Olney's Latest: Nady, Delgado, Clement, Lofton

"In what he calls "pure speculation," Olney suggests that the Mariners trade Jeff Clement to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp and some pitching. It's a rather vague trade idea, and I'd think that the Mariners could fetch a lot more than Crisp if they opted to trade Clement, who is having his way with AAA pitching."

Here they come. All the rampant Red Sox rumors that have the Mariners giving up Clement for their unwanted players.

The Mariners are most thin and feeble at 1B and DH. Sexson is hitting sub-Mendoza line and Vidro is the same with no power. Both guys will not be around for 2009. Clement can fill either role with a big left handed bat that the Mariners lack. Wilkerson is playing like garbage, this is true, but the Mariners two best in-house replacement options are Clement and OFer Wladimir Balentien. If Wilkerson keeps sucking, Balentien should get the nod. Either that or they could throw peanuts at Cinci and most likely get Junior back to play RF. They certainly don't have to give up Clement (#2 prospect in the system) to shore up a hole or two.

I think they re-signed Johjima because they weren't convinced Clement would stick at catcher in the big leagues. Regardless, his bat will stick right now so to jettison him off for a Coco Crisp type is beyond stupid.

The Mariners will not deal Clement. He will be their DH vs. RHP within the month and will be slated as Richie Sexsons replacement at 1B in 2009.

Write that down.

I think it makes more sense for the Mariners to hold onto Clement at this point. They need more power in their batting order, and that is sort of Clement's thing.

"He will be their DH vs. RHP within the month and will be slated as Richie Sexsons replacement at 1B in 2009."

I think that this is actually exactly right. He should come up soon and start splitting at bats at DH with Vidro, with the plan of having him take over for Sexson next year.

If the Mariners really want help in right field, then there are two guys that'd cost them nothing in terms of talent that I can think of that would be better than Brad Wilkerson: Kenny Lofton and Wladimir Balentien. Personally I think that Balentien should get called up by the end of June or possibly sooner if Wilkerson continues to struggle. If its speed that the Mariners are after then go get Lofton and let him split the at bats with Balentien or Wilkerson. Wilkerson just can't be a starter on a contender at this point. He's no better than Balentien right now.

And if the Red Sox REALLY want Jeff Clement to be their catcher of the future, then I think it'd be something more along these lines: Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and a low level prospect, or maybe in exchange for Masterson and Reddick.

The Mets need to release Delgado, and get Nady ASAP, but my question, what would the Mets have to give up to get Nady??

The league is really gonna miss being able to pick Littlefield's pocket. Huntington was trained by Shapiro so whoever gets Nady will probably give up too much.

mariners recieve griffey
reds recieve clement
make it happen walt

fine then

reds recieve clement plus others
mariners recieve homer bailey and jr.

I'm not sure the Mets have anything the Pirates would want. Their system, other than F-Mart, is pretty tapped, and we know they won't move F-Mart for someone like Nady. The next highest rated prospects left in their system (according to BA) are relievers Eddie Kunz and Brant Rustich. I would think the Pirates could get better prospects out of the Indians or Padres. Both teams have a lot more arms to deal than the Mets.

The jury's still out on Huntington, though, so you never know.

""mariners recieve griffey
reds recieve clement
make it happen walt"

^^^ridiculous. No comment."

Isn't "ridiculous" a comment??

Aduncaroo, no “ridiculous” isn't a comment it's an utterance... Like someone eating dinner and says, "salt"... He cleawrly wants salt or tastes salt, but it's not a comment... A comment would be, "this food tastes like sh*t, it needs salt." The word "comment" derives from the word "commentate" and later the word "commentate" became related to the word "commentator."

"comment - 1) a remark, observation, or criticism..."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/comment

Ignore the second post without the link...

Thr33niL, consider that a freebie from one person who realizes how ignorant some people can be and how much our country needs to better understand their own language.

By the way Aduncaroo, ignorant is not the same thing as stupid. Stupid implies an inability to process things as a fully functional person of similar age and education might. Ignorant offers you the credibility of being intelligent without so much as an incline of how to use said intelligence. I may regret giving you so much credit, but you don’t seem unintelligent, just a tad impulsive and not very knowledgeable.

The real issue for the Mariners is not getting a suitable RF as Balentien is an underrated runner who can play CF with his wheels, and has the strongest arm in Seattle's farm system. I believe they are waiting a couple months to bring up Balentien so that he does become a Super 2 with playing time. If they wait until June to bring him up, so that they get an extra year of paying him 750K or less.

If Sexson continues to struggle than I think they make a trade with Cincinnati. Griffey would be a nice add in RF and Balentien in left would round out the outfield nicely with Ibanez taking over at DH and Clement at 1B. If Sexson comes around than Clement is the DH and Ibanez stays in LF with Balentien in right.

There is no way that the Red Sox get this done with pitching. The only holes in the rotation can be filled in time from within the organization as the only starters that won't be re-signed are Batista and Washburn probably. They have Phillippe Aumont and either Juan Ramirez, Feierabend, Rowland-Smith and/or Morrow who can move into the rotation.

They have Cesar Jimenez as a fourth lefty for the bullpen besides the third alternative in O'Flaherty, with Rhodes and Rowland-Smth as the two on the roster. As for righties, they already have a Cha Seung Baek and R.A. Dickey for long relief. Then they have Corcoran, Green, Morrow and Lowe for middle relief, Ramirez can also become a arm for the bullpen as well as Austin Biben-Dirkx, Sean White, or Jon Huber. They just don't need another arm, we've got more than enough options until more diamonds appear in the rough of our farm system and/or the draft yields a top prospect.

As for position players, we are littered with guys.

C - Jeff Clement, Rob Johnson, Adam Moore, Travis Scott, and Luis Oliveros

1B - Bryan LaHair, Thomas Hubbard, and Johan Limonta

2B - Yung Chi Chen, Luis Valbuena, and Tug Hulett

SS - Carlos Triunfel and Oswaldo Navarro

3B - Matt Tuiasosopo and Matt Mangini

OF - Wladimir Balentien, Michael Saunders, Jeremy Reed, Charlton Jimerson, Greg Halman, Michael Wilson, Carlos Peguero, Daniel Carroll, & Gavin Dickey

Why do we need the Red Sox prospects?! Check the Mariners page, then go to their minor league affiliates and see their stats for each team and count the guys hitting at or around .400 so far and see all the guys I didn't even add to this list. Those are just the guys that will be pushing to make the 25 or 40 man rosters in the next three years.

Any trade for Griffey will not be a top prospect as Cincinnati will not re-sign him or pick up his option after this seasona and we have enough tools in house to fill voids. I think they are just giving guys a fair shake before they start trading, DFA'ing, out-righting, or releasing guys to make those players available for promotion to the club.

Seriously, you just need to get over yourself in a major way… And possibly best of all is the fact that when everyone else points out how blatantly incorrect and extremely ignorant your posts are, you just pack up shop and move on to other threads with the same arrogant, better-than-you attitude and irrelevant, incorrect, illogical spiels which do nothing but show an erroneous, irrational, unsubstantiated bias towards the team you happen to follow…

I mean, stuff like this:
“They just don't need another arm, we've got more than enough options until more diamonds appear in the rough of our farm system and/or the draft yields a top prospect.”

…Yeah, 12&13 teams that play in pitcher-friendly parks who are competing for the title generally feel comfort and confidence when their pen spots a 5.60 ERA, 1.523 WHIP and 1.46 K/BB rate while having a whole 1 reliever in AAA with an ERA/WHIP combo under 3.0/1.500… But not to worry though, the team has such standouts as:
Lowe ~ 4 ER, 7BB/4K in 7.1 IP, 4.51 ERA/1.38 WHIP minor-league career and
Baek ~ 8 ER, 4BB/7K in 11.1 IP, and career 4.98 ERA / 1.33 WHIP and 42BB/99K in 150 IP line at the big stage
Dickey ~ 33YO with 5 ER, 2BB/3K in 7 IP and a career 5.74 ERA / 1.564 WHIP and 58/104 BB/K in 273 ML innings…
Biben-Dirkx ~ a 23YO who is repeating High-A who sits with a 7.27ERA/1.85WHIP and 7BB/10K in 8.2 IP line after 4.42ERA/1.55WHIP 20BB/26K in 38.2 IP last year at the level
White ~ a 27YO starter “prospect” who sports a 4.71 ERA and 1.33 WHIP with 4BB/10K in 21IP with a Minor-League career line of 4.05ERA/1.41WHIP, 153BB/302K in 460 minor league innings over 5+ years of trying to find something resembling success…
And Huber ~ 26YO with 8.31 ERA/2.08 WHIP and 6BB/7K in 8.2 IP with a career 5.01ERA/1.53WHIP in his 8yr, 753IP minor-league career
to rely on, right?

I posted it in parts because typekey was screwing up, hence the two minutes per post... You criticize me, yet you're the one following me around the site looking for validation...

Why don't you stick to posts where you have something to offer?! Do those posts even exist?! By the way, what did you add to this thread?! Oh wait, you posted numbers for a select few guys... Yet, you exclude all the numbers that matter...

For instance... Minor league stats, really?! But doesn't he have major league stats, since we're talking about contributing in the majors?! Oh wait, he does! You're such a douchebag, I can't say that enough and for all my arrogance, at least I don't bandy about stupid arguments based around a collage of arguments that are totally unrelated...

I bet you probably are sitting at home laughing to yourself at how much you're getting to me, but who's the one that actually does what you are doing, just to get enjoyment?!

What a loser, I can't imagine anyone caring about you... I bet your parents don't even take your calls anymore, if you aren't living in their basement! Hold tight to that dream your words matter.

So for all my poor responses, at least I show EVERYONE'S STATS even the ones that DON'T GO with my point! Oh and I can think of a few threads where you stopped coming around after being figuratively bitch slapped around the site!

I LOVE how you brough up Hubers minor league stats instead of his pro stats, so I guess 28 innings in relief over the last two seasons with 23 hits 10 walks, 8 ER, 1 HR, 19 SO, over 25 games with a 2-1 and a 2.57 ERA are luck, right?! I mean half a season split over two different years and numerous call ups are probably just a streak of good luck, right?!

Austin Biben-Dirkx, good point about that ERA considering he played in High Desert which is part of one of the most volatile leagues for offense in all of baseball. Chris Tillman, the guy EVERYONE is so high on from the Bedard trade, pitched with him last year on that same team. Stat comparison was 3-1, 4.42 ERA with a 1.55 WHIP, 8 saves over 38.2 IP in 31 games and only 2 HRs, 5 HBP, 20 BB, 26 SO, 40 Hits surrendered for Bibens-Dirkx a right handed side-armer that hits 95MPH with two plus pitches, a frisbee slider and a changeup vs. Chris Tillman 6-7, 5.26 ERA with a 1.51 WHIP, 102.2 IP over 20 games in 20 starts and 12 HRs, 12 HBP, 48 BB, 107 Hits.

This was during a season when Austin just turned 22 and Chris jsut turned 19, both within weeks of each other, a 3 year age difference. Clearly Bibens-Dirx is a horrible player with no upside and won't contribute soon at all. Also Tillman was only the 2nd best prospect in the system this past offseason, not even the best overall. What more do you want, he was withheld from the trade package for Bedard that if included would've made it a 4 for 1 deal making Mickolio and Butler stay with the Mariners.

his judgement... on when and where to throw it based on counts, hitters, and how to use his other good pitches to set up the batters.

Mark Lowe, yeah, let's pick on a guy who had a "chondral defect" which threatened his career and he has made a full recovery to date, but is still building up arm speed.

In his rookie season with the Mariners in which he didn't give up a run for 17.2 IP to start his career, he was clocked throwing as high as 103mph with his fastball.

He currently is throwing 95mph and has taken a couple miles per hour off his fastball to maintain control, which should put him in the 97-98mph range.

Clearly he still needs a little more time to get all his arm strength back. So where's your attack on the guys who weren't shut down for a month due to fatigue last fall and battled back to make the team?!

I mean he was only expected to start the year on the DL, but whatever, small potatoes, right?! Way to pick on an injured guy in your "statistical analysis," believe me when I say that I use that term loosely.

Your picking of stats has a sense of continuity similar to what you would get by having a trained money throw darts at a map to determine the next logical destination for an international flight! I am very intelligent, but I'm just not smart enough to understand how you can be so stupid!

"Seriously, you just need to get over yourself in a major way… And possibly best of all is the fact that when everyone else points out how blatantly incorrect and extremely ignorant your posts are, you just pack up shop and move on to other threads with the same arrogant, better-than-you attitude and irrelevant, incorrect, illogical spiels which do nothing but show an erroneous, irrational, unsubstantiated bias towards the team you happen to follow…"

I'm sure you had a point in there... So because I point out flawed perspectives and then support my claims with statistical breakdowns, I DID, not some site...

By the way, if you want to save yourself time, just check to see if Darkstar wrote it and then go to the player in question, pick the most lopsided stats and compare 162 game averages off baseball-reference.com or just read his ill-prepared and inconclusive arguments.

Be warned, he acts like the cat that caught the mouse, even though I found out through my own REAL research that he just pulled a dead one out of someone else's rat trap.

I made him look stupid, which is why I have to keep explaining what happened until someone else tells him to stop bringing it up... I broke down that a .241 career average for Beltre who has a career .272 average, over the next 12 seasons would make him a lock to reach the 3000 hit club at 40 years old and that he could even miss a season and a half for whatever reason and still get there.

Most importantly... Besides guys accused of doing HGH, steroids, etc. and those banned for life, no player has missed being elected into the HOF with 3000 career hits or 450 HRs with 2000 hits.

I bring up the HRs because he meantions Sexson, who will become the quickest Mariner to hit 100 bombs playing for Seattle and will also get his 300th career on the same dinger. As for Sexson, he's 33 and needs to average 112 hits with 22 HRs for the next 7 season. Based on playing in 121 games like last year, that'd be a .258 average for the rest of his career, which is 4 point below his current career numbers. This year he's hitting .270 away from Safeco, so he's not washed up either. My guess is that he signs with San Fran or Texas in the offseason and if it's Texas than plan on huge numbers from him and a ticket to Cooperstown waiting for him there.

Oh and one more thing, defending a guy doesn't make it about what team he plays for and it's cronyism, not homerism go hit the pipe again smart guy!

I refused to argue with you over the fact that it's inherently obvious that most guys who could swipe 40 bags are being left in the minors while guys like Jack Cust who can't even field his position are brought in to strikeout 190 times in pursuit of 30 HRs. Where is the onus steals or homeruns?!

Clearly it's much easier to find homerun hitters if a guy Cust and Dunn are able to strikeout close to 200 times a year and still be a regular. To put it in perspective... Hank Aaron recorded more than 64 SO in only 5 season out of 23 and never had a season total in triple-digits!

The point is that Clement is far more valueable that a speedster and they are so desperate to find them, they make guys who aren't baseball players wear a uniform and stand around in the field until they can get their at-bats in pursuit of their 30 for the year.

Find me a guy that steals 30-40 bases who has a glaring deficiency in his batting...

You won't ever see it because there are 20 guys per organization that never stick each year who could've stole you 40 bases and hit .300, but it's not economical for owners because people want to see homeruns. My point is that a true hitter who blasts 30 HRs is more valueable than a guy that'll steal you 40 bases... Crisp and Ellsbury are similar players and nobody wants Crisp... The only couple teams that are interested in Ellsbury are guys that NEED a CF and that's not Seattle. We aren't going to move Ichiro to RF to accomidate Jacoby, period.

Hell, if the Mariners were to acquire GG CF Grady Sizemore than they'd move him to RF and leave Ichiro in CF, Jacoby can't play RF and Ibanez isn't an option, so sorry if I expected you to connect the dots without me telling you what number comes after the other!

Seattle isn't in the market for soft hitting OF in exchange for a player more rare than a staff ace, a power hitting catcher and left-handed no less. Also, he's not horrible defensively, he's just not a Gold Glover and that's what they want in Seattle!

Well, that means that I'm averaging 20wpm, while researching stats, comparing players, and spell checking words... I think I deserve some praise for that... By the way, here's some for you, congrats on being able to count to 10, you didn't cheat did you?! You aren't a cheater, right?! Okay, well we'll overlook the use of your fingers and thumbs!

I was just being thorough and you of all people have a leg to stand on with your dual 500 word posts to start this off?! Nice misdirection play, but unfortunately there are more than a couple people that lump you in with me as far as length and carrying on, but ironically, you're the only one that bitches at ME as opposed to everyone bitching at you!

You'd be surprised what people will do... I mean look at Jerry Springer and how long that show ran for, if it isn't still on now! Maybe people are compelled to agree after a thorough and complete argument. Well unless they're an idiot like you, but I don't pick fights that I'll easily lose, either! Most arguments which has no clear side to take, are left for others to analyze.

So out of you lame response, I'm left finding a flaw in 5 paragraphs from which 40% of the written words are mine. What's your fielding percentage for answering all that comes at you, mine's got to be .990 with as many words as I write. Not Gold Glove, but solid.

Your quote of my statements:

“(1)You're such a douchebag, I can't say that enough and for all my arrogance, at least I don't bandy about stupid arguments based around a collage of arguments that are totally unrelated...”
&
“(2)What a loser, I can't imagine anyone caring about you... (3)I bet your parents don't even take your calls anymore, if you aren't living in their basement! (4)Hold tight to that dream your words matter.”

Since you chose to write that after quoting me, correct English would expect the following statement to be explanatory about why you have chosen to quote these sentences. The sentences from the two quotes have been numbered, reference the numerical value between the parenthesis, inside the quotes above.

So clearly the second sentence would be, "what a loser, I can't imagine anyone caring about you..."
"I can't" makes it a negative-possessive meaning in is an uncomplimentary view that is had by ME, basically it's MY thought, got it Darkstar?! Okay, so it means that the sentence that "starts out with incorrect statements," is an utterance followed by a comment about what I feel or think, so it can't be wrong unless I misrepresented how I feel.

In other words, you either can't count or you can't read, but either way that statement stands and is correct on the premise that it is a representation of the writer's thoughts and since I'm said writer, I'm confirming, you're an idiot!

Do you want me to drop my hands so you can get a shot in?! Sorry, wrong sport, it needs to be a baseball not a boxing analogy... Got it! Try bunting, clearly you're having a hard time making contact and with your apparent ease at running people down to tell them what you think, you should have no difficulty beating the throw... While it's not a homerun, atleast you'll be getting on base!

That statement refers to why I would have such an overwhelming success rate... Not that I'm smarter than anyone here, but as they say about lawyers, the best litigators are the ones that know when not to take a case.

WOW, you kept going??? Geeze… Ok, but here ~ I’ll entertain your rants for a moment…

“Well, that means that I'm averaging 20wpm, while researching stats, comparing players, and spell checking words... I think I deserve some praise for that... By the way, here's some for you, congrats on being able to count to 10, you didn't cheat did you?! You aren't a cheater, right?! Okay, well we'll overlook the use of your fingers and thumbs!”

…Pure immaturity. Its intelligence at its lowest when you make “points” like this instead of actually providing anything of relevance… Word of advice, going around saying “youre ignorant, I’m smarter than you, you live with your mother and no body likes you” ~ well, that tells each and every person reading it that you are projecting your shortcomings upon others.

“I was just being thorough and you of all people have a leg to stand on with your dual 500 word posts to start this off?! Nice misdirection play, but unfortunately there are more than a couple people that lump you in with me as far as length and carrying on, but ironically, you're the only one that bitches at ME as opposed to everyone bitching at you!”

…To be thorough though, you have to have a point. Ranting with childish remarks like those above do not count as “points” ~ hence my using quotations to distinguish them… BUT, if you want to talk about my “dual 500 word posts”, would you first like to talk about the fact that approximately 200 of those words are quoting you, or would you prefer to start with the 200 or so words that were almost entirely stats? Anyway, Cubs fans have said that about my posts, but nearly every time I tell them “you try to make it short when you are using multiple quotes”. You; well you don’t do that ~ your post word-counts end up in the thousands solely because you start a rant about, say, Bonds, somehow go into a spiel about the roadrunner, start describing the different Toons WB created, detail how DaffyDuck looks kind of like Eric Patterson and end it proclaiming your intelligence in the face of everyone else being ignorant. Well, that’s obviously a stretch, but honestly its not too far from your tendencies… BTW, I’m not the only ~ atleast two others have in the last 3 days ~ each more or less stating that you A) didn’t have a point, B) didn’t have facts and C) are arrogant in the face of A&B…

“You'd be surprised what people will do... I mean look at Jerry Springer and how long that show ran for, if it isn't still on now! Maybe people are compelled to agree after a thorough and complete argument. Well unless they're an idiot like you, but I don't pick fights that I'll easily lose, either! Most arguments which has no clear side to take, are left for others to analyze.”

…Ok, this is one of those things where people can only sit there and think ‘WTF are you talking about’. This is what I was talking about with that Roadrunner/WB stuff… Its just the completely irrelevant, idiotic crap you spew to try to make a “point” with ~ and of course it includes your always prevalent “I’m so smart, you are ignorant” portion… This is one of the many reasons that no one seems to give any of your posts respect, but you apparently seem unable to grasp that rather simple concept I guess…

“In other words, you either can't count or you can't read, but either way that statement stands and is correct on the premise that it is a representation of the writer's thoughts and since I'm said writer, I'm confirming, you're an idiot!”

Uhh, OK ~ so apparently we need to reverse this childish attack, as it appears to be you who is the one which “either can't count” or “read”. Does that mean that “I'm confirming, you're an idiot!” though? Interesting how that works out, isnt it?

“Do you want me to drop my hands so you can get a shot in?! Sorry, wrong sport, it needs to be a baseball not a boxing analogy... Got it! Try bunting, clearly you're having a hard time making contact and with your apparent ease at running people down to tell them what you think, you should have no difficulty beating the throw... While it's not a homerun, atleast you'll be getting on base!”

Its interesting that a person who hasn’t seems to make a single correct statement is still giving the “I’m better than you, youre ignorant” spiel in every other sentence… Glad you have given some 40+ sentences about nothing though! ***sigh***

(POST BREAK)
“Most arguments which has = Most arguments which have”

…Did we need another post for that? What does a typo matter? I don’t give a crap if you spell something wrong, the fact that you haven’t provided a point, cant even really find the topic, and seriously do little more than try to bash me ~ well those things make you look like a simpleton ~ not a typo…

(POST BREAK)
“That statement refers to why I would have such an overwhelming success rate... Not that I'm smarter than anyone here, but as they say about lawyers, the best litigators are the ones that know when not to take a case.”

…Oh, so now you are explaining your typo sentence? And yet again going into that meaningless “FP%” crap? ***rolls-eyes***

(POST BREAK)
“negative-possessive meaning in is = negative-possessive, meaning it is”

…and, again another meaningless post to correct yet another typo which was trivial to begin with…