The Pirates announced this morning that they’ve placed left-hander Marco Gonzales on the 15-day injured list with a forearm strain. Right-hander Ryder Ryan was recalled in the corresponding move.
It’s an unfortunate turn of events for Pittsburgh, as the club has gotten off to a hot start this season with a 10-5 record that puts them just one game back of the Brewers in the NL Central. Much of that success has been attributable to Gonzales, who has posted a sterling 2.65 ERA and 3.60 FIP through three starts this season, including quality starts against tough offenses in Baltimore and Philadelphia. Gonzales’s success has helped to mask the struggles of staff ace Mitch Keller, who has allowed 12 runs (ten earned) in his 17 innings of work to this point in the season.
Gonzales’s strong start to the 2024 season comes as something of a surprise. While he posted three consecutive seasons with a sub-4.00 ERA from 2019 to 2021 with the Mariners, he’s struggled badly with injuries and ineffectiveness in recent years with a 4.36 ERA and 4.89 FIP across 42 starts from 2022-23 before his 2023 campaign was halted by surgery to repair a nerve issue in his forearm. This offseason, Gonzales was traded twice in the span of two days, first being shipped from Seattle to Atlanta in the deal that brought Jarred Kelenic to the Braves before immediately being flipped to the Pirates in exchange for a player to be named later or cash.
Given the minimal acquisition cost for the Pittsburgh, the trade was already looking like a clear success just three starts into Gonzales’s tenure as a Pirate. That could certainly still be the case, but without many details regarding the specifics of Gonzales’s injury or his timeline for return, it’s impossible to know just how long the Pirates will be without the lefty. Any forearm issues are always concerning for a pitcher, though that’s perhaps especially true of Gonzales given the forearm problem that ended his 2023 season and ultimately required surgery.
With Johan Oviedo set to miss the 2024 campaign and Gonzales now potentially facing a significant absence of his own, the Pirates will have to look to their pitching depth to fill out the club’s rotation behind Keller, Martin Perez, Jared Jones, and Bailey Falter. The obvious choice for that role would be 2023 first overall pick Paul Skenes, though the league’s consensus top pitching prospect has recorded just one out in the fourth inning and maxed out at 64 pitches to this point in the season, suggesting he made need time to build up to five-plus innings of work before joining the big league club even if Pittsburgh decides to promote their flamethrowing phenom.
Barring the club deciding to promote Skenes, they have plenty of other options at the Triple-A level to replace Gonzales. Perhaps the cleanest choice would be right-hander Quinn Priester, who is already on the club’s 40-man roster and and made eight starts for the club last year. Another option would be veteran righty Domingo German, who signed a minor league deal with the club this winter after many years as a quality back-of-the-rotation arm with the Yankees.
In the meantime, the Pirates have called up Ryan, who turns 29 next month. The right-hander signed with the club on a minor league deal this past winter after making a one-inning cameo with the Mariners last year for his big league debut. Ryan ultimately made the club’s Opening Day roster but struggled in his first extended look at the major league level, surrendering four runs on six hits and two walks despite a solid 26.1% strikeout rate across his four appearances. Ryan will now get another look with the big league club, adding depth to the club’s bullpen alongside the likes of Colin Holderman and Hunter Stratton.
That’s a shame, Gonzo has been really looking great.
Shiver me timbers. Time to walk the plank, Marco Polo.
When did said injury happen? He seemed fine yesterday.
Probably felt something after the game or early this morning and got himself checked out as soon as he could. MLB team doctor’s offices aren’t like our local clinics. They work faster because there aren’t like 20 other patients with toothaches and coughs in line ahead of a player.
Throwing too many sinkers & cutters compared to last year. Plus, his spin rate is lower compared to last year. Needs more spin to be less injury prone.
/s
Marco must cut back on the number of 98 mph fastballs he hurls.
There have been numerous junk ball pitchers in baseball history who didn’t have 98 mph fastballs and were very successful
You think Warren Spahn who won 363 games had one or Cy Young who won 511 games?
Ever heard of Greg Maddox? He didn’t either
How has German done in minors so far?
German hasn’t thrown a single pitch in the minor leagues yet. Idk where he’s been.
Drinking?
They should put Shelton on the plank with his eyes covered, he’s undoubtedly the worst manager in baseball and take Haines with him
Yesterday he allowed Suwinski and Tallez to bat against left handed pitchers with the game on the line and with 4 right handed hitters on the bench
Both Rowdy and Jack struck out twice against the lefties
Lastly, these hitters still don’t know how to protect the plate and consistently get called third strikes against them
Wondered that myself!? Terrible.
Jack .357 ba vs lhp. I know how you love sss so there ya go.
Next you’ll be defending Cruz’ 25 strikeouts in 15 games, 4 alone just today, because he hit a home run yesterday, Dream
Complete baloney. Glad Jack homered today but after you post a stat like this I have to wonder if you even watch the games
I do. Jack looks good and the results should keep coming. Probably hopefully in reverse.
Yeah, he looked so good on Saturday, with 2 players in scoring position, he struck out looking
Granted that was only one game, but prior to his grand slam yesterday, Jack only had 3 runs batted in
Pathetic for a clean up hitter
I don’t expect him to hit home runs every game but putting the ball in play is essential in scoring runs
Dream, always appreciate your insights but here, I don’t agree. Looks like he made no adaptations in the off season whatsoever
He was good platoon last year. If that’s all he ever is then that’s fine. SSS but he is improved in some areas. Crushing lefties when he hits the ball. Drastically cut down on k’s vs rhp. If he keeps it up and finds a happy medium between the 2 Jacks he will move good everyday player.
The man…..Shelton is in over his head in managing. He’s a blight on a possible great season by the buccos. His managing is winning games, his mis managing is losing games. He doesn’t pick his lineup out of a hat, he picks it out of his behind.
Hard to believe that there isn’t a better pitcher available to bring up than this never has been
He was scored on in every game he played in prior to his recent demotion
Chances are he won’t see more than one inning. Just a placeholder and emergency arm until Marco’s spot in the rotation is up again.
Doesn’t Marco have to stay on the IL for 15 days?
The way this offense is playing, giving up even just one run could cost us the game
And Shelton said that he will likely use the same technique as last year when relievers will start a game
He didn’t say that He said that may be an option. I am guessing either Priester or Lauer get the 5th spot if not Ortiz
Agreed. The kid isn’t coming up to start. Ortiz is the natural choice right now
20 some inch movement sinker. 2.12 fip. Elite ground ball rate. Elite hard hit rate. He’s been great. Only sent down because he had options.
Yeah, his giving up 4 runs in 6 innings this year makes him exceptional, I get it, Dream
He has looked like a MLB pitcher all spring. Only fans care about the runs. Team is very pleased and confident with him.
Yeah as a fan I care about pitchers giving up runs when our offense isn’t producing
Do you proofread your opinions before posting them?
Ryan pitched better than the boxcar stats indicate in his first few appearances. He also looked very good today. I think he’s a really solid reliever with an elite pitch (his sinker). He’s a nice find by Cherington.
The Pirates also don’t need a fifth starter for 9 days, so it’s smart to just go with a larger bullpen in the meantime. They’ll make a move based on the severity of Marco’s injury. If it turns out he just needs to miss one start, they’ll probably just use Fleming, Ortiz, and Contreras to piggy back a start. If he’s going to miss more time they’ll probably bring up Lauer or Priester and send down a reliever.
Finally, someone who understands and doesn’t belly ache every move before thinking.
I have been a Buc fan since 1966 and a season ticket holder for 30 years
If I want to “ belly ache “, I have earned that privilege
How much money have you spent attending Pirate home games during your lifetime?
It’s good to hear you know who I was talking about. Yeah, I’ve read multiple time how long you’ve been a fan. Congratulations on your wasted time and money. You’re a miserable fan. Maybe you should take a break or find another hobby. Baseballs supposed to be fun and enjoyable. I too get frustrated when they strike out with a runner on third with less a two out. Yeah, I get pissed when Shelton doesn’t take advantage of a righty/lefty matchup but I don’t run to this site and type the same thing over and over again. Maybe you should get one of those sponge bricks you can throw at the TV. They are 11-5, it’s early anything can happen. Enjoy the process!
I never get the impression that TheMan3 is chewing on a towel as he watches games, truth. In the modern age, perhaps the idea of discussing and dissecting games, players etc is a relic but it goes back to our dad’s generations and carried through with us
In reality, I don’t think TheMan3 is any more a “miserable fan” than DreamGM wears rose colored glasses in assessing every front office move and the talent level of assorted players
I’ve always viewed it as just talk. To me, that’s part of the fun you talked about above.
Tired Dude- I’m all for fun. I’d love to find a forum where subjects can be discussed. Things like “what happens to the catching situation when Grandel comes back?” “Have we seen enough of Joey Bart to keep him long term?” “In a roster jam will Hank get sent to the minors?”“Other than for Fanfare why is Cutch on this team.” “When a 40 man roster spot is needed who are the five most expendable?” “Who comes up first Gonzales or Perugio?” I used to find answers to these kinds of questions years ago on Buc’s Dougout, but that site went to hell when Charlie left. I rarely visit there anymore.
maybe you should just allow fans to be critical of their teams without coming across as rude and obnoxious
Being a devout fan, there isn’t another venue that allows me to post my opinions. Perhaps you can direct me to one, but if you can’t and don’t like my comments, use your mute button
It won’t hurt my feelings
Cutch is on this team because he’s a fan favorite and puts people in the stands
Nutting is a businessman first and foremost, attendance puts money in his wallet
You may not agree with this conclusion but it’s the truth
Otherwise, and while you didn’t address your question to me, it’s my belief that when Grandal returns from the IL and if Davis continues to struggle at the plate, he should be sent down to Indy
Man- Have you tried Bucs Dugout or Bucs On Deck? Both have a decent forum to discuss the Pirates. You can have a conversation with other Pirate fans as the game goes on and react to every stupid strikeout and dumb managers decision.
Watched Davis in spring training and had high hopes for him. To me at least, I thought the move to RF last year messed with the kid’s head. I mean, no catching during the *entire* time he was up? Even in mop-ups?
But jeez, between his glove position with balls in the dirt and really taking a lot of strikes at bat, I’m beginning to wonder.
I have similar hopes for Triolo but it’s a slow process. The thing about Peguero and Gonzales is that they have streaks but quickly look lost
Maybe it doesn’t matter and Termarr is going to supplant everyone down there anyway
And given Shelton’s usage of Cutch (the O’s series was a complete mystery) I’ve asked myself the same question. I do think he’s veteran leadership and a Pittsburgh guy now, but to me Shelton falls asleep in using him when he really should be grabbing a bat
You’re right. It’s all fun.
thanks just the same, I like it here
Conversely, truth, TheMan3 and I will usually use the last/latest Pirates thread here to discuss the current game
Man- I gave you two sites to express yourself. It wasn’t meant as an insult. Lots of fans there say the same things you do. Have you visited either one? I think it’s more of the interaction you’re looking for than here at MLB Trade Rumors. Just my opinion. Again enjoy and Let’s go Bucs!
Taking strikes is taught to the players by Shelton and Haines, with the intention of getting into their bullpen earlier. Only a few players will see a first pitch thrown that they will swing at.
This philosophy works at times but when the player is still young and without alot of major league experience, such as Triolo and Davis, this concept can be problematic
The Dugout doesn’t have a whole lot of interaction going on with posts. I kind of like. Bucs on Deck but gee, truth, no obnoxious Yankees fans interjecting their thoughts kind of makes it a downer, no?
I have visited those you mentioned and yet I still enjoy this one better
@tiredolderdude, if you are listening to the game, Greg Brown said that the Bucs are leading the league in called third strikes as Connor Joe added to that total in the second inning
Hauser is historically not a high strikeout pitcher yet already has 3 in 2 innings of work
and staying on this thread, Cruz leads the team with 26 ks
Not that I believe he will keep up this pace, but over a 162 game season, he would k 311 times
I’m probably not going to make another comment tonight so Truth should be happy
If nothing else, maybe truth understands why Cutch is on the team
And so far, Dream was right about this pitcher. A+ signing
And as usual, I put the hex on him
All sites are great and the same. Fans are supposed to overreact and say things that don’t make sense. How many fans worked in baseball or were good players? All they know is what their father etc taught them, what sportswriters tell them or what they heard from other fans. Most teams don’t know enough. How are fans supposed to.
Lil bad luck. No idea how Joe did that spike throw. If it was a playoff game Perez would had a shorter leash. Just trying to get innings since he had a solid pitch count.
Perez’ good outing was wasted because our offense could only muster 3 hits to go along with 10 strikeouts
Cruz’ 3 brings his season total to 28 and in only 17 games
Perhaps he shouldn’t be batting lead off.
Is anyone else concerned about the lack of contact and double digit strikeouts that seem to happen every game?
Yes. And I’m more than a little concerned about the “superstar dual threat” closers they have who are both stinking up the place
Interesting take here.
Played the game. Coached the game. Managed the game. Can thank my dad for taking me to Forbes Field. The rest is history
Disagree with the tone of your posting here, my friend
The basics of the game are as they were 80 years ago, the players just throw harder, are bigger and faster
You win games the same way
You lose them the same way
What’s changed is the perceptions that are derived from the bombardment of analytics and statistics.
They’ve led managers to making stupid decisions time and again, whether it’s game strategies or personnel
To that point, give me a Sparky Anderson, or Earl Weaver, or Lasorda or Billy Martin and give them an average team
Over one season, they’ll beat ANY current manager with a comparable or better team every time.
Chapman has been a huge disappointment as has been Rowdy
Other than his one homer, he doesn’t have another extra base hit
And Davis continues to struggle at the plate
It’s hard to fathom how every player can be in an offensive slump at the same time but this happened last year too so it’s nothing new with this team
Exactly. And it’s why I have a hard time trusting the start will suddenly make them a contender. Good teams win in different ways. It’s not 90 wins of pitching or 90 of hitting
Their 20-8 start was largely because of pitching. Look at the box scores. Few hits. Fewer runs
Hope that pitchers stay healthy and keep them in the hunt this year but I’m not betting on it
Like clockwork, I am in complete agreement with you, @tiredolderdude
Good teams do find ways to win and it’s becoming questionable whether they are s good team.
Their starting pitchers have been better than advertised and basically keep us in games but when an offense doesn’t do its share and produce, it won’t be long before management makes excuses and talking about next year
You make it sound like the Pirates are the Sox with 34 runs. Data is your friend. But sure just ignore the facts in a weak attempt to spin your false narratives. Pirates have scored 90 runs. 7th best in baseball. 4th best is 94 runs. Shelton Haines the players must not be nearly as awful as fans say they are. 8th best team batting average. 2nd lowest team payroll. Give Shelton Betts Ohtani Smith Freeman and lets see what he can do. Taylor Tellez Joe Olivares Bart no other team thought they were worth giving a garbage prospect for or paying 4 million 1 year deal. I hate to ruin your day but sometimes you guys need a hard dose of reality. 2nd lowest payroll. Lineup of misfit toys that no other team wanted. No super stars, mvps, yearly all stars. Just 1 good Reynolds, 1 above average Hayes and a bunch of scraps Cherington slopped together. 7th most runs scored in baseball. Pretty impressive with such awful coaching. And maybe they are awful. I am not a hitting instructor. But now is a horrible time to trash them. 1 more time in case it hasn’t sunk in. 7th most runs in baseball.
Tellez .297 BA. .395 OBP. He’s been nothing short of fantastic. A++++++++++
8th best BA in mlb so not concerned about lack of contact. Not concerned about strike outs either. #1 culprit is Cutch. Poor starts is normal for him. Maybe pressing for 300. He will either figure it out or his playing time can decrease. Davis will figure it out or go to AAA. Cruz Suwinski look to always ve high k guys. The abundance of lhp made it worse. Taylor is a insane k rate guy. Strike outs could improve but will always be high this year and likely following years.
Not concerned about closers at all. Bednar issues was control. Not stuff. Shouldn’t have been closing until he blew off the rust from missing spring training. Chapman got a C from me instead of the mostly A+ grades this year. His stuff is fine as last year. Control was much better until recently. It made him appear much better than what he is if you haven’t seen him pitch in a while. What you have seen recently is what was expected from Chapman. He’s going to walk a lot of guys and sometimes it will cost you runs.
A lot of salient points, as usual
As stated earlier, Shelton is an average manager in this era. I watch myriad games and have the same questions where strategy is concerned. He’s not Herzog (RIP), Sparky, Earl, Tommy or even Billy. No one is
They’re scoring more than at this time last year. That’s a positive, of course.
The problem with your rendering of Suwinski, Cruz and Davis takes into account them “figuring it out”. Stargell was a high K guy as was Parker. The difference was that between their homers, they drove in a helluva lot of runs, too.
Your thoughts on Cutch are accurate, too. But he’s in the twilight of his career and when he’s not the DH—which just isn’t suited for many players—he’s riding the pine a great deal
As for Tellez, the problem comes in the form of last season. Just who he is as a hitter remains to be seen
My “problem” with the Pirates isn’t entwined in some “false narrative” but rather, is reflective of their player personnel department system-wide
There are things which are irksome that make you shake your head, from baserunning to situational hitting to understanding counts, the strike zone and what a given opposing pitcher is doing out there
For the record, I’m not “ trashing” anyone but instead pointing to red flags that again point to hopes that the starting pitching holds out
* I watch myriad games not involving the Pirates
Shelton is a weak hey lets not sugar coat it he’s a awful strategist. When I said fans shouldn’t know that much about the inner workings of baseball I should have added this. Shelton has played the game and coached in every role. Unfortunately that can’t overcome genetics. To truly excell you have to have high intelligence. And even then to be elite you need to be a critical thinker. Shelton isn’t that. It’s less than 1 percent of the population. As a 1 percenter myself who only hires 1 percenters I am confident in saying Shelton is not. Good thing most managers aren’t. I think Shelton is a good leader for the team though and that matters more.
Suwinski I am most confident in. He is already good. If he doesn’t improve he is good.
Cruz is fine as well. He might only be a everyday player and not a mvp.
Davis has the skill to be a everyday player. Should work out. Probably won’t meet his expectations. Most players don’t.
I would say coaching is awful but base running, rules, sliding, calling for a fly ball are all things that should be learned well before mlb level. I would say these players are uncoachable. Literally baseball 101 stuff.
It’s a epidemic in baseball. Many of the Pirates players are from other teams. If they don’t know by now after an entire life of instruction what can you do. Giants might be one of the better teams as Bart Reynolds seem to be more fundamentally sound.
Cutch needs to be monitored. When it’s over it can be over fast. He keeps getting a smaller bat. Eventually you can’t go any smaller. With so many throwing high 90s he could be in trouble. Philly wanted him to dh after knee surgery and he was awful. Milwaukee as well and awful. He was great last year. So I am going with father time if he can’t do it. With his approach I think he will be alright. Not as good as last year but average enough.
Well, it’s epidemic in all sports now, really. Fundamentals are given short shrift and players are fast tracked, especially if they are potentially big offensive producers.
So you’re right, again. And it drives purists and old timers insane
But given all that, it’s really no wonder managers and coaches are what they are these days, no?
Shelton provides leadership. It’s not so much any emphasis on strategy or fundamentals or improving mechanics. He’d be a wonderful college hoops coach with this in mind
as these guys are recruiters and leaders, first and foremost. Glorified street ball with some old guys acting as cheerleaders on the sidelines, and making millions along the way
But I digress
Loved the 1% note.
Are you striving to be part of the 1 percent? Happy where you are? Are you in the 3 percent at least? I think the majority of people are capable of being in the 3 percent. Not a vast majority though. And most won’t ever be. But they have the potential. World is in trouble. You have a open mind and a lil sense of humor so you are better off than most.
On the contrary, my friend. I have a great sense of humor. As far as the 1%, intellectually speaking, I’ll leave that assessment to you
I’d much rather be in the financial 1% but just how many Powerballs or MegaMillions can I play?
I don’t need a dose of reality, Dream, as I am well aware of how this team was structured. Low payroll, young players, and a mixture of cost effective veterans
The culprit as you called it, isn’t Cutch with the most Ks (17), it’s Cruz with 27..
And Ks matter because putting a ball in play isn’t an automatic out like a strike out is
My point earlier was that I expected more out of some of these players, so excuse me for showing my frustration
7Forget the lottery and check out those pirates world series odds. It’s easy to determine your percentile. If you are a Republican or Democrat forget about it. You ain’t sniffing that 1 percent 3 percent or even 10 percent. Constitutionalist or Libertarian you make the 3 percent. If you realize 1 vote doesn’t matter and I will be just fine with whatever awful old guy is picked you are 1 percent. If you don’t buy Toyotas you aren’t in the 1 or 3 percent. Mazda or Ford if you really need a truck then 10 or maybe 5 percent.
Those are good guidelines. But if you politically line yourself with whoever benefits you or so wealthy you aren’t keeping a car past 100k miles more detail is needed. Political party and vehicle is a great way to figure people out though.
Intelligence and financial 1 percent is a lonely place. Can only have close relationships with fellow 1 percenters. Most of time at least.
Or you can always ask if the Joe Suwinski platoon is all star.
Everyone is performing exactly as I projected or better.
Education and intelligence have a great deal to do with today’s political landscape, to be truthful. So does common sense. PT Barnum once said, “There’s a sucker born every minute”.
Like you, he was seemingly clairvoyant
And per MLBTR’s wishes, I’ll stop there
I’m actually fine with being wherever I am on the intelligence scale. I was over-educated but hey, it means I’m a wizard at Trivial Pursuit
As for close relationships, mine seem to be a close knit group of deer, groundhogs and an occasional coyote out on the back 40
Lastly, I’m willing to come out of retirement if you’re hiring. My salary requirements are negotiable
Did you project the third base coach to forget to yell to Joe that Reynolds hit ball was trapped essentially making it a single?
I own a 2020 F-150 and a 2012 Mustang GT convertible. The Mustang only has 11k original miles on it and is garage kept
I’m certainly not in the company of the 1%, though I did choose a profession after serving in the military and attending college that allowed me to make a comfortable living
And I was wrong, with his latest called third strike,, Cruz now has 30. Yoi aren’t going to score many runs if you don’t get on base
Why he’s even playing against a lefty is yet another ridiculous decision by Shelton, especially considering he’s only 2 for 27 against left handed pitchers
I have but one a few more comments and I’m finished for the night
Joe has a tendency of checking his swing in almost every close pitch. Being aggressive is one thing, being stupid about it is another
I get why Shelton changed up the lineup, but resting one of your hottest hitters in Hayes makes no sense, especially when your worst hitter against lefties ( Cruz) is in the lineup
Triolo isn’t consistent enough to be batting 3rd and Henry Davis put a nice swing on his single
They said in the pregame show that Cruz was out of the original lineup but Hayes was experiencing some back spasms. So Trillo went to 3rd and so on.
Yeah, agreed. And we’re quickly heading to the closer portion of our program. You know, the portion Dream isn’t concerned about
How refreshing Didn’t have to wait for the closer to blow up tonight. And who knew they’d be facing Seaver-Koosman-Gentry-Ryan in NY
11K’s tonight. And it’s only the 8th
Please quit telling me these guys have progressed
I agree that is unacceptable. But if you look at the box score the Mets have strikeout 10 times. Unfortunately that’s how the game is currently played. There’s no Tim Foli’s in MLB anymore.
You know, I didn’t realize that
Looked over box scores just now of games in late innings. Each team had 9 or more strikeouts
Those aren’t bad. According to my car guy the mustang was pretty reliable and Ford is the best performance reliability combination. Toyota trucks will run forever but always outdated performance wise.
You can’t platoon everyone. You hate to give up on raw potential like Cruz. He has shown glimpses of being a full time player.
Health is only thing that matters. I am not close to 1 percent. But I make a living doing things I enjoy so it’s like a paid hobby. I am a Nutting level cheapskate so more $ wouldn’t do anything for me.
They played Hayes too much. More rest is what he needed. Hope it’s not multiple games problem.
20 percent strike out rate is considered great. Many are closer to 30 with some being over that. Front offices are seeing the value of better contact though so it may improve or won’t get worse at the least.
Pirates will k more than most. So many lefties and platoons. I think they were 27th or so last I looked. Probably won’t improve much.
I like no politics talk sites. What 98 99 percent of people are going to vote the same they did 3 years ago. Nothing can happen that will make them change their mind. I never donate $. No amount of advertising or campaigning is going to make a difference. I never seen a discussion that changed anyone’s mind.
This country and world has changed so much the last decade. It’s a people problem. Could be all part of the plan.
I will keep you in mind. No plans for expansion. You lost me though when you said salary.
That’s great that you’re wealthy or close to it but I have learned that those who brag about the size of their financial success aren’t worthy of your attention because they’re too hung up on status
That all said, I don’t care what the average of strikeouts are within the league, when your team only musters 5 hits and 1 run, those double digit strikeouts make it look even worse
I didn’t realize I was bragging about my wealth. I said I am not close to being in the one percent. 1 percent I said I was part of was the 1 percent * I just threw out a number I have no idea what it is or how accurate that number is I think I heard 1 percent before * of people who are critical thinkers. Not bragging about that either. I did nothing that I know of to become one. I was classically educated so maybe I didn’t get brainwashed in public schools or something. I would love nothing more than to brag about my wit, my charm, my handsome good looks, my incredible love making skills but it just random luck of the draw genetics.
I just now looked up 1 percent wealth wise and the numbers are a lot lower than I thought. Not impressed. I mean it’s a heck of a good living but I always thought of 1 percent as CEO actors musicians athletes tech company owners etc. According to google search it’s a household income of 500 and some grand and or net worth of 5 million and some. If you get in a demand field and find a spouse who did the same you aren’t too far off. If you are good with $ 5 6 million isn’t hard either. Reminds me as a kid a millionaire sounded like wow! Then you realize if you have a 401k and pay off your mortgage you are a millionaire.
I’m not much of bragger. However when YourDreamGM takes over and my thumbs are nothing but a vessel for them to communicate all bets are off. They will probably tell how you how fantastic they are in scouting and evaluation. And they just might be right. You can’t bat 1000 but they are as close as anyone I ever seen. I remember the doubt and downright laughter when they said things like Perez A+++++++ or best free agent in baseball. I don’t see laughter no more.
I don’t like strike outs. But only stat that matters is wins. To get wins you need runs. I don’t care how you get the runs. If Cruz Suwinski etc hit 40 hrs they can strike out 200 times. But if it’s only 20 hrs it’s a problem. Unless they are walking or stealing a ton of bases etc. A perfect or near perfect player is going to cost you previously 30 million. Now it’s more like 40 million. Pirates can’t give out 300 400 500 600 700 million contracts. Even I in all my greatest couldn’t draft and trade for enough perfect players to fill an entire team. So you find guys who do somethings well. Trust me I know it’s not what anyone wants to hear. I remember how well my Joe Suwinski All Star platoon went over with you guys lol.
I know you don’t like strikeouts and that the only stat that matters is winning but if hitters can get on base and k instead the wins won’t happen
Yes they are a low payroll team and they can’t afford to be giving out multiple year massive contracts to one player but these players look lost at the plate.
They swing at pitches nowhere close to the plate then stand frozen when a ball is in the strike zone
I will admit that you were right about platooning Jack. If only they could find a suitable platoon situation for other players that might be as successful
I want this team to win or at least give their absolute best in trying but there’s too many holes in the lineup for that to happen
It’s worth repeating, how can every player be mired in a slump all at the same time?
It’s either the lack of talent which I don’t believe, or the coaching staff which I do believe is what is lacking
Strikeouts aside on both the Mets and Bucs, only mustering 5 hits, 1 for extra bases and 1 run, the abundance of ks matter
With several players’ speed someone’s could have tried laying down a bunt and taken a chance to have caught one of the Met infielders off guard but Shelton never thinks about playing small ball
Shelter is without a doubt the worst manager in baseball
Well, the overall take-away from this series should be that maybe the Pirates really aren’t much different than what we saw last season
Because truthfully, they’re not
I’ll agree about starting pitching so far, a nice core of young players with perhaps help coming,
But we’re discussing the same old bugaboos with this team and now, we’re explaining it away in the old, “well, everyone is striking out across MLB” idea
Yeah. I get it. Nice
And I know pitchers still have a bit of an upper hand at this time of year. But what we’re seeing is just more of the same. The same guys who are consistent, the same who are inconsistent
When Bob Walk says they have a strikeout problem it’s probably true and true to form they’ve already struck out twice
Different players from last year but with the same results. Low scoring, minimal hits and a ton of strikeouts. On occasion they will have a breakout game but they are few and far between
Just enough to get the fans excited before returning to how they are playing now
You guys are going to love this. Actually more like hate because it goes against what you believe about strike outs.
In 2023 the team with the most strike outs in all of baseball won their division! Say what? It’s true.
Here’s a even better one. Remember how bad the 2022 Pirates were? Obviously you do. They stuck out the 3rd most times in baseball. The team ahead of them for 2nd most strike outs in baseball was the 101 win Braves! Remember how good that team was?
2024 pirates 3rd most strike outs in baseball. 2024 pirates 2nd most walks in baseball.
To win baseball games you need to understand how to win baseball games.
2023 teams with most walks.
1 Padres
2 Dodgers
3 Rangers
4 Twins
5 Brewers
All had winning records. 4 made playoffs. 3 won their division. 1 won world series.
Tiredolderdude “really interesting data” “huh” “guess you can strike out a lot and still win games”
Theman3 “strike outs still bad” “Shelton needs fired” “im going to put on my loin cloth and go club an animal for dinner”
I just love having debates with folks who’ve seen an opening run and then equate it to the team being a real contender
Even in the central, this group is a year off. At least.
I said this last year and will repeat: I’m ok with a .500 team that leaves it all out there. But watching these guys game in and game out and it’s kind of apparent that few here should get their hopes up for anything more
Starting pitching in the era of 5-inning lines can only get you so far.
But I imagine those teams you listed scored more runs than the Bucs did in each of those seasons
If you score alot of runs the strikeouts won’t matter and this team doesn’t score alot of runs
2022 team walk leaders. Yankees dodgers mariners brewers padres. All winning records 4 made playoffs. So “if” pirates finish year at their current number 2 there is a strong chance they make the playoffs.
2024 pirates 11th most runs in baseball. Dbacks 2023 14th most runs. Brewers 17th.
Strike outs aren’t a good thing but if you can do something else well you can still win games. But yeah if you strike out without walking or hitting home runs you are in trouble.
Shelton again shows his contempt for being a major league manager by lifting Falter after having thrown only 73 pitches through 5 innings and giving up only 2 runs
I truly believe he makes decisions from pulling ideas from his crystal ball so instead of being down 2 runs we’re now down 5 runs
It’s an embarrassing time to be a Pirate fan which is basically how I have felt for the last few years
Embrace the strike outs or turn off the tv until 2030. With Cruz Suwinski Davis Peguero Gonzales even TJ coming soon. This team is going to strike out a ton. Doubt any coach could get these guys to have a low strike out rate. Maybe 1 guy figures it out if your lucky. Pirates could be in top 10 strike outs every year.
I appreciate your input and knowledge Dream but this current team is inadequate as a competitive baseball team
Mets pitching has held them to 3 hits, 5 hits and so far 6 hits
We haven’t scored more than 3 runs in this current series and are probably unlikely to
And it’s not like we are facing the reincarnation of Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver and Bob Gibson either .
They look bad right now in every area but starting pitching and they pull those at 5 innings. I believe in work limits. Even pitch limits. But innings limits are stupid. Major blow to my opinion of Cherington.
Pulling the previous pitcher for Bednar was yet another boneheaded move by Shelton
And Davis might have tagged the runner out at home had he left his glove on the ground instead of lifting it
He’s also been a disappointment having not thrown out any runners trying to steal and his offense has regressed from last year
I do agree regarding your opinion on inning limits though Dream
Just 4 games ago the Bucs were 4th in runs scored, after the next 3 games they are at least 11th
If they continue to average 1-3 runs per game soon they will be last
Giving up runs doesn’t seem to be a problem though
I could be dead by 2030, I would like to experience one more competitive team before then
Off day tomorrow. Bednar needed work. I like that move. Davis is capable of good pop times and has a cannon although not a accurate one. Most the stolen bases have been on the pitcher though. Not that Davis would have thrown a ton of them out.
Mets have good pitching. But shouldn’t be that good for an entire series.
I’d imagine that Shelton is worried sick about Bednar and Chapman about now. This was an effort to get him some confidence and it backfired
But they’re the least of the problems right now. I don’t want to be a told ya so type but do any of the true believers out there actually know the game, let alone watch it
This is a replay of 2023 so far. They have 11 wins thanks to quality starts
Their hitting is sporadic at best
I get what Dream is saying about strikeouts. The problem is that the other at bats the lineup has doesn’t feature a plethora of doubles, triples and homers
It’s fine. In the central, being .500 means being competitive. But there’s no reason to rush young pitchers up here if there isn’t a great deal of consistent young hitting, too
They should contend before then. If they don’t hit they need a new hitting coach. I don’t care if they think he is good or not his fault. Sometimes you just need to change things up and it’s easier to change coaches then players. Need to let these starters go deeper. 49 59 69 pitches I don’t see the difference. They let Jones throw 80 some every start. Should have kept him at 70 then. 4 games of 70 some pitches vs 3 of 80 some then 1 rest day of 59 doesn’t seem like it’s going to do anything. 1 lesser day is going to save his arm I dunno about that.
I hope you’re right about Davis but I will remain skeptical until he shows signs of significant improvement
Agree 100% about pitcher length but then, I’m old school. The expectation used to be going into late innings, if not complete games
But we’re in the era of multi millionaires. It is what it is
I don’t mean to diss the Mets, but uh, this is the Mets You don’t go to Philly and face their guys—and arguably should have won all 4–then get swept by this group
But again, that’s the point
This team is not a real contender and as such, you’re going to have these spells.
Dream, you can fire Haines. You can fire Shelton. But you can’t get blood from a stone. These are not the young Cutch era Pirates. They’re certainly not the Bonds/Bonilla era. Let’s stop the wishing for a year or two.
Lastly, yeah, I get why they brought Bednar in. I’m thinking Shelton now wishes he hadn’t. More questions about the kid.
They already need a new hitting coach and have had that need for a few years
Haines comes cheap which might explain why he hasn’t been canned yet as they aren’t about to spend money on a more prominent hitting coach
The theory of taking as many pitches as possible to get into the bullpen early was a monumental failure this series and Shelton’s lineups didn’t help either
Cutch, who had the flu during ST only had 13 plate appearances during the time he wasn’t sick, had more hits than Connor Joe during this 3 game series and only played in 2 games
So, I question why he wasn’t in the lineup today when Joe hadn’t done squat?
And please don’t say it’s due to his ability to drive in runs. He did that well prior to this series but like today, he hit into 2 DP with runners in scoring position
Shelton did the same thing with Falter today pulling him after throwing only 73 pitches while we were only down one run
Once Stratton took the mound, our chances of coming back became slim to none
Pulling Jones yesterday early had the same adverse effect
You’re right, @tiredolderdude, these are not the young players of either generation, but they are still supposed to have potential
Triolo was brought up last year and hit the ball well. So far he’s regressed
Davis wasn’t the second coming of Sanguillen last year but showed he had potential.
This year he probably couldn’t hit a ball off of a T
Cruz leads the league in ks with 32 and really the only position player that seems to have improved is Alika Williams
They’re the kind of group that’s going to put win streaks together—if the starting pitching stays healthy—and people here are gonna say, see, they have arrived
But no, they haven’t
I’m still laughing at DreamGM’s strikeout comment to you and I. I hope you didn’t club any animal, my friend, lol, but he misses the point
These guys just generally aren’t good enough hitters to pull it off. A team full of Reynolds? Maybe. Perhaps some more like Hayes. Or Cutch of yesteryear
But too many of these guys are beyond inconsistent. Suwinski. Cruz. Tellez. Triolo.
Joe and Olivares have cooled
Davis? Oy.
But again, they’ll have their moments.
(Your comment about Triolo is on target. I liked the kid but he’s done little. May be time to get a spark here and bring Peguero up)
I’m sticking with 79-82 wins
Missed this one earlier
Bingo
Which is why I doubt they are *serious* contenders anytime soon, at least as constructed
Your “doubt any coach” thought is right on target. Watch the games! These guys define how NOT to approach an at bat, the idea of what plate discipline is and they are clueless about count advantages and pitcher/game strategies
Bingo!
Things they should have known years ago
But here’s where I part ways with you:
If they won’t make adjustments, they don’t understand offensive team concepts. And that means they can’t win with this group
There’s a difference between strikeout ratios of the Braves, Yankees, Dodgers or others as compared to the Pirates
On one hand, they may be similar, but on the other, they either have enough hitting to offset the strikeout sprinkling or do enough of the little things to win.
Extra base hits. Hit and run. Move runners. Effective baserunning. More
Other than Gonzalez’ injury, the starters have done very well, but Shelton destroys good starters’ performances by calling on the bullpen during times where they aren’t needed
Falter today and Jones yesterday are perfect examples. Neither had high pitch counts and both kept us in the games
He did the same when Perez was pitching an absolute gem, but brought in Bednar and he blew the lead and a save. Perez should have been given the opportunity to finish the game,
Oliveras I have noticed has never seen a pitch he didn’t want to swing at and I have never thought Joe was anything more than a platoon player but Shelton writes his name in the lineup anyway and more often than not, he fails to deliver
When Grandal returns from the IL, Davis needs to be sent to Indy to work on his swing
I’m trying more than ever to monitor what the guys on the cusp are doing on the farm. No surprise that Nick, Peguero and Bae are tearing it up down there. How long before they warm up the shuttle again?
Guess I’m heartened that Lonnie White already has 4 homers and is an outfielder. Oh happy day!
I just hope that if they continue this path, there’s no rush to get Skenes up here unless they’re completely sure. Seems he’s much closer than Ashcroft (who’s been hit hard during his first couple appearances) or Solometo
I still say Chandler rises above those two. Dream can correct me, of course
Your thoughts on Davis are probably the likely path for Davis and I’d wonder if he ever smells the lineup again here unless there is some incredible turn around. Shame. Had high hopes
I’m certain most the steals have been because of the pitcher. Certain Davis could pop up and fire a rocket to 2b. 33 percent chance it goes to right side of 2b. 33 percent chance left side of 2b. 33 percent it goes into outfield. Drive line improved everything about Davis but his throwing. No idea if he ever fixes it.
Would love to know Cutch well enough to get his feelings about being solely a DH. I thought that when he signed, there was some discussion about playing some guys in right. Got a lot of folks upset
Strictly being a DH/PH isn’t for most guys. Hard to get “into” the game.
Jeez…
“…about him playing some right field, too”
Like top gun. Goose died. They kept sending Maverick up. Same with Bednar. Don’t need this ego garbage though. Closer by match up until he figures it out. Or real short leash.
Mets are solid team. As good as Pirates at least. They bought the Brewers gm so they should know what they are doing now.
Pirates shouldn’t be good. Half the team is castoffs from other teams. Time to contend is now. Actually last year. They tried. Lots of A+. Best off season in baseball. Blah blak blah. The free agents aren’t the problem. Your core of locked up players need to perform. The Cruz Reynolds slump. I think the last game they won they both went hitless but that isn’t sustainable. Jacks gotta get some Jacks. #1 overall picks can’t be busts.
I dunno. 3 games even 3 weeks isn’t enough to really be useful. I’m not worried about Joe at all and would play him over Cutch. Fans have no idea how someone feels or what ailments they have. They are heavy into matchups. Joe had been hot and Cutch not. I would have played Joe as much as he could handle.
Coaches are cheaper than players. If they can make a difference Nutting will pay them. He fired his entire management staff and paid them 10 15 20 million to sit at home and do nothing. He isn’t going to worry about a couple hundred grand.
Where’s tiredolderdude telling us about how amazing Triolo is. Haines her way got him doing that lil leg kick and tapped into his immense power.
Yep, I missed that one. But I thought that Reynolds started hitting last year when he said screw the crouch/bend and that someone got Triolo to stand more erect and it resulted similarly.
So far, bad call on my part
And it appears you’ve been right all along about Davis
Agree about the free agents they brought in, of course. They were here to augment their young core and not carry them. But this has been my problem with the Pirates system since the young Cutch era. Player development or lack thereof. It’s why you take any news about stars in the minors with a grain of salt.
For instance, the triumvirate of Gonzales, Peguero and Bae are off to hot starts at Indy. But once they get here, will there really be any change from what we’ve seen?
Davis might be alright. Trending towards average above average vs all star. Besides throwing he needs to hit ball harder more consistent. Get more comfortable in the box. He has the talent to get back to being something more than average. Coach him up and get him trending towards all star. Dodgers will get it out of him.
Bubba has the most talent and highest ceiling. I project him to be the best. Would be the one I took in trade if offered the 3 to choose from. Solometo is closer to Jeff Locke than Bumgarner. He’s deceptive and has command. Stuff wise you think #4 and find yourself with cy young contender. You never know. Ashcraft is great prospect. Not far off from Jones. Lil tier less. Lil more reliever risk but wouldn’t be out of place in the back of a top 100 list.
Bae needs either improved defense, draw more walks, or hit the ball in the air. If he doesn’t do at least 1 of these things I can see him not being in the organization this time next year. Nick struggled against good breaking stuff. High heat can get him as well. Needs to fix those weaknesses or mlb pitchers will defeat him. Or he can be a high k guy if he taps into his power potential. I like his odds much more than Bae. But don’t love them. He is ok 2b. I would say he can’t play ss. Not confident in him at 3b. Never seen him in outfield. He really really needs to hit.
Peguero most upside. Can definitely play 2b. Good enough to backup SS. I think he can handle 3b outfield with some reps and instruction that the Pirates probably won’t can’t provide. Good bat speed. Has power in him. Athletic. Like before he is the one I would trade for.
He was supposed to play outfield 30 40 percent but his arm fell off. Then his ankle fell off. Outfield days are over or rare occurrence. He should be happy because he doesn’t have a say. His body made the decision.
At AAA you have to scout the player. A+ AA are good for evaluation of stats. Players with mlb experience going back to AAA should do well. What is in AAA or more importantly not? Not much elite talent. As fast as prospects are called up today they elite ones aren’t at AAA level long. So AAA doesn’t have the elite talent prospects. It’s field with quad a depth. Dee Gordons Jake Lambs guys not good enough to win a mlb job but good veteran depth. Players rehabbing injuries. With pitchers elbows exploding daily anyone with mlb stuff won’t be spending much time in AAA.
Joe like several others at times allows his check swings to cross the plate and either makes weak contact or strikes out
I know you don’t like Cutch. Dream, I don’t like Joe.
Oddly Cutch had more hits against the Mets than Joe and drove in a run while twice with runners in scoring position Joe he hit into double plays
Mendoza last year praised how well Triolo hit including in the minors
I don’t remember Tired praising him
It’s a bit scary that we see eye to eye here
I’ve said this about Bubba all along. And Solometo, although I hope he does a bit better than Locke
I hope it’s not the Dodgers or any other team gets the talent out of Davis.
Yeah, TheMan3, I was on the Triolo bandwagon, too
In your defense, Trilio was a force when he was called up last year and even I had high expectations for him this year
Off topic, after yesterday’s embarrassment, Shelton said the batters need to start switching at pitches in the strike zone
I literally shook my head when he said that as if no s**t sherlock
But as we’ve all said, it’s early. The young guys are just getting their bearings, really
Hope for the best and for consistency.
Yeah, Shelton is the Casey Stengel of the Pirates.
You wanted Cutch over Joe you got him
I vividy remember when just last week claiming how good Rowdy is and how good our minor league pitching prospects were
Rowdy can’t hit worth his weight and Priester has already given up 2 solo homers so spare me your opinion on who I like
The best thing I’ve seen so far tonight was Russell Wilson taking BP. Has a better, more powerful swing than most of the guys playing
And hey, I just asked about Cutch. Didn’t actually make a request
This is the Pirates team as I’ve known them for the past couple years. Feels kinda like home. Comfortable knowing the territory.
Take solace, TheMan3, my friend. They aren’t as bad as they were 3 or 4 years ago, and more than anything else, your insights and perceptions are more accurate than the analytics crowd, combined. (Not referring to Dream, who is coming around to the idea that this team isn’t going to contend for anything anytime soon unless somehow, Jones, Skenes and a couple others can go 9 every time out)
Tough time to be a pro sports fan in the uh, “City of Champions”. At least Duquesne went to the big dance this year. That should hold me for another 47 years
Rowdy is doing well. You just choose to look at useless stats.
Vividly remember? You don’t remember at all. I can talk for days about Skenes Jones. Hours about Bubba Ashcraft. Have a nice lil chat about Solometo. I promise that you didn’t see me talking up Priester other than depth until the real pitchers get called up. I was never as high on him as others and when he lost that fastball he plummeted even more.
Not coming around. Been around. Again when I said the rebuild is over and it is, it’s because they are *too good” to lose 100 games and get number 1 overall picks or even top 5 odds. They traded away Musgrove Taillon Stallings Rodriguez Frazier Bell. Extended Hayes Keller Reynolds. So there is nothing left to trade other than Bednar. If Cherington was fired tomorrow the gm has to contend. You simply can’t rebuild. Obviously you reload at deadline trading all your rentals but every team does that.
I thought this could be a 80 win team and give a run in the weak central. All they needed was guys to be good as last year. Cruz Suwinski Cutch are worse. It’s early but it’s been a bad looking week. Where’s the power? Cruz Suwinski even striking out 200 times should hit 30 hrs. Look at Davis college numbers. He got hrs in there somewhere.
For all those who say that the arm injuries for pitchers are the result of throwing max-effort 95+ mph fastballs, here’s an example of the opposite. The premier deceptive low-velocity and speed-changing pitcher in the game, Marco Gonzales, is now injured too.
Pitching in general gets to you over time, no matter if your fastball is 88MPH or 98 MPH. Gonzales also had Tommy John surgery very early in his career, a minor forearm strain about 6 years after that, and then a nerve issue last year that required surgery.
Takes him max effort to throw 90
If you actually think that no low velo pitcher can ever get injured that’s on you. Throwing max effort, high spin rate, high velocity increases the likelihood of injuries. It doesn’t mean guys like Jamie Moyer never had injuries in their career.
Also, comparing a guy going in the DL for 15 days vs a guy throwing so hard his tendon tears and is out 18 months as the same thing is silly.
Love Marco as an M’s fan, hope he’s back on the mound soon.
Well, that’s really unfortunate. Skenes still needs stretched out. He threw 55 pitches the other day, the most he’s thrown in a pro game yet. At least Priester has looked pretty good at Triple-A so far. Honestly thought he’d get the final rotation spot out of Spring Training over Falter at the time.
Falter is pitching like a man who does not want to go back to Indianapolis
Personally, I was against keeping Falter as a starter but I have to admit, he’s changed my perspective on his potential
Pirates can’t demote him without exposing him to waivers. No way Pirates can get away with that after Falter’s start to the season.
Fleming probably gets a start.
Shelton said that he would use the same approach as last year when they were short a starter so yes it’s likely Fleming will make a start
Nice comeback today considering as a team they struck out 13 times in 7 innings
Cruz alone with 4. I repeatedly beat the strike out issue because that doesn’t put runners on base or score very often
Problem is that it’s like crickets here until the wheels come off a bit
Like last year, they’re off to a nice start and truthfully it’s because of quality starts
But now you have Gonzalez out for at least a couple starts. You wonder if we’re not heading down the same road and if so, the strikeouts and poor at bats will bite them. Like it all did last year
They have a couple guys who are consistent hitters and a couple guys with power that hit bombs every so often
But Suwinski and now Cruz continue to be worrisome, despite the upside
I’m contradicting my thoughts in a previous post but I often wonder if Davis knows where the strikezone is
But at this time of year, pitchers still have some advantage.
Would be nice to see a few guys get hot
During yesterday game, 7 hitters were called out on strikes, so my question is,! why aren’t they taught to protect the plate and foul off a pitch that isn’t thrown in their wheelhouse?
Taylor also struck out 4 times yesterday, 2 were called third strikes
I agree with @tiredolderdude that Davis appears lost st the plate so far
He had 57 games under his belt from last year and has regressed so far this year offensively
They picked up Dave Fleming from the Mariners in that deal?
Domingo German doesn’t show on Indianapolis Indians roster
If gone for an extended time it’s a huge loss. Gonzales was a A+ addition and looked absolutely fantastic. Last years team was a low 80s win team until they lost 3 of their 6 best starters and Contreras Ortiz fell off a cliff. Hopefully the same thing doesn’t happen this year. Depth is better this year. Lauer looks good. Fleming can go multiple innings. Ortiz looks better. Priester looks better. These will be the options until Summer and then the 2 tj guys and Solo will be options.
Skenes could pitch good in mlb right now. They been keeping him at around 50 pitches 3 or 4 innings getting him used to going every 5 days. When you have a arm like Skenes you want to do everything you can do to protect it. You also want to get that 7th season. They want and get ready to laugh to have Skenes for stretch run and playoffs. That’s why so little spring training work and minors work. Jones if healthy all year will likely be shut down. I can’t see them letting him approach 200 innings.
They’ll most likely shut down Jones during All star break to save the innings if they’re still in contention. Building him back up for late in the season
They already traded one of the two TJ guys, so he won’t be helping the Pirates
Are you Buccos fans starting to get a strange feeling of deja vu coming up here soon? (When compared to how well the team started last year).
speaking strictly for myself, no I am not getting any feelings whatsoever of another season crash like we saw after such a terrific start to last season
The lineup is different, good mixture of youth and veteran. Starting pitching is much better and we have a solid relief corp
Injuries are unavoidable, every team has them, how they overcome injuries is what matters
That all said, there’s still problems with the offense. I make a big deal out of strikeouts, because striking out doesn’t put runners on base. The team is winning despite the inept manager and his hitting coach
Not at all. After 16 games last year the team was 9-7.
The midseason swoon last year was caused by an absolute fluky amount of pitching woes (Three Tommy John surgeries and guys losing velocity out of nowhere). The next waive of prospects weren’t ready yet when the injuries started. The Pirates played above .500 ball over the last month and a half last year once that next waive arrived and got their feet wet.
The Pirates did a great job making sure they wouldn’t have the pitching depth issues again by bringing in Marco, Perez, German, and Lauer to combine with the prospects being closer to arriving (with Jones already arriving). That’s the major difference between this years team and last years, it’s the depth. Which makes sense since this was the first year the rebuild was suppose to come to fruition.
If by “fluky” you mean the pitcher injuries, sure, your point is well taken. But the fly in your ointment comes when you realize that pitching got them to 20-8 without a whole lot of hit and runs support. When the pitching went south, well, the lack of offense really showed
You make note of how they did post-break and yes, it’s true that they put together a nice half. But Shelton pulled a rabbit out of his hat with having 1-2 “reliever starts” over the last month or more. And he’s planning this idea again, with Gonzo hurt, it appears
I hope the pitching holds up. You’re right. They have depth. I’m just not sold on their hitters beyond Reynolds and Hayes. I think Cruz will be fine but he K’s too much. And Suwinski? Even more than him
I’m still going with 79-82 wins. I’m still thinking ‘25 is the year they emerge, with Skenes and Jones on the staff
Where did I say anything that disagreed with you? Had their pitching stayed healthy and/or Contreras/Ortiz not inexplicably lose a significant amount of velocity, they would have competed throughout the entire year. That’s all I said. They were still rebuilding last year, they didn’t have the depth needed to sustain lots of injuries in any one area, and that’s exactly what happened with the pitching.
Shelton is only planning that again if Marco is not out long-term. If he’s out long-term they’ll call up Priester or Lauer and stick with a five man rotation.
Suwinski has done everything you and the other posters on here asked him to do, and he doesn’t K nearly as much as Cruz. He’s cut his K-rate in half (It’s only 17% this year), makes contact 20% more, and takes almost 20% less pitches. What is your issue with him now?
I predicted 83-86 wins before the season, and that still seems accurate to me.
Wasn’t debating you, Buc. Sorry if it sounded that way
I keep reading fans who say Suwinski has turned it around. I guess I’ll have to look a little harder. Mechanically, there hasn’t been much of a change.
Your percentages don’t mean a whole lot 17 games in. Let’s revisit at mid season. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that knowing what I do about mechanics and plate discipline, he’s going to be in the same range as last year at that time
And comparing him to Cruz only points to how worrisome things are. You’re talking about two guys who simply *must* improve greatly and perform for this team as currently built to contend
Lastly, I’m not sure what you’re referring to where depth is concerned. The starting pitching has been a pleasant surprise but in terms of depth, you’re pointing to Priester or Ortiz? By all accounts, Skenes won’t be here for awhile. Burrows is out until late summer at best. Solometo and Ashcroft haven’t been having a great deal of fun so far this season on the farm
Look, I’m a fan like you, but my “issue” seems to be stuck more in the reality of things than the dreamland that aptly named DreamGM espouses. In his thinking, the rebuild is over
Hardly.
I’ll get back to you at mid season
I said Priester or Eric Lauer when it comes to starting pitching depth. Lauer was my favorite addition of the offseason. As soon as he’s stretched out I think he’ll be in the rotation for good through the end of 2025.
It’s only 17 games, but Suwinski’s contact numbers are drastically different. I think he’ll strikeout a little more than 17% when it’s all said and done because it’s hard to imagine a player cutting their K-rate in half in one offseason, but his approach has been noticeably different this season. He’s also doing a heck of a job staying alive with two strikes.
The rebuild is over, this is the first year to compete. They have depth at most positions, but are still a very young team. I really like the core of this team and think they, along with the Reds, will control the division for the next four or five years after this one.
Admittedly, I don’t know much about Lauer and rely on your thoughts
I think the only point of departure between us is that I see them a year off
Thanks
I think it’s time to give the Pirates respect when it comes to working with veteran pitchers. I did not have faith in Gonzalez who had fringe stuff already and coming off an injury. Thought Perez would be okay, both have more than done their part so far, and it’s happened in the past as well.
However, the most important thing is can they ever develop young pitching? Keller took an odd road to success, Jared Jones looks like the real deal because of raw stuff alone but no one else has really worked out other than Cole.
? Is if they can develop young hitters. Pitchers they can most certainly develop.
Hitters are also a major issue as well as overall development period. Their sustained success will come from young guys working out, not just vets on one year deals every year, though they seemed to have chosen wisely. A lot of idiots also wanted Connor Joe off the team as well.
Even though they didn’t have many top pitching prospects in the past few years, I still haven’t seen them develop many aside from Cole and Taillon. And like I said, Jared Jones looks very promising, and Keller had a very odd path to success.
You’re jumping the gun here a bit, no?
Let’s hold off on calling Marin the new Ray Searage, who really was a great coach for veteran pitchers, until we see a season of growth and change. I’m hoping for a season worth of consistency from Keller, let alone new guys
While I wasn’t one of “the idiots” who wanted them to trade Joe, again, you’re jumping the gun. The guy has a great start but faded a bit recently. He’s likely what’s he’s been for his career: a spot starter and sub. Nothing wrong with that. Valuable for a team
Hitting remains the problem here and simply put, one doesn’t see a great deal of evolution as players come up through the system. DreamGM is right; scouts and development guys don’t grow on trees. But Suwinski looks as he did last year. Davis seems to be clueless where the strike zone is (he’s not alone). And that’s the thing. Plate discipline, knowledge of the strike zone, awareness of counts and pitcher strategies—does anyone really instruct the young Pirates
I’m hoping you’re right about everything. I’m just not willing to believe it until late summer
Searage was one of the most overrated coaches in the history of the franchise. Jim Benedict was the one that actually turned around those pitchers, and that’s why that trend stopped when he went to the Marlins.
You’re wrong on Suwinski. He looks nothing like he did last year. He’s improved on every contact statistic despite playing against a lot of lefties to start the year. Davis probably needs sat for a few days (same with Cruz). Young guys will have ups and down, and then all of a sudden it’ll “click”. I don’t even look at overall stats for the most part until May, it’s too small of a sample size before then.
Yeah, the list of guys like Burnett, Liriano, Volquez et al who credited Searage were just paid actors. Sure
Searage failed miserably with young pitchers in the system, no doubt
Glasnow. Morton. Others. Had to find themselves when they left Pittsburgh
Benedict was a tremendous pitching coach, as well. By the time he left here, the team was left with Taillon, for the most part, and another rebuild
I addressed your Suwinski comment above. I like the kid. I hope you’re right. And the same goes for Davis
Ray Searage is who delivered the message and protocol developed by Benedict. There is a reason the teams pitching stunk under Searage after Benedict left the Front Office.
I think Searage is a bad pitching coach, but a very likeable and personable guy. That’s why players liked him, he was a players coach.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
I look for Pirates to bring up Eric Lauer to replace Gonzales as they are both in the crafty lefty category of SP’s.
If Gonzales is out for an extended period of time I think Lauer would make a lot of sense. Lauer is a good pitcher and has actually been better than Gonzales in recent years.
Lauer was my favorite signing off the offseason actually. Once he’s stretched out I think he’ll be in the rotation to stay through 2025 (still has another year of control beyond this year).
Pirates blowing their chance at the division by not putting Paul Skenes into the rotation right now. I applaud this as a Brewers fan. Even 4 innings of Paul Skenes would really help them. It would sure help them more than it does dominating at AAA. I only assume that they are being cheap and trying to get more control over him. Or maybe they will keep him in AAA until he gets his Tommy John out of the way.
They’ve already gained the year of control and they aren’t being cheap. They’re being careful with the future of their franchise. He’s never pitched on 5 days rest before and they’re easing him into innings/pitches on 5 days rest. As soon as he’s stretched out to 5 plus innings he’ll be called up.
The Pirates currently have one of the best starting rotations in the NL statistically. Right now there isn’t a rush. Plus, they still have Eric Lauer and Quin Priester in AAA and Luis Ortiz in their bullpen for depth. They have plenty of depth to be patient with Skenes.