The Dodgers’ decision to back out of last December’s agreed-upon Aroldis Chapman trade wasn’t solely the mandate of ownership but was a collective consensus between the baseball operations staff and the ownership group, writes Jon Heyman in his latest notes column at FanRag Sports. By the time the baseball operations staff reached out to managing partner Mark Walter about the domestic violence allegations with which Chapman was faced, they’d already decided the deal should no longer be pursued, and Walter agreed. Heyman also adds that the three prospects that would’ve gone to Cincinnati in that deal ultimately wound up in the Reds organization anyhow, as the proposed package was Jose Peraza, Scott Schebler and Brandon Dixon for Chapman. Those three all went to the Reds in the three-team trade that sent Todd Frazier to the White Sox. (The Dodgers received Trayce Thompson, Micah Johnson and Frankie Montas from the Sox in that deal.)
A few more notes on the Dodgers…
- Heyman also reports that there have been some “very preliminary contract talks” between the Dodgers and impending free agent Justin Turner, though there’s been nothing serious enough to indicate that Turner will forgo the open market this winter. Turner has said he’d love to remain with the Dodgers, but on the heels of a monster season, he should find widespread demand for his services. The 31-year-old (32 in November) batted .275/.339/.493 with 27 homers in 151 games this season and erased a dreadful first April/May with a torrid four-month stretch to close out the season. He also grades out as a premium defender at the hot corner, all of which contributed to his 4.9 rWAR and 5.6 fWAR in 2016. He’s also been a brilliant performer thus far in his short postseason career, hitting .405/.519/.667 in 52 plate appearances. While that doesn’t necessarily do much for his free-agent stock, it certainly can’t hurt him and figures to be brought up by his agents as they seek the best deal possible for their client this winter.
- Manager Dave Roberts tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that he told Kenley Jansen before the 2016 season even began that he planned to get him at least a half-dozen outings in which he pitched more than one inning over the life of the regular season as a means for preparing him for the postseason, and that indeed played out. Jansen was also candid with Rosenthal in explaining that he felt his trust was betrayed when former GM Ned Colletti signed Brandon League to a three-year deal in the wake of Jansen being diagnosed with and treated for an irregular heartbeat. He didn’t mind the possibility of the Dodgers adding Chapman this winter, stressing that he only asked that Friedman be up front with him about what might happen. And it should be noted that former teammate A.J. Ellis also spoke to Rosenthal about how frank Jansen is when discussing free agency. Ellis compared him to Zack Greinke in some respects, noting that Jansen feels he’s earned his one opportunity at a lucrative free-agent deal and figures to go to the highest bidder.
- Yasmani Grandal’s struggles at the plate this postseason are reminiscent of his offensive woes last year in the playoffs, after which he underwent shoulder surgery, but the catcher tells Pedro Moura of the L.A. Times that he’s not injured this time around. Grandal isn’t letting his lack of offense so far get to him, as he clearly laid out to Moura that his priorities are his defensive work/game-calling behind the plate, then drawing walks, then slugging at the plate. “I’m hitting seventh, and there’s a reason why they have me hitting seventh,” he said. “They want me to make sure I run the pitching staff like it’s supposed to be ran.” Grandal also talked about his frequent visits to the mound this October, explaining that the Dodgers are keenly aware of which players on opposing teams can relay signs to hitters at the plate when they’re standing on second base.
Lol AJ Ellis was the one that snitched on Puig to Rosenthal. So glad to Dodgers traded him. He’s two-faced.
I was wondering who “Ellis” was. This post doesn’t seem to ever use his full name, which is a bit unorthodox..
i remember tim federowicz saying AJ was extra catty to him and didn’t want to help him out because he saw him as competition. i can’t find that article, but i remember seeing that. i didn’t pay much attention and thought it was sour grapes for tim, but now you wonder
also, notice how all the puig’s a problem stories stopped after aj was traded. dude probably is also salty that carlos ruiz is playing so well with the dodgers.
He is a clown, who happened to befriend Kershaw
There’s nonsense, awful nonsense, and then, this.
Totally agree. AJ haters go hate somewhere else
I look at it more like he (Ellis) is honest.. it’s pretty well documented that Puig isn’t a good teammate.
But he made up a story saying Puig stormed out of the stadium when the Dodgers sent him down, but Puig wasn’t even there. Assuming, of course, he’s Rosenthal’s source.
Ya a lot of the heat puig has gotten is unfair. Sure he has deserved some, but most of it is bull. The domestic abuse claim hurt his character, yet that wasn’t true. Snapchat gate was also overblown. The best teams lose 60 games a year, are we supposed to expect all the players to complain and mourn after every loss? And if Ellis really did make up a story about him, that just adds to the unfair hate.
He is/was the mole, another nice move by the Baseball ops dept. add that to the 15 injured pitchers they signed. What will they say if/when Cubs win a World Series?
All those “injured” pitchers they signed are the only reason they’re in the playoffs. They were signed as depth pieces and pretty much every one of them was used.
It’s documented by Ellis, who hated him personally and unprofessionally, ergo, it might all be entirely false.
Anyone out there ever been victimized by someone at their work simply because they didn’t like you? All it takes is one person to work against you and suddenly it starts caving in from all sides.
Can somebody explain what they would of used chapman for, he seems to good to be just a lefty specialist. Would they have traded Jansen?
Jansen probably would have been moved to an 8th inning role, similarly to how Andrew Miller was moved back after the Yankees traded for Chapman
Except that it should be totally clear to everyone by now that Dave Roberts doesn’t believe in roles.
No they wouldn’t have traded Jansen. Just because you’re a lefty that’s not the closer doesn’t mean you can only face lefties. Look at Francona with Miller.
I was just asking a question.
Many managers use the “I have two devastating relievers and I will use them in whatever the situation dictates” nowdays, so I’m sure Roberts would have used them in matchups.
Just good as a lefty specialist? RHB are hitting .166.270/.251 LHB are hitting .122/.237/.155. He obviously pitches to LHB better but any team would be dumb to strictly use him as a LOOGY
You are out of your mind if you think Chapman is just a left specialist. Check his stats. Highest k/9 innings amounts closers and splits of righties vs lefties is dead even. Pretty much no one hits him. And he was traded twice this last year to teams who already had closers (Yankees/ Cubs) and both times he was named the NEW Closer. He would have been the main closer in LA and also be used along with Jansen for matchup closing games and the 8th innings.
I think they would have just had a killer late inning bullpen.
Lefty specialist? Chapman is one of top 4 relievers in MLB and likely would have stepped in as closer for Dodgers. Better ERA, FIP, xFIP, K/9, HR/9, % of runner stranded. Across the board, Chapman is just a little better.
I would assume Chapman would have closed and they would have moved Kenley to the 8th to create one of the best late bullpens in baseball.
They would have used Chapman as setup. Imagine Chapman coming in the 6th for a few outs, followed by Jansen to close out the games during the post season. Then if Jansen signs elsewhere in the offseason as a FA, they would make Chapman the closer next year. Oh well, we can only dream of that now.
Chapman is also a free agent after the season.
Both are scheduled to be free agents, so Chapman wouldn’t have been a lock to go back to the Dodgers.
Remember when everyone criticized the Reds for the Frazier trade, then schebler and peraza played better than Frazier did?
I do I do!
The Todd Frazier trade is one that will look MUCH better in hindsight than it was initially received. Many preferred the package of prospects that ended up with the Dodgers over those who went to the Reds, but Peraza had a great year and Schebler had at least a good one. The Reds bought low on Peraza and Schebler, and sold Frazier early enough into his decline.
It would’ve been nice if a Chapman for Peraza and Schebler deal had gone through, so Frazier could be moved for other prospects. Alas, domestic violence allegations and poor timing made them settle for Rookie Davis and others.
The Reds will get 2 everyday plyrs and look what LA got in return, none are on the playoff roster, if LA would have hit on 20% of their supposed acquisitions, they would be the favorite. Luck for the previous regime
Tracye Thompson would’ve been on the roster if his back didn’t give out. And Montas was traded for Rich Hill and Riddick.
Montas was flipped in a package that returned Hill to the Dodgers. I’m pretty sure the Dodgers are happy how it turned out as well.
Actually 2 are on the roster so you didn’t follow up with the pieces that they got. Montas was packaged with another arm and LA got back Hill and Reddick.
Two everyday players? I can understand Peraza but as of now that’s just 1. It’s unfair to judge that trade just yet. We all know schebler can thrive in that ban box, but has he really shown anything besides that. The way Thompson was swinging the bat before his back injury was making Puig entirely expandable. His injury seemed to coincide with his slump. Plus Toles made his presence know. You look at the two Toles has the arm to play in rf and the speed to play in cf unlike schebler who is a LF corner guy in a regular stadium. This was a great trade for all three teams. Reds received a future burner who can play cf, as, and 2nd. The dodger not only found an interesting piece in Thompson but also pieces to flip in the Hill and Reddick trade. Part of those pieces originated from the dumping of Olivera which turned out to be another great move.
Schebler had a really strong second half, taking over after Jay Bruce was traded. He hit really well off RHPs. Schebler is pretty speedy for a big guy, and actually played a bunch of September in CF. Obviously that’s not his long term home, but that versatility helps. As you basically said, GABP is basically built for lefty power hitters like Schebler.
Hill and Reddick are headed to free agency. Acquired for Montas, that was a win-now deal. I hope it pays off! Beat the Cubs! It’s sorta a deal the Dodgers had to make, but I hope they can justify it by reaching the World Series. Meanwhile the Cubs gave up a lot for Chapman, in hopes of that same World Series title…
Someone’s autocorrect is a Vin Diesel fan.
The issue wasn’t just the package that the Reds got, much like the Chapman trade it was the fact that they could have gotten much more then they did.
Chapman alone netted double or triple what the Yankees gave up to get him. Fraizer wasn’t traded at the right time because ownership thought that the fans wouldn’t know what to do if he was dealt around the All Star game when it was in Cincinnati. One of the worst front offices in the game when it comes to making deals when they need to be made.
If Dave Roberts isn’t manager of the year then something is very, very wrong.
Agreed! But then again Kemp was robbed of MVP when he clearly was so who knows. But I don’t see how they can not give this Roberts and Saeger better win ROY also.
Seager should also be considered in the MVP voting. Without him where would the Dodgers be? Probably watching the playoffs.
Don’t know why it double posted, apologies.
Absolutely. Roberts has shown so much this season both as a technical manager and in the way he relates to his ballplayers. I wasn’t ever a Mattingley hater but for sure I am a Roberts admirer.
Roberts is not afraid to listen to his players over all , when he changed his mind with Kershaw he showed me a lot. He is comfortable in his skin. He bridges the front office to the field which is a great quality.
ESPN will make sure that Maddon wins it! Maybe Roberts should start dressing like an aging hipster, then I think the rulers of the universe ESPN might notice.
***ROBERTS FOR PRESIDENT***
The problem for Roberts is that Dodger payroll. Also, this team happens to have won three consecutive division crowns coming into this season..
Bottom line: expectations were very high, and MOY voters seem to go with teams who wildly exceeded expectations.
Do I think he deserves it? Maybe. He certainly deserves consideration.
Payroll isn’t a manager’s issue. Neither are expectations.
That’s four consecutive division titles, incidentally.
Jansen has been somewhat of a secret being on the West Coast. He is every pit a good as Miller, Chapman, and Melancon.. It will be interesting to see who get these hot closers over the winter. Teams like the Nats, Cubs, Dodgers and Giants will have to get one, who misses out. You can throw in other teams like the Yanks, Astros, and Red Sox.
This is one of those moments when we find out something about the Dodgers front office. Maybe five players can legitimately be called the faces of the franchise, and Jansen and Turner are two of them (plus Seager, Kershaw, and Gonzales). Front offices that don’t work to keep those players on the roster, especially when nobody else better is either available or coming up, are messing with fan loyalty big time.
The thing is, you could’ve said the same thing about Greinke last year or Kemp two year’s prior. They’re in the business of predicting future outcomes. They’ve shown the last few years that they know how to get rid of a guy at the exact right time.
I was going to say the exact same thing. Fans are mostly loyal to winning, not to the players who wear the jerseys.
Now, in a perfect world fans would feel emotionally invested in their team’s players AND the team would be a perennial winner — that’s certainly my dream scenario. But as the Kemp and Greinke situations showed us, your team has to make reasonable offers and stick to their guns. if they’re smart — which this Dodgers FO has damn well proved to be — then you’re gonna come out ahead in the long-run.
Look at the Cardinals. They’re a prime example of knowing when to cut bait (Pujols, Heyward, etc..) and their fans are incredibly loyal and invigorated.
FWIW, the Cards pursued both of those players (especially Heyward, who Cards seemingly offered top dollar for). And the Dodgers pursued Greinke. Not at all costs, of course. I guess I’d say they have shown a willingness to stick to internal valuations rather than getting emotionally invested or perhaps over-valuing certain off-field considerations, but I’m not sure “knowing when to cut bait” is quite how I’d put it.
Maybe it’s semantical, but to me you just defined “knowing when to cut bait.”
They create an internal valuation, they stretch it just a bit if the player is special (Cards were said to do this with Pujols, Dodgers with Greinke) and if things don’t work out then they walk..
Re-reading what I wrote, ‘cut-bait’ might have a certain negative connotation to it, I can agree with that. But I think the point I made — and the point you made — stand up quite well.
I think about the metaphor as representing parting with a sunk investment cost (time/base costs/actual bait/fishing line) without retaining the opportunity to receive a return on that investment. So, the A’s releasing Billy Butler (though even that stretches the true analogy), or a team allowing a former top draft pick to depart via waiver claim.
I really didn’t mean to call you out or anything, ha. I get your point re Pujols/Greinke for sure — mostly didn’t feel Heyward was a great example of it.
Actually, no you couldn’t. Kemp didn’t exactly slouch his way through the last two seasons and they dropped a lot of cash to get rid of him. And I would not call Grienke’s career anything close to over after one down season, and the Dodgers’ FO was prepared to pay him nearly as much as he got from Arizona.
Totally agree, the Dodgers have the money and should resign both Turner and Jansen. If they had signed Greinke they would have been favorites this year.
The Dodgers were already division favorites on paper without Greinke.
And look at what happened with Greinke this year. He had a pretty mediocre season by his standards, and now the Diamondbacks couldn’t even give him away for free if they wanted to.
who cares if they would have been favorites!? that is the stuff of talking heads. what happened in the real world is that they won the division and are now tied in the NLCS with the “best team in baseball”. And they did that without spending stupid money on Greinke and sacrificing future years for this year. they absolutely made the right call not to resign him. Anybody that says otherwise is crazy. They should approach the Turner and Jansen situation the same way. They should be willing to pay full price and plus some, but not pay a ludicrous amount if some other team offers it like AZ did with Greinke.
BTW- It still blows my mind there were people upset the Dodgers didn’t resign Greinke last winter. That contract is just insane and the Diamondbacks are going to be regretting it for a while now.
It’s over with who cares. Btw with Grienke being on the shelf with a should injury wouldn’t have mattered and they’d probably would be in a worse situation seeing that they probably wouldn’t have obtained Hill.
The key part of my original comment was the lack of better available free agent or internal options at those positions. When teams fail to keep players who aren’t readily replaceable with players of at least equal quality, fans tend to actually notice.
I wouldn’t be surprised if guys like Wade Davis, Alex Colome, Jeanmar Gomez, Tyler Thornburg, or even Edwin Diaz get some attention in the trade market? I think we could see some trades for closers as well, which makes more available options.
Maybe, but with Chapman, Jansen, and Melancon available teams won’t have to give up prospects and these guys are some of the best.
I’f I’m Dayton Moore, I’m shopping Wade Davis hardcore. (excuse the unintentional rhyme)
You know Davis is not going to bring back a package like Miller or Chapman did, but my God, with the way teams are valuing elite relievers right now Moore’s got to be considering it. .
What offensive struggles for Grandal are they talking about? He has 27 home runs, a .339 OBP and a .816 OPS. He didn’t struggle at all.
they were talking about his struggles in the postseason which he has definitely had. He needs to lay off the breaking ball down and he would be much better off.