The Phillies are about as well-positioned as any team with the deadline approaching. While Philadelphia has tailed off lately and is playing at a .500 pace this month, they’re nine games clear of the Braves in the NL East. They hold a three-game edge on the Dodgers for the top record in the National League and have arguably the most well-rounded roster in MLB.
They’re obviously positioned as buyers and should at least make some additions around the margins. They’ve been seeking a right-handed hitting outfielder for the last couple weeks. The bullpen has fallen on hard times this month, making that another obvious area for potential upgrade.
One of Philadelphia’s division rivals would make for a natural trade partner. Matt Gelb of the Athletic reports that the Phils have expressed interest in Nationals’ outfielder Lane Thomas and closer Kyle Finnegan. Washington could market both players, each of whom is under arbitration control for one more season. The Nats are considering offers on players they control for this season and next. They already dealt one such player, setup man Hunter Harvey, to the Royals in one of the more impactful moves in what has been a slow-moving deadline season.
Thomas is a right-handed hitter who does the vast majority of his damage in favorable platoon situations. He is destroying lefties at a .329/.414/.518 clip over 99 plate appearances this season. While a half-season platoon split is an extremely small sample, Thomas has been a lefty masher throughout his career. He’s a .307/.369/.520 hitter against southpaws. Thomas has produced below-average numbers versus righties. That has again been the case this year, as he’s hitting .211/.269/.347 without the platoon advantage.
The Nats have maintained they view Thomas as more than a short-side platoon bat. He has been in the starting lineup for 73 of the team’s 102 games. That includes a couple starts in center field, but Thomas is best served in a corner. He’s a middling defender even in right field.
Thomas isn’t the answer if the Phils are looking to upgrade over Johan Rojas in center field. Philadelphia would like a lefty-hitting complement for Brandon Marsh in left. Marsh has been an above-average bat (.274/.350/.448) against righties over his career. He hasn’t done anything against left-handers, striking out more than 40% of the time en route to a .211/.268/.289 slash.
Gelb writes that the Phillies aren’t exclusively looking at right-handed hitters in their outfield search. They could upgrade on either Rojas or Nick Castellanos in right if they landed an everyday player. A Thomas-Marsh platoon in left would yield excellent results, although it remains to be seen if the Phils are willing to meet Washington’s asking price to immediately curtail Thomas’ playing time. The 28-year-old outfielder is playing on a $5.45MM salary.
Finnegan is a more valuable trade asset. He was a first-time All-Star this summer after a few seasons of quietly strong work at the back of the Washington ’pen. Finnegan has worked as their closer for most of the past four years. After three straight seasons allowing between three and four earned runs per nine, he carries a 2.32 mark over 42 2/3 frames. Finnegan is 28 of 32 in save chances and has solid peripherals.
The righty has fanned 26% of batters faced against an 8.3% walk percentage. He’s sitting north of 97 MPH with his fastball and is getting swinging strikes at a decent 11.8% clip. Finnegan’s stuff is probably a tick below that of the top handful of relievers in the game, but he’s a consistently effective presence with ample ninth inning experience.
Philadelphia’s closing situation has been in flux with José Alvarado scuffling lately. Gregory Soto took the ninth in a tied game today against Minnesota. He hit a batter and allowed a walk-off single after a sacrifice bunt. Soto has been prone to bouts of wildness throughout his career, making him an imperfect fit for the ninth. Finnegan, who is making $5.1MM, has been a much more consistent strike-thrower.
Thomas and Finnegan may be obvious fits for the Phillies’ needs, but they’re surely two of many players the front office is considering. Acquiring either player (or both, in a package deal) could be complicated by the difficulty of trading within the division. Detroit’s Mark Canha, Oakland’s Brent Rooker and the Angels’ Kevin Pillar are among other righty-hitting outfielders who’d make sense as speculative targets. (USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tied the Phils to Rooker earlier this month.) There are no shortage of relievers who’ll move in the next few days, with Miami’s Tanner Scott and the Halos’ Carlos Estévez clear candidates as rental closers on bad teams.
One area which is evidently not a priority: the rotation. Gelb writes that the Phils are not emphasizing the starting staff and remain reluctant to part with their top prospects. Jon Morosi of MLB.com tweeted yesterday that the Phils were discussing Garrett Crochet and Jack Flaherty. Philadelphia already has a strong starting five, so it’d be very surprising to see them beat offers by other teams that much more desperately need rotation help for those top-of-the-market starters.
Mick Abel, Starlyn Caba, Cristian Pache, and Junior Marte for Thomas, Finnegan, and some reclamation project type of SP.
I guess, but Abel has been awful, Caba is a lottery ticket, Pache has no value, and if you’re talking about Yunior Marte, he’s 29.
It’s been too long since Abel looked like a pitcher. Maybe he can be fixed, but his 64/53 K/W is awful.
A little too much for some players with flaws
Why in heavens name would the Nationals do that?
If they do trade those players, is that the best return they can get for them?
Probably
Except for the 18 year old Caba, the rest of the guys are nothing-burgers. There isn’t any doubt that they can do way, way better.
Better off just keeping them, than taking that package.
Why would Nats trade two good players to a division rival that are under control next year for a bunch of non-prospects. It is not like Philly is only team asking about them.
I agree that the return isn’t enough but why would trading within the division matter? If anything, the Nats are speeding up their rebuild and hastening the end of the Phillies window, which would both be positives for them.
It’s funny seeing all these Nats fans saying this isn’t enough for the players they’re trading but I wouldn’t do that trade if I was the Phillies. Y’all might think your scrubs that you’re trading are good but Thomas is a career platoon player at best & more likely a decent backup on a good team & Finnegan is having a career year but has been a middling reliever every other year & y’all think you deserve a few top prospects. Both of them players could come back down to earth playing for a different team in a different stadium.
Big difference saving in philly then Washington. Especially with those fans.
I’m guessing what you mean by “those fans” is fans that fill the stadium and cheer for their team? You mean those fans, correct?
No, he probably means the ones that are routinely lauded by the players for creating an unbelievable home environment all year.
They could surely use a 5th starter for the right price as it is an absolute area of concern. But it isn’t as pressing as a RHB and a closer.
No point in trading for anyone who won’t be on the playoff roster.
Why wouldn’t anyone they trade for be on the playoff roster?
A new 5th starter would not be on the playoff roster in all liklihood.
A) He’s insurance.
B) He becomes a long relief option in the playoffs. Their bullpen isn’t THAT good that as an arm capable of throwing four or five innings (especially in a long series) he wouldn’t bump someone.
You called it “an absolute area for concern”, which is totally different that “long relief option in the playoffs”, where they have Walker, Phillips, Turnbull (and Sanchez) since he only throws Game 4 in 7-game series in for that role.
It’s not something they need to address at the deadline.
They surely could use a number 3 the way ranger has hit the wall. A closer is a must-have. Dumbrowski finally has got to have seen the light and now knows a right handed power bat is a must. The bullpen by God shore it up Dave or 250 million for a championship roster will be wasted.
Ranger looked good his last outing. I’m not concerned yet.
I am and ranger looked gassed.
His only start after the long all-star rest, he looked like vintage Ranger.
Kyle Finnegan lived in Walkin Street, a gentle Irishman mighty odd
He had a brogue both rich and sweet, an’ to rise in the world he carried a hod
You see he’d a sort of a tipplers way but the love for the liquor poor Kyle was born
To help him on his way each day, he’d a drop of the craythur every morn
a bottle of whiskey at his feet and a barrel of porter at his head
Shillelagh law was all the rage
Less than a week until the deadline. I really dont know what teams are waiting for. Hopefully we see some more trades here soon.
Deals always wait until near the deadline., especially in times when there are so few sellers. Those with assets to trade are trying to extract the biggest return, and they’re more likely to do so by waiting to the last moment when teams get really desperate.
What the heck is really going to change in a week? The Phillies are contenders. The Nationals are not. It’s like teams don’t know how to talk to each other anymore putting guys like France and Paxton on waivers instead of just working out a deal.
We will see what happens.
Black – consider what 1 or 2 injuries for contending teams does to drive up prices. Anxious buyers are good for sellers and the longer a seller waits the better.
Any seller in this market that wants to sell isn’t getting stuck holding the bag. May not get what they desire but can pull the trigger last second. A buyer isn’t pulling a deal to wait to trade another day because they can’t.
The prices are the prices. Both sides need to be reasonable and deals can be made. I do agree a lot of teams will wait until the last second but it’s silly deals can be made now.
I’ve always marveled at the TD, it usually all happens in the narrow window Saturday-Tuesday.
I would like to see some actual data on what you said Brew. I wonder if that’s true. I think it could be just wondering if it is for sure or to what extent the deals happen at the last minute.
@ blackpink
What will change is which of the other 28 teams might make a better offer.
And they might not. Offers might get worse. Ask Scott Boras about this.
Completely unrelated and incomparable to trade deadline.
The players being discussed to be traded can get hurt too. It works both ways.
No the sellers won’t end up keeping players if they don’t want to. But they aren’t necessarily going to get more by waiting. They could get less. You act like that’s not possible.
Brew, getting more “good with” that Soto trade every day!
Cease, King and Waldron – if they is all it is, I don’t believe that for a minute so long as AJ has the job – isn’t a bad rotation to start a playoff series.
Keep the faith brother.
@Black Negotiation tactics. One or both parties hoping that the pressure of the deadline will result in the other side making concessions. It’s effective to wait.
I think both sides need to get real and make a deal. Heck the Marlins traded Arraez way back when. I just don’t get why more deals like that don’t happen.
@Blackpink From someone with collective bargaining experience, I absolutely agree with your sentiment. However it rarely works that way. Sadly alot of people need pressure of a deadline to come down to Earth. I believe often there are just too many people who believe they re the smartest man in the room. With them you often have to cut the negotiation completely and wait often a few says for them to come to their senses.
But I’d love a world where logic prevails and individuals could lay their cards out quickly and reasonably bargain to a decent deal long before a deadline.
Black -“I just don’t get why….”
Disagreeing is one thing but a few folks on here including myself have given you similar versions of “why”.
Sellers are in control and they want the most and waiting can only help get more teams interested which allows for a few more rounds up upping the negotiating.
It’s called “supply and demand” in economics. When more people want and there is less to get, the seller can set the price.
With a deadline, they actually have more leverage because all buyers know that guy is moving before it expires and they bid against themselves – not necessarily with the seller.
The seller has no incentive to do this quick.
This really is the answer and fee free to disagree but absorbing the info might help you understand why it is what it is.
Waiting does not mean winning. Ask Scott Boras about this he will tell you. OK he probably won’t but…..
The players are worth what they are worth. Playing games doesn’t change their value.
Black – if all the trades happen today we will all say you were right.
When the majority happen in the last day or so, well wait to hear from you.
Who is we???? I hate when people say we in that context. It’s lame. Do it again I will mute you.
I think teams are going to wait until the last second. My point is they don’t need to.
Oui oui weeeeee all the way home.
I’ve been borderline muting you and your other personalities for all long time.
All I and the rest of us were trying to do was educate you if you want to ignore ok.
The rest of us????
Nice knowing you. I don’t owe you my time or attention. Take it easy.
@Black Bringing in Scott Boras into the discussion is a strawman argument and bears no relevance to the topic. Getting flippant is weak sauce my guy.
Boras is relevant. There is no evidence that waiting until the last second is better for either the buyer or the seller. That’s a fact.
“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”
@Blackpink Player value is not linear and supply and demand has a direct impact
@Blackpink The deadline puts pressure on the bargaining process of teams trying to negotiate a trade. Unfortunately yes often a negotiation needs a deadline to bring people closer to an agreement.
@Longtime An old guy I used to know would say “well 3 people disagree with me, that tells me I need to look back at why everyone else sees it different”. Joel doesn’t seem to embrace that whatsoever. He entrenches on an opinion and takes it as though it’s a shame or something to possibly be wrong.
One thing is for sure player values are not the same. When it comes to trades each side has an opinion on what that value is and what they would sacrifice to attain it. Or what they would accept in order to give it up. Deadlines help a side(s) become more compromising. Or often the sides just disagree and move on to deal with someone else.
How about Michael Mercado, Griff McGarry, Jean Cabrera, Samuel Aldegheri, Simon Muzziotti & Darrick Hall for Lane Thomas, Kyle Finnegan & Bryce Harper’s childhood best friend, Joey Gallo as the 26th man?
Then flip Christian Pache, Jose Rodriguez, Mick Abel to the Angels for Kevin Pillar & Reid Detmers.
Simon Muzziotti has trade value? My three year old and a laundry loop has more value than that guy in any trade
We’ll take Andrew Painter for Pillar, Detmers and Bryce Harper’s MLB best friend Hunter Strickland.
Is Hunter Strickland still doing that angry redneck thing?
I really don’t think it would take much to get Thomas and Finnegan. Pache, Marte and Ruiz probably make the deal work. I’d actually try and grab Winker too. Winker hits lefties well, Thomas hits righties well and platoon them with Rojas and Marsh in left and center. Finnegan is having a good season for a bad team so he’s not a guy who you need to throw prospects at. If anything, I like Fairbanks from Tampa Bay along with Rosario and Arozerena. Then you might have to part with some prospects. Stay away from the Phams, and Pillars. If they don’t get traded they will be released shortly after the deadline. Canha is a good bench bat to only platoon with a lefty hitter in left field. A marsh/canha or Marsh/mountcastle platoon.
In center maybe a Rojas/Mullins platoon.
Absolutely rediculous.
First, Rizzo *really* likes Thomas. He didn’t trade him last year when Thomas was having a better season overall than this year. Secondly, neither Thomas or Finnegan are UFAs until 2026. The Nationals don’t need to deal them. Pache, Marte and Ruiz wouldn’t get you a 5th OF from anybody, nevermind a OF and a closer with another year of team control.
Winker is more valuable than Thomas. The idea the Nationals will trade him for scrubs is nuts.
Why be in the market for another platoon player that will probably not make a difference. Sorry Lane Thomas you’re not a fit. If this is an all in season go for Luis Robert or something that is gonna make an impact. Put Rojas and one of the two left handed bums not name Matt in the deal. Those guys are brutal to watch
I don’t disagree. Just going with the article and scenario. My ideal situation is to send “defensive” specialist and offensive bum Rojas to the iron Pigs, go grab a legit CF and keep marsh in left. Love Topper but he does these match up things too much. Let Marsh and Stott hit every day unless prime Tom Glavine comes back from the past. So you see anyone other than Robert out there as a potential trade and that level? Rooker? Buxton?
Lane Thomas fits perfectly. He’s exactly what they need. They will platoon Marsh and Thomas.
Personally, I want a higher impact OF like Robert Jr, but it seems extremely unlikely.
Gotta get off the Rooker convo. He’s thriving in Oakland the minute he hits a major market it’s not gonna be pretty. If Minnesota is serious about moving money then yes Buxton is an option, probably wouldn’t cost much if Mr. Middleton picks up the salary
Didn’t know that about Rooker. The open market next yr part. Without Miller in that deal shelling out a lot of farm guys isn’t worth it. Plus Rooker is a corner of/DH type and Phils need a CF long term. Again, Rojas is not the answer in my opinion. Reynolds from Pittsburgh is also a good one to grab if they will part with him but, I think that Pirates team is looking to build not ship guys out and start over.
My concern with Rooker is that he apparently is Schwarber-level in the field. That’s a big issue.
It worked out pretty well for Matt Olson.
Buxton has a NTC. Maybe he’d waive it, hopefully not as a Twins fan. Yes the Twins have money issues but the at doesn’t mean they have any interest in trading him. The new info about clubs losing their tv money getting some of the tax money will mean they’re less motivated for that type of deal
Phillies will get Pillar
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think Finnegan is due for some regression. Had an ERA+ in the 110s for the previous three years and suddenly it’s 176. His K/9, BB/9, and HR/9 are right in line with his career averages. So is his EV but he’s allowed a bit more hard contact (hard hit % of 49.1% vs career of 43.4%) and more line drives (27.0% vs career of 24.5%). His BABIP is .210 compared to his career .280. Doesn’t make much sense unless his increased fly ball % (27.9% vs career 21.2%) is because of some adjustment he’s made. September/October is also not kind to him as he has a career 6.12 ERA in 50 innings. Also has zero postseason experience if that’s worth anything. I’d be wary about giving up a lot to acquire him.
After reading the comments, it seems like Phillies fans believe they don’t need to give up value since they would be trading with the Nationals. Trades don’t work that way. You have to give value to get value.
Eh. Very rarely pay attention to fan trade proposals – too often they’re of the “our bums for your stars” mindset.
Amen.
Lane Thomas? I really hope not.
Abel, Rincones Jr, Pache (he’s of no value a poor man’s Johan Rohas lol) for Lane Thomas + Finnegan should get it done.
Keep dreaming.
The Phillies wouldn’t get a rental bat of any consequence or a closer from anybody with that package. Abel wouldn’t even be a factor for the Nats with Herz and Parker already in the rotation and Cavalli potentially back in August. Grey’s back in late 25 or in 2026. Susana might be up by 2026 too.
The Nats OF of the future is Wood, Young (24 SB) and Dylan Crews. Pache isn’t even a poor man’s Victor Robles,
Abel has walks rates in the past two seasons of 5.79 & 6.66. FG has Rincones as a 35+ prospect. Pache has a 0.00 fWAR. You won’t get Thomas OR Finnegan for that package.
We’ll give the Phillies both of them for Turner.
Just kidding. But that trade sending Turner to the Dodgers *still* hurts. Loved that guy when he played in DC. More than Harper or Soto.
Phils should be “all in” on Tanner Scott and Brent Rooker. No excuse of trading the future…future is NOW. Haven’t won in 16 years, so argument of not mortgaging the future is false argument. Go get these two…today!
The better argument is that (A) you can’t carry 2 DHs and (B) Scott’s good, but what they really need is a RH reliever or two, not another lefty..
Exactly…..time to part ways with Schwarber.
Secindly, I don’t care if the reliever throws with his feet. Get the best arm…..righty or lefty