After speaking with president of baseball operations John Hart, David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution writes that the team could be aiming for a brief rebuild with an eye on the 2017 campaign.
The Braves’ top priority is to add a couple of starting pitchers that could step into the rotation. However, they’re better positioned, financially, to do that on the trade market, which would likely require dealing some established players, as the team doesn’t have a particularly deep farm system in the way of MLB-ready talent. O’Brien writes that one plan could be to trade both Jason Heyward and Justin Upton, with Evan Gattis sliding into left field and Christian Bethancourt handling everyday catching duties. Hart’s preference is to retain Gattis due to the four years of team control he has remaining.
O’Brien also adds that the Braves appear willing to listen to offers for any reliever with the exception of Craig Kimbrel, specifically listing Jordan Walden and David Carpenter as potential candidates. FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal tweeted earlier tonight that the Braves might have interest in moving a relief arm for a back-of-the-rotation starter. That would provide them with some much-needed innings next season, as the team is currently thin beyond Julio Teheran, Alex Wood and Mike Minor. Swingman David Hale could move into the rotation again, and the Braves have Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy as options with little certainty.
i unortunately agree with this for our future
I read somewhere that the Braves are looking to platoon Johnson at 3B. Why then, did they sign him to an extension in the first place?!
The same reason Uggla got a extension and B-UP got that contract.
In Wren we don’t trust
Wren wasn’t bad with trades but horrible with contracts.
Well, to be completely fair, he traded for Uggla knowing what it would take to sign him. So I don’t think you can absolve his trading acumen of that one; if he was already signed to that deal, he would still have traded the exact same amount for him, logically.
how much blame does John Schuerholz get though, I doubt BJ upton was just Wren’s idea was it?
Well, Charlie Morton, Jeff Locke, and Brett Oberholtzer are exactly the kind of back-end arms we’re about to give up some valuable assets to try and attain.
*see Adam Wainwright
That was Schuerholz, not Wren.
I don’t think anyone can blame the Uggla contract. Everyone assumed it was a steal. Did it turn ugly (Uggly)? Yes obviously. But a lot of you need to try thinking back to when the deal went down. Did you hear anyone complaining about it? Not only did you not complain about it but I doubt you remember anyone complaining about it. Most figured the Braves got away with robbery on that one, both in terms of the trade and the extension. Uggla was basically an AS at a thin position back then.
I will never fault Wren for the Uggla deal. BJ Upton though. I mean what are you really thinking? What goes through your mind?
The Uggla trade fine but the extension was bad before the ink dried it was too large for a defensive liability. I got heckled for saying it back then and even got heckled for saying B-Up isn’t worth more than 4/44. Both of them turned out worse than even I expected and I was definitely lower on them than most people.
Obviously, they weren’t foreseeing platooning him at 3B. They signed him to an extension after finishing runner-up for the NL batting title (2013) and were hoping for progression, not regression. It was a risk.
It was clear he would severely regress in the BA dept considering his BABIP was severely inflated in 2013.
Thus, a risk. But one worth taking seeing as how the 3B market was/is. It’s not a deal that Wren will be remembered for.
How about Carlos Martinez, Peter Bourjos, and a B level prospect for Heyward or upton and walden
hmm intriguing
or if you want to go blockbuster, a similar version was kicked around on a cardinals board earlier, Carlos Martinez, Trevor Rosenthal, Peter Bourjos, and Rob Kaminsky (ranked 90ish on top 100 lists lhp) for Heyward, Walden and Kimbrel. Worth considering or hung up on right away?
no thanks
oooh i dont know about trading kimbre since we have until with our ball park coming soon so i like the first one better i think
yah didn’t think so, couldn’t help but dream.
I don’t see the point of having a good closer on a rebuilding team
That was my thinking if your rebuilding for 2017 it’s seems Kimbrel is a luxury they don’t need. Relievers are great until they’re not, no guarantee that Kimbrel will be the elite closer he is today 3 years from now.
Sorry, more case of overvaluing prospects.
Maybe if you toss in Matt Carpenter I mean damn. Bourjos is looking like nothing but a 4th OF lately. So we’re trading two of our best and most popular players for someone of slightly less value than Kimbrel in Rosenthal and getting two pitchers, one who’ll probably end up in the bullpen and one who was in single-a last year.
I could see the Braves going for Kimbrel and Heyward for Gonzales and Carpenter though. Granted y’all could successfully sign JHey to an extension of course. Though I’d rather keep Craig personally.
Yah carpenter is part of the core can’t see cards trading him. Martinez and Rosenthal both have futures as starters just not on the cardinals. But given that Kimbrel is the second best closer in the game I could see why Atlanta wouldn’t trade him.
bourjos had a pretty terrible year, you can keep him
No thanks, we already have a bad center fielder who can’t hit.
I wonder what a combo of one of the worst (THE worst?) contracts in baseball along with a power hitting catcher/DH with 4 years of team control remaining could realistically fetch. A #3 starter?
Arod is currently the worst contract in baseball
true story
I’m not quite sure Joey Votto, Prince Fielder, Matt Cain all look considerably worse
i wouldnt say votto yet tho that is alot of money but votto can still be very very good for plenty of years
I’m not quite sure. Of course Votto has a chance to be productive for a few more years but he has around 200 million dollars left on his contract and he is coming back from an injury which cost him around 100 games. So what kind of production he is capable of upon returning from an injury is unclear but that’s a lot of money to spend on an unknown. But think of it from this perspective if the Reds never signed Votto to that contract they most likely would of been able to hammer out contract extensions for their starting pitchers such as Cueto. So the thing that makes this contract even worse is that it could be the factor that hinders them from retaining Cueto.
i kinda agree later in his contract it will be a bad one but early on not yet
Yeah I would not put Votto in that group just yet. He is still more than capable of putting elite numbers.
Votto actually does decent for the money he got, Fielder is a mess, and Matt Cain is just done.
you’re right, but as a braves fan it’s hard to fathom ANY contract being worse when you have to watch BJ play everyday
oh I know I gotcha, just trying to let you know it could be worse. And that contract couldn’t have happened to a better franchise than the yankees.;)
Bad as that contract is, I’d take ARod and cash in exchange for BJ.
Untrue is go by WAR. Not a perfect grade, but ARod is more positive than say Ryan Howard, and only $3MM more. If ARod plays 100+, he’ll be worth it for average offense. Sure, he’s a headache, but the man consistently hits.
I would still like them to try and extend Justin Upton since he’s been the most consistent out of the bunch..
I’m actually hoping he gets traded. We aren’t in a position to win next year and he’d cost too much to resign. May as well deal him for talent we can rebuild with.
The Braves are biding time until they moves into the new stadium in 2017, and until then they aren’t really going out of their way to win, which is why they didn’t try to replace Tim Hudson. They aren’t trading Justin Upton, everyone can forget about that.
If they are biding their time till 2017, why would the keep Upton who has 1 year left on his contract and let him walk for nothing? Makes no sense. He will get traded for sure.
If they let him walk, they at least would get a comp pick. They better be at least that from all those screaming “rental” or it’s not worth it, not including throwing a few wins in 2015 out the door.
Getting a mere comp pick for Upton would be an epic fail.
Sure, but it’s not “nothing”. Trout was a comp pick.
LOL that’s a paragon of “exception to the rule”
yeah under the old system when the Yanks signed Tex that draft pick became Trout.
Which would have been the Braves had they not traded Tex. And we’ve gone full circle.
yeah but with the new system he wouldn’t of netted the Angels Trout and if he didn’t turn down 140 million for 8 years he would of stayed in Texas. You do realize the Angels had back to back picks and the 23 pick was the Mets pick which they gave up for K Rod so full circle would of been the Mets picking Trout out of New Jersey
espeically when he puts up the big numbers.
Why does everyone want Upton to go to another team? He’s not going anywhere. Everyone assumes or is pushing for him to be traded.
Upton being traded is fait accompli, I’d put $ on it
They should trade away Upton this offseason, keep Heyward until the trade deadline and deal him then.
j-up to seattle st louiis texas boston?
I wonder if some combo of J-Up and CJ could fetch Kyle Seager? Perhaps prospects or cash needs to be added?
hmmm possibly maybe j up for walker and 2 other good prospects
I’m sure teams are a bit hesitant on Walker, he’s had shoulder issues
oh thats right either way we will be targetting good pitching in a trade for jason or justin
Haha can you tell how badly I want CJ gone? Not a fan of that extension considering he’s a high K, low power guy who also doesnt hit for average
i want him gone too!!!! lol
Sooo many bad contracts on this team, it’s frustrating. BJ and CJ need to go.
i think bj goes if we get a bad contract in return cj idk
Just need to make it a package deal. I.e. choose one of Gattis/JUp/Heyward to go along with BJ/CJ.
yep! and for who?
That’s the tough part. JUp, CJ, and prospect for Seager and Saunders?
hmmm maybe!
Seager isn’t going anywhere. And they’re certainly not including Saunders and taking a brutal CJ to help grease the wheels. This is way off.
Every indication is that they want Saunders gone in a hurry for whatever reason.
The whatever reason is Jack Z. publicly throwing him under the bus for his lack of conditioning. Pretty good reason, if you ask me.
While, by itself, that is true, they’re not packaging an asset that they can actually get something for along with taking on a bad player with a bad contract that Atlanta doesn’t want — for the privilege of swapping players to get the more expensive one who’s not as good and who plays a less valuable position.
Ok i got this. first off seager will not be included in any trade. i got a couple for you that could be fair and equal value see if you like them. seattle receives justin and bj Upton, braves get ronelis elias, v ictor sanchez, ty kelly, and ketel marte and austin jackson. #2.
I think Kubitza will be at least platooning with CJ by the end of the year.
Well seattle has 3 guys in our farm system with low strike out rates that can get on. get on base that can help with that. i like braves fans theyre not rude or have to resort to childish name calling to make a point
Having shoulder issues or TJ is a prerequisite to taking the mound at Turner.
Do you guys realize how good Seager is, and that Upton is a free agent after 2015? Walker alone would net more than Upton.
It would be contingent upon signing Upton to an extension. I didnt mention Walker, I would probably agree.
If Upton signed an extension I agree that the return would be better, but I can’t see any team convincing him not to test free agency. Won’t be many hitters on the market next offseason either.
Yeah, no way you get Seager. He’s staying for a long time.
Anything for Upton would likely require an extension, otherwise, you likely wouldn’t even get someone like Walker. Not worth it for one year.
The one other thing I read that I agree with, is that any trade for Upton is going to first require an explanation from J-Up as to why he vetoed a trade to them 2 years ago.
I think part of J-Up vetoing the trade 2 years ago has might have something to do with how far out of contention M’s were and why M’s aren’t on his no trade list now. I could be wrong though.
No, I think you might be right. Just definitely something that would be worth asking in case he loathes Seattle or something. I do think you’re right though.
I think Cards and braves are natural partners we need an outfielder, you have two to deal, we have too much pitching, braves can always use more. My concerns is one giving up a lot of control for a year contract, and with Heyward how low his power fell last year. Do you think that’s an aberration or was something wrong with him? With Upton I’ve heard Braves fans question his work ethic, concerned that he’s not a guy to lock up long term.
i think heyward’s power will definately devlop as his career goes forward it might be his swing not sure and j up he did makes some lazy defensive plays but other than that i love him but he does strike out plenty
You say that, but you have no idea some of the trade talk going on. If you have that mindset going into the Meetings, you’re walking out of there with Luis Valbuena and 2 C-level pitching prospects, and no Upton.
Just because you don’t like him, it doesn’t mean somebody else would
The Braves could really turn 2015 into a bridge year if they got creative enough. Trade off their entire OF, and Gattis for ML ready prospects or young players. J-UP and Heyward could probably fetch you a cost controlled SP and OF prospects to replace them all, while Gattis can just be used to clear salary on BJ…That gives them payroll flexibility and a young team to go for it in 2016 and beyond
All really good ideas. They already have talented young arms, they just need them to stay healthy. Their bullpen is solid to say the least. Bethancourt is a wiz kid behind the plate, same with simmons at short. If they could find a way to unload Johnson somehow and maybe sign Headley instead, this team could be a pitching and defensive force for the next 3-7 years.
Had the same thought. Would love to get Headley and dump CJ.
Headley could get real expensive if the Red Sox miss out on Sandoval and Ramirez…Do you think the Braves would win a bidding war between the Red Sox and Yankees?
Basically Braves would need to unload some payroll somewhere to have a shot at Headley, so unlikely it happens. Braves would need to eat some of CJ’s saley to move him also.
I got a trade proposal for the braves fans. i am a mariners fan so tell me if this is something you would do or change it. seattle receives justin upton braves receives gabby guerrero, tajuan walker patrick kivelian and Michael saunders
I am not a Braves fan, but a team that would need a bridge year would most likely have no interest in a guy with 2 years left. Upton is a huge trade chip for any acquiring team, and could fill a hole for numerous team. Based on team needs I think it would take Walker & Peterson.
Sorry peterson is not on the table. 1# no gaurantee tthat upton extends contract and with one year left. 2# peterson is our future 1st baseman. and no I’m not over valuing our prospects its just reality. walker alone is at least 4 years of team control alone and someone that can build a team around. ill redo the proposal when your ready with urs
Yeah, you’re not getting that. Upton was going to be traded for Walker, Franklin, Furbush, and Pryor before, and that was when Upton had 3 years of control left and before Walker became part of the Major League rotation.
Yes, Upton has gotten better, but they could also go sign Tomas and keep their prospects. They also wouldn’t include Walker in a trade for Price, and he had two years left of control.
Peterson might be a stretch to add on, but Walker is a must, and the M’s system is a little top-heavy, but the outline would be Upton + for Walker and a top hitting prospect in the OF, I don’t think Guerrero is enough as a second piece
oof, I’d trade for that.
Danks and 6 mill for Avilan or Russel or Venters straight up
hmm maybe
Sox need a lefty reliever so I figured there could be something there. Maybe if Sox pay up to 5 mill for each of the next 2 seasons?
i actually wouldnt mind that trade
Braves are suppose to be looking for a lefty this winter also.
Starter?
Reliever but if Braves are punting the 2015 season it might not matter that much anymore.
You do know Venters is coming off his 2nd TJ surgery…err…nevermind. Deal.
Actually didn’t know that
Third surgery
Trading Heyward would be a HUGE HUGE mistake,he can hit and he’s the best defensive outfielder in league.I see message board fodder saying Seattle may be a likely trade partner to send Gattis for a boat load in return…Nightmare scenario is they trade Heyward and J-Up and keep BJ
we wont have any choice if he gets too expensive
I agree with most of that, I live in Seattle but also follow the Royals and Braves. I think they should either release BJ and put Gattis in the OF, somewhere, put Hey in CF, and Justin back in RF? Or trade Gattis here to Seattle, the team would probably make the ALCS? The Braves just need Seitzer to get the lineup going, and if Freddie can’t figure out how to get the lineup going, they should find a new manager. I think the team just needs another year, and it needs some starters. They won’t trade Justin Upton.
Upton will be the first one to go, book it.
definately one will go not sure who i would guess upton as well
Maybe they cut BJ, but it might not be into mid or post 2015? I think he deserves one more opening day with the Braves. If you think they are worried about the money, you’re wrong. It’s about putting Gattis in the OF. Heyward and Justin aren’t going anywhere!
JUSTIN Upton
I do agree with you however with both Heyward and J-Up testing the FA market next offseason that scenario is highly likely, especially if Hart really does intend to punt the 2015 season and go for 2016-17. I think both of their worth is higher on the trade block rather than the compensation draft pick. Best case is probably J-Up gets traded and Heyward stays for 1 more year then walks to FA. And yeah, I seriously doubt BJ is going anywhere.
A trade of either Heyward or Upton with the Padres seems inevitable. It’s a logical fit
For whom in return?
Cameron Maybin!!! Kiss the sky! Oh yeah!
Andrew Cashner pls.
Why is everyone hoping that the new GM guts the team? Most of you must hate the Braves! He’s not there to cherrypick the roster for the rest of the league! Justin Upton and Heyward aren’t going anywhere!
we are being realistic we are not going to be able to keep both heyward and justin long term so we have to trade one of them one way or another maybe both
You won one championship 20 years ago, you haven’t made it past the NLDS since 2001, you’re not the class of the national league. This isn’t the 90s anymore. It’s about to be 2015. A mid market team like the Braves can’t afford to poorly allocate 30 million (BJ and Uggla). No matter how much you kick and scream their bad investments are in all likelihood going to result in losing one of Upton and Heyward. They have good young talent, but unless they can find an extra 30 million to keep that core around it’s time to deal one of them.
WE HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY FOR THEM. How can people not get that? we can’t pay them Dodger money because we are stuck with BJ’s contract and Dan Uggla’s contract.
Rosterbation – The M’s send Taijuan Walker, D.J. Peterson and Michael Saunders to the Braves for Upton and one of Heyward/Gattis. I bet Mariners fans would be okay with this, but does it make Braves fans cringe?
From the Mariners side, I would take Upton and Heyward if they both extended. It would hurt losing DJ, but that’s about the only time I would think about it.
Michael Saunders has a knack for winding up on the DL and when he is healthy, he’s been a streaky hitter at best. I’d hope the Braves say no to him if his name ever came up in a potential deal.
If you can sign Heyward and JUp to extensions, do it now. If they make it clear that the Braves will be unable to sign them prior to their FA…they should both be traded.
Gattis should be traded regardless.
Braves don’t have that kind of money, to lock up both JUpton and Heyward. May not have enough to lock up either.
No ones mentioned this but….
Thoughts on trading Freeman for a kings ransom in top prospects/ young controled talent?
The money saved can be used to extned Heyward and JUpton
So Heyward, Upton +top prospects or Freeman?
No. Especially not after they signed him to that contract.
He still has a lot of value. The Redsox gave up Anthony Rizzo and another top prospect (who was a bust) for Adrian Gonzales agreeing to a contract extension
Braves don’t have the payroll of the Red Sox. And I was by no means insinuating that Freeman’s contract was a bad one, just that they wouldnt have extended him only to trade him away.
“Braves don’t have the payroll of the Red Sox”
Yes I know, I was refering to the fact that Freeman’s contract doesn’t deduct his value. If the Padres got that kind of return for Agon the Braves could too.
And yea you have a point with them not wanting to trade Freeman but idk if It makes the most sense for the long term why not?
Fan favorite, one of the few good contracts on the team, and lives the hug life. He ins’t going anywhere.
I hear ya, just a thought
but the problem is the Freeman contract is team friendly.
At $127MM through 2021, they wouldn’t get a king’s ransom for him. That type of return is reserved for guys who are signed well below market.
Freeman’s an excellent first baseman, but the Braves paid what was basically market value to extend him. His contract isn’t bad, there’s just not a ton of surplus value in it either. It’s also kind of tough to give someone the “face of the franchise” label and trade him 10 months later.
I also doubt the savings would be enough to extend either Heyward or Upton. Heyward wanted more than Freeman got on his extension to sign last offseason, and he’s 12 months from being a 26-year-old free agent. Upton’s going to hit the open market heading into his age-28 season next year, and will be positioned to top that figure as well.
“At $127MM through 2021, they wouldn’t get a king’s ransom for him. That type of return is reserved for guys who are signed well below market.”
This isn’t always true. How many times does a premium position player like Freeman hit free agency? Very rarley. Look back at he Adrian Gonzales trade back in 2010. The redsox spent $154 million PLUS gave up Anthony Rizzo and another top prospect.
Trust me teams will be lined up if Atlanta was shopping Freeman becuase that kind of talent really doesn’t exist on the open market, now in days you have to home gown players of you want a young top slugger.
Someone of Cole Hamels caliber won’t net a ‘kings ransom’ due to the wide variety of top tier pitching on the Free agent market (Lester, Scherzer, Shields) but this isn’t the case with Freeman.
And the point being is Atlanta will free up a lot of $ in addition to what they already have to do whatever they want with it (extensions, signings, ect)
I still see the yankees and braves matching up pretty well here… The yankees could use a middle of the order bat in a corner outfield spot, and the Braves could use a leadoff hitting center fielder.
Yankees get Justin Upton and a young cost controlled arm
Braves get Gardner and maybe Refsnyder to play over La Stella? Or maybe someone like Austin who’s almost major league ready for a corner outfield spot?
The Braves don’t have any need for Refsnyder. La Stella is a temporary stop gap to top prospect Jose Peraza, who solves both the 2B and leadoff hitter issue they have.
Both uptons to nyy for Gardner, Gattis to Seattle for prospects, extend Heyward.
Sign me up.
Yankees would have to throw in a receiver too, maybe Shawn Kelley?
Evan Gattis in the OF……
I’ve seen Happ mentioned, but I’m sure Atlanta would prefer a guy with more than one year of team control.
Maybe as a bridge and depth for 2015.
Eat some of CJ’s contract and send him, La Stella and Gattis to the Rays for Hellickson and Zobrist.
Hellickson has two years of team control and Zobrist one, so not sure the Braves do this unless there’s a third team involved.
What about the Brewers as a potential trade target? One of Gallardo, Lohse or Garza could be packaged with Khris Davis for Heyward. Braves could move J Upton to RF and slot Davis in LF while adding another solid starter.
I know it’s not the popular thing to do anymore, but I wouldn’t complain if the Braves kept ’em all, did whatever they could for pitching help, and gave it their best shot in 2015 with the idea that they’d trade Justin and Jason both if they’re way out of it by July (unless they think a sandwich pick is better than the trade offers).
I’m just not convinced the team is going to be that good for 2016-2018 (or later) regardless of if they trade guys for prospects or not. If we’re gonna be bad for three or four years anyway, I’d rather not throw away the last semi-decent chance we’ll have for a while to get a headstart that may not even help if the Braves don’t get a good return.
Can’t say I’ll be broken up about it either way though.
I originally thought that the Braves would re-enter trade talks with the cubs centered around the two contracts terrible (B.J and Edwin). BJ, JUP and Minor for Edwin and a solid prospect or 2. (3-8 range maybe?) But I dont believe that will be the case.
I like the combo of Heyward and JUP, I wish that I could watch them two in Braves gear for the rest of their careers, but I know that wont happen. Best case scenario, We get to keep one of the two, most likely we trade them both. John Hart said something yesterday that struck me funny, that the Atlanta Braves are pitching poor, I didn’t agree at first, but the more I think about it the more I tend to agree. We have a good pitching staff, far from great. We lack a true power arm/ace. So I truly believe that we will trade both looming free agents. One for a power pitching prospect and the other for a near MLB ready OF prospect. We will shift Gattis to the OF, happy for the offense–cringe for the thought of the Defense, and Keep Brother BJ in Center eat one more year of the contract. I doubt a trade works with BJ involved that the braves would be willing to take. Not an off-season that sounds to appealing to me, but probably the most logical route.
I want to keep Heyward because I’m still hopeful they can work out an extension. I’m open to trading everyone else mentioned, but I wish there was a GM dumb enough out there to take Chris Johnson. Sadly, Atlanta is stuck with him and his awful dugout tirades. Trading Walden or Carpenter for a decent back-end starter would be great though. As long as they can be average to slightly above league average, you’re adding value. They have enough young arms in the minors to take their spots, but we have to hope Avilan will be kept in the minors until he can gain any of the form he showed a few years back. This team has a lot of holes, it’s hard to imagine a lineup without Hayward’s plate discipline, base running, and his OF defense. Watching Gattis play the OF is just cruel. He makes Eric Hinske look like Willie Mays.