The latest 10 Degrees column from Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports is rife with trade talks as the non-waiver deadline now sits just two weeks away. Passan begins by dedicating further ink to the oft-discussed Kyle Schwarber, writing that no player in baseball is more appealing to Yankees GM Brian Cashman, but the Cubs remain steadfast in their desire to hold onto him. Passan writes that perhaps if the Yankees were willing to part with both Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman, the Cubs could waver, but the commonly repeated refrain at this point seems to be that Chicago simply isn’t interested in moving Schwarber.
More highlights from Passan’s column, which is well worth a full look-through…
- The Yankees “are going to trade Chapman” within the next two weeks, Passan definitively notes on more than one occasion. While New York won’t fully tear down the roster, rental players like Chapman and Carlos Beltran figure to draw plenty of attention. Beltran’s poor defense makes him a tough sell to an NL club, but an AL club with a need at DH and some occasional outfield at-bats would significantly boost its lineup by adding Beltran to the mix.
- The Red Sox, Rangers, Orioles, Blue Jays and Dodgers are all expected to be in the bidding for Athletics ace Rich Hill, as are the Tigers, who have been calling around and asking about rotation upgrades, per Passan. The A’s, however, haven’t been willing to hold any meaningful talks about Sonny Gray, whose stock is at a low point right now in the wake of some highly uncharacteristic struggles. Passan also notes that Josh Reddick is “very unlikely” to reach an extension with Oakland at this juncture, though if the A’s were really only open to a three-year deal even as recently as July 9, I’d contend that it was never really a possibility in the first place.
- A match between the Rangers and Rays centering around controllable pitching is readily apparent, and some sources have expressed to Passan that they believe the Rangers are willing to part with prized slugger Joey Gallo in order to land a long-term rotation piece. Gallo, of course, is arguably the most powerful prospect in all of Minor League Baseball but doesn’t have a clear long-term fit on the Rangers’ roster now that Adrian Beltre has been extended. He could theoretically be shifted across the diamond to first base or transition to the outfield, though, if the Rangers do hold onto him, so it’s not as though he has nowhere to play on the club in the near future.
- Clubs that were pursuing Brad Ziegler were stunned by what the D-backs accepted in exchange for him, according to both Passan and Peter Gammons of the MLB Network (links to Twitter). Passan writes that the Indians, Blue Jays and Cubs all expressed interest in Ziegler and were all met with asking prices of Top 100-type or even Top 50-type prospects in return. Arizona, however, acquired a pair of prospects that weren’t nearly that well regarded in return. One NL GM who spoke to Gammons wondered if Dave Dombrowski’s close relationship with Tony La Russa impacted the negotiations.
- Scouts have raved about Matt Shoemaker since his return from the minors, with one telling Passan that his splitter is the best he’s seen this season. The Angels don’t want to go into a full rebuild and are loath to move controllable pitching, but Shoemaker would draw strong interest.
- The Reds don’t want to trade Anthony DeSclafani, but the dearth of quality arms on this summer’s trade market and on the upcoming free agent market gives Cincinnati a chance to cash in on what could potentially be a big chip. MLBTR’s Jeff Todd noted as much when examining the trade market for starting pitchers last week.
- The Indians, Rangers, Nationals, Orioles, Giants and Dodgers have all at least checked in on Reds outfielder Jay Bruce. Passan writes that Cleveland could be the favorite, which seems curious in light of Tyler Naquin’s recent breakout and reports that Michael Brantley is making better progress than expected. If such reports about Brantley are more of a smokescreen from the Cleveland front office than a genuine representation of the star outfielder’s progress, the interest in Bruce would make more sense. If not, it’s tough to see where Bruce would fit in with Naquin, Brantley, Rajai Davis and Jose Ramirez all representing outfield options (to say nothing of Lonnie Chisenhall, who is hitting well but not exactly replicating last season’s eye-popping defensive metrics). Cleveland has been more heavily tied to bullpen help of late, and, from my vantage point, had a greater need behind the plate than in the outfield even before the weekend injury to Yan Gomes.
The Ziegler trade seemed like highway robbery to me too. Good to see I’m not totally crazy. The Dbacks front office is just weird. I don’t know if they go by gut and emotional reactions, or they have a highly unorthodox evaluation system. But either way, it’s not going well.
Maybe they got their Basabe brothers confused 🙂
It’s hard not to honestly. Who names their kids Luis Alejandro and Luis Alexander? Through translation, that is literally the same name.
If the Yankees part with both Miller and Chapman* (not Cubs). Also, they would need Schwarber and a bit more for both Miller and Champan. Probably something like Schwarber, Eloy Jiminez and Baez for the two of them. It is a huge return to expect, but a deal like this would cement Cubs as WS favorites with a back-end featuring Strop, Rondon, Miller, Chapman. The craziest part is trading those three wouldn’t kill the Cubs long-term or short-term
hahahaha your insane….that type of package would be reserved for trout and nothing less
Keep dreaming
Well said
hahahaha you’re even more insane if you think that’ll get you Trout.
There were rumors earlier in the year regarding Trout to the Cubs… Not as far fetched as you think.
The Cubs’ mlb roster is loaded with regulars 26 and under. All controlled longterm. Plus they have the deepest pool of top minor league position players to send to match/beat any trade. There isn’t a player in the mlb that the Cubs don’t have the talent pool to acquire…
Lol those weren’t rumors… Those were bloggers and writers making up “potential” trade proposals, all of which weren’t even close to being in the ballpark…
The Cubs are not going to add anything if they give away Schwarber for 2 relievers, I know it would be a big help but you can get a cheaper bullpen help, no way they trade Schwarber Plus Baez for them. Why not only Chapman for Jimenez or Underwood.
Then you’re not getting Chapman or Miller. If the Cubs want to win a championship, it’s going to cost them. I was at the series at citi filed. Not sure what all the hype is about schwarber anyway. Guy is not a good defensive outfielder, will not catch for the Yankees as their farm system is stacked @ catcher, and just had knee surgery.
I wouldn’t really want to go all in like you, some help is good, Fernando Abad could be an ok guy to get, but its not worth to give away Baez and Schwarber for 2.5 years of Miller and 0.5 years of Chapman. They could sign a Melancon or Jansen in the offseason. For me its just to build a team that makes the Postseason every year and hope for luck there, don’t use 3 rebuilding years to try to build a super team for 1 year.
The royals did last year and they won the whole thing
Short right field porch and Dh ,
So did the Blue Jays, how’d that work out for them?
BronxBombers14 – You just summed up your ignorance right there. You seriously don’t get what the big deal is with Schwarber. How about the fact that between the regular season and postseason Schwarber, in his rookie year, in 78 games and only 259 ABs hit .255 BA, .362 OBP, 21HRs, 51 RBIs, and 58 Rs……. hitting mostly 2nd in their lineup. So a kid well on pace to hit 40+ HRs was hitting 2nd and still managed a 100+ RBI pace with only the leadoff hitter hitting in front of him. To put that in perspective for you, Kris Bryant last year in his rookie year as well played in 160 games between the reg. and post season. He had 593 ABs, 28 HRs, 89 R, 104 RBI, a .270 BA, and a .362 OBP.
So yeah, Schwarber is kind of a big deal. Get a clue. The Yankees demanding Schwarber for just ONE of their one inning specialists who pitch at most 12 innings per month, is the equivalent of demanding Kris Bryant. So again, lay off the weed. You fools in NY are way too high.
If they traded Schwarber, they’d be trading an excess piece for at least 1 very necessary piece (most likely Miller), and they’d have him for 2.5 years. Trading Schwarber and/or Baez doesn’t magically close their window on the postseason going forward. Realistically, they have potential replacements in house and would be perfectly fine without either of them going forward.
He’s not a bad defensive outfielder either. Not the best, but not bad. He actually played very well down the stretch and was a big reason why the Cubs won 97 games last year.
Yes, he is bad. He may have been a big reason why the Cubs won 97 games last year, but it was almost all from his bat, not his defense.
You do realize that unless they are getting a perfect game thrown against them, Schwarber is most likely batting 2nd only the first time through the order…
Lol. I’m smoking weed? The fact that you just compared Kyle schwarber to kris bryant tells me you know nothing about baseball. First of all, Schwarber hit .255? He is also a liability defensively and just had a major knee surgery. He’s be nothing but a DH for the Yankees. I’d rather use my assets to obtain a multi dimensional player.
Way to go KB. BronxBomber has no baseball acumen. Every proposal is “well then you are not getting him”. Who cares. Yankees are in deep trouble. Let them keep them. He demands Schwarber all the time in these posts but now he says he is not that good. Haha. Wow. Since he saw him play in a 4 game sweep. What a scout
What about my acumen? Pen cost you another one tonight.
I think you’ve got me confused with someone else. I don’t want schwarber at all.
Because if that’s the return they might as well tarde him to the Nationals for a better young pitcher
I agree. I’d much rather make a play for giolito than schwarber. The Yankees have the opportunity to drastically impact the NL pennant. Let’ s see who wants it more, the Cubs or Nats.
Hahaha, if you think the Yankees have anything at all that the Nats would give Giolito for, you’re insane.
Im sure you think they’ll hand over a future ace, under control for 6 years for 2+ years of Miller… Keep dreamin.
You’ll get Vogelbach, Torres, and McKinney for Miller and a mL SP and you’ll be happy.
@jasonpen
“The Yankees and Nationals are reportedly mulling a deal in which the Yanks would send Gardner and closer Andrew Miller to Washington for right-hander Stephen Strasburg and reliever Drew Storen, per CBS’ Jon Heyman.”
Yeah. I’m way off. The Nats considered strasburgh for gardner and Miller before this season, so I’m sure there’s no way they’d consider a deal for Miller and/or chapman seeing as giolito is better than strasburg.
There is no chance the Nationals ever considered such a deal.
I was so flabbergasted at reading this that I googled the phrase quoted. It is a bad case of the telephone game. As questionable as the underlying speculation was, it never suggested anything like that.
Heyman wrote at the time: “One player that could make sense for Miller is Nationals star Stephen Strasburg, who might be hard for Washington to extend. That is speculative; it isn’t known if Miller’s name has come up with Washington.”
I’ll add that there is also no chance whatsoever the Nats give Giolito up for a reliever.
Oh BronxBomber14. There you go again ….. Talking out of your behind! Ok big guy lets see “who wants it more” you think the Nats and Cubs are gonna “Want it” at the expense of Giolito or Schwarber? Hahaha thanks for the laugh. Keep Miller already! He is a relief pitcher. Remember Roberston? He was a stud a few years. How is he doing with the White Sox? He stinks.
Hahaha yes the Yankees can impact the race you say. Who wants it more? Haha sure let the bidding begin see who wants it. Maybe you think you get Giolito and …… Hahhaha
Oh Jeff Todd. You just reamed BronxBomber up the rear end. You nailed him!!
I’m obviously out of my league here in regard to intelligence, maturity, and class. I haven’t had to respond to a “taking it up the rear end” comeback since I was in middle school. Enjoy the rest of the season, fellas.
You gave up Vogelbach for a stiff and Torres for what looks like a two month rental.
Seems you boys all owe me an apology. Looks like the only one here that has any baseball acumen would be this guy. Let me break down how potentially bad this deal is for the Cubs IF they don’t win the series. Last year the Yankees got Castro for warren, the guy you just traded us back. We also got your top prospect, another of your top ten prospects, and a mid level prospects. If the Cubs don’t win and we resign Castro, we just raided your farm system and you’ll have absolutely nothing to show for it. As for being a moron for thinking the Yankees could get giolito for Miller, it doesn’t look like much of a stretch now does it?
And once again, seems like you guys have no clue what you’re talking about.
The only thing you guys have accomplished on this thread is proving you know nothing about baseball.
Latest On Andrew Miller mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/latest-on-andrew-miller…
That’s still too much for Chapman. Look what the Yankees gave up to land Chapman this last offseason. 4 bums is all it took to pry him away from the Reds, and that was in the offseason meaning they had him for the whole season before he hit free agency. The Cubs have 58 regular season games starting August 1st remaining. So if he was worth 4 bums in the winter he’s can’t be worth more than two bum minor leaguers for the last 1/3 of the season. Schwarber for Miller and Chapman still isn’t worth it. If the Cubs were to trade a guy like Schwarber the returning name would have to be someone like Giancarlo Stanton……. or Jose Fernandez. Not a couple 1 inning specialists who COMBINED only pitch 20 innings per month.
It is seriously amazing to me how clueless Yankee fans are in terms of how the league values relievers. If the Yankee front office is as delusional as their fans, I really hope the Cubs seek a trade elsewhere. Let the Yankees keep their precious bullpen and continue being a .500 team if they are so content with their “we don’t HAVE to trade them” stance. Sure. The Yankees don’t HAVE to trade them……. as long as they don’t mind being .500 or worse for the rest of the year…… and likely next year as well. But hey, they may be a team that hovers around .500 but at least they have a stellar bullpen. I guess that’s what they have to be telling themselves.
The reason the yanks got him for 4 bums is because of the possibility of an extended suspension. Worst case, he misses enough time to void his contract and the yanks would have controlled him next year. A GENIUS move by Cashman. Also, it is not ridiculous to think the yanks will get a big hall for either reliever. The Astros/Phillies deal for Giles and Sox/Braves deal for kimbrel set the market.
*haul
Lol wow. I really hope all Cubs fans aren’t as ridiculous as you. The only way Schwarber is getting you somebody like Stanton or Fernandez is if you plan on adding SIGNIFICANTLY more.
Yeah, that’s what he is saying. The Cubs arent going to part with Schwarber for anything that doesn’t blow them away. If he wasn’t injured, his name wouldn’teven be discussed. He is a 23-24 year old left handed power bat. Those 40-50 homerun guys don’t come around very often, and you’re not trading him straight up for a relief pitcher…
Watch the wild card game homerun off of Garrett Cole. Watch it and you’ll see what the fuss is about. And then watch the 450foot homer in the NLCS to RCF….
He’ll never be in Yankee pinstripes…
Hahaha, keep dreaming.
And then there’s this guy…
I wouldn’t trade Chapman and Miller for Schwarber plus addins if I was Yankees or Cubs. Yankees can still compete and unless Chapman wants out of NY they could offer him enough to stay. Schwarber has loads of talent but what if he doesn’t recover from his injury? It’s happened before. It would be a huge gamble. On the other side of that coin Schwarber could return and be the stud he was last season. So it would also be a huge gamble for the Cubs to move him.
Totally agree just think of Grady sizemore
Grady Sizemore was a five tool player
Was being the key word. After injury he wasn’t even close to that. Anyone paying a ton for Schwarber would be gambling a lot.
It’s truly amazing how many people think Schwarber was great last year. He really wasn’t… Right now, he’s one heck of a platoon DH. He’s a bad outfielder (and catcher), and he hit .143/.213/.268 against lefties for a whopping .481 OPS. That is absolutely awful. To be fair and present both sides, he definitely mashed righties though (.278/.396/.557).
He’s got a lot of talent with the bat, but he has a heck of a lot of work to do before he comes close to the legend that Cubs fans seem to have created.
You’re nuts
if bullpens were nearly as instrumental in winning as the Yankees wished they were at the beginning of this year…. they wouldn’t be scrapping their own bullpen for parts at the deadline
there is nothing in the Yankees organization they can move for Kyle Schwarber
I wouldn’t mind having Schwarber, but let’s not talk ridiculous. He batted .246 last year and K’d 33% of the time. Not to mention, he is on the chubby side and doesn’t really have a position. I wouldn’t give up Miller for Schwarber. Maybe Chapman. People in here talking Miller AND Chapman for Schwarber. Lololol. F Theo, anyway. Let him find some other sucker.
Schwarber’s a 23-year old left handed power bat who will be dirt cheap until 2022 (which is kinda’ why Yankees fans are so obsessed with getting him). Good luck talking that value down to the level of a reliever, who if you’re lucky will give you 60 innings a year and is only of any use to your ballclub when you already have a lead
if you don’t wish to get ridiculous, i’d suggest you not try and compare the value of the two, it seriously undermines one’s credibility.
Are we all talking about the Schwarber who batted .240 with atrocious defense in LF? The same guy who is nothing more than a DH on an NL club? Wait he’ll catch you say? Good luck squatting and trying to throw guys out pushing off your right knee, the same one that had major knee surgery on. Yeah, he’s worth way more than Miller and Chapman. SMFH
now you’re going to try to argue that left field defense matters so i’m still the one being ridiculous?
i never said he was a catcher, just that he’s a left handed power bat who, in spite of that rather low BA, managed to put up an .840 OPS and a 130 OPS+ last year. along with an OBP of ..355
but sure, let’s laser focus on one thing to try and talk his value down to the level of the guys the Yankees want to ditch. that’s totally a convincing argument.
What team do you root for?
Lets not forget he hasn’t proven he can hit lefties AT ALL. So you’re looking at a platoon DH right now (a very good one at that)… And since when does left field defense not matter? If he played right field, would that matter? Because Jason Heyward just got a boatload of money with his calling card as a great defensive right fielder.
Red Sox won 2 WS rings with Manny Ramirez in left field
no, Left Field defense does NOT matter
and for the record, in spite of the rather high profile mistakes he made in the playoffs, Schwarber’s fielding metrics suggest he’s not nearly the disaster everyone insists he in in the field
He’s not good, but there were worse starting LFers last year
He batted 246 because most rookies come up to the pros and bat 300 right?? What about his 355 obp?? He played in 69 games last year and hit 16 jacks. Stretch that out over a entire year and he was on pace for over 35 homeruns, as a 22 year old getting his 1st crack at the big leagues. Yeah he’s garbage
Lol. You can get away with poor defense in LF when you hit like Manny did.
Add in his postseason numbers and it just compounds your argument. You could legitimately argue schwarber was better than Bryant offensively last year. All of that doesn’t matter though, because the Cubs have been explicit in not trading him.
No. You couldn’t. Stop. You’re embarrassing yourself.
So southpaw, you are seriously saying schwarber for chapman? Hahahhaha
I’m not saying the Cubs should/shouldn’t trade Big Kyle for Miller, but bullpens are very important in the playoffs. The Yankees in the late 90s, early 00s and Royals recently have shown us how important it is if you can lock down late innings come playoff time. With off days, elite RP can throw just about every game and that is what Miller is. We all know that the Cubs are picking up players for the playoffs, not some random game in mid August here. Miller also has two more years of control after this season and fits very nicely into the Cubs best window to win. If the Cubs decide they would rather hang onto depth and add an average RP instead of adding an elite RP at this point would be a mistake.
the difference between elite closers and merely good ones is less than a win a year over a complete season. You need competent bullpens in the playoffs, that much is a given… but you don’t need ‘elite’ ones
There’s always competent relievers available in large quantities at the deadline, that’s just a universal truth of baseball. The cubs can get a lesser name who’d still be highly effective for much less… which is what makes these Schwarber rumors so ridiculous. The Yankees don’t have the bullpen market cornered, and the Yankees frankly need Schwarber more than the Cubs need miller…. so there’s just not enough leverage here to make that deal work
I also think they wont give up schwarber, but it could happen in my opinion. They’re so desperate to win one and miller is going to help their case
The problem is that WAR doesn’t mean diddly-squat in the playoffs. Lord knows if the Mets can another BP arm in the backend then maybe the WS would have ended differently last year. WAR for a relief pitcher is a tough way to gauge his value in a playoff run.
As for Schwarber & Yanks…just not a match. He’d be WAY too much to give up for 2 RPs, at least based on his projections. He may have limited value to the Cubbies (unless the DH is added in the NL), but he has a great deal of value to an AL club. The Cubbies have a deep farm system and can get it done another way….though I hope they don’t. I’d like my Mets to have another shot this year.
‘desperate’ does not mean ‘stupid’
Theo’s gotten the Cubs this far by not letting jinxes and curses over-ride his common sense.
you can’t trade away the last 108 years, so that’s a non-factor when it comes to trade evaluations
the cubs are not trading Schwarber, yankee fans can keep dreaming. But I still believe the cubs will make a package to land miller plus another player.
If the Cubs were to give up schwarber they had better get WAY more than 2 relief pitchers, one of which is a half season rental.
Well if Texas is willing to give Gallo, they can get a good starter from the Rays, a trade will be happening, Rays will be happy to give Odorizzi to Texas for Gallo and something extra, they will still have Archer, Ramirez, Smyly, Snell, Moore and Cobb might be back soon what’s the situation with him? TB maybe then will trade Longoria for some hitting prospects.
Joey Gallo has a .968 career OPS in the minors. Schwarber had a 1.042 OPS in the minors. Gallo has a .711 OPS in 125 major league plate appearances. Schwarber has an .831 OPS in 278 major league plate appearances.
No one seems to bat an eye when the Rangers refuse to deal Gallo for anything less than a long-term, cost-controlled starting pitcher. But Yankees fans seem to think the Cubs are CRAZY for not caving into trading Scwharber for a set-up man.
Trade deadline season has warped people’s brains, in my opinion.
Miller is good. No one doubts that. But the Yankees are asking for a bigger return on Miller than the Padres received for Craig Kimbrel.. As good as Miller is, he’s not Kimbrel. And if the Yankees don’t want to be reasonable, then forget about them. They can keep him.
Even if the Yankees wanted a comparable package to what the Padres received, it would be Jimenez, Vogelbach, McKinney and Gleybar Torres. It would NEVER include Kyle Schwarber..
Jimenez comps nicely to Allen in that they’re both young enough with enough potential and projection to dream on. Vogelbach has come into his own the past two seasons, owning a .900 OPS in the high minors (Double A; Triple A). McKinney is a good-but-not-great prospect just like Guerra; and Torres is a top-2o prospect just as Margot was (though most publications had in the mid 50s..)
Now that deal would still favor the Yankees since – again – it’s as much or more than the Padres received for Kimbrel. But I assume the Cubs would do it just to get their guy and inch themselves closer to a potential championship. But under no circumstances are they dealing Kyle Schwarber for a single relief pitcher.
Miller is having a better season this year than kimbrel in his last season with the padres (before he got traded) miller is also a few millions cheaper, and his “team first” mentality definitely worth noting to them and makes him versatile (unlike “closers” who can “only work the 9th”)
Now, should i need to mention who’s having a better year this year?
You’re right Kimbrel is not Miller , Kimbrel is on the dl and hasn’t been as good as before since traded twice , Miller tops Kimbrel as of today and since the last 2 years
That’s one of the dumbest proposals I’ve seen, btw how many career saves does Miller have? Elite reliever yes elite closer who knows, those cubs prospects you mentioned are all better than the Yankees prospects minus McKinney . There are others proven relievers out there and Rondon is no chump
He was pretty elite last year as a closer. And every other save opportunities he’s gotten this year and before he came to NY. K
If that’s your logic , they can get Jim Johnson he has a high amount of carreer saves :’) , Like it or not any of the 3 top Yankee relievers are better than rondon
You’re smoking the good stuff if you think the Rangers are trading Gallo for Odorizzi or Moore. Think larger, much larger.
No, that’s a reasonable trade. Odorizzi in particular is a young, healthy, controllable starting pitcher and he’s worth a prospect of the Gallo type, more or less. Gallo is pretty flawed, after all, with one huge skill. Maybe the Rays would have to add a B prospect or something, but as a basic structure it works. Especially as scarcity is making controllable SP’s extremely valuable. Rangers would be bidding against a LOT of teams.
Hey look Gallo just struck out crossing the street
The report in the text said that Texas might consider trading him and if that is happening then basically a trade will happen in no time. But Gallo is not a sure thing like Odorizzi to look at it one way. But if they are considering trading Gallo, they should try to get something more than Odorizzi, a better pitcher.
The Reds should be looking at some sort of trade involving DeSclafani for Gallo. There might be more moving parts, but it would be fill huge needs for both sides.
Gallo playing everyday in the very hitter friendly park in Cincinnati would be interesting.
Gallo for any pitcher on the Rays not named Snell or Archer is absolute robbery, If Gallo goes for someone like Odorizzi that is a worse trade than Swanson + for Miller
I don’t think it would be worse, although Inciarte isn’t doing good at all, Blair still isn’t an ace and Swanson is not a sure thing. Besides now Odorizzi would be a bigger help now when they are competing
Odorizzi is currently worse than AJ Griffin though
I wouldn’t be surprised if the trade was for Moore. Archer would take a big package and Moore could easily slot in behind Darvish.
I don’t think Smyly, Moore, Odorizzi makes the Rangers much better, If they are looking for a move like that they would be much better off gambling on Cashner, and not giving up a potential future star in the league for a mediocre pitcher from Tampa. Cashner has higher upside and would cost much less as a rental,
I feel differently about Moore. I think he is better than the other two. Cashner is a decent option too and could be had for cheap because he’s a rental.
I’m mad that my A’s basically got rid of A.J Griffin, he’s a good pitcher. But Texas could use anothet starter, Odorizzi would be helpful, injuries happen a lot as a A’s fan I know that too well, A.J and Yu might still be hitting DL’s, but hopefully not. They are actually the 2 guys from Texas that I like.
I don’t agree with that at all. Odorizzi is equal to Miller and has more control remaining than Miller. As to the return, Gallo and Swanson are similarly ranked prospects, but the D-Backs then added another top 60 prospect and 5 years of a 3 WAR MLB player. A similar package from the Rangers would be Gallo, Luis Ortiz and 3.5 years of Profar for Odorizzi. If the Rays could somehow convince Texas to make that trade, then I’ll agree they got a better haul than Atlanta.
In what ratings system is Profar a 3 WAR MLB player?
He’s not, I just couldn’t find a good comparison on the Ranger’s current roster and Profar has name recognition to go along pretty good production in his limited time this year. The problem is there are not a lot of players with 5 years of team control and 2 seasons of 3 WAR production under their belts. I would imagine though Profar’s value would be seen as somewhere along those lines.
Fair enough. Although, despite his 2016 struggles, I could see Delino Deshields as being a better comp to Inciarte.
Inciarte is on pace for 3 WAR again with a slash line of .238/.304./.322 he can take his 3 WAR and shove it and people need to realize primarily defensive players are over valued by WAR. Swanson and Gallo are not similar prospects at all either one has proven power the other does not, Gallo ceiling is immensely higher than Swanson.
Even if you don’t think defense is properly valued by WAR, it still has value and 5 years of Inciarte is a player every team could use. As to Gallo and Swanson, they are similarly ranked prospects. I’ll agree Gallo has more power. He also struggles defensively and strikes out in over 30% of his minor league PA. Power is great, but only if you can get to it. I’ve struggled to find anybody ever who had Gallo’s contact issues in the minors get to the majors and be a star. Mark Reynolds averaged 38 HRs over a 3 year span and I wouldn’t trade his cost controlled years for the next 3.5 of Odorizzi and his MiLB strike out rates weren’t nearly as bad as Gallo’s are.
Who cares? There is zero chance that the Rays get Profar, Gallo and Ortiz for Odorizzi. I realize that is what Atlanta got for the similar Miller but our GM isn’t a flipping goofball. Also if Profar was in the disscusion it would be his name that led the rumor in MLBTR because he is honestly a better prospect than Gallo.
Personally even though I know I’m on the minority, I’m not overly high on Gallo. I think he has a lot of risk on whether he is a successful big league player. His low average and high strikeout total (though he has reduced his rate this season) do not bode well for him despite spending time in some of the historically hitter friendly leagues of the PCL and Texas leagues. His lack of defensive ability to makes him some one that I’d look to deal IF I can find a team that I thought over valued his bat.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he will be a relative good player. But I’d rather deal that risk to someone else if I can get players who have a better chance of success and can help the Rangers this season.
I understand his high ceiling for sure, but what is the chance he gets there?
What lack of defensive ability? he has a massive arm and while he may not stick at third his glove will be average in the outfield.
I think Gallo is an amazing trade chip and hope you guys get something profound for your franchise. I hope its not with my team but all the same, I do hope its championship caliber.
Outfield arm is like 20% at most of outfield defensive value. Gallo is universally regarded as a defensive liability.
A poor defensive team in any major league sport has never won anything.
I’ve never seen a scouting report that says Gallo is average defensively at any position. He does have a great arm, but I’ve seen his 3B defense grade out at 40. He also is a 40 runner, so that means limited range in the OF. He isn’t a DH only, but I’ve never seen anything but below average defensive grades on him. His power and arm are off the charts, but he grades out below average in everything else. There is a lot more risk with him than what you would normally expect from a top 15 prospect in AAA.
You’re vastly overrating Gallo. We’re talking about a one tool player here, albeit a really cool tool. He’s a career 257 minor league hitter with poor defense. Yes guys with his power don’t come around too often, but to say he’s too much for an established, young, controllable, good starter like Odorizzi is just homerism.
What report has ever stated that he is a one tool player? Every report I have ever seen has him as two with a third developing if he moves off of thirdbase. He’s a good frontline prospect for a controllable #3 starter like Odorizzi or Moore. Probably will have to add a lower minors player or two to get it done but Gallo is a good haul as the centerpiece. There is a reason hes the #7 prospect in baseball.
P.S. homerism would be expecting Archer for Gallo.
I’m a Rays fan and I agree with what you’re saying. My biggest issue with Gallo is the unknown and I think it makes him a very intriguing prospect, but also a tough one to trade. If he’s on your team, you see his ceiling and don’t want to risk losing a .900 OPS, 40 HR bat at an under market price. If your team is acquiring him, you don’t want to pay the market price of a top 15 prospect when you see the floor of a .200 Avg, 200+ strike out defensive liability.
As a Rays fan, we are still deep at SP so if Gallo is the best we can get, I’ll be on board and hope he hits his ceiling, while trying to overlook the warts.
This is probably the most fair post in the thread. Solid #3 for a high-upside but risky bat first prospect. I think it could work for both teams because TB has the SP depth, but would LOVE to add a bat.
Rays already have a Gallo, to be honest they have a few , Souza Dickerson Morrison Miller etc , they don’t need more guys with swing and miss ( it’s not how far you hit them but how often) they need more of a for sure type hitter
Really has Gallo learned to hit yet? Looks like a poor mans rob deer at this point and he’s not lighting the world on fire at aaa
The Cubs should trade Schwarber in my opinion. Maybe for 2 of the Yanks 3 relievers is enough, def not only 1 of them but Schwarber is a 1B/DH. With Rizzo entrenched at 1st i just don’t think he fits their roster. I think they should go after the best starter they can find for him. Maybe try to go after Sale, Gray, etc. Maybe talk to the Rays about Archer, Colome combo. If they offer up Schwarber, every team would listen
I wouldn’t mind an Archer Colome for Schwarber deal, but I’m not entirely sure that would work. Schwarber is good, one of my favorite players, and the rays loved him coming out of the draft. But Archer and Colome have more value in my mind than just Schwarber, I’d reckon it’d take Schwarber, Torres and Stinnett to land Archer/Colome and I’m not sure I want the cubs to make that move, and I’m not sure the Rays would be too interested either, as both those guys individually might have more value than packaged together.
I agree that IF they’re going to trade schwarber lets get as much as they can out of him, no reason to let him go for relievers no matter how great they are. A package centered around schwarber should definitely get gray or archer especially with both of them struggling. Sale would be incredibly tough to get for anyone much less a cross town rival. The sox would be stupid to sell sale or Quintana at this point. If the Cubs are absolutely sold on Happ being an everyday outfielder then go for it, trade hammel for the best prospect you can get and swing schwarber and a low level guy for gray/archer. (This would all be happening after this season, mind you. No chance they do any of this before the deadline). Having said all that, I like schwarber too much so I probably wouldn’t sell him unless a ridiculous deal comes along
The problem with both Gray and Archer is neither teams’ GM will trade low. They will sit on their guy and hope they bounce back next year because they still have control. Trying to get one past Beane is a tall order, so it’d definitely cost dollar for dollar to get Gray…even though he has struggled. It’s worth a call, but it’d take more than Schwarber; if a year from now Schwarber bounces back…different story.
I disagree, Billy Beane has been one of the worst GMs in baseball the past few years, making some horrible trades. Dealing Addy Russell for Shark and Hammel, Yo for Lester, Pomeranz for Alphabet and Alonso, and other similar deals.
Not sure he fits the Yankees’ roster either. Bird is the heir apparent at 1B and even if they did lose one of Garnder and Ellsbury Judge is going to be in RF and Schwarber isn’t much of a LF. They need to play aging players at DH until they get rid of them.
I agree. You don’t rebuild with young dh’s. Schwarber is not a fit.
Me too. IMO Schwarber is pretty seriously overblown, partially because he’s such an unusual prospect. Such a fantastic hitter against right-handers, but poor against lefties and no position to play. It’s possible if you’re an AL team you’re acquiring a platoon DH. And platoon DH’s aren’t worth Chris Archer (not even close!).
Because 22-23 year old ball players that have played a whopping 69 games against big league pitching are peaked out and have already made all the adjustments they need against the best pitchers in the world. Platoon DH pffffffffft
Schwarber for Sale? You’re kidding right?
Cubs fans have been reading too much of the propaganda on Boston prospects during their down years. Every Cub prospect is valued as a HOF, too. Yes, in a fair trade, an unproven player with six/five years of control is moved for a player with much less control but a proven track record. The Pomeranz trade was a good example. I have read both positive and negative opinions on that trade from both sides. What I never read was a proposal from a fan that was even close to what actually went down.
I’m not sure I agree. A lot of the prospects in the cub’s system are pretty underrated. Vogelbach for example, would have a chance to legitimately start for 20/30 teams in bigs. In terms of overrating your own prospects, I think you have to not just look at the rankings, but the numbers. When you see prospects struggle for an extended streak, you should be worried regardless where they are in the rankings. As for Schwarber, you can’t even call him a prospect. He absolutely raked last year despite a back injury. Epstein has been clear about how he values schwarber, and all of us as baseball fans should trust him based on his record of past transparency
Not straight up…a package centered around Schwarber. Schwarber is a great fit in the AL, much better fit then with the Cubs. Any team in the AL would be thrilled to have him. I’m not saying the guy is a perfect prospect by any means. But he’s already crushes righties and he’ll continue to develop and improve against lefties too.
In a world where Sox fans are clamoring for a top to bottom rebuild, trading Sale makes a ton of sense. A package headlined by Schwarber is close to the top of any offer the Sox could get for him.
Indians should get Lucroy
I would love to get Lucroy
This tribefan disagrees with that tribe fan. It’s not that the bat of Lucroy wouldn’t be great. The haul of prospects PLUS him moving to a different league where Lucroy wouldn’t be familiar with the AL hitters or Cleveland pitchers is why I don’t think the Indians should be in on him. Roberto Perez has experience with the Indians pitchers and will already be an upgrade over Yan Gomes with the bat.
Cleveland should save their prospects for bullpen help and possibly a RF or 3B that hits right handed. Boone Logan, Will Smith, Aroldis, and on the low end maybe Abad from the Twins would be LH reliever targets. I think Joe Smith or possibly Melancon, if the Pirates sell, would be a nice RH upgrades. On the more expensive end Alex Colome would be interesting as well.
The Tribe and Rays could match up pretty well for a trade. The Rays have Steve Pearce and Xavier Cedeno who would fit two needs for the Indians as a power hitting righty who can play COF or 3B and a LH set up man with 3.5 years of control remaining. I could see something like McKenzie, Hillman, Gonzalez and Allen as a package of players that fit what the Rays look for. If I was the Rays, I would try for Mejia and McKenzie as the center pieces first though.
Chicago can’t part with Miller or chapman they play for New York. There is a misprint in the first paragraph
Dearth of free agent pitching & even average starters getting mid teen millions this last off season. Any pitcher the rays have is a better value than overpaying for a average free agent starter. Overpay for a free agent Price or give up some prospects for a starter like Hamels that is over half the cost of Price?
Need to hold onto Chapman and try and acquire a bat for the playoff push. Just took 4 of 7 from the Red Sox and Indians, 2 of the top teams in the AL. If that were the ALCS, Tanaka would have clinched game 7 last night. Only 4 games back from Toronto in the loss column.
I love the Yankees but they are going nowhere. They should have been this bad for the past two years but they’ve somehow found a way to play above their heads.
They can get a package for him now and make a play for him in the winter if they want him back, I’d sell sell sell
The reason Yankees won is because they did not get to face ace pitcher Drew Pomeranz. His stats will only get better in Boston. That team is so complete. We all know they can hit. But their relief corps and starting pitching is looking downright scary!
(am I doing it right?)
Lol I need a laugh judge Judy
The Yankees have ZERO depth at SP and they are old. They have a stellar BP, but down the stretch I can’t see them out-pacing Boston and I doubt either wildcard comes from the AL East. MAYBE the second wildcard, but that is a stretch.
The 2 current WC leaders are Boston and Toronto and it has been that way for quite a while , and you doubt that the ALE won’t grab a WC spot ?
*and you doubt the ALE will grab a WC spot ?
Boston is 6-3 versus Yankees this year I think you’re mistaken
1-2 vs Boston
Judge Judy, formerly known as RAB Commentor, is a troll. I’m surprised most people don’t know this by now.
Ever since his return from the minors, Shoemaker is probably the best pitcher the Angels have… It it wasn’t for the bullpen blowing the saves for his games in which he left with leads, he would have a winning record … It will be a big mistake of the Angels trade him…
Unless they get someone on a fairly significant overpay I’d agree that we should keep Shoe.
So keep him, stay at the bottom of the league, and hope that some of our highly regarded prospects pan out and we’ll be a playoff team soon!!! Wait…..
DeSclafani has looked like the only definitive amongst the Reds many question marks of young arms. If they do trade him, it better be for a king’s ransom
If they could get a top ~50 prospect I think they would give it serious though. Cozart and Bruce should be gone at the deadline though. Maybe Straily if someone wants to give a decent prospect up for him.
Trading DeSclafani is the antithesis of a rebuild. If you trade him with 4 years of service time remaining, then you might as well try and join the Midwest League. He is exactly the result you are hoping for when trading for prospects. Why trade the best case scenario in a prospect for another gamble? He is a guy that you need to build around. Otherwise, what is the point?
They should at least float the idea to test the market. They’d be smart to hold onto him, but if a team gets desperate….2-4 prospects back can really help a rebuilding team get better, quicker. Just look at the Phillies. I loathe them as a franchise, but they are at least a year or two ahead on their rebuild because of smart trades for prospects.
The Phillies traded an overhyped reliever for 5 prospects. Yeah if the Reds can get a Ken Giles or Shelby Miller type offer for him, then perhaps they should trade him. But a potential ace quality starter is always more valuable and harder to find than a top reliever.
we’re calling rich hill an ace now? a guy with 18 starts under his belt since ’09 (granted very good starts). Seems like the same old story with him, solid stuff but cannot stay healthy. Call me old fashioned but you should probably show up on a few cy young ballots and not signing one year deals for minimal money before the A word gets thrown around
Eh why not? People are acting like Kyle Schwarber is the next Babe Ruth even though he has played a grand total of 71 MLB games worth a little over 1 WAR. He has a much better chance of being the next Kevin Maas.
No one is saying Kyle Schwarber is the next Babe Ruth. Fans are merely reacting to the idea that he could be traded for a relief pitcher…
But it’s interesting you bring up WAR. I prescribe to the FWar over BWar, mainly because I think it’s usage of more advances metrics makes it a better indicator of individual performance and future predictions…
In 2015, Kyle Schwarber had a 1.9 FWar. Andrew Miller had a 2.0 FWar. Schwarber achieved his in 273 plate appearances. Miller’s represented the second-highest total of his entire career, trailing only his 2014 FWar of 2.2 …
Essentially, Schwarber’s first 273 big-league plate appearances had as much value as a full season of Andrew Miller at his absolute best.. How in the world do people think this trade has any shot of happening?
Yeah it won’t happen , Cubs won’t budge and Yankees won’t deal , Cubs better hurry and get any reliever they can
Because WAR is not useful for relief pitchers at all, especially late inning ones. WAR does not distinguish a 1st inning K (or in Schwarber’s case, a 1st inning single) from a 2 out, bases loaded, bottom of 8th, tie game, pop out induced by a Chapman or Miller. Late inning relievers have the game on their shoulders literally every pitch, but WAR only measures K’s, BB’s, HR’s and the like.
I didn’t say anyone said it. I said people are acting like it. Schwarber is a power hitter that loses a lot of his appeal when he isn’t behind the plate. As a catcher he could be a force, put him in the outfield and you basically have a Josh Willingham type player Willingham was a very nice player for a good decade, but not exactly an untradable superstar either. The Cubs are in the midst of a 108 year drought and no one has as desperate a need to win as them. Schwarber isn’t going to help them win this year. Miller or Chapman might.
It could happen, because Schwarber is injured and not playing, so he is not helping. It could happen because the Cubs need pitching NOW. It could happen because the Cubs have numerous options for LF, most, if not all, are better defensively than Schwarber. It could happen because the Cubs find themselves in a position to win a WS, and if the Cubs don’t realize how rarely that happens, no one does. It could happen, because Schwarber will never have a higher value. The expectations are so high, he can only disappoint, not exceed.
Nor should it distinguish between different situations. Situations are coincidental stats that don’t measure anything tangible. All coincidental stats do is add to the poetics of baseball. They allow for the cliches – the idea that this guy is clutch … that guy is unflappable. .. so and so has ice water running through his veins. It’s all BS.
It allows you to say things like “the game is literally on his shoulders every pitch.’ The reality is that it’s not. In fact, 60% of Miller’s saves in 2015 occurred in games he entered with the Yankees leading by multiple runs. That’s happened 43% of the games he’s saved this year, and in 60% of the games he’s earned a hold. Given that he’s only inherited THREE base runners all year – one of which scored – and pitches more often than not at the start of an inning in a multi-run game, it’s ridiculous to argue that the game is on the line with every one of his pitches.
I’ve heard the Kyle Schwarber to Babe Ruth comparisons many times…
Situations don’t measure anything tangible? Tell that to Matt Thornton (and countless other players). He was an excellent bullpen arm for the White Sox until they tried to make him a closer. For some reason he could never seem to get it done, going a whopping 23 of 52 in save situations…
I’ve never seen 1 Cubs fan compare Schwarber to Ruth. They only fans I’ve seen say that are Yankee fans. It seems funny to me how all’s I’ve seen is people down talk him, he doesn’t have a position, his knee is blown, hes overhyped. Yet these are the same people clamoring for him to be traded to their team. Maybe he does become a bust and can’t find a position and pitchers figure him out and he can’t hit, but maybe he turns into a great hitter with 50 hr potential. Fact is no one really knows but I trust Theo’s eye for talent and if Theo says he believes in Schwarbs then I do to, the track record can not be denied
Google “Kyle Schwarber Babe Ruth,” and you’ll see a bunch of articles comparing him to Babe Ruth. You can even find a Kyle Schwarber t-shirt that says “Babe Effin’ Ruth” on it. The comparisons are definitely out there…
They also call him baby hulk. Does that mean he is going to turn green and start Schwarber smashing things??
Yes.
Hahahaha that would be pretty awesome lol
Ace seems to be used in two different ways. If you are talking about a player alone as an “Ace” that means he could be a #1 for any team. If it is written as say “Braves ace Teheran”, they are talking about the best starter on the team. It is just how it is written.
An ace is one of the best pitchers in all of base ball. It is a term widely misused. There are only a hand full of true aces in baseball. A staff ace is the best pitcher on a team. Every team has a staff ace.
So basically you are rewording exactly what I just said
Precisely
Well even if we are giving every team an ace (which I am sure jimmy nelson, ervin santana and edison volquez love that idea), then I still say Gray is the prize of that team, despite his struggles this year. Cant wait for Berrios to manage a half dozen starts, if he is anywhere under 4.00 ERA he will automatically be the staff ace.
Schwarber is goin no where..the Cubs threw pitchers in left field so I don’t think defense is a concern, that boy can rake.
The front office built a championship team in Boston, winning two World Series with Manny Ramirez playing left field. Yea – they don’t really place any kind of premium on LF defense.
… against right-handers. One of the worst platoon splits in baseball last year.
so you’re just going to ignore that he’s put up a career ops higher than .800 in the minors vs lefties, because of what, 50 ABs against lefties in the majors? Seems just slightly bias.
You do realize that he only had 72 ABs against lefties in AA and AAA, right? That’s opposed to 61 in the majors. Yes, I think I will weigh the major league ABs significantly more. Seems a lot more biased to use his minor league stats…
He’ll ignore whatever he has to ignore to make his point… The fact is that Rizzo hit .189 against lefties in 2013… Then he hit .300 against lefties in 2014… .and 294 against lefties in 2015. It’s amazing how talented young hitters tend to figure out things as their careers progress.
Anthony Rizzo is a great hitter that made some great improvements (to say the least) against left handed pitchers. Could Schwarber do that? Absolutely. Has he yet? Nope. He very well could make adjustments like Rizzo and become an excellent hitter against lefties, or he could continue to be miserable against them. Or, the more likely option, is that he’ll fall somewhere in between. But as of right now, he’s a great platoon DH.
Platoon DH…… Dumb. Ask the Pittsburgh Pirates how bad this guy must be. He was a top prospect only a little over a year ago and proved he could hit and had great plate discipline. Yankee fans are the only ones talking down schwarbers talent level and yet they still want him. What kind of rankings were the prospects given up for chapman for a full season? Now reduce that to a half season and then the Cubs and nationals and Giants will talk to you.
I’m not opposed to trading Gallo but it wouldn’t be for one of the Rays average starters. Texas would be better off packaging him to New York for a Miller/Chapman deal to fortify the back of the bullpen.
My guess is if they are willing to include him in a trade to Tampa then they’re looking at a bigger deal than just a starting pitcher. Then again I’m just a part time internet GM.
Gross I don’t want to spend our best trade chip on relievers. Gallo has too much control and upside. We can fix the bullpen without an overpay. Daniels has done it before.
You’re not getting Miller and chapman or either one for Gallo who has a giant hole in his swing
Thats fine, I don’t want to trade one of the best power hitters in the minor leagues for a reliever. Especially a rental in Chapman. That is how GMs get fired haha.
Cubs gotta save Schwarber for a trade for a starter. I the idea of Archer and Colome or maybe Snell and Colome combo. There would probably be other pieces moving. But it’s a win win for both the Cubs and Rays. Cubs get their young starter and bullpen help and the rays get a slugger who can play 1st/of/dh for them for cheap for the next 5-6 years
Hey Cubs fans,
Tampa is rebuilding. Snell is going nowhere. Get real.
Now you get what cub fans are thinking when someone says trade Schwarber for a relief pitcher. My point is made. Mic drop
This guy name-dropping Snell definitely does not stand for all Cubs fans.
Really?? So you would part with Schwarber for less then a top half of the rotation young controllable pitcher?? Foolish
You have incredible extrapolation abilities.
Then by all means please clue me in to what is Schwarbers worth really is because that is the million dollar question. Are you trading him plus other parts for a reliever?? Is he worth holding on to and being the Cubs everyday LF?? Does he get traded for a Matt Moore or Rich Hill?? Is he worth packaging for a TOR starter?? Please enlighten me on what you believe he’s worth. I am genuinely curious to see what others think about this
Not too sure why the O’s would be interested in Jay Bruce. They have plenty of OFers and Alvarez DHing. Unless they look to get rid of Alvarez and move Trumbo to DH.
Agreed. It’s like Duquette is trying to stack the line-up with guys that strike out at least 120 times. It’d make more sense if they’d diversify the line-up with some speed and/or OBP guys than more of the same.
Yeah…following the Mets model will get them killed. All or Nothing type bats that can win with HR but SUCK manufacturing runs and have zero team speed.*
*Reyes has been with the club for 2 weeks and is 1 SB away from the Met’s team lead (of 3) held by David Wright (in 38 games played).
there’s some good stuff in here. And by good stuff I mean comments that make me laugh out loud. Especially the Yankees fan that thinks they can get Trout for Miller and Chapman.
So dumb. As other fan bases say, please know that 1 fan doesn’t represent a whole fan base to make all of us look foolish.
I hope my Orioles get Jay Bruce….he would light up that short left field porch at Camden yards. And talk about a modern day murderers row with our lineup looooooook out
I think the Yankees should really go into a full on rebuild for the next year and a half, let some of the big albatross can’t be traded contracts expire, rebuild farm, and prospects as best as you possibly can, then hopefully you have a fairly clean slate for 2018. And I’m not a ya less fan, I can’t stand them actually but I think that would be the best way. I know they’re going to outspend my blue Jays but right now isn’t the time.
The Yankees are in a tough spot. They are going to need to draft and develop players. Many teams are locking up their young stars. It’s not like it was 10 years ago where they could just sign all the big name FA’s.
I agree, the game has changed a bit, I guess I mentioned 2018 because it’s suppose to be a very deep, talented, and fairly young free agent class, but like you said, most of them may likely be locked up by then. There isn’t anything to buy on the free agent market this year whatsoever, not much young and athletic.
The Astros could use a relief pitcher. How about the Yankees go get Carlos Correa for Andrew Miller…
No way would any relief pitcher ever net Correa. At least not at this point in his career.
That’s the joke.
Puig, Wood, Cody Bellinger for McCann and Miller
Beltran to the Indians for Kaminsky
Miller to Rangers for Brinson
Chapman to Cubs for Candelario & Almora
Gardner to the Giants for Beede
Evoldi to the Pirates for Niese
Stop drinking plz , you’re in dreamland
I think you think the “&” symbol means “or.” FYI, it means “and.” Chapman for Candelario OR Almora……… at least you’re getting more reasonable. I’d entertain Candelario for Chapman, still would be getting the short end of the stick since the Yankees are going to give Chapman some ludicrous contract this winter so the Cubs would be coughing up a decent prospect for only 2+ months of Chapman. This is why teams rarely trade top talent for relievers. 1) they just aren’t worth it. and 2) you can build a solid bullpen through free agency.
the cubs can land miller without giving up schwarber. their farm system is that good. As for the angels, shoemaker would bring back a nice package only if it was worth it. same with escobar
I hate to break it to you, but they only have 3 players in Baseball America’s mid-season top 100…
Not to bad considering 5 or 6 top 100 graduated to the big leagues over the last year and a half
Not bad at all, but graduating all those top prospects will weaken your farm system, obviously.
Not saying that it isn’t weakened from graduating all those guys but even after that it ranks amongst the top half in all of baseball. Kimbrels haul brought in 2 top 100 prospects, Cubs have 3 now so there’s no reason to think they can’t get it worked out.
I don’t disagree with the fact that they could get it worked out without Schwarber, depending on what the Yanks are interested in. The only big difference I see is that Kimbrel was traded in the offseason, and one (or multiple) of the Yanks relievers will be mid-season acquisitions. Despite not having as much team control, this is when a lot of teams start to get desperate and get into bidding wars. If the Cubs want one of the Yanks relievers, they’ll be going up against other teams that think they are 1 elite bullpen piece away from a World Series (including the Nats). Sombody will end up giving more than they “want to.”
Don’t get me wrong Miller and Chapman are very much amongst the elite bullpen arms in the game. But there is a thin line between elite and very good bullpen pitching. Yes it would be nice to have either one of them but not for the price they want. Ive been saying all along I’d rather make a move for Boone Logan or Francisco Abad. Far less cost and both are very good bullpen options
You’re a loser if you go solely by all these top 100 prospect rankings. Do you even look at these minor leaguers’ stats. If you did you’d know that Joey Gallo being a top 10 prospect in the league is a JOKE. How can a guy who can only hit .257 in his minor league career, and only like .224 at the triple A level be a top 10 prospect. Last I checked you have to actually be able to hit in order to be considered good. Joey Gallo is the only prospect I can recall who gets progressively worse as he gets promoted in the minors while his prospect ranking gets closer and closer to #1 overall. So the worse he does the higher his ranking goes. Idiotic. Another example is Aaron Judge. Pretty sure his is a top 50 prospect according to most of these arbitrary, highly subjective lists. While at the same time Dan Vogelbach isn’t even ranked…… despite having better career minor league numbers than Judge and WAAAAAAAAAY better triple A numbers than Judge. So I hate to break it to you, “top 100 prospect” lists are about as reliable as fan hype. In fact, I look at “top 100” lists as more of a marketing ploy by the 30 MLB teams than anything, pitching their prospects to make them seem more valuable. I mean here is a career minor league stat line from a Cubs minor leaguer who isn’t even on the Cubs “top 30 prospects” list.
Highest level achieved, triple A. Age, just turned 26 last month. In his 5th full season, outfielder
518 games, 2,165 PA, 1833 AB, .270 BA, .371 OBP, .746 OPS, 19 HRs, 76 2B, 30 3B, 181 SB. Plays solid defense in all 3 OF spots.
Now let’s compare that to #30 overall prospect according to Baseball America, Lewis Brinson in the Rangers’ system. Brinson’s highest level was triple A in which he played 8 games. I say “was” because he is in double A right now.
432 games, 1,887 PA, 1,684 AB, .276 BA, .347 OBP, .838 OPS, 71 HRs, 99 2B, 25 3B, 80 SB, Plays as good defense if not slightly worse than unnamed player above.
SURE, Brinson has more power than my unknown guy. But I think he more than makes up for it in plate discipline with his roughly 25 point higher OBP, and with his speed on the base paths with 181 SBs in 518 games…… or a 56.6 SB pace over a 162 game season. Both play good defense in the OF. Yet 1 is ranked as the 30th best prospect in the game while the other isn’t even cracking the top 30 in his own organization’s top 30 list. So, who is this mystery player who is putting up solid numbers similar to that of Lewis Brinson? None other than Cubs minor leaguer John Andreoli. Who? Exactly. It all depends on marketing and the hype the team builds around said player. Most of these rankings are probably conceived of by going around the league asking execs who really excites them in their system. Which is why the likes of Dan Vogelbach get no love. Cubs have Rizzo, why would Vogelbach be on the minds of any of their execs? Also, if you notice, these “top 100” lists generally consist of a TON of pitchers and middle infielders. Why do you think that is? Because teams are always scouring for SS, 2Bmen, and quality pitching, so of course a team is going to hype up players in these positions more than any other position. Catcher is often viewed as a position that doesn’t need to hit well. It’s why a grand total of 5 catchers made it in the top 100.
Andrew Knapp is the 80th ranked prospect and plays catcher in the Phillies system.
350 games, 1,314 AB, .277 BA, .351 OBP, .778 OPS, 30 HR, 88 2B, 10 3B, 172 RBI, 195 R
Unranked Cubs catching prospect Victor Caratini (about 2 years younger than Knapp)
352 games, 1,255 AB, .275 BA, .363 OBP, .761 OPS, 14 HR, 96 2B, 8 3B, 165 RBI, 154 R
Offensively these guys are pretty identical if you ask me. So Knapp must be head and shoulders above Caratini defensively. Only if it is pitch framing, otherwise Caratini’s defensive stats are way better than Knapp’s. Yet Knapp is ranked as the 80th best prospect in the game, and Caratini doesn’t crack the list, and barely makes it on the Cubs top 30 list at #25.
Bottom line, and this is all you have to read and should just take my word for it; prospect rankings lists are a bunch of Bull Sh**. More made up and meaningless than the WAR “stat.”
You know nothing about how prospects are ranked, do you?
I’m curious, how are they ranked??
This is no shot at anyone I’d just like to genuinely see the answers here
Skill sets (current and projected) far outweigh actual minor league stats. Generally speaking, with the very top prospects, you’ll see those skill sets translate to great minor league stats, but that’s not always the case. Looking at any of the top prospect lists, you’ll see plenty of guys with “elite tools” that haven’t put it together yet ranked ahead of players with much better minor league stats but lesser tools.
Hence Byron Buxton?? His skill sets are crazy good but he has yet been able to put it together. Meanwhile players who show actual production don’t get ranked as high because someone else could maybe eventually be a better ball player. Seems flawed
I hope/assume Theo and Hoyer realize they don’t NEED Chapman or Miller…. or Betances for that matter. ESPECIALLY if the Yankee front office is as delusional on the respective players’ values as the Yankee fans seem to be. Yankee fans seem to believe they are in the power position here. They aren’t. There are plenty of viable relief options out there for WAAAAY cheaper a price. The Yankees on the other hand, if they don’t make a trade they are the same, crappy .500 or worse team they have been this year and don’t look any better in the foreseeable future. If the Yankees and their fans think they can hold on to Miller and hope that they will be a way better team next year, ok I get that……. I don’t see how they’ll get any better unless they revert to old George Steinbrenner tactics of overpaying for the biggest names in free agency though. Pretty sure Hank has said he doesn’t want to do that seeing as that strategy cost them a ton of money and resulted in only 1 world series ring. Poor bang for your buck value. So maybe they think if they hold onto Miller his trade value will somehow rise next year despite having one less year of control???? I don’t know, it makes sense to them, but so does asking for top tier prospects for just relievers in return.
To the Yankee fans thinking these guys demand top tier prospects in return. All I have to ask you is this. Who is better… or should I say more valuable? Chapman or Miller? Clear answer IMO is Chapman. Look at the pile of mediocrity they coughed up to the Reds to pry Chapman away from them.
Caleb Cotham…….. Cubs equivalent would be someone like Zac Rosscup, difference being Rosscup is better, hahaahaha, it’s hard to find someone as bad as Caleb Cotham
Rookie Davis……… Cubs equivalent would be someone like Paul Blackburn
Eric Jagielo……….. Cubs equivalent would be Jacob Hannemann
Tony Renda………. Cubs Equivalent would be John Andreoli
So if we want to go with complete fairness, I’d say Paul Blackburn and John Andreoli for Aroldis Chapman is more than equivalent to what the Yankees gave up for Chapman in the first place. They gave up 4 mediocre-bad players to have Chapman’s service for about 2 months and 3 weeks (due to suspension). They get 2 mediocre players from the Cubs to forfeit Chapman’s services for the last 2 months of the season. I mean if Chapman is worth 4 mediocre players for just 1 guaranteed season, how is he not worth AT MOST 2 mediocre players for only 2 months of the season before he hits free agency?
The Yankees can give Chapman the qualifying offer and get a 1st round comp pick if he leaves. They obviously will expect to get more than that if they are going to move him and hurt their already small chances of getting into the wild card game this year. I think they will want a close to majors starting pitcher and a low level lottery ticket guy.
Wait KB, you’re saying that if a player gets traded once, he should bring back a similar package if he is traded another time for “complete fairness”???
How about every team offer the Cubs a backend starter and a backup Catcher in that case for Arrieta and Strop since that is what the Cubs gave up to get Arrieta and Strop
Boston is now loaded on the left side…. The only way he’s involved would be in a three team trade going elsewhere …..
I think it is all agreed that Chapman is more valuable than Miller. Saves trump Holds. That said I don’t get how Yankee fans can think either of these guys are worth more than 2 mediocre prospects. Maybe more than that in Miller’s case just because he comes with 2 years of control. But in Chapman’s case, worth no more than two “no name” type prospects. How did I come to this “outlandish” claim? Look at what the Yankees gave up for him in the offseason. They made that deal likely with the thought in their head that they were going to compete this year and have Chapman all year – and hope to sign him to an extension. So what did they think Chapman was worth for a whole season?
P Caleb Cotham, P Rookie Davis, 3B/DH Eric Jagielo, and 2Bman Tony Renda.
Yet for some f***ed up reason the Yankees and Yankee fans think he is worth the likes of Kyle Schwarber for only 2 months of the season guaranteed? IMO that tells me they aren’t serious about trading any of their relievers and the Hoyer and Theo need to quit wasting their time with the Yankees and their delusions. There are way more viable options out there who will get the job done. Bedrosian out in LA is having a stellar season out of the pen. Sure he is a righty and not a lefty, but stellar numbers are stellar numbers. Look no further than the South Side and see if the stubborn Reinsdorf and Co. will do a trade with the Cubs. Nate Jones and Zach Duke are intriguing to me and despite Reinsdorf’s past unwillingness to trade with the Cubs due to his jealousy I’m sure a reasonable deal can be made to make both sides happy and the Cubs could land both Jones and Duke. I say……. Jeimer Candelario and John Andreoli for both Duke and Jones. Or they can go ask the trade happy, fire selling Padres if Ryan Buchter and his 2.41 ERA and 1.10 WHIP as a lefty out of the pen is available. OR, and this is what I wish they’d do. Inquire about Matt Moore from the Rays. Pretty sure the Rays said they have made him and pretty much every Ray available with Archer being the only exception. Vogelbach and a PTBNL type player is all it SHOULD take to land Matt Moore who has pretty ugly numbers since returning from I’m guessing Tommy John surgery (only 2 games in 2014, 12 games in 2015….. assuming that large chunk of time in between was TJ surgery and recovery). His number in the 12 starts to close out last year were pitiful. His numbers this year are pretty pedestrian as well, but he has been better as of late and I am sure the Rays are going to use that as an excuse to be unreasonable in their demands. Realistically his career, just shy of 4.00 ERA and career 1.35 WHIP aren’t exactly something to drool over. I say Vogelbach plus some other random dude should be MORE than enough to land Moore. Then Slide Moore into the pen and hope he has the same success as a reliever as Wade Davis has had since he made the switch a few years ago. Unlike Miller or Chapman, Moore comes with “decent starting pitcher” on his resume. So if Hammel or Hendricks, or any SP the Cubs currently has goes down with an injury down the stretch they have a viable replacement in Moore. Versatility is this Cubs team’s calling card and going after Moore and doing as I say seems to fit them a hell of a lot more than overpaying for 1 inning specialists in Miller and Chapman……. Chapman being a rental at that. Theo usually pulls one over on teams on trades. Don’t let it happen to you, Theo. IMO avoid NY and their insane demands like the plague. PLENTY of other lefty relievers, or just quality relievers in general, in the sea who can be had for a fraction of the asking price IMO. Personally I like the Vogelbach and lower level prospect for Jones and Duke possibility, or the Moore for Vogelbach and a lower level prospect possibility WAY more than I like anything I hear out of NY.
That trade was made knowing he would be suspended but not knowing how long he would be suspended. The Reds panicked after their Dodgers trade fell thru. They did not want to deal with the outcry of having him on their team when the news hit. Please stop acting like the Yankees didn’t just swoop in an take advantage of the situation. Now that he served his time we get to see his true value.
Well, Chapman is still worth less than what the Padres got for Kimbrel and WAY less than Yankee fans seem to think. That said, IMO the Padres didn’t get much more in the Kimbrel deal than in the Reds got in the Chapman deal. Yet he came with years, plural, of control AND Kimbrel’s just as good if not better than Chapman. His resume was at least prettier. Miller’s got nothing on either of the two guys and yet Yankee fans think he’s worth the most, hahahahaha. Miller’s resume compared to Chapman and Kimbrel is like comparing Anthony Rizzo’s resume to James Loney’s, and coming to the conclusion that James Loney is worth more in a trade, hahahaha. James Loney by no means is a bad player. He has a career .285 BA, .338 OBP, and .750 OPS. It’s just that he doesn’t have the power or flash most other 1Bmen have. He plays a role on his team it is just a small role. Much like Miller. He’s a left specialist. Pitches maybe 60 innings per season out of the pen and has only been REALLY good at it for 2.5 years. Before that Miller was a joke of a player, and widely considered a major bust not long ago pre-2014 season. Yes he is great at his role…… but it is such a minor role. If Yankee fans think Miller is worth the likes of Schwarber, then the Cubs need to shop Rondon. Not only is Rondon better than Miller, but he also has the saves on his resume. With Yankee fan logic Rondon is worth about Carlos Correa and Ken Giles.
Miller is worth more than Chapman right now because of his contract. He is in no way, shape, or form a lefty specialist; actually, he has been even more dominant against righties over the last three years. Nobody cares that he struggled as a starter years ago.
I’m not going to opine whether he’s worth Schwarber, but I think you’re way off on your assessment. He’s one of the very best relievers in baseball and his contract is a huge asset.
Let’s be realistic.
Miller for Schwarber is a stupid trade for Cubs.
Miller AND Chapman for Schwarber is enticing and a more than a fair deal, but Cubs wouldn’t do it.
Schwarber isn’t going to get traded. End of story.
Is that true? Was that his former handle?
If that’s the case, Ryan Williams would probably fit the bill. He’s a soft tosser with great control. He has a higher floor, but definitely lower ceiling, the type of guy rebuilds usually begin rotations with. More would/should be added (higher ceiling lower level prospect).
Chapman and Miller will get you one top prospect or 2 to 3 prospects from 50 to 100. Chapman clocked at 104 again last night both are ungodly!!!
Betances and Miller for Schwarber, Candelario and Pierce Johnson.