The Giants have won eight of their past 10 games and are suddenly within three games of an NL Wild Card spot, but ESPN’s Jeff Passan writes in his latest 10 Degrees column that the team still plans to operate as a seller. The only real uncertainty surrounding team legend Madison Bumgarner, per the report, is where he’ll land.
“San Francisco’s recent success isn’t throwing a wrench in the team’s trade-Bumgarner-and-all-the-relievers plan,” writes Passan. The Giants, of course, have multiple intriguing bullpen pieces to market beyond Bumgarner. Will Smith is the top rental reliever available, while Sam Dyson is intriguing as a player who is both performing well and controlled through 2020. Southpaw Tony Watson should also draw interest, although as MLBTR detailed earlier this season, his contract isn’t nearly as affordable as some might think due to the large number of incentives he’s reached. He’s already at $8.5MM, and if Watson pitches in 14 more games this year, his salary will check in at a hefty $10.5MM.
Interestingly, at just about the same time Passan’s report hit the wire, Giants president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi was presenting a less declarative stance — at least with the public. In an appearance on KNBR radio this morning (link via Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area), Zaidi suggested that he doesn’t take opportunities at the postseason for granted. “Every pennant race and every opportunity you have to get to the playoffs has a ton of value,” said Zaidi. “It has a ton of value to the fans and the organization, and we don’t take that lightly.”
Obviously, it behooves any baseball operations head to take such a tone when his club is even on the periphery of contending. The “never say never” adage probably applies to the current iteration of the Giants. For instance, it’s difficult to imagine them selling in an extreme scenario where they rattle off another 10 or 11 consecutive victories to surge past the .500 mark and into Wild Card position.
However, the outlook for a playoff berth still isn’t favorable. The Giants need to overtake five teams and then hold that ground. Even then, they’d be faced with a one-game playoff against a second Wild Card winner that is likely not quite as patched together as the San Francisco club. There’d be no guarantee of aligning their rotation so that Bumgarner could start a theoretical Wild Card game, either, as the Giants would merely need to focus on winning every game in a tightly contested race.
While it’s conceptually possible for the Giants to hold onto Bumgarner but still trade other pieces, that scenario feels like a stretch. It’s true that Bumgarner would be a lock to turn down a qualifying offer, thus assuring the Giants of at least a compensatory draft pick. That’s less true of Smith, though, and not even in the realm of possibility for Watson. Keeping Bumgarner but trading Smith and Watson wouldn’t be a wholehearted pursuit of a postseason bid, and keeping all their chips only to collapse in August represents a worst-case scenario — a massive missed opportunity to bolster an ailing farm system.
An August collapse is hardly out of the question either. Red-hot Alex Dickerson is riding a .455 BABIP since joining the Giants — a pace he cannot possibly sustain. In fact, over their current 10-3 stretch, the Giants have seven regulars whose average on balls in play is north of .350 — and that doesn’t even count Evan Longoria, who erupted for six home runs in 11 games after previously hitting seven in 72 contests before landing on the injured list.
It seems clear that the Giants have a better roster now than in April, when they were cycling through the likes of Connor Joe, Michael Reed, Mac Williamson and others in the outfield and receiving career-worst levels of performance from veterans Gerardo Parra and Yangervis Solarte. At the same time, the Giants would probably need another 39 wins to have a puncher’s chance at the second NL Wild Card spot, as that’d give them the same 85-win total with which the Twins sneaked into a one-game showdown in 2017. Reaching that level would mean a .582 winning percentage from here on out — a pace that only the Yankees, Twins, Astros, Dodgers and Braves have managed thus far.
The Giants would need this iteration of the club to play like a top-six team in all of baseball for a total period of three months in order to make a playoff run seem plausible, and it’s not only possible but likely that they’d need even more than that hypothetical total of 85 victories to actually land in the Wild Card game. Viewed through that lens, it’s not hard to see why the team isn’t rushing to change course after a two-week hot streak against mostly mediocre teams — even if it’s a bitter pill for fans to swallow. Zaidi’s comments do leave the door cracked in the case of another two weeks of .600-or-better play, and probably signify that deals won’t come early, but they surely do not signify a committed change to the club’s sell-side trajectory.
Always nice to come out of the All-Star Break playing vs Milwaukee.
4 game road sweep in Colorado
I wonder at what point the talking heads will recognize, not that the Giants are a lock for anything, but that they have improved considerably over a team that was 11 games under .500. The heads just can’t get their talking heads around the fact the Giants have improved and some changes and additions have occurred that have facilitated the improvement?
That’s what’s best long-term for this team. They aren’t built to go deep in the playoffs if they were to make it. They need to do a Yankee type refresh when they traded their assets like Miller, Chapman, and Beltran.
Lol why do people try and compare their rebuild to the yankees when the only reason the Yankees were able to get those returns is because of the market. The teams involved hadn’t won a World Series in over 170 years combined and they happened to have to the best two closers on in baseball, not just the market. the returns will not be close u too a similar circumstance presents itself
Also the Yankees “rebuild” wasn’t a typical rebuild. They literally hit on every single prospect and every free agent bargain to the point that it seemed ridiculous. Judge, Gleyber, Severino, Sanchez, Frazier all succeeded. They took flyers on Hicks, Voit, Didi and they turned into offensive maniacs after never being them before.
Never before had a team gotten so lucky. Good on them, but it’s unfortunate that it had to be the Yankees, because if any fan based needed to be humbled, it’s theirs.
Yanks fans were humble… before the early 1920s, since then the Yanks have averaged one WS trophy every 3.5 years, pretty crazy!
Yankee-fan math at its finest lol
They didn’t hit on every one, far from it actually. And they had no “hits” whatsoever from the farm system for the fifteen years prior except for Cano, Gardner and Robertson. Thats it. That includes the pieces they traded away to try and get better. Maybe the best they traded away was who…Mark Melancon?!
So, yeah, the front office changed their operating procedure and they got better results, but not “hitting on everything,” as whiny Yankee-haters will claim. If there’s anyone that needs to be humbled, it’s generally people who spit jaded opinions and try to construe them as facts.
Also, someone needs a refresher course on the definition of the word “literal.”
GB85 -95 years since 1923 divided by 27 world series equals what then? Ya, that’s right it’s 3.5, genius.
What about this century?
You really can’t compare the era before free-agency, with now. The financial advantage was much greater then. Basically every guy was a free agent. There were 2 factors in accumulating talent; finding it, and signing it. With the money the Yankees had they could afford a larger scouting core. And once talent was identified they had the money to out-bid other teams.
The only time a truly level field existed was in the 7 years after the implementation of the draft, with retention of the reserve clause. The reserve clause kept it equal between teams but was unfair to players.
That ended with Andy Messerschmidt. and the current system was installed. No one can say the current system is entirely fair, but it is much more fair than the system before the draft.
And that;s why the Yankees don’t win WS titles at the same pace as they did pre-draft.
Well Cuso, perhaps the Yankees front office felt they needed to REALLY make players feel wanted. “Hey, we would like you to play for us. And we think you’re kinda cute”.
I don’t see why it’s not similar. Granted Smith isn’t historically as good as either Miller or Chapman but he’s having a very good year and is one of the top coveted relievers right now. And while Bumgarner isn’t the ace he was, his postseason record is undeniable and he’s one of the top starters available.
I’m not saying the Giants have to get the same type haul but they certainly can restock their farm by dealing those two assets to the contenders by making similar wholesale changes.
What does it mean when you say they aren’t built to go deep in the playoffs?
Well, for one thing they aren’t so much “built” as “slapped together out of whatever spare parts we could scrounge to fix up the old jalopy”.
There is zero depth beyond guys who already accepted being sent down to AAA because they couldn’t cut it on the early-season team. And any “spare parts” acquired past the next two weeks aren’t eligible for post-season play.
If the Giants were to make the playoffs, their biggest weakness is their starting pitching.
If they were to make the playoffs that means their offense has stayed hot and guys are back to their career averages or better, however in the playoffs we all know pitching wins and Starting pitching would without a doubt be a question mark, that said they have a great bullpen if they make a run and don’t trade anyone.
If you are relying on AA in a playoff run, you are not in a playoff run. A level players are showing quite a bit of promise…Why can’t the Giants go deep in the playoffs?
The nice thing about analytics is that they can tell me whether my team’s season has a point or not about a third of the way soon. Gives me more time to focus on quarterly growth for my company and its share holders. The world is cool.
Astros should make a play for Bumgarner. They made Verlander great again.
Yes seriously I did not know Verlander would continue this dominance. He’s been amazing with the Astros.
MadBum to a contender returns to San Francisco this winter.
Jeff Samardzija to yankees.
Will Smith to the cubs for 2 minor league players unranked and a ptbnl or cash.
MadBum to the AL where he can help a team beat the Dodgers again.
They have beat Bumgarner 3 times this year and can handle him fine
When he’s backed by that Giants offense, put him on the Yanks and it’s a whole different ball game!
No one should have to tell you something so obvious..nobody wants Samardzija!!!
If they don’t get a good starter before then. They’ll take him. Diesnt matter giants gave him a no trade clause. the giants have regretted that deal since he put the ink to the paper
Obvious troll. Wil Smith will net at least one top 15 prospect of any team, and at least another top 30 prospect. They’ll be AAA players too, someone that can help in near future.
Troll? No I’m not a troll. Just logic. 3 unranked prospects is plenty for a rental. Getting any top 16 prospect is not worth it for him.
As always, the final outcome is whatever the market will allow, and Smith ain’t going anywhere less than a top 50 and a controllable 2nd tier depth piece, probably outfield.
I have time imagining any scenario where Smith returns a top 50 prospect. Look at Jeurys Familia at last years trade deadline. Familia’s numbers at this time last year are very similar to Smith this year and the return for Familia was international slot money and a FV 45 and FV 40 prospects. I think a FV50 and FV 45 is a reasonable return for Smith. That would be more like an org ranking of 6-10 and 15-25 from an average system. That is still a decent return and one the Giants should be looking to make.
No they weren’t. Familias numbers when he got traded are far less than what smith has done so far
Ask the Dodgers what not losing a third straight WS is worth ?
Did you actually look at their numbers?
Familia:
2018 pre trade: 41 IP, 2.88 ERA, 2.55 FIP, 1.1 rWAR
2016-2017: 102 IP, 2.99 ERA, 2.68 FIP, 1.7 rWAR
Smith:
2019: 39 IP, 2.75 ERA, 2.70 FIP, 1.1 rWAR
16-18: 93 IP, 2.89, 2.53 FIP, 1.1 rWAR
Even their salaries aren’t drastically different with Smith having around $1.5 million remaining and Familia had around $2.25 mm left.
Familias k/9 was 9.3. Smith’s is 12. Smith just had a bad outing in Colorado which ballooned his ERA, before that blowup he had a 1.97.
Familia’s ERA+ at the time of the trade was 130. Smith’s ERA+ is 156.
@Gobby: Familia’s ERA was 2.88 and Smith’s is 2.75. That’s similar.
So you think Smith is going to return a top 50 prospect? If you think a good rental RP is worth a top 50 prospect, what do you think the return would be for Yates if SD sells? He has been vastly superior to Smith and has 1.5 years remaining. Should the Padres be expecting 2 top 25 prospects, plus more for Yates?
The Giants beat on Yates like a drum last series and his era was over 5 (don’t know what it is now?). And how do you get “vastly superior” to a guy that was 23-23 saves until blowing 1 in the Rockies launching pad stadium?
Isn’t Smith eligible for a qualifying offer? The Giants have to net a top 100 prospect to make it remotely worth it. Closing lefties with his stuff don’t grow on trees.
I love how people seem to forget a number of other “rentals” that brought back big hauls. We can start with Chapman for the yanks.
You just brought up another similarity between Smith and Familia. Last season on 6/27, Familia had a terrible outing where he gave up 4 runs.. If you remove that one outing, Familia’s ERA was 1.99 before his trade last season. That is very similar to what you say happened to Smith and his ERA.
Now I have to assume you’re either a troll or a very uninformed fanboy. The Giants have scored 0 runs against Yates in 14.1 innings over the past 2 seasons and his current ERA is 1.10 with a 1.28 FIP. Using your choice of stats, Yates continues to be superior by converting 31 of 33 save opportunities, which is better than the 24 of 26 for Smith.
Why would he get QO?
I’ll give you Wil Myers for the Shark, straight up! I have more use for a over paid, past his prime starting pitcher than I do an overpaid outfielder/first base/third baseman that’s sitting on my bench
You don’t want shark at all. You could get him for a few autographs by Machado and tatis jr and an autograph to be named later. He’s hardly an emergency spot starter now. He wouldn’t even be a swing man for San Diego
Your anti-Giant agenda has obviously overridden any small amount of baseball knowledge you may have somehow accidentally acquired.
This may be one of the directions that the Giants go. Zaidi alluded to this in an interview today. The Giants could trade Bum and Smith, swap a bad contract like the one suggested above, and swap surplus parts (bullpen for 2B, OF) rather than do a full scale sell off. This puts them in a better spot going forward and allows them to ride this hot streak this season.
I swap Wil Myers for any bad contract you got minus Belt or Longoria. Shark, Cueto, Crawford (would have to move him to 2nd base), or even Posey.
You should probably check his stats. He’d slate in right behind Padduck and has been on par with Lucchesi this year. But don’t let facts ruin your cool story.
“You don’t want shark at all…He’s hardly an emergency spot starter now.”
Wow, maybe you should actually look at some stats, or read something to get you more up to date on the current situation. That may have been true last season when he was injured, but this season Samardzija ranks 7% above MLB average. He’s been even better lately. Any Padre’s fan would know that in his last start against them he went 8 innings giving up only 2 ERs. And that’s consistent over his last 3 starts.
What are you talking about. Know plenty about baseball. No one wants that terrible contract of Jeff Samardzija. It’s one of the worse contracts in baseball. And yes the giants regret everyone bit of it.
If they were smart they wouldn’t have overpaid him by 60 mil dollars
“It’s one of the worse contracts in baseball.”
That’s funny. Exaggerate much?
There’s only the rest of this season and next on his contract, and like Greinke’s contract it becomes more palatable. And like Greinke he is giving positive results.. Yes he’s still over-paid, but a team like the Yankees would love to have him instead of Happ. The Braves could use him. He’s better than several of their SPs. He doesn’t make sense for teams like the Angels or Padres since they aren’t in contention. The BoSox would love him, but can’t afford the hit to the CBT.
There are several teams that could use him, but he probably won’t be moved. Not that he has no value, but for what the Giants would need to do, and get in return, it’s probably not worth it. And they don’t need to move him because they can afford him. But he is still a useful piece
I love how the fans of a team that thought other teams would want Ellsbury, turn up their noses at a guy that would be a clear improvement, by far, over Happ.
Gotta love when someone assumes either of those things.
Why do they need happ? they have Slater, Shaw, Duggar, Dickerson an Yaz and so on and so on
J.A., not Ian
Ahhhh I gotcha. Lol
Jeff Samardzija 7-7 with a 3.95 ERA. ERA+ 107
Matthew Boyd 6-7 with a 3.95 ERA ERA+ 120
Shut up.
If you don’t watch the games, don’t bother commenting.
The F did ERA+ become some kind of SUperstat to Giants fans? It’s a park adjusted ERA measure. Has nothing to do with whether the quality of contact the guy gave up was deserving of the ERA in the first place. Nothing to do w how lucky the pitcher could’ve been or anything.
I propose to deal ElMago and significant cash considerations to the Yahoo Baseball boards.
Why in the hell would they trade the best closer in baseball for two unranked prospects. That sounds like something Sabean/Evans would’ve done. If Zaidi isn’t smarter than that then I’ll apply for the GM job.
Evans traded for Will Smith. D’oh
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. I’ll give you that one though. Overall I think most would agree the majority of Evans’ moves were not well scouted and pretty bad.
Evans has been better than Zaidi so far.
Zaidi up to now has done nothing but try and make this team bad, so he can sell of pieces guilt free.
We are a good team, and we are right in the hunt.
Evans cost the Giants Brian Ryenolds, Kyle Crick, Jason Bahr, and to a lesser extent Christian Arroyo basically for nothing with the exception of Longoria who as much as I like the guy he isn’t the player he was 3 years ago.
What franchise players did Bobby Evans give up to acquire Will Smith and Sam Dyson which you think return a Franchise player.
Oh my God. Jason Bahr. A 24 year old single A pitcher is the reason the Giants won’t reach the playoffs for the next decade. So if the Giants had kept Jason Bahr, they could acquire a power hitting right fielder, a lead off hitter, and great second baseman…A single A player could do that.
So VTGiant, please tell us how a squirrel would have acquired Matos, Canario, Luciano, Bart, Ramos.
I’ve had a feeling Shark might head to the Angels for a while now. His ERA+ of 107 would be a welcome addition here and his prospect cost should be minimal.
His prospect cost will be non-existent if you absorb most of his salary. I still think the Giants eat about half to facilitate a deal.
Non-existent if the Angels take the entire salary, but If they eat as much as half they’ll want something interesting in return. They aren’t sending that much money just to get him off the roster. Money isn’t an issue for SF, and he’s still a useful piece.
Yeah, I said if they most of the money the return would be non-existent. if the Halos absorbed say 14-.15 million bucks of the 22 owed to Samardzija you arent getting anything back. He’s generously a 10 million dollar pitcher on a one year deal. He isn’t any better than Cashner who was owed a hell of a lot less.
Cashner is about as atypical as you can get, so he’s not a good comparable for anyone. He had a 121 ERA+ for the O’s when traded. How many $10M pitchers will give you that?.
Calhoun, Hermosillo and Noe Ramirez for Shark? The Giants get a 24 outfield prospect. They get a gold glove caliber outfielder who is putting up better numbers than he did last season. And get an arm for the bullpen. The Angels get an innings eating starter, which the desperately need.
Cashner isn’t a good comp for Shark? Cmon.
He signed that 10MM annual deal coming off a year where he put up a 142 ERA+ since that seems to be your thing as well. Im not sure what you’re really even arguing about here. No team would give Shark or Cashner more than 10 mil per at this stage of their careers. Most likely less.
Yeah, I agree if Samardzija were a FA $10M would be what he could expect. But I also don’t think there are a lot of Casher types with his salary out there, that are available. But those are hypotheticals.
Admittedly this discussion sort of went sideways. My point was that Samardzija is still useful despite being overpaid. And for a trade to make sense, it has to make sense for both sides. The Giants can easily afford what Shark is owed, and he’s useful in the rotation. Why would the Giants do something that did nothing more than got him off the roster? Or moved him for a minimal return? They don’t have/need to trade the guy.
The return would be nowhere near there. If the Angels took on 75% of his salary, we could return a non-top 30 prospect and be fine.
Maybe they try to take on less salary they trade Heramasillo. KC has no value to them and Noe is actually more than needs to be given up here.
Will Smith for nobody? Why trade him?
Because if your team is not going anywhere, or at least you think that way, and you don’t think he’ll be as good in the next two years as he is this year, you can trade him for two guys that could be as good in the next two years. It’s what the trading deadline is all about. Trade a guy now, who’s pretty good now, while you still can.
The Giants have been playing over .500 ball the past 1.5 months. They have 2.5 months to make up 3 games. Teams have comeback from further down. The Giants don’t need more career minor leaguers.
2 unranked minor leaguers… you’re a joke
they tried to trade samardzija 2 years ago but he told the FO he didn’t want to waive his full no trade clause
Samardzija would probably have an ERA near 6 in New York,
Zaidi is a smart man. As is Tony Watson’s agent. Great deal for him. He had to take a gamble on his health but that worked out very nicely.
Sell high. Will Smith is as high as he will ever be. Bumgarner is at post dirt bike peak.
Yes, the Giants are playing better, but the entire rest of their division is still ahead of them.
Technically right now they are in 3rd, half a game up on the padres and ahead of Rockies on h2h tiebreaker. But yes it still is a big mountain to keep climbing
You might wanna check the standings again. The Giants are tied for 3rd with Colorado and ahead of San Diego…whether it stays that way who knows? I wouldn’t trade Bum not when you got a shot and the best you can do it rental prospects. Worse comes to worse you get a comp pick. Best scenario he re-signs. Smith though I like him…SELL HIGH!
Exactly, and virtually all the teams ahead of them, except maybe St. Louis are playing like crap. The Giants are 18-11 since June 1st which translates to .611, btw.
Further, why would Zaidi share anything of import with Geezer Passan?
Passan seems to have picked and chosen parts of what was said because this is not really in line with whst he said on the radio today.
Rest of the division, except Dodger$ are headed in the other direction.
While I agree in principle, the entire division is not ahead of them. They are currently tied with the Rockies for 3rd in that division.
Oops, yes, they have climbed in the standings.
7 games left vs Padres
6 games left vs dbacks
6 games vs Rockies (excluding right now)
6 games vs Dodgers
Only soft spots on the schedule are the Marlins and Mets.
Phillies (6 games!), Cubs, A’s, pirates, braves, Cardinals, Red Sox all (arguably)?contenders.
So far the Giants are:
7-5 against SD
6-7 against AZ
8-4 against COL
and 5-7 against LAD
The upcoming schedule against the division is hardly that intimidating.
Also, based on how they’ve played, the upcoming games against the Phils, Pirates, or BoSox are not intimidating either And they’re already 2-1 against the Cards.
They’ll have their hands full with the A’s, and Cubs. The Braves will be as well, but they have only 3 games left, and they sit at 1-2 against them.
It’s hardly the murderous schedule remaining you paint it to be.
we are 2.5 games out of the wildcard and in 3rd in the division. You have the internet at your fingertips. Use it.
Love my Giants but they need to sell and get as much as they can to rebuild the farm system that has been a laughingstock for years. Look at the big picture people, not the teeny shot we have at making it to the wildcard.
Not saying you’re wrong about the trades, but the lower minors are hardly a laughing stock, AAA definitely is dry, Shaw is one of the only players still at AAA that may still have a shot at the majors.
The lower minor league system is filled with talent that hopefully in the next 2 to 3 years (depending on who you’re talking about) will be helping the big league team.
I disagree, Sacramento are top of their division with a positive record, their top 6-7 hitters all above .300 they have some depth. I’m all for trading some assets but for the right return, not just because
I just like seeing the Padres in the cellar, even if it is briefly lived…
As much as they have done, they are still awful.
And we’ll definitely get used to seeing the Giants at the bottom of the cellar
Yo, AJ, which is more elusive … a sasquatch, the Loch Ness Monster, or a Padres World Series ring ?
A unicorn
A troll.
“the bottom of the cellar”…is that like the basement at the Alamo?
“I’m a fly in the ointment, Hans. A monkey in the wrench”
—John McLean, “Die Hard”
The Padres were more competitive in the PCL then the NL.
The Giants would be stupid not to start rebuilding for next year and the future. A one shot wild card game, and the season over is nothing in terms of value a team can get to rebuild for a longer run. I guess you can use the Yankees as an example.
You realize the Giants won 2 of their World Series as a wild card right? Cueto and Bum could be a good one-two punch. Definitely sell the relievers though.
They won the division in 2010 and 2012. 2014 was the only one they were a WC team
Why the Yankees?
Stop talkin bout & be about it !!!!!!!!
Get MadBum to Atlanta !!!!!!!!!
The tear down is the trendy thing to do. I wouldn’t trade the best prospects but I say go far it. 3 games out of the Wild Card and a lot of teams without pitching. Anything can happen in the playoffs. The Giants were always the underdog in the playoffs. Bumgarner and the Relievers have trade value, but the old players with big contracts have no trade value.
11 wins in their last 13 games, not 10, and a .615 winning percentage since June 1, a full quarter of the season. Don’t sell.
As Zaidi said earlier today, buy and sell intelligently to play for this year and plan for the future.
Exactly. This is a team with TONS of revenue, and they control most of it. They face a big danger by totally tanking and becoming completely irrelevant for a 3-5 year “tank”.
All dollars aren’t created equally. If the Royals lose 400K in attendance, it hurts a little bit, making it almost palatable, since it comes with a built-in payroll savings. If the Giants’ fanbase starts to dwindle, they’re committing suicide, throwing not only the baby out with the bathwater, but the tub with it.
Sell a little, buy a little. Try to be at least competitive as you rebuild the structure. They can afford the few extra sheckles in payroll cost if it gives them at least a smell of the playoffs.
Giants went 14-13 in June. That doesn’t scream “go for it”, but if this hot streak continues up until the deadline, all bets are off.
Braves need to trade their overrated pitching prospects before they lose all their value.
They have to be .500 by the end of Sunday to contemplate buying in. Even then, still no guarantee.
Why the deadline of Sunday?
Sunday will be the 21st. At .500 with 10 days left and most likely itching closer to the 5th spot they open that door to Change their mind.
They won today so they are now 2 games below with a 4-game set with the Mets. Then the Cubs.
Sunday is not a “deadline”, but Sunday may come a mind change depending on what goes down against the Mets. A clean sweep puts them 51-49. They’ll start calling teams exploring trades to buy if that happens.
The change over in the roster was going to take 2 off-seasons + a trade deadline. The focus has been on the bottom of the 40 / 25 man and some non -40 man depth. Now comes the 25 man roster work.
The volume of guys who could be moved is quite staggering and with the hard deadline I suspect not all will go.
For sure if healthy (touch wood)
Bumgarner
Smith
Watson
Dyson
Likely
Pomeranz (his cost in $ and prospect + LH) I could see him being adding to one of the RP above in a deal
Sandoval – I think in his case they are going to ask him. I think there’s a market as a guy who can legit play 3rd + come off the bench.
Maybe
Vogt
Moronta (for a big return ONLY)
Samardzija – he’s been on a nice run, seems past the shoulder issues of 2018. This is a thin SP market especially if Wheeler is out. I wonder if Shark doesn’t end up being a part of a “take a bad contract back” kind of deal. His contract and Ellsbury’s don’t line up exactly but if the NYY also sent his option $ and prospects… maybe.
If they’re going to trade Samardzija, who’s been useful, they need to get something useful in return. Maybe the prospects you mentioned, but that would depend on the prospects. But Ellsbury is not useful at all. Why would they want him. Zaidi has put together a fairly decent, youngish OF and, as it is, there aren’t enough ABs for guys like Tyler Austin. Not that he’s special, but I’d rather see him than Ellsbury. They’re better off keeping Samardzija.
Thinking Farhan and the front office’s plan this offseason is going to be one we don’t see too often, which is to both buy and sell. Too add more young talent to the farm system, sell off the likes of Bumgarner,Smith, Watson, Dyson, etc. At the same time, it could make sense to package one of these players with a prospect already in the system, to acquire say a young controllable starter already in the majors. Say a starting pitcher or a young future closer type, being that Moronta doesn’t quite look like he has the control yet to close.
Why would a contending team want to trade a young controllable starter who is already contributing to their big league team? It may make sense from SF’s POV but it certainly doesn’t for the other team.
It actually does make sense if the contending team is trading from an area of strength to add to their pitching staff. The obvious example that comes to mind is Clint Frazier, who the Yankees say they are not willing to trade for a rental. If Giants package a controllable prospect or two with Bumgarner, think it could absolutely make sense for both sides.
It’s an odd numbered year.
Giants might as well sell
everything…..
How much for the stadium? We could put up condos.
Please keep winning. The price of Stroman and Giles just goes up!
All speculation as to what they’ll do. They’re older, weighed down by some expensive, longer term deals. They need to get younger and more athletic. They need to focus on the future. If the right deals present themselves, my guess is Zaidi sells off what he can to get younger and cut some payroll. Need starting pitching, younger middle infield talent, another strong outfield bat that won’t be intimidated at Oracle. Stay the course, make the deals if the return is right. Help is on the way. No more mortgaging the future for the present year. Get younger, get more power, get more athletic, cut some payroll. This can all be done while still being competitive in the here and now. Cueto will be back in August to fill a spot should they trade Bum and Holland has been much better lately out of the pen. Need a SP or two who can bring it and who has multiple years of control.
“Every pennant race and every opportunity you have to get to the playoffs has a ton of value,” said Zaidi. “It has a ton of value to the fans and the organization, and we don’t take that lightly”
No should they. This is the best the team has played in two years. We used to sell out every game, not so much anymore.
“The Giants need to overtake five teams”
The Giants need to overtake three teams, one of which is a division rival they only trail by 1..5 games and will play six more times. One of those teams is the Phillies, who are trending in the wrong direction. Oh, and the Giants play them seven times.
“faced with a one-game playoff against a second Wild Card winner that is likely not quite as patched together” Um, 11 of 12 NL teams are within five games of the WC. So yeah, that team will be just as “patched together” as you put it.
“There’d be no guarantee of aligning their rotation so that Bumgarner could start a theoretical Wild Card game.” And where’s the guarantee for the other team’s ace? We’ll have Johnny Cueto back by then.
“Alex Dickerson is riding a .455 BABIP since joining the Giants.” Have you watched any of these games? He’s crushing the ball. Hit the ball hard, higher chance of getting a hit. It’s not rocket science.
“give them the same 85-win total with which the Twins sneaked into a one-game showdown in 2017.” How is what the Twins did in 2017 at all relevant? Three games over .500 gets you into the playoffs in the NL this year. 11 teams are still in it.
“two-week hot streak against mostly mediocre teams.” The Brewers were in a playoff position before the Giants whooped them. The Rockies were ahead of them before that series. The team is 24-15 since June 1,
The amount of disrespect the team of the decade gets on this site is ridiculous.
Amen
I’d still trade Will Smith though for a starting pitching prospect though. Enough depth to survive that. The farm system is much better, but still lacking pitching
Well, our secret effort to denigrate the Giants for no evident reason has obviously been uncovered.
Secret?
I’m just glad you hate all teams equally so we actually get some meaningful analysis
It would get mighty boring if you fell in love with every .500 team that went on a hot streak, and very confusing as well
I don’t think you have a secret plan to denigrate the Giants. I just find it bizarre that you think the Giants can’t make up 3 games with over 2 months to play. Teams have overcome worse deficits. Why do you think it is impossible for this Giants team to overcome a small deficit.
‘The Giants would need this iteration of the club to play like a top-six team in all of baseball for a total period of three months in order to make a playoff run seem plausible, and it’s not only possible but likely that they’d need even more than that hypothetical total of 85 victories to actually land in the Wild Card game. Viewed through that lens, it’s not hard to see why the team isn’t rushing to change course after a two-week hot streak against mostly mediocre teams — even if it’s a bitter pill for fans to swallow. Zaidi’s comments do leave the door cracked in the case of another two weeks of .600-or-better play, and probably signify that deals won’t come early, but they surely do not signify a committed change to the club’s sell-side trajectory.’
the last paragraph of the article
They have little to nothing in terms of trade bait to substantially improve at the deadline, would need to play way above expectations for 3 months, have multiple other teams play way under expectation, and tack on potentially years to the inevitable rebuild by not cashing in on the value MadBum and their relievers have… all for the chance at a 1-game play-in
If your job security was riding on this decision, would you be nearly as optimistic about all that?
I agree
Love the logic. Love the SFG enthusiasm. Love the team of the decade tag. I like it. Way to bring the passion, Mr Woody Reuter.
Are the other WC contenders really that much better than the Giants? This is why they hired Zaidi, to get guys like Dickerson and Vogt cheap. Slater has always been underutilized. The outfield is actually not bad. And is it really impossible to believe that Posey and Crawford are finally healthy? What other team has the potential to get a solid #2 starter like Cueto back for the stretch. Also, the narrative about the farm system being depleted just isn’t true anymore. Didn’t Baseball Prospectus have 3 Giants prospects in the top 50?
Just as they weren’t that bad in May, they’re not this good in July. What they have now is some stability to their lineup with Dickerson. Silly SD just gave him away when their roster is so RHH and they’re playing solid baseball.
Qualtiy Giants teams show good power on the road, hold their own (~.500) and win at home with pitching and defense. Well this team is 6 game under .500 3.5 months into the season and THAT is not a WC contender. This is all reflective of how much a scrum the NL WC race is.
I applauded the SFG for trying to keep the window open in 2016-17, in retrospect that was
forcing things. They need a reset/retool. There are some obvious trade candidates for the deadline and I am curious who we’ll see when the roster turns over.
Yeah Sure. !!!
They have been playing good baseball for a month an a half. Breaking them up at this point would be such a slap in the face for Giants fans who have stuck with them for several years of absolute garbage. Farhan should grow a pair and make a run in Bochy’s final year. 66 games left 2.5 games back in the wild card and no team in the wild card hunt is as hot as the Giants.
If we trade Smith who’s going to close? It’s the most important spot in the lineup if you ask me. Bum can be resigned if we believe in the team? We keep saying his contract is going to be up well re-sign him! If we make the playoffs we are going to want them on our team rather than facing them on somebody else’s.
Melancon, Dyson, Watson, Moranta could all close
I say its too early to right it off, Bochy is coaching his last season, It would be dumb to not to try and give Bochy 1 last shot even if they don’t make it far which I think what would happen , but you never know really what could happen. The Giants will play as hard as they can for the best coach that has came into that dugout for them and will try to make his last season a memorable one. So I say go for it! But still trade Smith, Sandoval, and Watson.
Bring up Zack green, Sam selman, and shaw
Selmam-1.24era 43inn 19h 12bb 71ks in AAA. That’s sick
With no timeline for Longoria’s return Sandoval is pretty important. Trading him right now wouldn’t be smart. I agree to trade a bullpen guy or two though. Maybe extend Bumgarner. Their rotation is going to be great when Cueto comes back. Odd man out is probably Pomeranz or Anderson depending how they pitch between now and then.
That’s why bring up green. He can play some 3rd and Donovan has been playing well. He can also play 3rd