In a chat today with readers, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the Cardinals will approach first baseman Paul Goldschmidt at some point this offseason with the hope of discussing a contract extension. He says the club prefers to get a deal done before the start of the season but that they will leave the door open for in-season discussions. He adds that neither side expects the conversation to be contentious and the club believes they can extend him through the remainder of his career.
Goldschmidt, 36, has just one year remaining on his contract, an extension he signed with the club in 2019. He will make a salary of $22MM in 2024 and will also get two signing bonus payments of $2.25MM each, one in January and one in July, leaving $26.5MM left to be paid out.
Though he is now into his mid-30s, he has continued to be a key part of the club, winning National League Most Valuable Players honors just last year. His 2023 was unquestionable a drop-off, but that says more about his excellent MVP campaign than anything. Here in 2023, he hit 25 home runs and drew walks in 12.7% of his plate appearances. His .268/.363/.447 batting line amounted to a wRC+ of 122, a far cry from his 176 in 2022, but that still indicates he was 22% better than league average. He also stole 11 bases and was got strong marks for his glovework, leading to a tally of 3.7 wins above replacement from FanGraphs and 3.4 from Baseball Reference.
Given that he continues to be a valuable member of the club, it’s understandable why the Cards would want to keep him around. They have generally not been shy about keeping their legendary players around, with Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright a couple of recent examples of players who were continually re-signed through the ends of their respective careers. Albert Pujols was away from the club for a while but returned for a farewell tour in St. Louis before hanging up his cleats.
That points to the club having strong relationships with its star players, with Nolan Arenado having also foregone an opt-out opportunity that many felt was in his best financial interest. If the same is true for Goldschmidt, it’s possible he could follow down the legendary path and stick with the club through the end of his career.
The spring is a common time for extensions, as clubs generally like to use the winter months to focus on building the roster by signing free agents and making trades, leaving discussions with in-house players for after those other matters are settled. The Cards came into this offseason with plenty to do, having already remade their rotation by signing Sonny Gray, Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn, in addition to trading outfielder Tyler O’Neill to the Red Sox. They still want to add to their bullpen and perhaps continue trading from their group of position players, so the talks with Goldschmidt aren’t the priority at this exact moment.
But as mentioned, they do hope to get it done before the season starts, so it will be something that could develop in the New Year or during Spring Training. It’s not terribly uncommon for a veteran to sign a one-year extension to stick around, such as the one Charlie Blackmon and the Rockies recently agreed to or the one-year deals Molina signed with the Cards for 2021 and 2022. But since Goldschmidt continues to produce at such a high level, he may be able to ask for a multi-year deal.
There’s not much precedent for a position player being extended this late in their careers, but there are some recent examples. In August of 2021, Brandon Crawford and the Giants signed a two-year, $32MM deal to cover his age-35 and age-36 seasons. Going a bit further back, Adrian Beltre signed a two-year, $36MM with the Rangers for his age-38 and age-39 seasons. In terms of free agent comparisons, Jose Abreu got a three-year, $58.5MM deal from the Astros going into his age-36 season. Prior to 2021, Justin Turner signed a two-year, $34MM deal with the Dodgers that began with his age-36 campaign. After that deal expired, he was able to get a two years and $21MM plus an opt-out from the Red Sox for his age-38 season.
The financials will be an interesting thing for the Cardinals to balance. Roster Resource estimates their 2024 payroll at $175MM while they already have $103MM committed for 2025, thanks to hefty deals for Arenado, Gray, Miles Mikolas, Willson Contreras and Steven Matz. Adding Goldschmidt will probably put them over $120MM for just six players.
But given their past preference for keeping their marquee players around as long as they keep playing, perhaps they are willing to walk that tightrope to keep Goldy around for a few more years.
Four years, $200 million. $196 million deferred over the next 150 years.
Contracts are now pension plans
Seems absolutely reasonable to me.
Completely unreasonable.
$198-mil deferred is much more reasonable.
Lol, good one. They got to do something about that loophole.
I know this is sarcasm but i don’t see Goldy making more per year then his last deal. I would say 2 years, maybe 42-44 million total and yes, some of it deferred.
I guess. It’s all about how much. He’s entering his age 36 season. A 2 year extension covers ages 37 and 38. How many players are productive at that age?
The Cardinals want him to go into the hall of fame wearing their hat. That is a factor here for sure.
Why does the hat matter? His performance with the team would be on the plaque anyway, assuming he makes it.
He’ll make it, and the hat ties him to the franchise. It’s a big deal every time a player has that choice to make. Yes, he’d still have D-Backs stats on the plaque, but if he were wearing a Cards hat, it would be another Cardinal in the HOF, vice a D-Back. It has a lot to do with prestige. It also more likely keeps him active in Cardinals baseball if they keep him to the end of the year, which is huge for a team and city that revolves so greatly around the culture of baseball and their beloved team.
He doesn’t have 2,000 hits, 400 homers, or a .300 BA.
His numbers are somewhat similar to those of Gil Hodges, who struggled to make it in even after winning the World Series as a manager.
Take off your Cardinals hat and try to be more objective and realistic about his HOF worthiness.
Votto out too then, I suppose? I’ve heard just about every writer/pundit say Votto is a shoe-in. Goldy already has more hits than seven HOF 1Bs, more HRs than 13 HOF 1Bs, and a higher average than seven HOF 1Bs, and he’s still adding to the hits and HR totals. His average will likely slip a bit, and his hits and HRs will certainly increase. He’ll get 2,000 hits this year and would be considered likely (although not a certainty) to eclipse 400 HRs before he retires. I would caution you to not just use nice even numbers pulled from historical speculation in this argument though. Perhaps a better marker would be JAWS, which shows his 7-year peak WAR significantly higher than the average HOF 1B and his career WAR/162 games also higher than the average HOF 1B. Recent trends in HOF voting have shown the voters to favor dominance over an extended period in a career over specific numbers. I do pride myself on being objective, but I also enjoy talking to folks like you who come around to stir a pot, because your type is just fun. Keep being fun, and I’ll keep being objective.
Nobody who considers Votto or Goldschmidt a “shoo-in” is objective.
They might make it, but it’s hardly guaranteed.
Not stirring anything, just stating a fact.
It’s also a fact that there are no fans less objective than those evaluating their favorite team’s players.
Votto is 1st-ballot to me. I can’t imagine not voting for him. For the record, I’m not a member of the BBWAA lol
On the flip side, there are no fans less objective than those evaluating players on other teams they don’t call their own.
Lol like I said, I’m not in the BBWAA. I’m just a dude shooting the spit on the corner, jawing about baseball. But Posnanski on the Athletic I believe wrote a beautiful endorsement for Votto that has stuck with me. I’ll always love the dude, and I’m probably better off that I got to love him from afar.
Votto has been a good-to-great player in his era.
But with 2,135 hits, 356 HR, and 1,144 RBI as a player only compared to Hodges with 1,921 hits, 370 HR, and 1,274 RBI as a player and a world championship as a manager, Votto has a reasonable case, but his numbers and career do not cry out first ballot, and he could just as easily fail to get sufficient votes and eventually fall off the BBWAA ballot as Hodges did before posthumously being voted in by a special committee.
And on the flip side of your flippant response, people are invariably more objective looking at players who didn’t play for their favorite teams. It’s only logic.
Totally agreed. It’s just banter.
But still man, I love the player. What can I say?
He sounds like Dale Murphy. Murph’s a nice, approachable, down-to-earth guy – he’s present and connected with a lot of regular folks on LinkedIn – and Braves fans love him and scream that he should be in the HOF, but his numbers aren’t quite there.
Negative bias exists in the same amount as positive. A Cardinals fan isn’t likely to view Votto through an objective lens for instance, even though Votto didn’t play for the Cardinals.
I agree with you that Votto is a borderline guy at this point. At the end of his 2021 bounce back it looked like he was just 2-3 graceful decline years away from being a no doubt guy, if not a 1st ballot one, but now I’m not sure he makes it in at all.
He hasn’t retired yet? He’ll get 2,000 hits this year. He’s only 60 homeruns away from 400, so he should get that by the time he retires.
And if he does, he might have a stronger case than he does now.
Votto is completely overrated. The guy played in one of the most hitter friendly parks his whole career and his stats are decent, but not great. Sure he walked, his OBP is great, but he should have way more HR, RBI, and hits for playing in his home park. He’s a Hall of Very Good player, but will likely get in because the media liked him.
He will not hit 60 more home runs the rest of his career. He’ll be lucky to get 40.
IMO if you win an MVP you should be a lock for a hall of fame. You were the best player in your league for a season. Goldschmidt could arguably have 2 or 3 MVPs. He finished 2nd twice and 3rd once. Plus a 6th place and 11 place. All with the DBacks. He’s best years by far were with the DBacks. Anyone who thinks he’ll go in as a Cardinal are drunk. He’s not a first ballot, but that’s because people suck.
There’s no such thing as lock for the HOF. What if a guy wins MVP in his second season, suffers a career-ending injury the next year, and finishes with a .265 average and 55 home runs?
He’s not HOF-worthy just because he won a MVP award.
He won’t hit 60 more? He has this year on his contract and most predictions say he’ll get a 2 year extension, giving him three years to hit 60 homeruns. That’s only an average of 20 per season. He’s one year removed from 35 homeruns and last year he still managed 25. Barring injury, he should have no trouble hitting 60+ homeruns over 3 years.
In fact, the last time he fewer than 25 in a season was 2016 (aside from the COVID year).
He’s a legitimately excellent first baseman whose only contemporary competition are Votto and Freeman. It is very likely he makes the HOF based on his dominance during the time he has played.
isn’t Pujols a lock in 4 years? what about Jeter? Mr. Sandman? each of those were HOF locks as they played they last season or 2.
Don’t forget get Miguel Cabrera. He won a triple crown.
he’s a lock in my opinion too
3000+ hits and 500+ homers
What about Abreau? Cabrera? Adrián Gonzales? Rizzo? Pujols? Ortiz? He’s crossed paths with a lot of studs over his career. Abreau is still playing and won an MVP. Cabrera retired last year, Pujols two years ago and the fact that you discounted them shows how much first basement fall off at age 36. He will not hit 60 more home runs. He won’t hit 20 this year. Do some research. There is plenty of it out there. And it all says be prepared for Goldschmidt to be more like Tino Martinez in STL than Goldschmidt in 2022. I bring examples you can look up to prove the facts, where are the counter stats to prove otherwise? I’ve look pretty deep and besides Ortiz(steroids?), I can’t find any.
In that scenario he very well could get the Gale Sayers treatment and end up in the hall of fame on what could have been. In a vaccuum A player has less than a 0.1% chance of winning an MVP in a season, to be one of the two best out of over 1,200 players in one season is an incredible feat. Like I said, just my opinion. There are a lot of hall of famers who never won an MVP but are in for playing forever. An MVP is more impressive than staying around forever. Again, just my opinion.
All of those 1B are the previous generation aside from Abreu. I didn’t discount them, I just don’t consider them in the same generation as Goldy and Freeman. Votto is sort of a bridge between the two generations, in my opinion.
The difference between the HOF cases for Goldy and Abreu are career totals. Goldy has them (and will likely have even more of them) and Abreu, though a fine player, does not and probably will not.
“Do some research” always funny when people throw that out there. There’s nothing to get irritated about here, just two people disagreeing about a mostly irrelevant topic.
So, why do you think Goldschmidt will hit less than 20 homeruns this year? And no, I don’t have to “look up the facts”. You’re making the argument that he’ll hit less than 20 this year and fewer than 60 for the rest of his career. You have the burden of proof. I’m not doing your work for you.
@Wagner>Cobb: He might, and if enough voters deem that enough, he might get voted in.
But it’s hardly cut and dried. Do you have a problem with uncertainty?
I’ve proved my proof. 36 year old first basemen fall off a cliff. Abreau, Votto, Miggy, Pujols, the list goes on and on. So if he hits 35 the year before and is set to significantly decline, he won’t hit 20 this year nor any year and get and there for get no where near 60. You can discount bring the facts, I hook into baseball ref database to run my numbers before speaking my opinion, so again find examples to prove me wrong.
*25 the year before…
I’m perfectly fine with uncertainty. That’s why I said “highly likely” as opposed to “absolutely certain”.
Previous generation? Pujols signed his mega deal the year after Goldschmidt’s rookie season. 2 years later Goldschmidt finished second in the MVp.Canrera hit the triple crown in 2012, again same year Goldschmidt finished 2nd in the MVP for the fort times. Goldschmidt isn’t on their level, but he also isn’t a different generation.
So your proof for Goldy hitting no more than 19 homeruns this year is that Abreu, Votto, Miggy, and Pujols had steep declines starting at age 36? There’s no proof of anything there aside from “players tend to decline with age” which is of course true. But you haven’t demonstrated in the slightest that Goldy will hit less than 20 homeruns next year.
Pujols hit 31 homeruns at age 36, 23 at 37, 23 at 39, and 24 at 42.
Votto (never an elite power hitter) hit 36 homeruns at age 37.
All players have unique aging curves. That’s why different players post different stats at different ages. Generally, they worsen with age, but it’s not an iron law. Guys pop off from time to time despite age.
Yeah, I mean it’s pretty subjective. I’m not bothered if you see them all as the same generation.
In any case, I try to judge these things based on when guys started their careers. Just my preference since I think it keeps things more consistent. Goldy and Freeman debuted in 2011 and 2010 respectively. Pujols, for example, debuted in 2001 which is a full decade earlier. A 10 year gap seems reasonable to me for delineating one generation and the next. Miggy debuted in 2003 which is almost a decade as well. That’s close enough for me to place him in the Pujols generation and not the Goldy/Freeman generation.
Are you directing that at me, Brock Louis?
Murphy had a much higher peak but was less consistent. I’d actually say Murphy is more deserving than Votto.
As for Goldy he’s although he has only had 1 MVP like Votto has, he has had more top 5 finishes. He also has had more Gold Gloves. He has far more HRs, is not far behind in hits, and is very close in total WAR. And Goldy has done this while playing 4 less seasons than Votto has.
When both of their careers are over it appears as Goldy will be quite far ahead of Votto statistically and with hardware.
Keep throwing out only counting stats….take a deeper look into votto’s dominance in his prime…
Lol….Goldschmidt keeps himself in great shape….he will hit another 60
Ask Andre Dawson. It matters to him. He was put in as an Expo instead of a Cub. Unfortunately for him, a majority of his stats came with the Expos.
We can be fairly certain he’s gotten over it by now.
No, you can’t because he hasn’t. He is still trying to get it changed.
msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mlb-great-andre-dawson-wa…
OK. I’ll let you be the one to lose sleep over it, because I won’t.
You opened your mouth first to be a smart ass and was wrong. Don’t backtrack now.
So I was wrong. We all are at one time or another. Sue me.
And I’ll let you be the one to lose sleep over that as well, because I won’t.
Just a reminder how the Dodgers hosed everyone and got Ohtani for free. How you ask? Let’s run through it
Recent estimates mentioned Ohtani accounted for $25 mil in revenue for the Angels. Dodgers are more popular and expect to generate more off him, but I’ll even use an ultra conservative $30 mil generated (it will probably be more).
Ohtani’s contract is structured so they really aren’t paying him anything for 10 years, so the Dodgers will basically collect $300 mil in revenue off him more or less without paying him anything. But you also have to remember they can invest as they collect. The interest compounded over this period as they add $30 mil more revenue off him each season brings the total to $475 million. This is before they pay him much of anything (ok technically $10 mil will be paid since he gets $2 mil per season).
From there they start to pay him, but they still have this lump sum to accumulate interest while they pay him. I used a retirement withdrawal calculator for this part, but basically if you start with 465 million at a 10% interest rate and want to make it last 10 years you can effectively withdraw $68.8 million each year before hitting 0 at the 10 year mark. It aligns almost perfectly with what they will be “withdrawing” to pay Ohtani his contract after he’s done playing for them.
The Dodgers played all of us. Props to them. The question is what were others doing while the Dodgers were doing all this?
Also I used a very conservative $30 mil of revenue generated from the Ohtani factor for LAD each year. In reality they will probably bank more off him and make more than they’ll pay him in the long run of all this. Every single franchise took a huge L on this one, not just from a missed opportunity for the best player in baseball but also to rake in more cash than they’ll pay out to a single player.
How will they make $30m off of him a year? Merchandise (jerseys, signed balls, etc) are liscensed MLB products and profits from them go into revenue sharing. I think in the long run they’ll make a lot of money off of him, after their TV contract expires and they switch to a subscription service. Then, lots of Japanese viewers will probably subscribe because of the Ohtani connection
Feels like Guggenheim might own the team for about 5 more years and then cash out for a gigantic return on that $2B they paid.
EJ Johnson won’t allow it.
They won’t be able to sell this team. Who would buy it when they know they won’t be competitive for those 10 years they are paying $68/yr million for no return?
Lol, they’ll still be competitive because they’re the Dodgers. And that $68m a year will be with a LOT less by the time they start actually making those payments. Due to normal dollar inflation and inflation of MLB salaries overtime (which tends to outpace dollar inflation)
He won’t make them $30M a year. And they damn sure ain’t gonna put up $475M in a lump sum to pay him
Those numbers about how much he brings to a team were conflated by an agent, no doubt. Plus, every star player has value to their team, so it’s not like whatever money he actually does bring in is a dollar for dollar increase in what some other star player would have brought the team. Agents are scum.
“Agents are scum.” Now there’s a dumb statement.
Agents are actually professionals who work hard marketing and advocating for their player clients to get paid what they are worth based on the revenue and value they generate for a team and its ownership.
There is nothing illegal or underhanded about what they do.
You not liking it and resorting to calling them stupid names is your problem, not anyone else’s.
Why did you bring a totally unrelated topic into this thread? Keep it to the Ohtani post.
700 Million is considered Free Huh. A+ math for you.
This sounds like a great deal for the Dodgers, and also, Shohei agreed to the terms. Every team can and does negotiate deferrals into big contracts. It’s a little frustrating that people are treating it like something unusual.
No every team doesn’t do deferrals, you are frustrated because the dodgers and Ohtani feel dirty like they cheated the system.
May not be against the rules but still feels dirty and you can argue it doesn’t but when 98% of the league feels that way you are going to feel frustrated
@Simm I’m frustrated by fans in comments sections acting like this is some novel concept. It’s a very common practice. It’s been going on at least since Bonilla.
No it’s not, this is historic. If you don’t see that then you are blind
Of course it’s historic. Look at who the player is. The Nationals made mega-offers to both Bryce and Soto that included significant deferrals, and both players turned them down. Most players don’t want deferrals. Shohei isn’t most players. Obviously! I’m just saying, the concept of deferred money is nothing new. Obviously Shohei is a historic player. But if you want to go around saying how the Dodgers did something radically unprecedented with that payment structure … I mean, first off, I’m not sure what you’re even talking about, and second, both the comissioner’s office and the MLBPA would get involved. Happy to “disagree” on this point of fact.
SIMM: How is this historic? No player in the history of the league has received what Bonilla did for the length of time he did. You’re comparing future dollars (today’s inflated money/contracts) to the past – of course it’s going to appear to be substantially more.
But again, who is your team? Mets, Nats Orioles, Royals, Reds, Boston, Rockies, etc, etc, have all done this with multiple expensive contracts. The Red Sox just deferred over $100MM of Devers contract this past year!
These arguments reek of jealousy that Ohtani CHOSE the Dodgers. What folks here want is Ohtani to be forced to choose their team.
NFL, NBA, and MLB have done this as a matter of practice and as part of their agreements. The only thing that is unique is that Ohtani is only collecting $2MM/year, which is extraordinarily low in an age when players demand their money. To pretend this is atypical behavior is disingenuous.
Bruce Sutter did almost two decades before Bonilla made his deal.
I’m not contract savvy, but how does the insurance for a contract like this work?
If he has a career ending injury in a year or two is the deferred money covered?
68 million for a guy no longer playing is crazy to me. My head might explode.
Yep it’s a guaranteed contract.
Somewhere, Bobby Bonilla is smiling
Somewhere, Bobby Bonilla really doesn’t care.
Bobby Bonilla is always smiling. Why wouldn’t he? Why shouldn’t he? Awesome ballplayer in his day, and still doing alright off baseball even today.
I mean, I don’t know anything about his personal life. But in my mind’s eye, Bobby Bo is always smiling.
If you recall, the Angels got Pujols for free (their TV deal was bumped from $50 mil/year to $150 mil/year contingent on signing Pujols).
Actually they made a ton of money by signing him, regardless of his on-field production.
@SE, so you are absolutely wrong here. Per the CBA any deferrals have to have the principal funded each year at the time of each deferral. In Ohtani’s case that is $44M per season which will be getting 4% interest which will accrue to a value of $68M at time deferred $ is due. This will repeat for each of the 10 years of his contract.
So ultimately the Dodgers will be paying $46M annually for the next 10 years to cover the terms of the contract. They also will only be paying a total of $460M. 20M in annual salary and $440M to fund the deferrals. The other $240M will be paid in interest through whoever the $ is invested with.
As for any $ the Dodgers generate off of Ohtani being a member of their franchise, that is at the discretion of their marketing team. Every team has the ability to market their players, yes a player like Ohtani is much more marketable. But every team has the ability to try and sign these players and generate $ marketing them after that.
You’ll always be a 6x all star w/ the Snakes. If he wants a WS ring he is going to have to look elsewhere. Redbirds trying to buy that possible HOF hat.
No debate here! The cardinals have still won more World Series than any other NL team!!!! Can’t compare the snakes to the red birds! Even the Dodgers buying all star teams fail to be what the Cardinals are and will be!
Maybe they’ll get Ian Anderson to pitch for you. When he warms up, they’ll play Living In The Past.
All but two of those probably came before you were born
And at this rate, I’d bet on LA winning several more before StL gets another
He’s HOF. One of my favorite arguments is that Votto is shoe-in HOF, but Goldy is only “hall of good”. Look at their numbers. Right now, they’re very close, but Goldy being younger and better at this point, he’s likely to end up with more hits, HRs, RBI, SBs, Runs, GGs than Votto. There’s not much question in the minds of those who are paying attention that they’re both going in. For Goldy, it’s just a matter of which hat, and yes, the Cards think about those things at times like this.
@Charlie: Before the HOF chooses Goldschmidt’s hat, it’s just a matter of him getting 75% of the BBWAA votes.
If he does, and that’s a big IF, he’s played 8 years for Arizona and 5 years for St Louis. Unless he stays with the Cardinals and has 3-4 more good years, it’s more than likely the HOF will put the DBacks hat on his plaque.
Slow down and don’t get ahead of yourself about such a trivial detail.
You mean adding Lynn and Gray won’t propel them to greatness this year?
I fail to understand why Mozeliak continues to show his hand before the betting even begins.
I bet the House loves to see him coming
Probably because Goldy has expressed interest in an extension? This isn’t an uncommon thing
Nothing to hide on this one. There’s mutual interest. No card/chess games needed. They just work together to get it done. (But Mo definitely played his hand early with O’Neill).
He didn’t play his hand early. He probably already had offered O’Niell to almost every MLB team when they announced it.
It wasn’t news to other GMs – and since there were multiple teams interested it probably didn’t drive his trade value down much. Injuries and strikeouts were responsible for that.
3 years 90m. He’s getting old and shouldn’t get any more than what Cohen paid Verlander
2 yrs $40MM
I would agree with 2 years/$40 million, and then he gets a one year deal with a mutual option after that if he wants to keep playing and still has something left in the tank. Don’t think he has any realistic chance of approaching $30mil/yr in any deal at this point.
Hard to believe he’s already 36.
Good for Goldy.
SURE THEY ARE!! THEY JUST LEARNED SOME LOOPHOLES FROM THE DODGERS, ALTHOUGH DEFERRALS HAVE BEEN APPLIED BEFORE, BUT NOT ON THIS LEVEL!! THE CARDS CAN PAY GOLDSMIDT A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT AS LONG AS HE IS INTO DEFERRALS!
Right, as long as he’s into deferrals.
@ABraves23: Why are you SHOUTING?
I don’t understand why. He wasn’t bad in 23, but clearly he’s aging. Let him go have a part time role in Arizona
Everyone is aging. He won the MVP in 2022.
He’s still a very good player, good teammate, and good clubhouse presence. The Cards also care about culture, which is instrumental in convincing guys like Arenado to stick around. There’s plenty of reason to get a deal done if it doesn’t break the bank, and I don’t think this one will.
Okay, I’m a very unhappy Cards fan, and this take still makes negative sense
That is because you choose to be negative.
Bring him back!!! I vote yes!
Max out the credit card!!
I love Goldy! I wonder if they have thought about a contract with Walker?
I would like it, too. 8 years/90 million or something. Let’s build a core with Walker, Gorman, Nootbaar and Edman. I think Donovan is great as well but his trade value might never be higher.
As bad as the team was in 2023, it seems unwise to extend any members of the team who are over the age of 30.
He seems like a pretty quiet guy. Is he a leader in the clubhouse , Cardinals fans? Does he do a lot of media and speaking for the team? Watching the season unravel from afar last year, I just didn’t pick up many quotes from this guy saying much about it.
The pitching and the management fell apart!!!! That’s where the discussion should start
Not to be unkind, but watching the Cardinals flounder is so unbelievably unusual and; therefore, so darn entertaining. It’s as if the laws of physics (and baseball) have been turned upside down. Wild stuff.
As a Cardinals fan, I’ll take the backhanded compliment and give you the hopefully short-lived celebration. Everyone’s a winner.
You’re just another saint from on high in Baseball Heaven!
Very good question. He is known to be a great teammate and great clubhouse guy. He’s always looking for ways to improve his game and the game of those around him. People come to him for advice (both players and coaches). He’s not fiery but is looked at as a leader in the clubhouse. He’s also a huge contributor to the community. He serves and gives a lot. Great presence in St. Louis for sure. He’s the kind of guy you want as a face of your franchise.
I live in Saint Louis. What does Goldschmidt do? I’m not saying he doesn’t, but you certainly don’t hear about it like you did with Molina, Holiday, Pujols and Wainrwright. All players visit kids at Barnes. But specific does he do that stand out above the rest in STL? I have scene him on billboards for charity like the other. Arenado neither for that matter. I’m just curious how you are so definitive. I have a little inside information and all I know about Goldy is he is a bible thumper. Not a leader at all. He wont give his opinion unless asked, it very willing to help when asked. Otherwise a quiet recluse.
Todd Helton took a 2-year extension at $5 million per late in his career. But he had already declined to near replacement level by then; Goldschmidt is still pretty good.
The Cardinals do love those farewell tours. Whether extending Goldschmidt would do much to win ball games is another question. I can easily see Goldy coming in at something like 2.5 WAR in 2025 and 2.0 WAR in 2026.
How much should you pay for that? I’m not suggesting that Goldschmidt will turn into a disaster like Wainwright did this year. But I would be very leery of anything over $40 million for those two seasons. Even that number looks a little rich.
2/28-30 tops
Sixty million for three years sounds right.
57m deferred
One other thing. Get ready to see the word “deferral” in every thread about a possible contract. You might even see it two or three times, or 68 million times.
In all fairness, the Cardinals do like deferring the contracts.
*680 million
Give him a contract covering 2-3 years as the same as freeman
Arenado’s got some deferred money, though nothing like Ohtani, of course. Anybody else on the team getting deferrals?
Give him 2 more years at his current amount.
I think he’s the only one left with a deferral in his contract, but they do still owe Wainwright about $10 million (over 10 years, I believe). Not exactly a bank-breaker, but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head.
That’s a terrible idea and another showing of Mozaliak being an idiot. He should be traded while he has any value left, not extended. History shows non steroid first basemen fall of a cliff production wise was at 36. The best ever even. Cabrera, Pujols, Votto. Adrian Gonzales(who is a great comp) fell off before that. He could play in late August and September of 2022, he tired out well before that in 2023. So sure let’s lock him up so he can take up a spot on an already terrible lineup.
He did tail off in September of both years, but not really before that. 2023 is kind of tough to judge between multiple regulars being shut down already and the team going down in a blaze of glory around him. His August in 2022 was ridiculously torrid, so I wouldn’t even include that month in the argument, even if he had three whole bad games at the end of the month. Also hard to be too critical of the guy who was one of the team’s statistical leaders in almost every major category in 2023 (third in HRs, only two behind the team lead, second in RBI, first in BA, first in Runs, first in Hits, first in Doubles, first in total bases, second in SBs, second in OPS, tied for first in WAR). While I agree you need to be smart about AAV and years at this age, nothing in the article says they’re going to go overboard in either department, so it would be kind of silly not to get behind talking about an extension when you’re not obligated to get into ridiculous numbers in the discussion. Feel free to criticize if they give him a 5-year, $150 million extension, but that’s obviously not going to happen. I’m not Mo’s biggest fan, but I’d rather talk to Goldy at this point than ignore him and send him packing without even bringing up the idea of keeping him here.
History doesn’t lie and lost steriod era history shows first baseman fall off a cliff at age 36 season. His 2023 season gives no reason to think it won’t be the case for Goldschmidt as well. He was top of the team in stats, sure. Someone has to be. The offense was one of the worst in the league. I’m sure you’ll spew some excuses of down season, or injuries or shutting people down. None of that matters all bad teams go through that, that’s why they are bad.
The offense will agruanly be worse this season because Goldschmidt and Arenado will comitinue to regress. I’ll stop inevitable responses new of “but Walker will much improved”. Again History has shown players are relatively flat to their first 100 games for most of their career. Especially those that were top 50 prospects.
The team is probably 100 loss team this year. All I’m saying is Goldschmidt proves more value in trade return this year then he does in the field so unless the plan is sign and trade and extension make no sense. And if the extension is for the ridiculous reason of a card hat in the maybe/maybe not hall of fame induction, then Mozaliak should be driven out of town immediately.
If this happens, Mozaliak will probably have some interest in some paper weights I have as well.
Loyalty contracts are the Cardinals continuous downfall. Goldy has been great but why ignore the obvious downturn? He was extremely unclutch last season. Not sure he can be counted on to hit 3rd or 4th anymore. Spend the money elsewhere. Better hope the young guys like Gorman and Walker step up or we may have some down years ahead of us.
I don’t see signing Goldy to a long term extension , but a couple years would make sense. I would think he would not want to keep playing if he is not capable of doing so at a better than average level