In another example of the radical measures that Major League Baseball is contemplating as it seeks to play as many games as possible in a truncated 2020 season, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports that one proposal would see the traditional American League and National League scrapped for the 2020 season only — and replaced by the Cactus and Grapefruit Leagues in which the clubs play during Spring Training. The 15 teams with spring facilities in Arizona and the 15 with spring facilities in Florida could each call their spring parks home, playing games in empty parks in realigned divisions.
As with the all-Arizona plan that was reported on earlier this week, a Cactus/Grapefruit arrangement is an intriguing concept but one that is also wrought with potential pitfalls. Securing ample coronavirus testing capabilities is still a challenge on a national scale, and Florida in particular is a problematic area with regard to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.
While the idea of empty parks ostensibly caps the number of people present for a given contest, it may not do so quite to the extent one would initially think. In addition to hosting a pair of rosters that would likely be expanded to 29 or more players, empty-park games would still need to have coaching staffs on hand in addition to umpires, medical/training personnel, camera crews, a production team and security staff for the facility in question (to say nothing of the potential for scouts and other front-office personnel as well).
Securing temporary housing for that many players, too, could be problematic. And as with the all-Arizona plan, the Florida-Arizona plan carries questions about weather conditions — playing primarily in open-air stadiums in the dead of an Arizona or Florida summer is clearly sub-optimal — and prolonged separation of players and their families. The looming issue of how to proceed if (or more likely when) an active player tests positive for the virus remains perhaps the most notable obstacle to address.
All of that said, it’s nevertheless fascinating to think about a season played out under such radical conditions. Nightengale suggests, for instance, that with the AL and NL designations scrapped, a universal DH could be implemented for one season. That’d seemingly put would-be NL clubs that hadn’t prepped for that change at a bit of a disadvantage, although concessions will surely have to be made by many parties if a season is to be played at all.
The potential for divisional realignment creates myriad new rivalry possibilities and shuffles the deck such that we might see some current postseason long shots gifted greater hope at the playoffs. Nightengale runs through one preliminary realignment scenario that would see the “Cactus League Northwest” division comprised of the Brewers, Padres, Rangers, Mariners and Royals. Over in the “Grapefruit League South” division we’d see a hyper-competitive trio of the Braves, Twins and Rays joined by the Red Sox and Orioles. Obviously, that’s merely one hypothetical alignment in a larger-scale hypothetical undertaking that may never even come to pass.
But at this juncture, as MLB joins the rest of us waiting for more robust testing/treatment and the blessing of public health experts and government officials to relax our social distancing measures, there’s no reason for the league not to cast a wide net in dreaming up creative solutions. To the contrary, thinking outside the box is arguably their best course of action right now. This, like the Arizona plan, is likely one of dozens of scenarios that has been or will be discussed by decision-makers as they seek to find a way to restore some sense of normalcy — to whatever extent is possible while maintaining the broader health of the general public.
No, just no.
Would you rather have no baseball? This season (if it happens at all) clearly won’t be under normal circumstances, so I’m open to anything that makes it more likely to happen.
Why are you assuming the only options are no season at all or some radical changes? It is only April 10th.
Besides, if they do something like this, why would they need to realign? Just have the NL play in Florida and the AL play in Arizona or vice versa.
Exactly.
Well considering they have projected not starting till July radical changes were already in the works to salvage the season..
Limited number of games, expanding the season for playoffs in November or December, robo umps. They’ve discussed a lot of changes.
Far as realign. Just stick all 30 teams in one place or realign based on geographic location. Meaning the Padres Dodgers Athletics Angles Giants make up a division. Least amount of travel seems key here.
This is just another new angle they’re trying. So what. You’re not not getting baseball till at least June. At that point changes will have to be made regardless.
It helps if each team has a place to play. Letting the teams play in a facility they already own, or have a contract existing with, eliminates that hassle and provides more time to play the games.
@hiflew: “Why are you assuming the only options are no season at all or some radical changes? It is only April 10th.”
We have already lost two months of baseball (they’re not playing in April and almost certainly not in May). As of now, it will not be back before June unless radical changes are made. We’re still a few weeks away from the projected peak of COVID-19 in the US. Radical changes are the only thing that’s going to get the season started before July.
rtc said: “We’re still a few weeks away from the projected peak of COVID-19 in the US. ”
That is completely false. The most widely circulated model. says that TODAY (4/10) is the projected peak in daily deaths, and tomorrow is the peak of hospital usage:
covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
Be careful which media outlets you’re listening to. This thing is turning, by every measure. Some states will take a little longer to get to zero than others, but we are clearly NOT weeks away from the peak.
We won’t be getting to zero. We may even see it go back up if we don’t continue the social distancing long enough. People are going to move about and that’s how it spread to begin with. It will take a while for the downward side of the curve to get to lower amounts and there are still places that will continue to rise as it moves inwards to the center of the US. Once the rapid testing is in place, that will help.
No we haven’t already lost it. It’s only April 10th. We have lost exactly two weeks. No one knows what will happen in a month or two months. Even if the season doesn’t start until July, you can still get in a 90 game season. The 1981 season was only a little longer that that , albeit for different reasons.
Home parks… it would suck if half the teams are at their home park and half are not
The peak is happening now.
Herd immunity is better than social distancing.
Radical changes as they relate to Covid-19 are needed. Radical changes unrelated to covid are not.
the truth
Herd immunity assumes Carriers are insignificant. South Korea had perhaps the greatest success in flattening the curve quickly and what they did was test widely and quarantine everyone who tested positive, whether or not they were symptomatic. They quarantined the sick and the carriers. It was highly effective.
Your herd immunity plan assumes we’ve tested everyone and can separate the sick from the non-sick. Never going to happen. Alternatively it assumes that it is sufficient to separate the low risk from the high risk people and quarantine just the high risk population. It’s not. Social distancing involves everyone for a reason. Low risk people 1) can be carriers and 2) still do die.
I suspect your herd immunity plan comes from a quack since you never cite the source and you are the only person who ever talks about it. I also suspect it is driven by a selfish desire on your part to be freed from participating in or feeling guilty about not adhering to social distancing. Though I doubt you would ever feel guilty. You’re clearly a sociopath.
Nobody will be at their home park. The D-backs sometimes but with no fans supporting them, negating any real advantage.
See brucenewton gets it…
Also Mo4ever realllllly gets it. Well said!
That’s what Sweden was going for, it looked like they were doing well for a while but things are not really going their way now. The numbers are catching up with them
Nah, probably just someone who thinks that the Fox network is good for something besides watching baseball.
Um, aren’t half the teams at their home parks and half aren’t, normally? Just sayin.
Ha Ha Ha.. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! I can just see MLB proposing this to the NYY. Turning George M. Steinbrenner Field over to some other team for their home.
Once again thetruth, all you do is spout your opinions. Cite your sources man! Without a reference to where you get your information, all you do is state your bs opinions
And your handle is thetruth?
It is going to be interesting when it comes to social distancing with runners on … tag plays will be really interesting to … how ever that catcher won’t have to worry any about catcher interference being 6 ft behind the batter will take care of that… wild pitches on curves might be really really interesting too!!!
@renbutler:
You’re scolding me on which outlet to listen to while treating ‘the most widely circulated model’ as gospel by calling my sources ‘completely false’. You’re putting way too much faith in the models. Monday’s (tomorrow’s) numbers will be higher than your projected peak’s of April 10th. Watch.
RIP thetruth.
Died for the economy, who had no idea who he was in the first place.
Exactly! It’s a depressing idea I know, but you’re spot on. Without rapid testing being available everywhere and a national plan that forces those who don’t care to comply, I don’t see how we can safely start anything up again.
The teams have facilities in Florida or Arizona. Under your plan, the Twins would have to find a facility in Arizona when they already have one in Ft. Myers. I’d rather wait for the medical experts to clear everything and then play baseball. It’s just a game and not as important as people’s health.
Herd Immunity means more deaths and an overwhelmed medical system.
If Social distancing can continue till intense testing or a vaccine is ready that would result in less death
At a certain point, I would rather have no baseball than have a champion crowned after a series of asterisks. I just looked quickly, but my count the Dodgers are the only Cactus league team to PLAY in more than one playoff game last year (Oakland and Milwaukee got bounced in the WC game). I want baseball back, but not simply for the sake of having it. The season at least needs to feel legit.
Completely agree. I want baseball back but not at the expense of the players’ health. Having them all in one or two places too early could cause another spike in infection rate.
MLB needs to stop thinking about the lost revenue from 2020 tv deals and look at the bigger picture.
Which is worse? Losing baseball for a year, or losing baseball players to Covid-19?
The link above is useful: covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
MLB would obviously have to be thoughtful about timing
That could be valid to argue playing vice not playing, but what you’re actually arguing makes no sense. Having players isolated together in dedicated hotels DECREASES their chances of exposure vice speading out. Together, you can control having zero outside contact. Spread out increases the likelihood of outside contact bringing the virus back to the stadium (and thus to teammates and opposition).
You believe timing matters? Ever lived in Florida? Summertime Severe thunderstorms come after total blues skies.. Then half an hour later can be total blue skies once again.
ST facilities do not drain like quality MLB facilities, meaning cancelations after an inch or 2 of rain comes down after some of these all of a sudden storms sometimes comes down, generally with severe lightning, sometimes power loss and playing at night is probably better, only what about the FSL league? Just cancel those so the rich boys can play in the ST stadiums?
All it takes is one carrier. Just think of all of those players and coaches crammed into their respective dugouts.
Yes I have, and you’re absolutely right.
How is the alternative no baseball or this? Every NL west team trains in AZ yet they put the Dodgers in a division with 4 good teams while the other NL west teams get some cupcake division. And the Yankees get 0 competition. This idea stinks
I never said that these exact ideas or no baseball were the only two options. My point was that I’m open to any ideas that makes it more likely, even if they are extreme.
I rather there be a Royal Rumble. 30 teams, 30 days. Winner takes all.
Sign me up for that a royal rumble would be awesome
Yes, I would rather have no baseball. If my Cardinals can’t play a reasonable amount of games at Busch, don’t play at all.
Yes I would rather have no baseball. If I just want a something to fill the gap where I can’t go see the games anyways I can watch an Asian baseball league. I prefer no MLB to having a stop gap pitiful product that brings about changes to the 2021 season cause some fool felt it was interesting to see the Oriels play the brewers for a pennant and now we have realigned divisions and permanent DH in both leagues and new records based on playing 162 games in Florida heat and humidity.
Ohhh nooo. Radical changes make me scareddd. Wake up. Nows the time to try stuff. Any season is better than no season
I disagree. I can’t imagine a team feeling good about raising their Cactus Northwest division title banner in 2021.
They were kicking around putting all teams in Arizona. If this was a possibility, they could just put the AL in FL; the NL in AZ and leave the divisions alone. I’m fine with a shortened season, expanded playoffs, no crowds, robo-umps, etc. This idea is unnecessary and completely devalues any semblance of legitimacy.
Not to mention that putting all the players in one concentrated area would be an extreme health risk.
Diamond Princess anyone?
Putting the players in one location does not put them at higher risk, it does the opposite. It keeps them isolated from external sources of infection. This is all predicated on them being able to test everyone involved though, and that may be impossible at this point.
Are you seriously trying to equate this plan to a cruise ship?
Please say that was parody…
Putting everybody together is fine if they all test negative on the way in. And never leave. Getting everybody from everywhere into Phoenix, without spreading the virus around any further along the way, would be the big challenge.
Yeah, this is the craziest scheme yet. In essence, a season of spring training games presumably followed by meaningless playoffs. A season structured this way wouldn’t earn an asterisk so much as a lengthy disclaimer.
I agree, play baseball like it should be played or cancel the season.
@hiflew
Yes. Just yes.
@hiflew We’ve lost all of spring training. Even “just being April 10th”, the month of April is lost. They aren’t starting this month, that’s pretty much guaranteed. A new “spring training” likely won’t begin until end of May, at which point the season would maybe begin end of June. To get in as much games as possible, with as little travel as possible, yes, they will need to get creative. Maybe it’s this plan, maybe it’s something else, but they’re not going to be playing in their home stadiums in front of crowds. You’re going to have to accept it.
Fine with this would rather not be in division with a powerhouse like Houston though
As an A’s fan, it’s been frustrating seeing the team win 97 games 2 strait years and not even be close to the division to the cheating Astros :/
I like the idea of teams being able to play in their spring training home stadiums. Plus, it would be neat to see a totally different divisional/league alignment for one year. I just don’t know how soon Florida is going to be ready for this.
Theoretically, if they’re sequestered, it would allow for the opportunity to start as soon as May 1st and with testing players daily and limiting movement and interaction with non-sequestered people, they could do it. If only testing was as easy to come by as the daily briefing makes it out to be. The question is, do they want to play baseball. If they want to, they can.
If a player on the Yankees tests positive, do they halt the season for 14 days while the team is quarantined?
They would have to, that’s what happened in the NBA. That’s why they would need to isolate everyone involved.
You mean when. Someone will test positive.
If a yankee player tests positive they just put them down.
@agent, they cannot test the players in the manner you suggest. The Liar in Chief can’t even test front line medical workers (MDs, nurses, hospital staff, firefighters, EMTs, etc) as needed. Until we have widespread testing available, baseball isn’t happening (IMO). You can’t allocate tests to baseball players because of tv contracts and entertainment purposes over the general public and frontliners. Even if all players did get tested (and per
The article, coaching staffs,
trainers, camera crews, field maintenance guys, security dudes, etc.) there is no way to sequester that many people without any outside exposure. Before long, people would start getting sick, and then yes,
all cooped up together, it’s like the Princess liner or the T.Roosevelt Navy ship: too many people too close together = lots of cases. I just don’t see it working.
Liar in Chief? You must be confusing the President with Sleepy Joe—the guy who is in bed with the Chinese. All, if not most of, the decisions the one who you call the Liar in Chief has made so far have been good and have slowed the spread and not overrun the health care system. Yeah they lied about masks so that health care workers could get them. What should they have done? Got a a better plan? Of course you do now.
The Dems want to be revisionists and say they would have done this or that, or cherry pick things to were wrong. I am grateful this guy is in charge.
So well said, Giantsphan. People make valid points that if you continually test players, isolate them, and eliminate travel, that you do minimize risk. However, they’re missing the bugger picture: look at all those tests you’re burning (badly needed ones, mind you) that are in such short supply. For what? To watch some games?
Let’s also consider the fact that if even one players tests positive, they’re shutting it down. So all of this is for naught. They’re not restarting again if they shutdown in July for 2 weeks.
Baseball is great, but one season isn’t that important in the grand scheme of things. If it can be played safely, in time, awesome. If not, let’s just do our best to try and get through this so everyone is healthy to see it in ’21.
@Flapjax, respectfully, let’s just “agree to disagree” on this one. I try really hard to keep politics out of my posts on the two baseball sites where I post, and I broke my own rule on my last post. I respect your opinion. Stay healthy Flapjax, and everyone else as well!
Too f’in hot in those places in the summer.
It’s hot everywhere in the summer
Few places get hot like Arizona and Florida, c’mon man
As if the Diamondbacks and Marlins don’t already play there. Still, there are a lot of reasons why this plan won’t work. So I get your point.
They both play in domed stadiums at a comfortable 70 degrees.
The D’backs and Marlins have roofs at their stadiums that can shield the heat. You just can’t continually play baseball in 100+ weather in open air stadiums.. The temperature is moderate in Feb and March and this is why spring training is there to begin with.
Tell that to all the soldiers stationed at Ft Hood in Texas. They don’t stop training in the summer because it’s over 100 degrees, and ruck marching is way more physically demanding than playing baseball.
Texas says hi. California Nevada too.
They use to play on turf in Cincinnati, and the field would be like 130° F
It’s never 130 degrees in Cincinnati. The record is 134 in Death Valley, CA. The record in AZ is 128. The record in Cincinnati is 108.
There’s a difference between air temperature and surface temperature.
Actual temperature and on field temperature are to different things. I just did a quick google search and found an article that said the temperature on an astroturf field has gotten as high as 180 degrees.
Astroturf adds between 35 and 50 degrees to actual air temperature.
On some summer days at the old Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati the Astroturf got so hot it would melt the shoes of the outfielders.
Fair enough. I wasn’t aware of that…
Yeah because the stadium was enclosed. No where for the air to go.
Because you didn’t bother to read Mo. That is why nobody can take your crap serious. Stick to baseball where you know a little something. Just a little. No credit necessary.
If you ever played the game you would have known about how hot turf can get in the summer.
i’ve lived in texas phoenix florida virginia and missouri. hottest was missouri. it was miserable.
Mo,
You seem like a cool guy. IMO, your posts are well informed, you’re respectful to other posters, and you are man enough to state when you are unaware of something (like your post above). I wish all posters were like you! Stay healthy everyone!
The heat is supposed to kill the virus.
Supposed to have been the case, but few experts still believe it.
It’s not so much the heat, but the intense UV, supposedly. That’s how it works with the flu. It’s an unproven theory, however. We won’t know until we get there.
It was the summer in Italy when they were at their peek. The heat does not make a bit of difference to this virus. Actually, it hates the cold. The labs have said under 22 degrees. So, that is why the health professionals have stated it won’t end just because it gets warmer.
February and March are summer in Italy? I’m sure the earth and sun would be surprised.
Yea, its summer in Lombardy in February. You are a grade A moron.
Larger rosters would allow for subs as needed due to fatigue.
I’ve lived in Phoenix all my life (38 years)… Do you think we stop all outdoor physical activity for 5 mos out of the year? We average over 120 days a year above 100 degrees… nearly 30 days over 110. Be smart, find shade when you can, pay attention to warning signs and drink twice as much water as you feel like you need!
Ideal? No… Possible? Most certainly.
No shade for that pitcher trying to gut through 6 innings in 110 heat. Locals are used to the heat but even they don’t bask in it for 3 hours at a time.
What are you talking about? The pitchers are in the shade any time they aren’t pitching or hitting.
“Yeah man but it’s a dry heat!”
Just like fire lol.
And in Arizona there is no to very little rainouts. Which would be great. I’m all in for just all of teams playing in AZ. And Start the games at 5pm or 6pm local time, for the east coast teams so we can watch at 8 or 9.
Reminds me of the classic cartoon of the two guys crawling across the desert, and that’s what one is saying to the other.
I get the joke about “dry heat” and it certainly applies to extreme places like Death Valley and southern AZ. But having lived in both Philadelphia and the high desert Intermountain West I can say there is no comparison between 100 degrees in the two places. In Philadelphia 100 degrees is miserable. If you are a person prone to sweating (like me) you will be dripping. In the Intermountain West it’s quite livable. And no sweating. The same is true for winter. Lower temperatures are more tolerable here because you don’t get the biting cold you get back east. And the snow is powdery, not icy.
The affects of heat exposure are not entirely about how you feel, it’s about what the heat is doing to your body. Extreme arid heat may not feel as hot because the perspiration evaporates more quickly than in humid air, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t being dehydrated just as quickly, if not more so.
For Florida, it’s not the heat that’s the problem, it’s that come July and August there will be a rainout somewhere in the state every single day. Especially if MLB is trying to fit in double headers, there’s no way that’s going o work.
I lived in Florida for over 40 years and that was my exact first reaction to this. If MLB is going to sequester teams into the smallest area possible, I’d think it would have to be someplace where LOTS of domes are available (and I have no idea where that geographical area would be). More than ever, if it’s a shortened season, weather cancellations will be a problem.
I guess that has to be added to the ever-growing “list of problems” any solution will face.
Florida has lots of Domes. Texas has a couple.
East Coast Teams play in Florida. Central Teams in Miller Park/where either Lions or Colts play. Midwest either where Cowboys or Astros play. West Coast some where.
Florida only has one true dome, the Trop. Marlin’s park has a retractable roof. The only other stadiums with a roof are basketball and hockey arenas, which to my knowledge would not be able to be refitted for baseball.
They’ll be a two break for the Arizona teams to rest, while the Florida teams make up all their rainouts.
Florida State League disagrees.
Florida State League games get rained out all the time, and a lot of them are never made up
It’s probably more like the late fall we’re talking about anyway.
Anything that saves baseball in 2020 safely.
Rooting for the Cactus League Northwest division!
Love the Brewers’ chances in that division.
Who ever roots for a division anyway?
Everybody finishes 4th in that division.
that might actually be a good idea. keep the teams where they are and just pick the tow few from each group to be in the playoffs. i dig it.
I think people were dumb when saying the winner of a shortened season wouldn’t be legitimate, but if this goes through, then I might agree. I think this is just too out there, I really don’t want to see a Braves-Dodgers or Twins-A’s World Series. Try to keep it AL-NL if possible. Why not just move all of the NL to either Arizona or Florida, and put the AL in the other?
Because each of these teams have their own facilities at their Spring locations. The logistics of having them use others is just unnecessary. I feel like it also spreads the top heavy teams out as well, since the NL has more depth of great teams and the AL has more depth of teams not really trying to win. This would actually spread the stronger and weaker teams more evenly.
Exactly baseballallyear.
Is Rob Manfred trying to destroy baseball? He’s doing more harm to MLB than Covid-19.
just let 2020 go. enough.
the both of you are crazy. no reason to give up on the year in April, and no reason to be bothered by Manfred trying to reason things out.
I am probably the only person in the world who wouldn’t mind if they realigned. Something East/West based would work for me. I getting to old to stay up an watch a west coast game and then get up for work at 5 in the morning. This would also allow for the players to have less travel time as well.
Sadly, in the summer AZ is on Pacific Time.
Broadcasts of games played without spectators in Arizona could easily be time-delayed for the home team’s time zone. So Arizona’s time zone is the least of the problems with this scheme.
Really?
Cause covid says no baseball in 2020.
Manfred says let’s try to salvage the season and have baseball in 2020.
Manfreds done a lot of dumb things. But trying to save baseball for 2020 isn’t one of them.
only 4/10 and should just give up trying to salvage any type of season?
Come on dude, I know it looks doom and gloom out there but believe it or not, there is a lot of progress happening at the same time. Lets see what happens in the next month, so far the projections are improving, hopefully people continue to social distance, rapid test continue ramp up and legit treatments comes effective. A TON can happen in the next month.
Assuming and just canceling the season without even knowing what is on the other side of this is premature.
I love my Yankees but they would have no competition in this realignment, please do this MLB LOL
Yep. Yankmees think they are always unbeatable. Did you beat these teams last year? Did you win every series? Get off your throne!
** Don’t need to answer. I never look back at the replies.
So someone makes a joke about their favorite team and you get so triggered yet can’t handle someone replying back? Lmao
Someone might want to tell major-league baseball extreme heat kills the virus
We don’t know this about this virus yet. Remember this one is 3 times worse than your normal virus.
It is not “3 times worse”, whatever that means, but yes it is unknown how this virus will react to the summer heat.
This virus is at least 3 times more aggressive. Thats the reason we’re in lock down and taking the measures we are.
On the bright side, it appears right now that there is only a single strain of COVID-19 instead of several (like the flu). This means that it looks like only a single.vaccine needs to be developed.
According to WHO, exposure to a temp of 56 C will rapidly reduce the number of COVID-19 cells over 15 minutes. Problem is, 56 C is what we would refer to as 132 F in the U.S., so you’re probably not playing much baseball at that temp either….
Yeah the extreme heat of a sauna could kill it on certain surfaces. Air would be considerably cooled by the time it reached the lungs and ineffective.
I like the idea of teams like the Yankees and Nationals (both of whom have hard throwing pitchers) being able to play the cheating Astros multiple times.
the Astros probably wolnt be cheating anymore. not only were the people in charge punished but more importently the owner’s pocket book. add in that there will likely be more scrutiny and i dont see this happening again with them at least any time soon.
Or anyone else for that matter. The sign stealing scandal is also going to end some careers. I doubt that AJ Hinch could get a job as a bat boy for the Amarillo Sod Poodles.
It’s apparent that this season, if it happens at all, will basically be an exhibition.
Yep. Play it so we can watch it but no champion required.
Let’s just do it big if we are getting creative
50-70 game schedule, allow teams to have fantasy draft(only players in draft are non-controllable, service time limitations, and free agents), start season with home run derby with micd up players. Playoff situation would be 4 day bracket type, single elimination.
I know it’s not perfect, something I was thinking about. Let’s have fun this year, enjoy our game
Dude you think too much without putting alot of thought into it.
And you don’t think enough. His idea wasn’t amazing but it also wasn’t bad. Stop being a negative downer.
You’re the one to talk It’s all bout you.
That’’s the definition of brainstorming. You get an idea, then you work on it to determine whether it’s viable.
Exactly. DusterDan gets it Halo. It’s ok to come out with an idea and that is what Angels94 did.
this is a great idea. not only will players be adjusting to the parks they will be using during the run up to the regular season, but they’ve already seen action in them so far this year and the extra parks allows for the possibility of maybe even AAA games being able to be held within the same manner. (as in PCL and IL also play within a AAA version of the Grapefruit and Cactus leagues) I feel like this gets things back to action much quicker then the AZ only plan.
Plenty of fans remember 1994 still, just let it go, no one has no reason to play this season, at all. We are living in a literal disaster movie. Stop trying to shoehorn “normal” life back in so it kills more people.
Dumbest….
1994 was a strike. Comparing the two situations is nonsense. But you’re a tool so it somehow makes sense.
That’s probably what baseball is worried about. Fan interest has been waning every year now. A lot of fans left after the 94 strike and never returned. Fed up that billionaires and millionaires couldn’t solve their CBA issues. Some returned, like me, when McGwire and Sosa brought some attention back to the game with their HR chase. The 94 strike only cost 40 or 50 games and still crippled future attendance. A whole season lost could be absolutely devastating for baseball’s popularity.
They’re different situations. You accurately nailed the mood in ’94, and it really hurt the game. I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t a sociopath harboring ill will towards any sport for canceling a season during a pandemic. One situation is self inflicted, the other is circumstance.
Do not see any advantage over just realligning divisions geographically by their home city. Travel would be about the same. Once the media and medical gestapo stops crushing the hcq cure all back to normal
Doubleheader every day then full season in half the time. Expand rosters to forty and consolidate the farm as planned.
Not sure why this is drawing a lot of negativity it’s this or no baseball at all.
I feel like if this was a legit option then there was no reason to delay the season at all. They were all already there and playing.
So would the cactus league play the grapefruit league in the world series? What if the league winners were both NL or AL? Would love to see a Cubs/Cardinals or Red Sox/Yankees works series even though it wouldn’t feel right.
Red Sox and Yankees are both Grapefruit
Of course you think everyone else wants to see the Yankees, Red Sox ,Cards and Cubs..As far as your concern the other 26 teams don’t exist.
I didn’t say everyone else, I said I. And I’m very aware of all teams, not just 4. You make odd assumptions with little knowledge of who you’re making the assumptions about. That’s weird.
You’re really bad at reading.
I hope they don’t call it the World Series. Give it another name. We can still enjoy watching baseball and rooting on our teams to the MLB Championship or whatever.
What would the difference between World Series or MLB championship be? It’s never actually been a “world” series.
I still remember when some sore losers wanted to exclude Asian teams from the little league World Series because they embarrassed the American kids by training harder and being better players. I’ve always thought that was a disgrace.
15 teams in a league means one team will be off every day. It’ll make for some interesting scheduling.
Why? We have 15 in each league now
True, but normally there are no limits on travel. Seriously doubt MLB would allow teams to travel back and forth between FL and AZ.
They have to do something. I’m already able to recite the total dialogue of every “MASH”, “Law and Order” and “Star Trek-TNG” episode completely…….
Hopefully baseball will be the first sign of things getting back to normal, bc its gonna get much worse before things get better economically. Its only a matter of time before all these mortgage holders, car loan people and landlords stop forgiving those who can’t pay. So how do all these potentially homeless people stay sheltering at home if they have no home bc the world continues to chicken little?
I hope that when this is “over” the economy comes ROARING back. Unlikely, but I still hope.
It always bounces back. ALWAYS.
Because economics are the most important thing in the world, right? Nevermind health or well-being, I guess.
Taking it to baseball, do these guys even have health insurance? Sure, a millionaire can probably afford care. What if someone making the ML minimum needed hospitalization though? That’s not cheap.
Thinking that economics do not directly impact peoples’ health and well-being is incredibly naive.
I see the usual baseball “Get Off My lawn” posters who won’t settle for anything less than normal baseball are typing away… Hint; 2020 is NOT normal so get over it and embrace the baseball changes that are with us for 2020..
Why should anyone settle for a substandard version of what they want? If I go to a pet shop wanting a ferret, I’m not walking out with a rat because they were out of ferrets. I’d rather wait longer for my ferret. If it turned out ferrets are extinct and I will never get one, then I would either accept a different pet or do without a pet altogether.
So you wait for your ferrit, we will play with our hamster.
Because we’re in a global pandemic and we can’t have our usual expectations. If it’s between having a ferret and more people dying of COVID or having a rat and less people dying, I’ll take the rat.
But you are only looking at two options and one of them is not the option I was choosing. I don’t want more people to die anymore than you do, so stop acting like some sanctimonious jerk. I am saying that if the options are this monstrosity or not having baseball at all, I would rather they not play at all.
Making minor changes to the game and sticking with them is one thing. These suggest huge changes that will be reversed next year. Temporary divisions and universal DH is not what teams assembled their rosters for.
COVID testing should be reserved for those who need it, period!!!! I’m a baseball fan and miss it but I can’t see this as an option. I would rather wait it out. Ideally if the season could start in July they could do a half season, eliminate intraleague play and concentrate on divisional play.
Yeah, we need to be at the point where doing this wouldn’t take away testing from where it is needed. So the MLB would have to fund additional production.
This just sounds really fun. The divisional alignments are fascinating. And as a Brewer fan, I love the idea of them playing the Mariners and Royals a lot. Plus I’m not too worried about the Padres and Rangers… that looks like the weakest division in this proposal by far.
For one season, in a year that’s already totally messed up, why not have some fun with wacky divisions?
There is more than one way to mitigate this thing and YES we should all target May 1st and the re-opening of non-affected areas.
I don’t think you understand this virus and what it means.
Firstly, the powers of exponential growth would be staggering if we went back to business as usual on May 1. You keep citing the flu and it’s death rate, but what you don’t get is that few of us have built up immunity to COVID-19 because it is still so new, whereas many people have immunity to various strains of the flu. COVID-19 is also far more severe and deadly than the flu, so without protective measures a disease like this growing exponentially, with no real defence could wipe us out (and our finances) at a staggering rate.
You’ve also cited the death rates of car accidents and the like, but this is a completely irrelevant statistic. Car accidents don”t have the potential to grow exponentially.
I also don’t think you’ve considered the strain on our medical systems. If hospitals are inundated with COVID-19 cases due to this exponential growth curve, this means that people would have difficulty receiving treatment for anything with an overwhelmed triage system.
You’ve also pointed out that people living in rural areas are being penalized for outbreaks in large cities. This is true, but it is clear that getting people to change their behaviors is like herding cats, and people *will* travel in and out of states at greater numbers with the quarantines lifted, bringing COVID-19 out of the urban areas, and vice versa.
Please do not politicize this. The facts are the same whether you are liberal or conservative, and the impact of this disease is the same whether you are liberal or conservative. Your political leanings should be entirely irrelevant. I realize that they aren’t, but let’s not stoke the fires.
Besson3v-who is “You and “You’ve”” in your post that your referring too? Did you copy and paste this?
it was a response to agentp, HaloHonk4Life.
okay what about the part about car accidents? Agentp didnt say anything about that
HaloHonk4Life: my apologies to him if the car accident argument within these comments wasn’t his.
It wasn’t in any ones previous post.. You copy and pasted it from another site. Just like Martras and I said.
HaloHonk4Life: how do we know that your response here wasn’t a copy and paste?
Pretty fruitless and pointless little debate, don’t you think? I think it’s clear that I’m responsive and using my own words and thoughts. Just don’t reply to this with something weird that I can’t find a copy and pasteable response for, okay?
Many of the initial comments on this article, several of which were agentp’s and others, have disappeared from the thread. I’m not sure why, none of them seemed egregious to me.
It’s clear you’re a liar too.
First off, this looks like a copy/paste from some internet blog reposting service like Huff Post which means you’re the one politicizing this.
COVID-19 is 2x as deadly and spreads 2x as easily as typically seasonal influenza. It spreads 2x as easily because of the lack of herd immunity. Influenza is a deadly disease for the elderly and immuno-compromised, but nobody has cared about how dangerous the flu is for vulnerable people for a long time. COVID-19 is NOT particularly scary for the vast majority of people. It’s a bad flu. Because it works in an almost identical way as the flu with the same symptoms and effects and people die from it the same way. Pneumonia. It’s just how the pneumonia starts. COVID-19 is more dangerous because it directly causes lung tissue damage. The flu allows for a secondary bacterial infection which causes pneumonia on a weakened immune system. We can treat bacterial pneumonia, but we can’t treat COVID-19 yet.
There’s only so much time the entire country/world can shut down before you start destroying the lives of 100,000 to save 1. States have been ramping up facilities and equipment to handle the growth spike which everybody knows is coming. Eventually, less intrusive, moderate policies will need to be put into place to keep the entire country of 350 million from falling apart
martras, I guess since I wrote the above I should feel flattered that you feel that my writing (just off the top of my head, not particularly edited) could pass for a news site.
You are contradicting yourself here.
You acknowledge the lack of herd immunity and the power of its spread, but you downplay its risk for the “vast majority of people”. It is risky *because* of the lack of immunity (unlike the seasonal flu), and *because* it is highly infectious, and *because* highly infectious disease can lead to exponential growth-like curves.
Yes, COVID-19 is not Ebola in what it can do to a single person, so we shouldn’t be fearful of our personal lives if we get it ourselves, but we should be fearful of its scale and power to spread. If you want to really be scared you can also throw in its possible power to mutate.
I agree that we can’t just quarantine forever, and eventually we need to let up. We just aren’t at that point yet.
Martras
For three days now COVID has been the number one daily cause of death, surpassing Cancer and Heart Disease. That’s not like the flu.
By tomorrow or thereabouts we will pass the number of deaths for the entire flu season, and that will have happened with about one month of COVID death. COVID is closer to 4X or 5X as deadly than the flu than 2X as deadly, as you say. The flu causes death .2% of the time. COVID is closer to 1% of the time. The flu season caused 20,000 deaths. We will pass that tomorrow or the next day on our way to a multiple of 20,000 deaths and that’s with heavy social distancing and shelter in place. Imagine what it would be like with those drastic measures, like we do with the flu. This is nothing like the flu.
Imagine what it would be like “without” those measures
NOT “with” those measures
With the flu, we take no special measures and get 20,000 deaths over the course of several months. With COVID, we take drastic measures and get 20,000 deaths in one month. See the difference?
It’s sad when people pose as instant experts and then get the basics wrong. COVID-19 is not an influenza virus, it’s a rhinovirus. They are different virus families, which is important, because they exhibit different behaviors. Pneumonia can be of either the bacterial or viral variety. One does not have to cause the other, and only bacterial pneumonia can be treated. So COVID-19 is not identical to the flu because it isn’t the flu at all. I also can’t imagine where you came up the outrageous idea that nobody has cared about the flu, when the truth is so obviously completely the opposite. Flu vaccines are created every year and everyone who has underlying health conditions or is older is urged to get one.
Everyone is looking forward to a relaxation of the restrictions and that day will come, most likely in gradual steps. It will take months. This is one of the lessons we can learn from the 1918-19 Spanish Influenza epidemic. The country was shut down in a very similar way for many months. It caused a lot of disruption (and a far high death rate than COVID-19) but the country survived it despite the fact that the government did far less to cushion the blow than we are seeing today.
Just pointing out that we don’t know for sure the actual number of deaths from the Coronavirus. Dr. Birx even stated in one of the task force briefings that they are taking a “very liberal” approach to recording the deaths and that anyone who has the virus that dies, even if the cause of death wasn’t the virus, that death is being counted in the virus death count. So the numbers aren’t exactly clear.
This is an issue in counting the deaths attributed to any disease. Often it isn’t the disease that kills, it’s the complications from it. COVID-19 isn’t pneumonia but a lot of people contract pneumonia secondarily and it’s the pneumonia that can be deadly.
Do not be flattered to be compared to HuffPo
May 1st is too soon.
It’s not an overreaction. We’re not trying to stop the spread, because we can’t. We’re just trying to slow the spread so our world class health care system doesn’t crash. This is about spreading it out over time.
the health care system that has been partially responsible for the overreactions?
Is it an “overreaction” simply because you feel it doesn’t affect you?
It’s an overreaction based on facts.
Care to share your “facts” with us?
Look at the stats from the 2018 flu season and compare them to this.
With the flu, we take no special measures and get 20,000 deaths over the course of several months. With COVID, we take drastic measures and get 20,000 deaths in one month. See the difference?
Those are the facts, prov356
prov356: how are flu stats relevant here? We have little immunity to COVID-19, and no seasonal COVID-19 shots we can take. Some of the symptoms are comparable, but I don’t think there is enough relevance here to establish as a baseline for comparison overall.
I just glanced at the TV screen. Pandemic numbers as of 2:30 pm EDT are 475,749 total cases, 17,925 deaths for a national mortality rate of just shy of 3.8%. In comparison, the mortality rate for the flu is about 0.1%. Sure, COVID 19 testing is limited. So are the COVID 19 death confirmations. But a casual glance at confirmed data suggests this current coronavirus can be accurately described as being 20-30 TIMES deadlier, from a mortality rate standpoint, than the flu. No politics, no skin in any game other than a fellow baseball fanatic. But the sooner we get a verified treatment and vaccine available, the sooner we knock the mortality closer to zero and have real baseball again. I applaud efforts to look into various approaches to salvage a partial season. But I think patience should be exercised until at least treatment is found. After the sign stealing issues, the last thing MLB needs are potential lawsuits from COVID-stricken participants. Here’s hoping there can be packed stadiums in time for the playoffs, if a season can happen.
The Attorney General agrees with you. He’s pushing to end most restrictions after the beginning of the month
Oh, well, if the ATTORNEY GENERAL says it’s safe, then OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That’s great if you go to a lawyer to get medical advice.
Yes, facts matter. Without the actions taken throughout most of the country and the sacrifice of so many medical professionals the numbers we have now would be exponentially higher. Facts matter.
the facts are the disease only drastically affects 3-5% of the world’s population
The same 3-5% who are at high risk for the seasonal flu.
that’s not facts. we simply don’t have enough tests to know who’s infected and who’s not. who may be passing the virus to others but doesn’t know because they are asymptomatic.
the death rate in America is 3.5%. Let’s say 100M people were infected, you’re good with 3.5M people dying unneccesarily?
again, the ones in the risk groups should shelter in place. those of us who are in the 97% should get back to work
and how do you separate the wheat from the chaff here without more available testing?
its simple, if you are not in the risk groups, you go about your life again.
I think this is the only way to proceed. We can’t continue to lock down as we are.
The hardest hit are the elderly and those with secondary ad tertiary health issues. Most healthy people can weather this.
healthy people for the most part are seeing only amped up flu symptoms
is that based on your expert medical opinion? you’ve tested all these individuals yourself then?
The dumbest thing you can do is take a “test everyone approach” since passing a test doesn’t really mean anything. Say, for example, following your logic, we begin testing everyone, By the time you test the first percentage of people they may become infected before you finish testing others. Moreover, those who want to test everyone are not even considering the logistical nightmare of such an exercise. TO test everyone in the country it would probably take years.
The only people who should be tested are those displaying symptoms.
you proved my point, thank you.
since we don’t know currently who has it we can’t tell who may get it later. And you’re ok with that. So it’s likely this could come back in the fall or winter and we have another disruption to the country,
Elbow – you’re in panic mode. Stop watching the “news” and learn the facts. jasbcar is correct. 3-5% are at high risk if they contract corona. That’s the same 3-5% who at high risk from the seasonal flu, cold, or any other illness they might catch. Those at high risk or their caretakers should take the necessary precautions. Americans are suffering financially and businesses are failing. I thank God that I go to work every day and have not been affected by what I believe is an overreaction. But everyone else needs to go back to work.
More importantly, our enemies are watching closely and taking notes.
Except there are healthy people in their 30s dying…and there are families that have at risk people at home so it’s not simple as “healthy” people just go to work.
war – please post an article that documents people in their 30s who are in good health and have died solely from contracting coronavirus.
The death rate is NOT 3.5%. That would be assuming only the people who’ve been tested have had the virus. We know many, many times (at least 10x) more people have/had the virus than we’ve tested and most people with the virus are told to stay home and not even go to the doctor.
The mortality rate of this virus was well documented in China and it looks about like this.
0-19 0.0%
20-29 0.1%
30-39 0.3%
40-49 0.6%
50-59 1.2%
60-69 3.6%
70-79 8.0%
80+ 14.8%
But that doesn’t tell the whole story. Preexisting conditions like asthma, heart disease, diabetes make an enormous impact on survival rates. Men are also 50% more likely than women to die from the disease with a factor of 1.2 for men and 0.8 for women.
Completely healthy 30 year old baseball coach in NJ dead from Covid-19
AndyMeyer – what was his name?
jasbcar
In South Korea they quarantined everyone who tested positive, whether or not they were symptomatic. They quarantined both the sick and the carriers. And they had far more dramatic results in terms of stopping new cases and deaths. That’s why they are looking at playing baseball.
We have not taken those measures. We have had social distancing and shelter in place but we have not quarantined the carriers. Getting the carriers back to work and congregating in groups, as you suggest, would be disastrous. It would spread the disease even more, and more people would die. We have already lost nearly 20,000 in just one month. And that’s with strong measures (although we know there are lots of people behaving as if there’s no reason to take precautions). Relaxing those measures would only accelerate death. We have already passed Swine Flu in one month and we are about to surpass the entire flu season in one month. Let’s keep the breaks on.
You seem like a smart enough guy to google it yourself.
prov356
Here ya go
google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/04/02/healthy-new…
We get it, you don’t care about anyone besides yourself. If you did, you would realize that simply “going about your life again” would just put others at risk. Would you be ok with not spending time with your parents or grandparents?
So what, we ask those “high risk” ppl to shelter in place for a year because it’s inconvenient to some?
There are those of us who don’t share your sentiment. I don’t give a- well, I don’t care, let’s just say, about the world returning to normal until it’s safe for everyone.
Healthy, young people have lost their lives to this too.
I have people I care about who could be at high risk.
One person’s choices just don’t affect them here.
Many of those would die anyway since they are so liberally counting what a Covid death is. Additionally, any number of death rate is just a guess because we have no idea how many people have had it and been asymptomatic or not required medical care.
That is not a fact. Those are the current numbers given our best efforts to prevent exponential growth, not a worst-case-scenario model.
Besides, as has been pointed out, 3-5% of 350M people is huge, and also extremely costly to care for.
besson – 350m people won’t be infected so your comment is an exaggeration. We have 500k now and we’re starting on the downslope.
350m is a potential figure given exponential growth which is an inevitable outcome if we do what a few people here are suggesting to do in abandoning our efforts.
Think that’s too alarmist? Okay, let’s say half the US population is infected (not entirely unlikely given that few of us would have immunity, unlike the seasonal flu).
That’s still 5.25 – 8.75M people. And, don’t think that this amount of people dying wouldn’t also have a huge impact on the economy. The economy is screwed either way..
I think you also aren’t considering mutation and new strains. There are some diseases that we never developed a vaccine for but just went away on their own. I think we are hoping that we can do the same with COVID-19.
Maybe its time to continue the shelter in place for those with the underlying medical conditions that make COVID-19 worse and for the elderly. That’s the targets of the virus. the rest of us need to get back to work
Such ignorance
Mark Campbell is literally on TV being interviewed right now talking about how this “kicked his a**” and his hospitalization stay
You open the economy now and it will be shut back down in about 2 weeks, with an all new hammering of our hospital system and spike of cases/deaths
The virus doesn’t care about your paycheck, it merely wants to kill you – and it is desperately hoping you’re one of the low hanging fruit that goes out into groups so it has that chance
Oh, so one guy is your proof the virus kicks everybody’s ass to the point the entire country will stop moving? The data is overwhelming. This virus presents as asymptomatic to moderate symptoms for the vast, vast majority of people.
The elderly and vulnerable are going to have to get used to the idea of very limited social contact for an extended length of time of at least 6-12 months.
Depending on location, shelter in place has done what it needed to do or it may need to be continued for a few more weeks while a specific location ramps up supplies and facilities to treat.
Aside from that. It’s a virus. It doesn’t want anything. It just reproduces because it’s genetically wired to reproduce.
martras, you are still missing the point.
This is not about the risk to people at the individual level. Thankfully that risk is low. This is about trying to reduce its spread so that the elderly and vulnerable don’t have to spend the next 6-12 months (or more) in quarantine, and so that our hospitals are not slammed by cases among people that inevitably don’t quarantine, don’t realize they are vulnerable until too late, infect their loved ones in the elderly/vulnerable category, etc.
besson – respectfully, if that’s the case, we will be sheltering the country in place every year for flu season. Those who are at high risk should take the proper precautions. That is true for any vulnerability.
prov356: sorry, I don’t understand your point.
Why do you feel that bringing up the flu is relevant? Again, we have no immunity for COVID-19, no seasonal shots, and it is far more severe. What is the relevance here?
“Oh, so one guy is your proof the virus kicks everybody’s ass”
No, hes one of countless – he just happened to be the one on the screen as I typed that. And he’s also an example of someone way more physically fit than most all of the slobs you want back out on the street
“to the point the entire country will stop moving?”
The entire country will stop moving once again as soon as cases spike once more from this beyond idiotic “just let all the young get sick and pray it doesn’t quickly overwhelm hospitals and kill too many” mentally you are presenting
Everything will also stay shut down even longer because everyone with any sense of intelligence and morality will stop going outside again, and for even longer, as soon as the second spike starts. We have more than a hundred plus years of history showing all this stuff
Don’t open too early and we might be done with this soon. Try to force an opening in the face of a virus hardwired to spread fast and mame/kill a ton, and you are likely looking at a completely lost 2020 because the second shutdown will be dramatically worse than the first
prov356 – the flu season killed 20,000 in six months, without any precautionary measures. COVID has killed 20,000 in one month, with extreme precautionary measures. See the difference?
besson – I again refer to the 2018 flu season when 80,000 people died because it’s also a virus. It’s a relevant comparison. We don’t have immunity or an effective vaccine for the flu. The average effectiveness of the flu shot is only about 40% each season. The people who have died from corona are the same category of people who die from the flu every year,
As far as it being more severe, the vast majority of people who contract corona will see mild to moderate cold or flu symptoms. My opinion is we have overreacted based on the information I have seen from several outlets.
Hey Mo – what flu season year stats are you citing with your 20k number?
The flu doesnt even kill 20,000 – it usually kills much less than 20k, and it doesnt kill every even semi-compromised person as this is basically doing.
And if this virus hit the number of people the flu hits each year, you are talking millions of people dead from Coronavirus in the US alone, and billions across the globe
This is not even remotely like the flu in any possible way, and anyone bringing the flu into the discussion is doing nothing but showing their ignorance or dishonesty.
prov356,
Even among those that decide not to take their flu shots, there is still decades of public immunity that exists. We’ve been exposed to the flu for a long time, there are many strains of it, so far we’ve been largely successful at dealing with the flu.
Perhaps COVID-19 will ultimately end up like the flu in this respect, but it is not the flu, and we aren’t there yet. Therefore, it is not a terribly relevant comparison, especially for the present.
dark – here are the flu death stats from the CDC for the last few seasons:
2013 – 43,000 dead
2014 – 38,000 dead
2015 – 51,000 dead
2016 – 23,000 dead
2017 – 38,000 dead
2018 – 61,000 dead (I have seen other numbers at 80k for 2018)
cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
I really hope corona ends up being at or below these numbers. I believe we have curbed the spread through the measures taken but I don’t think we needed to be as drastic as we’ve been.
@Martras
So you are volunteering your elderly and at risk loved ones to die, in order to “get the economy going?”
besson – “Perhaps COVID-19 will ultimately end up like the flu in this respect”
I hope that is the case. I believe it will be.
prov356,
I still honestly don’t understand why you feel that a direct comparison to the flu is relevant given COVID-19’s highly unique factors, or why you feel that we are at the point of being able to assert with confidence that we have curbed the spread?
prov356,
““Perhaps COVID-19 will ultimately end up like the flu in this respect”
I hope that is the case. I believe it will be.”
Me too, but unfortunately it seems way too early to know much of anything.
besson – it’s a virus so it’s a logical direct comparison to the flu. More than half of the flu strands every year are new with no vaccine.
prov356,
I’ll grant you that it shares the same classification of a virus. That’s not a very strong comparison though. Are apples and bananas pretty much the same just because they are both fruit?
The flu strands that appear every year are mutations baring similarity to prior flu strands. In many cases our bodies already know how to handle unfamiliar new strands of the flu. Shots are designed to strengthen our overall immune systems, sort of a training process.
Covid, on the other hand, is new. Our bodies have not seen anything like it before. It is NOT comparable to the flu, and I’m going to keep debating you on this until you acknowledge that they are different beasts.
prov365
That source says the TOP of the range for flu deaths, for the 2017-2018 season, was 12,000-61,000. Fact is they struggle to nail down flu deaths. As with COVID, deaths caused by the flu or COVID may easily be attributed to other causes. And with the flu there are deaths attributed to the flu that areactually due to other cause. Apparently that is not so true with COVID.
The numbers you cited are not actually counted incidences of death by flu, as they are with COVID. They are estimates which at there source are wide ranges. Nevertheless, I’ll cop to relying on a poor source. I went with a member of the medical community, whose number was repeated by someone here on MLBTR. That was sloppy on my part. That person cited 20,000 flu deaths when we were at 500 COVID deaths. They said we would never reach 20,000. Yet here we are. There was a guy here who said we would never reach 18,000 deaths, the Swine Flu threshold. Well we’re past that. And there was a guy here who said we would never even reach 1,000 deaths. Yet here we are. And this is with extreme precautionary measures. Imagine where we would be if we listened to the deniers and naysayers. That flu number, even the 61K number you cite, would be in the rearview mirror.
besson – Not to beat a dead horse, but I would say it’s apples to bananas if I were to compare it to heart disease, diabetes, tennis elbow, etc. But comparing the the path and affect of 2 viruses is a logical comparison.
I respect your opinion and we can disagree. Thanks for the debate.
prov356, you weren’t debating the path and affect of the 2 viruses or else I might not have engaged you in conversation. You were comparing these viruses directly in terms of their threat.
besson – death rate is the affect. My argument has been to point out that the death rate of the flu is extremely high and we haven’t closed the country because of it. Read my comments again.
I concede your point that this is a new virus so a different and more stringent response is warranted. I believe we went too far.
Again, I respect your opinion and we can disagree.
prov356, I think I understand where you are coming from now, but I’d like to point out that the death rate is only a single vantage point to all of this. What about the sheer numbers of people severely impacted or the total number of deaths? Would there be a certain total where you’d feel that what we are doing is justified?
I ask because, again, the potential for this is exponential growth with no real defence. Let’s say the death toll is 1%, but 200 million people are impacted… That’s 2M deaths. If the death toll was 10% but only 10 million were impacted that’s a very scary death toll, but only 1M deaths.
So, point being, I think what we are doing is exactly right. We don’t want to spiral out of control in numbers given that we really don’t have much of a defence for it, especially given the severity of this.
Stop getting your info from CNN.
Prov, that means that much of Congress, the administration, Supreme Court justices, many federal judges, military officers, other government personnel 50+ yrs old, etc, should be corralled and quarantined in place with the rest of their fellow elders, for their own protection, and especially for ours. Hmm.
Treatment research sounds slightly better to me.
Finlander – Not sure how you got there from anything I said.
My mistake, it was a response to jasbcar’s suggestion we shelter risk group members in place, not a particular comment of yours. Wanted to point out how many people qualify as elderly.
My biggest concern is how highly contagious this new virus is, that an asymptomatic (and therefore likely untested) person can be a carrier and get others gravely ill, while the flu is contagious mainly when symptoms are present. The covid spreads exponentially and it is elusive to track with limited testing. Slowing the spread buys time for treatment development. This is probably more like tuberculosis or smallpox than flu. Nasty, but can hopefully be eradicated with medical expertise.
They should be placed in some sort of “nursing” facility… a sort of “home” where they are all together in close quarters… good thing we haven’t had any such place become the epicenter of an outbreak
I like it. Should be adequate and rapid testing available by June 15, start of spring training. 81 game schedule starting July 1. Playoffs to follow for Grapefruit and Cactus. Player salaries are a percentage of TV revenue for abbreviated season.
From what I hear in the medical community that seems doable. The question is will those testing machines be limited and will the broader population be asking “why do baseball players get all the machines?” Probably. Also, how do they respond when players test positive, and how does that affect the effort to resume baseball? Complicated stuff, actually.
While I agree that the heat can be a problem at both locations, all the League has to do is have night games only. The Rangers have been doing this for decades.
Perhaps, if the virus subsides by Juneish+ then everyone can go back to their regular stadiums?
Both scenarios are interesting to contemplate. If either plan is adopted, I would hope that there is not regular championship play or a World Series. That would seem unfair because of the irregularity of such a season. It would have less impact on player stats, so they could be counted.
man I didn’t know Diamond and Silk were such big baseball fans.
This is better than the all Arizona plan because they don’t have enough fields to pull that off. There is not going to be an ideal way to play baseball this year, so glad baseball is looking at different ways to pull off a season. Obviously, too soon to put a concrete plan in place, but having multiple options explored ahead of time means they can put one in place when the time comes. Also too soon to write off the season in total as well.
This has Mariners win their first WS feeling all over it…and the huge asterisks attached to it Lololol
Great, it could be a Cubs vs braves or a AL vs Al world series. I don’t understand why sports like golf don’t just continue. There’s no crowd or noise anyway
In Florida I would suggest that the teams in the Teams in the Tampa Bay area (include the Rays) make up one division and the teams along the east coast and Naple/Ft. Meyers make up the other division. That would tremendously reduce travel and the teams could use the Trop and the Marlins Park to mitigate weather concerns.
3 divisions ,southwest, east, and central in florida
What is the point of the playoffs period in this shortened and altered season, but especially if doing this insanity?
Just have all teams play as many games as possible. No need to take nearly a month of playing time where only a few teams will be playing each day. Let all 30 teams get as many games as they can in and forget the silly idea of crowing winners with massive asterisks.
My thoughts are that if you are creating a different type of baseball season, why not go all in? Instead of traditional standings, consider each series a tournament. So for example you get a point for winning the series, maybe an extra point for a sweep. This will make every game and series much more important. Just trying to think outside of the box here. I love baseball no matter how it’s played. We can return to normalcy next year. This could be a year to try different things sense they may shuffle divisions, no fans etc. any other ideas of what to try? Yes, I’m sure the traditionalists will say nope, can’t make any changes and bash this. Don’t respond…that’s a better approach if you don’t want to think.
If this was able to happen at all (the logistics remain daunting), some suggestions…
* Eliminate divisions (just as the NFL did in its 1982 season). Yes, with 15-team leagues everyone will have a series off, but this year we can tolerate that inconvenience.
* 84-game season (6 games vs. each opponent — 3 home, 3 away).
* Use Tropicana Field and Marlins Park as frequent “home” parks for all teams in Florida, as both are domed and air-conditioned. Let Chase Field serve a similar purpose for Arizona teams. All three venues can handle daily “doubleheaders” with separate teams, e.g., in Miami, Twins vs. Nationals in the afternoon, Tigers vs. Mets at night).
* Play a wild-card game of #5 at #4 in each league, followed by playoffs and World Series (all postseason games at domed MLB parks). OK, so we might wind up with a Nats-Dodgers WS; hey, these things happen.
I would like to know how minor league baseball would work. Will they be playing competitive games if the MLB is? I can imagine games going on in the backfields of spring training complexes. But that’s another 100-150 players PER TEAM to be worrying about testing
Doesn’t appear they’ll be a minor league season in any scenario. A team’s 40 man roster only, although some of those players are not major league ready. Teams with a heavy concentration of pitchers on their 40 man should benefit. Hitters will be putting up video game numbers if the season gets off the ground.
Do you know how hot it is in Arizona in the Summer, I guess not.
Do you know how hot and humid it is in Florida in the Summer? Ditto.
This is why it’s called Spring Training.
I like the idea of realignment. but I wanted an 81 game season and the divisions the way they used to be
Al East, AL West
Nl East, Al West
No Wildcard, the hell with it, and have the World Series done by Oct 1st
I can’t see them getting rid of any playoff games. Clearly the MLB administration’s goal here will be to make up some lost revenue and the playoffs are what the tv providers want. If fans will be allowed in by then, I suspect they will try to increase the playoff games to help offset the loss of revenue rather than decrease them.
Until we get a vaccine all of this might be a pipe dream. But if it looks like things are slowing down: Allow teams three weeks to prepare at their own facilities or share facilities if it makes more sense to keep everyone involved healthy. Regardless of where the games are played you run into the same issues of maintaining a clean environment. The league could put a synthetic surface down in any of the domed stadiums and play multiple games each day at the same site. Use minor league rules for extra innings to help eliminate any scheduling mishaps caused by long delays. Set up portable locker rooms in the empty parking lots for each team to have their own dressing room, locker and training rooms. Two and half hours between games would allow for teams to get in their daily pre-game practices on the field and TV personnel time to do their changeovers. Reserving Rooms at 5 Star hotels to sequester the players wouldn’t be a problem during these trying times. Thinking outside the box as the article states is what will have to take place if there is any chance of baseball this year.
Better than nothing, I guess.
Do it the right way or don’t do it at all.
The owners can afford to lose revenue.
They’ll just use their baseball loses as a tax write-off against their other profitable businesses.
Just do the same thing as NASCAR and have the players play either “Out of the Park Baseball or The Show.” Video game the experience.
They literally announced this like an hour ago
I like the idea, but I see one issue with this – there’s an odd number of teams in each state. Since they can’t do interleague or split squad games, how would the schedule work? Would teams have a rotating day off? Would each team play one game instead of a three or four game series? Curious as to how MLB proposes to get around that.
I think this is a great idea. I would find it very interesting to see it play out. If the logistics work, give it a shot. Play ball!
Yankees, Phillies, Jays, Tigers, and Pirates are a projected division. I’m all here for it
Tigers, Pirates, Royals, Marlins and SF in one division, a battle of the have nots. Yes I know the logistics are impossible.
Why can’t your “Powerful” Yankees win in a more power aligned division?
The more of these I read, the more I favor just cancelling the entire season. I love my baseball, and I’m going stir crazy being locked up and no sports. But I dont want to watch a game that has been radically and fundamentally changed.
Whats changing other than the fact they’re not playing in their home stadiums. I mean the ST ballparks are a lot better now. Some are smaller versions of the MLB satdiums they play in.
I don’t know why they don’t just let the teams play in their home ST parks. Maybe some will either have to go to AZ or FL on occasion
Not playing in their stadiums, no fans, realigned divisions, 7 inning games, expanded rosters. And, I would assume that it would affect next yrs revenue sharing, service time, draft, etc. And nobodys saying it now bc we just want a seasons, but I’d bet money that at end of season somebody wont be happy and will be screaming put an asterisk next to whatever bc it wasnt a normal season. If all that is the case, then dont count it as a season, call them exhibition games and player development.
The Ray,Red Sox,Braves and twins in one division and the stinking Yankees get to play the tigers and pirates in another division… I don’t think so. Four world series contenders in one. and Yankees get to play the bad news bears and the kids from sandlot
That bothers me too.
Also, how do you separate the Mets and Yankees by divisions when they are in the same state?
And with the Marlins, Rays, and Braves, they should always be in the same division.
I understand that this is about Spring Training locations, but teams did not build their rosters based on that. They built themselves based on their position within their regular season division and leagues.
Rather have no baseball than this nonsense
If this is what gets us a baseball season, then I’m okay with it. Marlins and Rays get their home fields though, and share with nobody. This is our state! Same in Arizona with the D-Backs.
As for realignment, I’ve always felt that realignment for baseball should be done nearly in the same fashion as the NBA – Eastern and Western. Just my thought process.
Share “your” stadium with nobody huh. The fish play in an empty stadium anyway so y’all will feel right at home!
If teams like the Mets and Indians want to play as a home team in a stadium that has championship banners from the last 33 or more years, then I guess I can deal with it.
Besides…I was just making a tongue-in-cheek statement. But on a serious part, I imagine that the home state teams (Rays, Marlins, and D-Backs) would want all of their home games in their own stadiums instead of their ST homes. Why wouldn’t they? I imagine they’d also want their road games in their own stadiums too. Would any team playing against them be against that?
I know. Just having some fun. Stay safe
Fortunately you have no say in it. lol
The idea of divisions being randomly chosen is really exciting to me. Unfortunately travel makes that impossible moving forward.
All teams having DH is the biggest crap I’ve ever heard of though.
The divisions part is the problems for me.
Perhaps just having no divisions, and the 5 best records make the playoffs. 3 and 4 are the WC game. 1-3 are automatically in the Division Series.
The teams in the Cactus League would be far better off. 15 teams with the longest drive being maybe an hour. I’ve caught a day game at one ballpark and a night game at another more years than not, they are that close together.
I’d be down for a year of this setup as the geography generally works. Cactus has all the west coast team, grapefruit has all the east competitors and the midwest is mixed between the two.
“The average temperature during July — the hottest month in Phoenix — is 106.1 degrees but every year a few days are at least 10 degrees hotter than that. The average date for the last 110-degree day of the year is about early September”
And it’s not like it suddenly cools down by 8 o’clock.
Playing in that weather every single day? I don’t know if its possible, let alone safe.
And in mid-summer the temperature generally does not drop below 80 degrees by dawn. The blast furnace is typically running at full bore by mid-morning.
As an Indians fan, I disagree. They would go from battling the Twins for the division to playing for a wild card behind the Dodgers. And some of those divisions in the Grapefruit League are insane!
Have been pro dh for twenty plus years imagine Davis and Ces in the same lineup? Would do the Mets a lot of good
if the players have to be separated for months on most players with families are against playing.
there is an espn article about this.
Anecdotal anything is not consensus, this is a path for the players to get millions they’re due. ESPN presented one side of the equation and not even the full equation. When looked at from a macro perspective and removing emotion, many of the guys just need to talk with their spouse and/or agent and they’d choose to play. It’s their money at stake and life changing money. Think about it, they’ve spent the past 3 weeks cooped up together, give them another 3 weeks and they’ll be chomping at the bit to get out – for free!!
But they should indeed be given the option, and outside of the birth a child stoping a player from sequestering themselves, I see the vast majority opting for playing, even if they have to separate from their loved ones for 3-4 months.
one side of equation was presented on these pages. if you read the espn article it was players’ response to the mlb proposal. and most clearly stated they would love to play baseball but not in this situation. reading comprehension definitely helps when you make an argument.
And yet a lot of players are way in favor regardless because, just like everyone else, they aren’t getting paid.
have you read previous articles on this site? if there is no season they get paid in full. if there is a season they get paid in full if they play the full season what ever the season look like. if they play 50% of the season they get paid 50% of their normal salary.
At least two owners so far want a 40% decrease in salaries for them to sign off. On top of any decrease a pro-rated season would cause.
I like it! 2020 is going to be different, nothing wrong with thinking outside the box!
I just want baseball and I don’t care where it’s played. Just play.
That would not be baseball. It would be a somewhat glorified extended spring training.
Why all the radical changes? AL in Arizona, NL in Florida. Or vice versa. If team X plays home games at team Y’s spring training field, what does it matter? There’s no fans there. Teams tailor their roster in part to their most frequent opponents, their home ball park and their specific league. All of that is out.
They only real problem I have with this is if you are going to throw in the “all DH” rule, you have to at least keep NL and AL teams separated. AL teams have already had the luxury of signing DH-first players and are much more prepared to utilize that spot, putting both leagues in one division gives a definite advantage to AL teams.
For example, Houston acquired Alvarez knowing he could play DH. St. Louis just traded away Martinez because they don’t have a DH spot to use. It’s a distinct competitive advantage right off the bat.
Glad to see MLB is exploring all of their options. I encourage them to take advantage of this highly unusual, perhaps once in a lifetime opportunity, to do something unique. Thanks MLB.
Thanks MLB!!!! They should never have canceled their season. They could’ve played more of spring training but noooooooo, we must follow the stupid NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody likes the NBA anyway. Correct me if I’m wrong.
MLB cancelled the season? I thought we were here talking about a diffrent course of action in playing the season. Correct me if I’m wrong
Why are we talking about the coronavirus. Do we care so much normally about the flu. The coronavirus is not something we all need to be all scared over. It is an issue. C’mon guys, you are taking this way to far.
Why do you feel that the flu is a relevant comparison dave huth?
Do your research, how many people die from the flu every year? Oh wait the fake news media doesnt pick up on that but will pick up on the coronavirus. It is an issue but now that big.
I repeat: why do you feel that the flu is a relevant comparison, dave huth? The flu is quite different.
For example, we have little public immunity to covid, no defence, much less data and understanding because it is so new, what little data we have suggests that it is far more severe and capable of infectious exponential growth. These are all BIG differences, but I guess since you are a good researcher, you know this?
I’m glad you recognize me for being a good researcher
megalomaniac!
the sarcasm flew right over your head.
I don’t know the actual size of the Cooperstown Dream Park facilities, but they have many fields and hotels close by that could accommodate a bunch of teams. They could all stay in the complex and maybe keep it contained. The biggest issue would be the weather..
Considering what an unmitigated disaster Florida’s government is, it’s absolutely foolish to consider going anywhere near that state. If public health officials approve of the Phoenix plan, and the players agree to the sacrifices it’ll require, then fine. Otherwise there’s no good way to even think about reopening the leagues yet.
Oh, and folks, stop making weather an issue. That’s the teams’ problem and the players’ problem and you can bloody well expect they’re all going to consider it before they agree to anything. You don’t need to do their thinking for them. And you don’t know better than they do. So just stop it.
Attendance is going to rock bottom this season anyway, so why not go with this plan? At least we can watch on TV.
Screw it, let’s just build a couple of diamonds on Dana White’s “Fight Island.”
This would actually be kind of cool. I’m usually considered a “baseball purist” but I’ve got to say… if the circumstances made it so this could safely happen and it would mean baseball (as opposed to no baseball) I think this could be a pretty cool “one-time/year thing”
I must say these comments have been the best comedy read in the history of MLB TRADE RUMORS. Wow! Just Wow! And I thought Manfred was a clown?
I like the idea for the most part my idea is go with no divisions just play teams in closest proximity and the top 5-7 teams in the league make the playoffs.
Just call it already. Date of death, April 10.
I have refrained from talking about baseball for weeks and have yet to comment on this situation. I have come to terms with the fact I probably won’t see baseball again. My health is deteriorating due to my cancer and I have literally only been outside in my yard once in like a month. I’d much rather they not do this at all butI understand they still want to attempt to salvage the season. This year I had hoped to see my white Sox in the playoffs after a long drought. It appears it won’t happen. So no at this point no baseball until next year is better
hope you get healthy and pain free.
Chicagofan1978, sorry to hear about your health. I pray you find peace and strength in your days ahead of you.
praying for you 1978
Thanks guys, I’m just praying for everyone else who still has a chance
My fav team needs to make some radical changes as well. A flurry of trades for some LH pitchers and RH batters. And a bat that can DH. Either that or turf the season.
Hope they can work this out.
Obviously there will never be a perfect plan.
But from what I have read above many of the issues have been addressed.
And there is no reason why they can’t keep an open mind and improve as they go.
This is going to happen it’s just a matter of how and when at this point.
Just cancel the season
Fans just want to see baseball, owners want a pay check. If there’s no further risk, do it. Crowning a champion at the end isn’t necessary. Just let everybody watch some ball.
Do not play!! Forget it.
This has to be one of the dumbest ideas in MLB history, might even be dumber than the ASG determining WS home field advantage. I want to see baseball played this year, but I’d rather they cancel the season than to make a mockery of the season.
I was under the mistaken belief all the games were going to be played in AZ until (or if) it was determined to be safe to return to their home stadiums. And since FLA is starting to explode with COVID-19 cases, I’m guessing FLA isn’t going to be a viable option for a while. I’m assuming AZ isn’t hit nearly as hard as other areas of the country, otherwise MLB wouldn’t even be entertaining this idea.
Expect for D-Backs playing at home (and Miami & TB if games are played in FLA), I don’t see where there’s an advantage for, say, the Angels or White Sox over, say, the Yankees playing games in AZ if were where the AL teams play in May/June/etc. These are neutral parks. If the White Sox and Yankees play in, say, Scottsdale with no attendance, no team has the advantage, except the “home” team, only because they bat last. And even then, the “visiting” team also has a little advantage of their own by batting first.
Take it even further, and I don’t why you would do it, but you could theoretically schedule a doubleheader where the Yankees could host the first game and the Sox could host the second game, and there would be no overall advantage in that doubleheader.
Just because the Cubs play ST in Mesa doesn’t necessarily mean they need to play the May/June/etc. home games there. They wouldn’t gain a home field advantage by playing in Mesa, outside of the normal advantage of batting last. It would just be a little easier to schedule them there because they play there in ST, but it’s not necessary by any means.
Earth wise, the death rate of COVID-19 (SARS-Co-V2) is now over 6%.
The Grapefruit League idea is simply there to appease the Yanks & BoSox. It’s got no hope whatsoever. It’s simply a matter of comparing the people traffic in & out of those ST clubs in the GL vs the Cactus League. With stay at home being lifted as the summer rolls on, securing the league gets harder. If there is MLB in 2020 the GL teams are going to have to make the trip to AZ & play there.
FLA/ZONA Midnight Double-headers with Robo Umps….BOOM!!! ;)
Play in a realigned leave based on each teams’s spring training site? I dunno, let me think about it…..I’ll call you later. I got a guy on the other line about a set of white walls…..
MLB isn’t a salary cap league were players get paid based on rev’s like the NBA, NHL, & NFL. Those players are going to get hit hard when this year’s revenue is used in the cap models. MLB has a history of strikes so I believe these owners have clauses involving the
cancellation of season. There’s already talk about players being paid based on a pro-rate
of the season. If the players want to get paid they have to play the games.
There’s no way they can keep their night life & play these games. A 9AM game in AZ means getting to the ball park at sunrise. A 6PM game in AZ means getting to the ball park at the hottest time of the day. So it’s going to be early to bed & early to rise for these spoiled guys & maybe a cool nap in between. They are going to need large fans & a lot of ice to pull this off.
the balance sucks.
Clearly outta their minds trying to play baseball this year.
California closed till May 15 and New York gezz I’m thinking June……
Would love to know how you think you’re going to play baseball this year?
For humanity and the sake of everyone’s health call it a for 2020 . Come back in 2021.
Not only for baseball but for all sports!
Have no idea why there are people on here that think the world has come to an end and that COVID 19 will take a year to pass and let’s just give up on the rest of 2020 and stay in seclusion. This virus is already showing signs of waning all around the world and I know we have to play this thing by ear on an exact date we can shake hands again or be in crowds again but that’s NOT what’s being discussed here.
We are talking about testing and keeping healthy prime of health YOUNG isolated players at a secluded facility and have them play to an empty stadium.
It’s no different than members of your own household and if one of them get’s exposed what happens to you?
This is going to happen is just a matter of how and when.
Of course there are going to be precautions.
Of course this won’t be perfect.
But neither is the guy that delivers food to your house or the mailman. Or when you go to the grocery store.
Hell no. I would rather have no baseball than make up a new league. Rivalries mean something. Start the season in July. If it is still too bad just cancel it all together.
There’s a lot of blame game going on over this pandemic. The Obama admin used 85M N95 respirators during the 2009 swine flu pandemic & didn’t bother replenishing in his 8 yrs in office. The USA has been dependant on China for that manufacturing for decades & that didn’t change until Trump ordered GM & other manufacturers to start making that & other equipment in Feb.
But the truth over COVID-19 or SARS-Co-V2 whichever name puts the fear of God in you the most, is that the world has never faced anything like this before. In late March health officials started reporting that there is a “super” group. In the 80% that get the virus & don’t suffer much from it, there is a “super” group that doesn’t suffer at all. If that group is as large as 20% then there are 350K persons who won’t pass an eye test for it. They won’t run a fever, & might not even cough. They could pass the virus to you just breathing close to you & you won’t have a clue. If you fall in the 20%
that suffer from the virus, your life might never be the same again. Severe respiratory diseases can cause inflammation that raises your risk of both heart & kidney disease. Thanks largerly to the USA the world death rate is now 6.1%, How many of the 20% do you think will be alive 10 or 20 yrs from now? That “super” group is a MAJOR league game changer for this.
So if you are MLB how do you regain the public’s confidence that they can be safe attending a game?
1) Initially restrict patrons to cars only. No adjacent car parking. A positive result requires health workers to work.
2) Surrender of keys for all potential patron drivers.
3) Instant blood tests for all potential patrons.
a) if all in car are clear, e-tickets will be purchased/processed & patrons will be escorted to tram for arrival at gate.
b) if all in car are not clear, health workers will “process” the positives. Negs can go on if they want.
Only after that system has been proven can it be expanded to those traveling to the
parks via bus or trains.
A vaccine will ONLY exempt those patrons with verifiable certification from requiring a blood test. It will not exempt the ball park from having to do instant testing on those without certification.
This is the new normal & MLB should lead the nation to both understanding & accepting it. Waiting for growth of cases to decelerate isn’t going to change anything.
American’s should get used to having their blood tested regularly to resume their typical work & play lives.
While those measures appear to be “safe” in terms of getting fans in the stands, there would be far too many logistics involved to start up.
Start with something similar to the model presented here, which gets baseball back in some “safe” form. It also buys time to refine a way to get fans in the parks for the following season. With all due respects I don’t see masks, hand sanitizer, or distancing regarding seating anywhere in your model — as I think they should be.