Mitch Keller is one of the top names on the pitching market. The Pirates have generally been expected to deal him to clear payroll space and bring back controllable hitting talent. While that’s seemingly the likeliest outcome, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic writes that the Pirates remain unsure of whether to trade Keller with six days before the deadline.
Keller is essentially in the first season of a four-year contract. He signed an extension in February 2024, though that left his already agreed upon salary for last year unchanged. Keller is playing on a $15MM salary this year. That’ll climb to $16.5MM, $18MM, and $20MM for the next three seasons. It takes him through his age-32 campaign.
That makes Keller the highest-paid player on the roster. It’s nevertheless quite a bit less than he’d command if he were on the open market. There’s surplus value that’d allow the Pirates to land a significant return. Keller is amidst the best season of his career. He owns a personal-low 3.53 earned run average in 125 innings. He’s only striking out 18.7% of batters faced, but he is walking fewer than 6% of opposing hitters. Keller has taken a step forward in handling left-handed hitters after struggling in that regard earlier in his career.
It’s a rock-solid #3 starter profile. Keller has been exceptionally durable and has a six-pitch arsenal that’s headlined by a 94 MPH fastball. The Bucs have reportedly gotten calls from the Yankees, Blue Jays, Cubs and Mets — presumably among others that haven’t been reported. Noah Hiles of The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has suggested the Cubs view Keller as something of a fallback target. The Mets are involved in the rotation market but presently more focused on the bullpen. Toronto and the Yankees still appear strongly involved in the rotation market. Teams like the Giants, Red Sox and Tigers could also pursue controllable starting pitching.
The Pirates are weighing that against the possibility of keeping Keller behind Paul Skenes in the rotation. Top prospect Bubba Chandler should be up before the end of the season. Jared Jones could return midway through the ’26 campaign. That’d be a potentially elite top four if they were all healthy. Pitcher injuries are always a concern, though, and the Pirates have run out unplayable lineups year after year. They’re unlikely to spend their way out of that problem. Even with star shortstop prospect Konnor Griffin coming through the pipeline, there’s not enough hitting talent in the organization.
Trading Keller is probably their best path to acquiring young offensive upside. Pittsburgh should also get a notable return for closer David Bednar, who is under arbitration control for another season after this one. Setup man Dennis Santana has built a decent amount of value as well. The Bucs aren’t expected to move Oneil Cruz unless they’re completely blown away by an offer. None of their impending free agents are going to bring much back.
General manager Ben Cherington was hired over the 2019-20 offseason. The Pirates haven’t come especially close to making the playoffs in that time. They already replaced skipper Derek Shelton earlier in the season. It stands to reason Cherington is motivated to demonstrate a path to the playoffs for the 2026 club. Trading Keller for low minors prospects wouldn’t do much to that end, so it’d make sense for them to demand high minors and/or young MLB talent.
Trading anyone that’s not on an expiring contract should be made by a new GM. The BC era has been beyond brutal
Anything significant is approved by Williams and Cherington. So new gm won’t help much. More likely to be worse trader than Cherington. Trading expiring talent for young talent is easiest thing to do. It’s just taking bids. Cherington wanted to trade Reynolds Bednar at peak value and wasn’t allowed. If those players are good today Cherington won’t be going anywhere. Look what could have been but you didn’t allow it to happen.
Cherington has the best prospect in baseball and took him 9th. Makes you think before you fire him. And he just got the best player in draft this year at 6. Drafted best player 3 years in a row.
I would have fired Cherington for not firing Shelton and fired Williams for not firing Cherington. And I believe the team with the cheapest payroll needs the bestest gm. Cherington would be find for some teams not Pittsburgh. Nutting though is more loyal and risk averse.
Pirates have to find out how to run a team smart, they don’t have to be as smart as the rays but they can at least sign the right veterans and be like the athletics whenever they are good
Have to be smarter than Rays. Pirates don’t have Rays development. Pirates bottom in development. Pirates need an incredible gm and they passed on him and got Cherington.
I tend to agree the problem/s lie more with Nutting than BC. Hard to build a winner and develop when your owner won’t spend on the infrastructure to do so. It’s not cheap to add 2x the amount of coaches, pitching lab, hitting lab with all the technology. And regarding signing the right veterans, not only does Nutting not enable BC to spend to get said vets, they likely have to pay 150% more than any competitive, larger market to attract the free agents.
Nutting is the easy target. And he’s a cheapass SOB, but development is the bigger issue and that falls on the GM and his hires.
Valid, yet you still can’t win if Bob won’t sign any FAs to a multi year deal. You can’t build a championship team using only prospects and cheap one year free agents
Fans wanted Santander Profar Conforto and Nutting failed to spend to get them.
How do you know he doesn’t? Every report out there says they spend too much on that. The Pirates analytics department is huge. Cherington was authorized to spend more money last offseason and he spend it on analytics and coaching. They brought in Brent Strom to be an assistant pitching coach. That has paid off. Their pitching development is fantastic. Their hitting development is horrible. They spend as much as any team on coach and development. They just suck at it.
The funny thing is that none of them would’ve helped. They’ve all been even worse than Pham this year.
The Pirates are committed to trading him to save money.
If this is true, “Pirates remain unsure of whether to trade Keller,” it certainly explains a lot about their internal operations.
I agree with you though, imho it is posturing for the best available deal to save Nutting money.
Why would any person in authority publicly state player A is going to be traded? Never give up leverage by stating someone is or has to be traded.
They won’t save $. Payroll will be similar next year. Nutting has to spend a certain amount and will do so even though Pittsburgh is a historically bad baseball city.
You’re historically a moron so there’s that to take into account
How old miserable pathetic do you have to be to type that out. You think it’s clever or funny?l. It’s not. Lighten up and enjoy life. I’m sure you can find something more fulfilling than name calling.
Dream (AI GM) will forget more about baseball than you will ever know, DerekBell.
Wrong
Richard?
probably not, Richard would have mentioned that Pittsburgh isn’t a good baseball town because of attendance figures
True
I mute trolls. G’bye.
AI- I knew you were Richard J all along.
You changed your pen name once he cropped up.
Who will be the next highest paid player on the roster if Keller is gone? If they trade him then their payroll will go down to John fisher levels of payroll
Reynolds makes I dunno 12m? Maybe as high as 14m but 12 sounds right. Next Hayes at 7m. Then Cutch at 5. IKF Bednar make more but they will be and decent odds will be traded. Bednar would get 8 9 likely next year.
Keller Reynolds Hayes only players extended on roster.
They could theoretically trade those 3 guys on top of bednar or Cruz and get all minor leaguers in return which is insane to think about
If I could get fair value I would trade everyone except Skenes and maybe Cruz Keller.
It’s a culture of losing. Roster full of just around average guys. Not completely full or they would be better. You could have replaced Reynolds with any of 4 free agents for 5m or less and been better. One of those is Pham. Look at Hayes stats. I’d rather have the $ and avoid the bad back risk. IKF gone anyways. Frazier already gone. Horwitz is ok but McMahon Naylor better for reasonable trades. Bart just a guy. Davis can’t hit. Heaney is gone. Just sign another Heaney next year. They have better options ready that Falter. I’m keeping the kids and probably Keller Cruz. But anything else is gone and replaceable.
The Bucs yesterday announced a. Reynolds Bobble Head giveaway for a game in September.
Probably with the knowledge that he won’t be traded
Nutting will reinvest back into the team 🙄
Seriously keep Keller and trade Chandler
What are they gonna say? We will take a bad offer if its the best one because Nutting is a cheapskate and were desperate for payroll space to get a hitter or 2? Of course this has to be their position.
I doubt they take the money saved and actually spend it later.
Yeah, maybe not, but we know 100% Nutting isnt allowing Keller to stay and paying up for even a pillow contract on top of that.
Seems to me their only chance is to move Keller/Bednar for a few MLB ready position prospects that could contribute next year, and add a vet bat on a bounce back deal to raise the offensive floor.
Their team is gonna suck either way. I really think they should trade Skenes. Griffin is the new number 1 prospect but he won’t be ready for a couple years most likely. Trading Skenes could fill 5 holes on the roster and the team would actually be better for it.
Thankfully your opinion doesn’t matter King of Cards
Has nothing to do with payroll. Will the Pirates have a 16m less payroll next year or will it be similar? It’s either pay Keller or pay someone else. It’s just they have pitching depth but absolutely nothing for hitting.
If they trade him you think they go out and spend that money in free agency? I doubt it.
You never know. If they roll out a 70 million payroll next year I was wrong. Be a bold move to lower payroll 15 20 million whatever he will make when you have Skenes.
I think Bednar Santana have higher likely hood of being traded.
IKF Pham almost certain.
Will they not replace those salaries as well on payroll?
Just baseball moves that every team does and payroll will be similar next year.
Tommy Boy quote
“I Knew it”
Watched that for the first time in a long time the other day
Avengers Endgame Quote, too.
Don’t expect any significant moves. They will trade the expiring contracts like usual. Probably trade IKF, Heaney and company for pitching prospects. This team will look very similar next year. Sign another veteran lefty and OF in the off season and try Triolo at SS. Prepare to be disappointed again Pirates fans.
Bryan reynolds is a dark horse trade candidate because even though he isn’t that good this year teams still probably would want him
I would expect the braves as a fit but this is just speculation
It’s the years involved with BRey’s contract, not necessarily the monies involved
Disappointment is an annual event with this franchise
“The Pirates have generally been expected to deal him to clear payroll space and bring back controllable hitting talent. While that’s seemingly the likeliest outcome”
Not true and never should have been expected. If a fantastic makes too much sense offer emerges sure he will be traded. That just isn’t probable.
Is Cherington on hot seat? If yes then why trade Keller. Keller makes them better in 2026 unless that unicorn Goldilocks offer happens. Trying to keep your job you want Keller. And if they trade Keller why fire Cherington? What’s the new gm going to do? It would be Cheringtons team until it’s time to trade Skenes.
Keller – keeping Keller that is – does make them better in ‘26 in a sense. But Keller with no offensive support does nothing. Last night excellent pitching resulted in 1 hit in 11 innings and a 1-0 loss. The only currency the Pirates have is pitching and if they are not able to trade some of that for offense they will continue to lose. And, apart from Keller their pitching is cheap right now. When it becomes expensive the pitching will be traded or walk away.
Is the Keller return going to fix the offense? After 6 years on the job the Keller trade is going to be Cheringtons 1st trade that gets a good hitter? I wouldn’t bet on it but sure it could happen. I wouldn’t trust Cherington to do it if I was Nutting. Nutting doesn’t have a clue though.
that’s not entirely true, Nutting has a great clue of how much money he’s getting from the duped fans who attend games at PNC Park
Yeah, a lot less than the money he’s getting from the other MLB teams
it all adds up
How much surplus value does Keller really have? He’s owed a lot of money. I agree hes a rock solid number 3. Thats a lot of money for a good number 3 starter. I suppose he has some surplus value but I dont think its a lot at all.
He’ll make 16m or so and he’s worth 26m or so. Easily. He would get multiple top 100 prospects or a top 50.
They better be shooting for top 50 or don’t trade him. I’d be ok with Owen Cassie or Justin Crawford. Alex Freeland maybe. Or go with controllable pro like Abreu or Dominguez.
Would you trade Keller for Canario? Maybe a bit of exaggerating but maybe not. Look at Cassie strike outs. Look at Pirates strike outs. I see a problem with player and a team that has no idea how to fix it. Look at Cassie stats this year and Canario in Cubs AAA last year. I’ll take Cassie as the better prospect and one who hasn’t had MLB time. Do I trade Keller for him absolutely not. I could get 2 players like Cassie. Not a pitcher. Not a SS. Not a catcher. Not even a CF likely or at least a good one. So he has to make it with his bat and he doesn’t put his bat on ball enough so needs to walk at a high amount and hit 30 hrs which he can possibly do.
Difference between top 10 15 to top 30 40 is drastic vs top 30 40 to 70 80. I have a sure thing in Keller and 3 more years. I want more of a sure thing prospect or more prospects to increase my chances of hitting on.
When the prospect I trade for Keller fails I want to say well no such thing as a for sure thing. Vs well the strike outs were a concern.
Crawford does have strike out issues. Doesn’t have power. I’d rather bet on more to come power with a guy with better cf odds who doesn’t K. Rather just get 2 slightly lesser guys. Rather just keep Keller unless I get it offer that doesn’t make my question it. I don’t want a obvious red flag problem.
For 2 million Tauchman has a 800 something ops. 5 million gets you Heaney. Not finding a Keller for 2m. Pitching more important harder to get.
Bucco-Crawford hits a lot of ground balls and has no power.
If he was really good he would have been starting for the Phillies long before now.
He is Brandon Marsh part deaux.
Who knows what prospects pan out and which don’t. All I’m saying is they need to cash in some pitching for hitting and Keller is their top trade chip to do that other than Skenes or maybe Chandler. Keeping Keller does nothing for the hitting. And you know they aren’t getting anyone in free agency. Personally I don’t see them trading Keller at all but if they do it better be for a someone better than Tommy Pham.
it’s possible that Cherington has tried to trade Keller but his asking price was too much
He is owed just over $55 million over the next 3 years. That really isn’t much for a quality starting pitcher anymore. Last off season, you had Luis Severino sign for nearly $70 million over the same amount of time, Yusei Kikuchi sign for about $63.5 million for 3 years, with Frankie Montas agreeing to a two-year/$34 million deal, and Matt Boyd signing for two years at $29 million. Given that Keller is pretty much a guarenteed 30-32 start, 100-110 ERA+ pitcher, three years at about $55.7 million is a bargain.
But he ain’t scoring runs. Sounds like all you guys want to just keep the same team we got. It’s not working. If you think IKF, Heaney, Pham, and Ferguson are bring back anyone better then Nick Yorke you will be disappointed.
the same Nick Yorke that Ben traded Priester for?
Another failed trade by the worthless GM
I think we who are fine with keeping Keller realize preventing runs is the same as scoring runs. Pen is worn down but that’s ok Mitch is starting today so 6 innings guarantee. He’s a likable guy. A leader.
I’m all for trading Keller for a outfield bat just not the ones you suggested. Any prospect can fail. I just don’t want to trade Keller for one who has already failed. Those 2 have major red flags.
Teams probably don’t want to trade prospects without issues for Keller why I don’t have high odds of him being traded. Maybe they could package him with another player to get that better bat?
Keller for a top 20 prospect gets a A. Keller for Cassie Crawford alone D at best..
Multi year free agent stink. I said above remember when Pirates fans wanted Santander Profar Conforto? Yikes. I much prefer 1 year Grichuk Tauchman Hays.
Pirates signed Russell Martin and Nutting owned the team. Cutch Marte Polanco. Hey Hayes Reynolds! He’ll spend some money so there’s no reason to rule out free agency. Tauchman was 2 million though so no reason to spend $.
Cassie and a bit extra I can get on board with. I really like Cassie. I just don’t like Pirates coaching get the most of him. They never got the most out of Hayes Cruz. Remember Suwinski 2023. Never got Jack back. Hayes did go on nice run when he went with Altoona coach. Rowdys childhood coach helped him. Maybe Cassie can build his own hitting facility like Gonzales and teach himself.
A good ? Imo is if the Cubs don’t sign Tucker they are going to need Cassie. And if having Cassie is more valuable than Keller why would a winning team trade him for Keller? Oh they don’t care about $ they want a championship this year. Future doesn’t matter. Ok then trade for another pitcher that won’t cost Cassie. If you believe Cassie is the impact bat the Pirates need the Cubs wouldn’t trade him. Now they could be wrong but it’s a red flag. All comes back to pirates development. Other teams I would trade Keller for Cassie.
After having more time to think about it I am ok trading for Cassie hopefully getting a additional decent piece. But still good with just keeping Keller.
I think a Bednar or Santana with IKF could get a interesting hitting prospect. Throw in a prospect of our own and it could be a real interesting one.
I can agree with most of that. I’ve always thought they got Keller on a good deal. He is solid for a mid rotation starter. I’m also fine with them keeping him if they don’t get a solid return. I just feel like they need to even the roster out a bit and can do that with him.
If all goes well and everyone stays healthy next year they should have Skenes, Keller, Falter, Burrows, Jones, Oviedo, and Chandler as viable starters with Barco and Harrington knocking at the door. Not saying stockpiling pitching is a bad thing. There will be injuries and/or struggles to deal with. But again I don’t see them signing an impact bat in the off season. They are gonna have to trade one of the better ones to get some quality hitters.
I would have said the opposite about the Pirates as a team. A normal team I would not trade Keller, but with the spending limitations and lack of hitting prospects I feel like they need to trade him. And I’m all for packaging with others for a better prospect than Caissie or Crawford but I don’t see them getting a top 10-15 and there isn’t many in between 15-35 that fit the Pirates needs. Also keeping in mind teams that would have interest in Keller.
I don’t like Crawford but you sold me on Cassie. I’d be fine with it.
Just when you think you have enough pitching you don’t. Already I don’t know what Oviedo will be like. Jones is still a small man and now coming off surgery. Harrington I never thought much of. Bubba Barco just won’t go from minors to show and give you 200 innings. It’s a promising rotation until someone gets hurt or doesn’t perform. On paper they can afford to trade Keller. I’m for it. Also for keeping him. Fine with either.
in all fairness, Haines messed with Jack’s swing last year trying to make him more of a contact hitter
Their entire team has produced 16.5 wins and Skens accounts for 5.3 of them. The position player with the highest WAR is a soon to be free agent utility guy. This team is a dumpster fire.
Is there a pool on when the Pirates trade Skenes?
I’ll take January 17, 2028.
I think they trade him right when his arb years start and he starts to get expensive
His trade value will still be high and they can get off his potentially high salary
It’s so sad that the pirates have a 0% chance to resign him
What date are you picking?
Skenes will have a ROY and three top 3 CY finishes when he hits arbitration. No way the Pirates pay whatever his ARB 1 salary is.
His marketing power alone us worth his Arb 1 they will gladly pay it and even Arb 2. Arb 3 will be painful for them but they would do it but he will be traded because it would be more painful to let him walk away without getting a trade return.
If they had a better gm they could have given him a taste of having a real manager and winning. Bought 2 free agent years so he would be set set for life.
They’ll hold onto him til he has 2 arb years left, into the 27 season. But he’ll end up needing Tommy John at the end of that season, leaving him missing one of his final arb years
Pirates will be left taking less than they could have gotten afterward, either before he returns or due to him just being a rental after he does return & proves himself healthy
This is the Pirates Way
There is also a chance they Barry bonds it and let him walk in FA
The only thing the Pirates aren’t committed to is winning. Sell the team and bring back the striped flat tops. Pittsburgh deserves better.
Kent Tekulve approves this message!
Must have used up all their prepaid minutes on their cellphone plan to make a trade. Might want to switch to Tello to continue the trade talks.
His contract is a bargain compared to the other contracts that don’t pay their way. The only smart contract the Pirates made so I hope they keep him.
If they don’t get a great package they should keep him.
Hayes is the one guy they should move and then extend Cruz
I wouldn’t extend Cruz. No reason to just yet. They extended Hayes and BRey and that money is already sunk
In today’s MLB, mid rotation SP is devalued, while quality bats are much more in demand. Making a deal for Keller much less likely this summer.
What Pirates are saying is the offers for Keller aren’t good enough to move him. Maybe that will change in next few days, but more likely after the season when the pool of trade partners increases.
I would not trade him. Other, less valuable players and prospects may bring some offense without destroying the starting pitching staff.
“Pirates Not Committed”
Everything beyond that phrase is just filler
Pirates leaked this info out to see if they can get someone to overpay for him.
Yeah, they’re not committed to anything other than reaping the greatest profits as possible with as little investment as possible
It’s a pathetic franchise, led by a carpetbagging owner, the Mister Potter of our Bedford Falls
It’s an abject joke.
If you wanted to kill a fanbase, this is how you’d do it. Spend like the miser you are, treat fans like cattle
Keller *should* go. As should everyone else. Problem is, you need a visionary GM. You need good player development staff
Does anyone believe in Cherington’s ability to get equal value in trades? Does anyone think young players will progress on the Pirates farm?
It needs to be all burned down to start over again.
The perpetual rebuild.
Rebuild has become an expected feature under this management system, everyone is replaced except the people who really need to be sent into oblivion.
Namely Ben Cherington who wouldn’t know position player talent even if they fell into his lap wrapped in gold medals
Isn’t it pretty amazing that the GM talent pool in MLB is so thin and constantly gets re-cycled by teams……Cashman should have been fired seasons ago…Cherrington failed pretty miserably up in Beantown yet is back again in Pitt with fans in both cities calling for his head…..wow.
Does anyone believe in Cherington’s ability to get equal value in trades?
Absolutely. I will go one better and say he can get surplus value. Teams actually gave international $ for Hedges Dyson. Old washed up worn down Rich Hill and fat hurt Choi got a very high upside lottery ticket. Santana got a nice lottery ticket a guy the Brewers who are smart yes paid over a million to sign. The less Cherington has to work with the better the return.
Marte strong return. Musgrove not bad, A 5 tool outfielder who the Padres gave a record bonus to. Problem is development. Doesn’t matter who you get if you can’t develope them.
And it’s not like we had Max Scherzer Trea Turner Juan Soto to trade.
If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were ghost writing as the guy who constantly writes here to blame everything on fans and not Nutting. He has a similar way of presenting snippets that bolster his ideas
Problem here is, Cherington has missed badly on a number of other trades. Or is it that again, they just never developed on the Pirates farm?
I don’t expect anyone on the roster save for Skenes would bring back the top tier of prospects. And if that’s the case, I hope the scouts are as good as you say
What trades has he missed on? I believe I have a counter to anyone you name. In hindsight did sime not work out? Absolutely. Where some just even trades or even a few slight losses? Absolutely. But I am not being a smart as I can’t think of a trade he lost.
“Not committed” is trade season speak for he’s yours, just give us what we’re asking for. What’s that? A top prospect or 2 ready to help the Pirates offense now.
The Pirates should be open to offers on any player to assess market value and potential returns. I would actively shop Bednar, Pham, Cruz, IKF, and other rentals to maximize short-term trade value. Meanwhile, Keller, Reynolds, Davis, and Hayes should be kept as core pieces, with efforts made to extend Santana and Falter, who provide stability and upside. This approach balances long-term development with smart asset management.
Kept as core piece? Have you seen hiw this core has done? Guy with bad back who can’t hit is core piece? #4 starter core piece? 30 something outfielder who is a awful outfielder who no longer hits is core piece? A catcher who can’t hit is core piece?
Shopping actively is last thing you want to do. It is after all a negotiation. Teams know you are a seller. They will come to you. You have what they want.
There’s one core piece Skenes. Anyone else can be traded. Probably want to keep Cruz. You can keep Keller if the return isn’t right. Everyone else is easily replaceable and should be traded.
Trade Chandler
Yer funny
RIP Matthew Perry
He will be surely be traded but not for top prospects . Probably will get another team’s 15 to 20ish prospect or two . He is a 3rd/4th starter but can get prospects in return. He could also go back to bring an era 4.25 league average pitcher .
He will get top 100 as a weak #2 should
They shouldn’t trade Keller unless blown away! Get rid of Hayes if you can. Trade expiring contracts and be a major league team in the offseason and fill your lineup!
Ferguson, IKF, Pham all are on one year contracts and should get traded, though with Cherington at the helm, if he waits and holds out until the last day before the deadline ends, he might not get anyone major league ready and instead low level prospect in return
Other than Reynolds, Cruz and Bednar Cherington doesn’t have a good track record on trades
Rentals are just guys. They won’t get any good mlb ready talent. Best to trade them for lottery tickets. Real prospects will require Bednar Santana to be traded.
That’s funny.
Ferguson, IKF and Pham together have little value let alone bringing back a major league ready bat
Given Pham’s success recently and the fact IKF is multi dimensional, I tend to disagree with the little value note. No, they’re not gonna bring back more than a couple prospects but they are exactly what teams looking to make a run look for at this time of year
And given their farm, the Pirates need to restock with guys looked at as having “potential”
Right my point exactly. Best they will get is low level prospects. My response was to getting ML ready bats. Not going to happen for any of those 3.
Cherington has got these types for 5 years. So year 6 he finally develops one? Will be a interesting 40+ 45 guy. Cherington will do well. And that prospect is never heard from again. Or it could be his first success.
I agree but the upcoming free agent class is quite weak. Naylor and Suarez are the two big bats but don’t see them spending for them. O’Hearn will also be expensive. They’d have to sign a risky breakout guy like Grisham/Laureano, or someone like Lane Thomas, Kepler, or Wade Jr hoping for a miracle bounceback.
Bob will only sign one year deals. That leaves the Bucs with the Phams, Fraziers, Taylors and Grandals of the baseball world
Face it their thinking is we have our 1b Horwitz. If Hayes isn’t traded we got 3b. Outfield will be whoever the 3rd least appealing option is. Hoping for a bounce back guy seems right.
the Bucs were hoping that the Yankees would trade for Hayes but now that they traded for McMahon it’s unlikely that he will go anywhere unless the Bucs agree to pick up a portion of his contract, which is also unlikely
It’s amazing the Pirates have any fans. S*** organization top to bottom.
Greg Brown is pretty good. Other than that, sure.
Pirates talent development isn’t bad but they will need ownership willing to spend $35-40 million per year per player for 2 star players. If tickets and media viewership revenue isn’t enough to do then pirates ownership will have to look at alternatives like new mixed use resort style developments including convention centers and hotels and luxury housing in order to get that revenue. Otherwise the pirates will always be a feeder team for real contenders
Hmmmmm? Last position player developed by Pittsburgh? Don’t say oneil Cruz. He’s emblematic of their developmental failures.
KeBryan Hayes? Jack Suwinski? Henry Davis? Endy Rodriguez? Other than some SPs, they’re terrible at developing players.
O’Neil Cruz
Tell me how he’s developed since he got here again. Fielding? Nope. Base running? Nope. Adopting the idea of constant hustle? Uh, no
Hitting? How? Explain
He always had the ability to hit a homer. Sure. But unless exit velocities are your thing, he still is putty in the hands of good pitchers. Doesn’t understand zones, pitch counts, situational strategies, and still has a hard time picking up spin pitches that don’t hover dead red
half the time Cruz doesn’t know how many outs there are.
He pays very little attention to the game when he’s either batting or on base
Even if we say Oneil, he’s one player out of how many they’ve come up short on? Suwinski breaksout with 26 homers and an OPS of nearly .800, then can’t hit. Henry Davis goes from a bat first catcher to a glove-first catcher. Hayes and Rodriguez have been held back by injury, but many others, like Jared Triolo, Ji Hwan Bae, Liover Peguero, Edward Olivares, and Connor Joe just lose their ability to hit when they get called to the Major Leagues. Sure. none of those players were expected to be stars, but the fact the Pirates can’t find at least one solid hitter among them for more than 1 year is a reflection on their ability to develop hitting.
Maybe they need Prevagen to remember how to hit?
Nick Gonzalez was drafted and developed by this organization
Yes. Nick Gonzales. They used the 7th pick to get a 2b not a ss cf c with 4 hrs and a hair over 700 ops. It’s something but not something to be celebrated. And he claimed to develop himself. Didn’t give Pirates any credit.
Gonzalez missed the first two months of the season after getting injured during the first game of the season
Right and money grows on trees in Pittsburgh.
Teams such as Pittsburgh cannot afford 35-40 million per year contracts. Yes, the one year payment is affordable, but those contracts are rarely one or two years. Big contracts for big bats tend to be multi years extending into the players expected decline. Teams such as the Pirates cannot afford to pay for those declining years. Its the years that small market teams cannot risk, not a one year salary.
Also, all contracts are a risk. If a small market team gives out a large contract, they cannot afford for the player to turn out to be a bust, it greatly limits, even eliminates the teams options for years. See the Rockies and their Kris Bryant contract. $27 million a year for someone batting .154 and who hasn’t played more than eighty games in a season for the first four years of the contract.
As for your mixed used revenue, Pittsburgh has a convention center almost within spitting distant of PNC. Nutting has invested in the area around PNC to “improve” the fan experience, much to the ire of many posters on this site.
Small market teams cannot use the same strategy as big market teams. They have to think more creatively and accept that teams with deep pockets will poach the talent they develop when that talent hits free agency. Develop talent, use it while you can, be creative annd move on. Unfortunately, creativity is a rare commodity today in baseball and on this website.
You forget that he adopted a palace that was built on taxpayer money. While the idea of civic responsibility may be an antiquated dog whistle to some, the ire you note comes in the idea that while he refuses to invest in the personnel for this franchise, he sure is happy to build the area around the stadium to further line his pockets
Moreover, the small market argument is used to death and pales when one looks at Milwaukee.
Or what TB has done. Or Cleveland. Or Detroit. Or recently, KC. No big signings. Players poached by the large markets. Sure
But the difference comes in ownership
I grant that the Pirates have long embraced the TB blueprint and it worked to some degree under Huntington.
As we know, that GM went off script and traded the young future stars for guys that could get them a WC berth, and the franchise has foundered since.
The question remains, what do you do when you’ve adopted the idea of rebuild, and none of your kids evolves to make an impact? In Cherington’s way of thinking it apparently comes down to signing bottom wrung patchwork guys that do little to augment the stagnating young players here who just aren’t cutting it
I’m doubtful any real GM would examine what’s gone on here both last season and this one and decide anyone is not available. I’m doubtful he’d keep his player development staff, as well
I don’t know any regular here who wants the Pirates to suddenly go after top free agents. No one is under any illusions. But small market teams can at least compete if from ownership to front office, that’s the goal
It’s simply not the case under Nutting
How much evidence does one need to understand that all of the moves this franchise makes come under the umbrella of accruing more profits?
Fans don’t have the stomach for the gm that Pittsburgh needs. Remember years ago I recommended trading Reynolds Bednar? No one liked that idea. Nutting doesn’t have the stomach for it either because he didn’t let Cherington do it.
You think Milwaukee fans were happy they traded Burnes? Remember how upset they were when they traded their closer Hader? Heck even the locker room was upset. You think their fans happy now?
If you want to be Milwaukee Tampa you have to be them. Go to world series and trade CY young Snell.
Yes. Agree with all of that. And you’ve described trades that would be PR problems. Bednar is local. Reynolds, a favorite.
And despite the PR train wreck that the Pirates have managed this year—-the Bucco bricks disaster, removal of Clemente display, the bobblehead atrocities lol—their PR machine attempts to identify hot points with Pittsburghers that will draw fans.
You know. We love local kids who play here. Love fireworks. Love pierogies racing. Love the beauty of the park. And apparently love exit velocities.
Winning baseball? Who cares?
I’m going out back to have a good cry. I guess the analytics guru has muted me.
I read yesterday that Nutting isn’t convinced he will bring both Williams and Ben back next season even though they both are under contract for the next two years
He’s adept at saying nothing. I especially enjoy his annual interviews from Bradenton, when he discusses losing and how it’s unacceptable.
Rodney Dangerfield. George Carlin. Bob Nutting. Guys who always bring me laughs
He knows he’s under fire here and every columnist and talk host is criticizing his methods, so now he’s on the interview circuit saying all the things his people think fans want to hear.
If only he’d said he can’t commit to bringing himself back
You should stop reading unless it’s for entertainment and not news. Who would Nutting be sharing these private thoughts with? Why haven’t they been fired for betraying him by leaking it to the media?
It’s just someone pretending to have sources. If they had that kind of source certainly they will be breaking some of not all of the upcoming trades right? Yet it will be the same guys Passan Heyman Rosenthal Murray etc.
Agreed. You’re right. Journalism has been replaced by public relations. And if one doesn’t like the attempt at digging for facts, hey, we’ll just sue them. What a sorry era this is. Journalism was all about “comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable”
The era of being held accountable is gone
It’s comical at this point. Ridiculous. I didn’t give humans much credit. They used to trust the news and would eat up everything fed to them. Now many have seen the cry wolf too many times and aren’t falling for it. It’s more cheerleaders than reporters. They cheer and make up stuff to push their agenda. I’m not a fan of a certain person but he did make the term fake news famous and it’s awakened a lot of people.
They trusted professionalism. Murrow. Cronkite. Sevareid. Mike Wallace. Others from that era. It was a noble profession
But like everything else, big money corrupts everything. Billionaire owners of media outlets that care little about fact and more about shaping opinion.
I don’t care the political party or really, what the subject is, accountability is essential. Even if it’s just Joe’s Garage charging over $500 to tow cars.
Sad times.
I watch less news than ever. They’ve won.
I just focus on my little corner of the outback
Yeah I don’t care either. And companies are awful. Customer service awful. Few exceptions. AI customer service is awful though. Spam calls should be banned and come with torture penalty.
I don’t really trust any of the networks or print.
They are in it for money and whatever they think sells.
There is no non biased professionalism that I sense in any of them.
They are a key to a well informed society but have proven to be lacking too many times in this century.
You know, I get that. One of my degrees is in Journalism and truly, what I see now defies everything I was taught back in the horse and buggy days
The problem is the general intelligence of the populace and its laziness/apathy where comprehension of everything from laws to morality are concerned. The bias you write of has won the era. No matter the party, no matter the crime, it can be whitewashed via media
I don’t want to proselytize but if a society is clueless about basic tenets of government, what’s legal and what’s not, and the ability of big money to bully the little guy, just how does it survive?
It survives if it has moral leaders who can actually further society by actions and knowledge and who are not in it for themselves.
It survives because the education process is not skewed by malcontents who have no common sense.
It survives when everyone follows what JFK said in his inaugural address.
Some countries in this world do not have the basics.Others have too much abundance and it has bred apathy and a lack of work ethic.
One must have faith that the American people have the wherewithal to generally move forward even with all of the knuckleheads in this great Country.
I always liked the poems Desiderata and the one by Rudyard Kipling about his son.
They should be staples in high school courses.
Your realize Nutting is one of the top 10 richest owners in MLB? No one is saying the Pirates should go all Yankee, Dodger or Philly, but they should be higher than Cleveland, Miami, Tampa and Minnesota and KC in spending.
Yes. He comes in tied at number 18 on the Yahoo list for MLB owners. Regardless, if you own a MLB team you aren’t at the pawn shop trying to pawn a tube TV.
Nutting paid $97 million dollars in 1997 for this franchise.
It’s valued at $1.2 billion dollars now
They can . They choose not to.
If we try to play like the Yankees in here, we will lose to the Yankees out there
Pirates not committed. Just stop right there. Organizational malfeasance.
He does fit their hypothetical window, but I’d trade him for similarly skilled position players
Who would those be?
I don’t trust this GM to make this trade or one of Bednar or even Santana. That said, how else is Pittsburgh going to get needed bats? They aren’t investing it for free agency to acquire good bats that are needed to help out the pitching. The rotation next year without Keller could be pretty darn good with Chandler in there and the emergence of Burrows, Jones returning mid season and possibly Oviedo. I still think Ashcraft will be in the pen with who will be dealt. You will ruin another year of Skenes on the roster without supplementing the offense.. I don’t see anything changing if they keep Keller. What’s the point?
Mike Tauchman for 2 million seemed doable even for Nutting. Pham cost 4 and has been good ever since the season has been over.
No. He got new glasses. He has a vision problem. You’d think it would have occurred to someone when pitchers were throwing 3 balls at once
I know
not glasses new contacts
Given his eye situation, you have to be amazed he can even play at this level
I looked it up. Since June 20th .378 average. Something impressive like that.
Highest in the National League
Trading Keller is a horrible decision if you ask me. The whole premise of moving him is to get a bat, but there are 2 glaring issues.
1. This is trying to solve a problem by creating another problem. Keller is a very reliable pitcher. Only ten pitchers since 2022 have 650+ IP, an ERA+ of 100 or better, and a sub-4.00 FIP. Keller is one of them. Sure, I like some of the Pirates’ pitching prospects like Bubba Chandler and Hunter Barco, but it is far from a guarentee they can be as durable as Keller is.
2. This assumes Ben Cherington can find a good hitter. He has had nearly 5 full MLB seasons as the Pirates’ general manager. His best position player acquisition by fWAR via trade is Jack Suwinski at +2.2. The whole reason the Pirates are in this mess is because BC can’t find, or at least develop, hitting after 5 years. Why should he spearhead trying to trade Keller for hitting?
He’s a controllable asset at much too steep a price for the pirates to hold onto. He’s going to be dealt sooner than later. If there’s a package with at least 2 legitimate bats and a prospect you absolutely have to pull the trigger. He’s always going to be the 3rd or 4th best pitcher in any rotation and he will help other teams make a playoff run. There’s nothing wrong with being a middle of the rotation guy but this team needs controllable bats more than Keller.
That package doesn’t exist. The package at best is a underachiever spare part like Duran. It’s likely a top 50 but not top 20 prospect or 2 top 100.
Then they’re gonna have to look at the younger prospects, as I suspect
Opposing GMs aren’t stupid. They know the Pirates are in dire straits. And they know that amassing young players is one thing, dumping salary as they do, another
I’m still waiting for those awful Cherington trades. The Bell one seems to be lackluster but he was awful of late. Most important he wasn’t a 1b. He was a dh who they put at 1b. It was during health crisis when trade returns were down. Yean was a heck of a lottery ticket. High ceiling. Crowe heck of a change up. Remember that period no one could hit it and he would do his lil strut around the mound? 2nd round pick.
Fans think Frazier was something special because he had that lucky fake batting average which got him to all star game. GMs are fooled as easily. Got Jack who as a platoon hit nearly 30 hrs. Nothing wrong with that one.
Fans also think because Stallings won a gold glove he had incredible value. And just because Rodriguez was using steroids and sticky stuff and the Pirates placed him at closer that he was some great reliever. Again GMs not fooled.
I think your bottom line is that when you trade scrap, you get scrap in return. But at the same time, if you’re gonna trade a front liner with a high salary that you want the other guy to take over, you’re gonna get prospects in return , especially if the guy you’re trading isn’t young anymore
Pretty much. To Cherington credit when trading scrap he didn’t trade for near MLB ready scrap like some gms do. He traded for young undeveloped high ceiling. Or former 1st round talents that have been failed to develop. And with trying to tank that was the strategy. Now trying to contend he traded for the MLB ready scrap which I am not a fan of like Cook Yorke guy from Frazier trade. I’d rather get the A ball kid they are never going to develop. 1 because if you get enough of them you are going to hit on one eventually. 2 if you are trading for mlb players these are the prospects other teams are going to want.
You could sign Tauchman if you had a good gm. Trade for Horwitz Joe Falter. Sign a Heaney Quintana. But to get a difference maker you need to find and develop it yourself.
Priester for Nick Yorke
Always seemed to me that Priester’s issues were in his head. Throw two solid innings, give up a hit or two, maybe a walk, and watch him cave in. Consistent pattern
In fact, a lot of guys found themselves when they left here. Glasnow. Morton. Even Cole became a more complete pitcher
Guess I can’t fault the GM for trading Priester. Where was he gonna fit in the pecking order?
Where you guys not around when I discovered and shared why Priester is improved. Giddy up giddy up 409. Cherington uses ZERO analytics. Brewers who do use analytics Priester was easiest player they ever fixed. Kindergarten level analytics was all that was needed.
You’re likely right
Or did some wily old pitching coach work on his head, his approach to hitters?
We’ve all seen what subpar coaches can do
Or can’t
Conversejy, I’ve seen how good coaches can turn around players, and pitchers in particular
Searage was that kind of guy. Mazzone in Atlanta.
With Pirates he threw 4 seam 13.6 or something percent of time. Teams hit his 4 seam with a .409 batting average.
How many times has he thrown it as a Brewer? I’ll give you 1 guess.
I’m gonna say very little. 20%?
Zero
I dunno, Dream. I had many pitchers under my tutelage during my time in the game. The first question I’d ask was, “So what pitches do you throw?”
Their answers always got my standard reply:
“Well, you’re gonna have to prove it to me that you can throw them effectively before they ever get called in a game”
Don’t know why that’s so hard. Sheesh
Pirates don’t follow that. 409 batting average and they just had Priester keep throwing it.
That may be true about Priester but the Pirates just had their 13 th shutout which is second in the NL so they must be doing something right.
You can’t blame their pitching staff, that’s for sure
Priester may have had only two reliable pitches for strikes with the Pirates and maybe had to throw it in order to not walk everybody.
Did something right alright. They stunk for years and ended up with number 1 pick the year Skenes was in draft. And Huntington left them Keller. And Horwitz Gonzales IKF Hayes Davis Frazier Canario Pham until June 22 can’t hit but they are good defensively.
What frustrates me is that for short stretches they look like they can beat anybody and then for stretches they cannot beat anybody.
I do think that they are more fundamentally sound than under Shelton.
But they only have three or four real hitters and if even one is having a bad month or year they do not have the rest of the lineup who can make up for it,
I hope they keep Keller, but the needs are glaring and the return from a Keller trade can address those needs in a meaningful way