Newsday's Ken Davidoff has some notes up about both New York teams in his latest blog post. Let's take a look at some of the highlights:
- Joba Chamberlain has "slipped down the Yankees' food chain," writes Davidoff. Joba will be arbitration-eligible and due for a nice raise, and it wouldn't surprise Davidoff to see the Yankees at least listen to offers on the 25-year-old. Over his last two seasons (229 IP), Joba's managed just a 4.64 ERA to go with an 8.3 K/9 and 3.9 BB/9 (his 2010 peripherals are much stronger than 2009). Still, I'd imagine a substantial amount of interest if he were made available.
- Lance Berkman doesn't think he'll be a Yankee in 2011 and Davidoff agrees. He praises Berkman for getting his big moments in Game 2 of the ALDS and calls him an "eminently likeable man." That personality may be a factor that teams consider this offseason as Berkman looks for an everyday role, and not just a platoon spot.
- Sandy Alderson will most likely interview with the Mets next week about their GM opening. According to Davidoff, Alderson is a "dream candidate" for the Mets and he can't see how the Mets wouldn't give him the position if he's interested.
If I’m AA, I would certainly be interested in Joba depending on the price.
I had a dream once that the Pirates traded for Joba. I’d love to see that happen.
Who would you offer?
I really don’t know. I wouldn’t give up Meek or Hanrahan for him, and I wouldn’t give up too many prospects to get him. The Pirates and Yankees don’t really match up well for that kind of trade.
Two mediocre seasons should make Joba Chamberlain very tradeable. He’s not the top prospect that he was once thought out to be, and should come at a good price now. The Yankees won’t be able to get much back for him prospect wise. You’d have to think that two decent prospects would get it done.
They wouldn’t trade him for prospects, especially not pitching prospects. What would he bring back that would be better than even their 4th-best guy?
No, if they trade him, they’ll trade him in a package for a major-league position player. It’ll be a hell of a bidding war for Rasmus.
Despite the antics going on in St Louis, don’t expect to see Rasmus in a different uniform next year… don’t even expect there to be a bidding war when the first “big” offer comes in and Mozeliak says “you gotta do much better than that.” Mozeliak holds all the cards, you want him, say good bye to Montero to start.
Like I said, he has no value as a “prospect” any more, so they’d still have to include some pretty nice pieces to acquire a major league position player. Sure, it could go either way, but if they could get two bullpen arms for him, which I’m sure they could, I’d pull the trigger.
i don’t think the yankees are giving up on joba just yet. they put way too much effort into him to give up now. If they send him to AA next year, and let him change his delivery so he can actually repeat it, then within a season or two he will be dominant again.
Within a season or two? I don’t think so, they shouldn’t even send him back down. He’s actually had a ton of good outings since Kerry Wood came, and his stuff and velocity has come back nicely.
Joba won’t be traded. The Yankees would want too much. It’ll be the same thing as Chad Cordero, Nationals always thought they could still get his 2005 price in 2007.
How about a Jonathan Broxton for Joba Chamberlin trade? Both are bullpen parts that have seen better past performances and could use a change of scenery. I think Broxton is making more money though.
Trading a still good prospect for a mediocre closer no thanks. Broxton’s value is almost zip, he was absolutely horrible after in the second half
I don’t really see how that’s fair. Broxton has been a reliable arm since 2006, and had a bad second half in 2010. Would Joba for Broxton even be a conversation before 2010?
“Would Joba for Broxton even be a conversation before 2010?”
No, but that’s because Joba was plenty more valuable.
And he still is. Broxton’s arm is mush.
Is it even possible to have an intelligent argument with a Yankees fan?
In 2009, Broxton was 25 years old, and posted a 2.61 ERA, 0.96 WHIP, 36 Saves, 114 K’s in 76 IP season.
Joba had a great 2008, a terrible 2009, and a mediocre 2010 (all in various roles).
Just face it, Joba Chamberlain is talented, but he was never nearly as good as Broxton was (and can still be).
Um, in 2009, and even in the offseason, Joba was projected as a potential front-of-the-line starter down the road.
You don’t trade those for relievers, no matter how good the reliever is.
Now, even though Joba’s projection has declined, so has Broxton’s, due to serious health concerns (in large part thanks to Torre). Joba’s still a more valuable asset.
You’re comparing what Joba is now, to what Broxton was then. I imagine you’d also argue Pedro Martinez is a more valuable asset than Joba, because back in 1999 Joba was a teenager.
Don’t think anyone will argue that broxton had some severe trouble the 2nd half of 2010, but his problem was only mechanical delivery wise am pretty sure and he didn’t lose 4-5mph from his FB like Chamberlain has ever since the attempt to make a starter out of him that he has yet to get back fully.Can’t see even Colleti & Crew making that deal, or until Chamberlain gets back one of the 2 of control, or his FB that ain’t neither came back yet and the 2nd half of 2010 still was not consistent for him.
I don’t know many people who projected Joba Chamberlain to be a potential front of the rotation starter this past offseason outside of extreme Yankee homers. Yeah stranger things have happened and he could become one, but I mean the chances were far less than 50-50. I mean there are real questions whether he can even endure a season as a starter without breaking down or having his stuff suffer greatly. Just because Joba can start doesn’t mean his value is as a starter. I think right now you have to call Joba a reliever, he’s been given multiple opportunities to stick as a starter and has failed. I think the comparisons in value to Broxton are very fair, and your analogy to Pedro Martinez is dumb…Broxton is one year younger and had one bad second half. Your idea of Joba’s value comes from peformance and projection further in the past than Broxton’s, so I find that very hypocritical.
“Um, in 2009, and even in the offseason, Joba was projected as a potential front-of-the-line starter down the road.”
By whom? The bleacher creatures? He might become a solid starting pitcher someday, but this “front-of-the-line starter” nonsense is pure Yankee propaganda.
“You don’t trade those for relievers, no matter how good the reliever is.”
So Broxton has no value just because he’s a reliever? He’s 26 years-old, throws upper 90’s, and posted just one bad half in the past four seasons of being one of the more dominant relievers in baseball.
“Now, even though Joba’s projection has declined, so has Broxton’s, due to serious health concerns (in large part thanks to Torre). Joba’s still a more valuable asset.”
So Joba is more valuable just because he’s been consistently mediocre as opposed to super dominant minus one half of the season?
“You’re comparing what Joba is now, to what Broxton was then. I imagine you’d also argue Pedro Martinez is a more valuable asset than Joba, because back in 1999 Joba was a teenager.”
No, I was merely pointing out how high Broxton’s value was before 2010. You’re making it seem like Joba is 17 year-old super-prospect and Broxton is past his peak. They are two years apart, and Broxton is a proven pitcher with arguably better stuff.
I’d also like to point out that I wasn’t even suggesting such a trade would happen, I was only objecting to your lack of logic in regards to Broxton’s value.
Wow. “mush”? He still throws in the upper 90’s. He is having difficultly: 1. Locating his fastball and 2. Throwing/locating secondary pitches. Can you imagine how much better he would be if he mixed in a slow curve or change-up after throwing 3 – 5 located fastballs consecutively? It could just be he needs better instruction or a different environment to re-new his skills or confidence. Broxton for Joba is interesting but I don’t think it’s completely one-sided as some may make it out to be
I’m confused why you refer to Joba as a “prospect”. Whether or not he was used correctly, he has had plenty of MLB time to prove himself and has yet to do so. I don’t see anything that would lead me to believe he can be an productive starter either. He’s only one year younger than Broxton too.
This is hilarious. First, Joba isn’t a prospect anymore, he’s a major leaguer. An average one at best. Broxton is an above average closer who had a bad second half this year, likely from all the wear and tear from Torre the past few years.
Job’s ‘slippage’ has to do with coming back to reality. Ever since he came into the league, he’s been under an aura of huge and unreal expectations created by the fans and the media in NY. Keep in mind that he arrived to the ML’s at the age of 21, When Ny was thin in Pitching and was thrust into the playoffs right away. Then became the center of the ‘Joba Rules’ circus.
Then again a character in the Johan Santana trade show. Then the controversy on whether he should be a starter or Rivera’s heir appearent in the bullpen.He has not helped himself with the fist pumping histronics either. All this is heady stuff for a kid, (he’s actually younger the Phil Hughes) who has never really been tested before. He was given a chance to win to win a starter’s spot in the spring and lost out on that
Now he’s finding that MLB is a tough job, especially pitching in the AL East and on a team that’s always in the thick of things throughout the year.The Yankees are a show me team, results are what counts with them. If you don’t produce, they find some one else. That’s why they brought in Kerry Wood. This is a learning year for Joba, he’s going to find out what he’s made of. I don’t think NY will trade he unless they recieve an outstanding offer, as there is still lots of potential in Chamberlain, but he has to put it together real soon.
What Joba has been is inconsistent and erratic. He has also shown quite well at times, whether starting or relieving. It happens to a lot of young pitchers; Joba was thought to be a better pitcher than “those” kind of guys. He’s shown enough in his good outings to be kept around. I don’t think they should trade him.
The changing roles, from the pen to the rotation then back to the pen probably didn’t help his transition to the big leagues. And with all the hype that came with him, and the high draft position, if he ends up being merely good instead of great, he’s going to be a disappointment in New York.
As far as the fist pumping, that doesn’t bother me at all. Robot baseball players bother me. Zombie baseball players bother me. You’re a man playing a kids game. Go ahead and let the joy out, if that’s your personality.
He probably won’t be dealt. I think the Yankees hold him in a higher regard than the rest of the MLB, and would be expecting more than other teams will give. He still has value as a high upside guy, but he’s neither a starter nor a reliable end of the game option at this point.
I wouldn’t deal Joba, at least not right now. The Yankees should give him a shot to start, his A stuff has come back nicely.
The fact of the matter is you don’t sell low on a guy like Joba. Even with the “lost” velocity as a starter, he was topping out at 96, it’s not like he’s Kenny Powers.
Trading him for two “decent” prospects makes no sense. I’d rather stick with the project who has demonstrated success rather than one or two guys who might have decent success at some point.
Stick with Joba, give him a career path, work on his conditioning and see what happens.
People said the same thing about Buchholz after 2008 and Robbie Cano. Being short-sighted is the number one flaw in a GM
“Being short-sighted is the number one flaw in a GM ”
Curtis Granderson for Austin Jackson……anyone?
I feel that, Joba’s value is totally dependent on what his contract status is. If he gets anything over $4M per year next year, he flat out has NO trade value. Of course the Yankees could afford him at this price, but its hard for many other teams to justify a mediocre specialist/set-up guy at that price.
Given that, unless the Yankees want to pay Joba’s full salary in order to get him out of town, the only thing they would get in return is another terrible contract (Zito?), or a career minor league guy. No way do they get one, much less TWO prospects for Joba in my opinion.
You mean the Granderson who was 5/11 in the ALDS and after fixing his swing finished the year 18/64 with 7HR and 17 RBI in 17 games? The one still in his prime and signed another two years who has been excellent when healthy this year?
Austin Jackson was tremendous in his rookie year but 170K is going to become a huge problem if he can’t fix it and the Yankees already have Gardner, Granderson and Swisher for 2011 and the first two for 2012…Having a powerless young outfielder who gets on base doesn’t fit into a contender’s plans when they already have three guys with power who can still get on base.
I think if this is July or Gardner didn’t turn into a .275/.380, you can make that argument, but not now, not with the way Curtis turned around his season.
Now Tabata for Nady/Marte……..THAT was shortsighted.
Much rather have CG with his 25 HR, and going 5/11 in the ALDS, with his fixed mechanics+swing, and hitting lefties well now, rather than A-Jax with .297, 20 SB, but little or no power and struck out way more than Granderson(even if CG was injured for one month). I’d rather have CG this season, and much rather have CG next season.
Much rather have CG with his 25 HR, and going 5/11 in the ALDS, with his fixed mechanics+swing, and hitting lefties well now, rather than A-Jax with .297, 20 SB, but little or no power and struck out way more than Granderson(even if CG was injured for one month). I’d rather have CG this season, and much rather have CG next season.
I don’t get the trade Joba for prospects talk seen above. With all due respect to the other posters, the Yankees don’t trade for future talent – they try to win the World Series each year at the expense of the future.Winning a WS requires great short men, and next year:Mariano Rivera is 41 years oldKerry Wood is going to be a free agentDavid Robertson is under team controlJoba Chamberlain is under team controlIf they trade Joba, who would come back who will better protect the Yanks against Mariano waking up one day and throwing like most 41 year old pitchers throw? Find that option (Joakim Soria, maybe?) and that’s a viable trade option with Joba involved.More likely is the Yanks tossing Montero to whichever team can send them more pitching. That’s what they were trying to do earlier this year – get Cliff Lee by using a prospect to get a pitcher who can win games now.
Just because Joba is under team-control doesn’t mean he will ever replace Rivera and right now, he’s shown he can’t and will not ever do it.
What I was trying to convey is that with two of the other four short men in questionable situations for 2011, Joba is not going anywhere UNLESS a better short man comes back in the trade.As for replacing Mariano, he’s widely regarded as the best of all time at his position. So trying to replace him is like trying to replace Willie Mays. Joba will never replace Mariano, but neither will anyone else.Joba is a good short man who has had a bad season. I believe the Yanks will hold onto him until they’re sure they have something better. It’s not even an issue whether or not he closes. It is about having enough good short men in the pen.
Rather give Joba a shot to start than close. In a few years, David Phelps might be the yankees set-up man too
Rather give Joba a shot to start than close. In a few years, David Phelps might be the yankees set-up man too
If the Yankees make Joba available I could see the White Sox taking a chance on him.
The White Sox and Joba would be good for each other. Joba is exactly the kind of pitcher Cooper has success with too.
Alderson will be great for the Mets especially if he brings his steriods with him. HGH will work too! It is all a cover up for Sandy, Tony LaRusa and that gang of cheaters. Once baseball investigates these cheats and bans them from MLB we will have an honest game to believe in. Right now it is an unfortunate sham of have and have nots.
Roger Maris and Hank Arran are still kings.