The Dodgers and Shohei Ohtani agreed to massive a ten-year, $700MM deal over the weekend, but it was reported that there were significant deferrals. The deal still isn’t official but Fabian Ardaya of The Athletic relays some of the particulars today, most notably that $68MM of Ohtani’s $70MM annual salary will be deferred, leaving him making just $2MM per year in the short term. The deferred money is to be paid out without interest from 2034 to 2043. This will reportedly reduce the CBT hit of the contract to around $46MM per year.
When reporting on Ohtani’s deal was initially coming out over the weekend, Jeff Passan of ESPN relayed “most of” the salary would be deferred. It now appears that wording was putting it mildly, with this framing coming as quite a shock. Deferring money is not new but this scale is clearly unprecedented. Most baseball fans are familiar with Bobby Bonilla’s unusual contract structure, with many of them celebrating “Bobby Bonilla Day” every July 1. In late 1999, the Mets released Bonilla but still owed him $5.9MM. In order to save money in the short term, the club kicked the payments down the road, agreeing to pay him $1.19MM on July 1 every year from 2011 to 2035.
But deferring $68MM annually is clearly uncharted waters, since no MLB player has ever even had a salary of $45MM or higher. Ohtani is set to almost double that, in a sense, but he will only be banking $2MM per year during his time playing for the Dodgers.
From Ohtani’s point of view, the gambit makes a lot of sense and Passan reported over the weekend it was Ohtani’s idea. By taking less money now, he will leave the club with more money to build a competitive team around him. For competitive balance tax purposes, a contract is measured in net present value as opposed to pure guarantee, so this works for luxury tax purposes also. As mentioned up top, this will lead to a CBT hit of about $46MM, instead of the $70MM that would apply if going just by average annual value. As Ardaya mentions in today’s report, Ohtani makes about $50MM per year in terms of endorsements and off-the-field revenue streams, meaning he won’t be hurting for cash by taking this path. He’ll then be able to collect $68MM per year after he has played out the 10-year term of the agreement.
For the Dodgers, this will obviously be great for their competitive chances in the short term. They get an elite player the likes of which the world has never seen for a mere $2MM per year. That’s obviously still a huge amount of money for the average person but chump change in the baseball world, with the MLB minimum is set to be $740K next year. They also cut their CBT hit way down, significantly limiting the taxes they eventually have to pay at any point over the next decade. The long-term downside is that, from 2034 to 2043, they will be spending $68MM on a player that is no longer on the club. As pointed out by Brandon Wile of The Score, there are also heavy deferrals in the Mookie Betts deal, meaning the Dodgers will be paying a combined $79MM to Ohtani and Betts in 2043 when Betts will be 50 years old and Ohtani 48.
That could come back to bite them down the road, but they clearly see the present as a unique opportunity to strike while having a unique combination of talents with players like Ohtani, Freddie Freeman and Betts all on the roster. Due to inflation, by the time those payments roll around, the value of $68MM will be less than it is today.
Some fans of other clubs may not like the way this is playing out but it doesn’t seem like there’s any hope of the league stepping in to put a stop to it. As relayed by Passan, the collective bargaining agreement clearly states that there is no limit to the amount of money than can be deferred in a contract.
Both Ohtani and the club had to agree to this deal, so it’s obviously fine with the parties involved. But it’s not great for any rival clubs or their fans. The Dodgers have already been one of the most successful clubs in recent history, running up big payrolls and having currently made the playoffs in 11 straight seasons. Now they are adding an unprecedented talent with unprecedented financial machinations that will appear to many as unfair, regardless of whether or not they are actually against the rules.
The Dodgers still have a lot of work to do this offseason, particularly in the rotation. They are currently slated to rely upon Walker Buehler, who missed all of 2023 recovering from Tommy John surgery, and then a batch of fairly unproven youngsters such as Bobby Miller, Ryan Pepiot, Emmet Sheehan, Gavin Stone and Michael Grove. With the huge amount of money they committed to Ohtani, it was fair to wonder how much powder they would have dry for bolstering that staff. With Ohtani agreeing to this deal, it makes it far more likely that they throw some money around at free agents like Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery or others.
Both Jack Harris of the L.A. Times and Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register report that Ohtani explored these kinds of contract structures with every team he negotiated with, so this wasn’t just a Dodgers-exclusive thing. It seems that Ohtani wants to win and has agreed to structure his deal so that his chances of doing so are as high as possible. He’ll take home far less money now in order to make the team stronger during the course of his playing career.
thegreatbambi3
say what now
iml12
That’s just stupid. How do they get away with that contract.
Balk
Now this shouldn’t be allowed. It’s like a slap in the face to other clubs.
braves fan 138
Manfred wont do anything critical of LA, the dodgers own that fraud
Waldo29
Why shouldn’t this be allowed? All the other teams operate under the same exact rules and could’ve done it also, they just chose not to.
Habitual Truth Teller
Uh no. Padres tried to reduce aav on judges contract they offered last year and if he accepted mlb was ready to come in and veto the deal because they felt it was circumventing cbt penalties. Padres wanted 14 years instead of 10. Dodgers are pushing Ohtani’s 10 years into the future.
biffpocoroba
How do you know they were offered the opportunity by Ohtani?
Buckner
Ridiculous comments already in this thread.
Realize that Ohtani had to ASK for that.
This deal is spectacular all the way around – and he will likely wind up owning a sports franchise in the future and be extremely wealthier than most of the commenters here can even imagine..
Simm
Same reason 14 year contracts aren’t allows to guy who will be 44. It’s clear and obvious way to avoid paying the tax.
Commissioner is on record for saying he wouldn’t allow a deal like the padres afford
Judge and this one is worse.
Surely the other teams will give homemaker backlash. One owner or two won’t keep him employed.
deuceball
Other teams can either do the same or else owners can lock out players and cripple the dodgers the next cba. The players association will have no problem with contracts like this
Dodger Dog
It’s in the CBA, there are no limits to deferrals.
braves fan 138
bro who do think is commenting in here Warren buffet lol, I sure as hell hope he is wealthier than everyone is this thread
Mehmehmeh
It’s ridiculous to believe the “it was Ohtani ‘s idea!” line that the LAD are trying to spin-feed everyone.
haighwiser
BS!!! Every other team does not!!
braves fan 138
lmao 100%, ohtani’s idea like we are buying that Ohtani secretly during the offseason got his cpa
norcalblue
Thank you #Buckner. These people rip Shohei for his greed, and then it turns out he’s willing to take no money for a year in order to play for a winner and they throw dirt elsewhere. Wtf… Unlike most of these sorry organizations, the Dodgers are focused on winning, and they’re willing to pay for it. In this case, it attracts the very best talent to them, and all people want to do is criticize.
norcalblue
And whining
Mikey P
Um no. He could take the money now and invest it and double or triple or god knows what on apple stock. Instead he’ll get $68 mill in the future when money is valued less.
The only thing that makes sense is he’s trying to build a better team now, but this also cripples the dodgers when he’s done.
More n more I think this does down as the worst contract ever.
DesertRedbird
It was reported that it was Ohtani’s idea.
VonPurpleHayes
Why? Other clubs could do it.
Michaelchavez22
I believe the Dodgers asked Harper to defer his money if he would’ve signed with LA.
Buckner
@Mikey P – Ohtani is clearly not a greedy Americano, addicted to some trading app on his phone and glued to CNBC. It is a great deal all the way around – for the Dodgers and Ohtani. It fits who he is, as a moral person.
Airbal
Taxes
bkbk
Its a loophole that leverages inequality. You think any player gonna a deferred promise from the Rays owner? The As?
LongTimeFan1
@nocalblue,
Ohtani makes 50 mil a year off the field, this decision by Ohtani isn’t heroic..his contract, and now deferring 68 mil a year turns the business of baseball on it’s head. I don’t think good for baseball.
Anthony maresca
I call bullsh-t as they have been planning this since the World Series was over.
1984wasntamanual
They’re pushing back their actual payment, not the cbt hit. They’re not stretching it out to artifically lower the CBT #.
Steve_SD
WRONG. The CBA allows this; Manfred can’t do a thing.
Kelland
It was reported (maybe by Passan) shortly after the agreement was announced.
cbraves
Yeah, I couldn’t even imagine getting the $2MM.
Lonniemac
Why? The Dodgers will still end up paying the man 700 million. Will the other clubs consider it a slap in the face with the Dodgers are paying 68 mil a year for 10 years after he is retired?
norcalblue
RLTF, You and I would probably agree that revenue sharing, combined with some real accountability for spending money is needed. Unfortunately, 30–50% of the owners don’t care about winning. They simply want to make some money and own a team.
Until the rules change, executives like Friedman and owners like Guggenheim, who are all about winning, will be able to attract not only the best talent, but talent that prioritizes winning.
Until the rules change, executives and owners who prioritize winning are going to take advantage of the rules and maximize their chances.
jasonthebuc
If the Dodgers owned him, why didn’t he vacate the 2017 Championship?
logan26
You are spreading misinformation. Judges offer wasnt deferred. They were trying to make his contract super long so it seemed like his AAV was lower when they knew full well he wouldn’t finish the contract.
AzMike
No they weren’t given the opportunity. There’s a difference. EVERY team in MLB fight to the death to sign Ohtani at 2mill per year
Yankee Clipper
AZ Mike: This had no bearing on teams signing Ohtani. No team, outside of a very select few, we’re going to commit the necessary total allotment and AAV to Ohtani.
Plus there’s one MAJOR caveat to your statement…teams could “fight to the death” for Ohtani, but it’s HIS decision, and he would’ve taken the LAD obviously……
Brian frigging Downing
Lol except when he does commercials for and takes money from Sam Bankman Fried and his scam company. Lol yeah that happened. Ohtani isn’t a saint dude. Wake up.
kripes-brewers
In what way is any of that crap a good thing?
luclusciano
Glued to CNBC? I don’t understand the reference.
GreenMonsta
“The CBA allows this”
Why shouldnt it be allowed?
Ohtani got paid $460M in ‘todays’ money. The Dodgers are being hit with a CBT tax on $460M. Who cares if he gets that money deferred out.
The $700M number is just a publicity stunt.
deweybelongsinthehall
Bowie Kuhn in hindsight was a Fan’s commissioner voiding Fingers and Rudi to Boston for $1m each and Blue to NY for $1.5m. Contrast that with just last year when the Mets deals with Texas and Houston were allowed to go through. Very tough to be a fan of certain teams today.
JackStrawb
@GreenMonsta Bingo!
deweybelongsinthehall
They just haven’t won in a LONG time. Baseball fans don’t count a 60 game season. The beauty of baseball is how long the season is.
LongTimeFan1
@Steve_SD
Manfred has power to make decisions for the good of the game. The Commissioner can block deals.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
@Buckner,
I couldn’t flag your comment based on the rules, but I flagged it in my mind! I flagged it so freaking hard in my mind!
You fielded that question like a 1986 World Series Game 6 groundball hit by the orignial Mookie, Mr. Wilson!
Zerbs63
Or the 2018
kidnova
From a legal standpoint stretching the term of the deal to reduce AAV is not the same thing as deferring. One is legal, the other is not.
LongTimeFan1
@Brian frigging Downing
Sam Bankman Fried is done, is in jail for a very long time, and his companies are worthless. Screwed a lot of people.
kidnova
Doesn’t impact the Dodgers when he’s done. The deferred payments won’t count against their cap after his contract expires. It’s just a cost, and they’re swimming in money.
No Salary Cap For You! (Come Back One Year)
the collective bargaining agreement clearly states that there is no limit to the amount of money than can be deferred in a contract. Sour grapes
vikingbluejay67
He already is wealthier than all of us.
JaysForDayz
Lol you don’t get it. Ohtani makes $50m a yr currently in endorsements. He doesn’t need the money. Further, when he does start getting $68m a year, he’ll move to where the money is taxed favorably or not at all. The dodgers benefit from a 40% discount on the hit towards luxury tax for a decade. The value of money will be less in 10yrs and the thresholds higher, thus impacting the dodgers team very little at that pt. The loophole that allows this is outrageous, even if the dodgers and ohtani are both within their rights. Such a scenario is not good for baseball, and certainly horrible for the NL and NL West specifically.
AngelsFan1968
Well the Dodgers are owned by Guggenheim Partners, which is global investment firm with more than 218 Billion dollar of assets under their management.
So they can afford to buy whoever they want at any price.
JaysForDayz
The CBT hit is reduced in deferred $$ to NPV, so they’re only taxed on 46m instead of $70m. Definitely a negative for every other team.
Orichalcon
by deferring, you lose money – ohtani merely asked for this because he wants to win, but in terms of 2023 dollars by having so much deferred so far into the future it might only be worth 500mm instead of 675mm it would be if he received it all in the next 10 years
… and yes, i do see the irony in saying ‘only 500mm’ but compared to 675 thats quite a hit
JaysForDayz
That has no bearing on luxury tax at the time, so no one will likely notice. Advantage has already been used and gained.
JackStrawb
@JaysForDayz Well, no. The Japanese government will not allow Ohtani, a Japanese citizen, to evade taxes on money effectively earned in 2024 through 2033, years during which he was a Japanese citizen.
Siscokid
Mass contract restructuring incoming…
Buckner
@thank_god_we_arent_angels – get back to us after math class. It’s clear you’re feeling you have somehow been wronged. It is a great deal all the way around.
Astros2017&22Champs
All other teams are not able to do it actually. It takes an ownership group with more money than the others and the ability to not care about ramifications. This makes MLB have zero parity compared to the other sports. I personally dont care because i know the Dodgers will still choke either way but this is absolutely terrible for the sport
Dorothy_Mantooth
You are 100% right, airbal! He defers $68M in CA state and local taxes. When he’s done with baseball, he’ll probably move to Florida or another state with no state income taxes, saving him millions.
Not sure what happens (tax wise) if he moves back to Japan.
Kyatt 2
Not for a year. Its 2mill per yr for his 10yr contract. Thus is a guy who wants to win and of course a team that wants to win. It’s his contract, he can do what he wants and it’s not illegal. Go Dodgers
avenger65
Balk: How is this a slap in the face of other clubs? A lot of teams have deferred money contracts. Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera had personal services written into the contract. Pujols had a ten-year personal service contract with the Angels but is with the Cards now. Cabrera will be a special assistant to th
all in the suit that you wear
The Dodgers are the richest team in baseball. It is quite unfair that, on top of that advantage, they are reducing their CBT hit from $70M to $46M per year. What they have done is not against the rules, but the richest team doing this is very unfair from a competitive standpoint and I don’t think that is good for baseball overall. Could a team such as the Rays have swung this deal? If not, it is bad for baseball.
Buckner
I’ll add: when a system “bakes in” more and more arcane rules and guardrails, people will get more and more creative to work around it. True for Little league (too many rules), HS sports and the MLB.
And the IRS.
For all the folks crying “foul” you all sound like Expos fans.
Get over it. Your GM didn’t think of it first.
Kyatt 2
You are definitely wrong on your take. Last year with the Angel’s, Ohtani brought in over 50mill in endorsement alone. Imagine what that number will grow to as a Dodger. Not only that, with accepting 2mill per year, he won’t be taxed as much. I see why you say Dodgers will be crippled after he retires but if you think about it, after 10yrs, the team value will be way up and the money value for Ohtani contract will be way down. Inflation 10yrs from now will be crazy. It’s smart business by both sides really
BlueSkies_LA
The real number is actually $700m. The present value of that $700m over the time it’s paid out is $460m. This is also a real number. Neither of them are publicity stunts.
This one belongs to the Reds
This will prove Manfred is in the large market owners pockets if this is allowed to stand.
Spaced-Cowboy
Well it essentially circumvents the Luxury Tax so there should be a lot of issues with this amount of deferred money.
vpsd
They don’t though. MLB has different debt service ratios per team/market.
Most teams would not be allowed to take on this much long term debt by mlb.
BlueSkies_LA
The Dodgers certainly can’t afford to buy whoever at whatever price. They are a corporate partnership with several stakeholders run as a for-profit business. This was a business decision.
Bill Bertolotti
True. How is this interest-free or not subject to being in a fund or something? $680 million is just paper over the next ten years to the Dodgers. They dont have to commit the money now. And from Shohei’s perspective, he cant invest it on his own and make a conservative 6% return…which would make him anywhere from $45-65m MORE every year for 10 years…Makes ZERO sense regardless if its within the CBA rules
BlueSkies_LA
It isn’t debt because it isn’t borrowed.
❤️ MuteButton
Let me guess, you’re a Dodger fan?
BrianStrowman9
The difference is that Judges deal was 14 years long which ran until he was 45. I would imagine they figured e was tacking on another 4 years to lower the AAV hit that. I think if Judge was Soto’s age or they structured it like this then it would’ve been a different story. This is still a historic contract. Way less than the sticker price appears though.
Do we know that the Padres attempted to structure a deal like this? The only qualms would be if they attempted the same structure and were denied. The Nats are still paying $15MM per in deferred salary to Scherzer on top of the $40 he’s making.
vpsd
Shohei screwed over his fellow players. As the best player in the league you have a responsibility to set the market, not to take a deal that only you can afford because of the amount of sponsorship revenue you have.
Lebron would have been burned at the stake if he did this. MLBPA is pissed right now.
SuperSloth
Get off your high horse. Who made you the arbiter of morality? Give me a break.
Yankee Clipper
Astros: If all other teams can’t do it then why have so many? The teams that have implemented this the MOST are Orioles, Nationals (who tried again with $440MM to Soto) & the Mets.
But Royals did it with Brett, Boston has done it multiple times, Reds did it with Griffey, who’s still getting 3.6MM/year, etc, etc, etc. Even Jim Leyland had money deferred.
This is a practice as established as contractual negotiations.
all in the suit that you wear
Buckner: How many teams can defer $680M if they thought of it? Maybe four teams. This is why the rules need to be fixed. The Dodgers don’t need the added competitive advantage of deferring $680M of a $700M contract. The Dodgers doing this is bad for baseball from a competitive standpoint.
Ratherbesailing
Agreed, the raising tide floats all boats.
But in this case it doesn’t, because he can afford to fo this with all his endorsement deals
VinScullysSon
It most definitely counts against their CBT for the 10 years after the contract. Not sure how you’d think otherwise. When you add up the CBT hit for all 20 years it will equal $700 million in total.
revolver
Manfred could reject this subterfuge under the power of the good for the game. This is a black eye on the game.
jasonthebuc
He offered the same concessions to every team he met with.
Yankee Clipper
Reds: My friend, you guys are still paying Griffey because you deferred his payments…… it has been allowed to stand for the Reds so they could nab Griffey.
paddyo furnichuh
As they both have apprently agreed on the contract, it’s irrelevant.
BrianStrowman9
Yes. The dodgers owe $700Mm to Ohtani no matter what.
A PV calc is assuming a discount rate for a series of Cash Flows. Things could change economically that makes this value differ from the value we place on those series of cash flows today. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Dodgers would still owe him $700MM.
revolver
Sure he can but he won’t. He has virtually unlimited powers under the ” good of the game clause.”
revolver
That 68 million will not count towards the CBT hit
vpsd
Rest of the league is going to hate him. He screwed them over. That is a fact
Mickey Solis
Great moral person? Are you kidding me? He took the most money to play for the biggest market team and signed up for the easy ring in a city that couldn’t give two hoots about sports. He is a total sellout, and before you tell me I’d do it too, when it’s that much money, yes you can actually consider taking slightly less (in relative terms) to play for a team that hasn’t won as much recently instead of going full LeBron and trying to build a super team.
Astros2017&22Champs
All teams have done variations of it sure. How many have deferred 68 million of a 70 million aav? They added a superstar player and get to pay him the minimum practically. Its wholly unfair abd why the NFL is king
kidnova
That’s not how it works. That tax impact is NPV’d, that’s why it’s only counting $43 million against the cap during the term of the contract.
Mickey Solis
Exactly. He wants to join a super team and hog as many World Series titles as he can for a team that hasn’t won a legit one since 1988.
Buckner
@ all in the suit — Start with the Washington Nationals, perhaps the poorest run team on the East Coast. They gave Scherzer a$250 million contract and deferred 50% of the deal. And that was a few years ago.
“Bad for baseball from a competitive standpoint” is a weak argument. When enough barriers and rules get put in place, it is human nature to find ways around them. True for Little League, true for HS and college sports.
And apparently true for MLB. Oh, and especially true for the IRS.
Human. Nature.
Just too bad your GM didn’t get creative in putting together a deal like this, I guess.
JoeBrady
It most definitely counts against their CBT for the 10 years after the contract. Not sure how you’d think otherwise. When you add up the CBT hit for all 20 years it will equal $700 million in total.
=========================
Incorrect on every count.
Buckner
@Thank_God_We_Arent_Angels — you mad about something, bro?
Buckner
I heard the A’s offered Ohtani $1 per year for 700 million years.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Nope, anyone could have done this. But good luck finding another player willing to give up $257mm of present value dollars the way Shohei just did. All that to win. Guy is a winner. His contract as structured is the equivalent of a 10 year $282 million discounted at 10% discount rate.
all in the suit that you wear
Buckner: How many teams can afford to defer $680M to one player? Maybe four. They are the richest teams and giving them this added competitive advantage is unfair. If only a few teams are CAPABLE of deferring $680M to one player it is in fact unfair and the rules need to be changed. The Dodgers are the richest team in baseball. They don’t need the added competitive advantage of reducing a CBT tax hit from $70M to $46M. I don’t think this is good for baseball.
robw5555
I am sure Ohtani was 100% on board with this idea regardless of how it came together. If he can bypass CA state income tax, then it makes perfect sense.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Sure he also defers tax to later years (time value of $ works both ways) but he is losing $257mm of present value (pre-tax) contract value. Net net he’s not better off financially. He’s taking a big hit. He clearly wants to win.
LordD99
That’s not correct, Jobu. Maybe there were rumors of that, or maybe they had some weird structure that went beyond standard deferrals, but the CBA guarantees that the Dodgers and Ohtani can do this. It’s written out quite clearly.
Tigers3232
@Simm, obviously they want to avoid the tax and they also were not willing to pay a true $70M annually. The true cost to the Dodgers is going to be roughly $45M annually when funding principal the deferred $ each year.
This likely is palatable fo Ohtani due to the crazy endorsement $ he has been making. It’s a very unique situation, but we are talking a very unique player. It’s kind of fitting for it to be this way. Ohttani is so unique not just as a 2 way player but also a true superstar both here and in Asian markets.
robw5555
They will buy every 300 Million dollar player until they win 10 World Series in a row. ALl ticket prices will be tripled. Dodgers dogs will be 10.00. Parking 50.00 self park $150 Valet.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Dollars wise this contract is the equivalent of a 10 year $282 million dollar contract. Sure that will take away a chunk of teams but plenty of teams can afford this. Stash away a chunk of money each year that you’re saving on the deferral and invest it so that you can afford the payments in latter years. You are after all paying him $2mm for the first 10 years.
It’s not that this opportunity is unique to the Dodgers but rather Ohtani is unique for taking on such a contract. Sure, his off the field endorsements affords him the opportunity to do so, but plenty of greedy athletes out there who would not do this. not at this scale.
Tigers3232
@Mikey It gives me hope seeing a rare person who truly understands the financial aspect of this. Reading the comments on multiple platforms I truly hope these people see an advisor for help with their 401ks. The financial illiteracy is scary.
kerperdog37
The estimate he will make $50 million in endorsements, that’s $500 million for 10 years then he gets another 630 million on top of that. Trust me he’s not playing for peanuts.
Tigers3232
@bkbk, the principal of deferred $ has to be funded at time of deferral. These are in no way just unbacked promises for the future.
The true issue is small market teams do not sign players to large enough contracts where deferrals become appealing to them. With or without deferred $ financial disparity is still the same.
Jaysfansince92
Based on what I read up there it lowers the present day value to around 460 million if the cap hit is only going to be 46 million per year.
Jaysfansince92
In theory other clubs could do it, but no other player will agree to it
mlbdodgerfan2015
You sure he bypasses CA state income tax? I’m not so sure. Tax advisor may very well have a different answer than yours.
Tigers3232
@MLBDodgers most teams can afford this. And they don’t even have to be disciplined to stash away some $. It is required by MLB that the principal for any deferred $ is funded each season for any deferred $ that season.
Yankee Clipper
George Brett? Griffey Jr.? Rafael Devers? Manny Ramirez? Chris Sale? And more… all were superstar players receiving notable portions deferred.
How is the NFL king? Not because of salaries or caps. It’s because 50% of the league plays in a playoff so it gives the appearance of parity. It’s dominated by only a few teams, however. They are no different, only fans improperly assume it’s “more fair.” Add to that an incredibly short season and those games in-season are more impactful.
Based on your logic why then would soccer (who pays the most outrageous salaries, like Messi) be the most popular sport overall?
cowdisciple
Citation needed. The NPV of the contract gets allocated over the life of the contract. Why would it get allocated to the period after the contract ends?
kerperdog37
My bad, 680.
Fever Pitch Guy
Waldo – You can’t be serious.
The Dodgers have the 2nd-highest revenue in MLB and the highest in the league by a mile over the 2nd-highest Cubs.
You think teams like the Marlins, Reds and Pirates can afford to pay one person $68M a year for a decade starting in 2034?
The whole purpose of the CBT is in the name, “COMPETITIVE BALANCE Tax”.
Obviously it’s not working, there is no competitive balance when teams like the Dodgers and Yankees can outspend everyone else by a country mile.
Jaysfansince92
Actually it does lower the tax hit. It goes by present day value and anytime you defer money down the road the present day value drops.
maxmilna
Oh look a butt hurt jays fan.
User 2079935927
Of course you agree to that. You’re a Dodger fan.
Zerbs63
True Dodgers asked Harper to defer and he said no.
Betts has a lot of deferred money is his contract as well.
Jaysfansince92
@Buckner I’m sure every GM has thought of it, just no player would agree to it. Don’t act like this was some clever move by the Dodgers. They just got lucky that Ohtani was willing to do it and suggested it.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – Minor correction, 2nd-richest in baseball if you are referring to revenue.
Dodgers revenue was $581M last year, Yankees was $657M.
Jaysfansince92
No one has done it anywhere near this degree.
Fever Pitch Guy
Buckner – You might be the only person on the planet who has never heard the term “It takes money to make money”.
A lot of these wealthy guys inherited millions at a young age. If I was given a million bucks 30 years ago, I’d have made at least $100M using that initial gift.
You sound like one of those people who points at someone living in poverty and asks them why they don’t live in a better place.
Buckner
@jaysfansince92 — Not acting like this was a clever move. But to say “just no player would agree to it” is uneducated and naive.
Max Scherzer did this several years ago – deferring half his big deal with the Nats.
mlbdodgerfan2015
You have soccer players who make more than these amounts and they’re trying to squeeze out every last dollar, evading taxes, taking Saudi money, etc. You think they willingly give up $257mm in present value dollars? It’s financially moronic what Shohei is doing.
LordD99
Clipper, there seems to be a contingent of fans who have been convinced that the NFL became the highest revenue generating sport because of salary caps. Meanwhile, MLB is the second highest generating revenue sport in the world (no, not soccer and certainly not the NBA) and it doesn’t have a salary cap. Different sports; different ways to build teams; different revenue sources. Competitive balance, though, is higher than the other professional sports leagues. Owners can try building teams through free agency or by tanking and rebuilding. There is no set way.
In addition to being the second highest revenue generating professional sport, MLB just had it’s highest attendance in six years, TV ratings were up, franchise values are skyrocketing, and a MLB team just handed out the largest guaranteed contract to a professional sports player in any league ever. The game will be expanding to two new markets in a few years. The baseball-is-dying crowd never seems to die, but baseball certainly won’t. Are there things to fix? Sure. Is the game incredibly healthy? Yup.
hiflew
Just because it is legal doesn’t mean it passes the smell test. There are millions of loopholes that have been exploited throughout history in every walk of life that were legal at the time. McGwire’s andro was not technically against the rules in MLB at the time, but he has been punished for it nonetheless.
CCooper8920
You were able to state this in a great way
Yankee Clipper
L99: You’re exactly right my friend. Add to that that these same folks are clamoring for NFL models when the NFL can defer up to 75% of a player’s salary over 2MM! But somehow that rule would prevent this? It’s so strange to die on this hill when the precedent as been well-established for decades.
mlbdodgerfan2015
On Scherzer that’s on a much smaller scale. Ohtani is deferring 97% of a $700mm contract 10 years from now compared to Scherzer deferring 50% of a $210mm contract over 7 years. Scherzer losing out on $36mm of present value dollars compared to Ohtani’s $257mm if you use a discount rate of 10%.
all in the suit that you wear
Fever: Agreed. Well said. Who has the highest revenue in baseball? The Yankees? Maybe we will never know since their books are not open.
Ra
That saying shows an ignorance of how tides work. They always fall.
desertball
Right. So the player about to earn the richest contract in sports history was fleeced by LAD. You sir are an idiot for your comment. Players earn the right to sign the contract of their choice with the team of their choosing. Go watch Chinese baseball
desertball
True. I mean it’s been like 50 years since another team won the WS. NY vs LAD is getting old
l9ydodger
Because it wasn’t their team that signed him. Everyone on here bitching at the Dodgers. Ask your owners & P.O.B.O. why they don’t want to do something like this? Why do they want to horde their fans money and just tread water or sink and constantly say “they need to rebuild”?
Probably where the jealousy and anger actually comes from.
l9ydodger
That’s the thing about being a
“Free Agent”. They’re “free” to negotiate and sign with whoever they want to!
And the owners are free to do whatever they want to with their money.
billbraskey
Tigers fan, here, and so coming at this from the perspective of a smaller market sized team. Yes, other teams can do it, Tigers included. But I would argue the superstars like Ohtani aren’t coming to Detroit in a heavily deferred deal, UNLESS Detroit (or any other small market team is primed to win in the immediate). This approach just allows the rich to get richer, while circumventing the luxury tax. Not good for baseball unless you’re a LAD fan.
thegreatbambi3
i suppose shohei doesn’t mind making 2M a year bc of all the endorsement money he’ll be getting, then getting his playing salary after he’s done playing.
i suppose i don’t care how much he’s getting personally, as long as the dodgers are being fair, and 46M in payroll hit is the highest in MLB so i guess i’m ok with this after all… for now
Balk
This is flat out cheating and disgusting
underdog
How is it “cheating” — feel free to look at CBT rules and let us know. It’s also *still* a $46/million a year hit for them.
It’s up to a player and team to agree what is paid up front vs what is deferred. This is obviously a historic and ludicrous amount of money to be deferring but Ohtani is doing it because he knows he’ll be set for life anyway, brings in a ton in endorsements, and wants to play on a competitive team not hamstrung by him. Any team can do it, including whichever team anyone here roots for, if player and management both can work it out.
mlb fan
“He’ll be getting”…You mean already getting. Ohtani reportedly(MLB Network) made 30M+ in off-field endorsements this year in 2023.
underdog
From the Collective Bargaining Agreement: Article XVI–Deferred Compensation:
“There shall be no limitations on the amount of deferred compensation or the percentage of total compensation attributable to deferred compensation for which a Uniform Player’s Contract may provide.”
Balk
Underdog, 46 mill isn’t 70 mill.
920kodiak
Ted Lerner was deferring money in contracts before deferring was cool.
biffpocoroba
Any team cannot do it if the player doesn’t offer or accept it from them. Did Ohtani’s people make the same offer to the other bidders?
mlb fan
“Flat out cheating”…It’s not cheating. It’s just a unique, one in a million player who can afford to do this. Ohtani has significant off field income; is that the Dodgers fault he’s independently wealthy and not reliant on his playing salary? Everyone knew Ohtani was a “Unicorn” who would attract a unique contract.
underdog
Thank you for the math correction, I thought they were same. 😉 Of course they’re getting a big discount — only saying it’s not like they’re getting only a $2 million a year hit.
Simm
It’s a blatant attempt to avoid the tax that’s why. The same reason you can sign guys to 20 year contracts until they are 50.
Buckner
You like to post replies first, and actually read and understand later I see.
JackStrawb
@Underdog All true, but LAD with penalties is still paying out $46m a year for a decade plus the LT penalties. Ownership is presumably obliged to put a significant portion of the deferred money into an account. No one defers money for 10 to 20 years and just hopes the organization is still around and still solvent AND still has the money sufficient to pay out something like $46 million a year for the following decade.
We can say “they’re the Dodgers! Of course they’ll be around!!” You’d be surprised…
Balk
MLBfan…I don’t care how ohtani gets his money, it’s what it does to the game. This is extreme
Lonniemac
Does it matter? As a free-agent he is free to sign any deal with anyone as long as both parties agree.
JackStrawb
@Balk Why? Ohtani’s deal is roughly 10/$460 million. That’s not far from what most expected he’d get. If anything, it’s low.
UncommonSense
Ignorance breeds contempt
Lloyd Emerson
Technically it’s not cheating if it’s within the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, but yes it is absolutely disgusting and lots of expletives that we’re not allowed to type here.
gnomon
How so? Any team could do this, but they can’t because most players would never accept that much of the contract deferred.. Just a perfect storm of circumstances for the Dodgers., and good for them.
agentx
Balk, the two are closer than you think considering the actual value of this deal in present-day dollars is $460MM (ergo, the $46MM per year CBT hit)..
That $700MM number includes only $20MM in near-term dollars. The remaining $680MM paid in 2034-2043 will “only” be worth an estimated $440MM in present-day dollars after 10-20 years of inflation.
JoeBrady
you can sign guys to 20 year contracts until they are 50.
==========================
Incorrect.
revolver
All contracts are guaranteed by MLB if a team folds the league is on the hook.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Yes, but most athletes would not do that. They’d try to squeeze as much money as possible. There are a few that have taken less like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. for similar reasons to build a more talented team but not to this magnitude in one contract.
mlbdodgerfan2015
No, because he wanted to play for the Dodgers. Why is that so hard to understand. We can also put to rest the argument that Ohtani was money grubbing and gave the Dodgers authority to match any deal. He was willing to take a lot less to play for the Dodgers.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Go consult with a tax advisor the amount of money he’s losing from deferrals far outweigh tax deferrals.
mlbdodgerfan2015
It’s very different. Let’s say that the deal was $700mm over 20 years straight up. MLB may have rejected that kind of contract if they deemed that the Dodgers were just trying to artificially lower the AAV. AAV would be $35mm versus the $46mm it is now. Also, Ohtani in such a 20 year deal makes a lot more in present value versus contract as structured now. An additional $125mm over life of contract. Both Dodgers and Ohtani would have been incentivized to do a deal this way. But guess what it likely is rejected by MLB.
Horace Fury
My sentiment exactly. Is the league really going to allow such obvious gaming of the CBT rules? I believe the league would disallow a contract for $700MM over 20 years–how is this different?
raisinsss
This was my point in the other thread.
They are admittedly gaming the system.
Do something, mlb
NickTheDev
That would be a 35M CBT hit, this is 46 so they are calculating it differently because of the deferral. It does still seem like quite the the discount though, but it’s absolutely not cheating if its not against the rules.
bag o ballz
they have the historical precedent to do it – specifically with the dodgers. if you remember when this group took over they gamed the cbt and triggered the league to make the repeat offenders rule after the dodgers were shrugging and just paying the full tax every year.
Clayton Russell
Ohtani is giving the Dodgers a free 10 year 68MM loan each season he plays. The interest he is forgoing is subtracted from the total amount for the purposes of the CBT. There is nothing sinister here and any team or player can do this if they are willing to wait to get paid.
Yankee Clipper
Here’s the difference: with players having contracts until they’re 50, they take up roster spots and have rights in MLB as players. They don’t want old men taking up roster positions, clogging up teams, with rights in the CBA at advanced ages.
However, in this case Ohtani is only committed for ten years, and his playing days/ rights will end at year 10.
Again, Daniel Murphy, George Brett, David Wright, Chris Davis, Ken Griffey Jr, Manny Ramirez, Rafael Devers, Diaz, everybody on the Nationals roster, Chris Sale, and on and on and on…..
It’s nothing new. Ohtani just doesn’t care about getting his money up front and the Jays we’re trying to do the same thing, reportedly. What’s unique is Ohtani leaving all the money until later to collect, which no other player has been willing to do.
Clayton Russell
Based on the numbers it looks like they’re only using about 5% as the interest rate. Take 44000000 and increase it by 5% per year and in about ten years you end up close to 68000000. Then add back in the 2 he made initially and you get 70. Looks pretty clean to me. If anything, 5% seems low to me.
JackStrawb
@bag o ballz The Dodgers didn’t game the system, though. The system failed to realize how rich rich teams were, and what they were willing to do to win.
JackStrawb
Sort of, with the bizarro provision that they can pay back the ‘loan’ in 2034-2043 (ie much less valuable) dollars
Clayton Russell
Personally, I just dropped 44000000 into an excel column and then multiplied by 1.05 in row 2, and then multiplied row 2 by 1.05 in row 3, etc up to row 10. I end up with 68258441.5
JackStrawb
@Clayton Russell There’s also the question of which benchmark to use—how about star salaries for MLB players? That has to be growing faster than 5%.
It’ll be interesting to see whether MLB assesses penalties based on the article’s information. If they do, it means the Dodgers and Ohtani used MLB’s figures to calculate the actual agreement, Perhaps their % numbers were close and it was simpler to agree by using MLB’s figures? Though that doesn’t sound like any lawyer I’ve ever known.
JackStrawb
@Kershaw’s Lesser Known Right Arm Most organizations estimate inflation rates as most organizations pay or are receiving payments in the future. The US Fed calculates inflation rates going out x years, it offers T-Bills going out ten years for eample where it calculates an annual inflation rate which is public information…. A lot of organizations use federal rates tied to T-Bills or other investments, often adding a percent or two for luck, if you will—or because their industries have somewhat different factors than the Fed uses.
It may be that MLB uses a federal rate, or ties in some of its own calculations to figure out how to calculate deferred salaries for the sake of calculating tax payments for teams going over the Luxury Tax threshold.
gnomon
You’re acting like no other team can do this. ANY team can do this, but frankly, not many players would ever accept that kind of deal. Dodgers got their man, and Ohtani got the team he wanted to play for.
hossmandu
Kershaw – It’s simple time-value-of-money. They take the amount of the deferral and apply a discount rate, because a dollar today is worth significantly more than a dollar 10 years from now.
Example:
Assuming the deferrals are equally distributed over the 10 years.
Yr 1 deferral $68mm for 10 years.
I don’t know the actual rate, but it would be very common for them to use the IRS Applicable Federal Rate (AFR). Since the deferral is over 9 years, they would use the “Long-Term” AFR, which for December 2023 is 5.03%.
Present value formula:
Present Value = Future Value/(1+Interest Rate)to the Nth power. N = # of years.
Ohtani’s deferral Present Value:
PV = 68,000,000/(1+0.0503)to the 10th power
PV = 68,000,000/(1.o503) to the 10th power
PV = 68,000,000/1.644
PV = 41,362,530.41
Add that to the $2mm he gets paid, plus all ancillary benefits (for Ohtani that would include translation services, suites on the road, nutrition services, and any other benefits in the contract) that are added for purposes of calculating the CBT amount and you get very close to the $46mm reported.
hossmandu
Jack – it’s very much more likely they use the IRS Applicable Federal Rate (AFR) which is typically used to calculate the value of loans between private (non-bank) entities/persons. In this case, because the loan is 10 years they would use the Long Term AFR rate, which for December 2023 is 5.03%
Ohtani’s deferral Present Value:
PV = 68,000,000/(1+0.0503)to the 10th power
PV = 68,000,000/(1.o503) to the 10th power
PV = 68,000,000/1.644
PV = 41,362,530.41
Add that to the $2mm he gets paid, plus all ancillary benefits (for Ohtani that would include translation services, suites on the road, nutrition services, and any other benefits in the contract) that are added for purposes of calculating the CBT amount and you get very close to the $46mm reported.
JoeBrady
what formula is used to calculate?
=============================
I believe it is 4.43%, less any interest that the club has to pay on the deferred about. Using the present value both ways.
lonestarball.com/2023/12/11/23996986/deferred-mone…
mlbdodgerfan2015
Because 99.99% of players would not do this. Most players don’t have the marketing power that Ohtani does as he has dual endorsement opportunities from US/Japan. Also, most players wouldn’t take such a big financial hit to do this. So, MLB can re-write the rules but this is a very rare occurrence.
all in the suit that you wear
This is rare so far. I would not be surprised to see Yamamoto go to the Dodgers for a 10 year, $300M deal with $200M deferred or something like that.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Looks like they’re calculating the payouts with deferrals and discounting it by approximately 2.8% to arrive at the $460mm over 10 years, or $46mm CBT hit. The ~2.8% must be some kind of inflation number. MLB would have rejected a 20 year deal for $700mm with AAV/CBT of $35mm/yr. At least the $46mm/yr is above that.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
Now this is kind of wild. Have Never seen a contract like this.
robw5555
He wanted it that way. Now does the league allow this? This is something completely new.
haighwiser
This contract smelled like a complete pile of dog sh^* as soon as they said deferred money. Details of it have trickled out and been vague, this shouldn’t be allowed to fly. They need to take the hit like every other team would. I don’t care if Shoehi is cool with it or not it’s BS.
gnomon
You’re acting like they’re not taking a massive CBT hit. $46M per year is still more than any other player in the league. Don’t be mad at the Dodgers because by all accounts, they were prepared to give him the full deal without major deferrals.
Citizen1
Then close the loopholes. Red Sox signed Adrian Gonzalez one year to an extension one day after opening day, avoiding opening day luxury tax.
roob
Dumbest comments on sports sites. This is nothing short of brilliant on Ohtani’s part and in the Dodgers part.
Both will be extremely successful. The greatest player that ever lived will get to play in multiple World Series and they both win.
JerryCavender
Unless he gets a career ending injury early in the contract OR can only pitch another year or two due to injuries. Two elbow surgeries already. I wouldn’t want my team to do this deal. Hope it works out for Dodger fans but with his past injuries I seriously doubt it.
JackStrawb
@roob Cool! I had no idea Willie Mays was coming out of retirement.
Willie has at least 6 seasons better than Ohtani’s best year, and Willie called games from CF using the position of his glove that the catcher would relay to the Giants pitcher. Ohtani Shmotani.
Buckner
@Roob – Absolutely right.
roob
You know nothing at all about baseball.
The Big Yo
Aaaaammmmmmm!!! The money is always there. They get away with it because it’s America
glenn mclean
Agree.. Similar thing was/is being done in the EPL Chelsea in particular… Moves have been made to stop this practice acroos the pond.. Watch for more “creative” moves/signings coming until MLB stops it..
JerryCavender
Should be illegal and will probably lead to problems with the next bargaining agreement but the Dodgers don’t care. It’s all about them. At least half shouldn’t be able to be deferred.
Buckner
@JerryCavender:
1. Flags fly forever. Ask the Astros.
2. “should be illegal” is being said all over this evening by plenty of naive fans of teams not named the Dodgers. Could have been your guy. And I am *NOT* a Dodger fan.
JoeBrady
Could have been your guy.
===================
my RS deferred some of Devers and Sale’s salary. There are probably a lot more teams doing this than people realize.
Fever Pitch Guy
Im – I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, don’t be surprised if the team is sold before 2034.
The wealthy are wealthy because they know how to bend the rules and outsmart others.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I don’t know, seems like lately a lot of wealthy people are exceedingly stupid…i.e. Elmo Musk.
JoeBrady
1-The liability stays with the team and lowers the net proceeds. A prospective buyer is not going to overlook a $700M liability.
2-The LAD aren’t bending the rules or outsmarting anyone. The RS did this with Sale before the LAD did it with either Betts or Ohtani, and we certainly weren’t the first to do so.
Beff Jagwell
This will be very damaging to the sport. It’s one thing to defer 10 million, but this is absolute sanity. And on top of that, the Dodgers get away with murd*r on the luxury pack.
Beff Jagwell
Luxury tax*
all in the suit that you wear
Ladies and Gentlemen….the Los Angeles Defers.
LordD99
Very simple. Both sides — MLB and the MLBPA — agreed this can be done. It’s written into the CBA. It reads: “There shall be no limitations on either the amount of deferred compensation or the percentage of total compensation attributable to deferred compensation for which a Uniform Player’s Contract may provide.”
The Dodgers will still have to pay him $700 million and Ohtani will collect his $700 million. The rest is all accounting language and schedule.
all in the suit that you wear
I’m guessing only the Dodgers and a few other teams could afford to defer $680M which tells me it is not fair from a competitive standpoint. I understand it is within the rules, but I think is unfair and bad for baseball.
Doral Silverthorn
the Dodgers aren’t they only team deferring money. Stop hating the team. Hate the process.
all in the suit that you wear
Yes, the rules need to be fixed as maybe only 4 teams can afford to defer $680M to one player. Those 4 teams do not need this added competitive advantage. Giving the richest team this added advantage over poorer teams is bad for baseball in my opinion.
LordD99
And is the process bad?
JoeBrady
It isn’t the deferral that cannot be afforded, It is the salary. The Oakland A’s could float a $1B salary if it is $1M/year paid over a thousand years. The $680M is meaningless.
ibuititnoonecame
I don’t see how the players association would sign off on this. They would not let arod reduce his salary to be traded to Red Sox. Defered money is less than present day money.
gardyparty
WHY ARE YOU PPL CONFUSED ABOUT THIS!! IT’S NOT NEW! It’s just a bigger contract with more generous deferrals on behalf of the PLAYER. I really don’t get it.
Robertowannabe1
What now
Airbal
Time for dodgers to sign Yamamoto and watch all these Dodger haters go crazy. Let’s go big blue
amanateeamongmen
I’m not even a Dodgers fan and I love this.
gardyparty
@Airbal Yankees are getting Yamamoto.
Degaz
Crazy…but it’s still a $46M hit to cap space. It’s also about what I predicted. We know from Edwin Diaz contract his cap hit was about 65% of his salary because of deferrals and this is almost exactly that percentage as well. I’m actually surprised it was this much of a hit.
Degaz
Also in terms of REAL money and yearly depreciation and lack of interest his contract is gonna end up way less than Trout’s. I’m shocked any agent would let him sign this.
Quick math his contract will only end up being $28M a year in 2023 dollars based on a conversatiive loss of 10% a year or 3% inflation and 7% lack of interest/investment potential. Which is on the low side. Could be as much as 20% loss a year if you just invest ed in QQQ or SPR ETF’s.
JackStrawb
@thegreatbambi3 I’m finally interested in the Ohtani sweepstakes.
$2m a year is genuinely amusing.
A small apartment, clip coupons, avoid a daily mocha latte—and you just might pull off LA for $2m a year.
—This doesn’t feel like a cheat; not on first blush, anyway. With inflation, by the time the real money begins arriving in 2034 and runs out in 2043, it really will be (very) roughly $46 million (though that number varies wildly depending on your assumptions. Try it with a 3% inflation rate, then with an 8% inflation rate. Try it using the annual increase for star salaries in bb since 2010, say).
Why should the Dodgers pay more than that for CBT purposes, using the valid inflation rate MLB projects for future years?
The only error was announcing this with certainty as a $700 million deal—when it is, but it isn’t.
stymeedone
So you’re saying he will have to think twice about getting the HBO package?
Degaz
Yep…$2M in California will barely buy you a cup of coffee these days, It’s tent city for Shohei I[‘m afraid. Tip him a few if you see him please…
GreenMonsta
I saw him buying a tent over near Skid Row.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
The Dodgers are acting just like our politicians…nobody is going to be around in 2034 to worry about it because of either climate change, nuclear annihilation, and/or The Rapture. Radical Short-termism. Party up in the present, because the future is uncharted waters.
FSF
What they’re saying is that it’s worse than Canadian money.
runningwithnailclippers
The rich just get richer. That is the way it is in Merica.
No Salary Cap For You! (Come Back One Year)
Uhh try The World.
LordD99
Everyone is rich in MLB.
FireMarinersMgmt
Granted I just watched Killers of the Flower Moon….(and I mean no ill-will towards anyone)…but…
What If Ohtani disappears in 10 years? What if his wife disappears? What if some gringo marries into the family and knocks off other successors in the line for the throne? Dramatic I know..
Ridiculous thoughts, but ridiculous scenario! I think I’m done with MLB baseball…The $ was crazy-talk, but now the specifics around delivery of the $ is even crazier. When it was just a game…
JackStrawb
@FireMarinersMgmt The contract will have provisions assigning the amount owed to Ohtani;s “assignees and successors.” There will be some provision that payments go to Ohtani’s wills’ trustee who then pays it out to whomever Ohtani has designated.
There’s standard contract language for this kind of thing.
gardyparty
@FireMarinersMgmt AMAZING movie
ohyeadam
Dodgers are exploiting a bug in the CBA programming
JackStrawb
@ohyeadam They’re not. They’re deferring money on a huge contract. They’re still being assigned the present day value of a contract being paid off in 2034-2043 for LT purposes, namely $46m per year for 2024-2033, which is the value of the money Ohtani will receive. There’s no cheating here. No bug. Just a huge deferment.
LordD99
It’s not a bug. It’s an agreed to feature. As I posted above, the CBA that both sides agreed to reads:
“There shall be no limitations on either the amount of deferred compensation or the percentage of total compensation attributable to deferred compensation for which a Uniform Player’s Contract may provide.”
Sabermetrix
MLB Salary Tax Evasion at its finest, every owner that should of received a shred of that luxury tax money should be up in arms.
What a dumb arse deferral clause.
Simm
If the mlb approves this mandfraud should be removed immediately
Dodger Dog
It’s in the CBA it’s legal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
myaccount2
That’s not true. It can definitely be voided. And it should be. He should have to re-work it to something fair.
Dodger Dog
Article XVI, it’s allowed
njbirdsfan
Fine. Just don’t come crying when some other team does it.
I mean, it’s not like we have to worry about the Dodgers doing anything in the playoffs.
Last I checked, Arizona beat you. It’s written down. I guess that means they’re better (shrug)
maxmilna
This pretty much ensures that bs won’t happen again.
LordD99
It’s already been done. Both sides agreed to it. It’s in the CBA. The total dollars is large, but there have been players who have deferred half their deals.
PittPirate22
Don’t let facts get in the way of butt hurt fans!
Joe says...
It isn’t that bad. They still have a $46 million hit for 9 years after he retires.
Simm
Nah this saves them a 10’s of millions a year.
spudchukar
And allows them the cash for others creating the greatest assembly of talent ever. Come play on our team, we will pay you plenty, you just have to defer a bunch of cash. Yamamoto, Bellinger, Martinez, Some SS. Snell, Matsui.
SheaGoodbye
You think Ohtani would be stupid enough to suggest a deal that would cost him 10s of millions a year? Really?
Habitual Truth Teller
Stupid? No
But he’s banking on endorsements to make up for money he’s leaving on the table in the mlb.
Simm
That’s actually not all true either. If it’s deemed by the commissioner to be a tax dodge he can not approve of the deal. He wasn’t going to approve the padres deal with judge last year because of years. Why because it was for dodging the tax.
robw5555
It definitely is a tax dodge. That is clear. I think he wants to be out of the state of CA when its paid in full.
Poolhalljunkies
Wait till they have 75 mil between 40 year old betts and ohtani lol
LordD99
Is that the hope of fans of other teams? Just you wait!
DugoutJester
At the rate of inflated contracts, that will be absolutely nothing by then.
920kodiak
Amen, brother.
bag o ballz
46mm in 10 years is worth a lot less than it is worth right now
haighwiser
I think this is as much as Ohtani trying to dodge CA state income tax as it is Dodgers, dodging the luxury tax. Income tax in Japan 45%
Over 40 million yen. CA 12% anything over $700k and Fed tax 37% anything over $600k.
Buckner
@haighwaiser – Ohtani has good advisors. Avoiding the tax hit is huge.
Degaz
Yes the cap hit is still a lot but in 2023 dollars Dodgers are only paying him about $28M a year. really dumb by Shohei….
Dodgers can take that $68M a year and stick it in a guaranteed 10-Year US bond at 5% and grow that to $108M in 10 years. Would make much MUCH more even by just putting that money in SPR or QQQ ETF’s
Who here would agree to just 3% of your salary…and the remaining 97% to pre paid in 10-20 years? LOL
Buckner
@Degaz — Please come back when you understand math.
Jaysfansince92
It’s actually around 46 million per year they are paying him in 2023 dollars.
Robertowannabe
The 68/yr is for 10 years starts 2034 season through 2043. that would be 10.
ckc12537
agree.
JoeBrady
What possible interest would Manfred have in a player offering to defer $68M of his salary?
When this started, people were speculating that he would get paid $500-600M. Now it is “only” $460M. Why would ownership complain about that?
just_thinkin
What in the world
Van Lingle Mungo
He has set himself up nice for retirement and he’s going to be making $100 million a year in endorsements anyway.
Fred
He’s already set himself up for a “nice” retirement prior to signing this deal. The dodgers used deferments in the deal specifically to circumvent luxury taxes and anything else used as an excuse is horseshit.
Bnickles127
Dafuk
Dbacks
Gonna be worth less later due to inflation
ckc12537
Duh. That’s literal basic finance.
Rishi
To say it is “basic finance” as if Inflation is a given in an economy is absurd. Inflation is merely a product of borrowing/printing money without any reference to markets. It is actually quite successful if you are a financier and want to slowly suck the wealth from a nation by loaning it money backed by nothing but paper and faith which then floods the market and lowers the value of the dollars in supply via supply and demand which increases the price of goods while salaries never raise enough to compensate. Add to that the interest to the money borrowed and you are practically enslaved by debt. Add to all this the possibility that the politicians wanting to borrow this money were possibly financed by the same people who stand to benefit from loaning out the money and you have a circus I call USA.
ckc12537
ok lol
HalosHeavenJJ
He got paid more in total dollars because of this.
Most people figured he’d get $550 million or so. He’s getting this extra $100 million or so in total value because he deferred so much.
Simm
Exactly
Ranger Danger19
Bobby Bonilla has to be considering coming out of retirement.
Roguesaw2
Bobby is like, no interest? Shohei!
Robertowannabe
Give it time. Me thinks this will get renegotiated like Bobby’s did and there will be interest added for more years of payment. Even with inflation, 46 mil a year counting against the CBT hit is a big chunk of change for a guy not playing.
HalosHeavenJJ
Or……Ohtani decides to take his $680 million in an ownership stake in the team.
Obviously this couldn’t be in any written contract, but:
1. Active players aren’t allowed to have ownership in teams.
2. He’ll likely no longer be an active player
3. This is a ton of money we’re talking about $680 million.
He’ll make at least $40 million per year off endorsements and have loads of cash while he plays.
I just want to throw this out there in case it happens. I’ll pull up this thread a decade from now and act like I’m a genius.
LordD99
The Bonilla contract is bad (for the club) because of the guaranteed 8% interest. That was back when the Wilpon’s thought they could get 11% a year doing business with Madoff. They thought they were being smart and were turning Bonilla’s contract into profit for them. That all crumbled when Madoff got caught, and since no one gets guaranteed 8%, it’s turned into a money loser. In this case, there’s no interest on the deferred money, so unlike Bonilla’s deal, Ohtani’s deal benefits the team with deferrals.
JackStrawb
@Underdog All true, but LAD with penalties is still paying out $46m a year for a decade plus the LT penalties. Ownership is presumably obliged to put a significant portion of the deferred money into an account. No one defers money for 10 to 20 years and just hopes the organization is still around and still solvent AND still has the money sufficient to pay out something like $46 million a year for the following decade.
We can say “they’re the Dodgers! Of course they’ll be around!!” You’d be surprised…
JackStrawb
@HalosHeavenJJ Except that he’s not getting paid more because of this. He’s not getting an extra “$100 million or so.’
Money in the future nearly always declines in value. Ohtani will be making roughly $480 million in 2023 dollars once he’s been paid off. (If inflation skyrockets it might be $380 million. If inflation returns to 2010s rates, it might be $580 million. )
HalosHeavenJJ
You’re saying the same thing in a different way.
He’s getting about what we expected him to get. It is just crafted in a way to save the Dodgers cash flow and luxury tax dollars during his playing career.
Had Ohtani insisted on being paid over the 10 years the actual number would’ve been closer to the $500 million we all expected.
swagsuperawesomeepiccoolman123
absolutely crazy…
ClevelandSteelEngines
Does this impact how much he has to pay tax? Instead of being paid a lot of money to play in all the different states. Can’t he move to a tax haven and receive those payments avoiding issues normal players run into?
good vibes only
CSE yes I think you are correct
GhostofRandySavage
Rule changes incoming
Halo11Fan
One can only hope.
Dodger Dog
Would require a renegotiated CBA, want another lockout?
GhostofRandySavage
Sure, if that’s what it takes. Baseball needs more parity and it’s severely going in the wrong direction.
kripes-brewers
Yes, and while they’re at it maybe they can figure out what to do about broadcast rights/fees so the teams are playing on a level field!
Doral Silverthorn
yes. Ohtani should have signed with Oakland.
gardyparty
$46M toward the CBT is still vastly greater than any other player. Seems like a good contract for both sides.
Simm
That doesn’t matter, they aren’t paying crap if they say stay under the tax they are paying 2m a year. If they go over the tax it’s still not costing them nearly what he should. At 70, they would be paying that plus the 70m towards the tax this deal would have cost them 100m a year. Instead it’s peanuts.
This is the biggest pile of tax dodging ever.
Technically correct
For an entire generation of fans, the team name finally makes sense.
Balk
Exactly, this gives them more money to add to there roster for the next few years. This is cheating
Jabronie23
I don’t think that’s how it works. When they’re calculating the Dodgers’ year end payroll for the CBT, Ohtani’s salary will be listed as $46m, not $2m
bag o ballz
yes but they still make 68mm on it – meaning that if they go over the tax they are still paying less money – it is just a credit card with negative interest because the salary will be worth less at the end of the contract.
aragon
That is still too much less than what it should be.
Simm
His salary will be 2m, tax number is 46m. Which means nothing if they don’t go over the tax. If they do then it still keeps them from the highest of penalties. This could have cost the dodgers well over 100m a year. Now it’s a small fraction of that.
Jabronie23
I sort of agree, but it’s really not that much less than I would have expected going into the off-season. He was originally predicted to get a contract in the $500m range and some of that was probably always going to be deferred. The actual value of his “$700m” deal is a LOT lower because of inflation. All in all, the Dodgers are probably getting away with a tax dodge in the $5-10m range per year, which obviously still isn’t good, but not as bad as it appears
braves fan 138
exactly
Yankee Clipper
Simm, which team is the one you root for, out of curiosity?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Simm is a Padres fan.
99socalfrc
It’s also $24m less per year than what he is actually earning. This is a total crock of you know what.
Halo11Fan
The Dodgers are paying him two million this year.
Enough said.
orange2001
Not just this season, but *every* season for the 10 years.
Cards78
Only if he can stay healthy and I’m not sure the pitching part can hold up for another 10 years. Time will tell!
Ann Porkins
That seems a little excessive. This is a slippery slope of luxury tax dodging that I’m sure less-spendy owners will want to address by the next CBA negotiations.
onbase_plus_hugging
Dodgers living up to their name.
Ann Porkins
niiiiiice 😉
AM21
This is horseshit.
Tyson’s Pet Tiger
lol why?
myaccount2
Not sure about Alexander’s reasoning, but I don’t like it because it’s a manipulation of the luxury tax system and is something only a handful of teams can pull off.
Habitual Truth Teller
Its clear manipulation of the competitive balance tax.
Here’s the 1st line penalties the next couple of years
2022: $230 million.
2023: $233 million.
2024: $237 million.
2025: $241 million.
2026: $244 million.
By the time 10 years passes the 1st CBT line will be upwards of 250-260 mill (up 30+ mill from 2024).
Pushing Ohtani’s cbt hit down the road
1. circumvents current cbt tax penalties in 2024
2. circumvents future cbt tax penalties.2034 and onward since its increasing in base line.
Its blatant manipulation of the system.
braves fan 138
100%
Anthony maresca
Bingo I am certain mlb gets involved and forces changes to this structure. Every team is going to take advantage of this system and then what? If they allow Dodgers to proceed then they must let other teams follow suit.
Clayton Russell
The cbt in 2034 has nothing to do with this. They are charged against the cbt only for the years he’s signed to play. The 46 per year will count for the 10 years and then it will drop off to nothing unless he signs an extension.
A Seal
There are tax hits of 46 million/year for while Ohtani is playing, and no tax hits for the 2030s and 40s. It’s not pushing the CBT hit down the road at all.
Ncsaint
It doesn’t push the hit down the road. They still pay the tax in the ten years of his contract, and only in those years. But the amount is not $70 million, it’s $46, because the Dodgers are hanging on to it interest free for a decade.
Habitual Truth Teller
The deferred money is to be paid out without interest from 2034 to 2043. This will reportedly reduce the CBT hit of the contract to around $46MM per year.
Deferred money counts against cbt the years you’re paying a player
Jaysfansince92
@A Seal first person to get it right!
Ncsaint
No, it’s for the years to which the attribution is attributed. He will count as 46 even though they are paying him two for the ten years. He will not count towards the tax at all in the years they are actually paying him most of his salary.
Doral Silverthorn
He’s still gonna be in the Dodgers lineup this season no matter how mad you are.
shortstop
How on earth is this not considered circumventing the luxury tax?
sabernar
It is, but MLB doesn’t care
BlueSkies_LA
Because it’s explicitly allowed. So that would be the reason.
Cam
Exactly – it’s provisioned for in the CBA, and no matter how many fans don’t like it, it’s perfectly within the rules. Any team can do it – there’s just a lot of bitterness from fans of teams that don’t.
Jaysfansince92
Why was it not going to be allowed for the Padres. This is far more CBT evasion then that would have been.
James Midway
What a joke.
Caligula
J Pow increasing inflation to bail out the Dodgers
Cheating the System
What a ridiculous loophole. MLB needs to adjust this retroactively.
reno24
Just unreal wow
Poolhalljunkies
Still 46 mil is a monster hit..but agree deferring all but 2 mil is totally gaming the system
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Why would anyone accept that deal?
99socalfrc
Because he will make more than he can spend in a year on endorsements. So live off that for 10 years, game the CBT and then take the money from the contract. It’s a total joke.
Ann Porkins
I believe I saw that he made about $40M in personal endorsements last year. With the Dodgers, it’ll only be higher. Regardless of the exact numbers, he makes a ton of money outside of his salary and is clearly trying to get the Dodgers to spend big on other players over the next ten years. Then, when his contract is up and he’s already earned nine figures in personal endorsements, he takes home $680M
99socalfrc
Exactly
Pads Fans
Sorry Fabian, you are wrong. The CBA is clear. It doesn’t reduce the CBT payroll hit even $1. Not one cent.
The CBT hit is $70 million each year for the next 10 years. .
Van Lingle Mungo
No, it isn’t. It’s based on money paid. He will be paid $2 million so that’s what the hit is.
bxbombers857
Wrong
A Seal
No, it isn’t. It’s based on AAV of the contract, at present value. The contract is $700 million over 10 years, and with the deferrals, the present value is $460 million. Over 10 years, that’s a 46 million per year hit. By the time he’s actually receiving the money, there won’t be a tax hit.
JoeBrady
Pads Fans
The CBT hit is $70 million each year for the next 10 years. .
===========================
This is what I like about Padre fans, Even when they are proven wrong, in writing, they still insist they are right.
justbaseballfan
Tax hit is based on AAV of present value so it does in fact reduce the hit.
Echopark
Wrong. It’s value of contract not actual dollars.
Buckner
Sorry, no @echopark.
UncommonSense
Just because you say it 100 times doesn’t make it true
bag o ballz
yes but it does in the sense that it negates the cbt tax as they are essentially paying a rookie salary for the guy and any extra money has zero impact on the budget – in fact it is a negative value because the money at the end of the contract is not only worth less but chances are the cbt at that point will be higher. the only way to solve this is a salary cap because it would actually penalize the cbt hit that is deferred at the end of the contract.
UncommonSense
It doesn’t negate anything they are still gonna be paying 46 million a year towards the tax for the next 10 years.
Bucket Number Six
Once you die on that hill, Pads, I will get to eat your corpse. Yum yum eat em up.
JoeBrady
LOL! In Pads world, Soto is still on the Padres.
bxbombers857
Wrong
Jaysfansince92
Go read the article again @Pads Fan. The tax hit is stated as 46 million per year.
weaselpuppy
So essentially a Michael Jordan I get Paid by Nike More Anyways type contract.
I imagine that the rest of the Owners will cry foul and get some kind of guardrails around how much of a contract can be deferred going forward.
HalosHeavenJJ
I’m looking forward to Juan Soto getting $600 million for 10 years spread over 30 years with a luxury tax hit of $12 million per year.
If the CBT is this easy to circumvent it is a joke.
Anthony maresca
Rest assured that’s exactly how Boras is going to play his hand during negotiations but I promise you Yankees wont be falling for that. This structure only drives salaries to insane levels that MLBPA love but im confident MLB will decide this is illegal and instead insert a maximum amount of money and years of payments can be deferred.
JoeBrady
I’m looking forward to Juan Soto getting $600 million for 10 years spread over 30 years with a luxury tax hit of $12 million per year.
=================================
That’s not how this works (and also why we had a mortgage crisis in 2008).
The CBT will be based on the present value of 30 years of $20M payments discounted at 4.43% (presently).
DeusSexMachina
Hell yeah, cry more. Bend the knee, kiss my “Mickey Mouse” ring you jealous chumps.
jhend12
how does the math work to come up with $46MM per year?
Seamaholic
It’s total money divided by years paid (AAV) not by years played, which is what it should be.
Jon54321
Not how it works.
A Seal
That’s wrong. It’s AAV but the value of the contract is the present value after accounting for deferrals, not the total value of the contract. In today’s money, he’s getting $460 million, and is technically under contract for 10 years. Therefore, the hit is $46 million/year,
Doral Silverthorn
I was dead wrong in thinking it was the total paid that SEASON counting towards the number.
99socalfrc
This roughly means that after the “value of the money” in 20 years is factored in the contract is worth $460mm and not $700mm.
Which is a total joke because they are paying him $700mm and only putting $460mm into the CBT books.
UncommonSense
A dollar today is not worth $1 in 10 years and not worth $1 in 20 years. It’s worth much less because of inflation. So $700 million paid out like this is still $700 million but in future value of that $700 million. Like 10 years ago you could buy 700 million cheeseburgers at McDonald’s for that money and today you can only buy 250 million cheeseburgers.
99socalfrc
The application of the present value of money here is pretty misplaced. They are still paying him $700m, and not all of it is going against their CBT. The CBT goes up every year to account for inflation, that is the appropriate way to do it.
IE you paying a guy $10m a year now might take up 10% of a $100m CBT threshold but it will only be 5% of the CBT once the threshold goes to $200m
The fact that said player’s money doesn’t spend the same in 10 or 20 years is pretty stupid to build in.
Anthony maresca
No guarantees inflation increases down the road at the pace it has the pst few years so its assuming and not facts. They should only focus on facts what’s happening today now!
UncommonSense
It’s economics 101 you have to take inflation into account in everything not just this contract
jhend12
that’s the most Americanized way you could’ve explained it lol
kingcong95
68M deferred 10 years at a 4.43% interest rate = 68*(0.9557)^10 = 44M, plus 2M base salary.
TradeAcuna
This is stupid
1979andcounting
Playing games with the CBT hit. Hoping Shohei can pay his mortgage between now and 2034 on only $2M a year.
skyyalpha
It’s funny that you think his MLB contract is his only income
HalosHeavenJJ
He will have to find a way to survive on the $40 million per year he makes in endorsements.
Chicken In Philly?
That’s a little more than expected.
HatlessPete
For real. I was guessing like maybe 50% deferred.
frugalfarhan
Who cares about the future just live for today! The world will probably end in a few years making the dodgers look like frickin geniuses
Anthony maresca
Or worst the owners decide to sell and past these cost onto the new owners!!! Imagine that its all a business with brilliant mind’s circumventing the system today
Jaysfansince92
They could but those debts would be baked into the sale price.
Neon Cop
So, uh, this is really corrupt…
just_thinkin
Shohei done broke baseball
reno24
I hope he gets boo’d everywhere he plays this year
terry g
He won’t.
Ranger Danger19
But why? I’m not mad at the guy for taking what was offered to him. I would’ve done the same thing in his position. The only thing I have issue with is the deferred money and that’s up to the owners and players union to work out in the future.
Daniel Youngblood
He’s the LeBron James of baseball at this point. Couldn’t win in Anaheim so he joined a super team in search of a ring to solidify his legacy — and did so in a way that kind of broke his sport.
I don’t hate LeBron or Shohei, but I understand why others would sports hate them. Both get Batman treatment while acting as often as not like Robin.
I have a lot more respect for a Corey Seager or Bryce Harper, who say, “I’m going to go make this club a contender” than those who say “I’ve got to go join a contender.” Shohei is the new A-Rod. He’s an elite talent obviously, but he’s telling us through his actions he doesn’t believe he can elevate a team.
bmcferren
isnt there a commisioner to step in when a sleezy move like this is attempted?
dumper
This is absolute garbage. Mlb needs to step in. This sets a precedent for teams now. These big spenders are going to get every free agent and still be well under the competitive balance tax. Ohtani’s play saved baseball, but his contract now ruins it.
vivalosdoyers
Good luck getting other players accepting these types of contracts without endorsement deals.
dumper
Nobody is going to defer 68 million without endorsements, but if its a 40 million dollar per year aav, maybe they’d defer 20 ♂️
A Seal
Deferring money does not add to the number of years on the contract for luxury tax purposes, so there’s a limit of how much you can do without seriously impacting the value of the contract so no one signs.
O'sSayCanYouSee
Lmao!! Rich folk always find ways around “rules”.
Kinda maks you wonder why have the rules. Too many Econ folks in baseball now.
animedad
Pure and simple manipulation of the luxury tax. If MLB was threatening to void 14 year contracts for manipulating the AAV then voiding this contract is a must. Pay the man whatever you want but face the consequences as they apply to the luxury tax.
Simm
Exactly, this is worse then the judge 14 year deal with that padres they said they would void.
If he allows this there will be tremendous backlash.
JMP 2
Kick the can, kick the can, kick the can…WOW!
shortstop
This feels like going into credit card debt to sign a player
Ranger Danger19
Not really because there’s no interest involved. Does A-Rods deal from 2001 look bad today? By the time the Dodgers are done paying Ohtani it won’t be Any different.
shortstop
I would argue the interest is baked into the contract. Without the deferrals, they probably could have gotten him for less than $700M.
hoof hearted
any team/general manager could have done that deal. even Kansas City. of course when it comes time to pay out the big money they can sell the team and not be obligated to pay it
biffpocoroba
Other teams can only do that when the player offers it to them. In this case, Ohtani didn’t give the other bidders the same opportunity.
gnomon
Yeah, but that’s an overly simplistic way to look at it. Dodgers checked off everything on his list–geography/comfort, winning franchise, marketing, etc. so of course, other teams weren’t on his short list of teams, that’s his prerogative.
refereemn77
His agent has said all other teams had the same potential for the contract.
SFBay314
This is insane. Can’t wait until teams start mortgaging for 2091. This is a clear CBT skrit
jdgoat
This is horrible for the game. What’s the point of having a luxury tax if it can be so easily manipulated?
The Big Yo
I’m sorry guys but this is disgusting! I’m a lover of sport and fairly knowledgeable about most pro sports on this planet but this is the most disgusting contract I’ve ever seen and hopefully ever will. Ohtani such a nice guy . Give me 3/4 of your bread to feed people. How big does your yaught have to be Mr, Nice?
Halo11Fan
Baseball has to stop this.
Good for the Dodgers for exploiting the rules, that’s just smart, but this is absurd.
gnomon
People have to stop about the “gaming” of the rules nonsense. It’s something that’s been done by teams for a long time now. The reason why this is so unusual is that Ohtani agreed to it. No player of his stature would have agreed to deferring 97% of their contract liked that. That’s probably a deal breaker for 99.9 percent of the league. It just so happens that you have a player who understands that he makes enough $$ outside of baseball AND that a $70M CBT hit would cripple most teams ability to build around him. It’s just a perfect storm of circumstances, nothing more nothing less.
DugoutJester
Your move Manfred, you pucking futs.
ElectricJ
The Jays or another contending suitor should file a grievance. Clearly an attempt to game the system and avoid CBT penalties by the Dodgers.
terry g
What makes you think the Jays weren’t offering much the same?
DarrenDreifortsContract
People only have a problem with the contract because it’s not their team signing it.
The Dodgers are always playing chess.
Halo11Fan
Every team wishes their team would have done, but every clear thinking person also knows this is making a mockery of the rules.
LostRealist
Bingo.
jdgoat
Nope. I cheer for one of the richer teams in baseball and still wish there was a salary cap (along with a salary floor) to help keep the league competitively balanced. This contract is detrimental to a competitive league.
HalosHeavenJJ
I’m with JDGoat.
Root for a big market team. Want a league where every fan feels like they have somewhat of a chance.
frugalfarhan
Maybe they should focus on playing baseball instead of chess and they could probably win more than one fake WS over the last 30 years!
Jaysfansince92
I guess they want an asterisk beside all their world series wins . J/K.
CarlEverettsPetDinosaur
except during the playoffs.
Whyme
I agree plenty of teams crying poor while not even using the revenue money given to them by mlb. This guy is a once in a lifetime talent and should be paid as such
Simm
Wasn’t even the dodgers idea it was Ohtani’s.
Ronk325
What a joke. A deferral this significant shouldn’t be allowed
receo
You’re all just a bunch of phuqing whiners!,,
Echopark
It means the present day value of the contract is actually 460 million not 700 million. All the 700 million headlines should read effectively 460 million. Is it gaming the system? Not as much as saying it’s a 700 million present day deal is misrepresenting the contract.
Simm
Yes it is, if he was paid 46m a year it would cost the dodgers a ton more money during his 10 years with them. Literally 44m more a year. So now they have a massive amount of more flexibility to add more players.
While Ohtani may only see the equivalent of 460m the dodgers are seeing huge now benefits. This is the biggest crock of working your way around the tax system anyone has ever tried.
Halo11Fan
You are equating paper inflation to actual inflation.
Since people don’t have crystal balls, no one knows how much the Dodgers will end up paying Ohtani with inflation factored in.
JoeBrady
no one knows how much the Dodgers will end up paying Ohtani with inflation factored in.
============================
Unless I missed something in the article, how do you know that there is an inflation factor built in?
LostRealist
Yeah, they’re still on the hook for a $700 million commitment, which is what a lot of these people are completely missing. I agree with you for sure, it should say 10 years, $460 million, with $240 million deferred for the 10 years period immediately after the end of the contract. Either way, if you’re not using loopholes, you’re not doing your due diligence and not reading the rules or understanding the rules well enough.
Baseball Purist
Sorry, but this should not be allowed. Wow. What a scam.
fre5hwind
Othani is pulling off a heist
jorge78
Oh no! How will he be able to afford fancy dog food?
The horror!
soxprospectsroverrated
Wahhh billionaires who own small market teams can’t pocket all of the tax money on this contract wahhh.
I hope the Yankees do the same with Soto’s $600
Mill contract
jdgoat
It’s less to do with that and more to do with the fact they can just buy every high priced free agent and still somehow be under the tax.
Whyme
So what it’s allowed.
Baseball Purist
Not for long. They will have to close this loophole after he ruined the game.
LostRealist
I hope all teams start doing this with stars they want to sign! It’s brilliant.
Jaysfansince92
Right because players will just be lining up to wait 10 years for over 95% of their money.
Anthony maresca
Yankees are too intelligent to pay someone $68 million a yr for 10 yrs AFTER the player retires. In fact they are too intelligent to pay any baseball player $700 million. Only a desperate fool does that as its only a game!
JRamHOF
Dodgers saving money for Bauer
MootScorgoon
Best comment in here so far.
disadvantage
Well they are so hated for his move now, maybe they’ll think re-signing Bauer suddenly won’t look so bad.
biffpocoroba
The Dodgers and Ohtani just made a mockery of the CBT. If the Commissioner is fine with that, then Katie, bar the door.
If the Commissioner’s Office approves this, then MLB is confirming that there are rules for LA and NYC (because Steinbrenner and Cohen will be right behind them), and rules for everyone else. And then the whole thing unravels.
While we’re at it, let’s stop with the happy talk about Ohtani’s altruism here in wanting the Dodgers to have the money to get more stars, because he offered this only to the Dodgers and not to any other bidder, while dragging the Jays along. for maximum $$.
refereemn77
Was offered to all bidders. And the CBA allows for an unlimited amount of money deferred.
jorge78
This contract continues to shock. I wonder what’s next…..
UncommonSense
Next will come out that he’s paying the Dodgers 70 million a year to play for them
TrumboRedux
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
kenny84
Kenny84
This shouldn’t be allowed. Some deferrals is bad enough but this is dancing around the rules something smaller markets couldn’t afford to do or wouldn’t be allowed to do. This is bad for the game.
Catuli Carl
Excuse me?
big_balls_mahoney
This contract just gets even more ridiculous. I’m surprised shohei wanted this.
Echopark
Only he could do this. He gets 40 mil a year in endorsements anyway. This feels like agent ego to say 700 million more than anything else.
UncommonSense
Maybe he loves baseball more than money I know I do
920kodiak
As am I. I suspect he just really wanted to play for the Dodgers.
sippycups
Rangers in 6.
99socalfrc
The rule needs to put the luxury tax hit on years the money is EARNED. If a player wants to turn his contract into an annuity then fine, let him get paid for 100 years, but the years in which he is actually playing should be used for the CBT.
Echopark
Probably should be changed. But this falls under don’t hate the player, hate the game.
halos2017
Ridiculous
Corradoj30
For all you complaining about this being a luxury tax dodge, it’s not. MLB actually has discounts built in for deferrals because of the way inflation reduces the value of the contract. So blame MLB if you don’t like it because if they wanted to, they could’ve simply made it the rule that no matter how you structure the payout, there is no adjustment to how the AAV is determined.
Simm
It’s not a tax dodge my ass.
Corradoj30
There’s a built-in rule that allows the very thing they’re doing, so it’s not dodging anything. Referring to your ass is not an argument. Bring a bit more to the table next time.
99socalfrc
I highly doubt deferring 68 out of 70 million a year is the spirit in which the rule was written.
To be honest it was probably originally written that way so that more players would use a relatively short term contract as a way to get paid their whole life instead o f ending up broke when they’re done playing.
rct
Whether or not it’s a legal move due to a built-in rule is irrelevant. It is 100% a tax dodge. Source: instead of $70 million per year towards the CBT, it’s only $46 million. They’re literally dodging $24 million towards tax penalties.
Ratherbesailing
They are dodging taxes. Lots of taxes.
He will be dodging taxes after he retires, lots of taxes.
The antitrust that baseball has will now be taken away
Corradoj30
It’s not dodging when there are rules in place that specifically allow for it. It’s MLB that actually determines the amount of discount a team receives when they defer a player’s salary.
Same if the IRS accused you of tax dodging and then you proved that everything you did was within the rules, they’d have no choice but to kick rocks. Tax dodging is when you BREAK the rules to avoid paying taxes. It is NOT using the rules to your advantage.
Salzilla
Retirement fund settled.
Mystery13
If this isn’t luxury tax circumvention, I just don’t understand the business anymore
Dodger Dog
Circumvention implies it’s not allowed by the rules, and their is very clearly allowed by the CBA.
Jaysfansince92
Where did it say in the CBA that what the Padres were going to do last offseason was not allowed? I hadn’t heard there was anything that strictly forbade it and that was not going to stop MLB from voiding the contract. Unless there is something that expressly forbade it then this contract should be fair game too.
920kodiak
I never really did.
YourDreamGM
Yes plus much more
Let’s Go O’s
Scam, scam
Everywhere a scam
Blockin’ out the scenery
Breakin’ my mind
Do this, don’t do that
Can’t you read the scam?
nando390
Blue jays stay losing
Dodgerfan34
I’m just interested in reading the comments about how this is not fair. Grabbing my popcorn and watching fans of other teams have could have done the same thing complain about this.
biffpocoroba
Other teams can’t do the same thing if he only offered it to the Dodgers and not the other bidders. Good for the Dodgers for taking advantage of it, and I’m happy for the fanbase, but let’s not pretend other teams could have done the same when in fact he only offered this to LAD.
YourDreamGM
If he wants to take less $ to play for LA what can you do?
Anthony maresca
It does not matter if other teams were offered the same structure as Ohtani still decides the team he wants to play for. This is the problem with this structure moving forward as every team likely now use this method that only drives the players salary through thecroof yet its up to the player to decide which team they wish to play for cause all the offers will be the same. This is the reason mlb will step in as they found a loophole that will no longer work
Enrico Pallazzo
He offered it to all the teams he negotiated with. Sorry. Your assumed narrative that the Dodgers get special treatment is false
Digdugler
No other team could, he only wanted to play for Dodgers hence why he accepted this deal.
casorgreener
Contract is fine. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. Any other team can do it too. In 10 years that extra 68M on their books per year will make them less competitive.
UncommonSense
I doubt it because the tax implications will be done after 10 years, and they will probably have that money set aside already in some sort of annuity
Digdugler
He would not accept the deal from anyone else. So that is false.
casorgreener
Not the Dodgers fault…
biffpocoroba
Any other team cannot do it if the player doesn’t offer it to them, like he did here for the Dodgers.
UncommonSense
Yep, That can be said for any free agent contract.
YourDreamGM
They have 10 years to invest that $.
jorge78
I wonder if the Dodgers will have cash flow problems in the 2030’s…..
UncommonSense
I believe the CBA states they have to set up an annuity ahead of time to pay him so the money will already be there. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Eg
“Now, say my name.”
“You’re Bobby Bonilla.”
“You’re g**damn right.”
MootScorgoon
The trailblazer a head of his time.
Gumby82
You loser, Zaidi! You could have offer 1 billion and deferred 998 million! You have the money! Get your owner on board or quit. You own your stadium and you take in the merchandise with a low payroll. JFC! Get your act together now!!!!
buya
G82
Time to move on.Don’t believe what Farhan say,he all talk and no action.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
This contract is a Schiste Show
Digdugler
I dont understand. How many years is the contract? How many years is the CBT hit of $46M?
bighiggy
Me too. So is it 46 mil cap hit times 19 years?
Dodger Dog
10
bighiggy
I just don’t get how they can say it’s a 10 yr 700 mil contract but only 46 cap hit for 10 yrs. I realize the inflation implications and deferrals but it just boggles my mind that they are just skirting 240 mil over 10 years in cap tax hits. I’m just astounded that 240 mil just doesn’t count? Honestly it should either be 70 a year or 46 over 15 or whatever comes out to 700. This is going to lead to alot of cap circumventing in the future if teams are allowed to defer such large amounts that will never go towards their luxury tax amount. Like 5 to 10 mil I could understand, but 240 mil doesn’t count? That’s Yamamoto over 10 years basically for free? Wtf
bxbombers857
46 mil cbt hit for 10 yrs
GhostofRandySavage
Salary cap is long overdue.
920kodiak
It is, but the players would strike the next day. Most powerful union in the country.
GhostofRandySavage
Fine by me, good riddance
maxmilna
Welcome to the Dodgers Yamamoto!!!!!!
UncommonSense
Maybe the Dodgers can pay Yamamoto five dollars a year for 10 years and then pay $299,999,995 for the next 30 after
bighiggy
With all 299mil not counted towards the cap, or like half not counted lol
Anthony maresca
Thats coming my friend just wait until Yamamoto decides his team.
Brew88
$40K a year, $400M defferred
Habitual Truth Teller
LOL Padres cant give Judge 4 extra years (14 instead of 10) to reduce aav for cbt purposes but dodgers can pay ohtani 2 mill a year for 10 years and then push the aav/cbt stuff down the road. Absolute joke by the mlb if this deal is allowed. It’s obviously trying to skirt around cbt penalties and such. Not even trying to hide it.
UncommonSense
Yes, and that begs the question as to why the Padres didn’t sign judge for 10 years and defer the rest of the money? And no one‘s trying to hide anything it’s all part of the collective bargaining agreement.
Habitual Truth Teller
We don’t know much about seidler and his illness but I’d venture to say the length of contract and any money after was based off his time knowing he had x amount of years. He probably didn’t want to defer too much into the future after his death.
YourDreamGM
Padres could have deferred though.
Enrico Pallazzo
Completely different situation
LostRealist
All of you clowns (there are quite a few on this site) bitching about this: they’re still on the hook for $46 million per year for him, making it the biggest hit in the league, and, guess what?! *GASP*, THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY HIM $700 million! If the team and player agree, and the CBA allows for it, not much we can do but sit back and watch.
Digdugler
Well the issue is, that Ohtani would not accept this deal from anyone other than the Dodgers. He is leaving a lot of money on the table by getting interest free deferral. 20 years of inflation!
Dodger Dog
The CBA also allows the player to sign with whatever team he wants. Every player and team have been allowed to do this.
Habitual Truth Teller
1. Each year passes the cbt threshold grows.
2022: $230 million.
2023: $233 million.
2024: $237 million.
2025: $241 million.
2026: $244 million.
So by the time Ohtani’s bill comes due that 46 mill isn’t counted against 237 mill in 2024 Its counted against 250-260 mill or whatever. in 2034
Pushing the can down the road allows the dodgers to wait for the cbt threshold to grow thus creating more room financially.
2. Its a clear attempt to circumvent the cbt penalties and shouldnt be allowed.
UncommonSense
And yet not only MLB, but the players association agreed to this in the collective bargaining agreement. It’s not a loophole it’s part of the agreement and right out there in the open. Anyone can do this
Habitual Truth Teller
When it was agreed upon I doubt the union and mlb thought any player let alone a generational talent would push so much into the future. They figured maybe couple million here couple million there. Not 68 million per year of a 70 million dollar contract.’
It definitely goes against the spirit of the agreement and is an egregious attempt to circumvent not only 2024 cbt tax penalties but future ones as well. 70 mill against 233 mill in 2024 is a lot different than 46 mill against 260 mill in 2034.
Halo11Fan
They are on the hook for two million per year for the next ten years.
Why do you bring up 46 million per year as if that has any real meaning. Other than accounting purposes, it doesn’t.
Until inflations actually happens, which will start in ten years, no one knows how much this is costing the Dodgers.
But if the Dodgers put this 700 million in a simple investment, it would easily double in ten years. They are virtually paying Ohtani nothing.
It’s legal, but it’s also a travesty.
Still in talks
How come @rottenboyfriend was so sure it would count as $70M vs the LT?
desertdawg
Well, that is one way of beating paying California state income tax, only having to pay on 2mill a year instead of the full 70 mil a year. Technically won’t have to pay tax on the other 68mil until 2034 and then if he leaves California moves to Japan, California does not get any of the taxes on the 68mil.
Mustard Tiger
That is brilliant!
Nevrfolow
hearing california wont get the taxes off most of this is the only thing i like about it.
UncommonSense
Show us on the doll where California hurt you
Echopark
Interesting tax question actually. Whether this is true. Willing to bet California makes a claim and this gets decided in the courts. But he’s no worse off if he loses since he would have had to pay those taxes anyway.
biffpocoroba
Yes, which is why the deal may not go down as planned. Conning CA out of that tax money isn’t a slam dunk, no matter how good your tax people are.
YourDreamGM
If that’s true why take the 2m. Just take 0 or league minimum.
Seamaholic
Dodgers will actually pay out money into a fund every year, so that the $680m in deferrals is guaranteed to be there in 2033. A lot like a term life insurance plan.
TrumboRedux
Will this open a “pandora’s box” of contract deferrals now is the bigger question.
GhostofRandySavage
Seems like it
TrumboRedux
Loved you in Spiderman <3
UncommonSense
Why would this be the catalyst and not the actual collective bargaining agreement that allows this?
TrumboRedux
What was it in the collective bargaining agreement that made the commish veto the Judge to SD deal?
GhostofRandySavage
Nobody haaaad to do these deferrals to keep up with anyone else in the league. I think now they might have to just to compete on any decent free agent.
Busterking
It will for sure if they allow it.
YourDreamGM
It’s nothing new.
TrumboRedux
DreamGM, it is a smidge unprecedented you gotta admit…
YourDreamGM
The amount and amount deferred sure. Just because there has never been a more valuable player and one willing to defer so much $. Nationals might have been willing to give Soto 700 if he waa willing to defer it all until 2050.
TrumboRedux
Agreed. Do you think any other teams were trying to do the referral thing? Or were the Dodgers just high level geniuses with this??
TrumboRedux
Sheesh..***deferral**** My apologies for the typho.
YourDreamGM
I would think every team would rather put off paying someone. Lowers the yearly number. Dollar will be weaker. CBT will be higher or no longer exist. Who knows what will happen 10 20 years from now. Been lots of great things to invest it so far.
Catuli Carl
This same thing happened at Chelsea in the Premier League which Todd Boehly also owns. They had to change the rules because of him.
preauto
Wow! in memoriam of course don’t ban me
UncommonSense
Wowzers! 2 million a year??? The rich get poorer. Haha. I’m just kidding, but if Ohtani needs to borrow a few bucks, he can always come to me.
TrumboRedux
You mean “lend” a few bucks right?
BigGarg
Shohei is a smart dude. Live off endorsement money then retire and live off dodgers money. I’m jealous the cubs didn’t do this.
Mustard Tiger
Excellent work by Andrew Friedman. Yamamoto should be signed by next week!
Shadow_Banned
Haha nice
Cleon Jones
This deal is DOA. Time for the funeral coach to make a stop in LaLaLand and carry away the remains.
GhostofRandySavage
So now the dodgers can sign bellinger, Yamamoto, and whoever else…and just also defer their contracts?
UncommonSense
And all the rest of the teams as well it’s not something the Dodgers can exclusively do
GhostofRandySavage
Good point, all the teams that seem to print money are gonna have fun with this.
toptimrubies
Welcome to the largest collection of adult men saying “that’s not fair” on the internet.
UncommonSense
So many petty jealous people on this forum. It’s exhausting. Can’t we be happy for other teams?
Buckner
@UncommonSense – Agreed. And I’ll add: when a system “bakes in” more and more rules and guardrails, people will get more and more creative to work around it. True for Little league (too many rules), HS sports and the MLB.
terry g
I love reading the responses to this post. lol
Bobbyv8
Lol guess you are not Cubs/Jays/Giants fan
carlos15
This is awesome
VegasSDfan
Let me guess he gets a huge signing bonus also.
2 million a year 68 million deferred, come on
riffraff
I don’t like it but it falls within the framework of whats allowed so I tip my hat to the Dodgers for playing the system to their advantage. I would like to see this loophole fixed in some way. Doesn’t seem fair to charge them $70MM cap hit when that is not what the present day value is but it does seem unfair to charge them $46MM for 10 years when they are still technically paying him $700MM. How about split the difference? They are paying him over 20 years so make it a $35MM hit for 20 years…smaller hit but have to have dead cap hit for a decade when he is not playing.
Nevrfolow
will the 46m cap hit be for 20 years? shoot, by the end of it, the cap limit may be 500 million for teams.
UncommonSense
No it’s only for 10 years don’t you see how a dollar today is not worth a dollar in 10 years so if you’re paying deferred money it’s devalued
bxbombers857
The Cbt hit will only be for the 10yrs he plays
Nevrfolow
Thank you. That’s what I thought but was like well maybe
clausen366@gmail.com 2
I’m not sure that should be allowed or not. part of me thinks good job and part of me thinks it’s ridiculous. I see a lot more contracts like this happening since players yearly salaries have exploded. I wish I could retire and get $46 million to sit on a coach after my career is long over.
Kelland
Which coach would you like to sit on?
RobM
The Max Scherzer deal deferred approximately half the contract, so MLB has established that this type of deal is acceptable, but will this be a bridge too far? I also believe that the Dodgers within a few years will have to start funding the bulk of this contract in a separate account to ensure the money is there.
Why would Ohtani do this? He can avoid the California/LA taxes by moving out of the state once he starts collecting the overwhelming majority of the deal, so the MLBPA will almost assuredly support this deal. He’s already making over $40MM a year in endorsements, and projections now suggest he may make over $100MM a year once with the Dodgers. He won’t hungry or go lacking a penthouse or three! Curious though how MLB will view this deal.
hiflew
Half is not 96% or whatever.
maxmilna
Why would he do this!? He wants to win dummy.
hiflew
So he picked the team that hasn’t won since 1988? And no 2020 does not count,
RobM
Perhaps, hiflew, we can put you in a quiet room with soft lighting, pleasant mood music, and a comfortable pillow to sit on and comfort your case of butt hurt.
Siscokid
Why would he do this? His dog doesn’t ask for a lot.
LordD99
He’s thinking of adding some cats. They get expensive.
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
He also can play US inflation off against Japanese inflation. Saving state income tax and then living in Japan,
But this also means that the contract when written traditionally is “only” worth about $470M based on current actuarial assessments of the future economy.
I won’t be surprised if some of that deferred money is used to buy a minority ownership stake once he is officially retired.
DarkSide830
Scherzer also cost nearly the full 30 against the Nats luxury tax, aka it wasn’t circumvention. This is circumvention, plain and simple.
Echopark
Anyone know the commissioner’s power to stop this contract? Legally?
YourDreamGM
The commissioner works for NY LA oh and the other teams. Seems completely legal and players and owners agreed to these types of contracts.
Buckner
@Echopark Stop the contract.
Stop. The. Contract?
You are kidding, right?
Is that because your GM didn’t think of it first?
GSWfanklay
As a hurt and loyal Giants fan I say BOOOOO
GreenMonsta
Its not really a $700M contract its a $460m contract (in actual value). Just selfless promoting to claim the biggest contract ARod did the same thing 15-20 years ago when he signed the Yankee extension.
Digdugler
This. The MLB is a joke and all of their pocket journalists promoting “world records”.
RobM
No. He’s getting $700MM.
GreenMonsta
“No he’s getting $700M”
Not in the world of MLB accounting practices.
A Dollar owed to you in 20 years, with no interest is not worth a dollar your holding in your hand.
RobM
When Aaron Judge signed his 9/360 for a $40MM AAV, it was split evenly across the years. He signed a $360MM contract and he’s going to get $360MM. No one has tried saying that it’s really not $360MM because the value of the dollar decreases each year of the deal, which means in 2024 he’s making less money than in 2023, or in 2031 he’s making way less than 2023. Nope. He’s still being paid $360MM and Ohtani will be paid $700MM. Hey, maybe the Yankees should try to have the decreasing value of the dollar calculated to lower the total value of the deal and their AAV! I suspect MLB will not go along.
bxbombers857
The judge contract doesn’t have deffered money. Had jusge wanted some deffered money his cbt hit would have been less just like ohtani.
RobM
That’s correct, but [some] people here seem to be stuck up on the decreasing value of the dollar to try and argue that Ohtani didn’t sign a deal guaranteeing him $700MM. He did. He’s getting it.
GreenMonsta
RobM;
Im pretty sure every contract is divided out over the life of the contract, before any of the money is considered deferred. What you described with Judge, they did with Ohtani and every other player.
GreenMonsta
“try and argue that Ohtani didn’t sign a deal guaranteeing him $700MM. He did. He’s getting it.”
Who’s saying that? He will receive every dollar of that $700M contact.
What people really saying is that value of Ohtani’s $700M contract is only worth $460M in todays money (if split up equally over 10 years). Because of the time value of money.
99socalfrc
The real issue (the one the players union should be worried about) is that not all players can secure the type of endorsement money Ohtani can, thus a deal like this isn’t an “anyone can do it” type thing. The only way this works is if the player doesn’t need or want to get paid for 10 years.
martras
I hope Manfred shoots down the contract, but the Yankees and Dodgers typically get whatever concessions they want from MLB.
This is yet another example of the Dodgers violating the intent of cash flow rules; this time in the form of the CBT. It’s a horrible contract for baseball because these types of contracts can upset the competitive balance of the league, and it can lead to teams becoming non-viable for many years. Forget the short rebuilds. If a mid-market or small market team is forced into the corner of having to compete on these types of situations, it could ruin them for a decade.
RobM
Except Washington signed Max Scherzer to a $210MM, seven-year contract, with half of the contract deferred. This has already been done.
martras
There is some precedent, but 50% deferrals for Max Scherzer is not the same as 97% deferrals…
There will always be teams who push the boundaries or limits of rules, rolling through stop signs, etc, and the Nationals are reaping the rewards of their deferral heavy signings for MLB to witness how even a big market team can take a beating. The Dodgers didn’t even slow down for the stop sign.
Jaysfansince92
There is a big difference between deferring 105 million and deferring 680 million. This has not been done before.
Bobbyv8
All this points to, another team offered him more (possibly Jays) but wanted to go to dodgers so he had to make it look like dodgers offered more so he comes up with deferral plan and dodgers offer 700M with 68m/yr deferred!
Shame on MLB to go to bed with dodgers and put a stamp on it blindly.
Digdugler
This just makes it clear Ohtani was never going anywhere else and was just wasting everyone’s time.
Bobbyv8
My thoughts also and why it delayed so much cuz he wanted to play for dodgers but didn’t want to reveal his “poker” face and to see what money is out there he is missing out and spooked dodgers to match that , then once he got the max $ he asked to defer the payment to avoid
Taxes
dodgers fan 00
Hahaha Let’s go!!!! Thanks Ohtani!!
bernbabybern
I wonder if he moves back to Japan after 10 years if the US or CA get any taxes from that $680M.
holycow16
That boy has got a great CPA covering his cash!! Nice contract!!
Now Go Cubs Go!!!
carlos15
It’s totally fair, they can put $30m per year in an investment vehicle and by the time they pay it out it’ll be worth the $68m they owe. This a brilliant move, plus the tax threshold will be way higher in the future.
reneaguerra
All these whiners on this thread…some people are just smarter than others & he & his agent asked for that.
10centBeerNight
And other owners were afraid of Steve Cohen
Echopark
It also explains why it was a ten year deal not a fourteen year deal. If they extended the years past reasonable playing years, I think it would/could be stopped.
Tebor
He knew he wanted to be a dodger all along. Maybe that was the point to be so anonymous. Shouldn’t have wasted other teams time. Not surprised if this was constructed before he was a free agent.
CaseyAbell
Artful dodging. I’m a little surprised Ohtani agreed to this. He must figure that the endorsement money will roll in big forever, so he doesn’t need the salary now.
But let’s say his performance declines – hardly impossible with the balky elbow – and the endorsements start to dry up. It might be a long wait until 2034 until the salary starts to get paid.
The other clubs will yelp about the Dodgers, er, dodging. But if Ohtani is okay with this ridiculous deferral, I don’t know that baseball can do anything about it. As far as I know, the CBA doesn’t limit deferrals. It’s just that this deferral looks insane and would never happen for any other player.
The endorsement money just isn’t there for any other player.
vivalosdoyers
Nailed it. Fans are crying foul while Ohtani accepted this kind of contract only hurting himself.
YourDreamGM
I think he will manage.
CaseyAbell
Ohtani won’t be on food stamps. But he’s taking a big hit in real income. And endorsement money comes and goes.
I grew up as a Reds fan in Cincinnati, so this CBT dodge just gives me another reason to hate the Dodgers. Would be great if Ohtani put up a .700 OPS and the team missed the playoffs. Sadly, I doubt that will happen.
YourDreamGM
If he can’t live off of the hundreds of millions of endorsements he will need this deferred $. Don’t hire Mike Tysons account managers.
Whyme
As a Jay’s fan I don’t care. He signed with LAD time to move on. Atkins is a failure. There were 5k plus watching A plane that’s how popular Ohtani is.
cwizzy6
You should care as a baseball fan that the Dodgers are cheating the CBA.
Whyme
Not if mlb allows it and the union isn’t going to stop the contract
THEY LIVE!!!
Dodger fan here and glad they got Ohtani but this contract is whack. A real commissioner would have to quash this as not in the interests of the rest of the league and the sport itself.
Yanks2
Are you concerned he may deteriorate too soon after getting surgery already on his arm?
99socalfrc
Imagine that this is the same MLB that told the Padres they couldn’t borrow money to spend in the deep end of the pool….
kgcubs
Aloha folks, I understand there is a “loophole” in the current CBA agreement but this is abuse or at the very least taking big advantage by a big market team no less. I didn’t like how the whole chosing played out, felt Shohei and his “camp” used the other teams to get a larger order from LA. Then felt, fine they want to pay $70mil a year for ten years, okay. They will have to pay the luxury tax, possibly lose draft picks but that’s their responsibility for making that kind of offer. Now we hear about this? Boy was Ohtani, his people and the Dodgers all working together to “game” the system? Just seems like more insult to injuries and no, I’m not whining because my team didn’t sign him, I’m sad for the sport. Maybe Manfred will have the courage to tell Ohtani and the Dodgers no. We’ll see what happens. Mahalo
920kodiak
Honestly, this is a unique situation. No other baseball player, other than Reggie back in the 70s, has the endorsement marketability that Ohtani does. Most players aren’t interested in these massive, or any deferrals, or 2million a year salary. Ohtani was, so it is.
cgallant
I have a structured settlement but I need cash now.
RobM
I don’t know how many people will pick up on this, but it is funny.
Jon54321
Smart on Ohtani’s part too. He saves over $8 million a year in California taxes, then can move before he gets paid the bulk of the money.
cwizzy6
Thats not how taxes work. It doesnt matter where you live. In fact, athlete taxes get taken out for every away game they play too. Play a three game series in Arizona? Those games he pays Arizona taxes for those games. Another in Florida? No income tax those games.
RobM
Except he almost assuredly won’t be in California when he begins to collect the deferred $680MM.
Jon54321
Correct, on the $2 million he gets paid each year. Then he retires, moves to Florida with no state taxes, and then gets paid $68 million a year with no state taxes.
RobM
Bingo.
desertdawg
Or moves back to Japan.
stretch123
This is pretty nuts imo.
But looking at it from Othanis perspective I can see why. 52 million annually for the next ten years with the 50 mil endorsements and 2 million salary. Then 68 million for 10 years when he retires.
Quick math… 520 million plus 680 million makes him a billionaire at the age of 50 lol
Bobbyv8
That’s good math but 700m over 10 yrs cash on hand plus all the endorsements and investments could head him to more than 1Billion at 39 yrs
stretch123
True but this gives him a chance to win. Still feel the deferred money is extreme and why would MLB allow this ??
Ratherbesailing
68 million without taxes because he will be moving back to Japan instead of paying half in taxes to California
GreenMonsta
Ratherbe:
Spot On!!!
He only earns $20M while living California. Then, day after the 2033 season, he moves to Tax-Free Florida where he lives out his remaining year and collect the rest of his $680M. Excellent.
Ratherbesailing
California is fuming about this, I’m sure.
I hear California tax rate is almost 50%, they they lose 34 million in tax money for 10 years
Yanks2
Except it’s not really even 700m after taxes it’s about 350m
Rsox
If this is allowed to become a thing than there is absolutely no reason for small market teams to not be able to sign mega deals today that future owners will be on the hook for later
hiflew
I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Halo11Fan
Virtually any idiot could double their money over a ten year period.
They are getting Ohtani for nothing.
riffraff
The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half
—Will Rogers —
Halo11Fan
I love Will Rogers. Not appropriate here, but I love the guy.
NatsPhils
Well that is nice but they don’t “have the $68 million a year. They are avoiding paying it but not like they will have that cash around.
SupremeZeus
Every other organization has the ability to agree to such deferred $ Ks. Stop complaining and start spending.
Digdugler
NO OTHER PLAYER WOULD TAKE THE CONCESSIONS, this only works for Ohtani because he makes so much money in endorsements and it only works for Dodgers because he took a big discount (in deferred money) to play for the Dodgers.
SheaGoodbye
But that also means this isn’t likely to be a big issue moving forward, so no one should expect Manfred to lift a finger whether they like it or not.
Digdugler
Dodgers can invest the $680M, make probbably $1B or so PROFIT and then pay out Ohtani’s contract and keep all the interest that accrued lol.
VonPurpleHayes
I now think the Dodgers will be signing Yamamoto.
SalaryCapMyth
Damn. I completely forgot about that. You might be right.
cwizzy6
Ohtani admits himself that its so the Dodgers can field a more competitive team. Well, thems the breaks. Thats cheating the system. Buying a high priced FA *should* limit your ability to further improve the team.
Ratherbesailing
Agreed
wbz41
Don’t much care about the deferred money, but the AAV should be 70MM whether the player gets it now or later.
Thec’s
This is bull”””” I hope he loses it all! Why would the league approve such a deal!
Joirgro 2
By 2034 he may be living somewhere else and not have to pay California income taxes.
Ratherbesailing
Agreed, they should still be the 70 mil AAV
Ratherbesailing
California should be stepping in because they want to tax money, that they will never see.
I see the protection that baseball gets from government will be taken away. What do they call it Antitrust or something like that.
chart1234
Does this have any impact on payroll or cbt hit during the 2034-2043 seasons?
99socalfrc
I don’t believe it does. CBT hit is only for the years he is on the team
Rounders
Every year I wonder how the Dodgers can be beat, than I see Dave Roberts in the dugout and I know there is hope.
Rsk3228
This is the kinda stuff that happens in a video game and people laugh and say “that will never happen in real life.” What a blatant ripoff of the luxury tax. This need to be stopped by MLB.
zacharydmanprin
Bobby Bonilla called; he wants to renegotiate his deal.
Halo11Fan
Do you think any non-Dodger, non Japanese baseball fan is going to root for the Dodgers, or Ohtani.
There might be a few, but not many.
Ohtani is going to be one of the least popular players in baseball.
kreckert
I don’t care and neither should anybody else.
hiflew
MLB might not even be around in 2040, At least not in its current spending extravaganza. I have to wonder how this will affect any type of contract cap or maximum salary that might be put into effect by that point. These legalities are way above my pay grade, so I’m sure someone will have it figured out by then.
NatsPhils
I don’t think he can avoid US or CA taxes when the $68 million a year is paid out. Money was earned in the USA and specifically California.
This does seem circumvention of the CBA but I’m not a lawyer.
sfjackcoke
I don’t believe this is him or the LAD trying to get around CBT rules but rather Ohtani managing his personal income taxes both Federal and State. That said it reads and looks bad and this will likely get the attention of taxing authorities. This is in particular true of all those visiting cities that have a “local/city” tax where athletes perform as visitors and pay a tax + California.
So despite all the initial press reports of 10 years, $700 million contract, the deal simply isn’t worth that much. The “no-interest” component AND the payout starting effectively when he stops actually playing means he’s really getting paid significantly less.
This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a contract attempt to be tax optimized. Scherzer’s Nationals’ deal had deferred $ and roster bonuses paid out during the off-season, he lives in Florida as opposed to DC. It could be argued this can help narrow the tax gap between teams in theory at least. Not sure we’ve ever seen it on this scale, as I mention above tax authorities likely are gonna have a say on this, the press on it is big.
MLB has debt rules for teams and I presume this would include deferred compensation which if not funded is a debt obligation of the team. The optics are bad and if this isn’t already called out in the CBA I think you will see some rules surrounding it, The better way to look at this deal is ten 1yr contracts for $70M with a 10 year deferral of $68M.
Otherwise didnt’ we all think he was going there? He likes SoCal, he did his recruiting tour and in the end there wasn’t enough out there to make him move to somewhere else.
reneaguerra
You’re in the small minority on this & other threads on this subject with a well thought out comment.
sfjackcoke
Credit to the well thought out comment goes to a corporate finance background & sports management minor in college.
I will say this on the baseball side, so this deal swaps JD Martinez for Ohtani at DH at least for 2024, the latter is a few years younger and hits LH, a OPS+ of 134 vs 180, what’s that 2-3 wins?
Otherwise the entire LAD roster has aged 1 year AND Tony Gonslin is out for 2024, Clayton Kershaw is a free agent, has a November surgery with mid season 2024, Julio Urias is a free agent, likely suspended for 2024 and might never return to MLB. Walker Buehler is attempting to come back from his 2nd Tommy John procedure.
Speaking of 2nd Tommy John, Ohtani had one in 2018 and then he had an undisclosed second UCL procedure on Sept 19 and he’s supposed to be ready for opening day? Bryce (I’d like an extension) Harper has the record return from TJ at 160 days which would be start of spring training in 2024. Harper also has only DH’d or played 1st base now full time never to return to the OF. Ohtani’s is supposed to play AND rehab for a 2025 return to the mound? LAD and their doctors think he can so did other teams that saw his medicals. Can’t say there’s not risk here, there’s not really anyone you can point to other than him in 2019-20 as to how this works other than this is 2nd time around.
JGRADDON
I’m pretty sure this is against the CBA.
SheaGoodbye
People complain about NFL cap shenanigans, but this is something to behold.
SoCalHardBall
HUGE Dodger fan. With that said, this is so bad for baseball.
Kelland
How many players would accept lower pay like this? I was hoping he’d go to Toronto, I’d buy a jersey get in on the hype, won’t be doing that for the Dodgers – nor would I for either NY team. This is good for baseball on so many levels, I’m just gonna enjoy having Dodgers in the unholy triumvirate of teams to perennially root against! I will continue rooting for Ohtani, best in baseball – love this team-first move.
Dbacks
If the Dodgers invested that 680 million they deferred, into a 10-year CD at a 5% APY they would make 427 million of it back in 10 years
Dubbs
Yea, Steve Cohen’s the problem.
If this was the Mets structuring this contract they’d be forced to forfeit picks, pay an extra Cohen tax, and there would be a congressional hearing to impeach Steve Cohen as owner.
Has a similar “Rules for thee but not for me” tone.
What an atrocity.
slider32
Many of the top paid players never make it to the world series.. Right now , only Seager and
Betts have won.. The pitching in baseball still seems to be the key to winning, and pitching is outlier. This gives all the contenders a chance! Let’s remember that the Rangers and Arizona were in the world series last year, and the top players were home watching!
gdjohnson
Are the Dodgers required to purchase an annuity that pays out the $680M? Or are they trusted to pay the money out of their funds from 2034-2043?
padam
Creative. Guess they’ll be voting to increase the tax threshold in years to come.
good vibes only
I have no problem with a top market team like the Dodgers getting this dude for a massive contract. Its gonna be good for baseball for him to be on a team of this caliber. But I’m not ok with them not even having to pay the bill until 10 years from now. Not good for competition. I guess its within the rules so.. ok but it feels gross.
YourDreamGM
It’s legal and how he got 700m. Your team could have done this. He can get all the endorsement $ until he collects his Monopoly $. I have no idea how the dollar will be doing then and what the good investments will be but maybe he thinks he does. Personally I would take a lot less to have it right now.
DanD1014
Can somebody explain where the 46 million a year comes from?
socalbball
it’s the $2 million per year plus the present value of the deferred $68 million per year.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Most folks think this s/b taxed at $70M…..apparently. Me too!
Mooò….
tonightsspecialguest
The look on Ohtani’s face in the pic above says it all. WTF!
Gumby82
Manfred has ruined baseball
Yanks2
You’re about 5 years too late
reneaguerra
Read article XVI of MLB’s CBT & you whiners will move on to hating on Girl Scouts selling cookies.
desertbull
Yes, its within the rules.
The rules STINK
desertdawg
This may start the downfall of the MLB with change to the dispersing more dollars to the small market teams. The MLBPA has got to be all smiles and feeling real good right now, the Dodgers have given the keys to the league to them. With this contract given by the Dodgers management has blown open any chance of a salary cap. When you give out a contract like this and the MLB doesn’t even bat an eye to go over the ramifications of it to the league the MLBPA is sitting now real strong. It shows that the MLB has not one leg to stand on when it comes to controlling the size of contracts by the big market teams. No more of the MLB screaming poverty. The bottom feeders of team in the small markets cannot use the small market as an excuse, it’s almost like the NFL, where the MLB will be left to Owners of the big markets having to sub the small markets in order of getting real balance in the MLB.
MikeBSoxFan
Ohtani and the Dodgers agreed to a very lucrative contract for all of those involved. Other GM’s and Owners, like my beloved Chicago White Sox, should take note.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
This is quite over the top on acceptable. Manfraud should veto this.
1984wasntamanual
The amount of stupid children that visit this site is pretty crazy.
KranzwithaK
If it is deferred with interest, wouldnt the NPV for the deal be the same?
Echopark
It’s deferred without interest according to reports.
AL B DAMNED
THIS MAKES THE ASTROS LOOK LIKE NUNS!
JUST DOWNRIGHT CHEATING THE TAX! IF MLB ALLOWS THIS, THEN THEY ARE COMPLICIT IN CHEATING THEIR OWN SYSTEM!
desertbull
It was ALWAYS going to be the Dodgers. If you think he seriously considered any other team you are not paying attention.
spudchukar
My greater fear is what comes next. Nothing can stop the Bums from acquiring anybody. We will pay you more, but it means a lot of cashwill have to be deferred. Yamamoto, Bellinger. Martinez, Snell, a SS, Matsui, others.
Sky14
It’s funny people are mad that he is deferring most of the contract with no interest. Only hurts him. Granted if he took it outright, the total figure would be much smaller.
What’s interesting is it’s calculated as a $460 million contract, PV. That’s a fortune but a far cry from the record breaking headlines and much smaller than everyone was anticipating he’d get. That basically what Correa initially got last year (before all the drama).
curtism88
That’s criminal in terms of CBT avoidance. I suspect more players will do the same thing this offseason in order to help their teams bring in additional top line talent.
Fernando P
This is a blatant attempt to circumvent the luxury tax. I can’t believe that Manfred allowed this, but then again they changed the rules to allow Ohtani to stay in a game as DH even when he left as a pitcher. And they allow him to count as only a hitter when counting active pitchers in the roster.
These are rules and exceptions that only benefit one player and whatever team he is on.
aragon
Arte, you should have done this with Rendon’s contract!
I.M. Insane
Yet another reason (actually 68 million reasons) not to waste my time with baseball anymore.
dodgersfan445
Ohtani really said World Series or bust
settledownitsjustagame
He’ll go back to Japan a very rich man in 2026.
DrDick
Time to get rid of this loophole. This is what happens when the club executives think “well chances are I won’t be here 10 years from now so F it.”
Ashley69
The beginning of the end for Baseball …
Enjoy!
doggeral
People saying this is a scam are missing the point. The deferrals are reducing the tax hit because in reality Ohtani is getting the equivalent of 46 million a year. So in reality he is getting less money. If he took say a 600 million on at straight 60 per year this is worth a ton more. Not all players are willing to accept deferred money as all of us some players are greedy (fair). Additionally, i’m guessing it is all deferred without interest which is also something not all players are willing to do as adding interest would increase the tax hit. Not to mention again some players would demand interest even just pushing the deferral out by 2 or 3 years meaning the team is literally paying more rather than just adding playing years just because a player won’t give money back. Not all players are built the same some will go where they want and some want every single dollar they can get just like all of us in day to day life. Depending on how far out the money is moved the ~46 hit is in reality too high because truth be told the more money you have the higher rate of return you are able to get on money. Now why would MLB be fine with this because it really is more like he is getting 460 now rather than 700 so it makes sense; however, everyone just sees the 700 number which makes the MLBPA very happy because it raises the bar for players. To me this like complaining about an NFL contract while reading the contract number instead of the guaranteed number.
My Strawman > Your Strawman
He’s no Trevor Bauer
Hired Gun 23
I like it…it’s ‘out-in-the-open’ shady. Hahaha
BennyGiant
Hopefully they are charged the rest of the CBT hit they are avoiding for the decade of the deferred years.
DrDick
Of course no matter how unfair this seems to be, the hit is still a stupid $46 million a year for the next 10 years. Just take a look at Stanton to see what kind of an affect that can have 6, 7, 8 years down the road. Just because you’re the best hitter today, doesn’t mean you will be a few years down the road.
jjd002
But the Dodgers are not paying anywhere near $46 million for him, per year. They will pay the penalties associated with going slightly over the tax threshold. This is wrong on so many levels.
radhippo
Ridiculous! This should not be allowed!
YourDreamGM
Wait. Breaking news. According to JP and JP it’s not fair!!!!! Manfred en route.
jjd002
Imagine the outcry if a team like Houston did this. I’m all for the player getting paid, but it is unreal that this is allowed.
AL B DAMNED
WHO ARE THE DODGERS GOING TO INVEST THE $68M WITH EVERY YEAR? THE METS WERE GOING TO INVEST WITH BERNIE MADOFF! HOW DID THAT TURN OUT? ANYWAY, MLB HAS TO MAKE SURE THAT MONEY WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE TO OHTANI WHEN THE TIME COMES TO START PAYING UP THE SHONILLA DAY EVERY YEAR!
MoneyBallJustWorks
does anyone else find it weird that teams not only benefit by deferring money, but they also benefit on the tax? it feels like you should be punished if deferring money, not rewarded.
YankeesAreDodgersEast
Problem here with everyone whining, and crying, is that this is available for ANY club to engage in.
You billionaire owner just doesn’t care. You use the “small market” to hide that fact. There are no broke owners.
Too much whiney men today.
MoneyBallJustWorks
none are broke, but certainly some are worth way more than others.
LongTimeFan1
Though this move is legal in the CBA, it’s a slap in the face to the spirit of the rule and turn the game on its head. In a moral sense, its cheating the system and gives the Dodgers an unfair CBT advantage. Other teams are likely to follow and MLB may require they prove they can afford to defer. MLB should not approve this. It’s bad for the game. Chaos is going to erupt if this is the new system through loophole.
agnes gooch
Agree LongTimeFan, from another long time fan thoroughly disgusted with Manfraud and mlb. Sickening.
raisinsss
I can see it now:
The Switzerland Sousaphones have acquired 8-time MVP for his final season of professional baseball; dodgers agree to pay all remaining salary in exchange for PTBNL.
Echopark
This has to be about tax benefits for Ohtani. And/or cash flow issues for the Dodgers (though I am worried and curious why that would be so important to them). And maybe, the Dodgers will recoup some money by investing the short term savings. If they “pocket” 60 million a year plus 40 million in extra revenue – i.e., 100 million – they could be making an extra 5-10 million a year! This deal is about so much more than Ohtani on the field it’s crazy 3-D chess.
Simply fascinating.
Tyruss
Saying its unfair because you dont understand the value of money over time is hilarious.
YankeesAreDodgersEast
They’re saying unfair because their team owners are worth billions, but sadly don’t care about winning.
SheaGoodbye
You knew coming into this thread 95% of comments were going to be utter nonsense. It has not disappointed.
178iq
Hahahahah that’s hilarious. He could have signed for 1 year for 75 million anywhere and been paid in full. Unless he’s nervous he’s going to break down quickly.
Yanks2
He already has millions so it’s a moot point
YankeesAreDodgersEast
All teams are allowed to do this…..
TheBoatmen
So the Dodgers will declare bankruptcy in 2034 and the contract will go down as a 10 year 20M contract.
Ratherbesailing
This is so wrong. If all teams were allowed to do this, no teams would have to pay into the tax.
MLB should be against this.
I think MLB is losing all that extra CBT money
I guessing California is against this, think about it, after his career ends he could go back to Japan, and California would see none of that $68 million dollar tax money, instead of the 50% that California is rated at.
I guess all the teams that pay into the tax won’t like it either
doggeral
One assumes the dodgers would make the same moves and keep paying CBT at the highest rate which is not likely true they would otherwise stop spending at a predefined point they already have set. They are just able to add more players that could possibly (likely) end up on a team not near the CBT SF, TOR, BAL……Also taxes will get withheld by the team like any other paycheck government isn’t out anything and will always get their money.
Halo11Fan
I think there is going to be backlash. Most non-Dodger fans have a huge issue with this.
The Dodgers have supplanted the Yankees as the evil empire and Ohtani has gone from pure class to such an ass.
You can circumvent the loophole, but you will pay the public relation price.
agnes gooch
Right on Halo. You beat us in 2002 but I forgive you now in our combined hatred for the dodgers and this cesspool that Manfraud has created.
baseballpun
Seems like they need to tweak the rules.
Dtownwarrior78
This is such a joke. MLB should have things in place to deter teams from doing this kind of shady s**t but no. Otani will be bringing in a salary less than an average player that barely makes a roster? What a joke! Just another reason why NFL is king and MLB is basically the same 5-7 teams kicking the can around every single year.
FireMarinersMgmt
So technically, I could bring in 26 all-stars and pay them $26M for the season? Then figure things out later? Much later? Dude. BS. Down with MLB Baseball.
Ratherbesailing
Yes and make sure all your 26 players move to a place with no taxes when they retire
bxbombers857
Most players would not agree to be paid this way. Ohtani makes 40mil per yr in endorsement money. The next highest paid mlb player in endorsement money is trout with 5mil per yr. Ohtani is a unicorn. So he can do whatever he wants other players couldn’t afford to be paid this way
Yanks2
Sorry to inform you NFL is rigged
Fgh
This shouldnt be allowed. The rules will no longer exist because every team will do this. Mob allowing a super team to be created. Couldnt be worse for the sport
Ratherbesailing
I see no teams paying into CBT and the US government getting no tax money from baseball players ever again. They will all play and when they retire move to a place with no taxes to collect there money
Ratherbesailing
This could be the downfall for baseball.
What is that protective non competitive clause that baseball is protected from?
I think the government will take away if players aren’t paying taxes on all that money
nymetsdiva
Paging Bobby Bonilla….
highflyballintorightfield
Surely some other team could have offered more than $460 net present value, even on a regular 10-year contract. The Dodgers probably could have, too. Fans of other teams should be looking inward and asking why didn’t my team beat this offer?
99socalfrc
Seems like a good time to point out that the tax money paid gets allocated throughout the league. So how do the small market owners feel about this now? I mean knowing that their big brother is sidestepping the system, avoiding tax $$$ that that all owners agreed to.
Oh and that MLB is apparently fine with it.
Ratherbesailing
Agree that teams that receive revenue should be po’ed
AL B DAMNED
THIS OPENS MORE DOORS FOR SCOTT BORAS! JUST WAIT UNTIL SOTO’S NEXT CONTRACT BECOMES PUBLIC!
Ratherbesailing
Oh, yes, I see Boras licking his lips with this loophole
bxbombers857
Soto doesn’t have the endorsement money coming in like ohtani does. The differed money in sotos deal will not be anywhere close to this. My Yankees will not be as lucky as the dodgers, as far as cbt hit, when they try to resign soto
AboveHockey
Everyone in the dodgers front office and Ohtani should be sentenced to prison.
Jabronie23
Does that $46m CBT salary apply to the years after his contract, 2034-2043? If so, that makes this a little less ridiculous I guess. Even though $46m won’t be nearly as much in the 2030’s.
Ncsaint
No, just the 10
bxbombers857
No
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
This contract makes me hate Shohei so much! I hope he falls between 1st and 2nd as an earthquake slowly rips open the Earth and a groundhog comes out only to burrow into the next closest hole he can find!
TroyVan
This is actually quite foolish of him. In case he hasn’t noticed, the dollar’s inflation rate is rather high. Given the political situation in the U.S. as well as the out of control debt situation, he’s going to lose at least 50% of it to inflation over the life of the contract, and that’s being very conservative.
If he were smart, he’d take what he can get every year and invest in assets other than the U.S. dollar. Right now, he has next to no diversification. He has $680 million solely invested in the U.S. dollar at today’s value, 0% interest with a maturity date of like 2033.
Incredibly stupid on his part.
gnomon
I think he clearly understands his value, and the fact that he’s probably generating enough income from sources outside of MLB to make a nice living. Was it against his best interest to not take deferred money, most certainly. But it was a decision he chose to make to help the team build around him. And quite honestly, if you’re in that tax bracket, I don’t think he cares.
TroyVan
I actually did the calculation. The difference between investing 10 annual payments of $70 million at 6% ($1.05 billion) and deferring $680 million at 0% and 3% annual inflation ($476 million) is over a half a billion dollars. And that’s if the dollar is still around in 10 years. With the current national debt and runaway spending, there are reasons to question its survival.
Move over Bobby Bonilla. Your contract is no longer the dumbest in sports history.
Teamspirit
It was never about the money for Shohei. It was the chance to be part of the best baseball has to offer: the playoffs, and the world series. He will be rich beyond most peoples wildest dreams. He wants a respectable contract, a place in the record books and the hardware..
John Bird
I love baseball as a game but I’m quickly losing interest in MLB.
agnes gooch
Sadly right there with you John
AL B DAMNED
MLBTR WILL HAVE TO BUY MORE SERVERS & STORAGE FOR THE COMMENTS TO THIS ARTICLE!
Sadler
The shell game should not be allowed.
highflyballintorightfield
This provision is in the CBA because players want to provide every opportunity to reduce the consequences for team spending. Honest, serious question: can those who want a salary cap or elimination of the deferral provision present some arguments that might convince the players union to accept those changes? Because that’s what it will take.
NavalHistorian
You’re leaving out the big market/small market issue in MLB. Unlike the NFL, MLB owners really don’t consider themselves and their team just one part of a larger product (Major League Baseball.) Big market owners don’t want the same kind of revenue sharing the NFL has, and while they’d never admit it publicly, the only way they’d agree to a cap on *anything* is if it benefits them the most. The current rule on deferred money is what it is because both the MLBPA and a majority of the owners like it. This rule benefits teams too.
AL B DAMNED
I WOULD RATHER TAKE THE CASH OPTION!
AngelsFan1968
While the deferrals are allowed, the amount to Ohtani is staggering.
The Dodgers also have deferral agreements with Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman. Beginning in 2034, the Dodgers will be paying over $80 million dollars a year for 3 guys who more than likely won’t be playing baseball any more. How many teams for could afford this?
NavalHistorian
If the owner(s) properly invest their money, most big market teams can afford this. Some smaller market teams could afford this too, their ownership just won’t. It was only one player (and less $), but the reason Bobby Bonilla’s buyout ended up costing the Mets so badly is Bernie Madoff. If he hadn’t been running a Ponzi scheme (and if Wilpon hadn’t been incredibly nieve) that deal works out for them. The CBT isn’t a hard cap like the NFL. In MLB, the only real limit is how much ownership wants to spend.
juanc-2
All you crybabies are making me want to become a Dodgers fan, lol. Just stop. Who cares? It’s not your money
Sadler
This is such a stupid argument. It IS our money. Fans pay the salaries of players.
The Dodgers have already announced they will increase ticket prices. Concession prices will go up next.
Stop saying it is not our money. IT IS. Only rich people can attend games precisely because of contracts like this.
gnomon
Ticket and concession prices were going up regardless of Ohtani–that’s just simple inflation. Just be glad that your team (assuming that you are a Dodger fan) is truly committed to spending the money to improve the team. Or would you like them to go down the path of the team down the I-5?
Yanks2
I wonder how Preller feels about this
TheJoker
There is not enough Vaseline in the world. MLB has sent the world’s supply to the other teams. It would be wonderful if all the other teams refused to trade with LAD. They can continue to overpay their future free agents and draft to stock the minors.
YankeesAreDodgersEast
“All other teams not trade to LA”
If pathetic was a sentence.
TheJoker
Massengill sells what ails ya, YankeesR.
gary55wv
What a crock, MLB lacks leadership
CardsFan57
I’ve never been a fan of the CBT. This new convoluted rule makes me like it even less. Go to full media revenue sharing and stop the games. Let teams spend and defer as much as they want.
Rathipon
So the present value of this contract is roughly $430 million. And he becomes an enormous unsecured creditor of the Dodgers. All things being equal, he did a lot worse in free agency than most people predicted.
YankeesAreDodgersEast
BREAKING NEWS :
Your poopy billionaire owner is able to execute this is exact strategy, but doesn’t because A) Don’t care enough or B) Not smart enough
This isn’t a Dodgers only loophole, all you other clown organizations can do the same thing.
Enrico Pallazzo
MORE BREAKING NEWS PER Talkin Baseball twitter: Ohtani offered this same heavily deferred style contract to ALL the teams he negotiated with. Get over it you whiners
jasonthebuc
It is actually written into the CBA that deferred money is limitless. So don’t blame Manfred…blame the players!
NavalHistorian
The owners agreed to that provision. Big market owners don’t want an upper limit on deferrals either.
Wolf Hoffmann
LOL @ all the Libs crying over the contract. Too bad commies. Capitalism rules.
TrumboRedux
1/2 of that 2mil is going to his dog sitter…The other half goes to Ippei..
ignasis
Wow. I’m shocked how many people are misunderstanding this on so many different levels. This is not cheating, it’s not going into credit card debt, it’s not luxury tax avoidance, it’s not a bug in the CBA… And, no, I’m not a Dodgers fan…
The CBA was designed to allow teams to defer compensation and specifies the procedure through which the AAV of the contract will be calculated when it contains deferred compensation. By any reasonable definition, this cannot be cheating or luxury tax avoidance, or a bug in the CBA. It’s specifically accounted for and expected to be done.
Should this be done? That’s a separate discussion and I could appreciate why we all might not like it.
Look, at the end of the day, the Dodgers have an ungodly amount of money. They are going to spend an ungodly amount of money every year. The business people would just prefer to spend future dollars because they expect it is just more efficient to do so. They’d rather keep more of the revenue they generate today and invest it and grow the pot before having to pay out the deferred money in the future. So, when Ohtani/Balelo proposed this, I’m not surprised they jumped on it.
Ohtani will have an AAV of 46 million, let’s assume the Dodgers spend up to the top tax bracket without Ohtani’s contract and his contract is all taxed at the top bracket of 95%, and let’s round it to 100% for easy math… 2 million salary + 46 million luxury tax penalty = 48 million per year. If they paid him 46 million in salary this year on a 10/460 million contract… They’d be paying 92 million this year towards Ohtani and the associated tax…
It’s the same luxury tax hit of 46 million, it’s just more money out of their pockets today because they’d be paying the player more salary. In fact, there’s a strong argument to be made that they would not be willing to give Ohtani a 10/460 million contract if it did not contain deferrals. Maybe it’s only 10/440 million or less. The luxury tax hit is only 44 million per year then! So, they’re actually paying MORE tax.
For the financial flexibility they’re receiving today, they have a future financial obligation to pay him 68 million per year in deferred salary… But… again… the money will be worth less and they will be re-investing their savings today to help generate more money in the meantime to offset what they have to pay in the future. The Dodgers aren’t worried about the cash, they have it. They’re just optimizing how they utilize it. They won’t feel that 68 million in the future. Instead, they’re freeing up some spending room to acquire even more money and pay even more tax on top of this contract… It’s the exact opposite of luxury tax avoidance… lol…
We were all shocked when we saw 700 million, and that’s because the number was unbelievably dumb. He isn’t worth 700 million in present day value, and he didn’t get 700 million. We just understand now why that number was so unbelievable, it’s because the deferrals are about as extreme as you could make them. It’s almost 100% of the money at literally 0% interest rate.
I felt that Ohtani probably lost at least 100 million when he tore his UCL. He probably did! I think we were all expecting prior to the UCL tear something like 10/500 to 10/550 million without any deferrals. He didn’t get that.
Halo11Fan
It’s not credit card debt.
If I could borrow 1o million on a credit card and owe 10 million after 10 years, I’d do it in a minutes.
It’s amazing how many people are jumping through hope trying to pervert what this is.
It’s not complex.
gnomon
I don’t understand your point. If it’s that the Dodgers got a good deal, well, that’s probably up for debate in the long run. But it certainly helps their chances at maintaining a playoff caliber team for the duration of the contract. However, even a reduced CBT hit of $46M for ten years is a massive risk to take.
I get it. I’m guessing that you’re an Angel fan. I’m pretty sure that if Moreno thought that Ohtani would take that same deal, he would have done it yesterday. The problem is that Ohtani was done with the Angels. He gave them 6 tremendous seasons where he was underpaid for his performance, and they couldn’t build a playoff team with him and Trout. They had their chance and blew it.
ignasis
I think this is directed at me…?
The point was largely just that it’s not cheating, it’s just providing the Dodgers some financial flexibility today. It actually ensures they pay MORE not less luxury tax if it causes them to increase spending today.
Also, this amount of deferral is extreme and seems weird… but… It makes sense given that 700 million was a ridiculous number. None of us believed the number. Turns out it was a misleading number. And this deferral should really make a lot of sense to people given how we couldn’t understand 700 million…
Ohtani is arguably not even the most valuable player in baseball right now AFTER his second UCL tear… No question he was before the tear. He is a full time DH who is a great hitter, but definitely not the best hitter in baseball, who has major uncertainty about what kind of pitcher he may be moving forward… We also concentrate two players worth of risk into one body that may be experiencing more wear and tear than any other body in the MLB…
He’s still a great player, maybe still the most valuable player in baseball… but… 46 million a year reflects his value a lot better than 70 million a year… So, this is not surprising and really makes the last few days make a LOT more sense…
10/700 million without deferrals was just stupid and easily among the worst contracts in MLB history. The Dodgers aren’t that dumb, and we now understand…
And no, I’m not an Angels fan.
NavalHistorian
I think people understand it, some just don’t like it and can’t accept the fact it’s completely legal. Ted Lerner offered Harper a 10-year $300 million deal with $100 million in deferred money. Under the terms of that offer, the Nats would have paid Harper every year until he’s 60. The only thing different with Ohtani is the $ amount. On that, the CBA’s clear. The $ amount on deferrals is “limitless.” Every team in MLB knows that. The owners collectively bargained it with the MLBPA. The small market owners aren’t ever going to get an upper limit on deferrals because neither the MLBPA or the big market owners want one. This is extremely intelligent “capology” by the Dodgers and Ohtani.
ignasis
I definitely think this is true for some people. I do think a solid 30% of the people in the comments, possibly 50%, simply don’t understand it though.
I don’t really know how intelligent this “capology” really is… I don’t think it really adds any value other than it gives some cashflow flexibility to teams that would do this. You can reduce expenditure today at the cost of expenditure tomorrow…
Assuming the numbers are calibrated correctly in that teams would be negotiating with players the same amount in present day value… So, deferrals would increase the total number of dollars… You’ve still got to pay out the same amount of present day value, and the same amount of tax. You just get to choose when you do it, to some extent…?
Drumcliff
MLB turning itself into NBA. Not good.
Dwalt
Have to imagine taxes are only going to go up in the future. Guy is making bank no matter what. Owner will sell the team when it comes time to pay and leave it for the next owner and fans to pay.
flyinhawaiian
Thank the Lord I very rarely comment on this site. Reading these comments I’m embarrassed for today’s society. Damn…..people are stupid!!
jade 2
Like people forgot there are things more important than money. And it’s not like the dude is gonna walk the earth destitute!
Enrico Pallazzo
All of you whining idiots realize that this is legal and that any team could do this if both they and the player want to right? Also Ohtani was the one offering this style contract to all the teams that negotiated with him. So no, it’s not cheating or bending the rules. Cheating would be when you have a complicated system of cameras and operators decoding catchers signs and then relaying to batters in real time with a system of trash can banging noises.
SFGLifer
LOL @ you whose argument is “any team could’ve done this, they just chose not to.”
gnomon
Well, it’s mostly true whether you like it or not. Perhaps the better way of saying it is by adding that any player could have agreed to a contract where 97% of the contract is deferred, but not anyone (probably none) would take it.
The truth is that ANY team, had they known that Ohtani would have agreed to it, would have done the same. The problem is that Ohtani didn’t want to go to any team. He wanted the Dodgers.
CantShadowBanFishersBlumpkins
Taking “paying for past production” to the extreme.
If you’re reducing your luxury tax hit from $70 mil to $46 mil by paying so much in future dollars, you are telling everyone that you don’t plan on selling anytime soon. Because this contract hamstrings all sales talks and could be a massive tumor in future payrolls. But, if I’m GM or POBO I know that’s a problem for somebody else.
GreenMonsta
Anybody know CA Tax Laws?
Ohtani only receives 20M While playing the 10 years for LA. California has a high income tax rate. If he moves to Florida, right after the 10th season, where there is no income tax, would he be by-passing all those CA taxes, while he collects the deferred income?
Halo11Fan
I don’t think that’s the case. The money is still earned from California.
Ratherbesailing
I think California will be voting to get rid of baseballs antitrust protection now
GreenMonsta
Found my own answer:
“compensation is taxable by California because the income has a source in California, the state where you performed your services.”
Human Being
Like this if you read through 20,000 comments and found this comment.
Ncsaint
This is not gaming the CBT, it is gaming the record for biggest contract.
People who think this is the same as a contract that pays him $700 million over the next ten years and should be taxed as such need to spend less time on comment threads and more time lending me money interest free for a decade.
AL B DAMNED
IF THIS IS NOT UNDER SUSPECT BY MLB, EXPECT STEVE COHEN TO GO CRAZY NEXT YEAR, IF NOT NOW! STILL A FEW HIGH DOLLAR FREE AGENTS OUT THERE, & FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, DODGERS, YANKEES, & METS WILL HAVE “ALL” OF THE TALENT NO MATTER THE COST! CBT IS A JOKE IF THIS PASSES AS A $2M SALARY HIT! I’VE HEARD OF A $46M CBT HIT, BUT HOW IS THAT FIGURE CACULATED?
One Bite Hotdog
WHY ARE WE YELLING?!?!?!?!??!
Robrock30
Lol,
Dodgers are playing 3D Chess here. The Ohtani deal was structured so that they can afford and entice Yamamoto. Impressive FO outrunning the rest of MLB. Honors awarded.
YankeesBleacherCreature
@Pads Fan having an aneurysm now.
farscott
This is basically a ten-year contract for $46 million per year with $44 million per year deferred for ten years at about 5% interest per year. In those terms, the contract current value was less than expected.
I do not understand the hate the contract is getting. Other than the percentage being deferred, it is not too novel. From a financial standpoint, the APR is less than Bobby Bonilla got from the Mets when they thought Madoff’s returns were going to continue to be higher. It is a bit higher than the current 10-year Treasury, so the APR is not horrible. Not a bad deal for either side.
Halo11Fan
No it’s not. The 46 million is an accounting figure.
farscott
The $46 million is the present value of the annual salary. The $70 million is the future value. Compound interest is a thing.
Halo11Fan
It’s an accounting figure. Except for luxury tax considerations, it’s meaningless. And since they are paying him 2 million a year, it’s even more meaningless
desertdawg
I wonder if the Dodgers have taken an insurance policy out on Othani, it is a 10 yr. deal, he will be 30yrs old next season, coming off TJ surgery, is not going to pitch in 2024, so if he does pitch again, it won’t be till 2025, MLB pitchers usually start losing MPH around the age of 33 ala Kershaw. So that leave him with a bat in his hand, he is not a good fielder in the outfield, they already have a great first baseman, so that leaves the outfield. Which in turn makes his strong point being a DH, that is a lot of money for a DH for 10 years. Not to say it was a bad sign by the Dodgers, but a risky investment at best. Insurance policy to get the full value of the contract.
justsaying
I’m really looking forward to 2034 and the following years to see how this might come back to bite the Dodgers.
gnomon
Not likely to happen unless the TV deal falls apart a la Bally’s. But even then, it’s just $$ to them at that point and it shouldn’t necessarily impact their ability to field a good team. It’s more likely to impact them in the next ten years if Ohtani gets injured because even at a discounted rate of $46M per year, it’s a pretty big chunk of the CBT.
GreenMonsta
Dont get your hopes up. Disney made at least a half dozen $200M loser movies this year without a problem. The Guggenheim people will be just fine.
revolver
If the Dodgers happen to win a world series in the next ten years it will far exceed the asterisk they achieved in 2020 and even perhaps the Astros tainted season
maxmilna
You sound jealous af
One Bite Hotdog
It’s also fair to place an asterisk on a half season WS Championship.
baked mcbride
Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble!!!!!
AL B DAMNED
SUPPOSEDLY, ALL TEAMS WERE OFFERED THIS SAME CONTRACT STRUCTURE! WELL, NOW WE KNOW WHY OHTANI WANTED SECRECY & NOBODY COULD TALK OR THEY WOULD HOLD IT AGAINST THE TEAM??? THIS IS CRAZY STUFF, HIS NEGOTIATORS MUST BE JAPANESE MOB FIGURES, OR DAMN GOOD AGENTS & LAWYERS! PLEASE DON’T REPEAT ANYTHING I SAID, OR ELSE!
gnomon
Grow up
taran7
Fine with this Dodgers fan since I’ll most likely be dead by the time they have to pay the 68 a year.
waldfee
In other words: it’s far from “the richest contract” in sports.
Taking into account a 5% interest rate, those $70 MM annually would be worth $924 MM in 2033. By 2043 that sum would have turned into $1.505 billion.
Instead, Ohtani’s $2 MM annually will generate a little over $6.4 MM interest in ten years and then another $17 MM until 2043. Adding the $898 MM, generated by those $68 MM deferred annual payments between 2034 and 2043, Ohtani stands to lose $564 MM due to the Dodgers’ financial scheme, ending up with $941 MM instead of the aforementioned $1.505 billion.
The Dodgers, on the other hand, will collect $414 MM in interest on an initial sum of $700 MM minus $2 MM in annual salaries until 2033. The deferred payments of $68 MM per annum between 2034 and 2043 will net them another $209 MM in interest.
With $613 MM in collected interest due to the payment deferral, Ohtani will cost the Dodgers only $87 MM for ten years of service.
Had Ohtani signed for, let’s say “mere” $500 MM without deferred salaries, he’d have $660 MM by 2033 and $1.075 billion ten years later in 2043 or $134 MM more than his alleged “richest contract in sports” actually earns him.
Seamaholic
There are huge tax implications for Ohtani as well. Particularly if he returns to Japan after the contract is up but before the payments kick in.
waldfee
Yeah, I didn’t even get to taxes and inflation numbers since that discussion would be beyond the scope of this comment section.
SeibuLionsNPB
I don’t like this any more than any other fan here complaining because it negatively affects my team. But it is within the rules of the CBA. The Dodgers can afford this contract and apparently Ohtani is okay with less future money so he can win. Nothing wrong with either statement. Endorsement money is still more than most players actual contracts are. He is a really great player so maybe he gets his wish and is playing for championships for the duration of his contract. Atleast he didn’t pick the Phillies .
ibuititnoonecame
This is the beginning of the end for MLB
Aiden Awe
10 billion dollars business a year I don’t think so. Some of you are not MLB fans.
Mickey Solis
It’s pretty disgusting and I don’t root for injuries but man I hope Ohtani regresses big time and the Dodgers get burned for abusing the system the way they do and the way the Yankees did for decades (and still do basically). I was so happy it was a Rangers-Diamondbacks World Series because I knew this collusion garbage was coming and the Dodgers would be hellbent on hogging all the stars and Manfred loves it because why wouldn’t he? We haven’t had a big-market World Series since Boston spanked LA (thank goodness for that) in 2018. And because of the Dodgers incessant whining about 2017 when Houston beat them on THEIR OWN FIELD in Game 7 Manfred I’m sure feels like he owes the Dodgers.
Yankeesforever
that’s a BS contract. The league needs to step in and stop this.
LordD99
This is all fine by the CBA, and it’s been done before, just not quite to this level. Both sides agreed to it because both sides can benefit from it. Now, this being such an extreme case may lead to altered language in future CBAs, perhaps limiting the percentage that can be deferred, but I can’t see a scenario where either the team or the player would agree to it.
I’ve read that this is a great selfless act by Ohtani, as he wants to win and this will free up some resources for the Dodgers. Yes, now, when he’s playing for the team, but isn’t it selfish of him to restrict the spending power of future Dodgers teams that he’s no longer on? They’re going to be paying out $38 million a year starting in a decade to a player contributing nothing on the field!
So is he selfless or selfish?
gnomon
I think it’s pretty selfless because I don’t think any player would have agreed to having 97% of their contract deferred. The move helps the team build around him and gives them a bit more flexibility over the ten years because of the lessened CBT hit.
As for the Dodgers, it’s just money to them once his playing contract ends–the same as any cost of doing business. Barring any disastrous business problems a la Bally’s, etc., it shouldn’t impact their ability to field a team in ten years.
gdjohnson
To everyone complaining about the $46 Million cap hit, think of it this way. Ohtani will be paid 2M in cash next year and the Dodgers will purchase an annuity that costs 44M which matures in 10 years and pays 68M. That is why Ohtani is earning $46M a year, not $70M.
30 Parks
Dodgers are that team in your fantasy baseball league nobody likes.
SausageOfDoom
This pretty much allows LA to buy any of the available free agents they want. I wonder if other teams will ask some of their players to restructure deals like this.
Also it’s a dick move by the GM – likely sticking his successor with a $68 million per year bill.
gnomon
How so? Perhaps for any small market team, this would be a deal breaker, but for a large market franchise like the Dodgers, the cash after ten years is just cash, much like any cost of doing business. It shouldn’t impact their ability to field a team.
chrcritter
oh good, now we get to hear about Ohtani another day instead of moving on to other news
LordD99
Don’t worry. This will all clear out in 10 years or so.
User 3044878754
Ohtani and his agent are clear idiots and don’t understand the time value of money. As a financial analyst, plugging the contract terms into my algorithm, the future value of his deferred money is decreasing year by year with inflation to the extent that a $68 million/ yr salary with an annual inflation rate of 4-5% makes the annual salary about $10 million yr., which is hardly anywhere near his true value. Ohtani s a fool
HankAaronDidGreenies
He wants to win a ring now and climate change will bring average temps to death levels by the time his contract is officially over. Ohtani is playing smart.
Catuli Carl
@HankAaronDidGreenies LOL
Ejemp2006
Brady took massive paycuts his whole career so the Pats could afford to surround him with elite talent. Ohtani seems to be aiming for the same GOAT type legacy and that motivated him to take this absurd contract. Pure genius.
unpaidobserver
Yeah but even Brady–except for his rookie season–never played for no $2MM a year.
ROCKY07
Baloney….Brady was married to a model ATM machine who massively out earned him and could again at ant time….
Dock_Elvis
Ejemp- genius? The dude took the pay deferred without interest on 700M. Gamble on his own brand. But if his arm doesn’t come back he’s a DH pushing 30.
RobM
I don’t believe you understand at all what he’s doing here, and most importantly, why he’s doing it. We also don’t know future variables, such as where he’ll be living when he begins collecting the $680MM in future earnings. It certainly won’t be California.
FrontOfficeStan
Rob with the best comment. Waiting to be out of California is going to save him a ton of money.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Still on the hook for federal taxes, and assuming he plays out the 10 years for the Dodgers he probably won’t be able to establish residency outside of California until after he’s done playing. And it could take him up to a full year or more to establish residency elsewhere.
Dock_Elvis
RobM- He’ll still be paying income tax on that money in CA where it was earned. No way in he-ll they don’t come for that.
gnomon
Sour grapes
Kyatt 2
Lmao, you are the idiot. Ohtani makes around 50 mill a year in endorsements alone. That still put him between 50 to 55 mill yearly. Deferring his salary to after he retires regardless of inflation will still net him the biggest retirement check in history. You obviously didn’t think about the endorsement side that he won’t have after he retires so getting that money after is a huge win. Oh did I forget it also gives him a chance to win multiple Championship which will also sky rocket his endorsements. Lol, your the one missing the business aspect of it all
ThonolansGhost
OIC2021- I can’t tell if you’re joking… If you’re not, then you have no idea what you’re talking about.
JoeBrady
You are decidedly not a financial analyst if you think $10M a year for a ten-year contract is going to morph into $700M of total payments.
mlbdodgerfan2015
It’s a moronic financial decision but quite honorable that he wants to win and not trying to grab every penny.
HBRC1987
He’s still getting all of that money though so its not honorable at all. All these multi millionaires can’t even spend a fraction of their money before they die. Honorable would be to donate the money to those who need it.
Dock_Elvis
Davey…what makes you think he doesn’t donate? Man the eventually tax hit where he’s earning rhat money will probably build a school some day. Yeah he’s gonna pay CA income tax
HBRC1987
Elvis… because when people donate they make sure there is a photo op and that it gets publicized. My point was, calling him “honorable” just because he wants to be a winner and be better than everybody is just laughable.
Em 2
We can pay you 2 million now. Plus 68 when we reach Alderran
Oldhalo
I get it. Koodos to the Dodgers for their (or Ohtani’s) creative financing that will allow them to load up on talent now and perhaps be a Dynasty for the next 5-7 years, whilst stretching out the contract even further lessening the actual value of the contract as the dollar looses value over time, buying time for a change/higher luxury tax threshold to avoid the penalties to some degree and ultimately working the system to their fullest advantage. How is this good for the game? It’s great for LA but the rest of the league? Baseball can be unpredictable and there are no guarantees when it comes to winning but if you are able to load up and maximize loop holes it is going to ruin the game. I really really wish that their was a flat salary cap just as there is in the NFL. I just can’t see how a contract structured this way can be good for the game.
NavalHistorian
How is this a loophole?
The CBA specifically states the $ amount on deferrals is “limitless.” The owmers and MLBPA collectively bargained this deal. Every team’s front office *knows* what’s in it! If they don’t, that’s terrible management.
The *only* thing new with Ohtani’s deal is the $ amount.
GMs/owners have been looking at using deferred money different ways for years. When the Nationals offered Harper a 10-year $300 million deal, not only was $100 million of it deferred, the offer spread out the payments until Harper was 60 years old in order to reduce the yearly impact of that $100 million on the Nats.
Oldhalo
Perhaps “loophole” was the wrong term. But it certainly isn’t the basis of my argument. I’ll re-phrase. Koodos to the Dodgers for maximizing the structure of a written document to their advantage at the detremint of the overall game, and for likely exploiting it in a manner not even imagined until Ohtani.
NavalHistorian
This has most definitely been imagined before. Forget the dollar amount and look at how the contract’s structured. The contract’s stuctured to allow the Dodgers to stay competitive.
As I wrote in my previous post, the Nationals 10-year $300 million offer to Harper included $100 million in deferred money. Those payments were to be spread out over 30 years! Harper’s yearly “salary” from the Nats would be around $3.3 million per year. That would have hardly kept them from being competitive despite paying Harper.
This is exactly what the Dodgers did. The dollar amount is just different, and they’re paying him the deferred money over 10 years instead of 30.
Oldhalo
You’re still missing it and are leaning on the fact that what they did is perfectly allowable. I don’t disagree that what was done is allowable. That is the business side. My point is, as a fan, is that it promotes less competition. Because of the deferral in money and time, they can still go out and grab more top tier talent while also minimizing the financial impact of Ohtani’s contract. Again, I’d like to see a salary cap.
iverbure
How is it a detriment to the game? Why do fans think they’re entitled to mega superstars playing on their team?
filihok
Oh
“My point is, as a fan, is that it promotes less competition. Because of the deferral in money and time, they can still go out and grab more top tier talent while also minimizing the financial impact of Ohtani’s contract”
Any team could have done the same. So how does it promote less competition?
JoeBrady
Any team could have done the same.
======================
They won’t agree with this statement, because they won’t understand this statement.
TB can defer all of its $119M 2024 payroll to 2025 if it wants. It doesn’t matter what the $120M is. All they have to do is to come to an agreement with all its players that they will give them a 10% increase over their 2024 salaries, but it would be paid in 2025 instead.
Al the players would accept, because they like having more money. And the league would take the new $132M and discount it by 4.43%, and that becomes their new 2024 CBT salary.
Anyone can do this.
cencal
It isn’t. There are no such things as loopholes when it comes to massive amounts of money. This or the tax code. There are mechanisms in place and you use them or you don’t. Most can’t because that is the way it’s DESIGNED.
LA and Ohtani were just smarter. Simple
StreakingBlue
Why is it not good for the game for a player to willingly forgo a hefty financial payday for today. I think this is very creative for both parties. I don’t have an issue with it.
disadvantage
@streaking
“I don’t have an issue with it.”
*Looks at username and image* Huh, I wonder why?
gnomon
I think the point is that you shouldn’t have an issue with it because your team–whatever that may be–could and probably would do the same if they were in the same position. Nothing wrong with that.
NavalHistorian
I’m a Nationals fan. Because they don’t own their TV broadcast rights, financially the Nats aren’t a “big market” team and never will be one. There’s only two ways my favorite team’s ever going to be competitive in free agency. 1. Have deep pocketed owners who are willing to spend.. 2. Get creative with contracts.
The Nats were able to sign Max Scherzer because the Lerners and Scherzer’s agent got creative with deferred money. The Lerners tried to do the same thing with Harper, which is the only way they were going to be able to afford him and put a decent team on the field. Unfortunately, it didn’t work, but they tried.
MLB is *never* going to have a hard cap. Neither the players nor the big market owners want one. Allowing owners/GMs/agents to manipulate deferred money really can help a team sign players they might not otherwise be able to get. It just takes creativity on the part of the team and a willingness by the player and his agent.
disadvantage
@gno – Or… it could be his team greatly benefitted from something a lot of people are calling a loophole and he’s happy about it. And if not, he can substantiate.
And for the record, I wouldn’t be happy with it even if the Giants did it. Just as, which I loved watching him hit, lost respect for Bonds for suddenly putting on 50 lbs of muscle somehow.
iverbure
You DONT WANT your team signing free agents. That’s how you end up with corbins and Strasbergs albatross deals
Dock_Elvis
Streaking- it’s a very risky thing for most teams. It means projecting your value and that of MLB itself 10-20 years down the road. It’s not at interest…but it’s speculation.
Yankee Clipper
Oldhalo: The NFL quite literally can do the same thing… it’s in their contract specifically to avoid the cap. It’s a joke how many people yearn for the NFL mode I’m MLB, yet when MLB does the same thing as the NFL people throw massive fits.
poppopts
Don’t worry, The Dodgers will still find a way to blow it in the playoffs for the next 10 years. With this kind of contract, soon the MLB will consist of about 8 teams as all the small market teams will be gone.
maxmilna
2024 The year of jealous crybabies
StreakingBlue
You can tell Ohtani is all about winning.
Neon Cop
Dude hasn’t made the MLB playoffs ever.
Bobbyv8
Yep ohtani is all about winning but he couldn’t Win with Trout( oh right not his fault) , he chooses easier path to go to a rich team and begs them to take him and pay only 2m/yr so he can have his ring and call him self a winner.
Would you say the same if Ohtani goes to have an avg season and 0 for X in during the post season and wins a ring , he is a winner too!
OilCanLloyd
I guess if MLB approves of it. I’m guessing if Tampa Bay tried this, it would not be sanctioned by the league.
LordD99
It’s in the CBA and it’s been done before.
ckc12537
Could you imagine the uproar if the Astros had done this? The league’s favorability of the Dodgers is insane
Ratherbesailing
That would make the baseball insane.
gnomon
Please… it would the same if any team did it. Just hope your team is smart enough and positioned to make the move when it’s available.
ckc12537
Hahaha if you say so. I guarantee you that Manfred would not allow this if the Astros were trying it. That guy hates Houston.
gnomon
Not likely because Houston could have (and probably would) if the same deal was offered to them. There’s nothing that Manfred or MLB rules can do about it.
ckc12537
So you’re admitting that Manfred has rules to follow? Huh. Who knew.
filihok
ckc
“Could you imagine the uproar if the Astros had done this? The league’s favorability of the Dodgers is insane”
Uproar by who?
The only people upset by this are fans who don’t understand finance
ckc12537
Ok lol
mheinken
to be fair, if Tampa did it there would be a real concern that they would default on the payments, sell the team or declare bankruptcy. for all these reasons, MLB should look long and hard at this even though it is the Dodgers
disadvantage
If Tampa Bay tried this, I’m sure the league would be more worried trying to figure out who they just robbed to come up with all of that money.
baseballfan90
Man forget this. The Dodgers should be heavily taxed for the entire $700M, not just $2M a year. And honestly, if they’re going to operate like this, they shouldn’t get to draft for a few seasons. Heck, MLB should be allowed to implement a dispersal draft on their current farm system to the rest of the league!
gnomon
They’re not being taxed for contract value of $2M per year. They’re taking a CBT hit of approximately $46M, which by any measure, a pretty big hit.
This isn’t anything new or anything that any other team in the MLB wouldn’t have jumped at the chance if they were given the opportunity. It was just the perfect storm where you had a generational player who was willing to make sacrifices for a team he really wanted to play for. Now, that’s not to say that he would have agreed to take the same deal with say, the KC Royals, but that’s his decision. The Dodgers wanted Ohtani, and Ohtani wanted the Dodgers.
filihok
bbf
“The Dodgers should be heavily taxed for the entire $700M, not just $2M a year. ”
You think the tax in $2 million a year is $46 million?
ckc12537
I see your point, but should US taxpayers be taxed on the income they earn today or their expected income in 10 years?
baseballfan1
I see there are a lot of people who don’t understand what’s happening that are very angry.
SheaGoodbye
Welcome to the internet.
mlb fan
“That are very angry”..Cry babies will always find something to cry and be unhappy about. It’s what they do.
JoeBrady
The less people understand, the angrier they get.
ckc12537
Sounds like the republican party.
JoeBrady
Yup, the democrats just vote for whoever they are told to vote for, and couldn’t care less.
ckc12537
Thanks for proving my point.
Eatdust666
Absolutely
Wheeler Dealer
Who gives a rats ass really
Ranger Danger19
There’s so many angry people out there. Just win the World Series and be happy.
JoeBrady
Like 90% of the people in here don’t know how deferrals work.
Take a simple analogy. If you buy a $300k house with a 30 year mortgage, then you pay $600k over 30 years. But it is still a $300k house, not a $600k house.
Wrian Washman
So you used the inherently unfair housing financing issue designed to keep people in debt to compare the situation too.
cencal
I think you are looking for Reddit!
mlb fan
“Inherently unfair”…How is this “Inherently unfair”, when it’s allowed in the CBA and any team can do it?…Because you say so?
JoeBrady
WTF? Designed to keep people in debt? It is designed to keep people warm.
But it is still a valid comparison.
Have an a1 day
Where’s Pads Fan now? Looks like he’s wrong.
For competitive balance tax purposes, a contract is measured in net present value as opposed to pure guarantee, so this works for luxury tax purposes also.
filihok
And OutInLettField seems to have disappeared too after spending all day Sunday arguing that the Dodgers would be on the hook for $70 million a year for Ohtani.
JoeBrady
Filihok, I don’t know if you saw it, but I recommended a wager between you and Pads Fans on who was right on the CBT, only to get rid of him for a while.
filihok
JB
I don’t know who that is
I’m just waiting for OutInLettField to show back up.
On, I guess, Sunday they were very adamant that the Dodgers would have $70 million count against the CBT
Obviously they were very not correct
JoeBrady
Where’s Pads Fan now? Looks like he’s wrong.
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If you count each individual denial as one mistake, and count Soto, the SDP spending, and the CBT, Pads Fans has been wrong more often this month than I have been in my entire life.
But at least some of the Padre fans understand the CBT issue. I almost never gloat. If folks don’t understand it, I explain it. If they still don’t understand it, so what? Almost everything in my car is a mystery to me.
But Pads Fans is truly insufferable. He will insist he is right, and the insult anyone that disagrees with him, and then refuse to admit he is wrong, even when proven so,
roiste
People mad at this do not understand the basic economic principle of the time value of money. Money now is worth more than an equivalent amount of money later, due to both inflation and the fact that money you have now can earn interest through investment that money you receive later cannot.
So, because Ohtani is waiting to receive so much of his money, the true value of this contract today, both in terms of its benefit to him and a cost to the Dodgers, is WAY less than $700M dollars. The Dodgers are not “cheating” the luxury tax – the value of the contract they gave him is genuinely worth $460M from an accounting perspective. It makes complete economic sense for their penalty to be adjusted accordingly.
The league should not change this policy, and I hope they don’t. Contract structures like this could enable motivated small-market teams to sign marquee superstars to big deals at a much lower effective cost. That is GOOD for parity, which is already plenty high in the league. Any attempt to restrict this type of deal would just be an excuse to suppress player salaries, which a game that has been losing elite talent to other sports for decades definitely should not do.
all in the suit that you wear
Roiste: I appreciate your posts. Can all teams afford to start paying one player $68M per year for 10 years starting in 2034? If not, the rules need to be changed so the richer teams don’t get a break on their CBT calculations because their higher revenue streams allow more deferred payments. Maybe all teams can afford to do this, but I just don’t see it at the moment.
mlb fan
“Can all teams afford to start paying one player 68M”?..We already know not all teams are created financially equal because some teams sign ultra expensive players and some teams don’t. A pretty silly argument based entirely on emotion and feelings.
filihok
aits
”
Can all teams afford to start paying one player $68M per year for 10 years starting in 2034? “.
Probably
Any team that could afford to pay him $46; million a year in 2024 definitely could pay him $68 million in 2033, at least
This doesn’t give large market teams any EXTRA advantage. $46 million in 2024 is equal to $68 million in 2033
ckc12537
You’re assuming that the 10 year inflation rate is 4.44%. I highly doubt that inflation will remain 2.4% over the Fed’s target. Even if inflation is similar to the past ten years, that’s only ~3.05% over the next ten years. I’d say $46 million today is probably closer to being worth $60 million in 2033.
Fun exercise tho
mheinken
no small market team could take on the risk of paying a player 68 million dollars a year in the future when they aren’t getting that player. MLB wouldn’t allow it with one of them for the very real fear they would sell the team near the start of the deferrals (or even worse, they declare bankruptcy)
jb226
Apparently this is how it works so it is what it is, but I’ve been talking about this with a friend for a few days now and I can’t honestly fathom how MLB has allowed this system to exist like this.
Whatever Shohei Ohtani’s value to his team is over the length of this contract, it certainly doesn’t go down depending on how you structure the financials. Being able to wiggle out of 35% of what should be your tax hit depending on how you structure it is completely antithetical to its purpose. The fact that it’s being done with the express intention of allowing the Dodgers to add even more is proof of that, were any more proof needed.
roiste
But they’re not “wiggling out of 35% of what should be your tax hit”. By deferring this much money, Ohtani effectively took a 35% pay cut off of the $700M sticker price. He basically signed a 10-year, $460M contract, with a team-friendly payment schedule that isn’t really different than any other ring-chasing discount we’ve seen star players give good teams across all major sports.
Atloriolesfan
But it’s also Ohtani tax friendly. In California he pays 13% state tax. 13% on $2m rather than $46m is $5m per year!!! When he’s done with baseball, he’s done with CA. Same on the federal tax level. If he returns to Japan at the end of the contract, he has saved roughly $140m in US tax liability!!!
cencal
Good for him. He earned the money. Not Gavin Newsome to waste on nonsense
mlbdodgerfan2015
Doubt that he can avoid taxes in both the US and Japan. He’ll have to pay them somewhere with some credits. Doubt the tax codes work that way. If he does, it’s called tax evasion.
He can certainly avoid CA state income taxes when he’s done playing for the Dodgers but it will take time to establish residency out of state. I’m sure he’ll be on the hook for CA state income the eleventh year and potentially some of the twelfth year.
Kershaw'sRightArm
Stage set: Clayton is sitting in a Texas-sized easy chair, readin’ about advent, while Charlie is playing with the devil’s toys – LEGO: “Hey, Ellen, do you think I should amp up my recovery? They signed Ohtani for $700 millie!”
Ellen, busily cutting out quilting materials with her Texas-sized scissors: “No, Clayton, they want to win. Just sit where you are.”
KamKid
I understand the concept of present day value in this scenario. So my question is then why aren’t all CBT calculations for multi year contracts based on present day value? I’m looking at Xander Bogaerts’ 11/$280m contract that pays him equally throughout the 11 years at $25.5ish m a year with matching CBT calculations. Shouldn’t his ’23 CBT hit reflect the fact that the $25m he’s earning in future years is worth less than that $25m in present day value and therefore be a lower AAV? Why is it that the conversion of future value to present day value only applies to the deferrals and not all future salaries?
Persi W
That’s a fantastic question that I was wondering myself. Are we sure that they don’t take that into the calculations? Most CBT numbers we look at are estimates, but the real calculations are complex and nobody knows the totals for sure until December 2 each year.
KamKid
I wondered that which is why I looked at Bogaerts as an example of a long contract in the early years still. It should be noticeable even in estimate on that size of contract and that’s not reflected on the contract tracker I looked it up under (Spotrac).
Persi W
Might be too complicated of math for a contract tracker like that. I think the official league computations are more complicated. But I would love to know for sure. We just need to get MLB to open up its books!
mheinken
It’s not strictly present day value. In this case, he has deferred 68 million for ten years, ten times. So they use the calculation to figure out the value in the year he would play moreso than in present day.
filihok
KK
“why aren’t all CBT calculations for multi year contracts based on present day value?”
Because the CBT is a tool to restrict player salaries
Using PV would decrease the value of contracts, allowing teams to pay more to players.
That’s why
I agree that the CBT value should be based off of PV. For all contracts – including deferred ones
ntlee
I think the big issue is how the contract was announced, What if this was presented as Ohtani signing for $460M over 10 years (a $46M AAV is right in line with the $44M predicted by MLBTR), and Ohtani elected to defer $68M per year at X% which will bring the total amount to $700M when the payments end in 2043.
I don’t know what was presented to MLB in the contract but someone backed out the math and said that deferring that money at an agreed upon percentage and you get $46M CBT hit. I would have to imagine that deferral percentage would be defined in the CBA so you can’t say defer something at a 1000% rate for a really low CBT hit.
Edit: Hopefully someone with mad financial chops can figure out at what percentage Ohtani would have deferred $46M per year to get to his total amount.
Persi W
Thank you, I’ve been waiting for someone to present it this way. Everyone is looking at it backwards because of the way it was announced. Obviously they wanted the shock value of the $700M number before revealing the details that it is actually (in a way) a more realistic $460M contract.
Clayton Russell
I don’t have mad math chops, but it’s roughly 5% per year which makes me think it’s tied to interest rather than inflation. If you set aside the 2 million he’s getting in the year he plays, the other 44 million gaining 5% per year comes out to right around 68 million after 10 years. Then you add back in the original 2 and you have 70 million per year.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Based on payouts ($2mm/yr first 10 yrs and $68mm/yr next 10 yrs), the implied discount rate to get to the $460mm present value over 10 yrs, or $46mm/yr of CBT is 2.8%. This sounds to me a lot like an inflation type of rate. Scherzer’s contract of 7 yrs for $210mm was actually $15mm per year for 14 years, or 50% deferral. The CBT was about $26.4mm/yr on a present value of approximately $185mm. The assumed discount rate was 1.7%. Again, sounds a lot like some type of inflation rate was used. Recall that inflation today is higher than in 2015 when Scherzer signed that contract.
AndyMeyer
Shohei Bonilla
BaseballisLife
The reports of it reducing his CBT hit are incorrect.
The one reporter even got the relevant section in the CBA wrong.
But there will never be a follow up article admitting they are wrong. The sportswriters today are really bad. Its become all clickbait. No substance.
HBRC1987
Ohtani won’t even see that money
gardyparty
The worst part is, these sites are doing RECORD numbers on this ridiculous misinformation. I would call it scary if it weren’t old hat at this point.
Bosox2013
Honestly what I find most frustrating is that the Dodgers are playing chess and the rest of the league is playing checkers. Sure they have money but they also tend to spend it well. This whole Ohtani thing was a perfectly executed plan. It’s just sucks that the rest of the league can’t catch on.
Bill Bertolotti
How is this interest-free or not subject to being in a fund or something? $680 million is just paper over the next ten years to the Dodgers. They dont have to commit the money now. And from Shohei’s perspective, he cant invest it on his own and make a conservative 6% return…which would make him anywhere from $45-65m MORE every year for 10 years…Makes ZERO sense regardless if its within the CBA rules and ‘counts’ $46m against their payroll…
CKinSTL
I read somewhere that the Dodgers are required to put $44 million per year in an escrow account. I’m not sure if that is simply per the agreement with Ohtani or a league rule requiring them to do so.
If true, they’ll have an annual out-of-pocket of $46 million.
MarlinsFanBase
Bobby Bonilla is somewhere saying, “Ah, Shohei….I started a trend. I did good. I did good.” Then Bobby Bo kisses his 1997 Marlins World Series Championship ring, then, as he’s polishing it, he says, “I’ll have my yacht captain sail me over to Miami to see how many free meals I can get today with this baby.”
Teamspirit
Shohei could have signed anywhere with this deal. He must really have hated playing for the Angels.
filihok
Venn Diagram: people who think long-term deals cripple teams because they are overpaying old players who don’t produce and people who think the Dodgers paying Ohtani 97% of his contract after he’s done playing for them is the Dodgers taking advantage of the system
Steve12345
His unicorn days are over.
hiflew
So can fans just decide to pay $2 for their season tickets and pay the rest with no interest in 2034?
bloomquist4hof
I dont ubderstand why there’s so much outrage over this. Its allowed by the league in clear terms. Both sides made a huge risk/reward decision IMO. Im sure with the backlash over this it eventually gets addressed in a future CBA, but they’ll just limit how much can be deferred and the CBT will still be based on NPV. This is not a tax dodge as much as payroll shenanigans and really doesn’t seem as egregious as some here seem to think it is. The flip side is the Dodgers will eventually be paying him alot of money after he’s out of baseball and for him, there’s plenty of risk too.
sfjackcoke
While Ohtani will receive the $68M annually in the 10yrs after his contract expires, the Dodgers will need to fund those future obligation each year and if they do not it would then go on their accounting books as debt.
MLB has debt guidelines all their teams must follow, not only how much you use to buy a team but how much you use in operations. As you might recall the prior LAD owner heavily indebted the team which ultimately forced a sale. MLB under NO circumstances wants a team to land in bankruptcy. The last team to do so was the Orioles which Peter Angelos bought out of the bankruptcy courts and MLB didn’t get their normal say in the process to the best of my knowledge.
With the magic of compound interest the Dodgers can fund in 2024, Ohtani’s 2034 $68M payment by putting $44M in an account earning ~5% interest and in 10yrs, there’s $68M in the account.
By comparison the Washington Nationals had all those deferred contracts for their stars as they lacked the cash flow due to their broadcast disputes with the Orioles, AKA they took on debt to sign those deals. At the time interest rates were ~ 0% so there was no benefit to fund anyways. My guess is when rates started ticking up, they probably started funding Max and whomever else had a deferral. Plus they did get a recent settlement on one of their disputes with the Orioles.
Dock_Elvis
No interest? Wow. That’s a ridiculous financial punt given the impact that salary would have invested over that time.
Doral Silverthorn
ban everything that teams use to make their teams better:
1) Ban deferments
2) Ban analytics
3) Ban hitters who walk a lot
4) Ban stadiums which play to teams strengths
or just quit whining
Steve(shs22)
The rich get richer.
Bad look for baseball.
bootsday29
If Charlie Finley had done this contract it would have been voided by MLB. Only the Dodgers could get away with this.
Rightout
The Dodgers have no pitching…so don’t worry they won’t win a championship in the next few years and when Ohtani gets ready for his 3rd Tommy John surgery they won’t then either.. But they will have plenty of 95-100 win seasons and losing in the playoffs