The Mariners have moved swiftly on a second trade of the day, officially adding outfielder Jarrod Dyson from the Royals in exchange for righty Nate Karns, as Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune first reported (via Twitter). The speedy Dyson will take the place in the Seattle outfield just vacated by Seth Smith, while Karns will presumably enter the rotation mix for Kansas City.
For Seattle, this swap plainly functions in concert with the Smith deal, which brought in starter Yovani Gallardo. Evidently, the M’s prefer the combination of the veteran Gallardo and Dyson to the team’s preexisting assets. GM Jerry Dipoto cited Dyson’s “elite level defense and base running” as the motivating factors for his addition (via Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times, on Twitter).
While the earlier swap involved a pair of short-term veterans (though Gallardo does come with an option), the Mariners sacrificed some control with this move. Dyson, 32, is entering his final year of team control, though he’s still plenty affordable with a projected $2.5MM arbitration salary. The 29-year-old Karns, meanwhile, is still controllable through 2020 as a 2+ service-class player.
[RELATED: Updated Mariners & Royals Depth Charts]
Though Dyson, like Smith, hits from the left side, they are otherwise quite different players. Dyson isn’t quite as adept with the bat in hand as is Smith. He has never finished a year with even an average batting line. Last year, though, was his best yet in the majors, as he hit .278/.340/.388 over 337 plate appearances. Though he hit well in very limited duty against southpaws last year, Dyson has generally struggled without the platoon advantage, limiting his ability to play as a regular.
Unlike the lumbering Smith, Dyson earns his keep on the basepaths and in the field. On a rate basis, Dyson is perhaps the game’s most valuable overall baserunner. Despite just 1,091 plate appearances over the past four years, he has accumulated the sixth-highest total BsR score from Fangraphs (23.2); for reference, Billy Hamilton comfortably paces the league with 36.6 BsR, though he has taken nearly 50% more trips to the plate. Dyson is also a consistent threat to run, having tallied 176 total steals in his seven full or partial major-league seasons.
Dyson is equally impressive with the glove. In that same four-year span, he’s 13th in the game in total defensive value (by Fangraphs’ UZR-based measure). Again, that compares favorably to the game’s very best fielder, Andrelton Simmons, who has nearly hit the century mark in defensive runs since 2013 but has over twice Dyson’s trips to the plate. Though Leonys Martin, another left-handed hitter, could conceivably hold onto his job as the regular in center, Dyson is obviously capable of playing there as well. That’s not to say that Dyson can’t impact the game from a corner spot, if that’s where he ends up; Seattle certainly now has plenty of options with a defensive unit laden with quality fielders.
Still, it could end up being a hefty price to pay if Karns can harness his evident talent. Last year, he compiled only a 5.15 ERA over 94 1/3 innings, which he compiled over 15 starts and seven relief appearances. But even as he struggled with his command (4.3 BB/9) Karns managed to strike out more than a hitter per inning. And he was a highly productive, MLB starter as recently as 2015, when he gave the Rays 147 frames of 3.67 ERA ball with 8.9 K/9 against a more palatable 3.4 BB/9.
Karns’s struggles in 2016 may be attributed at least in part to some misfortune, as he allowed a slightly elevated .327 BABIP and ended up with a rather low 69.0% strand rate. He also managed to show a return to the 93 mph average range with his fastball after dropping a bit in the prior year. And despite the increased walks, Karns actually worked in the zone more than ever before (48.8%) while increasing his swinging-strike rate to a personal-best 10.9%.
There are some areas of concern, though. Karns spent a lengthy stretch on the DL with a back strain, though he did nearly return to action late in the season. And he had shoulder surgery earlier in his career, which delayed his advancement to the majors. For what it’s worth, this is also the third time he has been traded since 2014. (He was originally shipped from the Nationals to the Rays that spring, in exchange for Jose Lobaton, Felipe Rivero, and Drew Vettleson, and later moved to the Mariners in the fall of 2015 in in a six-player swap.)
It’s not immediately clear what role Karns will play in Kansas City, but he ought to at least have a chance to compete for a starting job in camp. Other options for the back of the rotation include Jason Vargas, Chris Young, Matt Strahm, Mike Minor, and Alec Mills. If he isn’t immediately utilized as a starter, it’s possible that K.C. could look to find out whether Karns’s stuff might play up in a full-time relief capacity. He also can still be optioned for one more season, so it’s possible he could end up opening the year at Triple-A.
Parting with Dyson also opens up the outfield competition for the Royals, who otherwise likely would have used him in a platoon of some kind. But his importance to the organization was lessened by the acquisition of Jorge Soler, who the club will hope is capable of playing regularly alongside Alex Gordon and Lorenzo Cain. Other players in the outfield mix include Paulo Orlando, Whit Merrifield, Billy Burns, and perhaps prospects Hunter Dozier, Bubba Starling, and Jorge Bonifacio. While only Gordon and Burns hit from the left side (the latter as a switch-hitter), there are obviously plenty of options on hand.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
bad move royals
Yeah I can’t say I’m fond of this move either.
It’s a bonehead move by the Royals they most be trying to save money lets see how many double A players on this roster in 2017
The only “bonehead” part about it is the mere fact that yes, the Royals ARE trying to save money. I don’t think they should be concerning themselves with such a thing until next year at the very earliest.
That having been said, they ARE trying to save money and this move does exactly that. Dyson was going to make anywhere from $2-3 million in 2017 while Karns will only make a fraction of that.
Before making this move, the Royals had 5 Major League level outfielders on their roster: Alex Gordon, Lorenzo Cain, Jorge Soler, Jarrod Dyson and Paulo Orlando. How is getting rid of one of them a boneheaded move? Would it have been smarter to pay Dyson $3 million to spend at least 75% of his time sitting on the bench? All the while NEEDING more starting pitching depth?
Lastly, as of right now, the Royals starting lineup will most likely include Alex Gordon, Mike Moustakas, Lorenzo Cain, Eric Hosmer, Jorge Soler, Salvador Perez, Whit Merrifield, Paulo Orlando and Alcides Escobar. All but 2 of those guys were on the 2015 World Series winning team. Hardly double A talent.
In other words, you made a very “bonehead” comment.
Burns was a starter when with Oakland and is basically a Dyson clone, and cheaper. That’s why Dyson was available.
Really? Trading a 4th OF that’s about to hit FA for a 29-year-old starter who has a live fastball, some big league success and is under team control through 2020 is a bad move?
What, you thought Dyson would bring back an ace-level starter?
Yeah but Dyson could be a ridiculous stolen base machine if he stayed healthy in a starting role. Karns has mostly struggled in his first 4 years.
Billy Burns, Dyson’s replacement, can be a ridiculous stolen base machine as well.
As for Karns, he’s pitched to a combined 4.25 ERA and 1.36 WHIP over the past two years—the only two years in which he tossed more than 12 big league innings.
But yeah, you’re right—he sucks.
You’re making some huge leaps from the last guy saying “Karns struggled” to “this guy sucks”.
Dyson isn’t a starter. Not if used properly. He’s a 4th OF and can win you a tie game as a pinch runner. (having said that – he also makes an irritating number of base running mistakes)
Felix or Bust
Burns has to get on base in order to steal. He’s also terrible at reading pitchers’ moves.
For many, only two options exist.
1. Quality MLB regular.
2. Sucks.
No in-between.
But dyson is never healthy
^ this guy here gets it.
Karns is lousy. Just wait till he starts getting shelled. You’ll see lol
What kind of return were you expecting for 1 year of Dyson?
Karns is at least useful as a back end starter.
The royals will turn Karns into an elite level relief pitcher/closer. Kid needs to know his role. Reminds me a lot of the wade Davis “throw in” in the shields trade.
That was my thought….same mold as Hochevar and Davis.
My thoughts also. Amazing the last 2 Seattle deals.. Giving away Seth Smith for the hapless Gallardo, not to mention way overpaid and now moving the superior Karns in his stead.
They have traded superior players to both they received at the same positions, even if Karns should be converted to the setup role? He had a use there.
Seattle might not be the fun team to watch next season after getting hoodwinked out of Walker, Smith and now giving away Karns.
I’ll be fair and say DiPoto is trying to build his own organization. None of the players he dealt is a sure thing….including Walker. For the most part these are background deals….Seth Smith and Karns…it’s not earth shattering. We’ll see..the Seattle OF defense just got better….they still hinge in Cano-Seager-Cruz. Paxton might be someone to watch….but yeah they havent probably pushed into the texas and houston tier….but they haven’t killed themselves. Gallardo is healthy and hes atleast Karns on the back of the rotation. Well see.
John silver- you’re entitled to your own opinion and I like to read away fans insight into my Mariners players but here’s my Mariners fan view- Karns was just never able to ‘put it all together’ playing for Seattle. He’d be cruising right along then get rattled by a hit or HR. He nibbled on the edges too much. Frustrating to watch. Raw stuff was great but not sure he has the mental capacity to be a big league starter. Ceiling is maybe a #4 starter. We have plenty #4 and 5 starters. RP? Seth Smith was a LH bat that hit righties well and played poor defense, slow on the base pads. Safeco field calls for speedy defensively strong OF’ers. That is not SSmith. Really patient hitter tho. No idea what you mean by getting hoodwinked out of TY Walker- who has a higher ceiling than Karns but like him can be such a frustrating pitcher. IMO Walker will never meet the lofty expectations. Doesn’t have the mental fortitude. We did well trading a pitcher who will never be a true ace.
Do watch a lot of Mariner games on East coast as Dave Sims pretty much made me a fan with his broadcasting style a few years back, then began watching them a lot as the “late game” on mlb package.
Karns didn’t really have that problem u mentioned while with the rays.. That’s area currently reside and go to some games, plus they are heavily covered.. i wonder if is something that afflicts some pitchers who move sometimes? Always thought Miley would carve up hitters at seattle, yet the opposite happened. he just looked like a different pitcher altogether last year.
In 2015, Nate Karns’ numbers look almost the same as Taijuan Walker’s.
Walker and Karns are a couple projects that someone else may be more successful with. In the mean time, Jean Segura is an improvement over Ketel Marte and I do like the Mariner’s using 4 fast CFs in the OF.
The mystery is why Yovani Gallardo?
I wonder if they had a salary-swap trade worked out in case they could land an OF, and basically just pulled the trigger on that when they knew they were getting Dyson. Adding him seems to me to be the driving force behind both trades.
Not based on 2016 numbers…Dyson (3.1 WAR) and Gallardo (0.2) are worth more than Smith (0.5) and Karns (o.2). Want to go back one more year to 2015? Dyson/Gallardo (6.3 WAR total for 2015) are still worth more than Smith/Karns (4.1).
Yeah if acquiring Gallardo was the driving force DiPoto should retire from baseball altogether
Good reference. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see.
Nice moves by the Mariners.
Karns won’t be in the rotation at first
Opens things up for Jorge Solar I guess.
Horrible for the Royals. Probably could have gotten Wacha from the Cards. A lot more upside for a team with a one year window to win
Wow…
I think you’ve been drinking sir
So are you on crack or meth?
For real? Wacha.. riiiiiiiggghhhhht
But… But… It worked on MLB The Show!!
Hahaha
Not as much with baseball but it’s easy to spot football and hockey fans who come up with their trade ideas from Madden or NHL 17.
They are always oddly specific with their draft picks.
Yep, and they probably could get Corey Seager for Lorenzo Cain, right?
No mate… don’t think so… perfectly fine return…
Sounds like bigpapi4ever decided to become a Royals fan after Ortiz’s retirement
You all take everything way too personal for an internet forum. It’s like a small town high school here, everyone remembers those who have left, and everyone already knows those who just showed up. That and the jokes stay the same, repeated by everyone.
sources are reporting that you are not receiving rave reviews on knowing how comment sections on the internet work my friend
Hahahaha!!! You beat me to it!
Yeah like the MLB: The Show trading jokes. Those are getting quite old.
What?
I don’t think that Wacha is a good enough return for Dyson they would’ve needed to throw in Matt Carpenter and maybe a top prospect or two
only if the prospect is Reyes otherwise it’s not enough for dyson
Nice little pickup for the M’s. Good defense and adds speed on the bases.
Agreed. Definite move toward speed and defense in the outfield. I like the move.
I think Dyson is a decent player, but horribly overrated. Below average arm, takes terrible routs to the ball (that’s why you see him make some spectacular catches, he misplays way too many balls). He refuses to hit the ball on the ground and once stated he swings for the fences. Great speed on the bases but tries to look good and often slides off the base. Makes his share of bone headed plays.
I wonder how many commenting find nearly every flaw of any outgoing player and all the upside of incoming talent? Not that there is anything wrong with that, just seems that’s how everyone reacts to moves.
‘Refuses to hit ground balls’
(Has career 58.2% GB percentage, well above league average)
‘Takes terrible routes’
(Yet UZR/DRS/any self respecting defensive grading system sees him as an elite defender).
Stats don’t lie partner.
Refuses to hit the ball on the ground? Dyson has a 57.8 percent ground-ball rate since 2014, which is 13th among 410 MLB hitters with at least 400 PA in that time.
Actually he does takes some terrible routes at times. He’s lucky he has the speed to make up for it, wherein the stats can , in fact, lie
As a Royals fan – that’s a pretty poor scouting report on Jarrod Dyson.
KB8919 I’d bet my house that he’s a better fielder than Seth Smith tho. Good addition by the Ms
He said routs not routes
SPEED!!!!! not expecting this move whatsoever but I like the team even more. The M’s have a speedy outfield with a high-caliber defense.
Solid get for a speedy outfielder who can’t hit. If the Mariners make the playoffs he will be much more valuable as a pinch runner in late game situations. Karns is a solid rotation piece that won’t be a FA until 2021, getting back controllable talent is all you can ask for.
His BA is very good actually
He hit .280… what do you mean he can’t hit?
^Yeah the OP must be high on something, .280 is very good
Completely agree that this is a good deal for both sides. Fills a void for both.
I am not a royals fan at all but this trade really bothered me. Why would you trade your speedy .280 hitter with solid defense for a right-hander with with a 5.15 ERA?
Because Dyson isn’t a very good hitter and only has one year of control compared to Karns four. Not that hard to figure this one out. Solid move for KC.
I agree. We know what Dyson’s ceiling is. Yes, he might hit a little better, give or take. Karns has a great live arm, without a ton of mileage, he’s controllable, cheap, his ceiling could be a 2-3 starter, I think. If he’s health. He had a high BABIP last year, and had back problems. There are “ifs”, but I think this is a great move for KCR. Plus they have other options in the outfield, and this could open the door for another move. It’s a good lottery ticket to have: Controllable starting pitching.
Smells a little like another Royals bullpen project like Wade Davis and Luke Hochevar to me.
Stinky- after watching nearly each one of Natharn Karns starts last year (I was excited about him after the TB trade) I can assure you his ceiling is not a 2-3 starter. Maybe (if he stops overthinking, trying to get cute w his placement,) he can be a solid #4 most likely #5 starter. TBH, I see him a a really good RP
Luke “DL” Hochevar?
I have no idea what Hochevar was doing while on the DL….I was more referring to the guy who couldn’t break through as a starter, but was a great reliever.
The Royals have a logjam in the OF and perhaps they have some scouting on Karns where they think they can either fix him or like others have suggested turn him into a reliever
Man, the over value on Dyson is so thick you can chop it down with a chainsaw
1
He’s pretty comfortably a ~2 WAR player with 300 PA’s. Pretty nice little skill set.
As a long time Royals fan I love Dyson and did not expect the Royals to actually trade him this year, That said, Karns is very good return for the one remaining year of Dyson’s service prior to free agency. Unless there is something secretly wrong with Karns (I notice he has been traded away already by three teams).
I agree it’s a very nice return for Dyson. The reason Karns has been traded so much is that, even though he has good stuff, he struggles to go deep into games. If he doesn’t figure it out soon I could still see him being a super pen arm who throws 100~ innings out of the pen.
They put him in the pen this year, he was easily one of the worst relievers I have ever seen. He just diddnt have the right mentality.
Well he’s about to join a team that specializes in bullpen conversions.
Well then get used to losing for another 30 years.
I’m with you….whether a #5 starter makes it or flames out in the bullpen will completely dictate whether the Royals win or lose over the next 30 years.
He could be the next Ross Ohlendorfer!
Is this like a new genre of player, the ~100 inning bullpen guy?
I like the move long term for the Royals, Karns has real ability and he might fully put it together in KC for only one year of Dyson
Wish Detroit would’ve got Dyson
Pelfrey for Dyson?
Noooooo, In addition to Mike Pelfry, the Royals could get Mark Lowe, Shane Greene, Anthony Gose, Tyler Collins, Steve Moya and any other waiver wire trash from Detroit’s roster for Jarrod Dyson or Paulo Orlando or Billy Burns.
pelfery had negative value
What did Karns have?
The Royals wanted the 4 years of control. Detroit would have had to sign Pelfrey to an extension first, lol.
People saying this trade is bad for the Royals REALLY need to consider what 1 year of Jarrod Dyson is worth.
As a Royals fan – I’m very happy with controllable back of the rotation SP for a year of Dyson.
I’ll miss Jarrod. But he’s a back up OF/defensive replacement/pinch runner. Every single time the Royals have tried to get him in regular duty – he’s been exposed.
Used correctly – he can be valuable. But again – it’s 1 year of a 4th OF.
If the Royals get as much WAR from Karns over 4 seasons than the Mariners get in 1…then I’d consider that a success. If Karns is in that rotation at age 34…that’d be great. I think there’s a better chance he ends up a setup guy.
So you got rid of Karns for another Martin (with average arm), solid more bro hahaha
Leonys Martin has accumulated 9.2 WAR the past 4 years, he’s pretty good at baseball.
Dipoto says he is still looking for another Starting pitcher, maybe he’ll make 3 trades in one day.
So do we use Gamel or Haniger?
Haniger.
Hopefully
Hopefully, yes but Jerry’s real high on Gamel.
He also thinks that Haniger is the next Kole Kalhoun.
We all would love this comparison, Calhoun is the player in the West i see a lot that i always think would fit perfectly on the M’s, both offensively and defensively
So the real question is, would you rather have:
A: Gallardo, Segura, Haniger, and Dustin
Or
B: Walker, Marte, Smith, and Karns?
I think it’s pretty close. If Segura can replicate last year success then it’s A, no question.
Dyson*
Not even close, the Mariners are trying to win now and while walker and marte and even Karns could still develop. The team is much better now with the trades and even have some players of the future with Haniger and maybe Segura
Aren’t they moving seguar back to ss, though? He’s been a pretty bad ss.
Yes. They are.
Jean Segura has a career UZR/150 of a negative 3.3 in 4,253.1 innings at shortstop, including a UZR/150 of a positive 0.6 in 1,232.1 innings in his last season (2015) at the position.
This is great. Give Dipoto a few more years in Seattle and the angels will have the second worst farm system!
Lol, he hasn’t traded away anybody off the farm yet. Only been improving our minor league talent. The Angels? Enjoy playing for last place again!
Oh yeah I don’t expect us to compete really well this year barring unforeseen luck. Let’s get that out of the way because I’m not one of those delusional Angels fans.
My point is that you’re going to have to dig into your farm system sooner when you get rid of controllable players like that. The Angels had one of the best farm systems in the 2000s and they all became MLB players and are gone now (Aybar, Kendrick, Adenhart, Weaver for example). I think it’s a good move for the short term, but you cannot deny that this move makes your team worse in a few years. Here’s hoping to you and your team that it pays off! I like the Mariners the most out of all the teams in the division, and if not the Angels in the playoffs from the AL West I would love to see them.
While I hate giving up controllable pitching Karns really hasn’t shown much to this point. All things being equal I’d rather have Karns but it’s not a killer blow. He might even end up in the pen. I really doubt this will haunt us but I guess you never know. I actually live in So Cal (born and raised) but am a die hard Seattle fan. I see and hear about the Angels constancy and do think they will have a bounce back year. They are hampered by some huge contracts they already regret (as we will soon, Cano) but they are making some good moves. Wish we grabbed Maybin!
The problem isn’t promoting or even trading away farm system talent. You have to constantly rebuild your minors so that depth is always available. You do that by not always signing guys that cost you draft picks and using your financial resources to keep the flow of talent incoming. That’s where the Angels went wrong.
Angels wrecked that organization for Pujols, Wilson, and Hamilton….ended up with nothing to show for it. Used to be a great system….they had a relationship with Cedar Rapids that lasted nearly 25 years….and finally CR had enough and wouldn’t negotiate a new player development deal. Their lack of talent was even causing the minor league attendance to plummet. One season they basically didnt have a pick until the 3rd round…taking relievers with their first pick in the draft. Dipoto and Servais ended up leaving because Scioscia has his hands in everything….they live and die with his hand.
Scioscia does have his hand in everything and I cannot stand it. I don’t know why Angels fans love the guy so much. And I’m tired of hearing people claim how well he manages the clubhouse. Am I the only one that remembers benching José guillen in the first round of the playoffs because they got in a fight, possibly costing us the series?
As a season seat holder, I can go on and on with everything I think about this but I it’s besides the point of this article and comment.
I’m not looking that this move by dipoto in isolation. He has a track record of making 3 for 1 trades, and that’s fine with a win now mentality. Sure he hasn’t screwed their system yet and there is no reason to assume he will, but if I were a die hard M’s fan I would be a bit weary of the direction these moves are heading. In short, he isn’t done making moves, and you can bet a lot he will make trades at the deadline if they are in the hunt that may seriously illustrate my point.
Sure, DiPoto might make some deadline deals…but he does have a window to work with….and I really think he’s into the details….the Dyson trade was very smooth.
Scioscia might have solid repoir with his players…but he’s shown little respect for the front office. I think he and Moreno run the team basically. Any team that has that market, Mike Teout, and disposable income and blows it and starts routinely competing for the division basement needs change badly. Been a LONG time since the 2002 Series.
WeAs was said above, JeDi added Dyson, Gallardo, and Segura without sacrificing a single prospect. A former WS Champ and two former All Stars and they didn’t have to surrender Lewis or O’Neil. If I were an M’s fan I’d be pretty ducking happy with that.
He basically did what the slegnA needed to do because, well, yeah that farm of there’s is definitely something.
The M’s are in win now mode basically.
I don’t get this one for the Mariners… Controllable young pitching is far more valuable than an aging rental OF. Baffled by the moves today.
I’d hardly call Karns young… He doesn’t have a ton of major league experience, but he is 29…
Im with you….Karns could end up being Wade Davis 2.0 in KC….but he’s 29…and those 4 years of control come in his early 30s. There’s more important things than JUST control….mediocre talent at cost is fairly replaceable. M’s can spin another back end starter from the system over that time
You seriously know nothing about baseball if you think any pitcher in baseball can become the next wade davis. You know why every team doesn’t have there own Wade Davis? It’s because converting a starter that can throw hard into a reliever doesn’t automatically result in an elite closer.
I have experience in professional baseball scouting actually…. I wasn’t saying that Karns would become the next Wade Davis, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see KC turn him into a reliever. That organization has a skill at taking guys like Hochevar and Davis and turning them into solid relievers….they also have an eye for relievers as well…they plucked Soria as a Rule 5 out of Mexico. You took my short comment way too far….Im only saying Karns might fit their process.
I’m not just asking Red Line 9, but other than those two, constantly flung in our face examples of Davis and Hochevar, what other converted starters have done well in the KC pen? The Royals may have just gotten lucky after both those players were complete disasters in the rotation. If they had a “way” of being successful at it, I’m of the belief they wouldn’t have wasted the majority of Hochevar’s six years in the rotation, before banishing him to the pen.
Do you know the definition of “could”?
You’re acting like Red_Line_9 said he WILL become the next Wade Davis. COULD means there’s a possibility, and there absolutely is, however slim it may be.
It wasn’t the Royals who converted Davis to the pen. His last season with the Rays, he spent the entire season in the BP and threw 70 innings with a 2.43 ERA and 2.78 FIP. That season was his first ever relief appearance as a professional.
How can someone be a “Rule 5 out of Mexico?” Isn’t the Rule 5 draft where you pick players from other MLB’s minor league systems rather than out of other countries?
Stymeedone—When Dayton Moore took over they ended up having a horrible time converting their starters in their system to quality mlb arms…guys like Mike Montgomery. Quite a few were expected to be rotation pieces and failed…shoot, John Lamb is still out there. But there was also a design in. The very first thing the Royals realized is to develop their pen in house….it kept them from spending the money on relievers. They drafted high end pitchers with a couple of above avg pitches….Hochevar fits that bill. He could go 3 innings and be lights out, but get rocked in the 4th once they’d seen him. They refused to convert him sooner because he was a #1 and they had bonus money in him. As far as mlb converts? Soria started before the Rule 5 I believe….but it really was a part of their minor league system goal.
CXCX- Soria was a Rule 5 out of the SD system off the AAA Portland roster, so yes he was a part of an mlb org…but he’d been under the radar playing for the Mexico City Reds until halfway though the 2006 season….my comment was more in reference to that and also that he’s Mexican….best nickname this side of Oil Can Boyd….the Mexicutioner
@ChaseHayes- Controllable young pitching is valuable when you have a stud pitcher on an upward trajectory. Karns may never get any better than a middle reliever or spot starter. A very frustrating pitcher to watch. Seemed to implode after tossing 80-90 pitches. Very similar to Taijuan Walker too in that an umpires missed call, a bloop hit or a HR would rattle him very easily. I won’t miss Karns
Burns will take over Dysons role and Karns can function like Chris Young did in the past
Chris Young is already signed for next year by the Royals.
I don’t think the Royals have to worry at all about having too many starting pitchers. Like most teams they are probably going to need 7 guys they can count on over the course of the year.
The most likely roster change this move makes is keeping Straham in the bullpen at the start of the year if he breaks camp on the 25-man roster.
Nice addition Mariners.
I’m thinking the Mariners are the leading candidate for the team that “won the offseason” this year. Which means they will largely underperform, will be out of the race at the deadline, will stubbornly hold onto their pending free agents at the deadline and will still miss the playoffs just like the Diamondbacks last year and the Padres the year before that.
If they miss the playoffs it’ll be because Texas and Houston will have better teams. I still think they need a sp….but I’d project them within that wild card range….so it really means it depends on how the other divisions perform.
Jarrod Dyson gets rave reviews in the OF but not at Catcher
Bang, there you go. Mariners sitting pretty after a couple moves. Gallardo is better than Karns (or at least has been better) and Dyson is miles better than Smith. Win-win.
Meanwhile, Orioles now hoping they can get a daed cat bounce from Ubaldo, or else find a SP on the scrap heap. And they still need an OF who can hit lefties.
I feel like Dipoto gets so excited about these little deals that he doesn’t actually make the moves needed to build a team into a contender.
I think judgement on DiPoto needs to be reserved until we see if he can develop a system…because if that happens these little moves are winning moves.
Karns isn’t a flashy move, but he is a nice get for one season of Dyson. I still think the Royals are about to bomb out as an organization though. I feel the OF they should be trying to trade is Cain. He could bring them back a couple of legitimate prospects and then they could have slid Dyson over to CF for this season and possibly another one or two if they could have resigned him. They should also be looking to move Hosmer. He has enough name recognition and traditional stats that you should be able to get a quality prospect in return.
Dipoto loves making trades, doesn’t he? Really don’t see what his plan is, other than to make trades upon trades upon trades.
get a speedier team to offset the field they play at.
But are his trades drawing rave reviews?
This deal fits the mold of what DiPoto wanted to do when he was hired last year. Obviously, Dyson is much more athletic in the outfield than Smith is. And DiPoto even commented that the M’s rotation is flyball centric and that having a defensive minded, athletic outfield is the best way to offset that. Defensively, it was scary seeing Aoki and Smith sharing the outfield last year. A combination of Haniger, Martin and Dyson (platooning anyway) should help in the run prevention department.
Dyson is 32? No idea why, but I thought this guy was like 26. Learn something new everyday, I guess.
After watching an outfield of Anoki, Martin and Smith last year, I’m sure Mariner fans will love watching, Gamel/Haniger, Martin and Dyson this year.. They could use another starter and since Dipoto would rather trade than buy. I would watch for another trade.
Royals doing a nice job of addressing needs in such a way they still have a shot to win it all with core players intact for 2017. With 2 AL central teams in full rebuild mode there’s no need for a fire sale……yet.
Oh cool the site has a like/dislike button again just noticed lol
Karns isn’t as bad as you all seem to think, if you take away his random 7 terrible relief outings, he had a 4.56 ERA last year, which isn’t good, but I’d like to see where is FIP is for those starts as well. Is it a gamble? Yeah, he could imploded and never be good, but for 1 year of a platoon CF with below average offensive numbers, I’d rather have the 29 year old starter with some upside if I’m rebuilding, and I honestly doubt anyone would have paid more than this for him
While many on here lament the “if you take away x bad performances” comments a little excessively, I gotta say suggesting taking away 7 bad performances to leave the guy with a 4.50 ERA as a way of defending his season is pretty ridiculous…
seattle’s starting staff is so questionable that they feel adding Yovani Gallardo is a positive move, then you turn around and trade Karns to get Dyson. You could have signed Ben Revere and kept Karns and had some depth/options for your rotation.
Dyson is good at defense, Revere is not. Dyson is also safer to be a good enough hitter.
Seems like the Royals sold low here. I think if they had waited until July they could’ve gotten a better return. Dyson could be a very useful piece to a contender. Karns feels like a long-relief/swing man to me.
What Mariners fans can take from this is that they just brought in a player that Kansas City fans loved, and hate to see depart. That should speak volumes for those who in recent years watched Rickie Weeks and Dustin Ackley skate around the OF. What Dyson does he does extremely well. This is how decent teams are built….by not being horrible anywhere.
I think the Royals did well here, considering team control. Personally I’d rather have Smith and Karns than what the M’s got in return.
With Dyson’s superior range and above agerage arm I wonder if they prefer to move Martin to RF where his premium skill, throwing arm strength might fit better and offer a small optimization. Both should play almost everyday if their healthy and I believe the other starting corner OF spot is Haniger’s to lose. I could see the 4th OF being sort of a formality, not even getting the small side of a platoon’s worth of playing time, but that’s a rather upside bound outlook.
Why not? Cain moved to RF to get Dyson into CF.
The Dipoto bashers, please join me in looking at his total performance from day 1 to today on the Mariners roster.
Starting rotation : I call it a wash but perhaps a slight downgrade for now
Bullpen : Light years better, from bottom 5 to top 10
Defense : From horrid to pretty damn good, likely top 10
Offensive power : somewhat better
Speed / baserunning : Light years better, from bottom 5 to top 5.
1-15 farm system / prospect depth.quality ; Big improvement. From maybe 28th t0 15-20 range.
Payroll is up somewhat , but not leaps and bounds, maybe 20% higher.
I’ll take it.
I’d love to see him get really real about this 1-2 year window and trade O’Neill Gohara ++ for Cutch, some smaller package for CarGo or JD Martinez if that falls thru.
But i have a feeling that Jerry is mostly done and will maybe add a 2-5 mil 1 year 4/5/6 starter swingman option. Dillon Gee or Travis Wood maybe. But the ammo and willingness to add will still be there if they need a starter or a corner OF or 1b masher to top it off at the deadline. Also think there are enough expiring assets to beef up the system at the deadline if it all goes to poop. Keep it up Jerry. Go M;s
Defense and Speed upgrade
Smith for Dyson
Pitching
Karns for Gallardo
Safeco is spacious.
Seattle needs better defense in the outfield and cans sacrifice power for speed.
These moves help the whole team get a little better. Gallardo should be better being a fly ball prone pitcher with a large outfield a great defense.
The Central is barely a 2 team race, anymore. How far back do the Tigers need to get before they’re selling off pieces, too?
The Tigers had a lot of injuries last year. Just by being healthy, the gap is closing. If they add a CF of substance, it should be a fun race. I doubt they can replicate their poor record vs the Indians. That alone was the difference between 1st and 2nd last year.
Once again John Mozeliak proves he is a below-mediocre general manager, Cardinals have No speed and of course ol Mo would wqy .. ‘we dont have qny room for him 😉 mo must go!
I don’t know enough about Karns to say if it was a good trade, or not. But KC got an overall nice return on their 50th draft round investment. Kudos to Royals’ scouting and development.
A move the Royals had to make, trading 1 more year until FA for 4 with a decent starter or a good bullpen arm. I’m just wondering what’s next, more pieces move or do they try and add a DH and try to win this year. For the record Dyson’s role on the 1st pennant winning team could easily be replaced by burns or Orlando, last year was a breakout for Dyson that he’ll be hard pressed to replicate.