Last week, both Jeff Passan of ESPN and Evan Drellich of the Athletic reported that Major League Baseball had been preparing core economics proposals to present to the MLB Players Association. Both Passan and Drellich suggested that could ignite collective bargaining negotiations by the end of the month. Bob Nightengale of USA Today adds a bit more specificity to that timeline, writing this morning that the league is planning to make its proposal “within the next two weeks.”
Whenever the league does put its offer on the table, that’ll serve as the first notable development in CBA talks since MLB instituted a lockout in the early morning minutes of December 2. The parties have since met a couple times regarding issues outside of core economics, but there’s reportedly been no discussion on the most contentious issues since the start of the lockout.
The league and union did put forth core economics proposals prior to the expiration of the previous CBA, but neither side responded favorably to the other’s offers. That culminated in a seven-minute bargaining session on December 1. Both parties have expressed openness to returning to the table, but they’ve been in a holding pattern as the union has waited for the league to put forth a new offer.
Renewing core economics discussions by around January 21 (two Fridays from now) wouldn’t give the parties much time to bridge the gap without threatening exhibition play. The first Spring Training games are scheduled for February 26, and there’ll certainly need to be a few weeks between the signing of a new CBA and the start of gameplay for players to report, clear whatever COVID-19 protocols may be in place and ramp up physical activity.
take your time…ffs
Yeah. My first thought was, it takes two more weeks to come up with a new proposal, or they’re just taking two more weeks?
They prob have a proposal waiting and are just sitting on their hands
Or some fleshier part of their anatomy.
Both sides have drawn out. Time has to matter for each side before they will get serious.
I’m wondering if the players would accept shaving a year off the maximum minor league time before the arbitration clock starts ticking combined with a league minimum raise. Right now players can be held in the minors for 5 years before the major league arbitration clock starts and they make $570.5k the first three years. Cutting that minor league time maximum to 4 years and almost doubling the league minimum to $1 million would definitely help the younger players make more money. It will also help them make it sooner. They could raise the luxury tax some on top of that. That way the young players can’t spend any more than 4 years in the minors and they are millionaires as soon as they become big leaguers. Anyone think that would be enough?
I think players would love that, but not owners. I like it too
Owners would want something in return for that proposal.
Not close to enough.
And what do the owners get in return for all your concessions? I’m not saying the owners can’t afford it, or anything, but that’s a hefty increase across the boards and losing a year of control in doing it to boot.
Like what in return? The proposal is raising all salaries including arb years. Not sure the owners will agree to doubling (almostl) the minimum without changing arb big time. it’s time for players to risk getting a pay cut if they get hurt or play poorly. No one wants to hear that but something has to change on both sides in my view. Maybe shave off a year for only those who completed college.
Give them that extra year of team control then. Free agency at 30 instead of 29.
Just like any government, or company Blue sky.. You get a bunch of lawyers, or pencil pushers involved and everything gets tied up in knots because of unnecessary bs. Days of 2 people, who owned a company, or managed competitors getting on a phone, having dinner together etc.. To have a meeting to hash over some agreement are unfortunately long gone.
What a crying shame.
I don’t think those days ever existed other than in people’s dreams and fantasies. I’m not sure it’s a good idea either that 2 people alone determine the fate of thousands of individuals and billions of dollars…
Exactly right. Those days never existed.
Believe they did. Lot more lawyers and not required personnel than used to be years ago for nothing else than job security.. As in unnecessary litigation.
It can be shut down if an industry put it’s mind to it, like insurance did to ambulance chasing lawyers a few decades back stopping the massive paydays for all involved.
What about the money the owners are making from Apple TV broadcasting contract. Are they going to give 50 % to the MLBPA??
If the players wanted 50% of the total revenue, the owners might agree to it.
But will the players?
@Joe Brady: The players will never take revenue based income. That would be to sensible like the other pro sports are.
The other thing about the media money and players wanting a cut is that plan ignores the obvious. It takes a lot of money to start up a media company to exhibit games that big. It also takes a lot of effort, time and people. The team owners either do it themselves (with media outlets like YES or SNY) or they pay someone else to do it by signing a contract that pays them but gives the actual media company a large part of the profits. The players might be the exhibition but they don’t put any time, effort or money into the process involved for the game to be broadcast. It’s hard to do that. It’s a lot of work and it seems no one in the MLBPA wants any part of that. They don’t even negotiate the contracts with people that do it much less do it themselves.
I would be all for the players chipping in half the cost it takes to get that done and recieving half the profits. It seems like they want to contribute nothing to the process of making their games broadcasted though.
Players were playing way before the games were broadcast and the primary reason they are broadcast is not because they are playing the game. The primary reason they are broadcast is people spent the time money and effort to broadcast them and the owners did the same to promote them. The players didn’t really do any of that.
I totally understand players wanting a cut of the media money but they need to raise their union dues or something so the MLBPA can contribute to everything it takes to broadcast the team like the owners and media companies do. It takes a lot to make these games viewable all over the world and the players are just doing the same things they did before they were broadcast while the owners and media companies have put in a ton of money and effort to make that possible. It almost seems like the players just waited for someone else to put the effort and money in and then wanted a cut after they didn’t help. Broadcasting is expensive. You gotta pay the broadcasting costs before you ask for the broadcasting profits.
Indeed ,Same thing with appreciation in franchise value. Gotta buy the franchise first. Risk and money. Gotta build a stadium before accrue profits.
Players made $4.14 billion in 2021. MLB made $12 billion.
In all other sports the books are open and the revenue is shared 100% by the teams. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but the books are closed in baseball. The owners don’t want you knowing what they really made and how they spent it. Only two teams are publicly owned and have to open their books. Not even going to venture to tell you how wrong you were about everything else after you open with a premise like that.
@outinleftfield: The books are open in other sports BECAUSE there is revenue sharing. The owners have offered to do that in baseball and the players adamantly refuse to sign any contract based in revenue because they say “it’s too close to a salary cap.” It’s like that in baseball because of the players. You have to take the bad with the good. If the players want the books open they need to be reasonable like every other athlete and accept revenue sharing. They have not and will not.
outinleftfield
Players made $4.14 billion in 2021. MLB made $12 billion.
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There is no chance that is true. I assume that you mean that MLB had ‘revenues’ of $12B.
That’s like saying you $100k last year, but don’t understand why you bank account didn’t increase by $100k, ignoring all your expenditures for the year.
Hey is anyone else doing the math on this?
I apologize for replying to the first comment, but i hate seeing the faces on these two clowns. I hate them both
a fair reason tbh
*MLBPA has already declined MLB’s proposal and has counter offered the same thing they have for the past year
And MLB replies with the same. And so on….
Yawn.
MLBPA has been offering the same thing for half a decade now and the owners are like decades? We only smoke Cubans!
I don’t understand why it is taking so long to make a proposal, just ask for the moon already and let them shoot it down – that is how you end up meeting in the middle.
I think that’s all they’ve done to this point.
Two reasons. The optimist in me says it is so MLB can come up with an offer that might just be acceptable to the players, spurring serious talks and a resolution in time for spring training to begin on time.
The pessimist in me says MLB is stalling hoping the players get nervous and accept a lesser deal in order to start the season on time.
It’s all about the leverage. MLB wants to have some financial pressure on the players when they get down to brass tacks.
I don’t think the issues are as insurmountable as some believe they are.
– They will increase the minimum wage, just a question of how much
– They will increase the CBT tax threshold, just a question of how much
– They will implement a universal DH
– They will get rid of the payment of compensation for signing free agents
– They will expand the playoffs, at least to 12 teams, but to get `14 will require greater concessions to players
– They will put patches on uniforms that net about 6 to 8 million in revenue per team
– They will tweak the amateur draft, probably adding a lottery, but that won’t really address tanking, since teams tank for money and not for draft picks, IMO
– They will probably tweak the arbitration eligibility, somewhere between 2.116 where it is this year, and two years. Maybe around 2.5 years
– They’re not moving the six year requirement for free agency. If the players get anything on this point, it will be a lesser definition to count one year of service time (presently 172 days)
One possible sticking point is what the players are demanding with respect to how teams spend revenue sharing dollars. Obviously, their proposals touched a nerve since Manfred shut down the talks when they wouldn’t take it off the table, but it’s a huge issue to players as a key part of the anti-tanking issue.
Still, these parties can be stubborn and will hold out until the last minute hoping to get some last minute concessions. Until regular season games are in peril, there’s not much incentive to sign a deal.
Oh, and there is this grievance filed, which the payers are asking for $500 million, over the failure of owners to use best efforts to play as many games as possible in 2020.
I wrote a thing on this stuff if you guys are interested: blessyouboys.com/2022/1/10/22874199/mlb-lockout-cb…
Good thoughts, and I appreciate hearing some reasons to not feel totally pessimistic. I would add a pressure point that has to be felt by both sides, and that is the number of unsigned free agents. The teams will want to fill out their rosters and lock in payroll commitments for the season sooner rather than later, and of course all those unsigned free agents have to want to know where their next paycheck is coming from.
There is no financial pressure on the players until they miss that 1st paycheck in mid-April. Seems like Meyers has that handled. We will see if this gets into April and still no agreement. 2.116 years of service time means 2 years 116 days.
Correct. 2-1/2 years of service time would be 2.086, or two years and 86 days, just 30 days less time than where the super two fell in this winter. I think that’s a reasonable compromise, considering the full history of the arb eligibility being 2 years for the first 15 seasons, then 3 years, then super two.
Far less likely is any movement on the six year free agency requirement. Super five anyone? I don’t see it happening.
That’s not joke you meet in the middle. It’s not how negotiations work. It’s how fans THINK it works, but it’s not how real life negotiations work.
Cosmo2
That’s not joke you meet in the middle. It’s not how negotiations work.
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I always find that amusing. There are a surprising amount of people that truly believe that all you have to do is to double your asking price, and the buyer will double his offer.
In the two houses I bought, I knew approximately/exactly what the number should be. If I know the comps on your house are $185k, you can ask for $220 or $320, and it still won’t budge my offer one dollar.
Rarely do negotiations get settled right at the mid point, except when they get so close that it’s more costly to keep arguing than just split the difference.
But on the minimum salary, and the super two arb cutoff, and the CBT threshold- we pretty much know that these are all going to be features of a new agreement, and both sides will have to move from their current position to get a deal. They’ll meet somewhere in the middle, if not in the very center.
it’s more costly to keep arguing than just split the difference.
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That’s usually where I feel good. I purchased an $18k car and we were arguing about floor mats. In my first house, we were discussing light fixtures. At that point, it’s time to wrap it up.
But that’s also a reason why I dislike the ‘start high’ mentality. If I’m at $182k on a house, and you’re at $192k, I’m at the point where I can theoretically think of ways to bridge the gap. I’ve had people ask $220k for a house that the market really considers $190k. I won’t waste my time trying to reason people out an unreasonable position.
What a joke of a league.
It’s been a joke since the start of MLB in the 1800s.
This had better be a serious proposal, not the public relations stunts MLB has pulled so far when making proposals. I mean, everyone knows roughly how the eventual deal is gonna look: Some sort of carrot-and-stick to get the low revenue teams to spend; a bigger share of the pie for players in general, and especially for mid-range guys and arb players; a rule to fix service time manipulation; bigger playoffs; NL DH. Just iron out some details and let’s get going.
I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure that this is not the most efficient way to negotiate. In order to negotiate, there has to be an exchange of ideas. I do know this much – it has to be a lot better to be in a room together rather than do this via written proposals, because you get a more immediate reaction. Unless time is not of the essence. Except that it IS of the essence.
I can remember who on here had a great point that with covid renewed for a new season, the owners might actually welcome a bit of a delay that sees the season open in June or July when (hopefully) the numbers go down and the restrictions ease.
It definitely feels to me that there is some feet dragging here. I mean MLBTR has pumped out like 90 articles between the PA and the league talking
I can’t remember**
Maybe, but after losing money in 2020, would the owners stomach losing more so soon after?
If they can’t pack the stadiums, paying salaries probably doesn’t sound too appealing. If they can stall a bit and delay the season it could work out financially in their favor.
I picked March 17 figuring a May 1st starting date. The first month is scrapped. Whatever concessions end up being given for 2022 are saved by the late start.
Gate revenue is a small part of team’s total revenue. TV makes up 2/3 overall. Right now none of the cities with MLB teams are restricting ticket sales for MLB games. That could change if COVID spikes worse, but 13 are in states with no restrictions on sporting events so I would hate to see how bad things would have to be for them to start limiting attendance at outdoor events.
Unless MLB can gain a major concession from the players in the new CBA, all contracts are paid in full regardless of the season length. The Commissioner can set a season length at anything he wants, but the players still get 100% of their salary. The grievance that the MLBPA filed with the NLRB, was about collusion by the owners to artificially shorten the 2020 season, so not sure they want to double down on that kind of behavior.
“I can remember who on here had a great point that with covid ”
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I mentioned here or on another site about that. The players probably know that the owners would cancel April in a heartbeat. Players get paid on a straight-line. Owners get paid on the basis of the playoffs and from more of the summer games.
In 2019, for example, the NYY had 18 home games of less than 40,000. 6 were in April, and 6 in the first two weeks of May. and a few more in September. And that was experience when I split a full-season ticket plan. No one would go to a cold, early-April Tuesday night game. You couldn’t give those seats away.
So the players have to be aware that the owners aren’t going to need much motivation to cancel 2-3 weeks worth of early-season games.
I think kids being in school plays a big part in that. Kind of hard to take the family out to a 7 PM game on a Tuesday when the kids have to be at school the following morning.
I’ve always noticed an attendance bump when school gets out then a decline when it comes back.
You really think that attendance matters? Owners get most of their money from TV. No games to show on TV means no revenue for them. In 2019 the Yankees made $157.4 million from the gate. Their total revenue was $683 million. Ticket sales was 23% of their total revenue. The Dodgers made $169.4 million in ticket sales and $612 million in total revenue. Ticket Sales were 27.6% of their total revenue.
outinleftfield
You really think that attendance matters? …. Ticket sales was 23% of their total revenue.
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Thank you for answering the questions that you posed. I’m not sure there is a single person in this country for whom 23% of their revenue would not be a concern. If any company I ever worked for lost 23% of their revenue, half would be out of business, and half would have massive layoffs.
Yeah.
Pretty hard to believe that MLB doesn’t have a proposal compiled. Seems that should/would have been done awhile ago. I’m with you, @Dusty. Seems a purposeful delay.
Sounds like what I was saying earlier. All the leverage right now is on the owners side. Do the players have enough determination to hold on and risk losing 2022? I doubt it. Right now the owners can hold tight and put the pressure on hard, or they can try to quickly resolve things. Sadly I expect the pressure approach then moving to solve it in April or May before the players gain all the leverage.
It isn’t until mid-April that players lose a paycheck. No pressure on them until then. So when exactly when do you think that the owners losing money from the lack of games on TV would surpass the players lost income? If you said February 26th you would be correct.
outinleftfield
It isn’t until mid-April that players lose a paycheck.
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They start losing money as soon as they miss the first game. The timing of the payments is incidental.
“Insert typical ‘Pads Fans’ jargon here.” – outinleftfield
The numbers are high because we keep testing especially asymptomatic people so much.
Bwahaha. So to solve it we just stop testing eh? Dang, guess we should stop testing for cancer too – boom no more cancer! You are a genius! /sarcasm
I didn’t say stop testing at all. Just stop mass testing especially people with no symptoms. We don’t mass test for the flu, and on average people don’t start regular screenings for cancer until their 40’s.
What you say makes much sense. Unfortunately for a rational exchange of ideas to occur, both parties much have some degree of trust. The owners, under the current commissioner’s leadership, has severely eroded much of the union’s trust.
The commissioner speaks for the owners. The second he stops doing that, he’s looking for a new job. He doesn’t provide leadership, he provides follower-ship.
Two weeks to present a proposal they probably had in December. More gamesmanship and a definite lack urgency.
MLBPA will reject it,calling it inadequate.
They’ll reject it without even reading it then claim the league/owners are trying to screw them.
Because…………they have been trying to screw the players.
I have a hard time thinking of Baez and his 140MM contract as being screwed. The owners pay the scouts that locate the players. They pay for the minor league system and coaches that allow players to refine their skills. They provide the stadiums (with the help of the community) for them to showcase their talents. Its much like an apprenticeship. And then upon making the big leagues get paid at least 1/2 a million per season. I’d be happy to grab my ankles to get screwed like that.
and for all that they receive in excess of 10 BILLION dollars. I’m so sad for them.
Screwing the players? Guys make millions for having fun.
If a salary floor is implemented, I’ll bet Bobby Bonilla ends up on someone’s 40 man roster haha!
Styme… so just watch the owners play then. Im sure it will be just as entertaining, right?
The players are THE product. Without them there is no game. And the owners have been taking a larger and larger piece of the pie with each new CBA. If you think they haven’t been successfully screwing the players recently, you’re blind.
You do realize that teams spend about as much on all other salaries in their organization (minors to majors. scouts, managers, coaches, all of baseball operations, all of business operations, trainers, groundskeepers, secretaries, ticket booth attendants, and everyone else on the payroll including the salaries of the minor league players) as they do on one superstar player, right? For the Braves that was $17.4 million in 2021. Ballparks come out of taxpayer pockets, not owners. Currently the Giants have the only ballpark in MLB that the the construction costs was privately financed. Even then the city paid hundreds of millions in terms of building infrastructure and the value of the land they basically gave the Giants. The park sits on city-owned property in what is some of the most valuable real estate in the country.
The league/owners most likely ARE trying to screw them, that’s why they are in this situation.
lol
Speaking of “lol” I haven’t seen Mr LOL around lately.
Two weeks inches closer to Spring report dates. Manfred must think they will back the players into a corner by pushing it out in hopes the players will cave in and not want to miss any time
These idiots should be working on resolving this around the clock and getting it done. They can play with their dildos afterwards as they appease.
I’ll be surprised if the proposal moves the ball at all. Players make less now than in 2017, not just in percent of the income but in real dollars. The players want some movement in the opposite direction. I don’t blame them.
Austinmac
I’ll be surprised if the proposal moves the ball at all. Players make less now than in 2017,
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Not exactly a shock given how much attendance has declined because of Covid.
If it’s “players vs owners” I side with the players 99% of the time. I come to see the players, without them there is no watchable product.
However, I’m exhausted over this whole situation. Maybe the players can get a bigger slice of the pie, but I’m pessimistic anything substantial will occur. Unless all minor leaguers make an actual living and players aren’t having their prime years go for pennies on the dollar, I think I’ll sit this year out. Let a greedy ownership
Hit enter on accident… meant to finish with “let a greedy ownership and a feckless union suck the fun out of the game for me, I guess.”
cainer18 – “I’m exhausted over this whole situation.”
Dude, if you are exhausted over a situation that you have no personal involvement in and exists for the sole purpose of entertainment, you need to find something to focus on that is truly important in life. Maybe hit the treadmill too.
@pov356 Lol I’m sorry my expression of frustration with this labor situation hampering my favorite sport has offended you. I’m a teacher who’s been blasted with talk of unions, being blamed for school closures, labor issues, angry parents, and politics for the last two years.
Now I’m getting labor issues in my favorite sport and I look on while minor leaguers continue to get shafted. It reminds me of all the stuff I’ve been dealing with at work.
You’re right, baseball is a sport for entertainment purposes. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible for it to invoke “personal involvement” or strong feelings even though I have no MLB affiliation. If you can’t see how a game can make someone feel real emotions other than “wowee, what fun!” then I suggest you practice a little empathy. Also, work on your insults. I have 8-year-old students who are more creative than “hit the treadmill” lol
cainer18 – I giggled at my own treadmill comment. I’m messing with you of course. Thanks for teaching our kids. My daughter is getting her degree in education right now. Very honorable profession that should be compensated way more than it is.
Baseball is my favorite spot too. I think there is a lot of empty posturing going on that will magically end in an agreement to start the season on time. If it starts late, I’ll watch more tennis.
Cheers amigo.
I’m going to go with Prov356 on this one. Fans are lining up at the Tobin over this one.
What they need to think about is that we haven’t had a strike in 28 years. And that both the players and owners have serious commercial interests at stake. They have a right to fight over $1B.
If the worst thing that happens is that they have a one-month work stoppage, once every 28 years, I won’t even blink an eye.
If Bob Nightengale says it then you can rest assured that the opposite will happen.
Minor League salaries is something the union will not negotiate since they don’t represent them. I’d like to see that changed.
Most MLBPA reps are long tenured veterans. That’s why there’s never a push for big minimum wage increases or concerns about minor league guys.
This is very true, and it’s why we’ve seen little movement the last two CBA’s on the minimum wage end, but the highest paid players keep getting more.
While the average salary dropped a bit over the last CBA, the median salary dropped a whopping 30 percent! About 56% of players now earn at or near the minimum salary. Taking care of them in a significant way would be very attractive to a lot of players, as well as close the pay gap between them and veterans that are finding themselves without suitors.
The minor leaguers have no seat at the table at all, unless they’re on the major league rosters.
By major league rosters, I think you mean 40-man rosters. About a third of which will be playing in the minor leagues during the regular season. All of the signings since the lockout and the version of the Rule 5 Draft that occurred were outside of the 40-man rosters.
As for them not getting much of a say, I think all of the approximately 1,200 players on 40-man rosters (assuming most teams have filled them) get a vote in ratifying the CBA. Yes, the leaders are veterans, but their interests can’t be ignored.
Nothing is going to happen until this latest phase of Covid passed. The owners wanted to delay the season last year.
Then we’ll be at risk for more delayed seasons for years to come.
If by “years to come” i imagine you mean forever…
COVID will never pass. It’s with us forever. Hopefully no more dangerous as the common cold, but it’s a coronavirus. It’s not going away.
I agree. I fully expect to get an annual Covid shot, just like a get an annual flu shot..
Two weeks huh?
Sets everyone up, fans, players, people who’s livelihood is dependent on the game, for massive disappointment if this proposal from MLB is not a serious one. Owners taking a big risk taking so long in developing this proposal.
If only there was a second party involved that could come up with their own proposal….
Hurry up with this. They’re holding up Braves/White Sox.
Interesting that it is always the owners making proposals. The union just waits for what the owners throw out there and shoot it down. You don’t hear of the union making proposals.
The owners aren’t going to magically say what the players want to hear. This needs to be more of a two sided conversation. So far it has been entirely one sided.
Know the players are making proposals, they just aren’t negotiating through the media, as ownership is doing. Ownership has to be fully aware of where the players stand on every single issue, yet they continue to make public proposals that are certain to be rejected. So I suppose ownership wins on spin, but not so much in reality, the place where agreements are actually made.
The initial $100M floor, $180M cap was for the cameras only. Maybe they think they can get to an impasse and then impose a new system
They can’t impose anything, but from the start it was clear that ownership believed that it can sweat out the players. They’ve as much as said so, and in public. From the start it was a bad place and a bad way to negotiate and one of the reasons why the two sides are where they are now. It’s sad how so many fans give ownership a total pass on this thing.
I’m thinking “Impasse” and “impose” in the labor law sense
BlueSkies_LA
Know the players are making proposals, they just aren’t negotiating through the media, as ownership is doing
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1-It would be useful if you were to disclose the details behind the union’s proposals.
2-If they are making reasonable proposals, and not publicizing it, then they continue to be led by inept leaders.
Your response to my point is hardly logical.
BlueSkies_LA3 hours ago
Your response to my point is hardly logical.
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Kindly explain why. You said that the are making proposals, but just not thru the media. Unless you are in the union front office, how would you know this?
I heard the original union offer of a $245M cap. I have heard nothing else.
Sure. Your argument is the players haven’t made their positions clear to ownership on the issues that are important to them simply because you don’t know the specifics, when just about the only thing we can really know for certain is the players certainly have made their positions clear to ownership. I don’t expect either side to make their specific proposals public, just because ownership does.
That’s not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that we have no idea of whether or not the players have made any proposals beyond their initial proposal asking for a 20% increase in the cap.
If the players have made serious proposals since then, I feel it would be idiotic to keep it a secret. Something as simple as publicizing ‘we asked for a 3% increase per year on the cap, and a minimum wage of $700k’ would go a long way towards getting the fans on their side.
And, in this case, public opinion matters.
This lockout is all about perception and if you think the union doesn’t play the PR game, you’re not paying attention. The union has not been bargaining any more than the owners. They are both at fault here. By the way, due to the pandemic, the company I work for did not see revenue that was projected, so most did not receive raises. I was happy to get my 3%. If the players ave salary has gone down during this pandemic, don’t you think an attendance based business might have been feeling the pinch also?
Maybe you can be more specific on where you believe the players are playing the PR game, though that wasn’t actually my point. My point is ownership took the public position from the very beginning that their strategy was to pressurize the players, and this is a bad place to start any negotiation. Now we see them kicking the can two more weeks down the road, not because it helps get to an agreement but because they believe it puts the players in a poorer bargaining position. Another deliberately nonproductive maneuver.
I’ve always said that both sides should agree to enter into binding arbitration if they can’t reach a deal by a date certain. This would focus the minds of both sides on actually coming to one. Getting to “play ball” is really my only interest as a fan.
None of the other stuff you mention is related to my point.
I love the arbitration idea.
It definitely seems like the two sides are more focused on hurting each other than on making a deal. The owners are making proposals, the union soundly rejecting them without any counter whatsoever.
If that’s the case we’re in for a long lockout.
Or, the optimist in me thinks maybe both sides have a pretty good idea about what each other will ultimately take and they are going back and forth between their legal teams before actually meeting.
This is 2022. Lots of communication can take place without holding a meeting.
If you are MLB, do you try to shoot the moon and get it all, or do you put out there an offer good for you, but enough to tempt many players who are worried about their next checks and might pressure the union. MLB has out-negotiated the Union twice running, giving away low-lying fruit that they really don’t care about. The Union needs to stay centered on the bigger issues to get movement. MLB really doesn’t want to break the union as much as beat it at the table. Breaking it would cause too much political tumult at a time it’s got its hands out in places like Oakland and (potentially) Baltimore
If I’m MLB I go for a meaningful “yes” that doesn’t really impact most owners. And that’s a salary floor. Tie it to revenue sharing. I did an article a couple months back and from what I can tell, the average revenue sharing split in the three years pre pandemic was about $120 million yet a handful of teams always had payrolls below it.
Get that first “yes” out of the way and build from there. The floor wouldn’t affect 25+ of the owners but would add a couple hundred million per year to the players. Nutting wouldn’t be able to pocket $40-$50 million of other teams money.
Creating a floor and tying it to receipt of Revenue Sharing might help a bit, but I wonder if all the tanking teams would do was “buy” prospects from other teams looking to dump some expiring contracts. That doesn’t pull us away from tanking in any material way. You also need to incentivize (with a cattle prod, perhaps) competitiveness. Maybe part of the answer to that is with draft order…say a maximum of two years getting both picks in the top three, or something akin to that.
You’ve made some good points but with the bust rate in baseball prospects 3-7 years with 3 in the top 5 at a minimum is what it takes for the Baltimore’s to compete.
Lol no urgency. This sports becoming such a joke
No burning rush, you morons. Just get it done. I can’t stand either side.
The union has made the most recent proposal which was made before the lockout. Ownership’s only response was a seven minute meeting and lockout. The players can’t negotiate alone.
All the other major sport leagues have a salary cap like MLB. . all the other leagues all the teams spend close to the salary cap… MLB is different. No other league has a team with the revenue stream of the Yankees compared to that of multiple and I mean multiple teams like the Pirates, Rays, Guardians,
You just keep arguing and threatening forever but the economics of the Pirates, Rays, etc is not going to change. The players can not understand this and the rich teams do not care. The Yankees do not care about the have nots…
The problem is that the teams you mention are not have-nots. They’re just cheap, and sometimes smartly so. The Pirates can spend millions more than they do. They choose not to. Also MLB does not have a cap at all. They have a luxury tax penalty that some owners treat as an artificial cap, but as we saw with the Mets, teams can spend as much as they want, whenever they want.
Owners can pour their own money into the team, but that is not a sustainable business model. We saw Mr Illitch do it in Detroit as he got up in years. I expect Detroit to spend, now, but not to the levels Mr I did.
Cohen is one of the richest owners, and teams like Cincinnati do not have that luxury. Even if MLB was to break up the larger markets by adding teams to NY, LA, and BOS, it would be difficult to rob the existing teams of their fan bases, and it would put hardships on those market which would need additional stadiums, parking and infrastructure to support it, even if the stadium is fully paid by the owner. That’s why other sports have revenue sharing at much higher levels. The big market teams pulled revenue sharing during Covid, showing that the little bit of revenue sharing that does exist is done begrudgingly by the most profitable teams.
MLBPA already preparing for their rejection of proposal within 2 week without a counter.
Just more posturing nonsense from both sides. No urgency from owners & players – telling. I’ll likewise lack in urgency when it comes time to attend games, buy merchandise, etc. A small, personal victory.
S.O.S.
Like every other labor dispute, this offer will be rejected out of hand, everyone will whine, the players will submit their own bad one the owners will huff and puff about it and then at the end of February they will come to an agreement they could have reached in November if both parties weren’t led by megalomaniacs. Better off if media just ignored them and said, hey get back to us when you grow up.
The article said “within” two weeks, not “in” two weeks. The proposal could be presented tomorrow.
I dont fully understand the intricacies of “revenue sharing” but wouldnt that help teams pay for a reasonable payroll? There should be no excuse to have a payroll under $50M (even that seems way to low, $75M is probably reasonable). If these “small market” teams are getting their share of the revenue than what is the excuse for the $30M payroll?
A teams payroll is about $100 million PLUS whatever the players payroll is. Teams have stadium expenses, travel expenses and about $10=15 million to operate each of five minor league teams. Scouts, coaches, analytics staff, stadium staff, accounting, IT, groundskeepers, GM’s, advertising, retired celebrities and VP’s that all have to be paid. Don’t forget the pension and healthcare for about 240 people.
The MLBPA will reject whatever the owners bring forward because it will not represent any significant change from the current system. They’ll then come back with a counterproposal, which MLB will reject. This is going to go on well into February.
The owners aren’t going to negotiate “any significant change from the current system’ just cuz Twitter.
The owners have all the time in the world. They were billionaires before they entered the sport. This is an ego trip for them.
I doubt many of these players especially in the minor have any talent outside of the sport that will ever net them the kind of money they can make playing a kids game.
I hear Walmart is hiring.
‘Both Passan and Drellich suggested that could ignite collective bargaining negotiations by the end of the month. Bob Nightengale of USA Today adds a bit more specificity to that timeline, writing this morning that the league is planning to make its proposal “within the next two weeks.”’
Well, that’s really not much more specificity, since today is the 10th of January and two weeks from now will be pretty close to the end of the month. The 24th will mark the first business day of the last full week in January.
I think it’s highly likely that the owners are dragging this out to put pressure on the players, several of whom have already taken jobs in foreign leagues. I think the owners are playing chicken, and they couldn’t care less how the fans feel about a delay to the season.
Bear in mind, they likely will also blame the players for the little guys — vendors, ticket takers, clubhouse personnel, and sundry low-level MLB employees — being thrown out of work if the players don’t bend to the owners’ demands. Many of these owners are the same conniving creeps who colluded against the players in the ’80s, and Manfred is the hand-picked successor chosen by one of those colluders, Bud Selig.
I wish I could count on the fans responding the way fans in the past responded to a baseball strike, when many stopped buying tickets. But a fan base that’s willing to pay the outrageous prices for tickets, food and parking that the owners and their contractors are demanding today don’t seem to have much capacity for resentment or much sales resistance.
” it’s highly likely that the owners are dragging this out to put pressure on the players,” No!! You think?? It’s almost like they’re doing collective bargaining instead of acting out some fairy tale for nine year olds.
Nobody can “do collective bargaining” when they’re not talking.
BTW, “nine-year-olds” should be hyphenated. Free tip.
Revenue sharing is a joke.Owners made enough money internationally on merchandise to pay every bill in the league.But we squabble about home attendance and this tv contract and that advertising advantage.It’s all bullship,they have anti trust and they don’t disclose other revenue streams.Collusion comes in many forms with so many revenue streams by owners.Revenue sharing starts at 100% of an asset .Owners aren’t sharing 100 it more like 50%.Slave mentality exists and starts with manipulation.
It’s only a little over a month until spring training starts. What’s the rush? Take a few(more) days off to wax your candles boys.
Hope it’s a heck of a lot better than their last proposal. Otherwise, it’s just a waste of time.
Once both sides are at the table don’t let ‘em leave until they have a deal.
Cage matches? Yeah, they work. How could they not work? If they didn’t work, everybody would still be in the cage.
—- Michael Scott
Let’s not rush or anything
What a fu****g joke. In what universe are they operating in. No sense of what needs to be done.
The players usually complain that the exhibition season is about 2 weeks too long. So it’s my belief that the lockout will settle so about 2 weeks of exhibition games get canceled. Of course I’ll be wrong but as long as it settles earlier than that I’ll be happy to be wrong.
I realize baseball doesn’t value speed anymore but this is ridiculous.
When does cricket season begin? I’ve moved on…
So, we wait for about two weeks for another crappy proposal from the owners. When the players reject it, do we wait a month?
The players need to treat this as total war with the objective being the end of antitrust exemption.
Anti trust has nothing to do with the union on its origin into baseball.Union adapts to the laws but they certainly don’t write said laws.Senators,Governors,&Congress have all tried to abolish anti trust in baseball.It’s here for the privileged not the player.Union has zero to do with competition of possible rival leagues.It will not ever happen because it’s cheaper to buy into mlb then it is to compete in the same market against the mlb.Cost of business without antitrust,no one can compete with that deal.2 maybe 3 times more money then mlbs deal with the government to play the game
My biggest worry is not losing games but they not fixing this financial issues for the future. They need a pretty big remodel of the financial system. Players need to get to free agency sooner, teams need to stop getting revenue sharing without putting money in the team. Could they not have a formula for small market teams where you get a max revenue sharing for what you spend like you can get max 70 million in revnue sharing but you have be to be at 70 million team payroll? I mean I’m not a lawyer and not as smart as many on here and in life but they need to work out lots of issues, and not even including the on field stuff like DH, the dumb runner on 2nd, 7 inning DH crap, blackouts, and resolution to TB and Oak and/or expansion that will be coming.So many issues. I don’t see how they get it all done.
MLB / MLBPA / Commissioner why wait 2 weeks? Get back to the negotiating table now and get the CBA done!
To fix issues of tanking it should be based off of team salary and record.
If a team has payroll 40m or below loses x amount of games move down draft order x amount of spots.
Second year offenders with losing results with low payroll fall x amount of slots in draft.
Bracket it out for salary in tiers where 70m be the cutoff point of losing spots in draft. Can also work with international bonus money.
Maybe have a 1 year grace period where no penalties are enforced to give team a transition year. But only 1 year in a 4 year rolling period so if team becomes an offender 2 or more times within that 4 years they get penalized on the second year and beyond. This is just a quick idea put together but feel would keep teams from tanking all the time.
MLB service time should be based on the 40 man roster
It is like 1994 was 100 years ago and they both forgot the damage that did. Combine that with baseball has slipped from being the ‘National Past Time’ to 3rd behind NFL and NBA. They haven’t figured out how to innovate the game to make it more attractive to a contemporary audience or reduce game length.
If they miss any good chunk of the season or more, there is NO AMOUNT of PEDs that will bring it back this time.
F it.
At this point? Both sides, stick to your greedy little guns. Neither of you budge. Don’t move an inch.
Delay the season.
End up cancelling the season or play with scabs.
See what it’s like for neither side to make any money.
Then see what it’s like to lose your fan base. Your sugar daddy. Your golden goose.
Every one of you involved in the sport at the Major League level is earning far more than you’re worth. So show your greed. Demand more. Be willing to give less.
Now, get NOTHING.
And like it.
No soup for you.
If the players desperately need to correct how they are locked in with their employer FOR SEVEN YEARS prior to getting to free agency. Absolutely ridiculous.
Baseball is already on life support. You can watch roughly 540 20 second TikTok videos in the time it takes to watch an MLB game.
JimmyForum6 hours ago
Baseball is already on life support.
==================================
Do the players know that? Apparently, they think the owners are rolling in dough?
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