The Blue Jays have won five of their last six games, but still sit below the .500 mark with a 28-30 record, putting them a few percentage points behind the Rays for last place in the AL East. As Darragh McDonald put it in a piece for MLBTR last week, some tough decisions will await the club heading into the trade deadline, and perhaps in the bigger picture entirely if the Jays don’t start heating up in a hurry.
Trading either of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. or Bo Bichette would be the most seismic moves Toronto could make if the team did decide to sell at the deadline. The duo have been the faces of this era of Blue Jays baseball, but since both are scheduled to become free agents after the 2025 season, it isn’t yet clear if either player will truly be in Toronto for the long term — whether due to the Jays’ overall struggles, or the team’s own hesitation about making a big financial commitment to players with inconsistent performance.
In either case, Jays GM Ross Atkins pushed back against the idea of a Guerrero/Bichette trade in an interview today on SiriusXM’s MLB Network Radio, and reiterated that the Blue Jays “believe in their futures and hope that there is a way they can play here for a long time.” In regards to possible extensions, Atkins said “of course we have dialogue with them” about such multi-year deals, “and that is something that will continue.”
This belief would seem to preclude the idea of Guerrero or Bichette being moved at the deadline. Atkins said he was “disappointed” in a recent report from MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand, which featured a quote from an unnamed AL executive who said Toronto wasn’t “opposed to” moving one of their two cornerstones, and have “talked to teams about it,” though “the asks were ridiculous.”
Atkins didn’t deny that some conversations had taken place with other front offices about Guerrero and Bichette, but in the sense that that the other teams were floating the idea of a trade, not the Jays themselves. Trading Guerrero or Bichette “just doesn’t make any sense for us…There will be occasional times as you’re talking to other executives, that they’ll ask if we’ll consider, and we just say it’s not something that we have spent any time on. Because they are so talented and such great teammates, they are attractive to other teams, so [others] will call.”
It is common practice for executives to check in on all sorts of players, simply out of due diligence just in case a rival team might be open to moving a player not known to be available, or if such a player could be available at a lower-than-expected price. Technically, a trade that “doesn’t make any sense for” in Atkins and the Blue Jays in early June could start looking a lot more sensible if the team is still struggling in late July, and some early groundwork laid by an interested suitor could make them Atkins’ first call at the deadline if the Jays did change direction.
That said, Atkins expressed confidence that better things were ahead for his team, noting that the two players have been hitting better after posting rough numbers in April. Guerrero in particular has been hot, hitting .366/.458/475 in 118 plate appearances and 26 games from May 1 through June 1, even if he had hit only two home runs in that span. Bichette has also posted a .318/.356/.471 slash line in his last 90 PA.
Even with the two stars producing, however, the Blue Jays as a whole have continued to struggle to score runs. George Springer has continued to struggle, Daulton Varsho has cooled off after a solid April, and the improvements from Guerrero and Bichette have been countered by Justin Turner’s bat suddenly going ice cold over the last month. As a collective group, the Jays are also near the bottom of the league in hitting with runners in scoring position.
With offensive production at a premium, the Jays’ lineup today had the unexpected twist of Guerrero’s return to third base. Guerrero made his MLB debut as a third baseman in 2019, but hasn’t played the position at all since, apart from two late-game cameos at the hot corner.
Atkins said that the decision to use Guerrero at third base was “something we’ve been working on collectively…and that’s another way for us to deploy a lineup that maybe creates a little more offense.” Manager John Schneider said the same following today’s 5-4 win over the Pirates, telling Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith and other reporters that Guerrero could perhaps play one of every five or six games as a third baseman. Turner or Daniel Vogelbach could then be used at first base or DH, or one of the Jays’ two catchers (Danny Jansen or Alejandro Kirk) could get a DH day while the other backstop is also in the lineup and behind the plate.
After Matt Chapman departed in free agency, Ernie Clement and offseason signee Isiah Kiner-Falefa have more or less split the playing time at third base this season, with Turner, Cavan Biggio, Addison Barger, and now Guerrero getting a few stray appearances. Kiner-Falefa has also seen a good chunk of action at second base, and he has performed well in this virtual everyday role. Not only is IKF delivering his customary strong defense, but he is also hitting .268/.315/.399 in 182 PA, for what would be a career-high 105 wRC+.
Hmmm… the homegrown guys – Bo, Vlad, and Jansen and Schneider are all hitting, and the rest of the assembled group is awful and underachieving… maybe Atkins should be on the chopping block
Jays are going nowhere fast
Both guys under control 1 more season
Why not trade? Get a great package of prospects in return. Vladdy’s power has diminished, bichette’s hitting 230
Its like the muts not trading pete. They’re not resigning him, & he’s gonna walk & muts get nothing for it
I hear what youre saying. Vlad is a guy they have been paying a lot and if they want to keep paying him they could keep him long term at rates not too much higher than he’d already be making. He is still so young. He’s puzzling tho. Bichette is different to me. It’s hard partially because he’s underperforming. First I think this team could still make the playoffs and he could always be traded next year. But if he has a full down season what then? I could see trading him if he starts hitting. But since these guys aren’t impending FA it doesn’t totally appeal to me. I don’t like selling off when you have a talented 500-ish team with those WC spots unless there are lots of players whose deals are up after the season.
Some team is absolutely going to overpay Vlad in free agency to the tune of 35 to 40 million, even if that comes on a 3 year deal with opt outs. Some GM will think he can fix that power output. He’s gonna make a very undeserved 23 plus in arbitration next season
There is no team in baseball who thinks Vlad is worth north of $30M – especially on a multi-year deal. If the Jays want to give him that, he’ll stay there and they’ll continue to be mediocre.
@rishi But let’s say Bo gets hurt next season and then walks in free agency and then he has no value like Donaldson. Atkins created this mess by not signing a single long term extension and not having the prospects to fix it internally
I get what you mean. It’s just tough because they are so win-now. If they were gonna sell I’d prefer they just rebuild. They have so many veteran pieces. They could rebuild quickly. The team looks on paper destined to turn it around, and so much of that is because Bo almost has to get better at some point. If it’s just Bo mainly I’m even more skeptical because the average prospect trade doesn’t work well. You need several big trades to ensure you get what you want. At least 2-3 for sure. Jansen will get you something but not a ton. I guess I could see trading Jansen, Bichette, and Vlad, at least. But if they don’t trade much more than that it’s gotta be for guys getting to the bigs soon cause they are built for now.
@rishi Jansen, Kikuchi and Garcia should all get pretty good returns as rentals, Bo, Vlad and Romano should all get you an even better package as layers with an extra year of control. As long as you target guys in AA and AAA or who have already made their debuts, you should be able to have a quick turnaround because the rotation is basically in place already. The problem is letting Atkins decide which players to get back.
Yea. Meant to mention Kikuchi but idk how I forgot about Garcia. I can see that sort of plan working out. Thanks for explaining. I should’ve looked deeper into things.
Jays cannot do that. They have no clue how to develop young players. Starts with Shapiro and works its way down.
How many years does it take for Jays fans to figure this out?
They just take on veteran salaries from teams that want to dump them.
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Teams that win in MLB make the players they have under contract better…..particularly their pitchers. My 2 favorite teams do that – Orioles under Elias and Phillies under Dombrowski. It starts at the top. Jays have a crummy baseball organization. Their large market revenue stream keeps them afloat.
@Samuel
O’s have been brilliant at scouting, drafting, and developing young players into superstars. Phils are mostly made up of FA signings/acquisitions- castellanos, schwarber, harper, realmuto, wheeler, turner, taijuan. very different strategies. i think phils have been lucky that their group has coalesced so well the past couple of years. most tms who sign alot of big FAs dont win a damn thing. the mets have the largest payroll in the world and are going to lose 100 games. alot of it is about clubhouse culture (no egos), & good managers/GMs
Johnny utah;
When Dombrowski came in the Phillies had lousy defense, their minor leaguers had produced next to nothing, their bullpen was the worst in MLB, they only had a few starters, and they couldn’t play fundamental team baseball.
The big-name FA signings were nice; but if you watch the Phillies play, the improvement in that team is far more then a half-dozen FA signings…..and they’ve let some of their big names go.
Dombrowski, his manager, ML and minor league coaches have done a remarkable job in developing and cleaning up the games of the players under contract. In comparison the Jays simply don’t have a clue.
Samuel the Phillies have like 6 total players on their roster that they did not trade for or sign as free agents. They might be the absolute worst example of a roster derived from developing talent.
@Samuel Both O’s and Phillies have 1 pitcher in each of their rotations that was developed within their farm systems.
The O’s have done an amazing job developing position player talent. The Phillies on the other hand only have 2 starting position players developed in their organizations.
That’s what I have been saying day one of this year Atkins and Shapiro came here blaming Alex had demolished thei minor league system and their number one priority when they came here was to do that. What the hell have they done to improve it , Bo and Vlad was part of Alex era who else has made the major leagues from minor league system , we have a great example of that tonight Francis is not a major league pitcher
you act like Vlad isn’t good….LMAO…
What peter bendix marlins GM would say he was in Toronto:
Trading Guerrero and bichette does make sense for us”
Does not make any sense for you because you will be fired if the Blue Jays have to go into another rebuild
Trading those guys doesn’t make a lot of sense for Atkins but it sure will for the guy who replaces him in the offseason
That would be the worst outcome. The value of a player controlled through ‘25 at the deadline is so much more than it will be in the offseason to an acquiring team.
I get what you’re saying but from Atkins perspective, a rebuild likely means he’s fired. Atkins is probably out after this year regardless but I’m sure he would want to try to make another run this year as a Hail Mary to save his job. There’s also an argument to be made that selling low on Bo and Vladdy this summer would be a mistake. Maybe they catch on in the second half and restore their trade value
I do see that line of reasoning and that’s what’s terrifying. If it actually plays out like that, I don’t see Bo or Vlad increasing their trade value between the deadline and the offseason. A team with needs in the offseason will have better alternatives and those guys would only have one postseason run left. If they don’t trade one of them this deadline, they may as well just see if they can be competitive next season with them.
I also don’t see why trading one of Bo or Vlad would constitute a rebuild. Nobody called it a rebuild when they traded Teo or Lourdes with a year left for immediate but controllable returns. They’ve already shown a willingness to do that. I think the best opportunity the Jays have to stay relevant is to trade Bichette at this deadline with one pre-arb major league piece like Andy Pages as part of the return. Bo being cold for a month or two is nothing new, yet year over year it all comes out as a well above average line. At his age, I expect other front offices to see the history and not fear that he is in some sort of irreversible major decline. He’s hit better lately and there’s still a couple of months to show well.
That’s right Atkins and Shapiro should have nothing to do with trading anybody on this organization , Rogers should wake up and kick their asses to the curb
“Doesn’t make sense for us”….Translated into English Atkins means the offers for have been about half what he wanted(and could’ve gotten 2+ years ago) considering both Bichette & Vlade are having rather pedestrian years.
There was no reason to trade them 2 years ago
They were not being extended. That’s a good reason to trade at peak value
“No reason to trade”…Since they(the team) didn’t do much 2 yrs ago and are not doing much now, hindsight suggests they should have sold high 2+ yrs ago when Vlade was a top 5 MVP guy and Bichette was mashing like nobody’s business. Of course, everyone’s a genius with benefit of hindsight.
Every year has been a pedestrian year for Guerrero except 2021 and to a much much lesser extent 2022.
Who says Bo and Vlad wanna be Blue Jays long term. Try to extend them now. If there’s no or little movement on their reps end, move them.
NOBODY wants to be a Blue Jay long term. Ahahaha!
Why would they want be with this organization , if Atkins and Shapiro are still heading up this organization . What have they done to build players around them . They have only signed player well past there prime
And this is why this team will forever be in mediocrity under this regime. They absolutely refuse to trade players when they still have value. They refuse to admit they haven’t built a championship team with no chance for sustained success.
They will hold on to Vlad and either trade him at next years deadline when his value is less than at this years deadline, or lose him in free agency because they are hoping for a wildcard, or he’ll get injured and have zero value.
They won’t trade, Kikuchi, Jansen or Garcia this year because again they will be holding out hope for that final wildcard spot, and even if they do give up and trade those guys, no one trusts Atkins to get full value for them, except for apparently Shapiro.
They haven’t signed a single player to an extension outside of Berrios and he cost us 2 of our top prospects at the time. They have graduated a few position player prospects but even a couple of those came from the AA regime.
Atkins needs to go. new GM can figure out how to get out of the mess, but I don’t see a way they don’t have to start a rebuild in the next 18 months
Should a team with a lot of recent success making the post season give up less than halfway through the season because they’re 2 games under 500?
Could they be asking stupider questions?
Problem I see with that, is league is full of mediocre teams and really only 2 totally out of AL WC picture can see myself. Those being oakland and the Chisox, who both stink all the way around. rest of the AL has some kind of chance, so why not try and pawn of the 20m of Guerero’s contract on someone?
Problem is Jays, like Boston generally refuse to cash in supposed stars and sell off at the deadline, prefering to sell as many seats and hot dogs as they can, rather than looking forward.
Tunnel vision, big market disease, whatever one wants to call it. Some teams have done more to maintain equality amongst teams, by hurting themselves long term with thru being and acting short sighted.
Boston has definitely sold off stars in the past, as much as any rich team I can think of. There were the two big trades to the Dodgers — Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett and Carl Crawford in one trade and Mookie Betts and David Price in the other. There was also the Jon Lester and Jonny Gomes trade with the A’s.
And I shouldn’t even mention the Bambino to the Yankees (but I will). None of the trades worked out that great for Boston, though they did get back Verdugo in the Betts trade.
The Gonzales, Crawford etc worked out great, unloaded bad contracts and won immediately.
2 points;
As frustrating as it is — this team is one impact bat or a couple joc pederson types away.
Secondly, vladdy is pacing towards having an elite prime. Hes growing into his bulbous butt. But his prime will be similar to joey votto/todd helton/ miggy — ya know 300 avg, 30 + homers and a 400 obp
Sign him long term for 10% off now!
I’m no Jays fan but any move that involves getting Vogelbach in more games doesn’t sound like a net positive. Sadly for the Jays, their window seems to have slammed shut.
The plan with Vogelbach is simple. They’re getting they’re 1b/DH’s (Vlad, Turner, and Vogelbach) into the same lineup for next few weeks to see who sinks or swims (between Turner and Vogelbach).
They have Horwitz at AAA who is killing it at the plate but is a 1b/DH only.
Whichever of Turner or Vogelbach doesn’t do well soon is either benched (Turner) or cut (Vogey) and Horwitz will be the new DH.
It is puzzling that Vogey is on the roster at all
The simple eye test tells you he’s a great and supportive teammate who doesn’t complain about playing time. He’s been very clutch when called upon, which can be hard with erratic playing time. Lefty.
Good clarification. My money is on Vogelbach floating he seems pretty buoyant. Seriously though I’d bring up any hot prospect that is ripping it up in AAA. .
I think the Jays are in a similar situation to what my Cardinals are in. Their top players are well paid they don’t have a lot of trade value. Bichette and Guerrero will make about 40 million combined in 2025 what could they possibly get for those 2 guys? Not much. They got a window and they need to win now. You could certainly make a case that they should rebuild but they are kinda stuck where they are.
You can’t believe a word shapiro and carry on bagagge atkins say…..
They need to GO !!
Hahaha right… can’t get rid of Vladimir ‘Mediocre Every Season With The Exception Of 2021 And To A Much Much Lesser Extent 2022 And Whose Power Has Been In Decline For 3 Consecutive Seasons And Is On Pace For Around 14 HR’ Guerrero… Vladimir ‘2-3 WAR Who Will Never Even Be Consistently Good Let Alone A True MLB Star’ Guerrero… Vladimir ‘Showboating Gluttonous Undisciplined Perpetually Out of Shape Slob’ Guerrero.
no mention of Joey Votto? He can’t be worse than Daniel V….
still injured
Vogelbach is probably still there only until Votto is ready to go.
It doesn’t look good on the Jays medical rehab squad. It’s been something like eight weeks, and no sign…even on the bench. There must be more to this story….
Well, they’ve got the O’s coming up tomorrow, so we’ll see how that goes. A’s next weekend. Jays have the personnel to get it done, they just have to stop playing with one foot on the brake and the other on the gas. All things considered it’s impressive they’re only 2 games under .500
It’s only June. You ain’t seen nothing yet. Ahahaha!
Does trading Atkins make sense?
That guy will never be hired by another organization in Baseball the only guy that would hire him is Shapiro gets another job elsewere , which I doubt too .
Winning should always be the priority. And he should have left it at that.
If they can’t, or don’t want to sign them, they why on earth wouldn’t you trade them? Didn’t have any trouble trading Teo, Gabriel and Lourdes?
No trouble in those trades because Seattle and Arizona didn’t give up much to get them.
They did not have any trouble trading those guys because look what they got coming back . Blue jays have lost in both trades . Varsho great defensive player but that’s probably it .
Was listening to some of the Pirates radio broadcasts of this past weekend’s series while I was working. I don’t usually find John Wehner very entertaining but he had a number of interesting observations about the Jays, specifically their hitters.
He noted that many of them seem to swing for the fences nearly all of the time…which is somewhat ironic because as a team they aren’t hitting a ton of homers this season despite the number of guys who have a history of good homer production. Wehner noted that Bichette especially seemed to be trying to crush every pitch he swung at, and I don’t think he had a hit all series.
Wehner wasn’t at all just bashing the Jays: he was effusive in his praise of Springer’s defense, the Jays bullpen in all 3 games, and at other times. But, for example, when Guerrero knocked in a run today by going the other way through a big hole between 2nd and 1st, Wehner complimented Vlad and suggested that the Jays (and Pirates, who left about 30 guys in base today) would help themselves by not trying to pull everything or hit a 3-run homer every at bat.
Wehner is underrated. He was on point in his discussion of the Jays players, whether it was Vlad and his .280/15hr/70rbi pace, or Varsho and his .210avg being the only candidate to hit 30Hrs
I’ve always liked Bob Walk’s dry humor and his on-point observations, as well as his ability to be even in his critiques of both Pirates and opponents. But Wehner grew on me some over the weekend. He’s improved greatly.
That’s a strange observation as the Jays have prioritized contact hitting at the expense of power this year. The now publicly available bat speed data shows the Jays as having the slowest bats in the majors. That doesn’t seem to be a team swinging for the fences all the time. Their few power producers are doing it more through good swing decisions and pulling the ball at good launch angles than by swinging and hitting the ball hard.
I felt that way like 2 weeks ago or whatever it was…these rumors are baloney
Vlad wouldn’t fetch anything on the trade market.
Yeah if Shapiro and Atkins make the deal.
While Guerrero’s 2021 power surge looks more and more like an outlier aided heavily by playing half of his home games in minor league stadiums the reality is the Jays would be looking for Juan Soto type hauls for both (either in quality like the Nats got from the Padres or quantity like the Padres got from the Yankees). Not sure there are many teams willing to pay the price for either at the moment
Moving VG to 3B so you can get Vogelbach in the lineup and play 1B is the problem. He should only be playing 1B if your entire roster is on the IR.
Bigger problem is not getting the bats needed to compete. Thus forcing Vlad to play 3B, feeling Vogelbach in the lineup makes them a better offensive team. Might not be wrong as Cavan is going Cavan again.
It really doesn’t make sense to keep someone on the team just because of his last name. BIGGIO is a bust, he’s nothing like his dad!
Translation: The offers have been terrible but we do overvalue them as well. We will trade them if we get a ‘Godfather Offer’.
Who would want to see the jays Play without these 2 guys? They do not go until the end of next year! Trade in off season and keep your current momentum.
Who wants to watch the Jays currently even with those 2. May as well cash in now and get a bit better of a package than you would get in the off season
When Vlad and Bo don’t make the all star team this year their value will go down even more
If Vlad and bichette were performing at their projected potential this would easily be a playoff team. Their underperformance is the problem and it’s lingering is the demise of the jays
Translation: Trading Guerrero and Bichette doesn’t make sense for Atkins because it would signify a failure of the Shapiro/Atkins regime.
Yes…they were bitten from the trade with Arizona…(fans don’t forget).
Well it has failed . So has Rogers in keeping them around
Yup… and trading Ohtani didn’t make any sense for the Angels either. Now… they’re without one of the game’s best NOR a crap load of prospects that could help jumpstart their really really weak organization. I guess Toronto wants to make that same mistake. Because they’re no where near NY or Baltimore’s level. NY will outspend and Baltimore has the youth and farm to stay strong for a while. Sometimes you need to know when to throw in the towel and retool your system.
It may be too late to throw in the towel. The towel may already be sewn to the hand that feeds them.
You can’t trade under-performing “stars” and not look like a fool for getting a sub par return from other teams. As a gm what would you give for Vladdy hoping your people can find the missing link in his swing. Not much. Same for Bo. Trading them means as a gm you’re one step closer to being shown the door. Atkins has to appear to try to show as much stability as he can and not make what appears to be any rash decisions as that’s the only way he can potentially get hired by another team in the future. He has to try to show that the dumpster fire of a team that he created can be managed and not spread to burn down the whole organization. Good luck!
Let’s pretend Atkins is telling the truth instead of using the talking points Rogers asked him to use.
If trading Bo, Vlad, and any hot commodity at the deadline doesn’t make sense, why haven’t you pushed hard to extend them? Why didn’t you extend them in 2019 as the building blocks of your franchise? Yes you bought out Bo’s remaining arbitration years but that’s not the extension I’m talking about; it’s making him a Jay for life.
Bo and Vlad might have rejected offers in the past (that will be disclosed within the next year). This would make sense also. What doesn’t is sitting 4.5 games back of a wild card pretending everything is ok and you will continue to compete. Roster assembly and decision making has been a major issue with this front office and ownership.
Run prevention strategy only works if you can also put up Runs yourself.
The ONLY thing that makes sense is the Firing of shapiro and his useless GM atkins… The Sooner the Better !!
The 2 Cleveland Clowns must GO !!
Oh yeah let’s do it Tonight
Can’t imagine why Ohtani never got on that plane?
It better make sense soon. you only have them for one and a half years more.
Trading Ross Atkins for a manager to be named later makes the most sense .
Shitkins has no clue what does or does not “make sense” for this team.
i know this has been talked to death but seriously why can’t Vlad elevate? so what if his exit velo is in the stratosphere? he’s just a glorified singles hitter right now. the allure of some front office falling in love with restoring elevation to Vladdy’s stroke will get him paid – whether in Toronto or not, whether deserving or not, he will sign for a much bigger number than posters here will guess next year.
Twins need a 1st baseman. Maybe if we could save some money by getting rid of some dead weight like Farmer Margot Vasquez or Santana, 20 million per year for Guerrero sounds doable if unlikely.
We will add to the players that are past their prime .