Major League Baseball will again limit teams to carrying thirteen pitchers on the active roster when the 2022 season begins, reports Bob Nightengale of USA Today. MLB instituted a 13-pitcher limit in February 2020, but the rule has been waived in each of the past two seasons as part of the MLB-MLBPA agreements on COVID-19 health and safety protocols. Interestingly, the 13-pitcher limit may just be the beginning. The league is open to capping the number of hurlers on an active roster at twelve or perhaps eleven further down the line, per Nightengale.
Teams have become more aggressive in deploying relievers in recent seasons. Fresher arms have contributed to increased velocity across the board. The league is averaging 93.4 MPH on fastballs, 84.5 MPH on sliders and 79.5 MPH on curveballs this season, per FanGraphs. In 2002- the first year for which FanGraphs has pitch data- those offerings averaged 89.0 MPH, 80.4 MPH and 75.0 MPH, respectively.
More frequent reliever usage isn’t the only reason pitch speeds have dramatically accelerated in recent years; teams are also selecting for and training velocity in a more targeted way than ever. Nevertheless, there seems to be merit to the belief that shorter per-game stints for pitchers has some role in the uptick. By limiting the number of relievers a team can carry at any given time, the hope is teams will be compelled to stick with pitchers (predominantly starters) longer in games, thereby leveling off or decreasing the continued improvement in the quality of pitchers’ repertoires.
That’s all done in an attempt to curb the strikeouts that have become so prevalent in today’s game. Hitters are punching out in 24.2% of plate appearances this season, a 0.8 point increase relative to last year. Some of that is a result of the return of pitcher hitting in the National League after a 2020 season with a universal DH, but it’s certainly not a new development. The leaguewide strikeout rate has risen every year since 2006, setting a new all-time high each time. (Again using 2002 as a reference point, the strikeout rate is up more than seven points from that year’s 16.8% mark). The lack of balls in play has led to concerns about the quality of the on-field product, with the game more static than ever before.
Pitchers’ widespread use of foreign substances on the ball is another potential driver of the uptick in whiffs. Grip enhancers have been shown to increase pitchers’ ability to spin the ball, leading to sharper movement and more swings and misses. MLB has suggested in the past they planned to crack down on foreign substance usage, and Nightengale reports the league has now ordered umpires to be “vigilant” in that effort, with increased enforcement expected in the next two weeks.
Earlier this week, umpire Joe West confiscated the cap of Cardinals reliever Giovanny Gallegos based on a belief the righty had applied a foreign substance to the brim. That drew the ire of St. Louis manager Mike Shildt, who called foreign substance use “baseball’s dirty little secret” and argued the decision to single out Gallegos for such a widespread practice was “the wrong time and the wrong arena to expose it” (via Ryan Wormeli of NBC Sports Chicago). With the league now pushing umpires to intervene to limit foreign substance use, it wouldn’t be a surprise if similar situations arose in the coming days.
It also seems electronic calling of balls and strikes will be in play in the not too distant future- Nightengale suggests it could be in the majors within three years from now- with a corresponding modification of the rulebook strike zone. “When (the electronic strike zone) comes, it’s really easy to make adjustments in the strike zone,” MLB consultant Theo Epstein tells Nightengale. “We’re trying to optimize contact. So, the way the strike zone used to be a little bit wider and a little bit shorter, which was better for contact. Now, it’s really tall, but narrow. So you can shrink the zone a little bit, especially the upper boundary, which might be better for inducing more contact.’’
Nightengale’s piece is well worth a full read for those interested in the state of the game. Epstein explains his perspective on why the sport has trended the direction it has, offering some hypotheses about ways to incentivize a more traditional, contact-oriented style of play. The former Red Sox and Cubs executive also explains the thought processes behind the experimental rules changes currently being tested at various levels of the minor leagues and in independent ball.
Bob isn’t a real reporter
Correct. I would never report what he says as “news”.
In this case he’s quoting a person directly. Hard to get those wrong.
This is EXACTLY my #1 gripe about MLB today!! The number of pitchers on active rosters is insane. My team ATM and for much of the season has 14 pitchers on the 26-man active roster, inexcusable!! I would definitely like to see no more than an 11-pitcher limit for active rosters. Not just because of all the pitcher changes. Not just because of the higher strikeout totals. But because I’m tired of having a bench that consists of just a backup catcher and two other position players, that is NOT baseball. I do NOT want to keep no-hit guys like Marwin Gonzalez on the bench just because my team has to have a guy that can play several positions. A 32-year-old bench player who has hit .206 with a .288 OBP since the start of the 2020 season should be someone kept in the minors as an injury fill-in. He should NOT be literally 50% of the bench, not counting the backup catcher.
When the game situation calls for a pinch-hitter or pinch-runner, there should be players on the bench who can hit and who can run! We do NOT want to use pitchers as pinch-runners, that’s how Steven Wright ruined his career.
PLEASE MLB, get this done. Get the pitcher limits down to 11 and get the benches back up to five non-catchers!
How is that your #1 gripe ahead of the outdated human umpire? This season has totally exposed them all for being total relics of the game that have no value to the game today whatsoever. All they can do is either have no effect or have the biggest effect on a game – literally 0% of fans watch the game to see the umps, and laser guided box strike zones eliminate the need for them. They should use the box we see on tv for the zone, I know hitters just want consistency, but as a fan, Im not happy with something wrong being viewed “ok” just because it’s consistently wrong. Just use the zone we see on tv, it literally is right 100% of the time and I’ve never seen a pitch in the box not be a strike with the box removed.
Ummm … first of all, the quality of umpiring impacts all teams the same over the long haul. It doesn’t favor any particular team.
Secondly, it’s not that umpiring has gotten worse. It’s just that technology has gotten way better in showing bad calls.
I’m with you on the strike zone, I’d be all for removing umpires from calling balls and strikes.
But it would be impossible to remove umpires altogether, too many plays that cannot be called by technology.
Well said
Except that a very significant portion of the fanbase doesn’t agree with your assessment of umpires and their impact on the game. I personally am in favor of keeping the umpire behind the plate for balls and strikes and enjoy the added wrinkle each umpires strike zone brings to each game.
The real problem is accountability for umpires that are extremely poor performers. There are plenty of good umpires out there. If the MLB was serious about increasing the quality, all they would have to do is increase accountability in job performance. That would do a lot more for improving the game than taking the easy way out and removing umpires from the equation.
Fever, I feel like umping has gotten worse because of their knowing they don’t have to get it right and because of their union. They should be treated like players who can be sent down if they don’t perform well.
Stan, I fully agree with you on accountability. But how would you do that? In many situations they are already held accountable through in-game Manager’s Challenges. And as you probably know, MLB pays 17 umpire supervisors and observers to evaluate umpire performance. Poor umpires do get weeded out, but since there’s a human element in umpiring there will always be bad calls.
lets talk about that TV box.
at what depth point is the box legit on TV the box is a general location no one can verify its in the middle of the plate from back to front.
lets say its a curve that hits the bottom corner at the front of plate but drops out of zone by the middle or back of plate — is that a strike?
What people tend to see is the where it hits the mitt but umpires or video calls should hit the front as well as the mid depth of plate to catch the curves or pitches that bottom out once out of zone.
No any team playing the Braves get favorable calls lol
They don’t sufficiently get weeded out as you put it Fever due to the union. If they really did, Buckner and Hernandez would have been long gone. Anyone see the Sox-Fish Friday game? The teams are lucky there were no season ending injuries. Puddles and mud galore with lack of grip ability on the ball.
Datashark:
“…say…a curve…hits the bottom corner at the front of plate but drops out of zone by the middle or back of plate — is that a strike?”
By rulebook definition, yes it is.
The box is at the front of the plate. But the zone can be triangulated to include the entire volume as it should. But the box being at the front of the plate is the most telling. And that’s simply because the ball is dropping as it travels. So the ball hitting the top of the zone will drop further into it And as related to the question above, per the rule book, even if the ball drops out of the zone after hitting the bottom, it’s still a strike.
Dewey, I know many people think umpires are immune to scrutiny and punishment … but that is simply not true. The umps have been unionized since 1970, but now they are monitored and disciplined more than ever.
Full time MLB umpires immediately go on a 3-year probationary period where they can be let go at any time. After the probationary period has passed, they can be subjected to on-the-spot daily evaluations.
If they are not full time, they can indeed be sent to the minors.
@Fever, don’t take the human element out of the game.
Back in the late 80’s/early 90’s most teams only carried 10 or 11 Pitchers at any given time because starters actually finished games and if not usually went 6 or 7 innings. The average innings pitched per start in 1991 was 7, in 2001 it was 6, 2011 it was about 5.2 and today it’s barely 5. I don’t speak for everyone but I’m fairly sure when most people watch games we want to see the starter pitch deep into the game, not the middle innings guys. If not the starter than you want to see the Closer. Maybe forcing teams to carry fewer relievers and doing like in the Minor Leagues this season and tying the DH to the starters innings pitched may be ways to get the competitive fire back into starters because while there are some that want to go deep there are some that want to do five innings and hit the showers
And it will take away all of those stupid “opener” bullpen games. Kevin Cash is going to spontaneously combust
So baseball cannot evolve but stay the same to keep the loyalists happy? The Rays were using the opener strategy before Covid/pitcher roster changes anyway. This year the Rays knew that pitchers would have a limit based on last season’s limited games & signed some pitchers who would excel at pitching different innings. The Rays would have some of their better young hitters up getting a “cup of coffee” if they couldn’t carry a extra pitcher.
I didn’t watch a lot of baseball in the 80s and 90s other than the All-Star game & a couple of World Series, but how common was it for a pitcher to have an injury like one that lead to Tommy John surgery or thoracic outlet syndrome? Now that seems to be a little bit more common – Even in the minor leagues. For example the Royals just lost one of their top prospect minor-league pitchers (Jonathan bowlan) to needing Tommy John surgery.
Gonzalez is still on the Sox bench because he is a buddy of Alex Cora AND is under a 3m contract for this reason, do a bit of research before posting a long rant such as that please.
If Gonzalez (hopefully) is DFA’d over the summer? Look for another super utility player, like him, only with a better bat such as Michael Chavis, or Jonathan Arauz to take his place.
Flip side is don’t see MLB knocking down rosters any lower regardless. pitcher injuries are piling up. Who needs pinch hitters anyway? NL wants them for outdated pitchers.. Go for it.. They can limit anything in that league..
Stop fooling with what works in the AL, like the DH since 1973..
Why would I do research when I already knew those two things before the season even started? You know what they say about people who make assumptions …
And you’re missing the point. Marwin is on the team ONLY because he plays so many positions. If he was a one-position player, he wouldn’t be.
This is probably before your time, but years ago the Rays redefined the utility role with a super-utility player named Ben Zobrist who played several positions. Zobrist is the guy who popularized the role that Marwin now has.
Chavis and Arauz are not anywhere near super-utility level. Marwin has extensive ML experience at six different positions, the other two have very little.
Who needs pinch hitters? Many of the greatest moments in MLB history have been the result of pinch hitting. Nobody wants to see a guy with a sub-.220 BA at the plate with the game on the line.
Isn’t .220 somewhere around the league average?
No, as of 2018 league average is .249 and the all-time low is .230 in 1968.
You are correct about the bench. When teams carry an excess of pitchers, they need bench guys who can fill in at multiple positions and many can’t hit a lick so it’s mostly for defensive purposes. It’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Fever, I’d bring back Holt through a trade with Texas. Won’t cost much. To me MG doesn’t seem exceptional at any position.
Fundamentally the issue here is that you’re not speaking to the rule change suggested.
They are looking at a limit of 12 pitchers, not 13. That is likely an overreach – team have been consistently carrying 13 pitchers even with 25 man rosters because that’s what they felt they needed to use to win.
Right now teams with less solid staffs may use 14 pitchers, others use 13 on their 26 man roster and that works for them, especially with the AAA shuttle approach. The Sox are in the former camp. So they only have 3 bench guys (that’s still for in the NL). But they also have a team where they don’t use their bench all that much, Cordero has had a horrible year so was just sent down, Chavis is a defensive liability so has less utility, and Gonzalez is also having an awful year at bat.
But let me clue you in – very few (or no) teams now have 9 guys hitting .250. And the Sox have Arroyo as a ready replacement for Gonzalez. They could go to a 13 man bench and have Chavis as an additional pinch hitter. But they feel they more need the pitching depth. And offense isn’t the Sox issue. Not sure why you’re complaining so.
And don’t get me started on the starters going 7 argument – that one is dead and buried. Few pitchers are that good. And I’m an old guy – saw Mickey Mantle play. Times and the game have changed.
Offense most definitely is the Sox issue.
In 18 of their 21 losses they scored just 3 runs or less, it’s not like they are losing slugfests.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong BUT teams today can reduce the number of pitchers on their active rosters if they feel that having more reserve players sitting on the bench gives them any sort of competitive advantage.
Of course they can. No minimum limit but the game has gotten out of control in mph and spin rates that mist pitcher’s today lack the endurance to have less roster wise. I wish the league would examine bats today. The number of cracked bats each year seems to have declined and I wonder if a composition change has contributed to velocity and HR distance rates along with the mph rate and players simply being stronger today.
Correct, as of today teams can use whatever number of pitchers they prefer. However it is widely believed that having a deeper bench and changing the way the bullpen is managed would give teams a better advantage in the long run. Right now many teams aren’t willing to make those necessary changes for reasons that go beyond what makes the most sense..
Exactly, but part of this equation is the money. The cost for the defensive bench guys and most bullpens guys is minimal compared to the starting rosters. Teams will not pay a premium for the bench players so it’s a cheap way out, but not necessarily the best way to compete.
Looie I have the answer on the cracked bats. Back in the day bats were made out of slanted grain Maple, now they’re using mostly straight grain Ash which means they are stronger.
Thanks. Strobes bats with stronger athletes means longer hits regardless of the speed or spin rate, assuming solid contact is made. Teams should go back to slanted grain maple in my view. Would also be safer for pitchers as the ball hit at them at 100 + mph occurs more often than getting it with a dangerous bat splinter.
This is an abuse of power by MLB. Neither roster construction (outside of the overall number of active players) should be left 100% to the individual team.
How a team divides that number between position players and pitchers needs to be their decision based on how they feel they can field the most competitive team based on their player pool.
If a team opts for an short bench (or a lean pen) that NEEDS to be the team’s decision.
This isn’t fantasy baseball.
What’s next, MLB? Do you need to dictate the lineups and pitching chamges, too? Will the next rule be that all shortstops have to bat lead off, or that all starters must throw 100 pitches?
And how do 2-way players fit in this new roster rule?
Stars, you’re forgetting one thing. Every team combined comprises the entity known as MLB. If something teams are doing has a negative or damaging impact on the brand, and in this case on the health of pitchers, MLB has the right to make changes. Teams are not independently run franchises, they are all governed by the MLB umbrella.
Shortstops leading off only works under the guidance of Ned Yost & can only work with Alcides Escobar and it can only work when you are in a playoff run. Duh.
Starscream, there is no MLB abuse when the rules are the same for all teams. They increased the roster size recently and the idea is to shorten in hours not innings the game. Teams looking for the edge turned to power pitching which now necessitates too many pitching changes. By limiting the number of pitchers is basically bringing the game back to the way it used to be. Personally, I’d get rid of the DH which only came about in the early 70s to increase scoring in the AL. Such is not needed today. Bwhat is though is to teach batters the art of hitting. I say give each Ted Williams’ book about hitting like many of is got from our parents when we played little league and to play in the ML, players have to pass a test each year like joining the fire department with written, oral and physical exams at the end of spring training and before call ups.
Ok this is just nuts. Pitchers this year are K’ing in nearly 1/2 their plate appearances. This would be good for the game?
And I looked at ML rosters – 16 teams use 14 or more (Angels have 15) pitchers, KC right now only has 12. But 9 of those 16 are in the NL where you;d think the extra bench guy might be more useful for pinch hittling needs. Apparently teams don’t think so. 6 of the top 10 teams in ERA do use only 13, including all 3 in the AL.
Lets face it – the 26th guy on the team becomes a team decision on the marginal utility of that added player.
But changing the rule to 12 seems to fit no one’s thought pattern – well maybe KC’s today but they’re 22nd in team ERA so maybe they just lack org pitching depth.
I’ve been arguing for an 11 man max staff for years. Make pitchers learn how to pitch. Stamina is part of the equation. Once the arm is developed for longer and more outings, injuries will lessen. I remember when Ray Culp developed a shoulder injury. While it was significant, it was not the norm back then. Today the attitude is play and pray. Use them until you lose them. You can’t protect a pitcher long term when they’re overthrowing to keep up. I’ve written this before: in the 75 WS, Sparky Anderson had 9 pitchers in his 25 man roster. While he was known as Captain Hook, so few arms allowed for great strategy and pinch hitting opportunities as the DH wasn’t used.
Looie, you’re 100% right. Pitchers are overthrowing too often and it’s causing the injuries. Chris Sale was perfectly healthy in 2018 until he overthrew in the All-Star Game, getting clocked at 100.7MPH which was the hardest he’s thrown since his rookie year. The rest of that season he began dealing with injuries that eventually led to TJ surgery prior to the 2020 season.
Similar thing happened to Pedro after he overthrew in the 1999 All-Star Game.
Cool
So that begs the question…what would be the appropriate time and arena to talk about foreign substance abuse by pitchers, Mr. Cardinals Manager? Seems like he’s just pissy it happened to his guy.
The league needs to go after the most blatant offenders on the big market teams. Both Cole and Bauer need to be fully investigated, along with everyone who pitched for Houston in the last 5 years. Any pitcher that has increased thier spin rate substantially needs to be investigated.
The league seriously needs to crack down on this.
I would counter that agreement about the Astros pitchers. They actively pursued guys with high spin rates from other teams in the minors or who they felt could improve; McCullers,Cole. There haven’t been huge spikes by the pitchers in Houston.
@Chazz79
I am going to assume you have never looked at the statistics.
Gerrit Cole: 2017 (Pirates) Spin 4-Seam 2164 RPM Curveball 2667 RPM and 2018 (Astros) Spin 4-Seam 2379 RPM Curve 2842 RPM. “no increase”??
I am only going to look at Cole because you all could look at these stats on Savant
How about having the 3rd base (or 1st base) umpire check the cap and glove of EVERY pitcher leaving the mound? It wouldn’t require extra time to do so, as the incoming new pitcher takes time to warm up.
The guy had suntan lotion on his cap go after the real abuses. Read the article.
If that’s the case there won’t be any repercussions. The umpire had no way of knowing that.
@themed Combining sunscreen and pine tar is how they make the sticky substance pitchers are applying to the baseball.
Oh it gets a LOT more sophisticated than that. That’s old school. I used to do that in high school (for better control … I had no idea about spin rate and couldn’t spin a good curve if my life depended on it). Pitchers these days have consulting chemists.
Bullfrog sunscreen and rosin, not pine tar.
Used that since High Scool in San Diego & introduced it yo my D1 squad; nowadays, just a dab on the golf glove helps with Drivers and long Irons.
So sunscreen on your hat isn’t a foreign substance?
He is pissy his guy was selected, but his point is also correct.
Joe West is a clown. Don’t forget that.
he is a clown to the cancel culture’s effort, well that didn’t work now did it
I don’t think his point is correct though if he’s not willing to have the conversation in general. He’s clearly been silent on the issue but here he is implying there IS a right time and venue. Okay then when is that?
Shildt’s complaining about “the wrong time and the wrong arena to expose it..” is laughable. Is there another arena outside of an actual game?
They should start with Gausman, his black hat is extremely ‘discolored’. Average pitcher most of his career, now he’s Cy Young? I’d like to see when he was average in Baltimore how many times he ‘went to his cap’ on each pitch.
What a weird state baseball is in. All these “pace of play” intiatives instituted lately.. but you want to limit the construction of rosters so as to force pitchers to be more tired (weird #1) but then that increases offense and elongates games (weird #2 negating supposed reasons for other recent rule implementations)
Each iteration has me losing more interest
You forgot the (weird #3) of trying to institute a universal DH. AL games have always taken much longer to play than NL games and yet baseball seems to want the NL to adopt the AL ways instead of vice versa when they are trying to increase the pace of play.
It’s not length of games. It’s lack of action in the games.
Yes. Length of game doesn’t bother me. It’s all the fiddling with batter gloves, in and out of the box, pitchers walking around the mound, etc. Just play.
I understand your point, but the AL will never get rid of the DH. It gives mid-to-late-30s guys who can no longer play defense a way to extend their careers, and the average fan would rather see great hitting than great pitching. Couple that with most pitchers not being able to hit themselves out of a box, and it’s only a matter of time until the NL brings in the DH.
Wrong about the length of time for AL games vs NL games.
First of all, games between two AL teams take on average only 2 minutes longer than games between NL teams according to fivethirtyeight. And that’s because certain AL teams work the count more, take more pitches.
Secondly, when interleague games were played by the same AL vs NL teams in each park using the home team’s league rules, it was actually the games in the NL parks with the NL rules that took longer.
If MLB can somehow get more balls in play, games will be shorter no matter how high the scores are. The driver of longer games is the endless parade of 3-2 counts and pitching changes.
I feel like all would be better if the pitcher received ball and threw the ball. A lot of time spent waving off catchers, batters calling for time , pitchers stepping off the mound… just get on with it. Pitch clock and limited batter time would go a long way.
I don’t disagree with you on the first part but implemented any kind of clock is about the worse thing for baseball. It’s the only pro team sport which doesn’t use a clock. Once you go down that route, it’s not going to stop. Then you have a sport that used to resemble baseball.
The game already barely resembles baseball. Name a golden era HOFer who thought there should be 30 seconds between each pitch?
Yes.
couldn’t agree more man. they just keep trying to force the game to be a certain way. and that’s not baseball. why dont they have sports cars start taking golfers around the holes faster? because that’s not golf. leave baseball alone
@braves2, the PGA has a pace of play rule.
Teams can still make roster moves to get fresh pitchers. The point is that it actually speeds up the game by cutting down the number of pitching changes managers are willing to make each game.
Anyway, teams can get by perfectly fine with 13 pitchers. Even just a decade ago, 12 pitchers was the norm, and that was with them sometimes getting pulled after just 1 or 2 batters.
Why would you assume that reducing the number of pitchers on the roster would increase offense? It’s a statistical fact that the more relievers you run out to the mound during the course of a game, the greater chance that one or more of those relievers will get lit up. Friday’s Yankee-Tiger game was a perfect example of that.
And reducing the number of mid-inning pitching changes can only speed up the game, not slow it down.
They’ve already instituted rules to limit pitching changes.
Not only that, but tired pitchers equal more injuries. Just wait to see how many arms get blown out as pitchers are forced to keep throwing after they’re gassed.
Yes Ryan this is indeed the crux of the argument –
Why Manfred would ever want to put a manager in that position I’ll never understand
Just wait till a good pitcher gets hurt because nobody else was avail…The coach is going to go ballistic in the media and for good reason. Preservation of these arms does not get taken lightly by ballclubs these days, its almost a Science albeit not fully understood quite yet
By limiting the number of relievers a team can carry at any given time, the hope is teams will be compelled to stick with pitchers (predominantly starters) longer in games, thereby leveling off or decreasing the continued improvement in the quality of pitchers’ repertoires.
By limiting the number of relievers a team can carry at any given time, the hope is teams will be compelled to stick with pitchers (predominantly starters) longer in games, thereby increasing the continued improvement in the quantity of surgeons’ incomes.
Fixed.
Or just maybe guys could eschew max effort on every single pitch, pace themselves like they did the first 125 years of professional baseball, work on location and movement, and pitch more offspeed in order to miss a few bats.
Just as hitters could learn to bunt and hit the other way instead of swinging from the ass at every single pitch.
Baseball has never had more athleticism. Or less skill involved
Throwing more off-speed is what is causing the epidemic of K’s. That’s not the answer. Off speed pitches are the least likely to be put in play (lease likely to be swung at, least likely to create contact, least like to be hit fair). That’s always been the case, and in fact is the reason why analytics driven teams (which is to say most of them) are pushing spin rates and off-speed pitch rates as high as they can get them.
Great response $21002046!
I would also add, the one-and-done approach to bullpen management actually contributes to more injuries because relievers are throwing a LOT more warmup pitches in the bullpen, as they are “ramping it up” more often throughout the season.
What taxes a pitcher’s body more: A reliever who twice pitches 2 innings over 5 days, or a reliever who pitches 1 inning four times over 5 days?
Both scenarios result in the same number of innings pitched, but obviously pitching in 4 games over 5 days takes the greater toll on the body.
Now everybody knows that max effort leads to better results. If it didn’t, teams would be doing it now. What will happen is teams will just shuffle more pitchers between MLB and AAA.
In other words, be Greg Maddox.
I’m happy that Theo is taking a more intuitive approach to injecting offense into the game rather than just changing the ball when stuff doesn’t go his way. I like the changes he’s talking about, and I’m all for any rule change that makes the SP more prevelant again because it feels like that position has recently faded into another new-age hybrid role. I’d love to see pitchers going 100-110 pitches regularly, and helping their teams deep into games. If this rule can influence that, then I’m all in.
Theo was brought in because he’s similar to Manfred. Epstein will help solve nothing.
And you base that on what? It’s more likely Manfred, who has shown a complete lack of intuition about the game, brought in Theo because he posses that insight as well as the management skills to implement what looks to be inevitable changes.
By 2027, they’ll just eliminate players completely and go with Strat-O-Matic games.
The game has become unbearably boring and more changes are needed such as reducing the number of balls to 3 for a walk and number of innings.
Can’t tell if you’re being saracastic. Walks are the worst though. They are the curse of baseball, far worse than K’s, because they take one more pitch than K’s, and slow the game down even more (with someone on base to worry about).
Lowering the walk to 3 balls would incentivize hitters to swing less.
Perhaps foul balls should no longer count as strikes.
Maybe they should, including strike three, as in bunting foul is already a third strike.
You are watching no games if you think this game is “unbearably boring” – almost every Padres game has felt like a playoffs game this year. No hitters left and right, defensive masterpieces, incredible hitting: the game is the highest quality if EVER has been.
Please don’t comment here if you hate baseball, we are sick of types like you.
I can’t believe I actually agree with you, @A’sFan, but I have almost exclusively only watched Padres games this year and they have been very entertaining. Yes, the games take hours, so if one is not prepared to spend that much time, they should choose a different sport or a different hobby. It is going to be very challenging to change the game to be ‘more exciting’ or ‘take less time’.
Absolutely insane idea
I remember when Rusty Staub used to be happy if a pitcher threw the ball harder. Less work for him to get the same result. But I guess you have to be a hitter who looks to go up the middle (eliminates shifts) and not try to pull home runs with big swings. That up the middle thing led to Rusty hitting into 4 double plays in one game and a great post game quote. Hey, if Felix Milan didn’t get 4 hits, I wouldn’t have hit into 4 double plays, so it’s his fault. Hit the ball up the middle!
Hitters hitting up the middle is precisely WHY teams shift. The most important part of a shift is the opposite field middle infielder playing directly behind 2nd base, because that’s where most balls go anyway. Back in the pre-shift era, a ground ball up the middle that got past the pitcher was a sure hit, unless an infielder made a spectacular play, and very common. Now it’s a virtually sure out with a routine play. You can beat a shift by hitting a ground ball the opposite way, but for most swings, that’s biomechanically very hard, especially for lefties. That’s why shifts work.
I instinctively still have a positive feeling when a hitter on my team hits a ball up the middle. Excellent. It’s a hit. Nope. There’s a middle infielder standing right behind second base for the out.
Hit the ball where they ain’t… that’s how you ban a shift.
W
MLB is just giving the guys who don’t even try to hide the fact they’re using something they shouldn’t a free pass this year.
Fresher arms have contributed to increased velocity across the board. The league is averaging 93.4 MPH on fastballs, 84.5 MPH on sliders and 79.5 MPH on curveballs this season, per FanGraphs. In 2002- the first year for which FanGraphs has pitch data- those offerings averaged 89.0 MPH, 80.4 MPH and 75.0 MPH, respectively.
In 2002, there were 35 TJ surgeries. In 2021, we are at 42 about 5/12 through the year. Might hit 100.
Isn’t it ironic … the more teams baby starting pitchers these days, the more those same pitchers require TJ surgery. So perhaps building up endurance instead of reducing it is the real solution?
Yes. Ask Leo Mazzone.
Great. Does this mean they are going to cut the number of innings for a regular game to 7 now? And the number of innings for a double header to 5? God forbid these guys learn how to pitch instead of just going up there and throwing as hard as they can without having a clue where it is going for 15 pitches a night. That doesn’t make baseball tedious to watch at all.
They don’t aim for an spot, they aim for an area. It’s pretty bad. I love the idea of having starting pitchers going deeper into games. If you can’t go at least 6 every night (rare circumstances accepted) you don’t belong in the MLs.
And what is really sad is that 35-40 years ago, just going 6 innings was considered a failed start. Back end starters were the ones going 6-7 innings while top of the rotation guys were expected to go at least 8.
The game may have changed quite a bit, but the human body hasn’t. People are always touting how much better nutrition is and how much better shape players are in and how much more athletic they are, but for some reason they can play nearly as much as a generation or two before.
The quality start statistic hasn’t helped. It may have had a negative impact on innings pitched. For me a quality start is eight innings minimum.
Actually the problem is a lot of them DO know where it’s going, which makes them all but impossible to hit.
How can people simultaneously complain that offense is at all time lows, and that pitchers need to learn how to pitch? Seems like the pitchers are doing something right.
First off, I am not complaining about both, I am complaining about one. Other people are complaining about offense at an all time low. Different people can complain about opposite things in any subject.
Secondly, the pitchers are not doing anything right. The thing is that if the pitchers have no clue where the ball is going, then neither do the batters. That doesn’t make them pitchers. It just make them guys that throw hard.
Thirdly, batters have been taught that striking out is not that bad a thing anymore, so they just swing and hope for the best. Batters have no idea how to hit and the shift is proving that. Time and time again you see an entire side of the infield empty where a push bunt could probably become a double. Instead, batters insist on trying to pull a home run every time to get on Sportscenter. Pitchers shouldn’t get credit for that.
hiflew
“…batters have been taught that striking out is not that bad a thing anymore, so they just swing and hope for the best.”
Not true. No team is saying just swing hard and don’t worry if you strike out. What teams have realized, through analysis, is that a strike out isn’t as bad as was previously thought, IF, that batter, also gets on base at a high percentage, and hits for power.
The goal is creating runs. Sure, less strikeouts is better than more, but if a guy is striking out, but is still creating runs due to a high OBP, and ISO, then the Ks are forgivable.
A hitter has no future in MLB if he just swings and hopes for the best, strikes out, without much run creation.
It’s not a realization that a strikeout isn’t as bad as before, it is a current opinion. That “realization” is not a fact, it is just the way teams view things now. You can make stats agree with just about any argument you make. I love stats, they are a big part of why I enjoy baseball so much, but they can be manipulated to support whatever you want them to support.
I just hope the current generation is ready in twenty years when the next generation looks at the way they did things as stupid and archaic. I don’t think you will be though.
No, yours is the opinion. The current thinking regarding strike outs is backed up by stats. That realization is a fact, not an opinion. Strikeouts are not a big hindrance to creating runs if the hitter is doing other positive things. Sure teams would like less SOs, but if a guy is getting on base, has a high ISO, and is not striking out, then he’s probably an MVP candidate. A lot to ask for.
Saying that stats can be manipulated to say anything you want is just not true. Try and make Connor Joe an above average MLB player by manipulating stats. The analysis tools available today are the best that teams have ever had.. Why do you think every club in baseball doesn’t mind strike outs if that batter is doing other things that create runs.
Attacking the stats is a weak argument. So do you really believe that the sabermetrics departments of all 30 MLB teams are just wrong, and you are right? It’s the full-time job of the people in those departments to research how to win. Do also believe they are all manipulating stats to justify a trendy narrative?
If you want to know why teams don’t care about strike outs and everyone is trying to hit home runs is because that leads to more runs scored, which is the most important stat.
Since the beginning of last season, only 5 of the top 10 fewest strike out teams are also in the top 10 of runs scored. However 8 of the top 10 slg percentage teams are in the top 10 of runs scored and 9 of the top 11 highest ISO teams are in the top 10 of runs scored.
More extra base hits equate to more runs than fewer strike outs do and teams know this.
This is my big problem here: the hitters are “bad” if they K too much, but pitchers are also “bad” if they dont K enough hitters. This narrative here wants no hitter to ever K, but also wants all pitchers K’ing everyone. It’s a pathetic illogical narrative that needs to end immediately.
I don’t believe pitchers are bad if they don’t K enough hitters. I think it is far more impressive for a pitcher to have a great game WITHOUT striking out a bunch of hitters. Sabermetrics has convinced people that putting the ball in play is just dependent on luck. That is not true. Getting soft contact is something good pitchers have done for generations. That is why you have a defense.
Not to mention that it makes the game far more entertaining to watch as a fan. I don’t want to watch a game where 7 batters in a row go to a full count and end up with 4 walks and 3 Ks. I want to see balls in play. I want to see bloop singles falling in. I want to see sharp singles up the middle. I want to see infielders making tremendous defensive plays. I want to see outfielders making great catches and throws. I don’t need to see 14-12 games to enjoy baseball, but I don’t want to see 1-0 games with 30 strikeouts and 8 walks between the two teams. Pitch to contact may not be the statistically prudent thing to do, but it makes it a helluva lot better to watch.
Where have you gone Greg Maddox?
Exactly and it’ll help them not consistently have to throw 100+ pitches should they be able to go 7, 8 or 9 innings.
Maybe we’ll hear the Cardinals manager on NY Sports radio 660 AM.
CN they fire Manfred and make Theo commissioner already.
Lol. Yeah Theo would come in baseball would be great for 5 years or so. But he would sell out the future to get there and once the decline was coming he would quit and move on to the next thing. That’s what guys like Theo do……
10 or 11 pitchers are all that any team needs.
A team in a pitcher friendly park, sure. But if you did that you’d have to move the Rockies and probably the Diamondbacks, who would have no chance (they already don’t, but this would make it even worse). And having a hitter friendly stadium, which is kind of what the league likes, would become a massive disadvantage, causing teams to build new pitcher friendly ones. It’s already pretty tilted (the teams with pitcher friendly parks do better, all else being equal, by a healthy margin).
Pads are in the middle of 34 games in 33 days. As is, they are shuttling pitchers between SD and El Paso 2-3 times a week. Limiting the teams to 11 (10 is ridiculous, imo) would only contribute to consistent movement between MiLB and The Show for every team. Not sure the Player’s Union would be keen to restricting the pitcher limit down to 11, either. Pitchers would be forced to pitch longer, thus induce more injuries. Too many problems with limiting pitchers below 13, in my humble opinion.
The Rockies are a far cry from the “Blake Street Bombers” and thanks to the humidor Coors Field doesn’t supply the offensive edge it used too. Neither the Rockies or Diamondbacks would be at anymore of a disadvantage than the team they are playing against. There were several times over the years when Coors Field first opened that the Rockies only had six Relievers in the bullpen
How do you adjust the electronic K zone per player? Will they measure each player pre season and have each players zone dimensions pre loaded into the equipment? Disregard batter stance and just go by measurements?
Uniforms will have little electronic widgets sewn in. They’re tiny. You could also do it with AI, but a lot easier to leave that wizardry out.
I agree with capping pitchers at 13, but there’s no reason to go below that number. Wasn’t the point of expanding to 26-man rosters in the first place so that teams could carry both 13 pitchers and 4 (with DH) or 5 (without DH) bench players?
Yeah that doesn’t make much sense.
Who here today right now is fighting against the electronic strike zone???
I understand some things are debatable. But something like this where we are today why can’t they just get it done and move on? Pull up your big boy pants and do something that’s good for the game. Why can’t this get done???
They say the technology still hasn’t been perfected yet. Personally, I find it hard to believe that it’ll be ready as soon as 3 years from now.
Ok technology isn’t perfect.
Is it better than what we have now? I bet it is. I would bet anything on that.
Human error is more acceptable than electronic error. If we’re going to go electronic, then it needs to work perfectly.
Hard to believe the robo ump ball/strike technology hasn’t been perfected yet. I can go to mlb.com click on live then get a picture of the strike zone and where the balls landed. It’s probably already available umps are probably just fighting it. That’s been available for years and lots of games I’ve seen on the television even pop the exact same thing up. I’m tired of guys being umps for life no matter if they are good at it or not. Bring in the robo umps.
Those displays give you their best guess, but they’re not always completely accurate.
And neither are real umps. In fact if you examine a real umps calls on a daily basis you would see he’s missing all kinds of calls.
You put the technology in now because it’s better and then you work to improve it.
The robo-ump is not just better than the human ones, but miles better. Every person watching on TV, millions, to tens of millions of fans in some cases, all have a better idea of the zone than the guy actually making the calls. That’s a problem for baseball.
The umps are graded on their calls, but it’s a pretty forgiving analysis. MLB applies a 3″ buffer on the edges. So a ball outside the zone can be called a strike, and a great pitch on the corner can be missed, and those calls can be graded as good if they’re within that buffer zone. A missed call at 0-1 is huge. There’s an enormous difference between 1-1 and 0-2.
The zone is triangulated on a computer with multiple cameras. It is adjusted for the difference in size of the hitters. If it’s not perfect, I would be surprised. But regardless, it’s somewhat better than the few good umpires. and far, far better than the bad ones, of which there are a quite a few.
I can see the future cheat. A team hacks into the electronic ump and changeS the strike zone. When the other team is up to bat, the strike zone gets bigger. When the cheating team is up to bat, a custom strike zone for each batter to lessen their weak zones. Sign stealing will be a thing of the past. Go technology.
I don’t think the strike zone needs to be shrunken. For one thing, it’s already shorter than it used to be when it was from the armpits to the knees. Balls thrown at the numbers are perfectly hittable.
The real problem, though, is that while it may increase contact, it will also significantly increase walks, which will slow down the pace of the game, something we’re trying to avoid.
“They” (including Mandred) complain about long game times but give pitchers the historically tiniest of strike zones to work with. Pits to the knees, 18 inches across. Call the zone already and games will go quicker. It’s ridiculous to hear the custodians of the game complain about said game yet actively work against fixing it.
the general concept of throwing a pitch in the strike zone but it being unhittable is mental. how can it be a strike if its not hittable.
Limiting pitchers is not a great idea. There will still be a ton of young guys tossing 95. They will option them up and down and bend the rule. Good hitters can hit high velocity if they can use the whole field. The exaggerated shifts these days is a big reason you see hitters going for broke all the time. Regulate the shift not the number of pitchers
Nightengale’s been nothing but a mouthpiece for MLB’s front office for years. So if he’s spreading this stuff around, all those things are more than likely to happen. And the owners will listen to Theo; he’s had his warts, but has led two formerly moribund franchises into artistic (which is somewhat important) success and financial (which is INCREDIBLY important) success.
Pace of play is the real issue. If there’s lots of stuff going on, nobody cares the games take longer; actually, they look forward to it. If cutting down the size of pitcher-rosters increases it, it helps. .
MLB shouldn’t have a say on how a team’s roster is constructed.
What’s next? Banning sliders and splitters?
How many pitching prospects do we hear bad things about because they “dont strike out enough guys”. Its always one thing or the other with these moronic gatekeepers. They never want hitters to strike out, but want pitchers to do nothing but strike out hitters. It’s never enough. The game is fine, its too early in the season to be making any kinds of changes, we literally do not have enough data yet to determine if the no hitters were just flukey mostly based off the short pre-season with teams getting too many injuries that their FO’s didn’t prepare for by acquiring depth, or if it’s an actual issue.
I will never ever respect anyone who badmouths home runs, period. We need to let those people not have a seat at the table anymore. Small ball is extremely low percentage, low ceiling payoffs, homers are the highest ceiling payoffs. Why on earth should we be catering the game away from the home run? It’s not like homers are 90% of all hits, like the old guard speak about them as if they were, and once again, this comes from media hyperbole by the press and by anyone commenting online.
Online discourse would be a lot better if there was a hyperbole filter put on all online comments, forcing the writer to say exactly what they mean, not trying to pile on attention-seeking adjectives that don’t even apply half the time. It’s real low-level gutter discourse currently. The game has no real on-field problem: it’s still “see ball, hit ball” until there’s 27 outs. The real problem has to do with billions being made off players labor that they get 0.0001% of, but the fans complain because that’s over a million dollars. Players salaries shouldn’t be public if owners profits are not.
Does the word freedom or strategy meaning anything? Most fans love to see relievers throw gas so velo is up- great. Strategy on who to pitch when also separates good and bad managers. We hate to see injuries so overusing s pitcher is not a good strategy. More players on the roster is the answer. No mound visits in the first 5 innings unless you pull the pitcher is also a way to speed up the game.
Outside of pitcher vs. hitter, Baseball isn’t actually a strategy game though. It’s “see ball, hit ball” the other stuff is so massively overrated and has to do with league propaganda and the MLB networks’ wanting more avenues to fill airtime with phony narratives that go nowhere.
Tell that to some of the players who get shifted on. There is far more strategy to baseball than just pitcher v. hitter.
The “juiced” baseball and pine tar used on batting gloves, benefits hitters. So I see no issues with pitchers using a substance to grip the ball better.
Agree. Without these aides for a pitcher there is going to be a lot wildness out there! especially in the cold weather ️
One of the things that I like most about baseball was that time was not variable on the sport, like most do, and you never know until last out is made. The innings brake and pitchers change can always be skipped with mlb.com tv just by watching the game 30 min delay and catch the game live at the end.
The sport is fine, it is never going to be a massive sport like soccer and people that don’t like it will never do, so don’t loose the fans you already have.
Fine, just as long as they get rid of the stupid “runner on 2nd in extras” rule.
Also the equally stupid “3 batter minimum” rule.
Hopefully it means they won’t allow position players to pitch either.
I know a lot of people get a kick out of it, but after seeing it so many times this year, I think the game should do without it entirely.
Sadler:
No. That’s just another step to over-regulation. I do not not want to see baseball regulated to the extent that football is.
You might like watching high school quality sports, but I don’t.
Some guy throwing 58MPH dooky because his team is getting blown out or ran out of pitchers is just stupid.
First of all, most position players throw much harder than 58 MPH. Exaggerate much?
And position players only pitch when the game is no longer in question. Plus, It happens rarely. So if your team is up, or losing, by something like a 12 to 2 score in the 8th or 9th, and your biggest complaint is that the guy on the mound is not a regular pitcher, then I don’t know what say. But whatever, it’s not worth slapping another arbitrary, anti-baseball rule on the game.
I’m not exaggerating at all. Yermín Mercedes hit his homer last week off a 47 MPH pitch and it was stupid.
And it’s not my biggest complaint. My biggest complaints are the designated hitter, extra inning rule, and a roster full of pitchers that nobody can hit.
One anecdotal occurrence doesn’t justify a rule change that has no effect on the game in which it occurs, but could have an impact on pitcher’s health, and the availability of relievers in the next game or two.
I don’t like the DH, or the extra innings rule, either. So you don’t like some of the same rules I don’t, but you want to change baseball with a rule that could have wider ranging effects just to address your own pet peeve. Just leave baseball alone.
If they do that and the team runs out of relievers, who pitches? The pitching coach?
Not crazy about the 13 pitcher limit. Baseball has always been about the freedom of teams to construct their roster how they see fit. Clubs have always tailored their team s to it’s .park, focusing on pitching and defense or big boppers, and the number of pitchers is part of that tailoring.
It’s arbitrary, and artificial. With the 3 batter rule, talk of banning shifts, my fear is baseball becoming over-regulated in the fashion of football The great thing about baseball has been the freedom to be creative with the roster, and how the players are used.
Despite being a fan baseball since the mid-1950s, I fear losing interest and becoming an ex-fan, of an overly regulated product, with artifice like the DH, bans on the shift, roster limits, and the 3 batter, and extra-innings rule. The game is being dumbed-down.
3 strikes, 9 innings, 3 outs, 4 balls are all arbitrary and artificial too.
Actually 3 strikes, 9 innings, etc, weren’t always the numbers used. Those came about in the early years through refinement, and have worked really well for 130+ years. Not sure we should try to fix something that I think isn’t broke.
So then, perhaps you’re making my point.
What’s needed now is more refinement. The players are literally about 6 inches taller, 60 pounds heavier, etc. than when the rules were made. It’s time to compensate for the fact that the physical athlete has surpassed the original design of the game.
What you’re suggesting is not refinement but regulations to restrict. The great thing about baseball in the past was clubs had the freedom to decide what’s best for their teams, with play and and strategies evolving over the years.
Current proposals want to take away that freedom, and try to force the sport into some perceived more exciting game through rule changes. I liked baseball as it was, and what’s it’s become on it’s own without the attempts to force it into a mold.
It’s funny, I’m old too and mostly done with the sport but precisely because it’s not fun watching 20 strikeouts a game, no hit and runs, no bunts, etc. Regulation is an attempt to bring back something watchable; which in its current pace; won’t be much longer.
Should be noted here that the velocity data is a bit misleading, as they changed the way velocity was measured in 2017, in a way that saw velocity increase across the board. That doesn’t account for all of that change, but a fair amount of it.
Watched a documentary a couple of years ago hosted by Kevin Costner. They were trying to figure out who threw the fastest and looked through history. They used three examples of pitchers whose speed was measured: Walter Johnson, Bob Feller and someone from more contemporary baseball. They noted that the speeds could not be compared without adjustment. Today, we measure the speed right after the pitcher realizes the ball. However,the speed of the ball decreases as it approaches the plate because of air resistance. Feller’s pitches were measured by a device that sat over home plate and which he had to throw through. (After several pitches, he threw one a little out of the strike zone that destroyed the instrument.). Walter Johnson threw in street clothes, on a flat surface (no mound) through a device behind home plate. If I remember correctly, they determined that Feller threw the fastest. Interesting documentary, think it is called ‘Fastball”
@Skeptical….It was indeed called “Fastball” and the 3rd pitcher was Nolan Ryan. When they measured Ryan’s historic pitch in August of 74 at 100.9 mph it was measured 10 feet in front of home plate unlike today as you mentioned. The baseball enthusiasts who also happen to be physicists who worked on the film calculated that a baseball loses 1 mph for every 5.5 feet traveled.
When adjustments were made Johnson’s pitch was 98+ mph, Feller threw at 107+ and Ryan’s 100.9 mph pitch was actually, by today’s standards, 108.5 MPH..
It makes you cal into question all of those who randomly pull numbers out of the air and say things like “pitchers in the 60’s-80’s barely threw 90” or “Pitchers in the 20’s threw in the 70’s”. They don’t know because very few were tested. Steve Carlton and Ryan battled it out for the all-time K record for years. The lead switched back and forth many times. Carlton became known for his devastating slider but he didn’t always have that pitch. He was K’ing batters with a blazing FB before he developed his slider. It’s hard to believe he was only tossing at 90 mph. The same can be said for many others as well.
Let teams make personnel decisions. If they want 16 pitchers, let them. If they want 4 catchers or 1 catcher, let them. If they want 5 infielders on one side of the field, let them. Stretch the rosters to 28 and 42 man roster instead of 40.
Hitters are striking out more because all position players are trying to hit home runs with every swing. This includes # 7&8 hitters batting .180. This is a ridiculous turn of events.
It’s a start anyways
Real world implications – Pitchers arms will be even more abused and more injs
Make believe world – We shave 3.5 minutes off the game
They should be adding more roster spots for arms not taking them away
Only in baseball Does stupid sh%t like this stick to the wall
Once upon a time Starters made around 40 starts per season and many threw complete games in half or more of those starts. Mike Marshall pitched at least 90 games out of the bullpen in three different seasons (including his age 36 season) and pitched until he was 38 and his arm didn’t fall off. You can’t tell me that with all of the scientific and technological advances over the last 50 years that somehow they knew something in the 1970’s that they don’t know now. It comes down to Pitchers being throwers and not pitchers. Poor mechanics and trying to throw 100mph on every pitch is the problem, not the number of Pitchers on the roster or the pace of play
Well….these mechanics are not coming back overnight…..so in reality this will cause more injs….
We can pray to the ghosts of the past and complain about how soft these guys are but that’s not going to stop them heading to the IL in groves
Things are the way they are right now for better or worse. The fact they go full effort now (and probably ) need more re-coup time makes this idea even more dumb
This season has been a disaster with injs , and now the Comish wants to put arms in greater danger next year? Not a good look, not a good look.
Pitchers’ arms have always been abused. Koufax and Drysdale both had their careers shortened by Alston pushing them beyond what their arms could handle. Alston wasn’t the only manager who did that, of course. They all did. The difference is that we now know not to do that, though it has possibly become too extreme on the other end. It’s also possible that modern players aren’t training in ways that are best suited for the game of baseball. Whatever it is, people in baseball need to figure it out because it is wrecking players at all levels, especially pitchers.
They dropped the mound from 15 inches to 10 in 1968. Perhaps lifting the mound back to 15 will save injuries and speed the game. Maybe it will force hitters to change their approaches?
Hitters wear arm padding and crowd the plate. Hit by pitches have been up the last 25 years than the prior 25 years. Guys are hit in the face by standing closer to the plate. Guys didn’t wear it before the strike. Two major differences from today and 50+ years ago.
I still want an ump behind the plate. He can use an Iphone or Apple Watch type device to reference to announce the call. We hate umps but they love baseball as much or more than many fans. They are as much a part of the game as the 7th inning stretch. How many of you watch compilations of arguments with umps, ejections, and so on.
When you think of Earl Weaver, Billy Martin, Bobby Cox, Lou Piniella, or Jim Leyland, are any epic ump yelling moments popping into your head? Classic anger induced ejections? I am not a Braves fan, but I am an Astros fan so I have seen quite a few games against Bobby Cox and his Braves. That dude must have laced whatever his complaints with the call with lewd comments about the ump’s mother, wife, sister, or something because he seemed like he got rung up alot without even leaving the dugout or being particularly animated or anywhere near the umpire. That might be anecdotal and not necessarily accurate but it is how I remember Cox ejections.
I missed Phil Garner getting ejected in the first inning because of traffic, we were late for the game, but the next game or two I went to, Garner got ejected in the first inning. I know a computer controlled strike zone and improved replay will get rid of that type of confrontation, but still, I want the umps there.
Even the ones that need to visit the optometrist.
I also would like them to figure out replay. Speed it up, dedicate an replay ump for each game, something. Just get the calls right.
P.S. Ban Angel Hernandez from all major and minor league stadiums. He can go, uh hum, blow calls at church softball games. When he is no longer an umpire, I cannot wait to yell, “you’re outta here”.
Maybe the umps could wear a wire to tell them whether the pitch was a strike or a ball. I agree that having someone back there making the calls is a good thing. I also think there should be an extra “monitor” to make sure there are no obvious glitches.
Stop trying to change the game!!!
If you want the K’s to decrease, how about teach the hitters how to actually hit?!? The league is filled with guys who are all or nothing. Homer or a K. And it’s not like we’re getting multiple 50+ HR guys each year either.
That would be nice, but unfortunately, their egos are too large to be willing to not just simply jack the ball out of the park all of the time, even if they are not power hitters.
MLB’s ability to create a bigger problem out of an aspiring solution is impressive. hitting was fine last year, then the ball was de-juiced. isnt the fix clear here?
Was hitting fine, or just the homers? It seems like they just want to see the ball in play more, increase batting averages, and on field action. Instead of the three outcome.
Hitting last year wasn’t much different than it is now. What we didn’t fully see in the short schedule was how pitchers were adapting to the MLB-choreographed home-run explosion.
I think MLBN did a disservice to hitters by choreographing an increase in homers in an attempt to take fans’ attention away from the rise in strikeouts (they must think fans are stupid). When they did that, it forced pitchers to adjust to the launch-angle way of teaching hitting, which the pitchers have done very well. They found the flaw in the launch, which is hitters being unable to handle the high heat.
I went from thinking MLB should push the mound back to now thinking they should do nothing. The pitchers adjusted. Now it’s the hitters’ turn, though granted it might take a while. There are signs it is happening, though, I recent weeks, noted launch-angler Max Muncy has begun shooting the ball the other way and up the middle with fantastic results. Hitters need to change their approach. One thing I’d hate to see is MLB continuing to tinker with the equipment (i.e, the baseball). Messing with the ball is a bad look for the game because it lends an appearance that what fans are seeing isn’t on the up-and-up. A game so indebted to its statistical history needs to do better than that.
Short term, fans will have to tolerate the strikeouts alongside the current rise in injuries. But in the long run, the game will be better off. As fans, we’ve seen a lifetime of examples of pitchers, hitters, and fielders adjusting to what’s going on. We see it every time a hotshot rookie goes around the league for a second time. The best players adjust. The lesser ones join the normal workforce with the rest of us. It’s part of the baseball strategy we all love. Reacting to what the opposition is doing.
So you’re wrote 1000 words on how hitters and pitchers have had to adjust in the past, in order to justify Manfred NOT giving hitters the time to adjust? His constant changing of rules, the ball, etc is taking away the players ability to adjust to a new norm. There’s no norm at this point. Hasn’t been a norm in 5 years? Maybe more?
Your point is right tho. Guys have adjusted since the start of the game. But Instead Manfred is now trying to force his image of baseball onto the current game. It’s honestly a gross abuse of influence. Who tf cares what Manfred wants, other than Manfred?
You wanna fix the game? Just fix the strike zone. It’s already hard enough to hit in MLB with a large number of guys throwing 100, but then every night there’s videos of umpires calling strikes 3-5 inches, or more, off the plate for strikeouts. Screw messing with the ball and limiting pitchers and essentially limiting teams ability to build their roster. That’s lame af and really isn’t what a commissioner should be doing. Give them a fair equal strike zone that’s consistent night over night, and I’d bet offense sees an uptick
This whole “take the first 5 innings to learn the umpires strike zone” is such an antiquated part of the game. Manfred wants to change a million things yet drags his feet to fix the most basic
1- I’m Ready for Robo umps and I’m sure tech is as well
2- Ban the shift, it took me a couple years to get here but I’m here fully now. Utopian world ,hitters would adjust, we don’t live in Utopia tho
3- No step outs for batters, pitcher clock strictly enforced, Rock and fire baby. This is common practice at 15 yr old travel ball games for field availability- Can probably chop near 15 mins off of nut scratches
Instead of f—ing with the game, just fire Manfred.
I swear he’s the love child of Gary Bettman and Roger Goodell created to make them look more competent.
Manfred makes Selig look like a good commissioner.
Yawn. Mlb focusing on the wrong crap once again
Going to be fun watching infielders pitch in games when both teams eclipse 13 pitchers.
All of this is trending towards the inevitability no one wants to talk about – we are going to see baseball shortened to 7 inning games in my lifetime. It could happen in the next decade. Hate the extra innings “runner on 2nd rule”? I think it will eventually be kept for games that go into the 10th, 8th and 9th will be normal extra innings, if games are tied after 7. Career stats are becoming less and less relevant in baseball as players don’t play 162 games, starters don’t go deep into games, and the entire league focuses on a 3 outcome approach to each AB. So it seems like there are very few reasons anymore to not shorten the games.
Unfortunately, I agree with most of what you are saying. I can’t really understand all these fundamental changes to the game. Seems as if they’re alienating a portion of their core fan base, while trying to attract an audience that has not only shown their disdain for the game, but worse yet, apathy.
From the beginning of his MLB career in 1951, through 1959, Mickey Mantle had 63 bunt base hits and 54 triples.
Reinstitute 9 inning games. This 7 inning trash is pathetic
It absolutely is
Institute the Athletics out of Oakland
This is really dumb. If they want to cut down on strikeouts go after the bad umps. Most of them seem to think a pitch is a strike even if it’s two or three inches outside.
There wont be umps calling balls and strikes soon.
MLB will do exactly nada without MLBPA approval for 2022. They are going to be negotiating a new CBA this offseason and the MLBPA is not going to take any garbage from MLB like limiting jobs.
So if you shrink the strike zone, won’t that lead to more walks which leads to longer games ?
Yes
One would think with expanded playoffs and increased likelihood of injuries that keeping the ability to have extra pitchers on the roster would be a good thing.