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Mets Interested In Edwin Jackson

Renewing an interest they've had for a while now, a source tells me the Mets hope to acquire Edwin Jackson from the Devil Rays for bullpen help.  They feel that they can fix some mechanical flaws in the 23 year-old righty.

Not sure if the Mets would hope to acquire Jackson as part of a trade of Aaron Heilman.  As you may have read in the papers, Tampa Bay has interest in Heilman as a starter.   

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That would be an interesting flip.

A once top 50 prospect SP that has had some control problems but has high potential. For a 27 year old middle reliever that has 2 pitches and control problems sometimes but wants to be a starter.

Makes sense if Tampa really thinks Heilman can become a starter. I think he will flop at it personally.

I remember when Peterson was going to fix another Tampa Bay pitcher.

"I remember when Peterson was going to fix another Tampa Bay pitcher."

Yea, way to go back to the well, Minaya.

It wouldn't be Heilman for Jackson. It'd have to be part of a bigger deal, with the DRays adding more.

There's no way you deal a very good young, proven setup guy for a guy who needs a lot of work.

I would think Edwin Jackson would be part of a package for Heilman or it would happen in a completely seperate deal. Jackson still has a lot of fastball and is still very young. Maybe its the Mets plan to give Peterson as many young former top prospect pitchers as possible and see what he can do. They already have Perez.

em 3 i hope your not inferring it was minaya who made that trade cuz your stupid if you are, and its an entirelyt different situation entirely, zambranowas an older started with elbow problems who wasnt very good but had good stuff. jackson is only 20 and has alot of potential, peterson has already made strides with a similar project, oliver perez. I dont necesarrily agree with baseball fan that heilman will flop as a starter, and as i have said before he throws 4 pitches, only 2 out of the bullpen he has other pitches to throw if hes starting. I do agree he will flop on the devil ray staff, facing the yankees, blue jays, and bosox a bunch of times every year. Roto any chance of this deal including some other met players and possibly carl crawford to fill the mets void in left?

nom3k i agree with u that heilman is a proven setup man and is underated in in the success the mets had in 06, but with duaner sanchez coming back, if heilman really wants out that bad might as well get a nice prospect for him, also, was jackson in the minors during the 06 season?

nrmax88, Jackson split time between AAA and MLB this year neither with good results. He posted a 5.55 ERA at triple A primarily starting and a 5.88 in the majors primarily relieving.

"em 3 i hope your not inferring it was minaya who made that trade"

good point. what i meant to say was: Way to go back to the well, METS.

They should keep Heilman, unless they can really fleece some team.

Honestly I think Jackson has more value then Heilman does guys. He is younger he was a top flight pitching prospect and still could be something very good.

no i agree that they should keep him but he obviously wants to start and if hes gona bitch about it until he gets to start, and if the mets arent going to give him a shot at starting, then why not deal him for a prospect. Peterson can fix this kid jackson if he is still young, zambrano was already a lost cause when he got here. Lol Zambrano actually does have really good stuff too, he just couldnt throw a strike and or stay healty, waste of talent

Heilman is at his highest value. Why would you trade him for this kid? Yea, it could pay off, but there's a greater likelihood that it blows up in your face.
If I'm the Mets, I try to use Heilman to acquire a decent mid-rotation starter or outfielder. If I can't get anything good, then I'd keep him. But there's no point trading him for Jackson.
I mean, if Heilman doesn't get a starting job with NYM, what is he gonna do? Leave the team? I think not.

Minaya has his own Kazmir situation: Grady Sizemore/Cliff Lee/ Brandon Phillips for Colon who he in turn used to net El Duque and Jeff Leifer. Every GM makes a short sighted/crazy deal that bites them eventually. Risk taking is part of the business

em relax buddy, its not like anyone is saying heilman for jackson straight up. Like somebody said earlier, they would be pieces ina bigger deal.
Roto just out of curiosity, what would the d rays demand if the mets went after crawford

You've got to assume if the Rays really do offer Crawford around, the Mets won't have the top flight SP prospect to be players. Too many other teams can trump their offer. Maybe if they'd held Kazmir, huh?

lol i know i was just asking, crawford wouldnt fit in great on the mets anyway, dont see him batting 6th or 7th and top 5 in their lineup arent going anywhere. Thats a cheapshot on the kazmir thing though, but it ended up being a good trade because it got us minaya

wihargo I do not think that is a fair thing to bring up. At the time the expos seemed to be almost a lock for contraction so Minaya went out and tried to get as much talent as he could for that year.

Drays want an Elite young ace, and 2 top caliber prospects for Crawford

Heilman is 27, he is a middle relieer with 2 pitches that is demanding to start. He isnt going to get you a middle of the roation starting pitcher.

I think a prospect with potential is about all you will get. If you want a back of the rotation guy though why not just use him for it? The mets do need rotation help.

I think the Drays have to realize that they're not going to get another Kazmir trade again - that was a gift, and such a gift comes about once in a lifetime. I love Carl Crawford, and would really like to see him play somewhere other than Tampa, where he gets no attention.

What would other teams offer for Crawford? Are we looking at Brandon McCarthy-type prospects (whom I think is actually very overrated) that would be delt, or could the Mets be players if they offered a package including Heilman and someone like Bannister? Or would they have to throw in Pelfry or Humber instead? If they could get away with the former, along with other prospects, that would be worth it, but I don't know about the latter .

Yeah, I forgot about that Kyle. If you're dead anyway, you may as well go for it. That may have been the Mets GM's thinking too, though. Can anyone remember if he believed he was going to get fired if the Mets didn't make the playoffs?
I used to follow the Expos and I was excited about the Colon deal.
Maybe if someone had the guts to make a trade like that 6 years before, the Expos could have even made a playoff appearance.

To get Crawford, the Rays say they have to be 'overwhealmed'. I figure they mean that in the sense that the Flyers overwhealmed the Nordiques for Lindros. (I can't think of one in baseball right now)

"overwhelming" sp

lmao.

McCarthy, Bannister, Heilman???

This is Carl Crawford we're talking about.

An outfielder who isn't even in his prime yet and has posted an OPS around 850 while playing arguably the best defense in LF.

If you're not throwing out FRONTLINE starters then stop throwing out potential trades.

I don't see Crawford going anywhere personally since no team is willing to deal elite young pitching in today's market.

Also, Heilman is terribly overrated. I'd trade Jackson for him straight up, but that's pretty much it. Heilman starting in the AL East with his 2 pitch repertoire is a recipe for a 5+ ERA.

'This is Carl Crawford we're talking about.'

He of the career 99 OPS+. Plays great defense and is an excellent baserunner, but still.

Lets calm down. No team in their right mind would trade three of their top prospects for Crawford, unless, of course, the prospects are from a barren system like the Nationals'.

'You've got to assume if the Rays really do offer Crawford around, the Mets won't have the top flight SP prospect to be players.'

Pelfrey and Humber are excellent prospects. You're just ignorant.

'Minaya has his own Kazmir situation: Grady Sizemore/Cliff Lee/ Brandon Phillips for Colon who he in turn used to net El Duque and Jeff Leifer. Every GM makes a short sighted/crazy deal that bites them eventually. Risk taking is part of the business'

He had no choice. The Expos were in contention and were about to be contracted. You shant be seeing a trade like that with the Mets.

'Also, Heilman is terribly overrated. I'd trade Jackson for him straight up, but that's pretty much it. Heilman starting in the AL East with his 2 pitch repertoire is a recipe for a 5+ ERA.'

Rubbish. Absolutely no objectivity. The Mets would never trade Heilman for Jackson straight up. This is especially true since Heilman has no leverage and the Mets don't HAVE to trade him. Also, the Red Sox and other teams have interest, so it will take a whole lot more than Jorge Julio II to get an excellent middle reliever-potential back-end starter.

And the Rays don't have to give much for Heilman since he's not needed.

He's not the frontline starter they are searching for, just a guy they are interested in at the right price.

Also, Heilman is anything but excellent... an excellent middle reliever is Joel Zumaya or Scot Shields. It would be nice if everyone would come to the realization that Heilman isn't worth all of these rumors and attention.

"He had no choice. The Expos were in contention and were about to be contracted. You shant be seeing a trade like that with the Mets."
maybe we already have and won't know about it for 3 years. jk

'And the Rays don't have to give much for Heilman since he's not needed.'

Are we talking about the Tigers? The Devil Rays had Jae Seo in their rotation for crying out loud.

'He's not the frontline starter they are searching for, just a guy they are interested in at the right price.'

First of all, nobody thinks he's a frontline starter. Second, frontline starters basically don't exist. Even when they become available... a Carl Crawford wouldn't be enough. Dontrelle Willis isn't a frontline starter in my universe.

Anyway, it's been a waste of time debating with you. Because Heilman isn't Zumaya, you expect to get him for nothing. That argument is nonsensical and offers nothing to discourse.

What do the Rays have available that the Mets would want anyway? Jorge Cantu 2005 version (with better defense)?
I don't think their needs match up too well if the Rays aren't going to trade CC.

jackson will only get worse in new york..

http://raysdodgerblues.blogspot.com/

I think that Edwin Jackson clearly has the higher ceiling than Heilman. But like everyone has been saying it would be part of a larger trade. And that "larger" trade would most likely include Crawford. He would fit in nicely in lf granted the mets find a righty bat. I dont see a lineup in the universe that Carl Crawford doesn't make better. But if this were to happen I think a third team would need to get involved. I think its absurd to think that the Rays wont trade Crawford. Ask the Yankees about having killer position players and a lack of stud pitching.

I don't expect to "get" him for anything in this fictitious armchair discussion.

Quite frankly, Heilman is the most overrated and over talked about trade piece in recent memory and I hope that the Rays wouldn't overpay for his services. There will be another sucker who will give the moon for him.

Second, frontline starters do exist. See Johan Santana, Roy Oswalt, Chris Carpenter, Jake Peavy, Justin Verlander, and more. They are also traded for quite frequently in arbitration situations or while they are still unproven prospects. The only frontline starters that aren't traded are ones in their prime who are locked up for multi-year contracts on the cheap.

And as for any deal for Crawford, starting a deal with Heilman is a joke.. an absolute joke. He's a good middle reliever, that's it!

The Rays and Mets don't match up well in terms of a Crawford trade and I'm sure the Mets can fleece someone else with a Heilman deal and get more than the Rays are likely willing to offer.

What really amazes me is how people expect the Rays to just give away their topshelf talent just because they have been cellar-dwellars. They aren't run by incompetents anymore and won't be giving away superstars for the benefit of large market teams... sorry to burst some of your bubbles.

youalreadyknow you basically just proved what therealerik was saying my list of front line pitchers is real short, Brandon Webb, Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, and Roy Oswalt are the only real aces in my opinion. There are very few guys who could be considered front line. However Crawford has a lot of value and should be able to net a few very good pitchers. I would expect if the mets want him it would start with something like Pelfrey or Humber Heilman and Bannister or something of that ilk. In my opinion the I dont see Crawford moving anywhere. More likely the DRays will deal Cantu, Gomes, and Upton to try and fill their pitching needs. They have some young pitching getting close, one more top of the rotation guy would make it awesome. Here is a realistic trade for Crawford, Elbert, Kuo and Broxton.

Carl Crawfords dont come around very often. The only things keeping Crawford from being in the upper echelon of stars (the one with Pujols and Sizemore) is that he doesnt take enough walks and he seems to want to stay in left field. In center his value would skyrocket.

Personally if I was the DRays I would try to deal Baldelli for someone like Scott Olsen or Dontrelle Willis. Or if the Marlins arent interested maybe for McCarthy and Fields.

Elbert, Kuo, and Broxton would be a good trade offer... it's realistic for both sides.

I don't see the Rays trading CC or Baldelli this offseason though due to the team situation. They are both still progressing and there is no clear replacement for either since Dukes and Upton aren't certainties at this point. I fully expect one of CC or Rocco to be traded by next offseason unless they both make the leap from being above-average at the plate to being offensive powerhouses (900+ OPS).

If they both live up to their potential, there is no reason to trade them since they are both under team friendly contracts and would be underpaid at the superstar level.

you already know
look at heilmans number in the last 2 seasons, they r awesome, he is an EXCELLENT reliever, and if u dont watch the mets every day, than u dont have thr right to say hes overated. I dont understand how all these people pass judgement on heilman without watching him day in day out, i mean honestly, how much can u actually know about a setup man on a team u dont watch everyday.

youalreadyknow, again, u proved your intelligence, because when the realerik sid there r no frontline starters, im pretty sure he meant none that will be traded lol. Sure Carpenter, Santana, Verlander, Webb, Halladay exist, but are any of them on the trading block. Would they be available for anyone unless they are offered a package that absolutely couldnt be refused. You just proved realeriks point.

I've looked at his numbers 10 times now... tickle me unimpressed when speaking of him as a starting pitcher candidate.

I've also seen him pitch a few times and other than the movement on his FB and slider, he seemed pretty average to me.

He's posted a mid-3 ERA in the NL East in the bullpen. What do you think that translates to in the AL East as a starter with only 2 pitches he can consistently go to? That's a recipe for ERA implosion.

He would be a great fit for an NL team looking for a #3/4 starter, but I have serious doubts that he'll be anything more than Jae Seo in the AL East. BTW, compare Seo to Heilman and you'll realize that Seo was a better starter than Heilman ever was in the majors.

I'd love to see Heilman as a reliever, but I'm not buying him as a starter unless he really buys into working on a changeup and being able to throw it consistently. That might be a bit much to ask of a guy already in his prime at age 28.

and obviously they are traded when they are unproven starters, but they arent frontline starters then smartone. Your a regular modern day einstein arent you

lol he doesnt even throw a slider out of the bullpen. You can count the number of sliders he threw in 2006 on your fingers and toes, maybe 20 sliders all year

lol the more of youalreadyknows posts i read the more impressed i am with his intelligence. If u scroll up, nobody suggested the mets were starting a crawford deal with heilman, i started this whole arguement lol by simply asking out of curiosity what the rays would ask for in return because i was wondering.

if u also scroll up, i am pretty sure i mentioned that heilman would get lit up if starting in the al east lol, go read before u try to outsmart me with something i said alrealy lol

How did I prove his point?

Johan Santana was acquired in the Rule 5 draft.
Chris Carpenter was snatched off the scrap heap from Toronto for a couple of million.
Jeremy Bonderman was acquired via trade.
Francisco Liriano was acquired as a secondary piece of a trade.
Scott Kazmir was acquired via trade (I know bad example lol).

Let's just stop acting like teams don't ever trade or give up frontline starters. We're not talking about giving up frontline starters in their prime... we're talking about potential frontline starters who have yet to realize that potential and may not reach it.

lmao nrmax88... who are you? seriously?

I haven't been arguing with you... at all. My dispute was with Erik and his post.

Why you think my posts are directed at you (besides these last 2) is beyond me. I was never referring to you when mentioning Heilman so learn to read posts in their proper context. NONE of these posts until now were in reference to anything you said.

lol u said heilman needs to work on a changeup? that just shows that u dont know enough about him to call him overater lmao. His change up is filthy and he throws it in every count consistently, ask anyone who has watched a met game all season, or any pro scout or anyone in general lol. You also said how he has great movement on his slider, which he basically never throws, like i said before maybe threw it 20 times all season, and u compared his starting stats to jea seo, but heilman has only started about 10 games in his career lol, no to mention none for the last year. So u cant compare him to anyone who has been starting for years. Get your facts straight

"I've also seen him pitch a few times and other than the movement on his FB and slider, he seemed pretty average to me.

He's posted a mid-3 ERA in the NL East in the bullpen. What do you think that translates to in the AL East as a starter with only 2 pitches he can consistently go to? That's a recipe for ERA implosion. "

lol that was directed to me, read the post above it einstein

Ryan Madson had a nice little changeup out of the pen 2 years ago and desperately wanted to start. That worked out well this year for the Phillies. Heilman has proven he is a better reliever and pitcher then Madson after the past 2 seasons. But he is wholly untested as a SP.

Basically it comes down to this. If you're a Mets fan Heilman looks like the next white RH Johan Santana(<---hyperbole alert). The rest of us are just not sold.

Madson has more then 2 pitches and projected out better (younger) then Heilman.

Unless you guys are finding a young ace pitcher to give them (like a bonderman type)and then giving up 2 top prospects I dont see you guys getting crawford.

Otherwise without the ace maybe a package that is disgusting like:

Martinez, Milledge, Pelfrey and heilman could snag Crawford. The DRays are looking to rip someone off.

The DRays have said that they would be open to trading Crawford only if they are overwhelmed. So yeah, they are saying they want more than he is worth, not that they would take a fair trade. They are in no rush to trade the guy. The Rays aren't that crazy team of a few years ago that traded McGriff or Canseco for a bag of chips. A lot of people thought that this summers deals were salary dumps for them, but they actually ate salary on some of those trades to get the best talent they thought they could.

A not serious proposal: how about the rays trade Wade Davis and Edwin Jackson for Heilman and Heath Bell?

re: "'Minaya has his own Kazmir situation: Grady Sizemore/Cliff Lee/ Brandon Phillips for Colon who he in turn used to net El Duque and Jeff Leifer. Every GM makes a short sighted/crazy deal that bites them eventually. Risk taking is part of the business'

He had no choice. The Expos were in contention and were about to be contracted. You shant be seeing a trade like that with the Mets."

While this trade appears hopeless now, at the time, consider these points:
1. The Indians picked up all the salary by accepting Lee Stevens in return (a worthless player owed as much as Colon).
2. Bart Colon was viewed as an "ace" starter by most, and grabbing those guys when you have a chance is important, since those chances don't come along often.
3. Lee was considered a 3/4 starter type. In his career so far, he's had an ERA almost ideantical to the league.
4. Phillips was a hot prospect, but he's not the reason this deal is considered terrible in hindsight.
5. Sizemore wasn't considered a great prospect. He'd slugged under .400 in rookie ball, he'd hit .268/.381/.335 at low-A, and was in the middle of a high-A season hitting .258/.351/.348 at the time of the trade. He was a former 3rd-round pick. Projecting him to become one of the best players in the game at that time would have been delusional.

I definitely agree with the "risk taking" part. Pointing to the ones that didn't work out is only fair if there is a paucity of ones that did work out. In short, the deal was Colon and cash for Phillips and kibble, and public sentiment at the time was that the Indians' ownership group didn't have a clue.

im a met fan and im not saying that heilman is the next whit santana. Im simply saying dont sleep on him. And especially dont call him overated if you dont know anything abou him except what youve read in article (applying to youalreadyknow)
i think given the right circumstances, heilman could be a servicable 4-5 starter on a national league team.

You're a moron. You argue with me for 15+ posts for no apparent reason and then come to the same conclusion that he's a servicable #4 starter.

I said I liked the movement on his FB and slider and you came to the conclusion that I said his slider was his 2nd pitch... wrong. My only mistake was saying that he needed to work on consistently throwing his changeup where he wants when apparently, by your accounts, he's been doing that well. If that's the case, it makes him a possible #3 starter in the NL, clearly wouldn't be in the AL East as I've been saying all along.

You're a Mets fan.. that's great... you see more Heilman than me. Nobody questioned your knowledge of Heilman's repertoire, what was questioned was his ability to start in the AL East... if you call him a servicable #4 in the NL, that tells the whole story of what he would be in the AL East.

You seem to be the only moron here. Fine, you don't think Heilman will be a good starter. Great.

But Heilman not being enough for Edwin fucking Jackson? The Red Sox view Heilman as a potential closer as other teams probably do. Just because you are a middle reliever doesn't mean you have no value.

His changeup is one of the best around. It looks EXACTLY like the fastball and just dies and tails away from lefties. It has depth...it has deception...it's lucious.

You like the movement on his slider? Much like the Bigfoot and the gyroball, you'd have a hard time seeing it on film. He basically throws two pitches out of the pen despite BA calling him a sinker/slider guy after getting drafted.

Could he start? Maybe. Some teams certainly view him as that and he's cheap. I would view him as a John Maine type mid-rotation starter more than a 4 or 5. He could certainly be better than that as he has two very good pitches already. To say he doesn't have any value is plain stupid. There is a high premium on solid set-up men in this league as I'm sure you know by the escalating salaries getting paid to non-closers these days.

Heilman straight up for Jackson? Maybe the Jackson of 2004. He has been erratic for a few years now. I'm not saying Jackson is done by any means, but you'd be hard pressed to see any type of a market for him besides a throw in at this point.

lol go up to the top of this thread all the way and find my post that says i dont think he will flop as a starter unless he ends up in the al east moron, i said that way before you did, and i said yeah he will be a servicable starter in the nl not the al. Never argued the point that he would be good pitching for the rays

thanks metros, one of the few good posts that i have read in this topic yet. For some reason there are people who like to discuss and trash players they dont know anything about, as proved by youalreadyknows idiotic comments about heilmans only good pitch being a slider.

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