The Nationals made their long-awaited strike for bullpen help, acquiring relievers Sean Doolittle and Ryan Madson from the Athletics, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal reports (Twitter links). Right-hander Blake Treinen, minor league left-hander Jesus Luzardo and minor league third baseman Sheldon Neuse are headed to Oakland. The Nats have officially announced the move, adding that Joe Ross has been transferred to the 60-day DL to create roster space.
The trade ends months of speculation about how Washington would address its struggling bullpen, which sits last in baseball with a cumulative 5.34 ERA and -0.9 fWAR. The Nats were linked in trade rumors to seemingly every available reliever in the sport and finally settled on a familiar trade partner in Oakland. Rosenthal reported yesterday that the Nationals were looking to add both Doolittle and Madson from the A’s in a single deal. Both Madson and Doolittle have closing experience and either could slide right into Washington’s open ninth-inning role, though the club could also alternate between the two depending on how matchups favor the right-handed Madson or the left-handed Doolittle.
The Nats are undoubtedly very familiar with Madson from his years pitching for the Phillies in the NL East, though that almost seems like another career for the 36-year-old, who missed all of 2012-14 due to injury before resurfacing as a shutdown reliever for the 2015 World Series champion Royals. Madson parlayed that comeback year into a three-year, $22MM deal with the A’s and has performed well in Oakland, posting a 3.03 ERA, 7.6 K/9 and 3.38 K/BB rate in 104 IP wearing in the green-and-gold.
Drafted 41st overall by the A’s in 2007, Doolittle has been a staple of the A’s bullpen for the last six seasons, with a 3.09 ERA, 10.7 K/9 and a sterling 6.38 K/BB rate over his 253 career innings. He has run into a bit of trouble with home runs over the last two seasons, which could hint at an issue as he moves from the Coliseum to a more hitter-friendly venue in Nationals Park.
Doolittle is owed roughly $1MM more this season and $4.35MM in 2018, as per an early-career extension signed with the Athletics in April 2014. The Nationals also hold club options on Doolittle for 2019 ($6MM, $500K buyout) and 2020 ($6.5MM, $500K buyout), making him an affordable long-term answer in their bullpen. Between both Doolittle and Madson, the Nats have addressed their pen both now and in the future with the trade.
Rosenthal reports that no money will change hands in the trade, so the Nationals will fully absorb the Madson and Doolittle contracts. The Nats will therefore add $11.85MM in payroll next season, though some money will come off the books with the likes of Jayson Werth, Joe Blanton, Oliver Perez and Stephen Drew hitting free agency (though Bryce Harper and Daniel Murphy are due hefty raises and will eat up almost $15MM of that open money).
Treinen was part of another Oakland/Washington deal back in January 2013 when the then-Athletics prospect was dealt to the Nats as part of the three-team deal with the Mariners that saw John Jaso go to the A’s, Mike Morse to Seattle and A.J. Cole to the Nationals. Armed with both a 96mph-fastball and an ability to keep the ball out of the air (62.2% career ground-ball rate), Treinen put up good numbers for the Nats in 2014-16 before running into problems this season. Treinen has a 5.73 ERA over 37 2/3 innings, though a bloated .381 BABIP is partially to blame — Treinen’s ERA predictors (3.75 FIP, 4.09 xFIP, 3.75 SIERA) are much more forgiving of his performance.
The righty will only be arb-eligible for the first time this coming winter, so the Athletics have acquired a big arm under team control through the 2020 season. Santiago Casilla is likely to be Oakland’s primary ninth-inning option in the short term, though Treinen surely projects as a potential closer of the future for the A’s, and could conceivably audition in the role before this season is out.
Luzardo and Neuse were respectively rated 15th and 17th by the Baseball America Prospect Handbook’s preseason ranking of the top 30 prospects in the Nationals’ system. Luzardo is a hard-throwing 19-year-old who was a third-round pick for Washington in the 2016 draft, despite undergoing Tommy John surgery in March 2016. He quite possibly would’ve been taken earlier in the draft were it not for that surgery, and Luzardo has only just begun his pro career, with three starts this season for the Nationals’ rookie league team.
Neuse was a second-round pick in 2016, and is hitting .291/.349/.469 with nine home runs over 321 A-ball plate appearances this year. Neuse is described by the BA Handbook as possessing average power potential, with “a short, compact swing” that allows him to hit to all fields.
Whoa.
you said it brother!
Oh dang this is interesting
Hope the prospects aren’t anything major
It’s the A’s they won’t be. Trust me
yea, the As dont have a 15 year track record or anything….
Exactly.
Just some more prospects to groom and then peddle away in the next sell off
Track record of what? Losing?
Davis, Barreto, Graveman, Reddick, Alonso, Donaldson, Manea, Semien, Blackburn, Vogt off the top of my head. I’d say they do just fine in trades
I’m an A’s fan. I know the names. I’m just not a homer.
Also did you really use Vogt, Blackburn, Graveman, Alonso as your proof? Stellar group. What did they give up to get this crop of All Stars?
I know you’re being sarcastic but Vogt and Alonso have 3 all star appearances between them and graveman was doing really well before he got injured
A MLB pitcher that was the closer to start the season and 2 of the Nats top 10 prospects.
What ranking is that? The article
Says 15th and 17th?
And neither cracked the A’s
Top 10 currently and it’s not like they are a stacked minor league system
I saw this now, MAN, this is honestly comical LOLOLOL
Second and third round picks from last year. In A ball and GCL respectively.
Hope treinen can pitch better in oakland
I wonder who the other two are. I bet both are top 15 in Washington system
Neuse is #6 and Lazardo is #10 per MLB.com. Treinen was pretty good up until this season but nothing seems to be going right in their bullpen this year
Per this article 15th and 17th?
You obviously haven’t followed the A’s trading habits over the last 10 years. They won’t be
Neuse is 6th and Luzardo is their 10th.
The prospects better be decent as this 29 year old Blake character doesn’t look like much. Shaping up to be the typical A’s trade???
Treinen was a throw-in just to fill one of the holes in the A’s pen. The real trade was for the prospects.
Treinen has a 98 mph slider. The results haven’t been pretty, but almost every advance stat FIP, SIERA, etc. think he’s much better.
Chapman couldn’t throw a slider at 98 miles an hour.
Haha, yeah that would be ridiculous. I think he must have meant sinker.
If you watch Treinen, you’d think he’s throwing a wiffle ball at 96-98mph. His slider breaks down hard like a curveball, but it’s definitely a slider. The problem is, he lost some command this year, so the strikes that he does throw, are usually 3-0, or 3-1 when the hitters are ready to tee off.
Lonechicken, you’re right. Treinen has a wicked slider. His problem is location. When anything end up in the middle of the plate it gains souvenir status quickly in the form of a 400+ foot mistake. He’s made a lot of them this season. The problem is, I would rather have seen him improve his location issues on the p-nats rather than being traded. Also, I think the Nats bullpen would do well to add a knuckleballer. Some teams just can’t hit that junk! And Albers should have gone before Ross.
Ross got tommy john and is done for the season
Wonder who the A’s go with at closer if casilla is dealt now.
Treinen who they just acquired or dull
Maybe this will fix the nats bullpen problems
They’ll both need Tommy John when Dusty gets done with them.
Lol! Facts
Lol dude, get over Dusty. Kerry Wood had tommy john before dusty even got to Chicago, and both him and Mark Prior never pitched more than 211 innings when Dusty was there. Aren’t #1’s and #2’s supposed to be able to throw at least 200 innings? Or is it Dusty’s fault for expecting the norm out of top starting pitchers on a competitive team? Hindsight is 20-20 and your homeboy’s were just injury prone pitchers. Should the cubs fire maddon for letting Hendricks throw 200+ last year?? He sucks this year its obviously maddens fault huh?
Wow pretty ignorant statement. A 22 year old throwing 211 innings after never throwing more than 160 in a season. An over 50 innings jump. He had over 10 starts of 130 pitches. Again a 22 year old not a 6 year veteran with multiple 200 innings seasons under his belt. Hendricks has had a steady build up of innings over the past 4 seasons and he was 26 last year. About a bad of analogy to try and prove point as you could pick up. I could tear up his Kerry Wood usage as well. Dusty over used both pitchers plain and simple. Only a chode would argue agains this….
Kerry Wood, the day after he was drafted, started both ends of a high-school double-header, throwing over 200 pitches. It’s safe to say he was well on his way to breaking down no matter who managed him.
This idea about increasing a pitcher’s innings’ total in tiny increments is new to baseball, and has nothing to do with pitchers breaking down. Pitchers today break down far more often than before for two reasons:
1) Every pitchers tries to throw every pitch…fastball, breaking ball, changeup, etc….at maximum velocity/effort. They use every ounce of energy they have to throw the baseball instead of learning how to pitch and use their arms effectively.
2) People are weaker today than in the past. Sure, you can argue that today’s players can benchpress much more weight than ever before, and score off the charts on specific drills and whatnot, but people (and ballplayers) from decades passed were stronger they had to do more in their everyday lives than most of us can ever imagine. Their overall bodies were stronger, more durable, and built to withstand life’s grind. Today most people choose an escalator/elevator instead of walking up stairs, drive everywhere they go, and get all their needed supplies and things manufactured. People are just weaker overall, which has led to dramatic increases in injuries.
You are high if you think today’s players aren’t in better shape than previous generations. Everybody is now dumber for reading your point #2. Thank you for that
So there were no escalators, elevators, or cars back then???
“people today are weaker”
what a dumb unfounded statement. ever think that players are just diagnosed more as science has gotten better and the stakes are higher?
Correct! They say back the pitchers back then pitched with broken UCL’s and they didn’t even know about it. Where the pitchers in pain? I wouldnt know. I marvel at modern medicine
They say back then*
Nice anecdotal evidence bro. None of what you said holds any water whatsoever
No, no, no. The increase in arm injuries is due to overuse/abuse in high school and college. Every organ in your body has a shelf life. Doctors look at a kid in high school and sometimes say that he looks like his arm his 30 years older due to wear and tear. Google it if you don’t believe me.
Correct. There have been elevators and escalators for the last 100 years.
What has changed is the rise of kids playing baseball exclusively and year round. Instead of playing for 3-4 months and then playing football or some other sport. Young, developing bodies are being abused from a surprisingly early age.
The difference between today’s pitchers and guys as recent as Ryan and Palmer, who worked in 4 man rotations, threw a dozen or more CGs a year, and annually exceeded 300 IP, was not that those guys didn’t have access to elevators, escalators, the cotton gin, or other labor-saving devices–it was that when the weather got cold, the stopped throwing a baseball.
An arm is not an organ lol.
Maybe he means to say your arm is an extension of your body (no pun intended) and like organs: have a shelf life and suffer the same drawbacks over exerted.
It’s been interesting with the increase in arm injuries over the years, to say the least
Innings doesnt mean much esp since youre leaving out pitch count. Doesnt matter if he pitches 5 innings if he threw 120 pitches to do so- fatigue comes from pitches thrown not innings pitched. Pitch count has more to do with arm issues than innings pitched.
Also, its not just wood and prior- homer bailey, joe ross, edison volquez and others
He didn’t leave out pitch count
Homer Bailey was injured AFTER Dusty left. How about you stop cherry picking facts and look at the whole picture. The 2012 Reds with Dusty used only 5 starters the entire season (barring 1 September DH start). Doesn’t seem like he injured pitchers much.
And even if your examples were true, Dusty has managed 22 seasons and you listed 5 names. Name me any manager with longevity that DIDN’T have 5 injured pitchers along the way.
Joe Ross? He’s been handled with kid gloves his whole career. He’s averaging 85 IP/year in his career.
It’s not just Wood and Prior – he wrecked Robb Nenn and Jason Schmidt. He mismanages his pitching staffs. He cost the Giants two World Series – 2002 and 1993 (who plays a rookie’s first game as a starter in the last game of the year where if we lose we miss the playoffs?)
I could write a book about how he is actually Satan in disguise.
The Nats fans will turn on him once he destroys Scherzer.
This is such a tired narrative. It’s not 2003 anymore. Baker has learned from his mistakes.
Dusty Baker is a tired narrative.
Wasn’t it Dusty’s motor bike that Bumgarner fell off of? And this year is not Joe Maddon’s fault, it’s a hang over from the Dusty years. In Chicago it’s always Dusty’s fault. I think Bartman was sitting in Dusty’s seats.
It’s still fun to rip on him
I won’t comment on whether Dusty blows out pitchers’ arms. I’d have to compare his performance against every other manager. Given the number of tommy John surgeries around the league, it’s hard to see that Dusty caused them a lot more than other managers did, even with all the cherry picking of examples above. Instead of talking about that, let’s talk about how lousy Dusty manages in the playoffs. He doesn’t know how to play chess. He manages in the playoffs like it’s the regular season. It’s happened on the Giants, Cubs, Reds, and Nats. But teams keep hiring him?!?
Yeah… Dusty really overworks his relievers
Yankees couldn’t give up something similar?
My thoughts exactly
Weren’t willing to, apparently.
Nahhhh I’m guessing the A’s wanted more from Yanks for obvious reasons and that’s life in the big
Finally some decent bullpen pieces
Which one is going to be the closer?
If they’re smart, Doolittle will be their closer with Madison as the 8th inning guy
My guess is, Doolittle, in the immediate future. But I won’t be shocked at all if Rizzo gets another piece.
I think the royals proved you can do some nasty things with 3 closers in your bullpen
if they’re smart, they go with a leverage approach and not silly rigid innings rules
This is Dusty Baker we’re talking about
^^
Dusty is incapable of higher level thinking like that. He can only focus on his toothpick during the game.
Too early to tell who got the best of this deal ’til we find out who the prospects are.
Do you think they should still make a run at Robertson
I wonder if Rizzo will want to take on any more money after taking Madsons contract on
I doubt it.
Nope, lets go get neshek or hand
Should? Probably not. Will? Probably. Robertson has experience as a closer in a huge market, so the spotlight wouldn’t bother him. He’s also in the midst of a pretty good season. The reason why I don’t think they should go for him is win-now teams almost always pay a significant desperation premium for difference-maker pieces. If they believe Robertson could be the difference in just a couple games in the postseason, they’ll probably pay too much for him. As a White Sox fan, though, I do hope that happens, but I’m sure they’ll offload Robertson to somebody.
As for Neshek, he’s been good, but he’s also pretty old. I’d be worried about the long grind catching up with him. When the Sox signed Robertson, though, I was upset they hadn’t gotten Neshek for much cheaper instead.
They are prospects #6 and #10 in the Nats’ system
Prospects are Neuse and Luzardo(watching Nats game)
Rizzo does it again. He instantly upgrades the back of the bullpen. Both are instant upgrades over just about every single person in the pen. They have control and the cost is very reasonable. Doolittle could probably close. But the acquisition cost in no way prevents the Nationals from making another deal for a big time name like Iglesias, or Britton. Or if they want a lesser deal Robertson.
It does help the bullpen a lot, I can put them in the nlcs right now with the rotation, I think they should look at another back end rotation piece with joe ross on the dl now,
To be fair, anything was an upgrade over how that pen has performed this year.
Both come with injury history so its a gamble theyll stay healthy if used too much, which dusty baker breaks pitchers like a bull does china.
Multiple bulls at once broke zero China. Source: Mythbusters
Nats could still be in the market for another Starting pitcher
i don’t think this is it for the nats
I agree. I still won’t be completely shocked if they go all in for Raisel Iglesias. I still think they should get Neshek as well.
Iglesias will cost them the top talent from their minor leagues. I’d take it, of course. But Rizzo would be a fool to go all in this year with Dusty behind the wheel. Dusty will still run this car into the ditch in the playoffs.
If rizzo felt that way he wouldn’t have hired dusty in the first place
What did Rizzo see in Dusty’s track record that made him think he’d win a championship in Washington? The pattern is astonishingly tight and evident.
Wow A’s got jipped. Interesting that they wanted Treinen. 3 years of team control for Treinen maybe Beane hopes to rebuild his value as a closer and trade him later on.
A’s made out pretty well here. Shed about 25 million dollars in salary and got two decent prospects. Neuse’s numbers look fairly solid, although he’s a long way away. Luzardo is only 19 and has only pitched in 3 games but gotta love a 15/0 K/Bb ratio.
Treinen started out in the A’s system. We’ve seen relievers play terrible one place then rebound in a new city. A’s are buying low on him.
Wow this trade has to burn a little since it was yesterday you (Henduland) and a few other Oakland fans were asking for top prospects for Doolittle and Madson on there own and they just traded the Nats both pitchers for a package that’s not extremely impressive!
Tough. It’s almost laughable after listening to a few of you crow over a Yankee pitcher getting hurt and demanding our farm for Gray or Alonso or a bullpen arm and now you get this trade! Thoughts Oakland Nation on today’s haul?
No one said Doolittle or Madson alone was going to yield a top prospect. I said I wanted Soto, a fringe top 100 prospect, for both of them.
Let’s look at the deal in three years. I remember when everyone thought Beane was nuts for taking on a reclamation project in Isringhausen. Being that your posts seem to reveal a Middle School level vocabulary, you probably don’t remember that trade.
Are you for real? Let me get this straight: because the A’s didn’t land elite prospects for great guy but often injured Sean Doolittle, and aging but still pretty solid Ryan Madson, that they won’t get proper value for Sonny Gray or Yonder Alonso when those two are dealt? A’s made a nice deal here, and they will get great value for Sonny and Yonder during this quick 2 1/2 year rebuild they are currently in.
That is very sound logic, are you teaching logic games for LSAT students too?
Henduland-What happened to Soto + Kieboom?????
Should not have called me names last night. I knew what I was talking about.
Never said I wanted Kieboom. You don’t remember very well, do you?
Yeah. It was Soto + Stevenson. Only slightly less hilarious
Soto is a fringe top 100 prospect. You act like he’s Mike Trout or something. Lube up the Preparation H for yourself when Rizzo trades top prospects for Zach Britton.
Don’t move the goal posts. You were WAY WRONG.
Where he’s ranked or if he gets traded going forward means nothing. The bottom line is that you thought your precious relievers were worth, HA!, Soto AND Stevenson!
I’ll be waiting with baited breath for your “Torres and Frazier for Gray” hot takes tomorrow, sweetheart.
first round playoff exit….
treinen has always done well until this season. nice change of scenery deal for him
Treinen might do very well in a large ball park and they could flip him again this time next year. His hard sinker could play in Oakland
Treinen can hit triple digits and his pitches have movement, but he walks a lot of batters, and he is known to give up many hits. Who knows, he may do better elsewhere. His stuff is good, he just never could put it together
Agreed. Watched him for years and wonder if A’s might try to convert him back into a starter, which is how he came through minors.
Wow
Haha as a braves fan i hope they suck just likethe rest of their pen does
You make me ashamed to call myself a braves fan. So ignorant
Wow, I guess that takes them out of the running for Hand. The A’s should get some interesting prospects back.
I don’t know if it takes them out of the running for Hand. Hand is on a very affordable contract and I doubt they are satisfied with their bullpen as is. I would think more than anything it takes them out of the running for Robertson
I think Houston gets him because Harris was just placed on the DL and Hand would be the perfect replacement for them while Harris is out.
They still have capital to trade for Hand and Cahill- Fedde Kieboom and Watson.
Which, the nats could put Cahill in the pen during the post season where he’s been successful which will give them 4 quality pen pieces.
Plus that leaves them Robles and Soto to go after Gray.
That’s true. I guess it’s still a good possibility then, especially since they didn’t give up really significant prospects. Also, like raz was saying, the Astros could now be a team that inquires about him.
You can say the Nats did a lot in the addition of Doolittle and Madson.
The Oakland a’s. The same old thing. Giving up like every year. Trading the best player away. Instead of building around the those players. That why there bad year after year. Why don’t.trade away there the general manager, since he can not fine the solution. Oakland the farm system for major at trade deadline.
You’re not going to build around Ryan Madson and Sean doolittle
Same old thing? Where were you during the 2012-2014 three year stretch in which the Oakland A’s made three straight postseasons while leading the AL in WINS over that span, adding two more Division Titles to their crowded trophy case (4 World Championships and 16 Division Titles for A’s in Oakland since landing there in 1968, the most out west over that span).
In fact, since Billy Beane took over, despite having no stadium and no payroll to work with, the A’s have the 9th most wins in baseball during his 20 year tenure, coupled with six division titles and 8 playoff appearances. Remarkable really. Imagine what he is going to do with a proper baseball venue and a payroll!
The A’s are in the midst of a 2 1/2 year rebuild, their first proper rebuild since the late 1990’s, which set the stage for some amazing and elite Oakland teams in the early 2000’s. These last two years for the first time since 1998-1999 that the A’s had the privilege of drafting in the Top 9, that is how consistently good they have been. They are doing this just in time for the new ballpark that is long overdue in Oakland. Stop sticking to tired and false narratives and study up on history and what is actually taking place!
Luzardo could end up being a stud
He could. He would have been rated much higher if he wasn’t so far from the majors. I was hoping to keep him. CHI wanted him too, It was obvious a lot of people were high on him. I’m sure Rizzo didn’t want to give him up but with their need, he could let someone 4 years away from the majors hold up that deal.
So an up and down sinkerballer and two top 10 prospects? Pretty good haul.
Not much ‘up’ in Treinan’s game this year other than his ERA and WHIP.
The prospects the Nationals gave up certainly have potential, though given the Nationals plethora of pitching, and having Rendon at 3B, they were quite expendable. Best of luck to Neuse and Luzardo making the big leagues in Oakland!
I would not call it a haul
I always liked Doolittle. I think he can be valuable given his stuff. He should be their CP. I wish LAD made a run at him. They need another LRP.
Notice they didn’t touch any of their top five prospects..saving some ammo for a closer?
Like a verlander & Wilson deal…….
I don’t think want to add more payroll with JV. I can see them going after Wilson and perhaps Upton (opt out). They prob don’t think werth might help them rest of the year?
Killings two birds with one stone we need good relievers and treinen SUCKS
Trienen doesn’t suck. He’s had a bad year when asked to fill a role he’d never done before. Rizzo has said every time Nats have talked trade over last few years, the trade partner asked about Treinen. So either every GM is an idiot, or …
His FIP is almost the same as last year, its his defense/luck his ERA is bad this year. He will most likely be a pretty good reliever with Oakland.
You could also argue that it was his defense/luck that made him look as good as he did last year. As you said, he has basically been the same pitcher, but he somehow outpitched his FIP by almost 1.5 runs last year. He has never been THAT good of a reliever.
That being said, this is a solid buy low move for the A’s. If his ERA bounces back to last year’s levels, I’m sure somebody will send over a couple more prospects for him next year.
True, ERA is a really stupid stat to begin with, but especially to use on a veteran who’s had a big enough sample size to show what kind of a pitcher he is. FIP isn’t great either, but in this case it really does show what he is, and his career FIP is 3.48. That’s not a bad player at all and it’s likely he will fetch good prospects next year if he’s lights out (and playing in Oakland, he might be), or who knows, the A’s kids might all be good very quickly and he can stick around for the finally opening contention window.
Wait so are Madson and Doolittle rentals?
No, Madson signed through next year, Doolittle longer
madsons under contracts next year also and doolittle is controllable through 2020
Nope. Four years of team control between them,
Ha ha. Downvoted for truth. Too kool for skool.
It’s likely because of a technicality. 1.5 for Madson and 3.5 for Doolittle. Probably not the “kool” thing though.
I live for downvotes! Hit that V yall 🙂
Read the article
A’s fans can take heart that the last time the Nats traded a reliever who wasn’t quite working out there, he turned out OK in Pittsburgh.
Having said that, looks like Rizzo got a steal here.
Nats fans who actually follow closely all knew Rivero was just getting started and would probably turn out that way. “Just gave up a future closer for this years” was thrown around a lot. Treinen potential is much lower imo. That being said i expect him to return to form next year and post a sub 3 era.
Interestingly, if i recall correctly, Pittsburgh wanted Rivero or Trienan last year. If that was the case, Rizzo let the wrong one go.
Sonny Gray I believe your up maybe Jed Lowrie or Alonso 1st but I believe it’s coming fast
Sonny Gray to the cubs or Astros , the yankees could but I don’t see them trading their top prospects they got in last years trades
I think Gray to the Astros. Cubs want him, but I think the Astros know their rotation needs a little bit of a boost to give them an edge over Boston and they already missed out on Quintana. As for the Yankees, if they’d kept playing like they were at the start of the year, maybe they’d go all in and trade some of their surplus OF prospects, but as it is, no, I think they address the issue in free agency or at next year’s deadline when they’re legit contenders.
Really like this deal as a Nationals fan… Doolittle, Madson both are putting up fantastic numbers out of the pen and can only help what’s been a dumpster fire for the Nationals this season.
Looking at the prospects they gave up, Neuse (#6 prospect on MLB.com) has a .291/.349/.469 slash line at the plate, while mlb.com profiles him as an average defender at 3B who will need to hit well to be a regular starter.
Luzardo (#10 prospect on MLB.com) has been recovering from Tommy John surgery he had last march, currently in the Rookie league, he’s put up a 1.32 era, 1.02 whip, striking out 15 batters in almost 14 IP. Luzardo is a lefty who was hitting up to 97 mph before surgery, scouts also like his changeup which has plus potential. He could move quickly up the ladder when healthy, and profiles as a 3 or 4 starter.
They got 2 good relievers for two crap players. Nats stole this one.
I wouldn’t say for two crap players at all. That’s just being ignorant to Neuse and Luzardo’s potential. However I will say that the Nationals won’t this trade pretty easily. Two well above average late inning arms for 4 years each is quite the acquisition
Madson is a FA after 2018. Doolittle is signed through 2018 with 2 option years.
Just goes to show you don’t even know your own farm system.
Neuse is a very good player. Tearing up the Sally league a year after being drafted and playing SS.
Luzardo is not only a good pitcher, he was considered the best HS lefty in 2016. Better than Jason Groome. Better than Braxton Garrett. Then he had TJ surgery in March of 2016. Nationals thought enough of him that they drafted him and paid him twice slot. Now he is back and throwing 95-96 and blowing away hitters in the GCL. He was called up to Low A Hagerstown yesterday, but that was canceled because of the trade.
Dusty got two setup men for Treinen and 2 good prospects. Nats still need a closer and the Nats gave up a very good set up man that was the closer to start the season.
Well Hahn waited to long in moving Robertson because Luzardo was the guy he was eyeing
Rangers could swing a trade for him or Tampa Bay?
Nah the Rangers aren’t buying. If anything they’ll be selling Lucroy, Darvish, Profar
I think they should be sellers but if they go on a run the next week or 2 , then they can be buyers, The rays and rangers are the two dark horse sleepers imo.
Hahn wasn’t waiting on anything, there was no deal to be had w/ the Nats. Hahn struck a pre-spring training Robertson deal for Luzardo and Ward that was vetoed at Nats ownership level. Nats ownership didn’t budge. No deal to be had.
I still think there’s a deal to be had, depending on how much salary the Sox will eat. Robertson’s had a good year. If they can’t get Britton, I think he becomes their next option. I doubt they really feel comfortable going into the playoffs with one of Doolittle and Madson as their closer. They needed a whole new pen; I think this trade was only the first deal.
A’s got fleeced if that’s all they got. Smh Are we sure Billy Beane isn’t Dave Stewart with a mask on?!
I’m not sure it was a fleecing. As a Nats fan, Jesus Luzardo really has the potential to be something special. Now it will be likely 3or4 years before he is in the majors, but he has the stuff to be really good
Relievers like Madson and Doolittle typically don’t net MLB ready talent. Lotto ticket prospects for set up men seems fair.
Should have gotten Stevenson in the deal instead of a 3B prospect is my feelings on that trade.
Who knows, the A’s may like Neuse better than Stevenson. His hit tool is certainly better. And perhaps a deal goes down soon bringing a CF prospect back for Sonny Gray. That makes Stevenson superfluous. The A’s already have Brugman as a fourth OF type.
Didn’t finish the article?!
really man…
Nats had to do it but man, that’s a lot to give up. Luzardo was one of the steals of the 2016 draft, a kid who would have easily been a high first rounder if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Still only 19. And Neuse is a polished college hitter who can play all over the OF and is probably a year or two away. Even Treinen has great stuff. And Madson’s about to turn 37 and due for major regression.
Good deal, A’s. First one in a while.
Madson has been lights out and was away from baseball for years. He’s a young 37.
Just keep Madson away from the 9th inning and you’ll be impressed. If the Nats win the Series, this was a brilliant trade. Hard to get too flamethrowing 96 mph heater relievers, one lefty and one righty, in the same deal.
How’s he a young 37? He’s already blown out his arm once.
Less miles on his arm, didn’t pitch for three years. Honestly, I’d be more worried about Doolittle blowing out his shoulder than Madson.
That’s some strange logic. Is Homer Bailey also young for his age?
2 months of Hill & Reddick for Holmes, Cotton & Montas?
2 months of Zobrist for Sean Manaea?
Beane has been crushing it in trades ever since the Donaldson debacle….until this one. This one is horrible. Doolittle and Madson would have brought in so much more separately, and closer to the deadline when contenders get desperate.
I know trading these good relievers for prospects. Should’ve tried to send them to the Long Island Ducks or whoever Jamie Moyer is pitching for.
🙁
Don’t get why the A’s wanted Treinen in the deal. Already have Hendriks who can’t get anyone out of the bullpen. Would have taken another prospect over Treinen. Relievers are fickle though. Treinen could turn it around while Doolittle or Madson implode in Washington.
The prospects are OK, Luzardo is a classic lottery ticket prospect, about what you would expect for a reliever. Neuse doesn’t have a position potentially even though he’s a couple years away. I wouldn’t be shocked if the A’s move Neuse a year from now for a player they need (pitching, OF) if he continued to play well as he advances.
The Nationals didn’t give up any top pieces and can still ad more bullpen help if they want. I think they won this trade, for now. Time will tell though.
Neuse was a shortstop in college and he has played more SS this year than 3B. He has the skills to play any or all infield positions and probably all OF positions. He is tearing up the Low A Sally League.
Luzardo just returned from the TJ surgery he had prior to the 2016 draft. He is throwing 95-96 in his first 3 starts in GCL play with 15k in 13 IP and a 1.32 ERA. The Nationals thought enough of him that they paid him $1.4 million or twice the slot. That year he was considered the best HS lefty available in the draft prior to the TJ surgery in March. Considering Jay Groome and Braxton Garrett were in that draft, that is saying something. Unless you consider all prospects a lottery ticket, Luzardo is not one.
Blake Treinen is a classic case of Dusty misusing his pitchers. He isn’t a free agent until 2021, so when he rebounds Beane will have the chance to trade him again.
Treinen 2016: 2.28 ERA / 3.62 FIP
Treinen 2017: 5.73 ERA / 3.75 FIP
He’s the same guy, but the guys behind him have not been.
wow. Just wow.
Good deal for the nats
Nats got away with robbery and Oakland get nothing that helps them in 2018. Puke.
Rizzo didn’t give up any of the top 5 guys (hope he isn’t considering trading Robles or Fedde). Leaves room to maneuver something for one of the closers that’s on the market. Unless he thinks one of Doolittle or Madson could take the job.
Both Doolittle and Madson are better in the 7th and 8th. Trust me. Now go get Robertson and you have a pretty lethal pen. Will have to give up two good prospects for him though.
Henduland – “It’ll take Soto and Stephenson”
I’m sure that’s what Beane asked for at first.
I’m pretty sure Rizzo called Beane and said “Hey remember when you owed me a favor? This is the favor.” and told him what the trade was.
When has Beane ever ripped off Rizzo?
The Gio trade stands out as sucking to me. If the A’s had kept Gio, they may have won the World Series in 2012 or 2013. Instead, they got a fifth starter in Tom Milone and an offense first Catcher who couldn’t throw in Norris.
Max Shrock trade?
Also, strongly agreed on the Gio trade.
Time to say bbb Bye BYE Beane you lucky Goofy
Trump would hire Beane to off set Session hate for LGBG community that’s all Beane is Worth he has killed The A’s hire Dave Stewart as GM/ President
I think you are having a stroke, please seek medical attention.
They gave up more than a prospect, they gave up a major league pitcher. The guy who was the closer to start the season.
Sorry, I forgot about the mediocre 29 year old reliever the A’s got back. You’re right, he was named the closer to start the season. And then he lost his job because he was god awful and had a 9+ ERA in save situations.
The package they received is significantly less valuable than a Soto/Stephenson package.
Yes the closer who sucked and lost his job. The closer who was a closer since they had no one else to close and he still could not hold his job
No player has ever done well after a trade! The A’s have never benefitted from taking another team’s trash.
Welp there goes Dodgers chance of Gray and Doolittle :/
the dodgers could still get Gray but the a’s would still want a lot
Can’t prove it by the trades the last 3 years
Gray would cost the dodgers a lot
Interesting. The Nationals give up the guy Dusty chose as his closer to start the year and their #6 and #10 prospects, but they got a minimum of one extra year of control of the often injured Doolittle and one extra year of control of the 36-year-old Madson.
Dusty gets his veterans. Doubt they will make a difference as neither is a closer and, well, its still Dusty managing that pitching staff, but for the long suffering Nats fans, I hope they stop the bleeding in the pen a bit.
Madson improves that Nationals alone as he’s been shutdown in the 8th inning for the A’s, and Doolittle’s been very shutdown and has succeeded as closer in the past and can do it again
Doubt they will make a difference? Why do people keep forgetting its been the Entire Nats bullpen that’s been horrible, not just the closer spot. This is going to make a huge difference
Baker can relax they loss nothing surprising that closer was in the majors straight trade for Doolittle would have been fair for those 3sorry A’s fan you got raped again and again for 3 years no rebuilding just a Domolition
Good. Wont have to read any more garbage about brad hand + cahil for robles
Unfortunately, you probably will still be reading those for another couple weeks.
Horrible trade for Oakland, does Rizzo have photos of Beane or something?
Like, Doolittle is elite and cheap. Madson for those 3 make sense but this is a clunker of a trade for Beane, who had been doing well in trades since the Donaldson one.
Doolittle has not been durable and Madson could fall off a cliff at any moment. I’m old enough to remember fans getting upset over Billy Taylor getting traded for Jason Isringhausen. Treinen has talent and may turn it around. The Nats got two good relievers, but both do have their warts.
This trade doesn’t look good on the A’s end right now but give it some time to be evaluated. Remember, Beane flipped Kazmir for a minor league catcher, then traded the catcher for Khris Davis. I suspect Neuse is going to be traded down the line if he rises up to AAA and plays well at 3rd. The A’s don’t need a Third Basemen.
Right, I mean the 19 year old pitcher was the Nationals #2 pitching prospect behind Fedde, but when you look at what Aroldis and Miller got, high leverage relievers have been bringing in hauls. SD asked for Gleyber Torres for Hand straight up – which obviously NYY won’t do but that’s the starting point, and its a massive, massive drop from those hauls to this.
The A’s absolutely should have gotten more for these two, and traded them somewhere else, separately. Beane must have owed Rizzo something because this makes no sense at all.
Neuse has maybe the worst body I’ve ever seen on a baseball player, he looks like a DH, but if Sandoval can do it I guess anyone can. You just hate to see this kind of trade happen. No top 5 prospects for 2 cost controlled high leverage RPs with closer experience and no players who help next year. Just horrible.
Neuse is 6 feet tall, 195 with 12 steals this year. Doesn’t sound like Pablo to me at all. And you understand the difference between Hand and the two relievers Washington got, right? Hand is dirt cheap. Doolittle and Madson are owed 25 million dollars. The prospect haul is going to be lighter because of that.
He’s got a double chin and thick everything. He might be fast but the A’s have gotten nowhere with having bad defenders everywhere, and I’m guessing Neuse isn’t a plus defender. Just more of the same, sigh.
Dude, Madson and Doolittle aren’t anywhere near Aroldis and Miller.
Doolittle is injury prone, Madson is almost 40. Something miller and Chapman had in common was healthy and young
I didn’t say they were, but they all are high leverage relievers with elite ceilings. Compare 2 months of Chapman with this return and you see a gap that shouldn’t be that wide in size.
Madson is 36 and basically didn’t pitch at all in 2012, 2013 and 2014, so his arm is only about 33.
Just stop. Comparing Doolittle or Madson to Chapman is absurd. People would be impressed if the A’s got Soto in this trade, that’s a fringe top 100 prospect. Chapman alone yielded a top 5 prospect.
Mentioning Doolittle and Madsen in the same context as Chapman and Miller..
I’m not comparing anything, learn to read and dont put words in my mouth. They all do the same job is all I’m saying. You don’t get to be a high leverage RP if you suck.
He’s playing shortstop in the minors right now so it seems Washington doesn’t think like you do about him. There are people who are in fine shape who are big bodied.
Here’s what Keith Law, ESPN’s prospect guy, has to say about Neuse.
“I don’t think he’s a shortstop in the long run, but he could play second or third, or play short well enough to be a utility infielder, with an above-average hit tool and excellent instincts on both sides of the ball. The A’s will probably send him right to High-A Stockton, a level more appropriate for his age and experience.”
Luzardo will be good and is just starting to pitch after coming back from surgery. Good results so far. And Treinen should bounce back. This is a fair trade with upside for both teams. What makes it odd is that teams have been getting fleeced for releivers recently, so ‘fair’ looks ‘horrible’ to some.
Markets fluctuate though, if the trade market values high leverage relievers, why would you settle for way less than market value?
This is like having the opportunity to upgrade to the newest iphone for free but instead buying an iphone 2 for $500.
Billy Beane isn’t the GM of the A’s.
Did I say he was? He’s the one who signs off on all the trades and makes most of them too.
GM does not = “guy who makes trades” anymore, it’s changed recently. Theo isn’t the GM of the Cubs but he makes all the moves.
Lots of Guys aren’t “GM” but are still functionally the GM. Semantics and title inflation. Sabean, Dombrowski, Beane, Friedman, Epstein all make the final calls even though they’re not “GMs” but Team Presidents.
With Joe Ross on the DL now , should they go after a back end of the rotation starter??
These would be a championship move for the Nats, if they actually had a dominant closer already. They don’t, so it’s still better luck next year.
The Nats still have the prospects to get Britton or Robertson. Then it’s Madson-Doolittle-Robertson/Britton in the 7th, 8th, 9th.
I like it–that would be a solid bullpen for the playoffs.
The only deals in which verdugo gets included in is for Britton or Gray
Good move for both teams. Washington goes the safer route with the proven commodities that aren’t just rentals. OAK grabs a couple good prospects and a young controllable reliever who had a good prior track record and upside. Seems like a win win trade as of right now.
Neuse is a really good get for Oakland. Luzardo is 4-5 years away IMO and Treinen is a nice lottery ticket who, worst case scenario, csn be non-tenderred. Overall, pretty nice move on both ends.
Look at pictures of Neuse and tell me with a straight face this man is going to play in the bigs someday.
A’s could and should have gotten a heck of a lot more for those 2.
Look at pictures of Ron Cey or Gorman Thomas and tell me those guys played in the big leagues.
Good point. I’m just bummed Stevenson wasn’t in this deal, or that Beane still can’t stop losing trades with the Nats.
Max Schrock was a pretty good steal for Scrabble.
Yeah, that’s the only one. Gio trade cost us big time and the Jaso 3-teamer wasn’t worthwhile either.
Beane is 1-3 vs Rizzo.
Stevenson and Neuse are closely ranked, the A’s internally may like Neuse better for some reason. No need to get a CF in this trade, because Gray will bring back a CF prospect.
A’s have absolutely nothing in terms of OF in the upper minors – it makes zero sense to keep bringing in INFs when they have Chapman, Barreto, Semien, Pinder, Allen etc.
Basically if Beane is making trades just to make trades, then he shouldn’t be making trades. There is no reason for him to get Neuse and a high upside 19 year old project SP for 2 quality players whose market value is sky high.
We got Derek Norris and Tommy Milone…that’s an ok haul and we made the playoffs the next 3 years with their help (Milone more in 2012). Not saying we won but chill with “that costs us big time”
Beane is more than welcome to make an offer for Jaso.
Norris was singlehandedly responsible for losing the WC game for the A’s, and if Gio was still around, Addison Russell wouldn’t have been included in the Cubs trade either. The Gio trade was maybe one of Beane’s worst.
Just because a couple guys played for the them, doesn’t mean the trade was a success. Gio’s WAR from 2012-2014 was 11.4, Norris & Milone’s was 9.7. The A’s categorically lost that trade, and it hurt them in the postseasons to come.
The A’s aren’t contending for at least two years. Madson and Doolittle don’t help the team at all. These prospects and Treinen might be pieces on a contending team, or have trade value themselves.
Hold the phone – 2 years? I thought they were supposed to contend next year? They had a chance at being good this year if Graveman and Semien and everyone else don’t get hurt.
I don’t disagree with Madson & Doolittle getting traded, this return is just super light compared with other hauls high leverage relievers have been getting. Each of them should have bought back at least a top 100 prospect and one other top 20 prospect from a farm.
It’s so crazy to think from the Nats view, Mike Morse on the wrong side of 30 coming off a meh season brought back a top 30 prospect, a top 90 prospect and Treinen.
Beane is a crazy madman with how he constructs teams, no one takes the leaps he does. Too much fiddling though. I hope Theo decides to bless Oakland some day and bring his title drought-ending talents to the Bay. Theo & Billy together at last!
Oh heck yes. The A’s gave those relievers away.
Tony Gwynn, John Kruk, Mickey Lolich. David Wells. Greg Luzinski. Prince Fielder. Cecil Fielder. Pablo Sandoval. Gaylord Perry.
Just stop with this absurd “this guy is too fat to play” nonsense. Neuse is 6-0 and 195 pounds and is playing SS in the minors and has stolen 12 bases.
As far as “giving away” these two relievers, the A’s shed 25 million dollars in payroll, which is why the prospect haul was lighter than it would have been for a guy like Hand.
Wow. The Nat’s get two useful bullpen pieces for nothing. Amazing trade!
Amazing for Nats fans / Depressing for A’s fans
Agreed. Rizzo strikes again
I like the trade and would bet Rizzo isn’t done adding. I think he trades for at least one more bullpen arm by the deadline to fix the leagues worst bullpen.
Soto + Kieboom. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
There goes the White Sox chance to get Luzardo
Hmm. Hoping Billy Beane knows more than I do. Looks like the Nationals got the best of this deal.
Anyone think they still go after Robertson? Not like Doolittle or Madson have great track records as closers or even on the health front.
Probably Britton instead, although that may cost more since it’s an intermarket trade.
Actually I’m sure they would if Sox added Derek Holland or Miguel Gonzalez to deal (since Nats need some SP depth now). Soto or Stevenson & Severino get it done for Robertson and Holland/Gonzalez IMO
In other news, that Quintana guy is pretty good for a #3 at best that struggles to get out of the 5th inning…
With a little run support, Quintana is a top 10 starting pitcher. If the Cubs get Gray (and ship Lackey to the bp), they’ll be the team to beat in the NL.
I agree with ChiSoxCity
WAR alone suggests that “Q” is a top-10 starting pitcher regardless of his run support. Finally pitching for a real contender that can throw some serious leather and bop with the best like the Cubs will go a long way to improve his deficient W-L record and diminish his MLB leading amount of no-decisions.
Good for Jose Quintana, good for the Cubs and good for the White Sox who are finally embarking on a proper rebuild that could propel them into contention sooner rather than later, just like their neighbors to the north.
The “I need to balance people overstating how good a player is by massively understating them based on cherrypicking only the bad stats” is one of the worst and common kinds of posts on here.
Q and Gray are aces whether certain fans like it or not. Gray proved it on Friday night, and Q today.
The issue is people have varying definitions of “ace”…some people think that means a top 10-15 SP to others it just means good enough to be the #1 starter on one team in the league.
Don’t think Q or Gray are top 10 starters but they are for sure good enough to be the ace on a few staffs in the league.
There’s 30 teams, ergo each team has a #1, so the top 30 SPs can all be called aces – however, some teams have more than one ace and some teams dont have one. I think a 3.5+ fWAR SP is an ace.
Now there’s aces, then there’s Kershaw, Sale and Scherzer, who are both obviously huge steps up from the Gray + Q types, who I’d rather we call them “Superaces” or “Near-locks for the HOF” types. But for now, even though theres a discrepancy between those two groups, they all get the tag, which is where fans get confused in who they think should get the “ace” tag. IMO a good pitcher is a good pitcher we shouldn’t be talking bad on guys who regularly have 3-4 fWAR just because there’s other guys putting up 6-8 fWAR.
Agreed dude.
Well the Nat’s got Robbed by the Sox now there even those : stooges shouldn’t went for Dollittlo and to get Madison got to piss the A’s fan off . It time for 2 things Beane most go and Oakland move to Las Vegas
I don’t know what you’re talking about but when did the Nats get robbed? It was only bad luck that Eaton got hurt
Yea Eaton was well on his way to making that trade look fair for the Nats.
Plus the Nats will still have 3 more years of “Spanky” to man RF when FA Bryce Harper says adios following the 2018 season. lol
The only people that thought it was a “steal” for the White Sox are ones that hadn’t seen Eaton play the last couple years. He is a very good ball player that was/is extremely underrated by a lot of people on here (pretty much the OF version of Quintana), and he was on his way to proving that for the Nats before getting injured.
Eaton is a stud (6.0 fWAR in 2016) and that trade was fair for both sides.
Nice job by the Nationals to fix their 7th & 8th inning problems. They still don’y have an experienced closer to help them in the postseason and possibly contend for a World Series. It’s now questionable that they would spend additional funds for David Robertson although it’s surprising that their ownership signed off on these two veteran relievers so I guess anything is possible. Despite the deal with the A’s, the Nats still have some prospects that would entice the White Sox in a trade for Robertson.
Maybe Ted Lerner is finally figuring out that his team’s best shot to win a title is this season and next with Bryce Harper becoming a FA following the 2018 season.
Agree that the Nats still need a closer. Not sure which arm they will target but there aren’t any elite closers available….but even a decent one would make them formidable in the playoffs.
Ok Ken Rosenthal has made this make more sense, from twitter:
“Athletics’ return from Nationals mitigated by Doolittle’s long injury history, Madson’s $7.5M salary at age 37 next season.”
“Athletics wise to get out in front of bullpen market with MIA, CWS, SD, BAL among clubs shopping relievers.”
I’m thinking with Baltimore coming out today and saying everyone in their pen is on the table, Beane got into hurry up mode. Madson is not a long term piece so he had to go, and the Nats probably wanted either both or nothing, and move onto another team to deal with.
People are acting like the Nats gave up nothing. Luzardo was a 1st rounder before he needed TJ his senior year. He’s looked great (albeit small sample size) in his first 3 starts this year. Nuese is having a solid year. They are both a few years from the majors but have solid upside. For two relievers with flaws this was a good haul for Beane. Luzardo was the prospect that the Lerners refused to trade for Robertson in the offseason so he his a sought after piece. I bet he would have been a top 4-6 prospect in the Nats system heading into next season.
This wasn’t enough
It’s a bandaid for now
For what Madson & Doolittle are when they’re at their best, and combined with the market for elite RPs was up until this point, one would have thought someone would have paid a kings ransom, but I guess from a salary dump perspective this is ok. You are right, the Nats didn’t give up nothing and Luzardo is certainly a nice project arm to have, youd rather have that guy than not. But the fact that the A’s didn’t bring in any OF (unless Nuese can move there) was disheartening, and it appears Beane isn’t targeting anything other than the best possible players, which is odd considering how the first wave of youngsters has already hit MLB – imo he should be building on them, not on the players after them. 2021 is a long time away and the young A’s are not going to be bad for too much longer..
I don’t see the Nats trading Robles or Soto for a relief pitcher. Neuse has more upside with his bat than Stephenson, and is more versatile defensively since he can play all 4 INF positions and likely corner OF. Stephenson profiles as an elite defender but my guess is Nats are holding him as a Werth replacement or trade chip for a closer.
This was basically a 25 million salary dump… Billy Beane is a brilliant Executive VP but his hands are tight (he is only a minority owner) with ownership committed to get younger, affordable players towards building the new stadium so they can supposedly lure the fans in and create the necessary revenue to expand on payroll or so the A’s brass insists…
If it was a salary dump then he’d have gotten no-names back, not the Nats #2 pitching prospect. Swap out Nuese for Stevenson or Soto and this deal is fair for both, but the Nats clearly won this trade simply by not giving up any of their top 5 prospects, they dont really care about taking on money as much as Oakland does, so that part is bunk.
Longtime lurker, first time poster. This trade motivated me to register.
A’s fan since I was a kid, and so many trades he used to make were exciting and whoa! This is the type of trade we’ve gotten used to the last few years, and in that regard this trade is fine.
I was hoping the deal was a bit more mega-style, I’d have liked to see Gray included also in order to try and land Robles. Ah well. Neuse looks like he’ll probably start getting innings across the OF right away.
As for the arms, I’ve never cared about any pitching that comes back in BB’s trades because it’s always such a gamble. In this league, you still need depth, and more depth is fine with me.
Doo, best of luck! You’re easily one of the all-time fan favorites in Oakland. You’ll be missed.