The Cubs and Rays agreed today on an eight-player swap headlined by right-hander Matt Garza. Here's some early reaction and analysis of the big deal, including news of another team that had an offer for Garza on the table…
- ESPN's Keith Law (Insider subscription required) loves the trade for the Rays: "they got more for Garza than Kansas City did for Zack Greinke although their package of players is, collectively, further away than what the Royals got." Law had Hak-Ju Lee ranked as the top prospect in Chicago's system and calls the 20-year-old shortstop "the star of the deal" for Tampa Bay.
- The trade is a "slight overpay" for the Cubs, writes Fangraphs' Joe Pawlikowski, but overall he likes the deal. Pawlikowski also cites concerns about how Garza will fare at Wrigley Field given Garza's propensity for giving up fly balls.
- Kevin Kaduk of Yahoo Sports has no problem with the trade itself, but calls Garza just a "Band-Aid" on the Cubs' problems since he doesn't think Chicago is close to contending.
- Tampa Bay fans won't be pleased to see Garza go, but Erik Hahmann of the DRaysBay blog notes that Andrew Friedman has had success with past unpopular trades.
- Mike Bauman of MLB.com writes that the Rays organization is strong enough to recover from the losses of Garza, Carl Crawford, Carlos Pena and Jason Bartlett this winter.
- The Rangers made Tampa Bay an offer for Garza that offered "more 2011 impact," tweets Peter Gammons. The Cubs' prospect package, however, has a "higher longterm ceiling."
- A high-profile trade naturally invites some questions from fans wondering why their clubs didn't make a move for the star player in question. Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets that neither the Yankees or Mets contacted the Rays about Garza. Meanwhile, Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post hears from Baseball America's Jim Callis that the Nationals simply didn't have the minor league depth to match Chicago's package.
It’s a surprise the Mets didn’t call? We don’t really have the prospects to pull off a trade and not have it ravage the system.
I’m more surprised the Rangers didn’t call.
Apparently they did. Read above.
Still hate this trade.
The Cubs are still not close to the Reds, Cardinals & Brewers, what a poor year to try and compete. They really needed to go the other way and rebuild, theyre the Cubs not the Yankees, they can do that and no one will really care. Baffling move by them.
Meanwhile the Rays get 4 prospects to add to their 7 draft picks in the first 50 of the strongest draft class in recent memory, I’m really jealous of how well that team is run. Talk about doing all the right things.
Reds were terrible, 20-33 against above .500 teams last season, they just had a really easy schedule. Cardinals are screwed too. Brewers improved, but not enough. They are “close” to at least one of them. Not saying they are better, but you act like the Central’s top teams are actually good.
What exactly makes the Cardinals “screwed”?
Well, they have one of the worst defensive corner outfields in the game, they have a mediocre offense, but great pitching, oh, and they have no money and are going to have even less after extending Pujols.
Theriot as a starting SS should be your first hint.
I mean in the long-run BTW.
I hate the Cardinals, but Holliday + Pujols + Rasmus is not a mediocre offense. Sorry.
3 guys in a lineup of 9 can only win you so many ball games.
No, look at their team stats. Their offense if overall mediocre.
No, look at their team stats. Their offense if overall mediocre.
The Brewers had the #2 offense in the National League last year (OPS+) and are in the top 3 starting rotations in the NL now too. They are also young and have ridiculous upside. Yeah, they suck.
Fielder is their only hitter Ryan Rodgers and Cory Hart are garbage.. McGahee is dangerous in the clutch that about it
After July 31st Fielder is gone they got nothing
Weeks, hart, and braun were all more valuable than fielder last year. They have the best lineup in the central. I hate the cardinals, but they have a close second… question is can carpenter stay healthy another year? can garcia keep pitching at his first 1/2 of 2010 level? If so it’s a three team race. The Cubs have solidified 4th with this move.
hmm, so Braun, who hit for a .304 Avg .365 OBP a .501 SLG an OPS+ of 133 with 25 HRS and 103 RBIS and 101 Runs scored is garbage? Or McGehee, who had a .285 Avg .337 OBP .464 SLG an OPS+ of 116 with 23 HRs 104 RBIS and 70 Runs Scored is no good? Or Corey Hart with a .283 Avg .340 OBP .525 SLG an OPS+ of 132 with 31 HRs 102 RBIs and 91 Runs scored is nothing? How bout Rickie Weeks, and his .269 Avg .366 OBP .464 SLG an OPS+ of 125 29 HRs 83 RBIs and 112 Runs scored. That isnt including Prince’s numbers. Wait…whats that, where did the Brewers’ offense rank this last season???? Oh yeah thats right, 2nd, now with improvements to the rotation and pen, I’d say they have one of the most solid teams in the NL aside from the Phillies, not to mention their young guys are a year older and project to have better years.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Top 3? Seriously? STL, PHI, SF all off the top of my head beat Milwaukee.
Top 3? Seriously? STL, PHI, SF all off the top of my head beat Milwaukee.
The Brewers had the #2 offense in the National League last year (OPS+) and are in the top 3 starting rotations in the NL now too. They are also young and have ridiculous upside. Yeah, they suck.
That’s a could be a lot of young hitting coming their way (SS, 2B, 1B, & DH). Couple power bats outta do the trick.
Believe it or not, my reaction was: “Cool”.
Believe it or not, my reaction to your reaction is “meh”
I am hearing the pitcher the Cubs acquired in the trade is Matt Moore, Alex Torres, or Braulio Lara. All three are left handed pitchers in the the Rays top 10 prospects for 2011 according to Baseball America. As soon as I can confirm it I will post it. If this is the case you can then argue the Cubs got a better deal than everyone originally thought
…and you’re hearing this where? No chance it’s Matt Moore especially.
I will mess my pants if this isn’t bologna. However I’m 99% sure it is.
I have a feeling you are already messed your pants…soo it’s a moot point
I have a feeling you are already messed your pants…soo it’s a moot point
Sources are telling me the pitcher is Jeremy Hellickson. The outfielder was misreported as well, it’s actually Desmond Jennings.
if the Cubs got Jennings they need to move Fukudome and Soriano now..
You are Dan Meehan’s retarded cat…
Easier said than done. You can’t just move people. There are no trade clauses involved, not to mention the high dollar amount left on the contracts that have the annual value increase every year.
I wasn’t talking about trading Soriano they need to buy his contract out.. he’s owed about 78 mil give him have now and the rest over the course of the next 10 yrs… Fukudome they can get a low level player for him
if the Cubs got Jennings they need to move Fukudome and Soriano now..
Question who are you getting the info from? Or are you just making crap up?? Cause it’s not nice to get a Cubs fan’s hope up lol
Where are you getting your info?? Just curious, are you just making this crap up or are you having legit people you talk to? IDK it’s just not nice to get a Cubs’ Fans hopes up lol
Where are you getting your info?? Just curious, are you just making this crap up or are you having legit people you talk to? IDK it’s just not nice to get a Cubs’ Fans hopes up lol
I have some sources close within the Chicago sun times. The Cubs wanted a left handed pitching prospect. I would doubt its Moore. I have heard Torres’ name more then once. But we will have to see! This could turn out to be a great trade!
More likely it will be something like David Newmann, Kyle Lobstein, Ryan Reid, etc. All of those are pretty decent left-handers, but nothing really to get excited about. Its pretty much impossible that Matt Moore would be included in this deal, and Torres, McGee, etc. are not likely to be moved. Your best bet would probably be Torres, but I’m not totally sold on him anyways, so wouldn’t be a big lose.
we all know garza is good , but we dont know if these kids and some of the guys who got in on this deal arent kids anymore will be anygood that being said rays know talent
I wouldn’t worry too much about Garza’s fly ball tendencies. The wind blows in just as often as it blows out in Wrigley Field. Ted Lilly was a pretty extreme fly ball pitcher, home run problem and all, and he managed to post 3 solid seasons with the Cubs. Garza is a similar pitcher-solid K rate, low BB rate, gives up more home runs than you’d like, but also manages to keep enough batters off base. I think he’ll be a good pitcher for them.
It looks like the Cubs gave up a lot but Starlin Castro is the same age as the shortstop they traded. You might recall that he had a pretty decent rookie season for the Cubs in 2010.
They do get to keep Garza a few more years before he’s a free agent too. I don’t know if I’d do this deal, but I don’t think it’s that bad of a move either.
Castro’s 7 months older. Not that it matters, but I didn’t know Lee turned 20.
Garza had a 4.51 xFIP last year, no longer has the Rays defense, and is playing in a home run bandbox. Do the math.
That’s the funny thing about sabremetrics….they can’t predict the weather conditions in Wrigley Field and how it will effect flyballs.
xFIP? I’ll concern myself with the xFIP stat just as soon as they send pitchers out there without ANY defensive players.
The stats are all fun to play around with a speculate what they mean for the future, but I’m just not convinced they mean much of anything.
The Cubs will have about $40mil after 2011 to play with, and if they can trade Z, they’ll have close to $60mil. I don’t see why Hendry didn’t just decided to play 2011 as-is, because even the addition of Garza doesn’t give them a much better shot of contending. A lot of Cubs fans keep using the word “blocked”, especially when talking about Lee, as if Castro can’t take his suspect glove to 2B. W/an unreliable Z and aging Dempster, holding onto Archer would’ve most certainly helped too, even if he does pan out as a closer. If this were a team in need of one more piece; a team ready to contend…this trade would’ve made perfect sense.
This is a move for the future. Cheaper #2-3 option for a team that will likely contend in 2012 and 2013 considering the FA markets.
cheap? You do realize how much he’ll be making with arb by then, right?
He still a good option for the Cubs….and were not the Rays, we can afford him.
It may be a cheaper alternative for now (alluding to what Jntg4 said), but the Ricketts have stated their plan is to build through the farm system. Forget Guyer and Chirinos, Archer and Lee most likely would’ve been on the big league roster soon and could’ve been significant contributors. We don’t know if they would’ve panned out, but you don’t partially ditch your plan for just a good pitcher.
I suppose Lee would have majors if they wanted to move Castro, assuming they did, that is. And they’re the Cubs (they’re a major market team). What will you say next year if they go after a big time FA and overpay…that they’ve ditched their plan because they’re blocking someone from the farm system. Hmmm…..
I think the Cubs would’ve moved Castro to 2B, or Lee would’ve played 2B. Prospects switch positions when they get to the majors all the time, so I don’t think the Cubs would’ve traded Lee simply because he and Castro play the same position. As far as spending big money on FA, I wouldn’t be opposed to that because–like you said–they’re a big market team. As long as that FA isn’t another Soriano, Fukudome, or Bradley, and is an actual stud, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Also, I don’t think the Cubs would sign a FA knowing they have a home-grown kid locked into that position already (Castro or Soto). They wouldn’t sign a SS or C and then move Castro to RF or Soto to 2B ; the Cubs are insane, not stupid. I think…
I like Law’s point that KC got less for Greinke than TB got for Garza, granted Greinke had more of a limited selection of teams to go to…still believe it was a stupid knee-jerk reaction from KC, but that’s to be expected.
I see Jefress + Odorizzi being as good as Archer long-term, and Escobar >= Lee basically, so i don’t get how Greinke fetched less.
If he means that KC got less than they SHOULD have got, and TB got more than they SHOULD have got, i agree
bitter Jays fan. Talking about prospects (with what a less than 50% success rate into the bigs) and wins or losses of trades involving prospects is a waste of time. Get back to us in a few years.
I think this is one of those trades that works out for both teams. Jim Hendry is yet to give up too much in a trade in his tenure, so I trust his ability to make blockbuster deals. That being said, Tampa Bay got many players who project to be, at the very least, useful. The one thing I don’t quite understand is the necessity for them to acquire Lee, they have Reid Brignac and Tim Beckham already and I think that a power-hitting 1b like Vitters might have fit their needs more? If Lee really wound up being more of a throw-in for the trade, then this was a dumb trade for the Cubs
Worst trade of the year so far. Cubs lose their farm, great trade for the Rays. Cubs are doomed to finsih fourth again, and in two years will have no system to pull from, Bad trade Cub fans,
Hmm? So you think Sergio Mitre, Renyel Pinto and Ricky Nolasco was not too much to trade for a one-year rental of Juan Pierre?
Vitters is a power-hitting prospect who has shown absolutely no ability to hit for power or, you know, be a real prospect.
Lee wasn’t a throw-in for anybody; he’s one of the stars of this deal and I doubt it gets done without him. Why would Tampa take him when they have Brignac and Beckham already? Because unlike the Cubs, they aren’t stupid. They’re perfectly happy to have a super-cheap alternative under their control for more than a half decade, which allows them to move one of those guys to fill holes while simultaneously LOWERING their payroll.
Granted, the Cubs don’t need to play as carefully with their payroll as the Rays do, but if they, say, signed Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Zambrano to outrageous contracts they’ll never live up to, having young, cheap players to fill other positions allows them to NOT be financially hamstrung for years. Sure, those contracts will likely be off the books are just about to be off the books by the time Lee would have been up in Chicago, but there is always the rather distinct possibility that given the payroll to make some more major moves, Hendry flubs it with bad contracts again and needs a bail out.
I’ve never said this before. I’ve always been somewhat of a defender, but I think it’s time to get on the bandwagon: It’s time for Jim Hendry to go.
Woah there, I wasn’t trying to spark an argument. I realize how good a player Hak-Ju Lee is; I am just surprised that he was one of the centerpieces of this deal with the Rays already having Tim Beckham and Reid Brignac. As for the Juan Pierre trade, the Cubs traded 3 unknown products for a known product, and got exactly what they were hoping for. Yes both Mitre and Nolasco panned out to be solid major leaguers, but if those are the biggest mistakes he traded away in his tenure, I think it’s safe to say MOST GMs have given up even bigger mistakes in trades.
However, that being said, I still agree that it is time to move on from Hendry. He has really handicapped this team with horrendous contracts. But I am not going to condemn his trading ability. 95% of all Cubs fans would say that Hendry has done far more good than evil with his trades. But 100% would say Hendry has been the worst GM in baseball when it comes to contracts.
Notable good Hendry trades.
Bobby Hill, Jose Hernandez, and Matt Brubeck for ARAM AND KENNY LOFTON
Hee-sop Choi for Derek Lee
Mark DeRosa for Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer, and John Gaub
Milton Bradley for Carlos Silva
Ted Lilly and Ryan Theriot for Blake DeWitt, Brett Wallach, and Kyle Smit
I doubt anyone can name 5 bad Hendry trades that are as significant as these good Hendry trades.
Beckham is having a Matt Bush-like start to his career
What I find interesting is how many people are willing to downplay how well Garza will do as a Cub because they hate Hendry. He’s made some lousy moves here and there, but, outside of Carlos Zambrano’s extension, many, if not most of his starting pitching moves over the last few years have looked pretty good. Dempster’s deal? Looks very solid. Picking up Silva for malcontent Bradley? Something for nothing. Ted Lilly’s four year deal? One of the best value-to-dollars free agent pitching deals in recent memory. Gorzelanny’s acquisition? Seems pretty sharp in hindsight. Rich Harden for Murton, Patterson, et al.? Terrific deadline move for low cost. Fangraphs has even Jason Marquis listed as being worth more than they paid for him his during two years as a Cub.
I’m all for slagging Hendry when he outbids himself for second-tier guys like Soriano or obsesses over guys like Peavy and Roberts while other players who’d fit are more easily available. But hasn’t he kind of earned a little credit, at least where his starting pitching acquisitions are concerned?
I totally agree and it’s like the same people are willing to give the division to the Cards, Reds, or Brewers while putting the Cubs near the basement. What I mean is that the Cards, Reds and Brewers still have problems folks. The Cards defensively stink. The jury’s out on the Reds SP, and what has Greinke done yet in a pressure situation. Garza’s pitched in the playoffs and if memory serves me, fared pretty well. Now, granted the Cubs aren’t going to win the division with this team, but the could be more of a contender than people think. I don’t think Garza’s a “band-aid” as this article alludes.
It has nothing to do with hating Hendry, sourbob. I think everybody here firmly believes that Garza will do extremely well for the Cubs.
It’s about what he gave up, and when he gave it up–at a time when a team that should be waiting out its horrible contracts and easing some of these exact young guys into our lineup is instead making moves to compete in a division where they have to leapfrog no less than three teams to do so; teams who–even after this trade–all look to be AT LEAST as good and most better than the Cubs. A package that most feel was more than it took to acquire Zack Greinke, who is quite probably a better pitcher (and who is now pitching in the NL Central against the Cubs).
Take a look at the bullet points on this article: Love the trade for the Rays; slight overpay for the Cubs; no problem with the trade but it shouldn’t have been made at this point in time; trust the Rays to make good trades; higher long-term ceiling than other offers. I’m not claiming baseball writers are the end-all be-all analysis, nor that these particular writers represent the best wisdom on this or any other issue — but I do think it’s telling that not one of them said “yeah, nice move Jim!” The only one of them who didn’t say the Rays won the trade to some degree also said it shouldn’t have been made.
Garza will be great for the Cubs. That doesn’t mean it was a good trade.
I certainly am aware of the argument that the Cubs overpaid. I wasn’t addressing that, though. I was only speaking about the recurring sentiments in the Garza-related threads that Garza is overrated or doomed to fail in Wrigley or what have you. Please trust that I don’t mean this to sound snarky, but I was really only talking about what I was talking about.
It has nothing to do with hating Hendry, sourbob. I think everybody here firmly believes that Garza will do extremely well for the Cubs.
It’s about what he gave up, and when he gave it up–at a time when a team that should be waiting out its horrible contracts and easing some of these exact young guys into our lineup is instead making moves to compete in a division where they have to leapfrog no less than three teams to do so; teams who–even after this trade–all look to be AT LEAST as good and most better than the Cubs. A package that most feel was more than it took to acquire Zack Greinke, who is quite probably a better pitcher (and who is now pitching in the NL Central against the Cubs).
Take a look at the bullet points on this article: Love the trade for the Rays; slight overpay for the Cubs; no problem with the trade but it shouldn’t have been made at this point in time; trust the Rays to make good trades; higher long-term ceiling than other offers. I’m not claiming baseball writers are the end-all be-all analysis, nor that these particular writers represent the best wisdom on this or any other issue — but I do think it’s telling that not one of them said “yeah, nice move Jim!” The only one of them who didn’t say the Rays won the trade to some degree also said it shouldn’t have been made.
Garza will be great for the Cubs. That doesn’t mean it was a good trade.
More pitching for the National League.
C- Yorvit Torrealba
1B- Moreland
2B- Kinsler
3B- Beltre
SS- Andrus
RF- Cruz
CF- Murphy?/Borbon?
LF- Hamilton
DH- Young
Not bad
Haha, the Cubs got screwed.
Wow, I didnt hear this one yet!! AL east looks totally different than last year! Except those Yankees who didnt do anything yet really except Russell Martin, and he isnt changing the division!
As a fan I’ve never been impressed by Hendry as a GM. But, I think getting Garza was a smart move. Garza is a decent, proven 200 inning horse of a starter. The Cubs after Dempster have questions & crap. Cubs prospects are hardly ever worth anything. Garza’s pretty young, and if the unknown player is decent then this is a good deal. All of the OF’s in the deal are non-starters, Archer, maybe will be a decent reliever, the catcher is 27 but may be a decent platoon type catcher, Lee is skinny, tall, 20, and about 3 years from even playing in the majors. Remember, he’s coming from the Cubs. I’d do this deal again as a Cub fan.
its a stupid trade.. Hak-Ju Lee i heard is supposed to be better then Castro and Castro was horrible in the field 20 something error with one game hm having 4 out of the teams 6.. I still feel Castro was two yrs away from being ready.. Garza is apparently “controlled through 2013 and 2014 will be the first year since 2003 the Cubs will have a good team.. 2008 was good but Hendry basically has a fire sale and traded the players that got them to be that good
You’ve lost all credibility with the Castro readiness comment. Who said Lee would be better than Castro? He’s at least 2 years away anyways.
Defensively Lee is supposed to be better; he’s generally believed to be a gold-glover shortstop RIGHT NOW in his development. Offensively he’s more raw, but has a ton more speed.
Let’s put it this way: Rather than calling him better or worse than Castro, let’s say that Lee was the kind of prospect who made you think seriously about moving Castro to another position.
Better only defensively, he is a slap hitter where Castro absolutely projects as a much better hitter with more power. Also, Lee had a ton of errors himself, he makes fantastic plays and then boots easy grounders. He is not ready for maybe two years, if he changes his hitting style. He will be eaten alive by major league pitching unless he changes his approach a bit at the plate. He is raw and a prospect, a good one, but rated probably a B
its a stupid trade.. Hak-Ju Lee i heard is supposed to be better then Castro and Castro was horrible in the field 20 something error with one game hm having 4 out of the teams 6.. I still feel Castro was two yrs away from being ready.. Garza is apparently “controlled through 2013 and 2014 will be the first year since 2003 the Cubs will have a good team.. 2008 was good but Hendry basically has a fire sale and traded the players that got them to be that good
Notice how all Cubs fans can talk about is how Garza is durable? Hahaha!!!
Maybe that’s because we heard Greg Maddux say the most important stat of a starting pitcher is innings pitched.
Thats what’s most important to a pitcher, that and wins, but to show how great a pitcher is you need to use stats and splits that give the pitcher justification of being “great” Unless you consider James Shields great with 200+ innings pitched, with a 5.18 era giving up 244 hits, while walking 51 with a WHIP of 1.28 and giving up 34 HRs in 33 starts. So saying IP is the most important stat, is hardly the truth. the most important thing for a pitcher, is to put his team in position to win as much as possible. To judge a great pitcher from other pitchers, you need stats, not opinions.
I think his point was the same. Usually if you pitch 220 innings, you are going deep into games and giving your team a chance to win.
I think his point was the same. Usually if you pitch 220 innings, you are going deep into games and giving your team a chance to win.
Notice how all Cubs fans can talk about is how Garza is durable? Hahaha!!!
NL Central is quickly becoming a top division for pitching. Brewers with Grienke, Marcum, and Gallardo; Cardinals with Wainwright, Carpenter, and Garcia; Reds with Volquez, Arroyo, and Cueto; Cubs with Garza, Zambrano, and Dempster; Astros with Rodriguez, Happ, and Myers; Pirates with….well they are the Pirates.
1. Gallardo
2. Grienke
3. Wolf/Marcum
4. Wolf/Marcum
5. Chris Narveson
Milwaukee is pretty straight at the SP position.
It’s going to be a great summer in Milwaukee!!
Well, they say Garza has a temper. Maybe Big Z can calm him down. 😉
I’ve taken some time to think about this trade, and I can honestly say that I like it now.
My initial reaction was: WTF?? Why so many of our top prospects, Jimmy-boy? Now that I look at it without emotion, I can see that it was a smart move. None of the prospects he gave up is a can’t-miss type of player and at least two of them are on the wrong side of 25 (and Guyer will be soon). No longer prospects at this point. Lee is the only one of any real value to the organization. Quality shortstops are always at a premium. Personally, I am not sold on Archer. This was his first quality season and that is more likely a fluke than anything else.
The only downside I can see to this trade is that it seems like a nice enough bounty to have captured Adrian Gonzalez or Zach Greinke. On the other hand, Garza will give us production close to Zach Greinke at half the price. Gonzalez is another matter and I would have given away our entire farm for him, if an extension was guaranteed. He is other-worldly.
Anywho, my opinion is that both teams came away winners at the end of the day. We will see who actually won this trade sometime near the end of 2013. Hopefully Hendry is still around to see the fruits of his labors.
I am very interested to see what Hendry’s next move is, which in the end impacts how this deal is viewed as well. The Cubs now have quite a few MLB ready pitchers shooting for 2 spots in Silva, Gorzelanny, Wells, Cashner, and Shark (and a few almost ready arms as well) and I would expect them to deal 1 or 2 very quickly following the completion of this deal. Hendy’s shortcomings as a GM stem from his FA signing, but he has always been pretty descent at ending up on the winning end of his trades. That being said, I can’t imagine that he agreed to this deal unless he already has the growned work in place to move at least 1 of the other arms. Whether that brings back someone who can help right now (M Young?) or a couple of prospects to rebuild some of what he gave up in this deal… we’ll have to wait and see, but I don’t think we’ll have to wait very long. I woundn’t even be suprised to see Big Z to the Yanks rumors start popping up again.
The Cubs make a hell of a move if they somehow could move big Z to New York. Send 10 million to New York and let them have him for nothing. People might think he has something left in the tank.
I think that people are missing the point. As reported it’s a 8 player trade 5 for 3. the Cubs gave up Chris Archer and Lee for Garza. The two older prospects they gave up had career years at AA and are blocked in the system. The Cubs will get two fillers for their system. Sam Fuld was included because he was out of options and probably wouldn’t have made the 25 man roster or would have made it and then been cut once Brett Jackson is ready. So we have an essentially 2 top prospects for a #2 pitcher in the NL Central.
This move in my opinion is more about 2012. The Cubs have about 52 million coming off the books. They will have three quality starters locked up till 2013/14 and money to go after their two biggest needs at 2b and 1b. Those two classes are potentially great with Pujols and Agonz and guys at 2b potentially in Cano, Kelly Johnson, Brandon Phillips, Aaron Hill, etc. I’m not saying they will all be out there but if one from each position is there the Cubs will go after them.
Also the 2012 starting pitching class is very weak with only one ace in Chris Carpenter. The Cubs then don’t have to spend their money trying to outbid the Yanks, Red Sox, etc. They’ve solidified their roster.
As far as what they are truly losing in Archer and Lee. Archer is the one that hurts. He is a potential #1 starter, but he lacks a off speed pitch that is high quality. I bet TB makes him their closer, otherwise as a starter he is a couple of years away for sure. As far as Lee is concerned, he is a young defensive specialist with a weak bat. He is a slap and run hitter. He is a big question mark as far as the offense goes.
That’s my thought, I think it’s a fairly even trade that will honestly help the Cubs position themselves better for 2012. Also, let’s be honest as far as the Brewers, Red and Cardinals go, all of these teams have holes in them. Anyone, but the Pirates could have this division if the pieces fall in place for them.
Well I do agree with you that the Cubs made this move for the future, I don`t think they will actually be able to go after Pujols. I bet you if they don`t lock him up(which seems as if they won`t), the Cubs will probably make a run at Fielder. Perhaps if Johnson or Weeks have good years than maybe they`ll go after one of them as well. Also the look for Hendry to be looking at Edwin Jackson as well because he will only be 28.
Rickie Weeks is staying in Milwaukee.
Bet That!