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Royals, Jordan Groshans Agree To Minor League Deal

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The Royals are adding corner infielder Jordan Groshans on a minor league deal, reports Robert Murray of FanSided (X link). The CAA client spent this year in the upper minors between the Yankees and A’s.

Groshans, 25, is a former first-round pick of the Blue Jays. He appeared among Baseball America’s Top 100 prospects in each season from 2019-21 but has yet to carve out much of an MLB role. Toronto dealt him to the Marlins before he reached the big leagues. Groshans appeared in the majors with Miami in 2022. He played in 17 games, hitting .262/.308/.312 across 65 plate appearances.

That’s the extent of his major league experience. Groshans’ bat has stalled in the minors over the past couple seasons. He hit .244/.339/.330 with Miami’s Triple-A affiliate in 2023. The Marlins lost him to the Yankees via waivers last offseason. New York successfully ran him through waivers in Spring Training. Groshans didn’t perform well at either of the top two minor league levels in the Yankees’ system. New York traded him to the A’s in June for third baseman J.D. Davis.

That swap turned out to be inconsequential for both teams. Davis hit .105 in seven games as a Yankee before being released. The A’s assigned Groshans to Double-A Midland. He hit .239/.312/.352 in 51 contests and elected minor league free agency at the end of the year. The righty-hitting infielder finished the ’24 campaign with a combined .235/.311/.318 line across 383 plate appearances between the two organizations.

Groshans’ former prospect status continues to generate some level of minor league interest. He’ll need to take a step forward offensively if he’s to earn an extended big league look. Groshans has shown decent plate discipline but minimal power. He’s a .252/.347/.331 hitter in more than 1000 Triple-A plate appearances.

KBO’s Kiwoom Heroes Post Hyeseong Kim

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10:41pm: The Heroes announced that the posting window will open at 8:00 am Eastern on Thursday. MLB is evidently waiting until tomorrow to formally notify teams about his availability. Kim will have until 5:00 pm Eastern on January 3 to sign (X link via Yoo).

9:17pm: The KBO announced that the Heroes have officially made Kim available via the posting system. The posting went into effect at noon on Wednesday in South Korean time, not at 12:00 pm Eastern as previously reported. According to Jeeho Yoo of Yonhap News (X link), the 30-day signing period will officially begin at 8:00 a.m. Eastern the morning after MLB informs teams of Kim’s posting.

2:30pm: Infielder Hyeseong Kim is expected to be officially posted by the Kiwoom Heroes of the Korea Baseball Organization on Wednesday at noon Eastern/11am Central, per Jon Morosi of MLB Network (X link). Once it’s official, that will start a 30-day window where all MLB clubs can negotiate with Kim and his representatives. If no deal is signed in that time, he will return to the Heroes for the 2025 season. (The NPB posting window has been expanded from 30 days to 45 days but KBO players still have a 30-day time frame.)

Kim, 26 in January, said himself last week that he believed the formal posting process was about a week away. It appears that timeline is holding, so Kim will be officially be available to MLB clubs as of tomorrow. Kim will be considered a “professional” under MLB rules because he is at least 25 years old and has at least six years of experience in a foreign league. As such, he can sign a deal of any length or dollar amount, depending on what MLB clubs are willing to offer. That’s in contrast to someone like Roki Sasaki, who is only 23 years old and will therefore be capped by the international bonus system.

It isn’t likely that Kim will secure a massive deal, but he could still have some interest. He is expected to provide a somewhat similar skillset to his former double play partner Ha-Seong Kim, no relation, as both players are considered sure-handed defenders at multiple spots on the diamond. Hyeseong has mostly played the two middle infield spots, but also with brief stints at third base and in the outfield corners.

Offensively, Hyeseong is a tick below Ha-Seong, however. Hyeseong has slashed .304/.364/.403 in his eight KBO seasons whereas Ha-Seong hit .294/.373/.493 in his seven campaigns in Korea. The batting average and on-base numbers are fairly close but Ha-Seong clearly has the edge in terms of slugging. Hyeseong got to 11 home runs in 2024, a career high for him, whereas Ha-Seong had 19 or more homers in his final six KBO seasons, including 30 in the final year.

Still, even if Hyeseong is a tick below Ha-Seong in the power department, his youth and athleticism should work in his favor. As mentioned, he is considered a strong defender and could be placed at multiple different positions. He has stolen between 20 and 46 bases in each of the past six seasons.

MLBTR predicted he could secure a three-year deal with a $24MM guarantee as part of the annual Top 50 Free Agents post. However, predicting the interest in a player making the move from overseas can be difficult, as players like Jung Hoo Lee and Masataka Yoshida both proved to have much more earning power than was assumed by forecasters.

The Mariners are reportedly interested in Kim but it stands to reason that plenty of others would be in the mix as well, given his versatility. Clubs like the Giants, White Sox, Marlins, Brewers and others are speculative fits. Players like Willy Adames, Ha-Seong Kim, Gleyber Torres and others are also available in the middle infield free agent market. They will be joined by Hyeseong but the 30-day posting window means there will be clarity on his status by the first few days of 2025, at the latest.

In addition to the money going to Kim, a signing club will also have to pay a posting fee to the Heroes, the value of which will depend upon the size of the contract. The fee will be calculated as 20% of the contract’s first $25MM, plus 17.5% of the next $25MM and 15% of any dollars thereafter. Additional earnings, such as performance bonuses/incentives or salaries on option years fall under that purview once they are unlocked or exercised.

Guardians Evaluating Outfield Market

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It has been a quiet start to the offseason for the Guardians. Their only notable moves have been the trade of middle reliever Eli Morgan to the Cubs and the return of backup catcher Austin Hedges on a $4MM free agent deal.

As the Winter Meetings approach, Cleveland’s front office is monitoring the market for a potential outfield acquisition. President of baseball operations Chris Antonetti tells Will Sammon, Katie Woo and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic that the Guardians are open to adding a “complementary player” on the grass.

Steven Kwan is one of the game’s best left fielders. The other two outfield spots are more open. Lane Thomas played a good amount of center field after the Guardians acquired him from Washington in a deadline deal. He’s stretched defensively up the middle. Ideally, Thomas would slot into right field. The Guards don’t have many internal options who could take everyday playing time in center. If they’re to bump Thomas into a corner, they’ll probably need to add a center fielder.

The free agent class at the position is very weak. Harrison Bader is the only player who projects as even a low-end regular. Leody Taveras and Jake Meyers are glove-first options who could be available on the trade market. None of them are going to provide much offense, but they’d upgrade Cleveland’s outfield defense.

The Guardians are also likely to receive some trade calls regarding Thomas. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects Thomas for an $8.3MM salary in his final season of arbitration eligibility. That’s a decent sum for a low-payroll franchise, but the Guardians relinquished a solid prospect return to land Thomas a few months ago. They’d get a lesser package back after he struggled down the stretch (timely postseason home runs aside), and a trade would leave them with two question marks in the outfield.

If the Guardians stick with Thomas in center field, they’d have some combination of Will Brennan, Jhonkensy Noel and Daniel Schneemann in right field. Noel has monster power but strikes out a ton. He’s a better runner than one might expect given his 6’3″, 250-pound frame, but he might be stretched defensively as an everyday outfielder. Neither Brennan nor Schneemann has demonstrated much offensive upside. Johnathan Rodriguez, Angel Martínez and Petey Halpin are all on the 40-man roster but have little to no big league experience.

Top prospect Chase DeLauter could be a midseason upgrade. An Opening Day call would be a longer shot. DeLauter has battled injuries in his minor league career and has only appeared in 42 games above High-A, just six of which have come at the Triple-A level.

There’s a decent amount of depth in the free agent corner outfield class. Michael Conforto, Max Kepler and Alex Verdugo are all potential regulars who are likely to be limited to one or two years. They all hit left-handed, but a righty bat could better fit the search for a complementary player. Brennan and Schneemann each hit from the left side, as does DeLauter. (Noel is a righty.) Randal Grichuk or recent non-tenders Austin Hays and Bryan De La Cruz could occupy short-side platoon roles. They could pair with Brennan or Schneemann early in the season while allowing Stephen Vogt to shield DeLauter from tough left-handed pitching if he earns a big league look later in the year.

Blue Jays Hire Graham Johnson As Bullpen Coach

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The Blue Jays have hired Graham Johnson to serve as bullpen coach, GM Ross Atkins told reporters (including Shi Davidi of Sportsnet). Atkins also confirmed the previously reported hiring of Lou Iannotti as assistant hitting coach and indicated the team was looking to add an assistant pitching coach to work alongside Pete Walker.

Johnson joins an MLB staff for the first time. He had spent the past couple seasons as pitching coach of the Yankees’ Triple-A affiliate. Johnson also worked in the Houston farm system for four years and spent nearly a decade as a pitching instructor at the collegiate level. The Jays reassigned previous bullpen coach Jeff Ware to a different role within the organization at the end of the season.

Toronto will need a significant improvement from the relief group next season. The Jays had a 4.82 earned run average from their bullpen. Only the Rockies had a less effective relief group. Toronto relievers also ranked second from the bottom with a 20.7% strikeout rate. The Jays cut a trio of relievers after the season, waiving Génesis Cabrera and non-tendering Jordan Romano and Dillon Tate. They’ve yet to make any additions. They’ll need to bring in multiple relievers to address a group that is currently led by Chad Green and Erik Swanson.

Cardinals Sign Ryan Vilade To Minor League Deal

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The Cardinals announced that they have signed infielder/outfielder Ryan Vilade to a minor league contract. The Icon Sports Management client also receives a non-roster invite to major league spring training.

Vilade, 26 in February, has some slivers of major league experience. He got into three games for the 2021 Rockies and then 17 games for the 2024 Tigers. He has a .157/.200/.216 batting line in 56 plate appearances in the big leagues. He was outrighted by Detroit at the end of the season and elected free agency.

Those numbers are obviously not impressive, but it’s also a tiny sample size and the Cards are surely looking more at his minor league track record. He got into 108 Triple-A games in 2024, slashing .278/.346/.449 for a 105 wRC+ in his 442 plate appearances at that level. He also stole 20 bases while lining up defensively at all three outfield spots and the three non-shortstop infield positions.

Vilade also has a bit of prospect pedigree, as he was a second-round pick of the Rockies in 2017. He hit well in the lower levels of the minors in the early stages of his professional career, getting ranked by Baseball America as one of Colorado’s top ten prospects from 2018 to 2022. But he didn’t hit much at the Triple-A level in 2021 or 2022, so the Rockies put him on waivers. The Pirates put in a claim and ran him through waivers, with Vilade then going on to have another lackluster Triple-A season in 2023.

He was able to elect free agency going into 2024 and signed a minor league deal with the Tigers. As mentioned, he didn’t do much in his brief major league time but got back on track a bit at the Triple-A level, enough to intrigue the Cardinals.

St. Louis is planning for 2025 to be a reset year, where they will be more focused on upgrading their player development pipeline than on short-term contention. As such, it’s possible that they could consider trades of players with limited long-term value. Nolan Arenado seems like he could be on the move since he is turning 34 and wants to play for a contender. Brendan Donovan and Lars Nootbaar have three years of club control left and are plausible candidates to be available. Nolan Gorman still has four years of club control remaining but seems to have fallen out of favor with the Cards, making him a change of scenery candidate. Paul Goldschmidt is already gone via free agency.

Vilade’s ability to play multiple positions means that he could take up some of the playing time that might shake loose as the club shuffles the roster. If he gets a roster spot at any point, he still has one option year remaining and only has a few days of service time, meaning he can potentially be cheaply retained into the future.

Rays’ Jeffrey Springs, Pete Fairbanks Drawing Trade Interest

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There’s never an offseason where the Rays don’t have multiple players circulating the rumor mill, and this winter is no exception. Tampa Bay already flipped center fielder Jose Siri to the Mets last month, and there’s been plenty of speculation about the possibility of trades of some of their veteran players earning notable salaries. Yandy Diaz has often been the focus, but he’s one of several players who could draw interest. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi reports that closer Pete Fairbanks and left-hander Jeffrey Springs are among the Rays who’ve been popular in trade talks recently.

It’s not a huge surprise to see either player’s name pop up in trade rumblings. Fairbanks featured prominently on MLBTR’s list of top offseason trade candidates back in early November. Springs is the most expensive of at least six healthy rotation options for the Rays. Both players are signed for multiple seasons.

Springs, 32, has two years and $21MM remaining on a four-year, $31MM extension he signed prior to the 2023 season. The contract contains a $15MM club option for the 2027 season ($750K buyout). To this point, that contract hasn’t panned out as hoped, though not necessarily through any real fault of Springs. The journeyman southpaw broke out with the Rays in 2022, posting a sparkling 2.46 ERA with a strong 26.2% strikeout rate and terrific 5.6% walk rate in 135 2/3 innings. He looked like another late-blooming diamond in the rough unearthed by a Rays front office with a knack for just that type of discovery.

Unfortunately, Springs hasn’t been healthy since. He made three dominant starts to open the 2023 season (16 innings, one run allowed, 24-to-4 K/BB ratio) and then suffered a UCL tear that required Tommy John surgery. He missed the remainder of the ’23 campaign and made it back to the mound for seven big league starts and 33 innings late last year. The results were good in that limited sample. Springs posted a sharp 3.27 earned run average, fanned 26.1% of opponents and held his walks to a 7.7% rate. His average four-seamer was down from 91.4 mph in 2022 to 89.8 mph in 2024, however, and he saw similar velocity drops on his slider and changeup. Springs’ 12.9% swinging-strike rate was still strong, but it’s down from the 14.2% clip he displayed in 2021-23.

In addition to Springs, the Rays have Drew Rasmussen, Ryan Pepiot, Zack Littell, Taj Bradley, Shane Baz and a returning Shane McClanahan (2022 Tommy John surgery) all in the mix for starts next year. That’s in addition to yet-to-debut prospects like Joe Rock and Ian Seymour, who both excelled in the upper minors last year. Springs has looked the part of a high-end starter in the past but only for a fleeting span of about 150 innings across 2022-23. The Rays would be selling a bit low, but his $10.5MM salary is steep for them under normal circumstances — let alone at a time when the club is facing likely revenue losses following Hurricane Milton’s decimation of Tropicana Field’s roof and the club’s subsequent agreement to play at Tampa’s Steinbrenner Field — the spring training and Class-A home of the Yankees.

Fairbanks, 30, has been terrific when healthy in five seasons with the Rays. “When healthy” is an unfortunately crucial caveat, however, as the flamethrowing 6’6″ righty has never reached 50 appearances or topped 45 1/3 innings in a big league season. Dating back to 2020, Fairbanks touts a 2.89 ERA. He fanned nearly 35% of his opponents from 2020-23 but saw that number slip to a roughly average 23.7% this past season. Fairbanks didn’t have a huge loss of velocity on his heater, but it dipped from an average of 98 mph from ’20-’23 to 97.3 mph in 2024. His slider saw a larger drop, going from an average of 86.4 mph to 85 mph over those same periods.

The Rays signed Fairbanks to a three-year, $12MM contract that bought out all three arbitration years (2023-25) and guaranteed them control over his first free-agent season in the form of a 2026 club option. He’s owed $3.666MM this season with a $7MM option ($1MM buyout) on his ’26 campaign. Even for a partial season of a reliever with Fairbanks’ upside, it’s a pretty modest price to pay. As such, there’s no inherent urgency for the Rays to move him. They might feel a bit more motivated to move Springs and his weightier salary, but to this point it’s not clear the Rays are necessarily shopping either — just that they’ve drawn interest.

The Rays’ lot in life, of course, is to constantly listen on all of their players as they progress through their arbitration years or the latter stages of any contract extensions. This year’s stadium troubles and the uncertainty surrounding their home in 2026 and beyond only add to that.

At the same time, Tampa Bay already significantly culled payroll with their series of deadline trades and via the departures of some arb-eligible players (via trade and non-tender). RosterResource projects a bit less than $79MM in payroll for the Rays this coming season — already a drop of more than $10MM from their 2024 levels. Trading Springs, Fairbanks or other veterans like the aforementioned Diaz or Brandon Lowe could further reduce spending and free up the Rays to take on some money in other trades. With regard to free agency, they’re in a similar spot to the A’s in that they’ll have to persuade players to sign on for at least one year (and likely more) playing their home games in a minor league facility.

Royals Planning To Move Kris Bubic Back To Rotation

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The Royals intend to use Kris Bubic as a starting pitcher in 2025, write Will Sammon, Katie Woo and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic. The southpaw pitched out of the bullpen this past season after a 14-month layoff rehabbing Tommy John surgery.

Kansas City presumably always intended for Bubic’s relief role to be a short-term measure to avoid placing too much stress on his arm shortly after surgery. The southpaw’s excellent performance in short stints could’ve at least made it tempting to keep him there. Bubic was dominant over 27 relief outings, turning in a 2.67 earned run average across 30 1/3 innings. He struck out 32.2% of opponents against a minuscule 4.1% walk rate. Bubic got whiffs on nearly 15% of his offerings, well above the 11.6% league average for relievers.

That’s a relatively small sample, but Bubic was arguably K.C.’s best setup option in front of closer Lucas Erceg. The bullpen remains a concern. Chris Stratton struggled in the first season of his two-year free agent deal, while deadline pickup Hunter Harvey barely pitched for K.C. because of back issues. John Schreiber and Sam Long had solid seasons, but neither profiles as a lockdown setup man. Former top prospect Daniel Lynch IV could be well-suited to a bullpen move. He pitched well in 13 relief outings, though he spent the majority of the season as rotation depth at Triple-A Omaha.

Kansas City’s rotation is more established. Cole Ragans, Seth Lugo and Michael Wacha form an excellent front three. After trading Brady Singer for Jonathan India, Kansas City has some combination of Bubic, Alec Marsh and Kyle Wright (who is returning after losing the ’24 season to shoulder surgery) to fill out the back of the staff. All three still have a minor league option. Bubic should be on the MLB roster in some capacity, seemingly as a starter, but either of Marsh or Wright could begin the year in Omaha if everyone is healthy coming out of camp.

While Bubic was excellent in relief, his track record as a starter is less impressive. The Stanford product has a career 4.99 ERA with a middling 20.1% strikeout rate over 297 2/3 innings out of the rotation. It’s possible he was about to turn a corner before the surgery. Bubic made a trio of starts in April 2023. He struck out 16 batters in as many innings while working to a 3.94 ERA. He had a 14.7% swinging strike rate — essentially matching this past season’s relief work — in those three appearances. If that was the sign of an impending breakout, it was put on hold when Bubic’s elbow blew out.

He’ll get another opportunity to see if he can maintain that newfound swing-and-miss as a starter. The Athletic writes that the Royals could limit his innings count to 140-150 next season to avoid overworking him. That’s not far below the workload expected of most modern starters, especially those who occupy mid-rotation roles, so it doesn’t seem as if he’ll be too restricted. Sammon, Woo and Rosenthal suggest that K.C. could look to add a swingman to strengthen their depth, though that’s not as pressing as their goal of adding an impact hitter on the trade market.

Royals Reach Deal With Diamond Sports Group

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The Royals announced today that have signed a new deal with Diamond Sports Group, owner of the FanDuel Sports Network, formerly known as Bally’s. That company will continue to broadcast the club’s games in 2025.

Coming into today, the Royals were one of the few clubs with their broadcast situation still up in the air. Diamond Sports Group was the broadcaster for almost half the league as of a few years ago, but cord cutting put a dent in the regional sports network (RSN) model. They filed for bankruptcy in March of 2023 and their profile has been decreasing since then.

As part of the bankruptcy process, Diamond dropped its deals with the Padres and Diamondbacks, leaving Major League Baseball to take over those broadcasts for the 2024 season. That still left Diamond with 12 clubs in 2024 but they revealed in court two months ago that they were only planning to keep one of those clubs for 2025, which was Atlanta.

Of the other 11, four of them followed the Padres and Diamondbacks in having MLB handle the broadcasts: the Brewers, Twins, Guardians and Reds. Six worked out new deals with Diamond, reportedly or presumedly with lower fees than their previous deals: the Marlins, Cardinals, Angels, Rays, Tigers and now the Royals. That leaves the Rangers as the final team in limbo. They reportedly aren’t going to return to Diamond but are looking into creating their own RSN, though it’s still unknown if they will be able to get that off the ground for the new season.

Diamond emerged from bankruptcy last month but it’s still unclear what the long-term relationship with Major League Baseball will be. It has been reported that none of the new Diamond deals go beyond 2028, with the league considering various plans for future broadcast deals. Per Anne Rogers of MLB.com, the Royals will have the chance to re-evaluate their Diamond deal after 2025, so it seems it’s only a one-year pact or perhaps has some kind of opt-out language.

Like the other clubs who re-upped with Diamond, the Royals are going to be receiving less revenue from this new pact than they did previously. As recently as 2022, they reportedly received $45MM for their annual rights fees but president of business operations Brooks Sherman confirmed today that the revenue will be lower in this new deal without providing specific, per Rogers.

How that impacts the club’s offseason remains to be seen. They were quite aggressive last winter, signing players like Michael Wacha and Seth Lugo, as well as giving a huge extension to Bobby Witt Jr. That aggression paid off, with the Royals going from 56 wins in 2023 to 86 in 2024, good enough for a Wild Card spot. RosterResource currently projects the Royals for a $116MM payroll next year, very close to where they were in 2024. The club recently added Jonathan India via trade and is reportedly looking for another lineup addition with a preference for the trade market over free agency.

For fans, it seems little will change. The games will still be on television as before and those who streamed via the Bally Sports app will just have to switch to the FanDuel Sports Network app. There’s also now the added option of streaming via an add-on to Amazon Prime, which is the case with all clubs who have deals with Diamond.

Blake Snell’s Deal With Dodgers Includes Conditional Club Option

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Left-hander Blake Snell and the Dodgers reportedly agreed to a deal a week ago and the club officially announced it on the weekend, but the finer details of the pact are still trickling out. Per Jon Heyman of The New York Post (X link), the $182MM guarantee breaks down as a $52MM signing bonus followed by $26MM salaries in each of the five years of the deal, though with $13.2MM deferred annually without interest. There’s a $5MM assignment bonus if Snell is traded. Additionally, there’s a $10MM club option for 2030 under certain conditions: if Snell hasn’t been assigned to another club and has 90 or more days in a row on the injured list due to specific injury.

Many of these details came out in the initial reporting, including the guarantee, the signing bonus, the assignment bonus and that there were significant deferrals. However, the deferrals are slightly higher than initially thought. The numbers reported last week were $13MM in annual deferrals for a total of $65MM, but we now know that it’s slightly higher than that, with the $13.2MM annual figure actually getting the total number of deferrals to $66MM. Per Bob Nightengale of USA Today (X link), the MLBPA calculates the net present value of the deal at $150.336MM.

But the conditional option is the most significant new development today, as there was no prior reporting about Snell’s contract extending into the 2030 season in any way. Now it’s known that the Dodgers could potentially hold onto Snell for a sixth year, though only under certain circumstances.

Given the conditions, it seems it gives the Dodgers a bit of an insurance policy in the event Snell ends up with a significant injury over the course of the deal. Presumably, the specific injury would involve something related to his pitching elbow, whether that’s Tommy John surgery or some internal brace alternative. Such surgeries have become increasingly common in baseball in recent decades but still require pitchers to spend upwards of a year recovering.

Assuming that is the specific injury covered in the contract, the Dodgers would have the choice of keeping Snell around for an extra year, compensating them in a way for the lost year. Snell will be 37 years old by the time 2030 rolls around, so it’s anyone’s guess what kind of form he will be in at that point, especially if there’s a notable injury along the way. But $10MM is already not a lot of money for a starting pitcher.

Last winter, veteran back-end guys like Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn got $13MM and $11MM guarantees on one-year deals, respectively. Wade Miley and Alex Wood were not far behind at $8.5MM. Inflation generally pushes salaries up over time, so those kinds of deals might creep up a bit between now and 2030.

It’s also possible Snell’s future talent level is above where those guys are now, given that he’s a two-time Cy Young winner and has had a more impressive peak than anyone in that group. Not all pitchers can maintain that kind of performance into their late 30s, but those who do are handsomely rewarded. Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander and Zack Wheeler were each recently able to secure salaries of $42MM or higher for deals that covered their late 30s or early 40s, so Snell at $10MM could be a massive bargain if he continues to pitch well over the course of the deal.

The fact that the option is also conditional on Snell not being assigned to another club is also interesting, as it could reduce the chances of Snell being traded while hurt. Robbie Ray underwent Tommy John surgery while with the Mariners and found himself traded to the Giants before he recovered from that procedure. If Snell ends up missing some time and unlocking that option for the Dodgers, they might be more inclined to keep him and take advantage of that option. All of this is moot for now, but it could become relevant down the line, depending on how things play out in the next five years.

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