Talk of revenue losses throughout the sport has been prominent since the outset of the Covid-19 pandemic, but commissioner Rob Manfred put some more concrete numbers on the concept this week. In an interview with Barry M. Bloom for Sportico, Manfred claimed that the league’s 30 teams have amassed a collective $8.3 billion in debt and will post anywhere from $2.8 to $3.0 billion in combined operational losses.
Manfred’s comments come at a time when many clubs throughout the league have made sweeping layoffs to both business-side and baseball operations employees. The Athletic’s Alex Coffey reported last week that the A’s, for instance, are preparing to lay off upwards of 150 employees who were furloughed throughout much of the 2020 season. They’re far from the only club making such broad-ranging cuts, although Oakland certainly figures to be on the more extreme end of the spectrum.
Evan Drellich of The Athletic wrote yesterday that a league official claimed Major League Baseball’s EBITDA — earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization — showed a loss of $2.7 billion but also noted that with the league’s books closed, such numbers can’t be independently verified. A league official claimed to Drellich, perhaps more dubiously, that even under normal conditions the league would have expected $10 billion in revenue against $10.2 billion of expenses — a rather eye-opening and frankly questionable assertion when considering last year’s widely reported $10.7 billion of revenue for MLB.
In that sense, the claims put forth by Manfred and the unnamed league official(s) who spoke to Drellich on the condition of anonymity call back to the ugly standoff between MLB and the MLBPA during return-to-play negotiations, wherein the players repeatedly called for ownership to open its books and provide quantitative evidence of the extent of the damage they were facing. Detractors will surely question the veracity of the league’s figures, which Drellich notes do not account for “ancillary” revenue streams like stakes in regional sports networks.
Regardless, there’s no doubting that revenue losses felt by clubs in the absence of fans is enormous. The job cuts throughout the sport are but one way for ownership to soften the blow, but the most direct means of correcting course for owners is expected to be via club payroll. For months we’ve heard expectations of a bloated group of non-tendered players and a tepid market for free agents. To that end, Bloom notes that some club executives have already signaled that they won’t be able to commit salary to players this winter.
Some clubs will surely still spend money. The purported $2.8 to $3 billion in operating losses isn’t necessarily divided evenly among the league’s 30 clubs, and tolerance for loss varies from owner to owner (or ownership group to ownership group). Still, on a macro level it’s wise to anticipate large-scale reductions in team payrolls.
Most concerning for players, remaining club employees and the health of the sport is the potential for additional revenue losses in 2021. While the obvious hope is that fans will be back in the park for a full 162-game slate next season, that’s wholly dependent on the status of the coronavirus and the associated public health guidelines in place. To this point there’s no clear timeline on when a vaccine will be produced, approved, scaled and distributed such that clubs could expect business as usual. And while Manfred has previously taken an optimistic tone on that front, he struck a different chord in speaking with Bloom this week.
“[I]t’s going to be difficult for the industry to weather another year where we don’t have fans in the ballpark and have other limitations on how much we can’t play and how we can play,” Manfred told Bloom. “…It’s absolutely certain, I know, that we’re going to have to have conversations with the MLBPA about what 2021 is going to look like. It’s difficult to foresee a situation right now where everything’s just normal.”
Wow, this is starting to look like teams are going to be staying put with what they have across the board. Might be even more lame-duck teams than normal next year
The one thing I found out about this season is I can live without baseball. Will I come back? Will others?
Agree 100%. I watched very little baseball. But, then I am, unfortunately, a Pirate fan.
I love baseball too much to stay away, but that doesn’t mean I can’t strongly dislike Manfred for how he’s contributing to the decline of the sport. I’m a Cards fan and they were already going to have a tough time working the payroll with the Carp and Fowler contracts, so their offseason plans of not doing much probably aren’t that different from the plan that was already there
Just the opposite for me and my boys. I’m chomping at the bit to get into a stadium, crush a dog and a beer, and watch a game.
I can’t live without it
i realized there is really nothing baseball can do to push me away from the game. I am a sucker and I know it.
Too much politics ,too much racial pandering , too many spoiled millionaires acting like the world owes them something .. At 65 , after over a half century of enjoying baseball , I’m done ( didn’t even watch any of their free games this season ) . There are so many good books I want to read , so many hikes I want to take , so good staying in shape…… I dropped cable ; don’t need pro sports at all .
Bye!
No need to announce you are not watching baseball anymore because nobody cares including the owners, players and the fans.
You can live without any single form of entertainment.
I’m guessing only the top 20% of baseball fans are hardcore enough to register and post comments on a site like MLBTR! So I find a comment like “I don’t care about baseball” to be curious on a site like this (for hardcore baseball fans!) lol
This season made me realize I can’t live without baseball, but that I prefer watching the CPBL over MLB.
How did my comment about teams not spending money to fill holes turn into a debate on the whole national anthem crap? Who cares, let’s focus on the game and not the rest of the bs going on in the world. This isn’t the place for it.
Woah, but Lindor cried about the league having the money to pay them whatever. Who would have thought a season without fans, concessions, parking revenue, etc, would create billion dollar losses? Also, not defending the owners, but players were just as terrible during this whole process this year.
No they were not. The owners screwed around for the entire process instead of just saying they only wanted 60 games.
I am not defending the owners, they certainly deserve blame, but a lot of players were ignorant on the fact billions of dollars were going to be lost. Blake Snell at first was literally refusing to take any form of pay cut. Imagine working one day a week and demanding your normal five day a week salary. Both parties were to blame.
It’s a two sided monster for sure, everyone has responsibility/blame, the sad thing few talk about is the amount of employees/families that are effected by all the greed!!
You clearly don’t understand what the players were demanding and what the owners wanted. The owners wanted (to use your analogy) to cut the players hours from 5 days per week to 3 AND cut their per hour wage in half. The players were fine working less hours but wanted their per hour wage kept the same
that’s the best answer here.
The Owners screwed around? The Players wanted a guaranteed 80+ games with full salary, and they wanted it guaranteed even if the season was played or not.
This time, if you are on the players side, then you are just against the owners.
Halo11Fan, exactly when and how do the owners pay for the benefit of having monopolies? I wish my businesses were monopolies, I would have gladly paid more in payroll and served my customers better for that luxury. Owners and owner-first supporters NEVER take that into consideration. What the fans and employees deserve for the gift of a monopoly. How do they earn the exemption?
Mo, if you want to talk about monopolies, that fine. But can players form their own teams and leagues and play against other players and teams doing the same thing? Of course they can.
Anyone is free to build another league. If anyone is free to build another league, then how can it be a monopoly? Just because MLB has rules that limit the number of teams to 30 doesn’t make them a monopoly.
MLB players are literally prohibited from participating in another league by their contracts.
right on!
Halo11Fan
“But can players form their own teams and leagues and play against other players and teams doing the same thing? Of course they can. ”
We all know that is an impossibility. Even a group of billionaires would not try that undertaking. It’s plain to see that MLB owners have monopolies. They have exemptions. Pure and simple. They need to earn it with goodwill to the fans in the form of substantial payroll commitments. And since the owners get to keep the upside they need to keep the downside, especially since they refuse to open their books. Which is the other thing they owe to the fans for the exemption: open books.
Not quite. The players’ position was always that they wanted prorated salaries.
Yes, the owners delayed because they wanted fewer regular season games.
I genuinely dont understand why you expect management to not share the record profits in a very good time and then support them “needing help” when times go against them.
Im being dead serious, how you can you defend the privatize the gains, and socialize the losses to an institution with an anti-trust exemption that allows them to pay their labor below minimum wage and duck the laws that everyone else has to folow?
I can understand that sentiment. I agree they should definitely have to start sharing their books. I think the fact that bothered me is that players just seemed to try and say “hey tv deals”, and ignored all the other facets of what brings in revenue. Again, owners deserve lots of blame.
It’s not about “needing help.” It’s about a force majeure event that excuses contract performance entirely… and the two sides having the luxury of being able to mitigate each other’s losses. The players were entitled to nothing but felt very entitled.
I turn on the TV to watch the owners own. It’s the most fascinating part of the game.
Hahaha yes!
Players were not forced at gunpoint to agree to that arrangement so I dont really care how fair it is for them. If they wanted to share in profits they could have fought for that at the previous CBA negotiation, instead of fighting for first class seating, fine cuisine, and bigger spring training busses instead.
Owners were not forced at gunpoint to invest in baseball teams so I don’t really care how fair this is for them.
See how that works?
It works great except it’s not really relevant because the original comment by user bkbk is only about what the players are getting.
The point is that both sides have the right to ask for whatever they want. There is no “fair”. If one side doesn’t have something it’s because they decided for themselves that they were fine without it.
@BlueSkies You’re a Dodgers fan. You literally do turn on the TV to watch the owners own. Your team benefits from maybe the best owner investment in the game. Have some gratitude to the people investing in your joy and maybe a little less subservience to the people who are simply cashing in on it without even a hint of a service mindset.
beisbolista
So I guess we should bow low to the Waltons every day for the great gift of Wal-Mart. Because of course their intent is beneficence.
It’s funny when normal people defend billionaires…it’s very like voting against your own best interest
(“History sighs…repeats itself“)
This is absurd. Nobody waits for the camera to show owners in their box or buys an owner jersey. If the current ridiculously rich person doesn’t want to own the team, there are plenty of other ridiculously rich people that are glad to take over.
I don’t do that literally, or even figuratively. I have no need to have any “gratitude” to anyone for allowing me to be their customer and spend my money on their product, whether it’s baseball or anything else I choose to buy. The entire concept is bass ackwords. The only one who seems to be exhibiting subservience here is you.
A long time ago John Steinbeck observed that America is a nation of temporarily embarrassed millionaires (back when that was a lot of money).
And a temporarily embarassed millionaire is a poor or middle class lover of billionaires.
That’s what it boils down to Reflect! The MLBPA is nothing but a 30 headed monster, with each so called team rep negotiating for personal wants and not items that would help the good of the game, as well as the players best interest!
I also have pounded that here, time after time why exactly demand special chef’s be included into a clubhouse, those spacious, luxury busses etc u mention. Exactly why are these nonsense items so important? Do these so called team reps (most of whom are not even the best choice on each team) think owners are giving away these items without something far more important in return?
Tony Clark is a tool if he goes along with all this, which must be true and a lackey to who??
Ownership and their negotiators must be laughing themselves silly after agreeing to such silly asks each time.
Excuse me, but I bought a Magic owner’s jersey. 🙂
lol!
So did I, but it made me disappear.
Why does it not surprise me that a brain dead know nothing like beisbolista is also a billionaire bootlicker.
Did you miss the part where these figures ignore the largest source of revenue? Or the part where books are closed? How about the contradictory statements from owners the past few decades on revenues?
This is simply billionaires leveraging a pandemic to cut costs. Exactly what most every billionaire has done during this pandemic. Jeez the kool aid American’s are willing to drink…
You boys at MLBTR got to be licking your chops at this off-season. It’s going to be a crazy one filled with rumors and shocking drops and adds.
Yes it will be interesting. That being said, the MLB Communications director needs to be in the owners and players ears about not publicly complaining about revenue loss (owners) or smaller million dollar contracts (players).
…
COVID-19 has caused lives and jobs to be lost for all people and industries, so a little perspective is highly recommended.
Something to keep in mind. Even during the worst economic periods over the past 100 years ( such as the Great Depression), teams did not go bankrupt. When and if that happens, that is when fundamental change will happen. I am waiting to see what happens with Minor League Teams ( contraction, a class action lawsuit and no revenue in 2020 ( and perhaps 2021)), that might be the first domino to fall.
No no no. Owning a sports team is the ultimate flex a rich cat flex. There will be a line around the block to buy anyone who cant handle theirs.
If anything we might see an influx in younger owners in growth areas like tech and finance overnight.
It turns out inheriting a team. having the majority of your family wealth being that organization and a lack of diversification probably means you shouldnt own that team to begin with.
There is not doubt about it, in most cases, that is true. Yet that bubble is not always going to be there and in Disney’s case when they sold the team to Moreno, they lost 100+ million dollars and they had to sell the team because they could not support the losses on Disney’s books.
You can say it, but it hasn’t always been true and will not always be true.
Or, because Disney was not competent to run a baseball team, in the same way Fox was not competent to run the Dodgers. They sold the team to someone else who wasn’t competent to run it, and for his incompetence he made billions. So, there’s that.
Right, Disney had no idea what they were doing. They don’t know anything about the entertainment industry.
That’s your story? Baseball is not a cash cow. If it was, Disney would still own the team. We saw their books, there was not the necessary R.O.I. to justify owning the team.
Disney saw the Angels as one of their entertainment properties just as Fox saw the Dodgers as one of their media properties. To a limited extent they were right, but neither ownership worked because that wasn’t enough. The investment groups and hedge funds spending billions on baseball franchises aren’t doing it to entertain themselves, they are doing it for ROI. The difference is some of them at least understand that baseball is more than just an entertainment or a media property. It’s a highly specialized business that they have to know how to run. Neither Disney nor Fox did, and that is self-evident.
“It turns out inheriting a team. having the majority of your family wealth being that organization and a lack of diversification probably means you shouldnt own that team to begin with.”
Ironically that includes Hal Steinbrenner. George used to be in Shipping and I believe other enterprises. Not sure what happened to Hal, I just had it pointed out to me recently that his income came pretty much entirely from the Yankees. I haven’t independently verified that. But that would explain why he is running to duck below the luxury tax already, even after having spent a fortune for Cole, which he should have undertaken with a sense of fait accompli for committing to paying taxes.if he wanted to continue to compete in an ongoing win now mindset. Weird stuff.
The Steinbrenner’s, interestingly, are amount the least wealthy owners in the sport. Their wealth is basically based on their ownership of the Yankees. They wouldn’t realize their wealth unless they sold the team.
Anyone who doesn’t expect the owners to share the record losses, and not try to keep the record profits as much as possible, doesn’t understand how business or economics work. Likely doesn’t own anything and is uneducated.
So you’re saying greed is the way to go? Wow. Ok.
No, he’s saying that’s business.
Yep, that’s business. Sorry if you’re too narrow minded to understand it.
But if it was your business, you’d understand it.
What am I not understanding? You’re saying billionaire owners should be expected to keep the profits and pass on the losses, am I correct? That seems rather one sided to me.
If they would share the enormous profits when business is good, then yeah, sure, it’s fair to pass on the losses. When you’re out to squeeze every dime though it just seems a little unethical to me. I understand owning a baseball team probably isn’t cheap, but the simple solution is don’t buy one then. Plus how much will these owners recoup when they sell? Look at what franchises are going for. When is enough simply enough?
I hate to say it, but that’s the problem with unrestrained capitalism…there need to be rules to keep things fair.
It works a lot better for the society if more people benefit as opposed to single entities inhaling such an unbalanced amount of income/assets
Just look at the name, capital is all that matters
Well, come & take it from me then, boy.
😉
What you’re not understanding is you have no idea what it costs on an annual basis to run a pro sports team other that player salary. You look at the money coming in and the player salary going out and if it doesn’t balance then it’s because the greedy owners are pocketing the rest. What you ignore are salary of other personnel other than players, property tax, medical costs, insurance costs, stadium upkeep, travel expenses, the list goes on.
Nobody’s arguing that it takes a lot of other money to run a sports team, but player salaries are a very large part of it, as well as the most public part, so it’s naturally what people focus on. I’m still not going to feel sorry for the owners when they’ve profited practically every other year and have seen the value of their franchises skyrocket. It’s an investment, and investments carry the risk of loss. A pro sports team is one of the best investments out there. The pro-rated salaries this year were fair, but I don’t expect the players to make any concessions next year, nor should they unless we somehow have another shortened season.
I think everyone understands there are many, many expenses associated with owning a baseball franchise. Owners definitely know that when they buy the team. Just like they know they might lose money.
I’m continually astounded when the stance that “it’s just business” is used to justify any and all behavior that puts profit above all other considerations.
Appalachian I’m on the same page. I’m in an industry based on revenue splits and I loge it. The revenue is clearly listed, I know my split, and I have some great years and some lean ones.
That system only works with transparency. Owners weren’t transparent so the employer/employee dynamic remains in play. Owners get the upside of the good years but lose the ability to share the pain of down years.
That’s awesome, Halos! That’s exactly what I’m talking about, too. When you have that transparency and a true sense of team everyone is a part, and it’s better for all involved.
With MLB there is no transparency whatsoever. Manfred could sit there and claim they lost twenty billion, but the fact is we don’t know because they don’t open their books. They just want the players to eat a financial hit on MLB’s word, which is what they’re setting up for. I bet if they had made an extra billion this year though Manfred’s lips would be sealed tighter than a pickle jar.
“I hate to say it, but that’s the problem with unrestrained capitalism…there need to be rules to keep things fair.”
Why do you hate to say it? Capitalism is the way to go. It have lifted more people out of poverty than any economic system on the planet and there isn’t a close second. But capitalism needs oversight. No one with a clue wants unfettered capitalism
My guess is he’s much more pro-free ride than he actually is anti-capitalism.
😉
There is *so* much more to running a successful business than merely having capital.
Exactly. Capitalism inspires competition, innovation, multiple suppliers to ensure needs are met, and a greater path to upward mobility than any other model.
But is also inspires greed, price gouging, deceptive business practices, etc. It can’t go unchecked.
There is a very real backlash in our country in regards to private property/ownership these days. This sentiment seems to have really taken hold in sports journalism – amongst other places.
It doesn’t matter if you approach your business with integrity. Nor does it matter how much you generate for your local economy. Nor how many people you employ & how you treat them.
It’s become a very sweeping generalization that if you own a business that means you are essentially a “bad person”.
What you are neglecting to take into account is that unlike the businesses of which you speak these baseball franchises have monopolies and antitrust exemptions. The businesses you are talking about do not. Those monopoly exemptions should count for something, and that something should be a financial commitment to payroll, since they have a stranglehold on the market, but owners and owner-first supporters ALWAYS fail to acknowledge the monopoly considerations. I sure wish my businesses had been monopolies. I would gladly have given more benefits to my employees, and I gave benefits well above my competitors as it was. My main payback came not from income but when I sold the businesses.
With that mentality you could say that drug dealers do as much for their communities as “business owners” by providing jobs and bringing money into the area
Street dealers are simply responding to meet demand for their products, which is what all businesses do. The obvious difference is that their business is illegal and immoral, but the economic principles are the same.
With that mentality you could argue that drug dealers do as much for their communities by bringing in money to the area and providing jobs…
No.
I couldn’t.
Apparently – however – *you* can.
🙂
and if they paid taxes, it’d probably be made legal….. Look at weed, goes from “it’s the devil” to “giant revenue stream for the gov’t” similar to tobacco.
Then owners should handle their business like men and not use the media and skewed unbacked figures in an attempt to generate fan compassion. Want to play that card ? Open ur books.
Yet when pujols gets a huge contract and lays a duck players want their horrible play to still be compensated the exact same.
Who forced Moreno to sign Pujols to a guaranteed contract?
Right, that’s how contracts work. Do you think the owners got their money from taking less?
Moreno gave him that guaranteed money, that is on him not Pujols.
Now if Pujols put a gun to his head and theaten his family then this is a different converation.
I just don’t care if billionaires have less money. If you don’t like it, sell your team for a huge profit and stop whining.
Also, this 100% seems like posturing for the next round of collective bargaining.
So just because someone has more than you, you don’t care if they lose it? Wow, you suck at life.
Exactly DTD, jealousy
I don’t care if a billionaire loses some of their money, no. Capitalism works both ways, they don’t get to complain about the down side of the system that made them wealthy.
I hope a lot is changed. Every other sport has it figured out but baseball. Literally any team in the NFL, NBA and NHL can retain their star players, and still be able to afford fielding a competitive team around their stars. Baseball has like five markets that can throw money at stars and still stay competitive. Pretty done with LA and New York just benefiting off their large market, and other teams having to trade stars as they get close to free agency. Why would a team like Cleveland want to sign Lindor to a Mookie like contract? None of those deals ever pan out, but teams like the Dodgers and Yankees don’t care as much if they flop due to how much revenue they bring in just based on market size.
The only way to fix it is have a hard ceiling and a hard floor. Plenty of organizations that serve as AAA clubs for the rest of the league.
Equal sharing of all television contracts tossed in, might help get it done as well.
Totally agree on this being posturing. I could believe they lost money this year, but if they’re going to use that as their stance, it’s totally fair for players to use all the profits they’ve made in the other years of the current CBA, as well as the increasing value of the teams, as a point on their side. I get that the owners don’t want to lose money (who would?), but I don’t find it reasonable to expect big changes in the owners’ favor because of one ridiculously unique year, especially when baseball has been doing pretty well in other years.
I don’t buy the claims by Manfred here. If these figures are true, they’d already be headed into ’20 at an operating loss. I don’t believe that for a second.
Obviously they didn’t collect as much at the gate this year. They cut a lot of expenses too, though. The math doesn’t add up.
Yep, none of what Manfred said adds up, just look at the TV money that teams make, and a lot of them are in packages. Fans didn’t get a discount in their packages. Players only got paid for the 60 games, Take the Yankees, they make close to 700 million in a normal year, and they own the Yes network, they had to pay the player about 70 million or 37 % this year, and Mandred wants me to believe they didn’t make money, no way!
while the way owners have behaved during this may not exactly reasonable given their financial power, one does have to realize that teams are a business and they arent looking to throw money away. crying poor is illogical, but saying you should be cutting costs is really just a fact. these guys own teams to make money, not for any other reason.
With the anti-trust exemption, the “other reason” owners should have for engaging in baseball business (in addition to making money), is a commitment to the local fanbase for which they have a tax-incentivized monopoly. Owners and owner-first supporters should take that into consideration, but they NEVER do. They keep insisting that they should be profit first and only, when in fact that exemption/monopoly should count for something extra, something that serves the local market, again, to offset the goodwill exemption. If they did that an recognized and accepted that obligation there would be less tanking and more fan satisfaction. The exemption would be earned.
By way of example as to what that monopoly exemption offset for the local fan base should be, I think there should be a $100-$125MM floor set on team payroll. If that means that a handful of franchises lose money every year, then so be it. Call it a hobby business for the rich and famous, an ego fling, a marketing ploy. Such things exist even for much less well-heeled business owners. Pay to play (in the sandbox). Pay for the ego boost. Pay for the fun. Pay for the monopoly. Pay for the right to be a baseball franchise owner..
DarkSide, yours is a more realistic view of the business of baseball than those who complain the owners want to keep the profits and socialize the losses. They aren’t looking to the government to absorb their losses, but players and other employees cannot expect the same compensation and employment levels as they enjoyed when teams were flush with cash.
Then exactly what are the owners doing to reciprocate for the luxury of having a monopoly and an antitrust exemption? The right to print money?
@ DarkSide830
Billionaires who own teams simply to make money are the lousy owners in this game. Those are the guys who rip apart their championship clubs so they don’t have to pay their players and want municipalities to foot the bill for stadiums that sit mostly idle for six months out of the year
I want an owner who is also a fan, who has some civic pride and wants to get the community involved in the team. Someone who is willing to invest in putting a good baseball product on the field and is willing to pay good players what the market says they’re worth. You can’t blame the players for wanting to be paid. They’ve only got so many years before they have to find a different and far less lucrative way to make a living.
So they never report their profits, just their losses.
You cut through the fog very succinctly. Well done.
Manfred is lying. The owners are scum just looking to use the pandemic as an excuse to increase profit and harm employees/now former employees. No reporting of what he says or the owners say should be permitted until they open up their books.
I believe it was Saul Alinsky who said “Never let a good crisis go to waste”. I fully expect the owners to follow that advice.
I was just wondering is the revenue from the World Series in Texas where there are a few fans. Is this given to the Texas Rangers or split up among the 30 teams.
I would think the revenue generated at the World Series in Texas should first be used to pay the staff that work the games and some form of rent to the owner of the stadium. If there is anything left over after that; it should be divided between the two teams playing; in my opinion.
I would think it’s like any regular season game. Revenue is split between both teams with a chunk going to cover the cost of using the venue. In a normal season I think the second and third place clubs in each division get some of the playoff/WS money as well. I don’t know about this year.
Lies !
Any loss would be based off projections and not actual figures lost or the owners would have not had a season. They aren’t going to host this debacle to loose 3 Billion dollars in the process. Any person with the ability to think for themself understands that.
The A’s, who are the cheapest team in baseball but no where near the poorest, are conducting business as usual.
I cannot help but smile when I read this…. it’s all how you phrase things.
The league loss a collective 8.3 billion dollars…. that “loss of revenue” is based on them expecting to make 10.5 billion so the league still brought in 2.2 billion dollars in revenue.
So the league made 2.2 billion dollars… while playing 1/3 a season so it’s still a significant loss considering but not a dire as the league is making it out to be.
Do you not understand the difference between revenue and profit? You can’t point to revenue as “making money.”
What a completely ignorant thing to get upset about. You and everyone else knew what I meant about “making money” but since you want to be stupid, “the league still brought in 2.2 billion in revenue while playing 1/3 of a season”
Or perhaps you are so dense that you actually believed that I thought they league made a 2.2 billion dollar profit?
On an unrelated note, is your moms basement warm enough for you?
For some reason, owners and executives don’t want to release some information to the wide range of people sometimes, and I seriously don’t get it. Look at this year for example – when a team doesn’t have fan revenue, and some of the players don’t want to budge on finances- one can assume… there’s gonna be a money issue. This happens a lot, and I don’t know why, but just businesses hiding something so blatantly obvious really pisses me off. I’d rather be a fan of the team, and the team be honest about “Well we are losing 100% of profits this season”… done.
If the teams opened their books the players and union would see all of the normal revenue streams and want a piece of them, especially with a new CBA needed after the conclusion of this year.
Just a team saying how much revenue they lost this year, in an exact sense, not just saying… “We lost so much money…. BE SAD FOR US” lol. I don’t need to see a team’s complete revenue stream.
Players salaries are almost irrelevant. They aren’t going to change enough in either direction to offset the impact if there are no fans. The real issue near term is for all other employees that could be let go.as that is more of a variable cost.
A breakeven to slight operating loss isn’t the end of the world for most clubs because where the money is really made is in the appreciation of value of each franchise over time. Granted, that value is going to take a hit if revenues fall for an extended period. Yet, we also know that the numbers being provided don’t take into account all revenue streams.
Want to test whether the owners are really up against it or not? Put a team up for sale and see how many bidders show up.
The owners should open their books to show just how much revenue they’re “losing”.
Exactly.
Steve Cohen (who has seen the books) is paying $2.3 billion so he can lose tons of money.
Thread made me realize teams in states that will open for business have a big advantage this year. Fans will be allowed back into games pretty much everywhere prior before CA, for example, so those clubs will have more revenue in 2021.
So why would Cohen buy the Mets knowing that they and baseball lose money in 2021? (My question is mostly rhetorical)
He bought it for $300M less than he offered to pay before, so he can take that hit in 2021 with hopes that revenues return to normal in 2022.
Seriously though, has Manfried brought one solid thing to the table to benefit the game of baseball since he began? I couldn’t imagine him watching a baseball game, even if being paid to do it.
If he keeps DH in NL for the future I would say that’s the one positive thing he’s done
@mcmillankmm, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
What’s most relevant is no one has a clue as to how the 2021 season will go, because no one knows what will happen with Covid. Will things be better? If so, when? The theaters are open again, but no studio is releasing any big budget movie to make it worth going back. I bought my wife a cruise to Alaska last Xmas, but still don’t know when it will be safe to reschedule (its all in the timing). How do you budget a MLB team when you can’t predict revenue? A TV contract means little when there are no games to broadcast.
They didn’t lose that money. They just didn’t make that money.
Yes budgeting isn’t real fake news! Businesses literally never do any budgeting for subsequent fiscal years. Manfred is lying!
There’s no debts. Come on man.
Well they aren’t the only league that lost tons of revenue and are having major effects because of it.
Doesn’t look good for the next CBA after the 2021 season….
If Americans could follow simple dimple protocols like masking up and social distancing, not that hard people, we wouldn’t be in half as bad a mess. But apparently the Constitution defends stupid selfish behavior, so we are where we are, which is nowhere. That is the problem, the whole problem, nothing to do with baseball at all.
Look up the studies on the effectiveness of masks, especially the new Danish one, and tell me all our problems are from not wearing masks.The constitution prevents people like you from imposing their will on a minority,in this case mask non-wearers, especially when there is not good reason for it.
Wow, you found a study that supports your wrong position. Good for you. I’m not imposing anything, just stating the simple fact that pathetic human behavior is costing lives. Like it always has. But by all means, defend idiots. That’s always gotten us far.
Right. That’s why nurses and doctors wear them everyday. Because they don’t work. Because the healthcare industry knows nothing…about healthcare. Wrong. As a resident in a red state that bristles at the idea of wearing masks in 90% of the state I can tell you that the cases are going UP. That’s right, seven months later and the cases are going UP. And the hospital Intensive Care Units are overwhelmed. They are retrofitting other beds to ICU’s. All because of a bunch of rednecks with no sense or common courtesy.
you are wasting your time with these people, they don’t care about others To them nurses, doctors and scientist are all part of one big conspiracy to make #45 look bad and the democrats are out to take away all their freedoms, Derp derp Derp.
What they don’t know is they suffer from Narcissistic personality disorder but unaware of this because they have Narcissistic personality disorder.
You mean the study that’s been rejected by 3 elite medical journals and blasted by multiple universities for design flaws? That Danish study?
Sure, I’ll believe that.
If you’re interested, I have a bridge to sell you.
To me, the most interesting thing remains that, while small market teams lost SOME money, big market teams (especially those that own their RSNs), lost A LOT of money. The Rays can win a world championship (which they have a decent chance of doing) or go 60-102; it really just doesn’t have that much impact. Compare that to the Red Sox, who lose GOBS of money when they produce a pathetic season like 2020.
Big tier free agents (who by their nature shop their wares to the Big Boys) are going to get less, just because of that fact. Middle tiers and lower tiers may very well go without. Somebody might, in normal times, take a shot with a Hunter Renfroe; now they won’t answer the phone when his agent calls..
And, bottom line as others have mentioned, is that revenues for 2021 are uncertain, and there’s much a greater likelihood that that uncertainty will yield negative.
Bob, when all sources of revenue are included the big market teams won’t lose big money. The small market teams are the losers when COVID hits. Without exceedingly deep pockets, the small owners will struggle losing their prime revenue sources. The Yankees and Dodgers aren’t hurting, unless making less constitutes hurting. Most of the small market teams have losses. Significant losses that will be hard to recoup. Big market teams may not have made money hand over fist like normal years but their war chest is over=flowing so the impact to them is insignificant compared to small market teams. I wouldn’t be shocked if the Yankees who spent nearly $300M (almost $100M more than any other team) ignore the 50% penalty and exceed the luxury tax again in 2021. They’ll still make money and their fans haven’t seen a ring in over 10 years. KC can’t think like that so you have the loses completely backwards in your statement. Big losses in small markets and minimal profits for the big market teams. It’s all about revenue sources and profits not the larger costs incurred by the big market teams.
I know this is overly simplistic, but I think it would be prudent to just eliminate the first 2 months of the season and go with an approximate 100 game schedule. That gives more time for a vaccine to be more widely distributed and it has the ancillary benefit of avoiding bad weather in states that deal with it, such as Chicago for ex. This way the clubs (and fans) can be more certain about what to expect. And players will know how to ready themselves and hopefully avoid a two-tiered spring training and summer camp.
Not a bad suggestion!
Two bad weather months in most of the country and generally suppressed attendance anyways. The only issue is the players make their money in the regular season so they won’t agree to that unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
They need to create a better ramp up to reduce injuries. Figure out a safe way for players to properly train over an adequate amount of time. This year was not enough time and led to quite a few injuries.
If I can still be running marathons, players should be able to play baseball. It has to be different than before, but it doesn’t have to be eliminated. Same with fans at the game. That should work if it’s done right.
I just don’t believe anything that Manfred says, and I get the feeling that I’m not the only one who feels that way.
Homers, walks and Ks couldn’t recoup the losses?
More rule changes on the horizon anyway.
Open the books! Let’s see the truth.
Cry me a river, Manfred.
Just a good tax write-off for the owners.
So they can subsidize the taxes on the profits of their other businesses.
Just team owners paying $750.00 in 2020 Federal Income Taxes.
BOO-HOO, BOO HOO, BOO HOO !!.
As someone who works in finance, there are a number of ways to make your books look worse than they really were. Write-offs / impairments of assets, settling of outstanding suits, paying bonuses early, etc., are just a few. And even if they did have a $3B loss, that’s $100M/team on average. They’ve made more than that in the past, will make more than that in the future, and part of that loss is offset by the gain in value of the franchise. Also, as the article states, this doesn’t include stakes in local media. The owners can go sob into the piles of gold in their Scrooge-McDuck-style money bins.
Count me among those who is not buying what Manfred is selling. I am sure revenues were off, and the league collectively probably did lose money. But until they open the books and are willing to show us, I won’t believe the losses are as bad as they state.
Yes, baseball is a business and these guys did not get into this game to lose money. But baseball also has an anti-trust exemption so they do have some responsibility to the public to be honest and transparent. Manfred and the owners have not done that in the past and especially through this pandemic. And I doubt they will in the future unless forced to. I fully expect that next season will not be a full 162 game season and fans will not be allowed in stadiums to full capacity through at least part of whatever season they have.. We’ll hear about further losses for 2021 and that will be used as a hammer in the CBA negotiations. Could very well affect the start of the 2022 season.
“Count me among those who is not buying what Manfred is selling.” Ok, so the count now stands at 10,484,327 to 30. Oddly, each of those 30 answered yes on our survey question of, “Do you own a MLB franchise?”
Maybe this could be a whole ‘nother article, but outside of the team’s costs themselves, how many owners are paying for (or how are they paying for) the newer ball parks around the league? I know the Twins/Minnesota Gov’t. used a county tax of around $0.03 for every $20 spent in Hennepin County, which encompasses a large part of Minneapolis and surrounding suburbs, to pay for Target Field. They were actually well ahead of schedule on paying that off, but I haven’t seen how that tax $$$ stream has been holding up. Anyway, might give someone something to write about.
Until the league opens its books they are crying fake tears.
Just the usual “poor me” media propaganda on behalf of a billionaires’ club. Until the owners open their books, all of this is one-sided drivel, aimed at screwing the players at the next CBA negotiations.
Lies. All lies.
The numbers presented mean nothing. Anytime an industry is summarized like they were by Manfred it’s to prove a point. He’s crying for the owners and it’s highly likely that there is a need for crying in some cities and no need for crying in other cities.
Let’s take the Yankees and their $300M payroll for 2020. How much of the loss is from the Yankees far exceeding the luxury tax threshold in hopes of buying a world series win like the good old days? Did the Yankees lose money in 2020? It seems unlikely with all their revenue sources. What about Kansas City? Yes, it seems like small market teams could be hurting since they have far fewer revenue sources. Since Manfred is a mouthpiece for owners, he had no reason to be specific because it would have made the inequity in baseball obvious.
Let’s face it, without a better revenue sharing system, without a more equitable set of spending limits the baseball industry will continue to be ONE team spending way more than everyone else, a half dozen teams in the second tier and the rest of the teams struggling to survive by keeping payroll down. COVID has severely impacted the last group and barely impacted the top groups. That’s what Manfred should have said.
Most owners have other businesses and the performance of those other businesses could be impacting the ability of those owners to stay solvent during COVID. Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are so used to big profits from baseball despite their spending their worst case scenario for COVID is “we didn’t make as much as usual”. While other teams will be trying to find funding for the team in 2021. That’s the inequity of baseball and is likely to be the undoing of baseball if hard times are ahead for the world related to COVID and any other global emergencies. If things clear up and the world economy bounces back then the baseball industry will bounce back and the massive profits will return to the Yankees and Dodgers and the KCs and Milwaukees of the world will go back to making profits albeit minuscule compared to the big market teams.
When ticket costs return to below $10 a seat, I will be back. Otherwise, sorry no.
I can’t stand how there’re screwing the minor leagues
This all but ensures a lockout after next season. This offseason is going to be a disaster. So many players will be non-tendered and players expecting to make $3M-$4M will have to settle for $1M or sit out the year. Even the top free agents are going to feel some pain, most likely in the length of their deals vs. AAV but MLB is heading for a cliff and there’s no net to catch it.
Manfred should bee ashamed of himself. Most of that debt is stadium debt service, MLB lost none of its TV revenue and gained $450 million in the post season revenue, MLB paid its players 40% of their money owed under their guaranteed contracts, MLB will get $2.125 billion more national TV revenue in 2021 (more than $70 million per team), and streaming & subscription TV revenues have doubled over past 2 years to more than 50 million subscribers.
My comment, asking for MLB owners to open their books first before crying “poor” is being censored? Seriously?
This blog and its increasing laughable censorship, has become a waste of time.
Did anyone notice the reception Rob Manfred got from the limited crowd in Texas after the World Series? He was booed, twice that I heard, and fairly resoundingly. He seemed genuinely taken aback. The first time he stopped speaking and waited for it to end. When it didn’t he kept going. Now if I’d been there I would not have been one of the boo-birds because I know whatever he says is coming from straight from ownership, but if I was an owner I would have to wonder if maybe I was giving the commissioner less than perfect marching orders if fans disliked him so much that they’d boo him while he was presenting the trophy to the winners of the World Series. That is definitely not a good look for the game.
There’s going to be so much negative press this offseason, and it’s unlikely the ballparks will be opened next summer. They’re hurting the game. Not killing, but hurting.
Minor League baseball may not survive. How can minor leaguers wait two years to work?
Baseball is in a tough spot. But so are alot of businesses, especially the entertainment industry. I usually stick up for the players, but it is in best side for both sides to give a little during 2021. It would be nice to see a 1 year revenue sharing income string. Both sides take a little risk. If fans are able to return sometime in 2021 to the ballparks both sides would gain extra income. If not than the owners & players both take a haircut.
The problem is the owners refuse to open up their books. Also they will not include their alternative income streams outside of their teams, which also receive revenue from the game. Think Yes Network for the Yankees, and the Cubs ownership of all the real estate around Wrigley. While both businesses (Yes / Wrigley real estate) aren’t technically MLB revenue both businesses value is substationaly inflated due to MLB revenue. The players feel they deserve some of that revenue in a honest revenue sharing. The owners will NOT share those extra revenue streams in any potential revenue sharing with the players.
I think best case scenario we can hope for in 2021 is for players & owners to agree to a profit sharing on revenues for 2021 playoffs & attendance bonuses. The off season is going to see many teams not spending. FA will get deflated contracts. Best course of action is to play the last season out before new CBA. Players accept the low 1 year contracts & play in exchange for playoff & attendance bonuses. The owners offer such bonuses to mitigate their risks and get games played and look forward to 2022 & beyond.
I don’t believe anyone is insisting on a revenue sharing model at this point. Except for the major league minimum salary, the arbitration formula and the qualified offer, salaries are set by the market, and this isn’t likely to change. The issue between the owners and players is the lack of transparency from ownership on the profitability of baseball, and a lot of what they say about profitability not passing the smell test. It’s created an atmosphere lacking in trust. I think both sides need to agree to bring in a third-party arbitrator. If they don’t they will just go around and around trading accusations.
The morning of Game 6 of an exciting World Series is when Rob Manfred decides to release this info?
What more proof do you need that Rob Manfred is terrible for baseball than that?
Lies. MLB has got to spend money on things that matter to the world, not just their pockets. The players are making enough, the owners are making enough.
Much like movie theatres people have increasingly realized taking in this form of entertainment is more enjoyable when done from home. Clean bathrooms, unlimited food and beverage at a greatly reduced cost, and more comfortable seating (to name a few perks). This year of not having movie theatres or sporting events served only to solidify what most people have already known. Now it’s time for the entertainment industry to adapt and find new sources of revenue outside of in person attendance which will not return to expected levels ever again.
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