Manny Ramirez Rumors: Friday

Boras is not handling this well...lol

Whats wrong Boras. Your BS not working with this one.

Maybe the "media-technique" that Boras has depended on for so long finally is no longer working. There is so much more exposure to rumors and information now then there ever was before and I think that hurts this type of strategy. The GMs know even more than us in regard to whats going on out there. Boras isn't fooling anyone this offseason and Colletti has him by the balls. It seems that Boras is grasping at straws by going after the Dodgers arch rivals. That may work in the AL East, but that ain't working here!

I still feel that there is something much deeper going on with Colletti and Boras because of the restructuring of Andruw's contract. Boras would not just let that happen if there was no benefit for him and his client (other than leaving LA and "starting" somewhere else). It just seems like Boras and Jones gave up too much to not get something back from the Dodgers. I'm not sure if that something would be a higher price on Jones, the signing of another Boras client (Lowe/Perez) or what. Time will tell.

Let's say the Giants do sign Manny, and the Braves sign Lowe. That means the Dodgers will get 2 compensation picks and 2 2nd round picks for these two. It looks like the Dodgers have no interest in Lowe, so he's out. But I'd think the Dodgers would have to look at 1) Manny going to their division rival. 2) Only getting a 2nd round pick (which will be in the high 40's or 50's it seems), and 3) The fan factor (relevant only if Manny signs for 2 years with the Giants).
Granted Manny going to SF would allow the Dodgers to sign Dunn for half the cost of Manny, but then the Giants would be an actual threat to win not only the West, but have a shot for the World Series. With that pitching staff and a few timely hits by Manny and the Giants could easily sneak to 85-90 wins and then get hot in October.

And as much as the Giants' brass are saying the right things, I think they're more likely to guarantee a 3rd year than LA is. And that may end up getting it done.

Would the Dodgers get that many picks? The Giants' 1st rounder is protected, b/c it's so high. The Dodger's would get a sandwich pick from them, wouldn't they?

What is the eventual price the Manny/Boras camp will accept? At this point it seems the price tag may lower to 2/40. Would it change the dynamic of guaranteeing a 3rd year if it was at $20million/yr or less? I could see the Dodgers easily offering 3/54. That is a dramatic price reduction right?

Management ...

The Dodgers would get the 2nd round pick of the Giants + a supplemental pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds. No teams lose picks in the supplemental round.

At least that is my understanding of the compensation.

a big question is this one...do the Junts want to give the Dodgers two draft picks for MRam?

That is a serious consideration these days. Yeah, MRam is an INSTANT impact guy who can help win now, not 3-4 years down the road. And there is no guarantee anyone would even pitch to MRam if he was Giant. I mean why should they until the rest of the line-up proves they can create runs.

I am not saying this is impossible, but right now the Giants are not a roster with 3-4 20+ hr/yr kinda guys to begin with...so they bring in MRam, lose two draft picks, then no tram will pitch to MRam until the rest of the lineup proves they can score.

Right now, the Giants can win if their pitching stays healthy. But they will need 8-guys in the BO who can create runs...getting MRam reduces that to creating runs with 7-guys even if MRam walks 3-4x/game. One thing that prevented the same thing in LA was he did have some above average hitters around him so teams could not always work around MRam.

I enjoy the speculation of MRan as a Junt, it just really does not make sense beyond a PR move right now...if this was 2yrs from now, maybe a different story.

FYI, the Dodgers were lilely promised the chance to match any offer or they & Boras would not have worked so hard to modify AJones' deal, another anit-key-ryeist, errrr, Boras, client...

the dodgers are going to get him, but why don't the giants at least bluff a bit to raise the price for la? Instead they laugh at the idea of them seriously going after manny.
The giants organization doesn't even care if he goes to the division rival, it makes no difference to them which is sad to see. It seems the rivalry is primarily with the fans.

"It seems the rivalry is primarily with the fans."

I feel that this is the case with most MLB (and pro sports) teams. Torre and Francona were really good friends, but had to keep their friendship secretive while Torre was the manager of the Yanks. I bet most players just see their rivals as another team (although they probably view the fans differently). Rivalries are fun thought and they are probably such a big deal because of the media and the fans (like you said, I just added the media part! :))

standtallyourgiants: Because the Giants still are interested. The idea is to try to keep the price low enough that you yourself can go after him. Boras wants them to raise the price...but why should they just to help Boras out? If they want Manny then they should play their game, not Boras's.

"The Giants' reaction to that was laughter"

This made my day.

The Giants need to let Manny be Manny elsewhere.

Dodger fans truely entertain me. All this posturing how great they are gonna be and how bad the Giants are.
THEY WON 84 GAMES LAST YEAR. That's good? You lost Lowe and Penny. You're pitching staff is terrible. Go ahead and sign Manny, score 5 runs a game and lose by 2 every game. Manny can hit homeruns into those high school benches you guys call bleachers and you're still going to be worse than last year.
Yes the Giants have been terrible, but the only reason they are signing these pieces is they believe they can win a terrible division while still developing an entire team of youngsters.
Dodgers blow.

cutmeibleedblue,
I'm not here to be a gentleman or scholar. Just to share my hopes the Giants get Manny and beat the crap out of la la this year.

Yes, I know nothing about baseball or the Dodgers. I apologize profusely for ever inferring that any Dodger fan would ever claim that their "Mighty Blue" was great. Enough with you.
As a Giants fan, I could care less if Manny is a Dodger. The point I was making was that the Dodgers weren't a good team last year and they have gotten worse over the offseason. Even with Manny, they'll be worse off than last year. I hope he does sign with the Dodgers so your fans can see how frustrating having the guy on your team in August (when he decides to take some personal beach days) truly will be.

"The Dodgers need to and will sign one B type (in reality B type, could be an A type in free agency) pitcher like Wolf or Sheets, or just take a reclaimation guy like Benson or use Schmidt (if he ever comes back) and use them as a 5th starter. The Dodgers staff may not be the best staff in the NL or maybe baseball like last year, but to say it's terrible is just ignorant.

People like you make my day."

This is exactly what I was referring to Kfer.

The Dodgers lost Lowe, Penny, Beimel, and Saito. The only real loss from the bunch is Lowe. Penny was awful all last year. Beimel and Saito were inconsistent at best. Our staff is young and there are three emerging stars (Elbert, McDonald, and Kershaw) who should all improve from their performances last year. I agree that with the signing of a solid Type B pitcher we wont have the best rotation in the majors, but we will be able to hang with the top teams.

Also, the reason that I feel that you know nothing about the Dodgers in 2008 is because last season was one of the most injury plagued seasons the Dodgers have experienced in recent times. Kent, Nomar, Furcal, Jones, Saito, Kuo, Pierre, Kuroda, Penny, Proctor, and others were on the DL off and on all last season. Just having our players healthy for a majority of the season would be a huge upgrade from last year and would result in a better record (not to mention the addition of Blake and the possible addition of Manny for an entire season).

I love how you have no argument against me and just say "i'm done with you." It's like waving a white flag! You are completely uninformed and make Giant fans look bad. If I were a giant fan I would be begging you to stop posting your uninformed ignorant comments.

Well, I'm glad I could make your day.
Schmidt won't come back, Ben Sheets could be another Schmidt, and Wolf pitched more than 150 innings for the first time last year in 4 years. I'll give you Billingsley, but what else do the Dodgers have that they can take to the bank.
Again, this is not me, as a Giants fan, saying that my team is great and we're going to win the WS, blah blah blah.
All I'm saying is that the Dodgers got worse from 2008 to 2009. And by not having a pitching staff that can be relied on in 09' makes the NL West winnable by virtually anyone when the Dodgers, admittedly, sould have ran away with it.
So as a Giants fan, thank you Ned Colletti and Frank McCourt for allowing me to watch baseball in 09' and enjoy it.

Kfer,

Can you read? Are you sure? As Ivdown, Dodgersbruin, and I have all stated Lowe was the only loss to our pitching staff (which was the best in the NL!). Bills and Kershaw should continue to improve. McDonald should be in the rotation next year at least for part of the year and the Dodgers go out and get a solid back of the rotation Type B pitcher that is still available. Not to mention Kuroda who was a rookie last year and showed flashes of brilliance (almost a perfect game against the Braves and another near no-hitter). The staff will be in the top 5 in the NL. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand. The production from a more mature Kershaw and a new FA pitcher should make up for Lowe's production last year in my opinion. You are totally uninformed and have no argument.

55,

I think it is hilarious that you are always the first to point out that the Giants have some notable up and coming youngsters (which they do) but I have never once seen you recognize the young talent on the Dodgers. A little hypocritical?

Arizona does have some nice young bats. I think they lost too much in Dunn/Hudson/Ownings/Randy

I still say NL West will be won by either team that gets Manny.

The stick i want is Chris Davis. I don't know if Rangers would make him available, but that guy looks like the real deal!

So if you want to get back to the "Manny" hype, okay.
He's all yours. Spend the $20M + a year for the guy and watch what he does for you. He'll get his numbers, he always does, but I can't wait for the headlines "Manny meets Lindsay Lohan at Nobu and forgets about the Dodgers". Wait, she's a switch hitter now. Well, you get hat I'm saying.
And if the Giants do sign him, I will stand by my statement that I didn't want him in the first place cause he's like lip cancer to a clubhouse full of youngsters.

Boras is having another bad off-season.

Apart from Teixiera getting 180 million (which I could have gotten him), Varitek, Manny and all the others, utter crap.

I hope a lot of players are looking at him and thinking he is bad, because he is.

"55,

I think it is hilarious that you are always the first to point out that the Giants have some notable up and coming youngsters (which they do) but I have never once seen you recognize the young talent on the Dodgers. A little hypocritical? "

Cut -

Hypocritical? Do you know the meaning of that word? Oh sorry, I forgot you are sensitive.

Yes the Dodgers have some solid young kids....is that better? lol

I can see you getting P.O.'d if I said Dodger youth was crappy, but I didn't mention them at all...SO WHAT??

And all the RS praised him as a teammate until he left and the truth started coming out.

Manny was a good teammate because he wanted a huge contract next.

You can guarantee you will not get the Manny you had in 2008.

Having a ton of Red Sox fans as friends, I would agree that Boston/NY media is brutal. But LA media isn't much different.
The reason Manny played nice is he knew he screwed up his situation in Boston and he was playing for a contract. Again, he'll get his numbers, but like a new car, his new car smell will ware off soon enough.

"I can see you getting P.O.'d if I said Dodger youth was crappy, but I didn't mention them at all...SO WHAT??"

My point is that you are the first blast anyone who fails to recognize the fact that the Giants have some promising talent in the wings, but, you never acknowledge the fact that the Dodgers big league roster is LOADED with tons of studs. And the main difference is that all of the dodgers are on the big league roster not just "in the wings" or "invited to spring training." If you expect the fans of your team's rival to acknowledge your teams "prospects" then you should acknowledge our young players. Fair is fair. It's not a one way street bro. BTW, I never have said that the Giants don't have promising prospects. I hope that any team that sucks that long would have accumulated some prospects.

As far as me being sensitive, you can call me whatever you want (I'm sure I've been called worse by better people) but don't insult my intelligence. I don't appreciate that and think that it is quite childish (I am referring to the conversation we had earlier in the week not this one). I guess the difference between you and me is that I would rather someone call me an A-hole than insult my intelligence (can't say the same for you though--well you must be used to the latter).

Back to the Manny discussion,

As far as Dunn goes, I still would much rather have Manny. Dunn is a good hitter and quite consistent but Manny is in a whole other league. Dunn is a great back up plan, but Manny is worth the money and should remain the focus.

"Having a ton of Red Sox fans as friends, I would agree that Boston/NY media is brutal. But LA media isn't much different. "

It's MASSIVELY different. I live in Boston now. The media here is 24/7 Red Sox. Every day I listen to the radio there's more talk about the Red Sox. Plus, with such a small clubhouse, the media is on top of the players. Manny said he needed space. The media hounded him and his family.
Now in LA, there are some writers who are brutal. But there's the Lakers, Trojan football, Bruin basketball, Hollywood and more stories about Britney Spears than Manny's son. It's not brutal by Boston standards at all. You can turn on the TV at home and not hear anything about the Dodgers for hours. You're lucky to go 15 minutes in Boston without hearing about the Red Sox.

Excusing one's actions because of one's on the field production. This sounds eerily similar to something that happend up in NorCal. Now I'm not saying Manny is goosed up, but antics are antics.

"Excusing one's actions because of one's on the field production. This sounds eerily similar to something that happend up in NorCal. Now I'm not saying Manny is goosed up, but antics are antics."

There is a huge difference there. I would have a lot more respect for Bonds (and Lo Duca and Gagne for that matter) if it weren't for the whole performance enhancing substance thing. I'm trying to argue that Manny never juiced (we may never know that, only Manny will), I'm just saying that if Bonds was only a jerk, I still wouldn't like him but I would have much more respect for what he contributed to the game. Also, I am a third generation Dodger fan and hate the Giants, but I am man enough to admit that Bonds was one of the greatest to play the game and it is a shame and a sad day in baseball and professional sports that he has his entire career and legacy.

Well lets be honest. Neither will be in a similar situation in the future because
1. Manny's going to be 38 yrs old and this should be his last chance
2. Jones hit at a 186 clip in winter ball and will be lucky if he gets a phone call from Charlie Donovan to play for the Tribe along with Jake Taylor, Ricky Vaughn and Willie Mays Hays.

55,

I still feel that you are understating players like Bills and Loney (who will compete for a batting title and win a gold glove or two in his career--but doesn't have much power), but that seems somewhat fair. And, I was just trying to argue that the Giants have bigger fish to fry than Manny. In other words they could spread out that $20M per in more productive ways. Also, Lincecum and Cain are not prospects they too are young studs. The other Giant players you listed are prospects. All of the Dodgers players you listed (which you left out Ethier/Elbert/Dewitt/Wade/Broxton) are young studs as well. What I'm trying to say is that the vast majority of our roster is home grown and contributing at the major league level. The Giants are a year or two (or even three) away from that. My main point is that it is unfair for you to expect all of us Dodger fans to acknowledge the fact that the Giants have some promising prospects and then state that "some of your young guys are ok."

In regard to the "homer" comment, I disagree with about 90% of your posts but I have never resorted to name calling which is childish and unnecessary in an adult conversation (even in regard to politics, taxes, and professional sports--a modified Mark Twain quote). If you can't have an argument without insulting someone else's intelligence then good luck in life!

"I still say NL West will be won by either team that gets Manny."

How weird. When did the Yankees move to the NL West?

lincecum
cain
johnson
zito
sanchez

hmmmm... go ahead and sign manny i won't be worried

I am not saying this is impossible, but right now the Giants are not a roster with 3-4 20+ hr/yr kinda guys to begin with...so they bring in MRam, lose two draft picks, then no tram will pitch to MRam until the rest of the lineup proves they can score.

....and this is the KEY right here. The giants have to get production out of the three spot in order for all this to work. Do you throw "quasi-rookie" Pablo "Little Money" Sandoval to the Wolves right away and put him in the three spot and hope he mashes his way into protecting Manny, and then Benji "Big Money" Molina in the 5 spot, and hope he can be as clutch? These guys are bound to see a ton of fastballs with Manny in that 4 spot of the line up for the Giants...

Either way, we're talking a pipe dream here with Manny. The Giants have gained huge strides this off season, and one more big bat may throw them over the top in this putrid division. The Dodgers even signing Manny back have lost so much in pitching that the question is will Manny be able to off set that crappy pitching staff even with his huge offensive run production?

Dodger Fan has much to ponder...

Cutme is a little baby! He must be mcCheaps nephew or kid!