It has been almost three full years since the Nationals and Athletics swung a noteworthy trade that has already made a big impact and could continue to have a sizable effect in the coming seasons. Leading up to the July 2017 trade deadline, the Nationals acquired relievers Sean Doolittle and Ryan Madson in exchange for fellow reliever Blake Treinen and a pair of prospects in left-hander Jesus Luzardo and third baseman Sheldon Neuse.
It was a bold strike for the Nationals, then way ahead of their competition in the NL East but aiming to patch up a poor bullpen. Doolittle and Madson did indeed continue to put up stellar numbers after the trade, helping the Nationals to a division title. The Nats then bowed out of the playoffs in the NLDS with a five-game defeat at the hands of the Cubs, though Doolittle and Madson were effective in that series.
Unfortunately for Washington, the 2017 campaign was the last good one of Madson’s career. He pitched to a 5.28 ERA over 44 1/3 innings in their uniform in 2018 – a non-playoff effort for the team. With the Nationals mired in mediocrity in late August of that year, they traded him to the Dodgers for righty Andrew Istler. Madson’s struggles continued in LA, and he hasn’t pitched since.
Doolittle, on the other hand, remains a valuable member of Washington’s roster. The southpaw has logged a stingy 2.87 ERA with 10.47 K/9, 1.93 BB/9 and 75 saves in 83 chances across 135 innings in a Nationals uniform. The 33-year-old’s regular-season output in 2019 was somewhat underwhelming, but he made up for it by serving as an instrumental piece in helping the franchise to its first-ever World Series title in the fall. Doolittle combined for 10 1/3 frames of two-run ball in series wins over the Dodgers, Cardinals and Astros. He’ll be a National for at least one more season (if there is one), as they picked up his $6.5MM club option after last year.
Flags fly forever, so in light of Doolittle’s contributions, the Nationals would probably make this trade again. The same goes for the Athletics. Sure, Madson and Doolittle impressed when they were part of the club, but the A’s have benefited quite a bit from selling high on those two. The A’s weren’t in contention when the trade went down, and nor did they make the playoffs that year, but Treinen helped key a postseason return in 2018 with one of the greatest campaigns a reliever has ever put forth. He recorded a ridiculous 0.78 ERA with 38 saves, thereby aiding in a 97-win season for the A’s. They posted the same record en route to another postseason berth last year, though Treinen’s production fell off a cliff, and he lost his job as their closer as a result. He’s now a member of the Dodgers after the A’s non-tendered him over the winter.
While Treinen’s success in Oakland was fleeting, the team could profit from Luzardo’s presence for a long time. Nineteen years old when the trade occurred, Luzardo entered 2017 as Baseball America’s 15th-best Nationals prospect. He’s now one of the premier prospects in all of baseball (BA ranks him ninth) and someone with front-of-the-rotation upside. For Luzardo to realize that potential, though, he’ll have to stay healthy.
Luzardo’s a former Tommy John surgery patient who missed most of last season with rotator cuff and lat troubles, but the results were scintillating when he was able to pitch. He made his major league debut late in the year out of the A’s bullpen and proceeded to fire 12 innings of two-run ball with 16 strikeouts, three walks and just five hits given up. The A’s will obviously hope for that dominance to carry over when he joins their rotation.
Neuse, 25, is not an elite farmhand, but there’s still hope for him to amount to something in the bigs. He had difficulty over his first 61 MLB plate appearances last year, though he was terrific in Triple-A ball, where he batted .317/.389/.550 (126 wRC+) with 27 home runs in 560 PA. MLB.com is bullish on Neuse, rating him sixth in the A’s system and writing that he “could be a big league regular in another organization, but for now looks like a very solid super-utility type whose bat will force its way into the lineup more often than not.”
Assessing this trade now, it looks like a win-win. The Nationals would love to have Luzardo vying for a spot in their already stacked rotation, and they probably wouldn’t mind having Neuse around to push for playing time. But you can’t take away the championship Doolittle helped them win. On the other side, the A’s received an unforgettable season from Treinen and could have one or two long-term contributors in Luzardo and Neuse.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Good trade on both sides.
The amount of quality prospects that the Nats have given up trying to capture that elusive ring is insane. Their scouting, drafting, international signings and developing of these prospects is very impressive.
Free agent signings and trades take up the most headlines and get the most attention, but when you look at any championship team, you’ll find significant contributors were developed from a young age by that team. You’ll have your teams that deviate from this, but any World Series, Finals, or Super Bowl team has significant draft-and-developed contributors.
Nats got their World Series. But I think when all said is done, the Athletics will have won the trade in terms of value and on field production.
Win win
Right now just a win on the Nats side. I don’t get why people think a ring and quality production for 5-6 years is equal. Unless the As win a ring with the players they got the nats are the true winners even if the As aren’t “losers”. Same with the Chapman deal everyone loves to point out that the Yankees have glyber…the cubs have the ring and until the Yankees get one the cubs won that deal
I don’t think that’s fair. The Yankees won that trade. The cubs got Aroldis for 3-4 months. Yanks got Gleyber for 6 years. Gleybers production outweighs Aroldis’s production in literally a month, let alone 6 years.
Also, baseball is such a random sport, the A’s can have the most powerhouse team for the next 6 years and not win a title. The same is true with the current yankees.
Another point: who is to say the Nats wouldn’t have won if Doolittle isn’t on the roster. Who is to say the cubs wouldn’t have won if Aroldis wasn’t on the roster?
Another way to look at it, if the cubs don’t win the World Series in 2016, how stupid do they look? It’s so lopsided.
Plus, just as footnote to history, by all rights Chapman should only have a blown save on his Game 7 record, rather than a BS and a win. But a rain delay, and his teammates bailed him out. But that’s the way the ball bounces.
The Cubs would’ve won without Chapman. The logic here is very flawed. Chapman didn’t push them over the edge.
7 years, not 6 (since they held him down just long enough to get that 7th year… unless of course there’s no season this year, then it is sorta 6 seasons).
Wrong. Getting a ring with the acquired player caps any regret of perceived ‘surrendered value’ at most equal to the ring and almost always less than. This is especially true for a Cubs team that hadn’t won in a very long time.
#1 sure it “caps” any regret, but that is subjective. The nats and cubs got burned on these trades in terms of value.
#2 this is not “perceived” value. The yankees have already gotten more production out of Gleyber than the cubs got for Aroldis. And the Athletics almost got more production out of Neuse alone in 2019 than Doolittle gave the nats. Not even including what Treinen gave the past 2-3 years (last year offsets 2018 sort of), and Luzardos production in the 1 month he pitched meant more to the A’s than what Doolittle gave the Nats in 2019
Totally agree. Once one of the teams involved win a World Series it changes the way the trade must be looked at. Winning it all, is the whole point of playing the games, obviously.
Nationals had one of the worst bullpens until they made some late season moves. Many games Doolittle had to pitch 2 innings to get the save. They don’t even make the wild card game without him
They would’ve won without Doolittle. It was a bad trade.
Agreed. I take back when I said win win. Doolittle has a poor 2020 season
This is not true at all. Doolittle is the string that held everything together at the start of the 19 season. He was burned out in the first 3rd of the season, just to give the Nats a chance to hang in there.
Anyone who watched the Nationals all season knows this is true.
Luzardo is going to sting he has ace potential but they got a ring so it was worth it
Yeah they would’ve got it anyway. They traded better players for worse ones.
a Ring doesnt validate any move leading up to it. Doolittle was the only part of the return on last year’s team, and he alone was not worth the price the Nats paid.
How does a ring not validate it?? What do teams play for? The goal is to win the World Series period
What’s especially interesting is; we’ll get a real idea of how much the A’s benefited from the trade, because the Astros won’t be endlessly cheating in the West when baseball starts again.
Oh god the worst part of the whole scandal is posts like this
facts
The astro scandal is not going away anytime soon. Just like the black sox scandal it will be around for decades. The more astro fans denies that it didn’t help the more the scandal grows. Its a shame because now all Astro players will live with the knowledge nobody knows if they could not have won without help.
Go look what they did to the Dodgers and Kershaw in particular. I’m not a fan of either team. From an oustide perspective, the Astros won’t live it down and players such as Correa, Altuve, and Bregman that have HOF aspirations, will be effected and judged based on the known fact of cheating and the unknowns of what they would or would not have accomplished without cheating. They won’t be trusted. They lied and cheated and negatively effected other humans who were playing fair.
Blake Treinen had such an underrated 2018. There’s a legitimate case to be made that he (statistically-speaking) had a more dominant season than any other relief pitcher in the history of baseball.
wasnt everyone who watched baseball talking about him in 2018? no, he had a great year but certainly got his due for it.
Zach Britton had a much better season if you want to talk about most dominant season of all time
Very true and same goes for Dennis Eckersley in 1990 and Fernando Rodney in 2012, the two previous owners of the lowest ERA for a relief pitcher in MLB history minimum 50 innings pitched.
A trade that helps a team win a ring is ALWAYS a win. Winning the World Series is the ONLY object not winning farm system of the year.
Idiotic logic. Who says that they would’ve lost without Doolittle? It was a bad trade period.
Doolittle made absolutely no impact on winning the NL pennant. He had 1 WS save. Luzardo is not worth that.
Maybe; maybe not. Can we see why Luzardo does first? Already had a TJ and shoulder issues. Let’s look at this 3-4 years from now. It may swing in favor of A’s, cool. But noone in the Nats organization is upset right now. We can debate Doolittle’s worth to the season all we want. The flag is there and that’s what matters most.
Doolittle was actually fairly important to both the NLCS, which Hudson missed part of due to the birth of his child. And the WS where he threw 3 scoreless innings. The Nats leaned hard on the starting pitching to be sure, but Doolittle played a critical role too.
The Cardinals were never competitive in the NLCS and not hitting no matter who pitched for the Nats. Even if the squeaked out a game in Stl it would have been over in 5
If the As don’t win a World Series the nationals win the trade fairly simple in my book. Winning is what matters
That would be like saying Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, because Dilfer won the Super Bowl and Marino didn’t, but Dilfer only won one because of that historic 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense that gave up 165 points, which is the lowest in a 16 game season.
Not better but he’s more successful. His job is to win games not compile stats
Seems to me you can’t win unless you can compete…
unless the other team shows up.
As I said earlier this whole idea of winning being the only thing ignores the priniciple that those things you say don’t matter are part of building a winner…
and a Champion
Besides, how about we see Luzardo actually pitch a whole season before we make his plaque for Cooperstown.
I like win-win scenarios, even though this is a division rival.
A’s have a logjam at 2b, I’m not sure neuse gets an extended chance yet. If chapman gets injured, traded at some point, neuse is their next best ready 3b replacement. Although they could also trade neuse for another need if baretto, mateo, or someone else solidify 2nd base
First of all, the writers need to stop always saying “if there’s a season”. Nothing was cancelled, it’s April and seasons don’t get cancelled over wars so this won’t do it other.
Second, this was a win for Oakland. No evidence that the Nataly wouldn’t have won without Doolittle or the Cubs without Chapman. Both were bad trades for the Nats and Cubs.
“First of all, the writers need to stop always saying “if there’s a season”. ”
The cancellation of the season is a very real possibility. The writers here would not be good writers if they didn’t acknowledge that fact.
“Nothing was cancelled, it’s April and seasons don’t get cancelled over wars so this won’t do it other.”
If the war was taking place on American soil, you can bet your behind they’d cancel the season. Sports ceased to exist for several weeks when 9/11 happened and that was one attack with virtually no threat of anything sustained.
And before you mention WWII, that was also one attack on American soil and over 80 years ago.
A modern war on American soil would destroy sports.
There was plenty of tension about being in crowds after 9/11. Look at videos on the atmosphere in NY for the World Series. Alaska was attacked in WW2 so thats two battles on American soil and we didn’t know what was possible.
You cannot compare this to a war. Totally different situation. Not sure where you were after 9/11 but there was tension.
And if you don’t like writers saying that…guess what don’t read it.
My replies ended up on yours rct….apologize…meant for the truth.
The truth – if there is a season. You are like the last dawg just getting in and the race is tomorrow.
How is baseball not an if ?
The thing you have to understand about thetruth is he’s a 25-year-old know-it-all. There’s little difference between a 25-year-old-know-it-all and a 15 year-old-know-it-all. The main difference it that the 25 year-old should know better. But thetruth doesn’t. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He may never know what he doesn’t know. He actually thinks he knows it all. He literally thinks he’s the mouth of truth. He thinks his know-it-all “common sense” as he calls it IS truth. There’s no self-awareness or humility whatsoever. He will never utter a word conditionally or with uncertainty or self-consciousness. It’s breathtaking.
The only goal is to win a WS. That’s it. You can’t say that things might/might not have played out differently if the trade was made or not. Value is only relevant when putting together a team to WIN a WS. The end
Couldn’t agree more I don’t get why people think 6 years of playing for a team is more valuable than winning. You don’t play the game to be a good team you play to be the best team. Winning the WS is the goal and if one side wins and the other doesn’t the side who won wins the trade
I don’t think Athletics lose if they don’t win the WS. But you definitely are winners of any trade that results in a WS
Always interesting to look back at trades that helped a team win a World Series. The other, being Oakland, still trying to figure things out.
2017 was the same year Verlander was dealt to Houston. Without Verlander the Astros don’t win the World Series.
Blue Jays traded for David Cone and gave up a young prospect named Jeff Kent. Roberto Alomar was at 2B. The only way Kent would have played is at 3B. Without Cone the Jays probably don’t win the World Series. The following year they gave up Steve Karsay for Rickey Henderson. Karsay could have been the Jays closer in the 90’s, but that move didn’t backfire.
Curt Schilling, Arizona back in 2000. We can’t remember who he was traded for without looking it up. Without Schilling, Zona does not win in 2001.
Travis Lee and Omar Daal(I think), I cant remember the other pieces.
Padilla was part of the trade too. That was the first name I could remember.
I take umbrage to the idea that the only thing that matters is the current World Series Title and that every 29 teams have a meaningless season. The arguments about the value of the trade on this thread are extensions of that idea.
First point is that WIn means different things to people in either side of this divide. But I think we could all agree that a Trade that makes a team better is a win. The idea that a team that improves but does not win a ring that year is a loss is pretty ludicrous.
Second point is the farm system vs established players. This is a more subtle point of evaluation.. In the case of Luzardo’s value being too much we just wont know until it is a moot point. But the GMs don’t have that luxury.
THe third point is time. As I hinted above trades may and often do, favor one team early in the career of the players involved but even out or favor the other team as time passes.
Finally this is not a zero sum evaluation. It is not a one team or the other choice. Both teams can and should win their trades. otherwise it defeats the purpose.
In this case I believe both teams were successful in acquiring the services they were seeking
IRt to who wins and loses these trades, the side surrendering the prospects almost always loses relative to WAR. Even if that star pitching prospect only turns out to be a consistent 7th inning RP, his 6-year WAR will be higher than a Machado 2-month WAR.
Past that, Madson reminds me of two things.
The first is the monster extension he almost signed with Philly, before Papelbon snuck in and took it away, and Madson was out for the next three years.
And, of course, he was a key figure in Roberts inexplicable decision to yank Hill from his WS game against the RS. Without that, the series likely would’ve been tied 2-2.
The Nationals, and specifically Rizzo, know very well that they are trading away good prospects to try and win. Sure they paid a lot for Doolittle and Eaton, but they are being aggressive and they won. Keep in mind they also traded for Trea Turner / Joe Ross and aren’t parting with guys like Soto and Robles. I’m happy Oakland got good players. I’m a Nats fan. It’s not like the Phillies have those guys. Plus, when teams get good players in trades they are more likely to do positive business in the future. Do the Nats look like suckers looking at Giolito and Luzardo? Hardly. They won and they still have a very good team. Also, their farm system may be good in a long term sense. They have a lot of quality teenage prospects. All that said, the A’s potentially got something very special with Luzardo. Do I want him back? Yes.
Doolittle was loved among A’s fans, especially on social media and his story going from hotshot 1b prospect, getting injured then skyrocketing through minors after he converted to pitching. While he was great here he also was injury prone and its hard for me to forget he was right in the middle of multiple playoff bullpen blowups vs tigers and royals. Of course I’m used to heartbreaking playoff failures as an A’s fan during Beane era
Oakland got
An elite season and a half (118 IP) from a closer
An ace/perennial Cy Young top 10 vote getter
A potential everyday INF (or trade piece)
For
64 innings of a mediocre Ryan Madson
An elite closer on a title-winner (135 IP)
It’s win-win, but the amount of value the A’s got will far outplay what they gave up.