With a burgeoning payroll, can the White Sox find a strong replacement for Carlos Rodon and upgrade at second base and/or right field?
Guaranteed Contracts
- Yasmani Grandal, C: $36.5MM through 2023
- Dallas Keuchel, SP: $19.5MM through 2022. Includes $20MM club option for 2023
- Jose Abreu, 1B: $18MM through 2022
- Craig Kimbrel, RP: $16MM through 2022
- Liam Hendriks, RP: $42MM through 2024 (technically through ’23 but the option and buyout prices are the same)
- Lance Lynn, SP: $38MM through 2023. Includes $18MM club option for 2024
- Tim Anderson, SS: $10.5MM through 2022. Includes $12.5MM club option for ’23 and $14MM club option for ’24
- Yoan Moncada, 3B: $59MM through 2024. Includes $25MM club option for ’25
- Kendall Graveman, RP: $24MM through 2024
- Eloy Jimenez, LF: $32MM through 2024. Includes $16.5MM club option for ’25 and $18.5MM club option for ’26
- Luis Robert, CF: $45MM through 2025. Includes $20MM club options for ’26 and ’27
- Leury Garcia, IF: $16.5MM through 2024.
- Aaron Bummer, RP: $13MM through 2024. Includes $7.25MM club option for ’25 and $7.5MM club option for ’26
Arbitration-Eligible Players (projections from MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Lucas Giolito, SP: $7.9MM
- Adam Engel, CF: $2.2MM
- Reynaldo Lopez, P: $2.8MM
Option Decisions
- Declined $6MM club option on 2B Cesar Hernandez
- Exercised $16MM club option on RP Craig Kimbrel
Free Agents
- Ryan Tepera, Brian Goodwin, Cesar Hernandez, Billy Hamilton, Evan Marshall
The White Sox won the AL Central this year, marking back-to-back playoff appearances for the first time in the club’s storied 121-year history. Prior to 2020, the team hadn’t even put together a winning record since 2012. The White Sox are here to stay as a perennial contender, even if they went quietly to the Astros in the ALDS this year. As you can see in the contracts section above, the team has already locked up core pieces and should have relatively strong continuity for the next several years.
Several significant moves and non-moves took place prior to the December 2nd lockout. The White Sox made a pair of unsurprising option decisions, cutting second baseman Cesar Hernandez loose and retaining reliever Craig Kimbrel. I wonder if the Kimbrel decision represents something of a sunk cost fallacy, with the Sox having surrendered former first rounder Nick Madrigal plus reliever Codi Heuer to acquire Kimbrel from the Cubs at the July deadline. Who the White Sox gave up, of course, should have had no bearing on Kimbrel’s option decision. The team only had 25 innings in which to evaluate Kimbrel, during which his extreme home run tendencies returned.
Since 2019, Kimbrel has been an effective pitcher for only the 36 2/3 innings at the beginning of the ’21 season. But in those 39 games, Kimbrel was utterly dominant, allowing only two earned runs. Even heading into his age-34 season, Kimbrel is undoubtedly one of the top strikeout relievers in the game, ranking third in that metric since 2020. The question is whether home run and walk proclivities will be an issue in 2022, and I don’t think anyone really knows the answer. The White Sox, who appear to be bumping up against their payroll limit, gambled $16MM that Good Kimbrel will show up over the next 60 innings or at least that they can unload him to positive effect.
White Sox GM Rick Hahn spoke openly about trading Kimbrel, saying, “We’ve had conversations with other clubs and have a sense of what is potentially available.” Hahn added, “It’s easy to make the assessment that if you put him back in the closer’s role, it’s what he’s accustomed to and he’s more likely to have success.” That’s not a particularly reliable assessment: put Kimbrel back in a closer role, and he’ll be good again.
The White Sox struck a pre-lockout deal with one of the top free agent relivers in Kendall Graveman, seemingly only increasing the chances of a Kimbrel trade. Possible matches for Kimbrel could include the Tigers and Royals, but intra-division trades among contenders can be tough. The Rangers, Blue Jays, Marlins, and Phillies make some theoretical sense, but it will not be easy for Hahn to find a team willing to take on a $16MM closer and give up a player of value. Hahn has gambled that whatever he gets back will be better than just paying the $1MM buyout on Kimbrel and spending the money in free agency.
The White Sox also made the curious choice not to issue the one-year, $18.4MM qualifying offer to Carlos Rodon. Rodon was a surprise Cy Young contender through mid-July, but wore down thereafter and experienced a velocity dip. Soon after the Rodon decision, Noah Syndergaard, with two innings under his belt from 2020-21, snagged a one-year, $21MM deal from the Angels. Hahn offered little insight into the team’s decision, saying, “We made the assessment based on everything we know, which includes our needs and our other targets, that that wasn’t an offer we were comfortable making at this time.”
The implication is that the White Sox felt that A) there was a real chance of Rodon accepting the QO and B) that would have been a bad thing for the team. On both fronts, the team has more information than we do. We don’t know exactly how Scott Boras played it and if maybe he bluffed his way out of the QO by intimating they might accept. Afterward, of course, Boras acted as if there was never a chance Rodon would accept. Additionally, no one knows Rodon’s health better than the White Sox. Health concerns are one potential justification for not offering the QO to Rodon. If the club thought Rodon is likely to provide even 100 innings of 3.50 ball in 2022, the QO is an easy yes.
There’s also the chance that the White Sox budgeted $20MM+ for a potential frontline starter, and they wanted to keep their options open and attempt to acquire someone they feel is better than Rodon. Case in point Justin Verlander, in whom the Sox “showed strong interest” prior to his re-upping with the Astros, according to Bob Nightengale. The White Sox already have a projected rotation of Lance Lynn, Lucas Giolito, Dylan Cease, Dallas Keuchel, and Michael Kopech. Allowing that they could attempt to dump Keuchel’s salary, there’s generally room for only one addition. Save for perhaps Clayton Kershaw, who’s unlikely to sign in Chicago, free agency doesn’t offer anyone of Rodon’s caliber. The post-lockout trade market, however, could be robust. If Hahn were to come up with, say, Frankie Montas, the Rodon decision would look reasonable.
Second base remains a clear area of need for the White Sox. Nick Madrigal is now across town, and the club declined Cesar Hernandez’s option after he posted a 70 wRC+ for them. The White Sox have Leury Garcia back in the fold as a fallback, but they could consider acquiring Jean Segura, Ketel Marte, Josh Harrison, DJ LeMahieu, Jeff McNeil, or Jed Lowrie. Also consider the summer report that the White Sox were interested in acquiring Trevor Story and playing him at second base back in July. If multiyear offers are not to Story’s liking, he could land in Chicago on a one-year deal and attempt to pull a Marcus Semien. I don’t think a Semien reunion was ever a consideration for the White Sox, but they have seen a few more affordable second base options come off the board in Chris Taylor and Eduardo Escobar.
Since the White Sox non-tendered Avisail Garcia three years ago, they’ve been searching for a solution in right field. In the three years that followed, Ryan Cordell, Nomar Mazara, and Adam Eaton were their innings leaders at the position. Aside from Leury Garcia, the club has solid internal options for ’22 in Andrew Vaughn, Gavin Sheets, and Adam Engel. Vaughn, the most promising hitter of the bunch, spent most of ’21 filling in at the other outfield corner with Eloy Jimenez out. The club is not in desperation mode here, but they figure to monitor the market. What the White Sox do with right field might depend on the caliber of player they add for the rotation and second base. Available right field-capable players could include Kris Bryant, Nick Castellanos, Michael Conforto, Wil Myers, Max Kepler, Cody Bellinger, Joey Gallo, Jorge Soler, Andrew McCutchen, and Manuel Margot, though not all of those would be upgrades over internal options.
Along with all these permutations, the team’s payroll must be considered. The White Sox’ 2021 Opening Day payroll of $128.7MM was an all-time high, just a hair above where they peaked a decade prior. The team currently has 13 players under contract for 2022 at a total of $152.75MM, plus a projected $12.9MM for their arbitration eligible trio. That brings the total to around $165MM for 15 players, with an MLB-wide expected minimum salary increase on the way. It’s unclear how far owner Jerry Reinsdorf is willing to go and how much of Kimbrel and perhaps Keuchel’s salary can be cleared. Abreu, Keuchel, and Kimbrel are off the books after ’22, though the club figures to attempt to extend Abreu. Plus, the club has scheduled or expected raises to Moncada, Anderson, Giolito, Robert, Jimenez, and Bummer in ’23.
Rodon was the top White Sox pitcher by WAR in 2021 in just 132 2/3 innings, so replacing his production will not be easy. Though the team’s four division-mates didn’t put up much of a fight in ’21, the Tigers have already made major additions. All five clubs now fancy themselves contenders. While the White Sox are still the AL Central favorite currently, there’s work to be done once the lockout ends.
will if they decline the option on Kimbrel…oh wait.
and hold up, what about DJ as a 2B option? why would the Yankees move him?
Yeah, I think NYY would be more likely to trade Gleyber Torres than DJLM.
Unlikely that the White Sox have the trade capital to get either one (or Joey Gallo) without parting with planned MLB contributors, which would just create more holes to fill.
There’s no indication the Yankees are looking to move DJLM, but I also don’t see why they’d be against it. His contract is quite possibly underwater. 33 years old, he would not get 5/75 on the open market right now. I don’t see why taking on that contract would require the White Sox to give up planned MLB contributors.
I stand corrected.
But still think it’s more likely that NYY trades Torres than DJLM, I don’t think the White Sox would take on DJLM’s 5/75, and their weak farm will be a challenge to acquiring Gallo or Torres.
The Yankees already have Chapman in place. I doubt they open yet another hole in the INF/OF, to acquire another CL.
Maybe a f the Yankees re-sign Rizzo and sign Story and Bryant afterwards.
Then flip Torres/Gallo for Kimbrel/Vaughn. That’s the only way I see it.
1.LeMahieu 2B
2.Story SS
3.Rizzo 1B
4.Judge RF
5.Bryant 3B
6.Stanton DH
7.Vaughn LF
8.Sánchez C
9.Hicks/Inciarte CF
Dallas Keuchel and Kimbrel for McNeil and JD Davis and or Dom Smith
I don’t see the logic there for the Mets.
Mets need a starter and a lock down 8th or 9th inning bullpen arm
they can get production in those positions for less in free agency.
Kimbrel was definitely not lockdown after the trade to the White Sox. And he was bad in 2019 and 2020, too. And Keuchel was really bad last year, too. Quick look, that’s about $35M for questionable production. That’s not something teams are going to give up a lot of value for.
Dark side—-you stand directed——the Mets can get better production from a dumpster than Keuchel and Kimbrel for over $30M. Why on earth would any contender want Keuchel? And Kimbrel for $16M for one year…..no way the Mets give up any of those guys for that.
They need better ones than Keuchel and Kimbrel at that price plus taking on the money. Plus they really need McNeil as either a starter or a quasi-Zobrist role. Don’t understand why everyone thinks McNeil is so expendable.
Lol
Swap out Cano for either Davis or Smith and it would be a fair deal. He would fill their 2B hole.
Could just trade him
that assumes anyone wants him. I thinl Kimbrel is still a viable RP, but $16 million doesnt leave a lot of surplus value, if anything.
If no one wanted him for $16m they would hace declined the option. And possibly brought him back for less $.
Maybe they made a musrake.
Mistake
yes, im suggesting they just miscalculated, which can happen, or maybe you see some sunk-cost fallacy at play here.
I imagine they asked around to see how much interest in Kimbrel there was or wasn’t before they option deadline rolled around. If no one was willing to take hum they could always have declined the option then brought him back for less $.
Baseball Trade Values has him at $600k surplus value. So not going to get anything special for him but if they can get so much as an org filler they still come out on top because they get out from under his buyout.
In any event, picking up his option just because they gave up Nick Madrigal for him is the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard.
Merry Christmas
And yes the White Sox can upgrade and replace Rodon.
2B the White Sox should go after Ryan McMahon of the Rockies. 2 years of arb left and one of the “cheaper” options on the market. His away stat line drives down the value alot even though he was a 4 win player last year. White Sox dont really have a lot of trade chips but McMahon would certainly hold down 2B for the next 2 years.
Far as upgrading from Rodon, Zach Greinke. Keep him around 150 innings each season and i definitely think you get good value out of a 2 year deal. He was ok in regular season, may have dealt with injuries not 100% sure so maybe an astros fan can explain his uncharacteristic regular season, but he was amazing in the post season.
If McMahon were available there would be a lot of suitors. He may be the best defensive infielder (non-SS variety) in the game, or perhaps second to Chapman. Whatever the Rockies’ faults, they definitely know how to develop defensive infielders. He comes wiith big left handed power and I’d guess more of a ceiling than he’s displayed so far, if you get him away from that organization. And luckily enough, the Rox have not one but two promising third basemen just about ready, and their star prospect (Brendan Rodgers) plays second. I think that might just be a productive call.
If the Mets are giving away Jeff McNeil there could be the White Sox future 2B. Buy low offer the Mets a RP and plug him in.
Personally I think an outfielder would be more important than a second baseman, Leury can play league average 2B
I prefer Leury in the utility role, but he wouldn’t be terrible at 2B. And there should be infielders available at low cost in free agency who can provide average production at 2B (e.g, Villar, Josh Harrison, Jose Iglesias), so I’m not super concerned there.
I agree that RF is more important because I don’t trust Engel to be healthy and productive, mediocre defense from Vaughn/Sheets is a problem (especially with Eloy in LF), and I’d rather Vaughn/Sheet focus on their hitting. Unlike 2B, there aren’t inexpensive upgrades available for RF, so I’m worried the Sox won’t do anything.
Castellanos on a 4 yr deal might work.. Soler, Rosario and Duvall are all options too.
Castellanos will be expensive, and I don’t see them making any big multi-year commitments given the long-term contracts they already have which will keep getting more expensive. And Soler and Rosario probably aren’t real upgrades over what they have now, so not worth expending resources on them.
I agree with you, but I do think that Soler could be a great player. His massive power plus serviceable defense could be an upgrade
Yeah right, lol, followed by an eye roll! Reinsdorf is going to spend what it would take, to get Castellanos. Ha ha.
Plus the Chisox already have enough DHs in their daily lineup, to fill the entire division.
What part of “record roster payroll…” do you not understand? The White Sox are trending in the right direction when it comes to spending. They just need to spend a fraction more to get the right upgrades this year. Then they’re to seriously contend for the next 3 years. You should be happy that atleast one team in this town is doing what it’s supposed to do to win championships.
The term ‘record payroll’, and White Sox being used in the same sentence- doesn’t have the same meaning as ‘record payroll’ would mean if it was used attached to another franchise.
The fact you state the Sox are ‘trending in the right direction’, indicates you know better than that.
Duvall is not an option as he is on the Braves
Dogbone- why do you have such a strong bias against the White Sox? To the point where it affects basic judgement of the team that is common knowledge?
It’s very common knowledge that Reinsdorf is cheap. Ask the taxpayers from Illinois, Arizona and Florida. All whom have (and still are, in Ill and AZ) helping to foot his bills. Florida taxpayers built a stadium for Reinsdorf when he used them, by dangling his franchise. By the way, I’m definitely not a fan of Ricketts either.
Oh, and ‘baseball fan who doesn’t like the Cubs’. Why do YOU have such a strong bias against the Cubs, that you need to express that bias, in your log in name? I guess you overlooked that.
Waaaah, Reinsdorf is cheap. Waaah, Reinsdorf stole my binky…Waaah
Note how Dogtroll started by liking his own posts and then forgot to after a while. Shows the massive reach of his posts (since most people have it on mute)
Giants really wanted Kimbrel last deadline
Wouldn’t mind if they ate the cash and got a prospect alongside him
Why would the White Sox attach a prospect to get rid of a guy who they just exercised their club option on that’s a terrible argument.
Then why speculate that he’s going to be traded? Unless Sox eat the contract no one wants to pay that money for Kimbrel and thus won’t give up anything of value. And if the Sox eat the contract then what’s the point of trading him if you’re trying to save money? Lose-lose
No team is eating money or attaching prospects to dump a guy who they JUST picked up their option on.
Hahn’s commentary is the cause for speculation, but if the intent were to shed salary then why exercise the option on Kimbrell in the first place? I believe he will serve as set up man for CHW…. While Kimbrell made mistakes and got rocked in a small sample size, he still showed the ability to get good hitters out with wipeout ace reliever quality stuff. I expect him to bounce back
Typical thirsty Giants fan. I lump 99% of them with NY/LA/Bos soorts fans—Virtually non-thinking and entitled.
I say sign Tadahito Iguchi for 2B, Jermaine Dye for RF, and El Duque for the 5th starter. The Ghost of Christmas Past has spoken.
Dude, I was fantasizing about this last month. lol
Adding Jermaine Dye is (his prime) and Tadahito to this roster would be EPIC. They would be unbeatable in a five or seven game playoff series.
*(in his prime)…
I think Tadahito at age 47 might still be as good as some of the stiffs the Sox have tried at 2B. I was at Comiskey for this play images.app.goo.gl/6GrXtF11tcMNnnqs6 one of the best plays I’ve ever seen.
Add in a pre injury Harold in RF, Dick Allen at DH, Minnie off the bench and Goose Gossage/Terri Forster in the pen. Ed Cicotte and a crafty Jim Kaat as your #4. Now you’re talking. And based on their earning histories, you should be able to pick up all 7 for under $1.5 mill. Do it Rick. Have them re-emerge through the corn cobs
2B has to be the top priority for the White Sox. Unlike with RF where they have some potentially solid internal options for 2022 and beyond, they do not have many good ones at the keystone aside from perhaps Yolbert Sanchez late next year or by opening day in 2023. They could use some additional depth in other areas including another SP, RP and a veteran backup C with some defensive acumen.
hi aaron. long time…no talk. happy holidays!
i have a slightly different view. by now, it’s no secret to anyone that despite the oft repeated sox promise of “we will spend,” the sox WILL NOT SPEND. however, that might be okay. we don’t need a fifth starter, so spending on that would be a total waste! why? we’re a “shoo in” to make the playoffs, and a fifth rotation guy has no bearing on anything in the playoffs. we differ on our opinions of where we have prospects…my view on sox outfield prospects is that we’re very unlikely to have even one outfield prospect that will EVER PROVE WORTHY of setting foot on a major league field!! however, even you pointed out that yolbert sanchez is a viable prospect for 2nd base. so is romy gonzalez. failing that, leury is more than passable at the position, especially since his 2021 season showed a much greater willingness to take pitches (at bat). if you check the platoon splits of sheets and vaughn, you should notice that sheets/vaughn is a very credible dh. so, we’re okay there. therefore, by process of elimination, right field is where WE DO NEED TO SPEND! my preferences (in order) are 1) seiya suzuki, 2) kris bryant, 3) nick castellanos, 4) michael conforto (to platoon with adam engel. since i can’t realistically see the sox “paying up” for any of the first 3, i hope that they’ll (at least) go after conforto…instead of opting for yet, another year of a likely stinking pile of crap. will we ever learn that lesson?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whatever $ the sox are willing to spend after acquiring our regular right fielder should be spent on the bullpen and backup catcher.
rjh
They might not need a 5th starter to start the season, but they do need starting pitching depth. Kopech will likely be on an innings limit and Keuchel shouldn’t be pitching past the 5th inning too often. With inevitable injuries, they need more pitchers to eat innings if nothing else. Reylo is a decent swingman option (though his history doesn’t inspire great confidence). Beyond that, there are only unproven minor leaguers like Lambert and Steiver.
They don’t need to spend a lot of money on it, but they should add one or two SP to their ranks for depth purposes.
I’m less concerned about the bullpen, with or without Kimbrel. Relief pitching is too unpredictable to spend more than they already are on Hendriks, Graveman, and Bummer (and maybe Kimbrel). I’d be fine giving some of the minor league arms already in the system a shot to see if any rise to the occasion, and use resources on 2B/RF/SP instead.
I do agree that money should be spent on RF.
“WILL NOT SPEND?”
They are going to be north of $170M next year if they don’t move Kimbrel, and probably even if they do.
Yeah that was a lot of blithering by rjh on a pretty facile and inaccurate post. If by not spending, one means not chasing productive veterans based on prior performance to the tune of 10 yrs/$250 mill plus into their late 30s. Then yeah. No Miggy or Albert. But the Sox have been one of the most forward thinking about scouting their prospects and locking up younger players through their most productive years. Look at how they’ve locked down their core- and how they parlayed savvy contracts of Sale, Q and Eaton into surplus value
RF Blake Rutherford
you’re right that the sox have done some very smart things, dumpty. but it’s difficult to win a championship…so you have to keep doing those smart things, over and over again. that means not “drinking someone else’s coolade.” a perfect example of that coolade would be the very next post, which suggests that blake rutherford can be the sox right fielder!! i guess rallyshirt thinks that a player who has STUNK at every level of minor league baseball can come to the major leagues and become a star!!!!!!!!! it’s reminiscent of many of last year’s “suggestions” that collins could be a major league catcher after more than a 40% strikeout rate in the minors, with a batting average just above or below the “mendoza line,” and known to be weak defensively!!!!!!!!!!!! i wish the commenters on this site would do some homework…so that the rest of us can endure through such a mountain of malarkey.
Rjh- rock star post. Love the passion and points for referencing Collins and beating me to my next point, which would have been, why not Blake Rutherford? Post here more often plz!
Considering the recent injury history of this club, it’s somewhat surprising to hear a Sox fan claim four legit starters is enough depth for a championship run. The reality is, you can never have too much pitching. That, plus all of said starters have been prone to injury. If one guy goes down for a lengthy stint, the Sox would be in trouble. Lastly, I’m predicting a much tighter AL Central than most anticipate in 2022. The Sox could mess around and find themselves in 2nd or 3rd place by September if they don’t keep their foot on the gas.
lol why would the Sox spend $ and go after big free agents it’s not like there close or went through rebuild and have some good players on cheap deals ….. plus only a few teams spend really big the Néw York and LA team last time i haven’t been in geography in like 15 years but if i remember i think Chicago is like the 137th biggest city in US
White Sox made the classic mistake of spending on big names in free agency before their rebuild was fully cooked.
The Chisox HAD to overpay, otherwise Keuchel and Grandal would never have signed with them. Oh, and the White Sox still need a starting caliber catcher.
White Sox shouldn’t have splurged so soon… should’ve been more patient and rode the rebuild a bit longer
EVERY team has to overspend to attract top free agents. That’s how it goes. I don’t see any elite players taking less money to come to the northside. Do you?
There’s this guy Stroman, who I would much prefer to Keuchel. And he came with only a 2 year commitment.
3.7 fWAR in 375 PAs, if that’s not a starting caliber catcher, then there are about 25 teams that need the same thing.
Seriously? Stroman is just an innings eater at this point… 3rd or 4th starter. We all know Cubbie fans have a propensity for low risk/low expectation, but if that is your expectation then enjoy.
Are you saying that you’d prefer Keuchel to Stroman? Or are you just strawmanning?
No, I’m saying Signing Stroman to a short contract to eat innings on a bad team doesn’t move the needle one way or the other for the Cubs. He’s not an Ace.
1984—2021 the White Sox defensive runs saved at catcher was -21 DEAD LAST in the majors….
Grandal in the inverse Jason Heyward—he is a very good offensive player but he is terrible, terrible, terrible behind the plate. Can’t block a pitch, can’t catch a throw on a tag play, is not a threat to stop a running game…….
He has the largest contract in team history—-the fact that the White Sox are not media darlings is the only reason that signing isn’t getting dragged through the mud.
I think Dogbone is pretty biased in most of his posts, but he is 100% spot on saying the Sox need a starting catcher.
Grandal is top 5 catcher in the game, Period. We currently do not need a new catcher..
Well done twtw. Well done. One q from yout most otherwise exquisite and complete essay. “what about Danks?”
The Kimbrel trade was a big mistake, compounded by picking up his option. I also think they should of stretched out Kopech a little more. He can’t be counted on to start for the entire yr. The Sox are blowing their chances by making some pretty bad decsions barring the Graveman pickup. Kimbrel for Mcneil might be the best they could hope for but I don’t think the Mets would bite but that would free up enough to pay for half of Conforto..
I don’t think the Mets would bite, unless there’s a solid prospect or two heading to NY in the deal as well.
The Kimbrel trade was not a mistake. He was the last piece of the puzzle to win a World Series. It just turned out incredibly bad. It wasn’t a mistake going for it. Hindsight is very simple.
I’ve been a big time fan of Kimbrel for many yrs., love the guy but at the time of the trade I thought it was a bad mistake so hindsight has/had nothing to do with it. I applaud the idea of going for it but there were many better options than the one they made. The cost was steep but if they had been smarter they would’nt be in the mess they’re in. The answer of course is Jerry Reinsdorf needs to shell out more money if they want to win a W.S.
agreed, but we shouldn’t be allowed to do something like that UNLESS WE’RE EQUALLY WILLING TO BUILD BACK BETTER, if a failure occurs…as it did!
rjh
agreed! see comment to bbcalmc…
right, mike…but we have to clear that mistake by building back better. it’s going to cost money. ARE WE WILLING?????
rjh
No.
I can’t believe they mentioned my Tigers as a suiter for Kimbrel. I’ll be appalled if they get him, lol. Our BP wasn’t bad last season and Alexander will go to help it if we get another SP. After the lockout is going to be so fun and interesting!!
Poverty franchise, they can’t afford anything until more than 100 people start showing up to their games.
Clueless comment, they were 14th overall in MLB with an average of 20,466 fans per home game
“The team currently has 13 players under contract for 2022 at a total of $152.75MM, plus a projected $12.9MM for their arbitration eligible trio. That brings the total to around $165MM for 15 players, with an MLB-wide expected minimum salary increase on the way.”
But, hey, everybody knows they won’t spend money.
According to the people that post here, any owner that isn’t spending $300m/yr is cheap and needs to just sell their team!
So you’re trying to say there are no “cheap” owners in the MLB?
It would be hard to believe that the White Sox couldn’t get the same production out of Kopech or Crochet if Rodon signs elsewhere. An innings eater like Martin Perez could probably be had for the same, if not less than what they paid Rodon last season.
With Micker Adolfo and Yoelqui Cespedes possibly factoring into the equation this season i don’t see the White Sox making a significant Outfield upgrade. Robert in CF with some combination of Eloy Jimenez/Andrew Vaughn/Gavin Sheets/Adam Engle/Leury Garcia flanking him at the corners and one serving as the DH in any given game isn’t terrible.
2B is really the only true need. I don’t see them rolling with Garcia/Mendick/Burger and there are fairly inexpensive options with varying skill sets. Jose Iglesias, Asdrubal Cabrera, Josh Harrison can all be had on 1 year contracts. Or even a rebound player like Starling Castro can all be had on the cheap.
The White Sox don’t really need much and don’t really have to spend a lot to get it
I stopped reading at Micker Adolfo. lol
I can’t believe anyone thinks saying $18MM for 100 innings is a no brainer. Have you looked at more than last year for Rodon’s career record? The overall track record makes you doubt the quality of the results, as well as reliability of producing 100 innings. Kimbrel shows better reliability and everyone questions his contract at $2MM less. That Rodon has Boros trying for a multi year contract after getting injured at years end, shows me he is not willing to bet on himself repeating that performance. The smart money would be to sign a one year pillow contract for max dollars, and then go for the long term money.
@stymeedone Exactly. Rodon isn’t of much value to a team trying to win in October, when he hasn’t been healthy at the end of the season in 6 years. He was great last year for part of the season, pitched very little in the 2nd half, and even with 2 weeks rest prior to his playoff start, barely lasted 2 innings. That’s not the guy a team with a penny pinching owner should bet their hopes on. I think there is a half way decent chance they will wind up signing him anyway, and that he will either be injured or fatigued for the playoffs, again. Because it’s how the Sox run things.
“Those aren’t pillows!”
Reynaldo Lopez finally looked like an MLB caliber SP last year. I wouldn’t exclude him from the rotation picture at this point.
Going into the year with him as the #5 and seeing how things play out isn’t a bad option.
agreed…and cut keuchel (as we did adam eaton), if he’s the 2021 version of himself.
rjh
Would you rather have Keuchel eating innings over the course of 162 alongside Reylo? Or, just Reylo to pick up the rest of the innings AND have to still pay Keuchels salary? Factor into your calculation that Kopech will likely be on a leash like Cease was.
That would depend on the continued progress that Reynaldo Lopez showed following his Lasik eye surgery last May followed up by his extensive work with pitching coach Ethan Katz once he was promoted from AAA Charlotte in early July. With Lopez initially promoted to a bullpen role, Katz had him focus on just two pitches, his 4-seam fastball and slider. He had excellent success in his new role as a long reliever and opener. When Lopez was needed to help out the rotation in a more full time role later in August and September he needed to be sufficiently stretched out while also incorporating his curveball and changeup.
The following excellent article documents Lopez 2021 season and his likely role with the White Sox in 2022: soxon35th.com/what-to-do-with-lopez-in-2022/
Yes. It also appears that the pitching issues Reynaldo Lopez has had was directly related to a vision problem that eye surgery corrected this past May. Until his procedure, Lopez had been experiencing blurriness throughout his professional career that he attributed to other factors and not his eyes. WTF!
nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-butterfl…
He got hammered in September pretty hard. I doubt he will contribute anything beyond a mediocre yet hopefully adequate bullpen piece. We’ll see.
Reynaldo Lopez, like many other pitchers including a few on the White Sox, seemed to hit a wall in September following the shortened 2020 season. He had also been used mainly in relief before the White Sox needed him in their rotation in August and September.
Lopez dominated the A’s and a depleted Cubs lineup in late August when he was finally able to stretch out to 5 innings. He also finished with 6 strong innings versus the Reds in his final start of 2021 on September 28th. Two poor outings in September inflated his season ERA to a still very respectable 3.43, a mid-September start versus the Angels when he allowed 7 runs (6 earned) in 4 innings and then a 9th inning relief appearance in the season finale versus the Tigers when he was charged with 3 ER’s in 1/3 of an inning. He was stingy with the long ball until September when he allowed 7 of his 10 HR’s.
Here is a great in depth piece regarding Reynaldo Lopez and his future role with the White Sox.: soxon35th.com/what-to-do-with-lopez-in-2022/
that is an excellent article, aaron. hopefully katz/lopez will continue working together and find the most successful role for lopez in 2022. an effective lopez for an entire season (either as a rotation guy, or in relief) will go a long way towards minimizing the effects of losing rodon.
as “chisoxcity” pointed out, with rodon gone, and kopech likely on an “innings leash,” some combination of keuchel, lopez, ?, and ? is going to have to eat innings every fifth game. as i mentioned, though, the sox seem to be a “shoo in” to make the playoffs…in which only the 4 top rotation guys are material factors. assuming the sox 4 will be lynn, giolito, cease and a stretched out (by then) kopech, i think the whitesox, being the frugal entity they are, are too smart to make their one and only major acquisition this off-season a top of the rotation guy. so, i hope they (and you fellow posters) are convinced that right field is the position to address.
as “chisoxcity” also aptly posted, injuries happen. hopefully a major pitching injury will not befall our whitesox. but, if it does, we’ll have to address that issue if/when it arises.
the notion of any ML team having a salary limit is farcical… The Billionaire owners.. owe the public for their Stadiums and support.. maybe they should pay them back by spending…
local politicians owe their constituents for agreeing to allow their buddies to build stadiums using tax dollars.
White Sox should think about really going big. Bring in Correa and shift TA to 2b to help the pitching staff through superior defense.
They pursued Machado so it’s not completely unreasonable.
Unfortunately I don’t think that would ever happen, I would however be pleased with Trevor Story as a consolation prize
Correa makes too much sense for a contending club like the White Sox. They could easily afford to sign him, then cut payroll in a few years to compensate (after a couple WS appearances). It’s going to take some courage (charity) on the part of the owner, but it should be a no brainer to atleast make the contract offer to Correa. Keep teams like Detroit and NY from signing him for regular market value.
A $300m+ contract is a no brainer? Man, it must be nice to spend other people’s money.
Yes, offering an elite young player $300MM to play for you is part of the economics of the game. The Sox have a TON of salary flexibility thanks to Hahn’s shrewd contracts. They need to take advantage of that before it’s too late. They can always trade assets or let lesser players walk later if/when the time cones.
Yes, his shrewd contracts have put him in a position where they couldn’t offer their best SP last year a qualifying offer. They sign Correa and they fly over the current luxury tax threshold, probably for multiple years.
This is a pretty bad post, so I’m not gonna bother responding. Oh wait.
This article paints a sad picture for the Sox. They have some young talent but no money to move the team past where they are now. They will be trading pieces off in 2 years to stay afloat.
They got money, the problem is Uncle Jerry doesn’t like to part with it.
Or maybe he and his baseball people just don’t believe it’s a good investment to pay $100M dollars over 4 years to an under 3 WAR/yr player?
@15step I totally agree.
This is my worst fear for the White Sox. Aside from Michael Jordan’s Bulls, Chicago has a storied history of squandered opportunities due to frugality. It’s why we have decade after decade of mediocrity. JR has done right by the sports fan in this city recently. My hope is that he follows thru on this team before it’s too late.
They are happy to let Texas sign Marcus Semien for this exact reason. They saw what happened to the Cubs as a result of the Heyward contract. And, yes, they have to live within Jerry’s means. You need to make a case for him to fork over the money. Semien for 7 years, another OF that can’t play defense long-term (Castellanos), or paying Carlos Rodon 18M are all options I bet they view as not worthy of an investment they are comfortable with. I happen to agree. Spend efficiently with a realistic eye on who is involved (e.g. Jerry).
It’s getting pretty close to too late if you asked me. They can’t waste this whole offseason with mediocre to no upgrades at all. Inexcusable. We’ll see what they do post lockout (assuming there is a post-lockout), but their start to the offseason does not look promising.
What do you propose they should have done?
To me, they could have been in on Semien or Baez. I know people look at the contracts and say they don’t want the Sox to overpay. For a change, just once, I’d like to see the Sox overpay, if that’s what it takes. That would mean they actually got somebody big rather than sitting on the sidelines wishing and hoping with mediocre or no alternatives, the way they’ve operated for decades with only one appearance in the World Series since 1960. It’s all money that Reinsdorf has amassed from fans over the course of several decades in the first place. It’s the fans money that he is hoarding, and he can afford to give something back to them and the city that made him ridiculously wealthy. All the small market narratives and excuses that they “can’t afford” to sign a big time player are pure nonsense if you look at his net worth and how much that has increased since 2020. The only constraint is imaginary, it’s called greed. And it’s the sole reason this team probably won’t win a thing other than the AL Central while Jerry owns them. They were 55 million behind the Astros in payroll this year and the results in October reflected that.
right you are augusto, with one minor modification of what you’re saying…the sox did overpay by a lot…for mazarra, for eaton, and in a sense, for kimbrel (but it wasn’t money)…with a chance that doubling down on kimbrel will result in another overpay, at least when you overpay for a harper, a machado, a wheeler, you’re still going to get SOMETHING OF VALUE, not a stinking pile of crap as the sox keep getting on these overpays!
rjh
You are right they have wasted money on dumpster dives like Eaton. It seems to me they will wind up a Wheeler, Machado, Springer, or Semien short of winning anything other than an absolutely terrible division. As much talent as this team has, I’ve just about given up on them. They are short at least one very good player if not two. Lower level guys like Harrison for 2b that they are likely to get are not going to make the difference. I’ve said all along that if Grandal is the biggest free agent they sign during the rebuild, they will never win a title. I don’t think I will be proven wrong, you don’t win championships without addressing obvious weaknesses like they have, with real and not mediocre/cheap upgrades.
the one thing that gives me some hope is that they did make serious bids for machado and for wheeler. however, not being in on springer (which was so much more an obvious need) makes me wonder…big time! another thing that provides a ray of hope is the perennial promise that “WE WILL SPEND,”
certainly, there is no serious sox fan that is fooled by the meager dollars that were spent for graveman!!!! that is in NO WAY considered “spending” in the 2021 sense of the word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and a PROMISE IS A PROMISE…
damn it! are the sox willing to lose the trust of all the rest of those fans…the ones who haven’t already lost their trust??????
Im not sure. The Machado and Wheeler contracts were no where near enough and more a PR move by the Sox. They are tapped out moneywise. Comes with being the second team in the Chicago.
The White Sox reportedly topped the Phillies free agent contract offer to Zack Wheeler. He chose Philadelphia based on geographical/family preferences. The White Sox then signed Dallas Keuchel as their fallback option that same offseason.
@block I agree. Maybe they were actually close on Wheeler, who knows. But the highest paid signing of the whole rebuild remains Grandal. There is no excuse for that, and that qualifies as an absolutely pitiful answer to “the money will be spent”. His contract will be up in 2 years, and they will have basically squandered the whole rebuild by refusing to pay guys to come here. They were 2 or 3 good players short of a championship level team the past two years, and it looks like that will remain the case until Grandal and others are gone. Just a sad waste. The only team in Chicago that has a chance to do anything in the playoffs is the Bulls.
I’m not worried. Soon Eloy will hit 40hrs, Vaughn with 30, Robert with 30, Moncada with 30, and so on…
We will trade you Ozuna for Kimbrell lol
White Sox & San Diego should talk. Myers, Weathers and Kim for Kimbrel and who else to make it work?
White Sox are just one owner and one vp from winning it all.
KW is an EVP. He needs to go.
KW must have something on Jerry. I’ve always wondered what. Think he’s a bum.
Boo Hoo they made there mess they can live with it. Grandal is way overrated. Anything they do now will just make them worse because they will end up giving there good players away to try and get better.
Not if they spend money on an impact free agent or two. Aside from trading Kimbrel and/or Bummer, I don’t see enough depth to make a trade work. They can’t afford to lose anymore starters.
Grandal is fine. He’s a gamer that played half of a season behind the plate on one knee and then rushed back after surgery. Not the problem or reason for the entire teams streaky play. They had their share of major injuries. Want to identify a bad move consider the Kimbrel trade. I understand they were pushing all of their chips in to try and win. However the cost was way too high considering players given plus salary taken on. Table setters like Madrigal are always undervalued. Guess Cubs had one coming after the Eloy trade.
Meh they didn’t lose much of anything with Slappy. Augie Medina or Ryan Theriot lite. Pretty insignificant loss considering the meagre positive WAR accumulated from his punch and Judy singles were almost completely offset by the negative WAR from his baserunning blunders. Have to be a pretty major butthead to achieve that. But the North siders love them some Ryan Theriot so he’ll probably get a statute. Code Heuer was the bigger loss though not so much in the grand scheme
But is Garcia a better everyday option then Slappy? I like the trade if you can fill the hole that was created by moving a Madrigal. I don’t see any realistic options for the Sox at 2B this season
Garcia is not your everyday 2b ideally. So yes, agree they need to sign one of the many market options, unless Romy or Michelle are ready
Michelle?
michelle?
hello dumpty. hello aaron. together with augusto, you guys are my favorite “posters.”
if we’re going to sign only one major player, which is probably our limit (given the frugality of ownership), i’d much rather it be a right fielder than a second baseman for the following reasons:
1) an outfield bat such as seiya suzuki or nick castellanos is going to augment our run production demonstrably more than a second baseman.
2) we have zero outfield prospects that are likely to be “sox worthy” within our window of being serious contenders.
3) with the prospect of either yolbert sanchez or romy gonzalez possibly being able to take the 2nd base duties (especially sanchez, as he’s major league ready defensively, with an under-rated bat), i like the fall-back case of leury playing second base more than i like the fall-back case of engel being our every day right fielder.
what do you guys think?
@rjh, What’s you take on Sheets/Vaughn? Both need consistent MLB at bats to continue their development… time to consolidate assets and make a trade?
@Theo, If there was a minor league option to be excited about in middle infield, I would mention Jose Rodriguez, but it seems like he is at least a year away from MLB… Even Yolbert Sanchez needs minor league reps. Throwing Romy out as an everyday 2B for a contending team sounds risky.
Do the market options you propose include converting a SS to 2B? Is Josh Harrison or Jonathan Villar enough?
that’s a great question, david. here’s my take: i’d love to develop both sheets and vaughn….however, they have proven (sort of, based on small sample sizes) that they can be THE dh. the platoon splits show that it will work…again, based on small sample sizes, for both. with the team in their serious window of contention, we have to subordinate every other consideration to WINNING A WORLD SERIES! also, everyone knows that prospects who show any signs of life (especially our high draft choices) are always hyped to the max! as the right handed hitting part of that dh tandem, some might say that vaughn will be underused. so be it!! he’ll just have to prove himself in that small role…and in so doing, he’ll also show that he’s a “team player.”
hi again, david. here’s more re second base: 1) you’re right about rodriquez.. he seems to be a legitimate prospect, but is definitely a minimum of a 2023 arrival, more likely 2024. 2) harrison and villar are both STINKING PILES OF CRAP…just look up their records on “baseball reference.” leury would have a better year than either of them! 3) by all reports, sanchez is major league ready defensively, and i’ll supply the baseball reference offensive numbers, because few of the posters on here ever do their homework by looking those up!
3) here they are: in 996 lifetime at-bats, he’s slashed .300/.353/,390. i admit that .390 is light on the “slugging.” however, if recency counts for anything, his last assignment of 2021 was at AA birmingham, where he slashed .343/.369/.469…in 143 at-bats!!!!!! moreover, his lifetime strikeout rate of JUST 11.4% says that he’s very unlikely to flop at the major league level. if i were a betting man (i’m not), i’d put good money on yolbert sanchez to soon be a high war major league player, and even some money on yolbert having a better offensive season, by far, than harrison or villar…in 2022. and if yolbert happens to have “the yips” to start the season at the major league level, leury is a BETTER OPTION than harrison or villar.
I love another reference to Nightengales ridiculous tweets, that the Sox “showed strong interest” in Verlander. That means that they probably did not even talk to his agent, and that if they did, they offered him so little that it would have been a meaningless gesture. As has been the case with every free agent they have gone after the past 2 decades that cost significantly more than league average. Grandal is the biggest free agent signing of the whole rebuild, which is a joke.
Reinsdorf’s net worth is up 200 million since 2020. He has money to spend, clearly. He is worth almost 2 billion. They play in Chicago, the 3rd largest market, not Idaho. And yet with the loss of Rodon, coupled with adding Graveman to replace Kopech’s move into the rotation, they have a slightly worse team than the one that did not belong on the same field as the Astros in October. Something has to change for the end of year results to get any better. They need better than mediocre upgrades at 2b, RF, perhaps another SP. And never should have wasted 16M picking up Kimbrel’s option when they will have to pay part of that for another team to trade for him.
Segura and a prospects for kimbrel
Smart to swap similar bad deals with the Padres.
Myers 22.5
Profar 7.3
For
Kimbrel 16
Keuchel 19.5
Some money or low level prospect possibly added to make deal work better.
Why would the White Sox take back a bad contract just to dump a guy who they literally JUST picked up their option on? There was nothing stopping the White Sox from just declining the option if they wanted to dump Kimbrel.
That’ll be flood as well. They’ll get Profar at 2B, Myers to RF; Padres get more SP and a return to home in Kimbrel.
ChiSox pitching we’re shelled out of the playoff games starters, relievers, closers. How can that be fixed?
Trade Kimbrel to the Jays. Maybe a salary dump of Grichuk for Kimbrel straight up might work.
CWS get their possible RF of at least, a better option than what they have, and the Jays get their CL. Should be a win win for both since both players struggle the last season and both are owe some dough!
am i the only one who wonders if the sox have someone in charge of reading these comments? after all, these are the feelings of the REAL sox fans…not just the casual fans who make up the majority of attendees to their games. you would assume that the team should care about what we think! it would surely be disgusting if we’re the only ones thinking about the team during the off-season…while the majority of front office people are snoozing in the sun, on some tropical beach!
Reinsdorf reminds me of the joyless owner in “The Natural” who was always in his office with the lights off. I don’t think he cares one way or the other whether they win or not.
You’re right, he doesn’t. Most team owners only care about the revenues and tax write-offs.
I keep hearing people say the White Sox only exercised Kimbrel’s option because declining it after trading Nick Madrigal for him would be “bad optics.” Accepting the option only to trade him for another bad contract or attaching a prospect just to dump him would be WAY worse optics. If teams aren’t willing to take Kimbrel without getting something in return it’s pretty certain the White Sox will just roll with him to start 2022.
Why jump the gun on this? Everyone needs to calm down and wait to see how the offseason plays out.
Trust Ethan Katz to fix what was ailing Kimbrel – then think about moving him. Not now when his value was low. Katz had no time to work with him when he arrived late in the year and allowed a handful of bad outings over a tiny sample size get to him. Remember how Rodon came back from injuries late in 20 and got tattooed in 2 ill advised relief outings and everyone thought he was toast? And then Ethan arrived and rebuilt Rodon and Reyno’s game and confidence, not to mention value. Relax, yall and allow Ethan time to work with Kimbrel and get him acclimated to his new setting. Always best to bet on Craig’s hall of fame resume over a few rocky weeks in a new role
that’s another great post by you, dumpty. but i’m not convinced that you’re right. i have more confidence that you’re right about katz/lopez than you are about katz/kimbrel. but what you’re saying makes soooo much sense, that i’ll just drink that sox/dumpty coolade…at least until i see what happens on the field.
right you are about that…and with a super-motivated kimbrel, out to prove that his whitesox stint was a fluke, wouldn’t it be a godsend for him to bounce back to his cubbie effetiveness?!!!
Every commentor on here makes predictions which never happen, but could’ve. And though incorrect, it just goes to show the immeasurable amount of what-ifs in America’s Pastime.
Before Covid, I made two adamant calls for the White Sox to go get:
RF Yasiel Puig
SP Jake Bauer