The Blue Jays are having “active conversations” with general manager Ross Atkins about a contract extension, team president Mark Shapiro told Sportsnet.ca’s Shi Davidi. Atkins’ current deal with the Jays expires at the end of the season, Davidi writes, which means that the extension Atkins inked back in June 2019 was a two-year pact. Since Shapiro’s own recent extension runs through the 2025 season, it’s fair to speculate whether Atkins’ next contract might have a similar term length.
The Jays have a 337-371 record since Atkins was hired in the 2015-16 offseason, a tenure that began with a postseason appearance in 2016, three down years as the Jays embarked on a rebuild, and then a return to the (expanded) playoffs in 2020. With a wealth of homegrown young talent and some high-priced free agents — Hyun Jin Ryu, George Springer, Marcus Semien — on the roster, Toronto has the pieces in place to become a consistent contender, marking quite the franchise overhaul in the five-plus years of the Shapiro/Atkins regime.
More from around the AL East…
- Ji-Man Choi has been sidelined with a knee problem, and Rays manager Kevin Cash told reporters (including Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times) that “we’re preparing as if he will not be ready for us by Opening Day.” Choi was shut down for 10 days following a cortisone shot on March 13, but Cash said that the team will continue to take it easy with Choi even after that 10-day span is up, in order to prevent further re-aggravation of the knee. The ever-deep Rays have Yoshi Tsutsugo available to take Choi’s spot as the primary first baseman against right-handed pitching, while Yandy Diaz and Mike Brosseau can cover the position when a lefty is on the mound. In the likely event of Choi’s placement on the injured list, Cash wasn’t yet sure if the Rays would replace Choi on the roster with another position player, or another pitcher for additional bullpen help.
- Orioles outfielder DJ Stewart is also in danger of missing the start of the season, as a bad hamstring has kept him out of a proper Spring Training game since March 5. Stewart has been working out with the team, but manager Brandon Hyde told MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko and other media that he won’t put Stewart into a game until the outfielder is fully healthy, so “it’s becoming more and more challenging” to envision a scenario where Stewart avoids the IL. The former first-round pick has shown some solid pop over his brief MLB career, with 14 homers (and a .224/.334/.433 slash line) over 301 career plate appearances from 2018-20.
- After signing Enrique Hernandez and Marwin Gonzalez in the offseason, the Red Sox might have another super-utilityman on hand in Christian Arroyo, as manager Alex Cora told reporters (including MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo) that Arroyo had recently asked about getting some work as a left fielder. Over his 85 career big league games and 445 games in the minors, Arroyo has played a lot of third base, second base, and shortstop, but no outfield work. Adding another position surely can’t hurt Arroyo going forward, whether to carve a future niche for himself as an even more versatile player, or just as a short-term method of earning extra playing time for the Sox this year.
Speaking of the ALE, Asher Wojciechoski was injured during the Yankees-Jays game today. Has anyone heard anything on him?
No. Kind of looked like he pulled something in his side. Hopefully nothing too serious, but looks like he’s heading to the IL, not that that immediately impacts the Yankees as he had no chance of making the team. Scranton, however, looks like it’s lost a reliever to start the season.
He’s going back to the
Barney Miller show
This never gets old, Lol. Him & Harris are cracking a case even as we speak.
The TOR administrative team is doing a decent job but I would so much rather prefer if they clean house. This offseason was a total drag and there are other championship caliber managers, gm’s and presidents that can totally turn this team around.
Wtf are you talking about!?
Just showing us why they picked that username
Name one good thing that Ross Atkins has done. Both of you. Feel free to tell me why Charlie Montoyo is the manager we need and what contributions Mark Shapiro has made to the team while you’re at it.
Ross has built a pretty good team and Montoyo hasn’t exactly embarrassed himself while managing the team. Anyone in specific in mind that you’d replace them with?
Ryu signing? Springer? Good drafting and mostly good trades, I hated Ross when he came here because of not starting the rebuild properly but that was because of ownership not really his fault. But saying that I do agree Charlie isn’t a good major league manager
Ok, we agree that Charlie isn’t a good manager. What good trades has Ross made that have actually helped the team win? Any capable manager is able to choose draft picks. I don’t see any science there. I don’t mind the Springer signing but what I do mind is how that contract is terribly organized and over payed. Nothing is going to come from that contract.
Ryu signing, fine. His stats the past 3 or so season have been great, but you/we can’t expect to sign him with the intention of him carrying the entire pitching staff on his back for the full length of his contract.
I won’t be as blunt by using the word embarrassed but there have been several moments where Montoyo has shown that he isn’t the right fit.
As I mentioned in a prior post. Rick Renteria hands down. Bruce Bochy said he wasn’t done managing yet, and rumour has it he was a finalist for the White Sox gig, so there’s another, just as valuable, option.
Everyone here with similar views is saying the same thing. There’s a difference between being competitive vs. winning. This administrative team seems to be focused on being “competitive.”
Wow, as a Sox fan I could see a difference in how they’ve been playing, not like before.. Springer, Semien and Ryu are legit, Biggio/Guerrero and Buchette are 2nd gen players which will produce (and other farm talent that I don’t know much about honestly), I believe this team got much better.
If you think anyone can successfully draft, please explain how so many organizations go thru 10+ year playoff APPEARANCE droughts? Explain why so many top 10 picks never reach MLB, let alone their potential?
That’s player development measuring stick 101
Blue jays have built an insanely talented, young+MLB ready core to seriously compete with the Yankees+ Rays. Ownership has opened the purse at the right time, and they’ve added the best hitting FA of This class and also added the 2nd best arm, arguably, that was available over either of the last 2 years
1. 1 player thats drafted isn’t going to change an entire team dude. i.e. Mike Trout. Bad management. Bad decisions. Bad trades. You name it.
2. Management has absolutely nothing to do with the success of a top 10 pick. No clue what you’re talking about.
Atkins’ trades are pretty poor when you list them all out. A few wins and losses but the higher value trades tend to be big losses.
His drafting record is amazing and that’s where he’s really built this team.
I am curious what would you list as his high value trades? Injuries played a part in lowering returns .
They only 1 trade I see as really bad – The Happ trade.
The Donaldson trade netted as best as could be expected considering the injury and so little control. ( Sure he should have been moved the off season prior but we don’t know the real offers . )
Osuna- Even (a distressed asset )
I have massive issues with Happ (wrong return), Donaldson (wrong timing lead to a massive loss of value), Giles (massive loss again due to timing). Stroman is on the “don’t know yet” pile for me but it’s trending towards a good return. He had control of Donaldson and Giles but waited too long and lost value, the timing was his call and he made the same mistake twice.
Getting Grichuk is a small win and Teoscar a big win but I struggle to find other wins. Is that enough after he was given an ALCS team to tear down?
If you list all the players that Atkins has traded for they are almost universally in the “potentially a backup position player” or “maybe back-end starter/maybe reliever” buckets and those just don’t provide enough value to really impact a teams chances of contending. The only guys who might make a difference are Teoscar and SWR, I expected better returns for what resources he had to trade away.
Giles was rolling in 2019 and would have netted a nice haul until the injury bug hit. ( The Yanks pulled out at the 11th hour at the deadline ) Depressed asset in the off season that year who was worth more to the team then any return so I do not count that as a big miss. Having a crystal ball trading players prior to major injuries would be a wonderful thing.
Seeing the need to trade Donaldson and Giles didn’t need a crystal ball, neither did seeing that the return for Happ was garbage.
I’m expecting him to foresee easily foreseeable things like injury prone guys getting injuries, not that Osuna was about to lose all his value because he’s a garbage person.
The best player he got from trade is Teoscar followed by who? Maybe SWR who is 20 years old? 4th outfielder Grichuk?
I agree with Happ and holding onto Donaldson. Disagree on Giles.
2018 off season- depressed value due to performance with Astros prior to the trade.
2019 Trade deadline – Injury Yankees backed out last minute.
2019 off season depressed asset due to previous yrs injury.
The Jays likely planned on re-signing Giles if he had not been hurt in 2020.
Maybe they did plan that, maybe they didn’t. The end result is that a 95 loss team had an all-star capital-C Closer under control for two full years and got nothing in return for him. That’s a failure on the part of Atkins. He tried to trade but didn’t have a backup plan when the Yankees went a different way, that’s his responsibility to have a plan B.
He had some really good players with had current value who he tried to trade away to get more future value. I look at the amount of future value he actually ended up with and it’s not enough in my mind.
Donaldson, Happ, Giles, Stroman, a dozen(?) relievers and several middling prospects have all left the team and we have Tesocar, Grichuk, SWR & Merryweather to show for it. That’s not good enough in my opinion.
Luckily his drafting has been stellar so the trade failures aren’t as stark but they are still there and would have made the current team much, much better if he had chosen his options better.
“ Management has absolutely nothing to do with the success of a top 10 pick. No clue what you’re talking about.”
Maybe your dumbest take yet. Then how do the dodgers develop constant impact players at the end of every round for the last 8 years while the majority of the top 10 picks over the entire last decade are below replacement level career wise? Why are the Rays so successful while the Phillies are stuck at 500? You think coaching has NOTHING to do with player success? The guy on draft day is the guy who makes the majors, eh?
Phew. You have some hot takes
Dude, it is ALL player ability. What kind of planet are you living on?!
Le Grande Orangerie
LOL! Your ‘administrative team’ as you call it, has taken the garbage organization they inherited with an old-age major league team and a garbage farm system, no ST complex, no training complex, and completely turned it around. They can’t do much about the pathetic fanbase though. What did David Wells write about the fanbase? They “stink”, “cluelessly negative”.
Ok, but what does that have to do with creating a winning team though?…
“LOL” this “garbage team” that they inherited made it to Game 6 in the ALCS in 2015 and again to the ALCS the following year. All Ross and Mark have truly done is take the team to the postseason via Wild Card… in an expanded postseason format…
P.s. their scouting skills are horrible dude. You’re acting like that farm system is unrecognizable…
Do you really think the 2021 Jays are the same as the 2015 Jays? Most of the stars of 2015 team are 40-45 years old now. Cmon. That has 0 impact on building a long term winner
I’m having trouble finding exactly where I said the 2021 Jays are the same as the 2015. Help me out please.
You didn’t say that, but you did say the team they inherited “made it to Game 6 in the ALCS in 2015 and again to the ALCS the following year”.
Which is true, but those teams (especially the 2016 one) was built on aging stars (late 30’s in age). And as we saw in 2017, bad health to Tulo, Donaldson, Sanchez, and regression of Bautista highlighted how badly the team needed to get younger and rebuild. That’s not Shapiro and Atkins fault. They inherited that old, high salaried, team from AA
I do agree Montoyo hasn’t shown much as a manager. In fact there’s been more games than not where I’ve lamented his decisions to leave people (pitchers) in for too long.
But overall this regime has done a good job at turning the page on the organization. There’s tons of reasons to like the next 4-5 years of this team’s direction. We haven’t won anything of importance yet, and there are big holes to fill in the rotation (which might be done by SWR and Manoah in the next year). If it was me I’d have waited till 2022 to extend and see if we take another step this year. But overall I don’t mind the extension either.
2016- 24th ranked farm (BA)
2021 – 7th ranked (MLB) after graduating Bo/Vlad/Gurriel/Biggio in the past 2 yrs.
Seriously oof? You said he inherited a winner and all he did was make it in extended playoff formations since 2016
While ignoring he drafted and developed, or acquired, nearly every player on the 2021 jays team
Sorry you got called out buddy
Once again, any capable manager is able to pick a guys off of a piece of paper. I don’t understand what the issue is here.
Despite popular opinion north of the border, it is a deserved extension for Ross & Co.
no it isn’t a deserved extension. It takes a cashman or a dombrowski 2-3 years ro retool to win. Both Atkins and Shapiro haven’t won anything and will likely never win anything because their personal scouting skills are awful.
Agreed. The faux outrage burners are going to be fuming.
Le Grande Orangerie
If I was the owner of the Blue Jays, I wouldn’t rush into a extension quite yet. If anything, extend Atkins one more year to see if Blue Jays are legit and can fight with the Yankees of the crown of the AL East. 2020 was not a season to judge where this organization is at. Give it another year or two before committing to anyone.
PIrates you are correct in your assessment. Just watch the rotation fall apart and the Jays not making the playoffs this year.
Don’t drink the sportsnet/rogers/shapiro kool aid.
heck of a pessimist man. That team is built on offense, and seeing it every three ST games I can tell you it’s legit. Sure the rotation isn’t stellar but you can get a lot worse then most of the guys they have. I’d be shocked if any of Ray, Roark, Stripling, and perhaps even Matz struggle to rebound after effective career worst seasons after being good previously. Worst case scenario you have to fall back on the young guys, and I don’t think having Hatch, Kay, Zeuch, Pearson, Thornton, etc as reserves is terrible.
The goal is to win this year. Period. No be competitive. Not be competitive long-term. Please don’t listen to the Sportsnet/Rogers/Shapiro koolaid drivel.
It is not pessimsm, it is knowing what I am talking about. I am not wrong. I called it back when these two clowns were hired in back in 2015. Nothing has changed. They can draft and develop and build a farm system. They get outclassed in trades almost everytime. They do not know how to win or scout at the MLB level. They will try to win and fail everytime because they are not elite baseball executives. Shapiro should run a real estate company. He’d be brilliant and make a tonne but Blue Jays fans are going to see ZERO world series when he and his hires are around.
Darkside I wasn’t trying to be negative about it at all. More so saying, when GMs get extended early on during success, fade quickly. Look at Huntington, Epstein, and many many more. They have a spark of success and struggle to maintain it. Blue Jays are just beginning to surface and it’s hard to tell if Atkins can push the Blue Jays to the next level. Pitching is obviously the concern for the Blue Jays and there were a lot of options out there for them at bargain prices. Pirates had both Tallion and Musgrove that went for modest deals even Toronto could afford. There were even more options that could have helped that rotation and bullpen. Making a few moves is just laying the ground work for one season. As a Pirates fan, I seen this before. So, Atkins being extended for another year would be a good move for now. If pieces fall into place and pitching is dramatically improved, 2023 would be a great time to extend him. Then he can dismantle the team 2-3 years or continue to keep the organization competitive. It doesn’t lack offensive studs, that’s for sure. Biochette is the guy I am watching. Vlad Jr, I am on the fence with him. He is a good offensive of tool and interesting to see if Blue Jays wake up and move him to the DH role more permanently.
Le Grande Orangerie
Guy’s a complete troll. I read on a baseball blog in Canada that he’s considered the “jackass” of the internet.
“ If anything, extend Atkins one more year to see if Blue Jays are legit and can fight with the Yankees of the crown of the AL East.”
Uhhh I can tell you right now & the answer is no. Next question.
Ducky Buckin Fent
I’m not sure about that, @Riddler.
I expect the Jay’s to be an absolute pain in the behind not only this season but for the next several, as well.
They’ve a pretty good club.
You could be right duck but I think they’re overrated & their starting pitching sucks. I think they’ll fade in the 2nd half. I guess we’ll see
So many here pretend they can’t improve any more once the season starts
You do realize Ross+ co are using the same exact strategy the Cubs used? Just the Jays don’t seem poised to screw it all up by trying to cheat building codes
They drafted an elite core of hitting. They already added one great SP in the last 2 years. Who else did you want? Cole at 320m+? Bauer at 40+45 per, minimum? Probably even more for him to agree to go to Buffalo on a short term deal? Instead they added a 150M bat.
There’s no reason to expect them to stop trying to improve this club. Amazing how out of touch so many in this thread are. This jays squad isn’t just disappearing unless some major injury bad luck happens
I don’t think anybody actually believes this. They’re either trolling or can’t separate emotions from reality. They could win the division or miss the playoffs, it doesn’t change the fact that they are set up to succeed for years to come, all thanks to the moves Atkins has made.
It’s warms the cockles of my heart to see that Christian Arroyo, who’s proven he can’t play 2B, can’t play SS, and can’t play 3B, now will get the opportunity to show he can’t play LF either.
If in fact they deaden the ball, many fans are going to be disappointed when they realize that MOST of these “super utility” types are pretty horrid defensively. It’s a nice way to make a living when 37% of AB’s wind up one of the three outcomes; quite another when the ball gets put into play.
Toronto? A sub- .500 record over 5 years with that revenue? And this guy is a success? Ya, they’ll be better; whoopie ding-dong. Any high school kid could have accomplished it.
And likely wouldn’t have taken that long.
I mean, it’s a matter of standards. Anyone can “play” SS, even you or me, but the reality is even guys who are bad by MLB standards are still better then, say, most players at playing the position given they are among a relatively small group even thrown out there. Most players wouldn’t even be able to put together a .800 FLD% at these positions, so being just garden variety “bad” at them isn’t exactly terrible.
Yes, John Kruk could have played SS So could’ve Big Sloppy. Leaving aside a “house on fire scenario”, though, it isn’t really anything a competitive team does.
This is a tough game; winning 90+
games is hard. Why would you want to put a substandard fielder out there and lessen your chances?
Bob and Darkside, I’m hoping after 21, we go back to a more typical bench. To me, the league as part of the new CBA should mandate 11 pitchers, 12 on doubleheader days. Force pitchers to return to pitching instead of throwing. Also move back fences, heighten the mound and make equipment more neutral. No one has talked about the bat. Require it to be a deader type of wood, etc.
Every team in recent years was forced to find players who could play multi positions because their bench shrunk by carrying so many pitchers. In the early 70s Boston had “Super Sub” John Kennedy because he could play more than second base, his normal back up position. Left in Fenway is small in coverage but tricky and has resulted in injuries. It’s not easy. Also, carrying so many versatile players could be important if one or two are injured or get traded. Again, I’m hoping it’s magnified this year because of how many innings were thrown last year.
John Kennedy??? but do you remember George Thomas, Jerry Adair and Dalton Jones????
Oh ya, and “Big #10, Bob Tillman”.
:Bob – Love it when you name drop!!! Joy Foy, still faster to a ground ball than Devers!! Super subs are for losers like TB. Why? Because they not a choice but rather they come out of financial poverty. From a player perspective, they come out of a burning desire to make a team with less talent that typically earns a spot on a team.
Guys like Brock Holt are exceptions because he was more than just an exchangeable part, he was a cheerleader, a confidant, a fan favorite and a player who was dedicated to helping keep the spirits of better players in a place that assisted in their success. It’s never bad to have a guy like that on your roster. But 9 of them, seem like too many to me!!!
Every team is not being forced into rostering a half dozen below average versatile players,, only the teams that CHOOSE to do so are doing it. Boston as a small market mentality team with a big payroll has lost sight of it’s identity. Teams like Boston field studs at 3B, 1B CF, RF and SS. They pay for 3 elite starters and an excellent closer. Spots like one OF spot whether it’s left field in Fenway or center field in other parks are filled with low cost guys but not guys that can play 5 positions and sing, dance and juggle.
Benny was better than your average low priced guy when he broke in, then he had an average year in 2019 after 3 pretty good ones and suddenly his value disappeared. He gets hurt and has an awful short season like DOZENS of star player and he’s sent to the Siberia of baseball. Now here is the irony,, he’s replaced by a versatile far less talented player!!! So, to fix the team, we have down-graded right field significantly, left field significant and our #2 SP significantly. Unusual tactics if you ask me.
Some fans looking through the most bizarre of prisms think these are improvements. The 65 win equivalent in 2020 should have fixed that view but it didn’t. 2021’s 65 wins won’t even fix it. Their prism isn’t going to go away. They will maintain the jaded perspective until Bloom is fired. They will watch a guy sit on his hands and do nothing and call him brilliant. It’s insane, but so is giving away Mookie and Price so that makes it fashionable!!
I think the next step in the Red Sox progression to sustained mediocrity is to not put numbers on the uniform. That way nobody will be able to tell if the utility player from nowhere is playing left field or second base. All the fans will know is that the left fielder got hurt and there are 9 guys who can take his spot and be equally mediocre!! Maybe the coaching staff can create a universal swing path and stance then NOBODY will know whose at bat unless the cameras zoom in on the face.
What a great direction Bloom is taking the team. I know it motivates me to spend $1000 to go to the park and watch a game!!
I don’t think the record has anything to do with this lol. Look at where they are now compared to when he took over.
that and they were rebuilding for most of that time. Who looks at records of rebuilding teams? By that logic the Padres are still suspect.
The standards for large market/revenues teams are higher than those for small market/revenues ones. Where is it written you can’t “rebuild” properly (draft astutely, make the proper investments in the international market, hire the right people) without having a losing record for 5 years? It isn’t written anywhere because it’s a lie.
And it’s a bigger lie when the team has the capabilities the Jays have. For that team ever to finish below .500 is just gauging the fans; hard stop.
If you want me to dream about my team in terms of what they’ll be in 2025, fine; let me in for free, I’ll send you the ticket price in 2025.
Can see a place where “marwin” fits and it’s perfect.. Granny on the beverly hillbillies, chasing him around with a frying pan yelling “maarrrwwiiin!!
Agree with ur take on Arroyo. Why Bloom makes some the moves he does is beyond me. Arroyo is one and he’s got no options. Munoz and Chavis make him irrelevant. The guys he signed as relievers to MiLB deals were mostly..Bad lot. spin rate guys with no upside i can see. Schreiber, Grotz, Weber, Hall.. Only see a cpl of the MiLB FA guys with an iota of upside.. Gonsalves, maybe Simpson. Bloom seems to have this “lock” to focus in on spin rate and nothing else.
John – Bloom letting a guy who he has acquired twice try to find a value when his talent can’t is not at all unusual. Look at 3B. Devers has no defensive talent and hasn’t for 8 professional seasons. That hasn’t stopped the front office/ownership supporter of Devers from not moving him for the good of the team. It’s called nepotism. Clearly Devers is a friend to someone with power but not a relative so nepotism still fits. He’s gotten more chances than anyone I can remember to prove he can play a position he so clearly can’t. JBJ, same thing. It didn’t take 8 years to figure out he can’t hit but he was never replaced with someone who could and converted to a late inning replacement which is his skill set.
Arroyo is simply the most recent example of the huge amount of nepotism that exists in the Red Sox front office and ownership.
Sub .500 for 5 straight years? Math is not a strength for you is it? 17-18-19 is 3 yrs .
They took an aging /expensive team with a bad farm and turned it into a team with a loaded farm with young stars on the mlb team. Anyone who things otherwise is ignorant or just blinded by their dislike of Aitkens-Shapiro.
For 5 years in total, they’re sub .500. So (since you like personal attacks instead of rational discourse), you’re obviously comprehension impaired.
Tons of revenue, they own the park, they own the RSN. And they’re the only show, not only in town, but in the whole flippin’ country.
5 years? To be a possible, maybe, could-be , kind of team?. That’s an unmitigated disaster, no level of achievement at all. You can get that kind of success throwing darts at a dartboard.
And as of today (and really, today counts) they’ve accomplished absolutely nothing. Not even been relevant for 5 years. A complete catastrophe.
You do know this mgmt team took over after the 15 season and this entire thread is about the current GM being extended right? 16-Above .17-18-19 below as stated, 20 above . Not sure I am the one with the comprehension issues.
Please provide an example of any team of the last 20 yrs that built a WS winning team that did not first start with a solid young core. You do not build a winner on FA signings alone and without a strong farm to use as trade chips or replenishing the MLB roster.
The current Mgmt inherited an aging core who had massive declines and/or frequent injuries starting in 17 on top of a depleted farm.
The current Yankees team are a great example that spending money does not buy a WS – 2 Billion plus and now 11 yrs and counting without a WS appearance let alone a championship.
Do you thin k the Dodgers became perrenial contenders overnight? Go back and look at how they got to where they are today.
Please enlighten us further as too how the Jays current mgmt should have spent and spent with aging players rather then take the path they did.
“And as of today (and really, today counts)”
Well Bob Tillman 5 yrs ago today was Spring training 2016 and that year they went to the ALCS, in every rational fans book that is relevant . Want to try again?
Tell the Mariners. Or the Pirates . Or the Tigers. Or the Rangers. Or the Orioles. Or the Angels.
That it’s easy to rebuild to become a perennial winner. You’re just living in an alternative reality to think it’s easy to build a winner in MLB
I can keep going. The Marlins. The Rockies. The Phillies.
That’s nearly 1/3 of the league each spending 10s of millions of dollars annually who can’t do what you claim any adult is capable of achieving
Please. Explain the gap
Ducky Buckin Fent
I live in Minneapolis these days.
I’ve seen so many attempts to rebuild the Twins out here. They’ve definitely something going on of late. But I’ve watched multiple rebuilding attempts of theirs crash & burn.
Building a consistent winner is not merely a by-product of rebuilding.
So, in other words, you have to be competent at your job. Duh.
And you can’t compare a cash cow like Toronto with small market teams; that’s not true in any universe where the earth orbits around the sun.
Why can’t you sign Vlad if you’re stlll a contender? Why can’t you improve your development system and remain competitive. The Cards do it; the Brewers do it; the Rays do it.
And none of those teams compares to the Jays’ wealth.
So you’re not going to actually address my question? It’s not every person to ever graduate high school? Now they have to be good at their job?? So you are agreeing that Atkins knows what he’s doing?
What a concept! You got there! Proud of you Bob!
Vladimir hasn’t even had a full season yet in the majors. Not sure what more you want from him
The cardinals have been the at or near the peak of player development since Pujols was there. The rays are that benchmark today in theAL
The Brewers? Lmfao what a dumb throw in there.
The jays aren’t owned by a Steve Cohen. They’re owned by a corporation that has other assets as well. That doesn’t mean the gm is unable to build a winner. Keep digging your hole. You look dumber with every comment
Signing Atkins to another GM contract would mean another 5 years of GM incompetence and poor decision-making. thye have made 1 or 2 good decisions but 10 or 20 awful ones especially trading away players for return assets.
Watch the Phillies now that Dombrowski has taken over, it won’t be taking very long before they have a shot at winning the WS. They BlueJays never will with Shapiro and Atkins in control.
That means another 5 years of not winning. You don’t have to believe me, just watch. #bluejays #fireatkins
What poor trades? Donaldson was ownership, Sanchez was injury issues, Stroman had a good return. He made some poor moves to begin with but that’s not fully his fault as ownership wanted to try to contend despite the writing on the wall when Shatkins arrived. Jays are still technically coming out of a rebuild that started around the same time as Baltimore and Detroit would you rather have those teams/systems instead?
Le Grande Orangerie
LOL! “Poor moves” like trading Drew Hutchison, worth nothing, for Teoscar Hernandez. Why do we get to read this stupidity? M:aybe we can trade “jimmertree” for a poster in Canada who isn’t a troll.
Bro, you’re acting like that was a direct trade. Francisco Liriano was struggling just as much as Drew Hutchison during that stretch. The only thing that saved the Blue Jays in that trade was that good stretch that he had in Toronto during the first half of his tenure and then he went back to being his old self again. That trade was pure luck. They’re not the “master minds” that you’re bowing down to…
Hutch was not traded for Teoscar. It is like you purposely try to be wrong in every comment you post.
I don’t like the Springer deal. Remember I said how it’ll backfire, quickly and badly.
Building a team on offense is a great way to excite the fans…..
Until they realize that defense, pitching, and fundamental play is what gets teams to the WS.
This Jays administration doesn’t have the best record on drafting for, trading for, and developing pitchers. Their defenses are suspect in major areas. That will limit their upside.
As for the Jays competing with the Yankees……
Fine. The Yankees and Jays can stand and swing from the heels all day long, and when the ball flies over the fence the park scoreboard and home TV can put up the number of feet it traveled and the MPH. Viewers can get their fix. But what counts at the end of the game is the number of runs the team scored and the number it allowed.
The Rays went to the WS last year. This past week MLB Pipeline named them the best farm system in MLB. OK, maybe they’re wrong. But the Jays do have the best prospect in all of MLB, and their farm system – especially at the upper levels – is loaded. Furthermore, they understand and develop pitching extremely well, play defense and make great game substitutions. They have one of the best managers in MLB, as well as one of the top FO’s. They can absorb injuries due to ridiculous depth on their ML roster – particularly pitching – and more ready to come up. Their astute FO makes trades that often look questionable, but work out very well for the team. They will make the in-season trades and promotions in 2021 that will get them to the playoffs, and very probably to the WS. Their competition will be the White Sox and Twins, not the Jays and Yankees.
But they recognized defence in a major way this year multiple ways. Signing Springer is such a major boost to the outfield. Simeon also gives them a gold glove level second basemen and gives a good option if Bo has injury issues this year. Allows Biggio to man 3rd and if he can play league average D at 3rd would be a major upgrade over the black hole they had there last year. Also didn’t Lourdes almost win a gold glove this year?
Springer would be a major boost if it meant Teoscar DH’ed. It hasn’t. Upgrade no doubt with Springer. Team D is an unknown with Semien playing off SS, Bo at SS, Biggio off 2B, Teoscar always.
Bigdaddyt – That black hole at 3B is far better than Devers defensively. Just wanted you to keep things in perspective. Things could always be worse like they are in Boston!!
You’re all literally forgetting the fact that the Jays went from WS contention to 4th place in 3 consecutive seasons under Ross and Mark. I having trouble understanding why they’re popular in the states.
You seem bent on creating an alternate history to fit your narrative.
2017 Bautista and Martin fell off a cliff, Tulo could not stay on the field. Donaldson-Sanchez-Estrada all lost considerable time with injuries. So no that team in 2017 was not a WS calibre team in any rational discussion.
It took time to rid themselves of the underwater contracts and rebuild the farm.
The Jays should have started the rebuild in 17 rather then 18 but after a 16 playoff run that would have been a tough sell.
A couple of further points.
1- Who would you rather be right now? Orioles-Rangers-Orioles-Tigers or Jays?
( The first 4 teams started rebuilds before the Jays or around the same time)
2- Who built up the core of the Cleveland team that has a playoff run 16-17-18-19-20
3- How many WS appearances has Cashman made with a team that has spent over 2 billion the past 10 yrs?
Reality over fantasy .
Who’s talking about the team in 2017? I’m talking about 15/16. We’ve got Ross and Mark to thank for that 4th place finish.
15- they were not the mgmt team and 16 they went to the ALCS . No idea what you are talking about.
I don’t think you’re understanding me or getting the point here dude. We had a WS caliber team and were more than fine in 15/16. A.k.a. before Ross and Mark showed up and before they started getting involved with the team.
They show up and we place 4th in 3 consecutive seasons. I have no clue how you see any of this as an “alternate history to fit my narrative.”
Also, your “questions” literally have nothing to do with what we’re talking about here. Mike and Chris are responsible for Clevelands success over the past few seasons.
Why are you only going back 10 years with Cashman when he’s been with the Yankees since ’98?
And I don’t think you are getting my point or that of some others on here. That WS caliber team was aging and the farm was depleted to help get there. AA had not drafted well in the years leading up to it so a bad farm became even worse at the 15 deadline PRIOR to Mark and Ross coming on the scene.
17- After a Post Season Run they tried a quick reset ( The FA signings that off-season ) to keep the good times rolling. Some of the Vets of that WS caliber team had dramatic drops in performance that year that foreshadowed the end of their careers.( Bautista-Martin-Estrada ) Other key components suffered injuries ( Sanchez-Donaldson ) both of those factors prevented them from having any shot at a wildcard.
There is not a GM or President in the Majors who could have impacted the players poor performance and injuries in 17 so saying they had a WS calibre team in 15/16 that finished 4th in 17 is a very limited argument without context.
The whole point is that Mark and Ross were involved in starting the current run of the Indians. ( for those claiming that they are useless at player development and building a contender ) Also I am pointing out that massive spending alone does not ensure post season success. The Yankees since 2009 being prime examples. Cashman inherited a really good team so saying they won in 2009 has little meaning. What has he done since with all the $$ spent ? 0 Championships- 0 WS appearances.
Once again for about the 3rd time, a team needs to build around a solid young core and have a good to great farm to build a perennially competive team. Ala Dodger- Braves etc
Are you kidding me? The farm system was STACKED with AA. He hasn’t drafted well? Paxton, Sanchez, Syndergaard, Musgrove, Stroman.
I totally disagree with that comment about Mark, Ross, and the Indians.
Ok, but why go back to 2009. You’re only using WS appearances. How about playoff appearances? How about playoff AND WS appearances since Brian Cashman took over? When people think of potential WS matchups for the following year, years to come, the Yankees are always a team that comes to mind. There is a reason for that.
You do know Paxton did not sign with them right? AA had a habit of drafting unsignable HS arms and a few he signed. The only 3 that contributed to MLB were Stroman , Sanchez and Osuna . 0 position players of note other then Pillar who was nothing but pure luck. He left the farm in a weak position .
I would take the Dodgers model over the Yankees anyday.
Back to what I originally said 11 yrs and counting . How many WS appearances followed by a WS win have the Dodgers had in that time?
Seriously Ross-Mark inherited an aging pricey team with a depleted farm and some of you think that could be turned around and built into perennial contenders overnight. That is nonsense.
Overnight? It’s been FIVE YEARS dude. WAKE UP.
5 yrs ago they were heading into the 2016 season that lead to a ALCS run. That takes it to 4 yrs. 2020 They finished above .500 and made the playoffs so in REALITY it was 3 yrs . Might wanna learn to count there bucko.
Alternate reality AGAIN.
It’s 2021 dude. Might wanna learn (how) to count there “pal.”
Expanded playoff format in 2020. You can’t be serious in counting that playoff appearance.
What a joke.
If you couldn’t see a rebuild was coming, that’s on you, not anybody else. Literally any single GM brought in was going to take them from there. Again, look at the roster when they came in, and then look at it now. If you don’t see the difference between both the outlook of the team at present and in the future is exponentially better than it was when they took over, you are just intentionally looking for a reason to be upset with them.
If the trolls are out lying and coming up with alternative facts, you know the front office isn’t doing that bad of a job.
If the rebuild was coming why sign Morales to a 3-year deal?
If a rebuild was coming, why wasn’t Donaldson and many others traded in 2017?
You and the other character want to talk about alternative facts and reality over fantasy. Yet you neglect to mention the fact that the actual “rebuild” was created by Atkins. The question is whether it was done on-purpose. But revisit the 2016-17 offseason where they signed JP Howell to replace Cecil along with 3 DHs to cover two corner OF spots and then tell me “a rebuild was coming”.
Atkins’ words, he does not believe in a rebuild.
No team is going to start a rebuild the off season after making a deep play-off run. (no ownership on the planet would ok that- especial not with all the money that was still left on the Martin and Tulo contracts )
To suggest otherwise exhibits a low grade understanding of how baseball organizations are run.
Yes they should have but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Not sure who you were directing this inept comment to Markkko but you have yet to point out the actual start of the rebuild and it’s assembly. That is because there never was a true rebuild. Yet you toss the word around like you know what it means.
Stick to your fake projection models and avoiding the games since you never watch the Jays. I’ll wait for your anger response I’ll never read.
What a clown Wild Bill Tetley or is it Jimmertee.
Shame that words like re-tool and re-set confuse you so easily. (Aitkens )
I never watch the Jays?
Hmm seeing how your current alias never made an appearance until this past off season and there have not been any regular season games . WildBill you give yourself away at ever turn when triggered . A total joke. Go back to saying hitters elbow protection causes pitching injuries.
To the Blue Jays fans ready to hand Atkins that nice extension, is it too much to ask to wait until May?
Atkins has done some good and some bad. Anthopoulos did some good and some bad.
Ricciardi was useless as is every ex-A’s executives.
Building a good farm system is something you are supposed to do. A prerequisite. Considering the draft positions and positions in the standings it’s somewhat of an expectation. But let’s wait on this extension. If the Jays have a huge 2021 they can always add dollars to the extension. Until then let’s find out if his offseason strategy works with no starting pitching and a couple overpays.
1 Goose Man
They picked up Charlie through 22’. Ross will get extended too. He is deserving.
Neither Montoyo or Atkins is “deserving”.
This comment section is insane. I cant believe people look at the Blue Jays roster as currently constructed and come to the conclusion that the front office has done a bad job. There’s like three, maybe four teams, who have a similar ability to compete for the 2021 season and for multiple years after that. Luckily for us Blue Jays fans, we are one of those teams.
The FO in Toronto is essentially Shapiro. Atkins is not really a GM. He’s a eunuch who says and does whatever Shapiro tells him to. Atkins is really a lap-dog who meets with the press so Shapiro doesn’t have to and deals with the mundane task of writing up contracts once negotiations are finalized. The Blue Jays are one of the few MLB that are properly run…as a business. They are sound financially and that is why Shapiro was hired. He is excellent on the business side of things as evidenced by the terrific job accomplished in Dunedin working with city, county and state representatives in securing the Blue Jays long-range future in Dunedin. As for the on-field side of things they do just enough to stay competitive and dupe the average Toronto baseball fan into thinking they are putting the on-field product first.
That must be why they spent 150m on Springer rather then rolling with the 2020 outfield who are all still with the team. Love how fans of other teams act like experts for another team.
Thanks for proving my point…they do just enough to dupe the Toronto baseball fan into thinking they are putting the on-field product first.
And spend 150m doing it huh? lol what a joke.
“Love how fans of other teams act like experts for another team.”
I personally love how armchair fans act like experts for another team.