwig
They could try dangling Elly Mae out there to help bring in a pitcher, but everyone has seen his cards so you would have to box one of our young gun pitchers with him. I just can’t see Elly Mae as being any better than Billy Hamilton was, can hit the ball further when he can hit it but he’ll strike out more often, he can run fast from home to any base but once on he’s a liability when he forgets where he is and gets picked off, can throw as hard as Nolan Ryan but not as accurately! But we won’t let him go till ownership gets all the money out of him that merchandise sales can produce and by then everyone in baseball will know….
Larry Brown's crank
what an idiot….on so many levels.
mwig
Trying to reach the idiot level that you occupy, which is a pretty lofty goal! But I will continue to work at it. I have evaluated baseball players at all levels for close to 50 years and in my opinion Elly has little chance of making a serious. career at this level of ball without a lot and I mean a lot of instruction from qualified instructors which the Cincinnati organization does not have! Cincinnati moves players through the farm system, as quickly as possible while the player can recall what was taught to them in high school or college,or another organization. Elly Mae has seen little instruction from anywhere and will not receive any or very little from this organization. He came in playing on his own talent and everyone has caught up to it.
Larry Brown's crank
whatever point you were attempting, was completely negated with the 1st grade name calling. and by the way…your also qualified to judge coaching levels? you are AMAZING! (please list the major leaguers that you successfully vaulted to the big leagues) …I mean…since you can judge talent in 2/3 of a season….
Big Red Machine
Mwig sounds like the type of guy you would absolutely try to avoid at a party. Looks at generational talent and tries to justify his worthless point of view on why his 250 pound out of shape body believes Elly has no chance in the big leagues even though he was nearly 1+ WAR in his limited rookie year MLB appearances. When I think of trash cans, I will now call them MWIG
Kelland
“pitchers like Tyler Glasnow, Shane Bieber and Dylan Cease, none of whom will be just given away by their current club.”
BUT IF THEY WERE TO BE JUST GIVEN AWAY what teams would they be given away to?????
Bobcastelliniscat
The only one I would want on the list is Cease. The Reds are not interested in Glasnow because he is due $25 million dollars next year. Shane Bieber is not the same pitcher who won the Cy Young award a few years back. The Reds don’t need another sore arm pitcher who is well past his prime.
Larry Brown's crank
well said, Cohen….the central is weak and getting weaker! name a team that can honestly say, “were on the rise” in that division. its there for the taking. be patient, Reds fans. if anyone remembers…Candelario MASHED against the reds last season. the reds went through prolonged offensive slumps at times. remember getting shut out in like 3 games in a row? etc…..hang in there!
ECohen
Larry, ‘Mashed’ doesn’t even come close. First with the Nationals and then a week or two later he’s with the Cubs and just destroyed us. He’s a decent third baseman too and apparently a good team guy. They lost some veteran leadership with Votto gone and this will help some.
mwig
Until we get a coaching staff that can help these players adapt to this level of ball, we are what we are!
178iq
DJ lost his stroke.
Anthony maresca
DJ just may end up being released along with Stanton sometime in 2025. Both look cooked
Gasu1
A weekend in Vegas could help with that.
octavian8
????????? India at first andCandelaria at second? My head just exploded.
AMiCk ĐOGEron
It was a stupid move, but now how do you make the best of it?
To me, Elly and McClain gotta stay. I’d love to see India stay as he’s the team leader. Steer can play OF full time. So that leaves Marte as the most likely trade candidate and his stock is pretty high right now. Trade him and maybe Fraley for a solid middle rotation pitcher. Keep Encarnacion at 1B.
Bobcastelliniscat
The Reds will play Candelario until he drops because they are paying him $15 M a year. Look how long they played Moose when he should have been shown the door. I just hope that in a year or two they won’t have to package him with arroyo or other prized prospect just to get rid of him.
This signing:
1. Wasted money that could have went towards pitching or extending one of the rookies
2. Take at bats away from Marte and CES
3. Makes Steer a full time LF which will be a disaster.
jbryant0693
Votto/Senzel/Newman/Barrero combined for 974 PAs with subpar OPS+ of 84.
Candelario had 576 PAs with OPS+ of 119.
This doesn’t take anything away from Marte and CES. It replaces some of those bad PAs with good, quality PAs. The Reds have enough positional flexibility now that they don’t need to give lots of PAs to traditional OPS challenged utility players like Senzel and Newman, so this is a move to improve the overall quality of PAs.
And yet there are still bad PAs that need to be replaced from that quartet. Having the young players a full year will help and if anything, we need Marte and CES to be healthy and producing every day and providing as many quality PAs as possible.
Wire to wire 2024
Well put
titanic struggle
Couldn’t agree more. Also, spend the money on Snell or Montgomery and call it a winter..
cguy
On target. Candelario good for 2.9 WAR last year. Signing a switchhitting 3WAR FA for $15MM a year is a bargain. Krall did not sign Candelario to fill a gap, but to upgrade PAs and raise the offense to a division contending level.
MVottoP76
Lol you don’t trade a player like Marte for a 3 or 4
cguy
Let’s see, the Yankees had outfielders Judge ($40MM) and Stanton ($32MM) then go out and trade for outfielders Soto ($33MM), Verdugo ($9.2MM) (both to be FA after 2024) and Grisham ($4.9MM) FA after 2025.That’s about $120MM worth of outfielders and designated hitters- but the gripe is that the Reds (whose total payroll is under $90MM) wasted $15 MM on a switchhitting veteran position player ? While the preceeding item is about LA Dodgers deferring $68MM per year on a SINGLE PLAYRS CONTRACT. Baseball has gone plaid.
This one belongs to the Reds
When your team only has spent a max of 120 million and have needed starters who give you innings BADLY for two seasons, yeah, it’s a waste.
Cincyfan85
I’m going to stay optimistic. I am pumped. The Reds are overflowing with young talent. It’s a great time to be a Reds fan.
titanic struggle
Agree Cincy!
SeibuLionsNPB
I’m going to miss Votto playing on the Reds. Maybe he gets signed by someone soon. Not much of a fit for my team but if he was willing to be a part time dh and bench bat, would be nice to have him on the roster
Cincyfan85
By the sounds of things, he wasn’t interested in that role. That’s why things didn’t work out here. Made it a little easier to swallow since he wanted a bigger role. I wanted him to come back to the Reds, but in the same role you’re talking about.
This one belongs to the Reds
I keep hoping he comes back in that role after seeing that’s about all he will get elsewhere. Or he may just retire if that is the case. If so, hope he does TV or radio if not coaching. He has a lot of knowledge that would benefit the next generation.
Frankie Bani
Othani will make 5.6 million monthly,,Soto will be 1.5 monthly
titanic struggle
Who really cares?
Hired Gun 23
84-78…
Cincyfan85
92-70 and win the NL Central
Hired Gun 23
Dig the enthusiasm…
This one belongs to the Reds
Me too. But a whole lot would need to go right with the roster as it stands.
HBan22
I’m really rooting for the Reds and love their young core group of players, but I strongly dislike the Candelario signing for them. The last thing they needed was another infielder, and I could easily see him ending up as a bust for them. He was awful in 2022, and some of his advanced metrics from last season weren’t very promising. I felt like aside from adding a righty hitting 4th outfielder type like Adam Duvall, their offense was already pretty well set. They need an ACE, and their offseason will go down as a failure if they don’t end up coming up with one. Would love to see them get Glasnow, even if it costs them some decent prospects.
titanic struggle
All this trade talk is nonsense. They have the money, and they have the need. Throw 5/15 at Snell or Montgomery and be done with it. Any of the two (I would prefer Snell) make the Reds the odds on favorite to win the Central, and you keep the younger talent that a lot of teams are asking for.
titanic struggle
Sorry, I meant to say 5/25 or 5/30… Long day..
BrianStrowman9
Do they though?
I think this would’ve been a much more successful offseason had they just given 5/125 to Monty & punted on Martinez & Candy.
titanic struggle
I think they need
needed the bullpen pieces as well.
jimij
Everybody is wrong, Reds just added depth, the kids are great but not durable for the long season and injuries always happen, they will still get the pitching they need, Votto is done, great HOF but moved back to Toronto, that’s where his boyfriend is living, it’s Dec the rest will follow soon
mwig
Unless I misread your earlier comment you began the name calling. Secondly I have never and wouldn’t say I’ve vaulted anyone to the Major Leagues, those decisions are made by the major league teams that has control of the player and lastly my expertise is mainly based on statistical probability based on factual numbers reported by every and all divisions of MLB and distributed to all of the same. We (nearly 500) of us have no idea who we are grading as every player has 2 letters followed by 7 numbers and 2 more letters for a name. I am just basing my comments on what I do and adding my opinion which is what everyone else does.
Larry Brown's crank
maybe you just assumed “idiot” was automatically you?
sixpacktwo
Candelario will never play 2nd he will be the 3nd baseman.1st/DH. There is no need to add 2nd.
rotofool
McClain the long term answer at 2B, while Elly could be the mover, perhaps to CF? Candy a solid if unspectacular addition that will help the youngsters, while Strand, Steer and Marte can be given some rope around the diamond. Reds should absolutely keep this core together and develop pitching in-house rather than rush out to add albatross contracts.
Patience now could payoff for years.
Alan Horn
I am beginning to agree on being patient and developing the pitching in house both at the major and minor league levels. Barring injury, we should be ok with that approach.I