10:11 pm: Passan tweets that the union is planning to reject MLB’s proposal to possibly shrink the number of minor league roster spots. He adds that the MLBPA has declined similar offers by the league in the past.
8:29 pm: Major League Baseball put forth its latest collective bargaining proposal last weekend. Among the provisions included in that broad offer: a clause that would allow the commissioner’s office to reduce the amount of minor league roster spots available to teams in future seasons, according to a report from Jeff Passan of ESPN.
Currently, teams are permitted to carry up to 180 minor league players in their organizations during the season; that number expands to 190 over the offseason (not including the Dominican Summer League). According to Passan, MLB’s proposal would leave that 180-player limit in place for the upcoming season but would provide the league the flexibility to set the limit of minor leaguers per club at under 150 players at some point during the term of the next CBA. Passan hears from a league source that they’re not currently envisioning cuts to minor league membership at any point in 2023 but value the opportunity to implement stricter roster limits down the line.
MLB has made efforts to contract the minor leagues over the past few years. Over the 2019-20 offseason (prior to the start of the pandemic), the league eliminated 42 teams from affiliated ball, turning them into independent clubs or amateur summer ball teams. As part of the COVID-19 protocols, the league shrank the 2020 first-year player draft from 40 to five rounds. It was set at 20 rounds last year, and Passan writes that the league and union agreed last July to keep a 20-round draft in place going forward.
MLB’s proposal could affect different organizations to varying extents. Passan reports that five franchises currently roster more than 180 MiLB players, while two already have fewer than 150. Given that wide discrepancy in roster count between teams, there’s certainly some logic in tighter regulations to balance the field. Yet MLB no doubt also values the potential to reduce the number of minor league roster spots for cost-cutting reasons. Stricter limits on the number of spots available, if implemented, could involve many or all organizations having to release players.
Whether the Major League Baseball Players Association will sign off on changes to the minor league roster setup remains to be seen. Minor league players are not members of the MLBPA, nor are they members of a union of their own. Yet the MLBPA does play a role in some decisions involving amateur or minor league players. In addition to the aforementioned league-union agreement on cutting draft rounds, the parties have also discussed the possible implementation of a draft lottery, for example.
The treatment of minor league players is an issue that has garnered a fair bit of attention in recent years. The league suggested that improving conditions for remaining minor leaguers provided a compelling justification for cutting teams in the first place. Whether they’ve indeed made significant enough strides to justify those cuts has been a matter of debate. The league is requiring teams to provide housing for their farmhands, starting next season. Yet there remain concerns about the sufficiency of player pay during the season, and MLB continues to battle to keep minor league Spring Training unpaid.
Fire Manfredo!
Man cow
Bag MLB for a summer. Bag $100 tickets, $10 beers, $8 soggy hot dogs and $40 for parking. Go to your neighborhood Little League games. Watch boys and girls play baseball for the fun of it. Watch dedicated parents coach the teams while being paid zippo.
Oh, and a hot dog is just $1.50!
It’s Mr. Sir Manfred, for you.
You should be directing your ire to small market club ownerships who are driving their will towards this and most every cost cutting item we have seen towards the minor league levels, like the split season A- leagues which were eliminated last season.
fewer teams and players equals fewer expenses, salaries and overhead, which really is not much compared to i would imagine the salaries of.. Say 3 lowest paid MLB players. It shows just how cheap teams like Oakland and yes.. Tampa, which does develop well really are pushing these insane policies and have enough other lower to mid level cheap owners (hello orioles, KC etc) behind them.
It’s high time the owners/teams which drive fan spectatorship explain to manfred to stop ignoring these useless items those teams demand and i mean the LAD, NYY, Bos, NYM etc to begin speaking up loud and clear.
How do you know that it is the small market teams pushing this change? Or are you just assuming?
I think the owners are trying to cut costs by eliminating minor leaguers to help offset player salaries that will rise under the new CBA. The owners want a great deal. The players want a fair deal. I doubt the owners will agree to anything less than a great deal at this point. I can see both sides. The players side is obvious, but if you invested millions of dollars in something, you would want it to be a great deal too.
All of the players in the minors combined make less than $9 million in salary. Adding housing to that adds $4 million in costs according to the owners.
Not sure I believe the MLB owners considering they are talking about housing multiple players to a bedroom and not accounting for housing for married players.
Even if you do believe them, $13 million is not going to pay many major league players.
He’s that little green alien from space jam?
Another great article, Anthony. And I SUPPORT THE OWNERS!
Why do u support the owners?
Because the “men” who play in MLB are paid in the top 1% of salaries at the entry level for playing a game with a stick and a ball and mittens 7-8 months per year and receive lifetime benefits after 6 weeks on a MLB roster and the average salary is in the top 1/10th of 1% of incomes (more than $4 million per year on average). Enough is enough. The players are tone deaf, selfish, greedy, spoiled, and despicable (with some exceptions). Owners: HOLD THE LINE AND STOP GIVING IN. THE COUNTRY WON’T REALLY CARE IF THERE’S NO “BASEBALL” SEASON, AND YOU KNOW IT. THE PLAYERS NEED YOU A LOT MORE THAN YOU NEED THEM. STOP GIVING IN!!!!
The owners are actively trying to make it wear their employers are making less money while the owners themselves take in millions upon millions of dollars, and the players are greedy? Gtfo
*employees
The owners own the team. They bought the team and pay salaries. They have something at stake. They are in this to make as much money as possible.
The players have nothing at stake. If they get hurt, they still get paid. If they suck, they still get paid. By the owners. They are paid to play a game. The minimum for 1 year is what many make in 30 at a regular job. They did not have to put their own money up front to purchase a team and don’t have employees to pay. They arent at risk of losing money.
This isn’t to say the issue is black and white. But the owners are the ones paying people. If anyone is “entitled” to be greedy, it’s the ones paying the bills and the ones with risk involved.
[Rob Manfred has joined the chat]
The players don’t have anything at stake? What? This is how they live their lives. That’s kind of a big deal.
Do fans go to see the owners? Or do the players bring in the fans?
Have you seen Hal’s hair? Definitely the owners
Its their choice to live their lives this way. Youre not entitled to anything because of choices you made. Just like nobody should be entitled to student loan forgiveness or paying off credit card debt. You signed up for this. Nobody forced you. If youre unhappy with your job. Learm to code right?
What are you talking about?
The players are already under contract. They’re already making money. They have zero risk of losing money in their pocket. They get paid whether they play or not. Whether they suck or not. If the team sucks and no fans come, the players still get paid the same. It’s the owners that take that hit.
The players also didn’t put up anything before playing, like paying hundreds of millions to buy the team.
There is no comparison between the risk involved between players and owners.
@The_Voice_Of_REASON, may we screen shot your conversation for a later date when you lobby your team to sign a free agent or trade for a big ticket player at the trade deadline?
You’re right. Almost every owner was born rich. Now they can walk away with a huge return on their investment if they don’t like the situation.
On the other hand, players put in thousands of hours of work way before they even get drafted. They get injured, rehab, some spend most of the season away from their families, etc.
It seems like some people identify more with those who were born rich and don’t provide much over those who are talented and work hard for what they have. I wonder what that says about those people.
So why you here again?
Thé Voice- The next Time someone pays to see a owner, I’ll be behind you 1000% Just by owning a team the value increases. I don’t feel Sorry for the owners.a
What utter nonsense. A mannequin can run a MLB ownership – it’s a license to print money. Your team will go up by tons of money no matter how incompetent you are. Why do you think owners buy MLB teams if it isn’t a great investment!
Players have nothing at stake? Other than being good so they can get a contract. Sure, it’s a game but you are watching them because they are the best in the world. I play baseball too. Do you know why i don’t get paid – because I can barely hit 60mph not 95 on the black.
I guess you are also against Tom hanks getting 20 million a picture because the producers are fronting the money and I mean acting is really just pretend and plenty of people would do it for nothing.
Are these Jeff Bezos’s burners?
Again. Spending hours and hours before getting drafted is a pereonal choice and players deserve $0 for those hours. Nobody forces players to choose this career path. Nobody made them put all this time and effort into being a baseball player. Whatever time they put in before being drafted in high school or college doesnt mean they deserve more money for all the time they put in prior to being part of the league.
Players deserve to be paid more. Owners create the venue. Players bring the fans in. But lets not think the players are entitled to more money cause of how much they invested prior to being part of the league. However much they earn should continue to reflect what they bring to the table.
Typing in all caps constantly. Listen to this guy!
@foreign Owners have a lot more of a choice than players do. They can sell the team if they don’t like any of this. They can run other businesses during the season because they’re not putting in close to the hours the players are. Players can’t even play in a different league if they’re under MLB contract.
Owners don’t create the venue. Construction workers do and it’s usually paid for by the city (you and me).
You don’t have to side with the players, but don’t act like the owners do more.
That’s one opinion but it’s certai.nly not the voice of reason. What a misnomer.
The players are who make the sport. The owners are the lucky stewards of a gravy train. The owners are just as replaceable as the players if not more so. They are certainly more replaceable that the very best players.
By that same logic, no one forced the owners to own a team, right? Did they go into this not knowing how they system works? That player contracts are guaranteed? Or did I miss a radical change in the CBA in the past 30 years?
Some of them were born into their ownership, Sloth. I’m sure the pro owner crowd thinks that’s evidence that they don’t have a choice but not evidence that they didn’t work for what they have in many cases.
mils, the argument isn’t about Tom Hanks getting paid $20 million. The union’s position is arguing that the extras sitting behind Tom Hanks should be getting paid $10 million apiece.
Owners dont create the venue. Really? So the tv deals and broadcasting stuff just magically appeared out of thin air huh lmao.
If this is the hill you want to die on go ahead man.
Players should be paid according to the value they bring. Like any employee.
Most jobs dont pay you for time you spent prior to being hired. Many businesses dont pay off your student loans you signed up for to get a degree for said job.
If you dont like rules from the boss. Find a new job. I have no sympathy for players or owners. Millionaires and billionaires arguing over money is comical. Grown men that cant and arent willing to make sacrifices handling this whole thing like babies.
Every job pays for time spent prior to being hired. It’s called experience.
Now, if you don’t have useful experience, that’s a different matter.
Thats a major American economy? What do you mean America “won’t notice?”
Playing high school and college baseball with metal bats isnt the same as playing baseball with wood bats
Going to college or trade school isnt the same as on the job experience or time spent working.
The experience they pay more for comes from on the job experience. Not experience you gained prior.
So no. They dont pay you for just any old prior experience. Applicable experience. yes. Experience that says youre good at your job and do your job well. Yes. Experience that prepared you to possibly do your job well? No. Very rarely do they pay more for that.
he’s a troll with, at least, 4 tag changes.
Because he’s a support bra. It’s the only thing he knows how to do. Duh… How did you not realize that?
maybe because they’ve actually shown some urgency in trying to get games played and all the PA does is propose non-starter proposals and then sit on their hands when they get one from the league. Sure the league isnt being much better, but as far as I’m concerned the PA not agreeing to mediation shows me that they are salty they let themselves get shafted last time and want to make up ground (something mediation likely wolnt provide).
The owners do the same thing. They do proposals that they know the players will never agree to. The players have already given up one major area they were seeking in free agency age. What major area has the owners given up? Nothing. The players reduced other areas of their proposal. The owners still haven’t come off their original proposals in certain areas. I will admit that the players are being unrealistic in some of the jumps they want in luxury tax & in other areas, but the owners aren’t any better. The owners don’t want to negotiate at all. They want everything to benefit them. Nothing gets done as long as that is their stance
Is the owner’s Kool Aid cherry or grape?
I don’t think the owners are being super generous, but to say they aren’t giving anything at all is disingenuous.
-They are offering to remove draft pick compensation attached to qualifying offer free agents. This alone is huge for like half of the top free agents every year.
-They are offering to raise the league minimum. The amount they are offering isn’t probably high enough yet, but I think they will eventually get to $675/700/750 or better. The key the PA needs to ask for is that it rises with inflation every off-season.
-The competitive balance tax is going to go up. The players should be able to get them to move a bit higher on their offer and again just need to force them to follow inflation going forward.
-They agreed to a draft lottery to help prevent tanking.
-They agreed to a bonus pool for prearb players. The players can probably get $5-10M more added to the offer currently on the table.
-Both sides want the NL DH.
-What have the owners asked for in return? Expanded playoffs. Not everyone agrees this will improve the game. It might devalue the regular season, but it will obviously give more teams, and therefore players, a chance to win the WS every year. Wild Card teams win the WS frequently, so there is no reason to think the extra teams won’t have a reasonable shot.
Outside of expanded playoffs, I think every part of the proposed CBA has moved towards the players compared to the last one.
In a perfect world, maybe they should give the players even more, but I doubt that is a realistic option.
MLB’s offer on the minimum is a joke because it also eliminates pre-arb raises, so the minimum now also becomes a maximum. That will never fly with the players. The proposed CBT rise is so low it’s another joke. This proposal was never built to fly either. The proposed bonus pool is ridiculously low. We don’t need a perfect world for MLB to offer proposals that have some hope of being favorably received, it just has to be a world where they’re willing to give up something that isn’t insignificant.
The MLBPA really needs to unionize the minors. The problem is they’d then represent the players in the minors, meaning they could no longer negotiate their rights.
Negotiate “away” their rights.
Yup. It’s a weird dynamic where the Players Association has for years reduced certain rights of minor league players (or humans who haven’t even been drafted yet) to bargain for better contract terms for major league players, worsening conditions for minor leaguers, who represent future union members. If they represented the minor leaguers, they couldn’t do that, and conditions and pay would improve. It would also mean management couldn’t threaten to lockout major leaguers and play scabs. Right now, all players — majors and minors — would be locked out, or on strike.
That, in reality, is why the Players Association doesn’t want to represent minor leaguers. It would be a headache, but it’s time they move past that as the owners plan is to continually reduce the size of the minors.
The MLBPA doesn’t reduce minor leaguers rights, the owners do.
You’re confusing that with the MLBPA not bargaining for people who aren’t members of the union. That’s like rule #1 of a union.
LordDgg, I agree. I find it appalling the owners tighten their belts on the minor leagues when the Seattle Mariners pay the Mariner Moose mascot makes $600 per hour.
this is just too much to take. fire mlb!
Despicable really but some will still say both sides!
Manfred is ruining MLB
*has ruined
Manfred is simply the owners’ mouthpiece. So if he’s ruining baseball, maybe you should try peeking behind the curtain.
Well put.
As expected, given the recent contraction of the minor leagues.
I get wanting to standardize the amount of minor league teams. It was weird that before the Yankees would have 4 full season affiliates, two GCL teams, an Appalachian League team, a NYPL team, and 2 DSL teams to work with (a total of 6 short season teams). Whereas the Marlins had just the 4 full season affiliates with 3 short season teams. That means that the Yankees and teams like them could essentially double the amount of young players they would bring in and give chances to, hoping that spending an extra few hundred thousand dollars a year might occasionally lead to them unearthing a gem (also this made it so it was easier to entice longshot prospects who knew they’d at least get to play).
I’m not sure why they think a player roster cap will do it. Simply make it a rule that teams can only have one rookie league team. You already eliminated the weirdness with the Advanced Rookie/Short season A teams not being standard. That would be way easier than having to worry about what happens when too many players get hurt.
It’s interesting, though, that you mention the Yankees. There were other teams also operating with an additional two teams, but as soon as the Yankees followed, then people decided it must be stopped! And, really, the only way other teams could do that was if some teams were operating with less teams. Let’s not punish the team who wanted to expand, let’s punish the teams who were operating with less teams. The Mets, IIRC, were one of those organizations under the Wilpon’s.
Operating additional lower-level minor league teams is not that expensive. All MLB teams could add a couple of lower-level teams but there are some owners who are so cheap that they will do whatever to save a hundred thousand. Jerry Reinsdorf is one of them. He’s reprehensible and Chicago White Sox fans should be happy when he finally steps down or moves on to, well you know…
I do believe there should be a cap on the total number of minor league teams, but maybe there could be a range so that teams heavily dependent on developing talent could have a couple extra if they want to fund them, while other teams can opt not to. I’d prefer some teams be able to operate with larger farms depending on where they are in their development cycle. The Rays, for example, might welcome that. They don’t cheap out on the development side.
Very nicely put, Rob. I like the last paragraph especially wherein the team can pick the option to develop a larger quantity.
As stated, there is a maximum number of minor league players a team can have under contract and it’s been in effect for a long time. MLB is trying to reduce the number.
Currently, teams are permitted to carry up to 180 minor league players in their organizations during the season; that number expands to 190 over the offseason.
It has little to do with the number of teams/affiliates.
And people will still probably support the owners after this…
Some people
Just in case Manfred doesn’t know, essentially all MLB players can empathize with these current minor league players. They have all been there. This won’t fly.
but will the union leadership care?
Did you read the article? It tells you the answer to your question.
Sure they can —
Sure they don’t!
An assumption based on nothing but how you feel isn’t good for much.
Wow.
As long as you are willing to pay the guys, you already have some limitations on how many can be housed at any of the four top spots (including players on the DL). That’s at best 120 players there. Most teams like to have as close to two fulltime rosters for the instructional camp, rookie ball…as these players tend to go in-out on moving about the organization, are players on rehab, just players that are signed during the summer. When the short-season begins, that’s abother 30 players, which means 150 players easily with, at best, 25 on the disabled list.
I guess MLB wants more players to play indy ball, to see how good they have it in a major league minor league organization.
Still waiting to see how housing works out. But a floor of a neighboring hotel/motel. Two players a room. Are they given a food allowance or is each minor league aprk equired to support a kitchen staff with a healthy menu for three squares a day for all players and staff.
How do you handle, say, married players who house with their family during the season somehow.
The only benefit with the team picking up the beds is that it will be easier to shuffle players in-and-out.
MLB- Hey we need to save some money on room and board and not pay our minor leaguers during preseason. Does this work for you.
MLBPA- We’ll see you next season.
In news about a sport that’s actually culturally relevant: “The Next NFL Season Begins in 6 Months’.
I’m almost certain we will see an NFL regular season game before an actual MLB regular season game in this calendar year.
Good.
wow, you follow the No Fun League too? It’s cool to see how fast it’s fandom is growing.
Wait, so, the US Navy guy supports the league that kneels for the flag as a matter of practice? Interesting…
Not a US Navy guy, a USNF ’97 guy. And my favorite plane in the game isn’t even one of the Navy jets, it’s the F-22 that’s included as a bonus. And I never said I was a football fan, but it is culturally relevant, unlike baseball, and you know it. You’re welcome for the news about the culturally relevant sport.
Actually, I don’t watch it so it’s “cultural relevance” is of no concern or consequence to me. But, I do already know when football season starts/ends so it isn’t really news. But I’m not offended nonetheless. You’re unique, fella. Quite unique. I wish you the best in your question to…support the owners.
God Bless, friend.
God Bless to you too, Fellow Message Boarder.
Keep flacking for the sport that gives its players permanent brsin damage
Come to think of it, brain damagevIS ‘culturally relevant’ in the current USA
@Voice for someone that apparently hates baseball, you sure spend a lot of time on a baseball website, crying for attention
@mostly. Voice did get 19 thumbs up on one of his comments. So obviously there are others on here who feel the same.
Or he has even more free time than we think. JK, I think the last 10-15 years have shown just how much people’s views can differ. Even if they’re otherwise similar.
Minor league baseball in some of the smaller areas is important to the overall health of baseball. They have all ready made the minors smaller, we lost a local team. If you can’t see the owners are the ones ruining the sport, your not paying attention. Manfred, you are ruining baseball you idiot.
Really going to miss Seeing Rumble Ponies and Double Days games to do some scouting. Those were fun times and the atmosphere just isnt the same in the upper minors as it is in the lower levels. I’m left with Tex Simone who charges for parking when there’s an entire empty parking lot at a major mall across the street. Not to mention I have to put up with Mets AAA baseball to boot.
There is really no reason for the players to complain about making the pool to replace current union member smaller. It can only make it harder for teams to find replacements. Teams will have to keep replacement level players longer to fill out their rosters, and they will make larger salaries than rookies, which means larger dues payments for the Union. A win all around.
and the union wolnt care about this because NON-MEMBERS. but really though, dont get this. why not just not fill the other 30 spots if you dont want to?
That’s the key question. There has to be some added angle to this for a future Manfred-MLB strategy because this, by itself, does not make any sense. It’s a pittance in savings, and doesn’t really affect MLBPA-eligible players. They’re angling for something.
I just wondered if they are trying to get the number of Minors players down so that perhaps the PA would consider unionizing the Minors. at this point they probably don’t want to because they’d have to spread the money around more, but maybe with less players to compensate they’d go for it. maybe it’s a way of enticing the PA, or maybe it’s an angle to make more PA members lower-earners. i couldn’t say.
The minor leagues being unionized would be horrible for the owners, so I’m sure that isn’t it.
I don’t think that’s certain, especially if the League’s goal is to make it happen under their terms.
It is certain. If you have a few thousand employees who have collectively bargained benefits, your costs will almost assuredly go up. Especially when you consider what little pay, benefits and rights those players have now. Also, there’s no such thing as the MLBPA unionizing the minor leaguers under the league’s terms. The league doesn’t have anything to do with that.
It’s an interesting theory. Frankly I don’t discount anything long-term from the owners. They also understand that if all were one union it would sap the power from those few who want huge top salaries that cost the most money – the one-percent of the one-percent.
Both of you bring up valid points.
The MLBPA wouldn’t unionize the minor leaguers if it will negatively impact them in any way, shape or form. The only purpose of a union is to watch out for its members. They’re not going to increase their membership by 400% just to take the power out of the their own hands.
And even more importantly the PA could not simply include the minor league players in the union unilaterally, even if they wanted to represent them. They’d have to organize the minor leaguers, take votes of the players, and deal with the resistance of MLB (and they would put up a huge fight). It would probably take years to get through the process, and would be a moving target with so many players coming and going, all with no guarantee of success. But it would come with a guarantee of making the relationship between MLB and the players even more tense and miserable than it is now. So a good idea on paper, maybe, but not so much in reality.
I’m guessing the smaller market teams are asking for a more level playing field. The larger market teams can afford to have more minor league players, allowing more opportunities to replenish their major league club or to make trades.
Not saying I agree with it, just making a guess as to where this idea is coming from.
Hello!
“Passan tweets that the union is planning to reject MLB’s proposal to possibly shrink the number of minor league roster spots. He adds that the MLBPA has declined similar offers by the league in the past.”
Jesus. Bet the owners use an inordinate amount of free pennies next to the cash register.
Plenty of money for both sides and they’re quibbling over a couple of percentage points. I hope the season gets cancelled and everyone goes hungry.
MLBPA have screwed the minor leaguers over countless times in the past to get what they want so they should be ok with this as long as they get an extra La-Z-Boy per clubhouse.
The vast majority of minor league players are in a dead end job that wastes their 20s. Every player they cut, becomes a free agent. Which is better for them.
The less people throwing away their 20s the better. If you think reducing the number of minor league players is cruel, then you are not thinking, you are feeling.
“ you are not thinking, you are feeling.”
Perfectly describes one of the biggest challenges today to truth, function, progression, & societal development.
It sucks to say it but you’re probably not all that wrong.
“The less people throwing away their 20s the better”?
That’s an emotional statement, and an obvious one at that. It’s a good thing that a lot of people think doing the thing they love isn’t a waste of time. Weird.
It would have to cut A ball further. Someone has to pick up that slack because many draft picks are not clearly ready for AA ball.
If everyone did what you suggest, America would be a boring place with movies, music, sports, or any other stimulating forms of entertainment. I’m guessing you have a crappy record collection.
But think of all the factories we’d have and how much fun we’d all have working 70 hours/week.
if america ran on the principles halo11 suggests we would not have apple, microsoft or dream works. and whole lot more. once in a while, people need to follow their dreams. some will fail but some will make it big.
andre dawson was a 11th rounder. nolan ryan was drafted in 12th. kenny lofton, 17th! and many more.
We wouldn’t have baseball
Only 1 in 10 ball players makes it to the major leagues. Back in the day, the Yankees had 24 minor league affiliates They bought all of the talent and stockpiled it. We are dealing with that legacy. Baseball needs a system where only the best prospects are selected and groomed for MLB. Getting rid of the dead wood makes it possible to unionize the minor leaguers, develop them and include them under the salary cap. This is just the next step in the process.
Alien, is your username real? Because this is incredibly out of touch. You’re talking about something that happened 80 years ago. Also, I have bad news for you, the MLBPA will never agree to a salary cap. Not this time, not next time and not the 10 times after that.
Dead wood describes people who mindlessly pick up their diploma and settle into a life working for the man. Thankfully, there are other options in a free country. Why put limits on what fields people can pursue?
In almost all of the comments associated with such postings, there are the comments to fire Manfred. And yet the owners who are his bosses must be quite pleased for Rob to stick to their views and be the public’s whipping boy while they hide in the shadows. The owners are not baseball men and there only was one Pete Rozelle who got the NFL owners to do what was best for the pro football and the fans. Baseball will continue to diminish in value while the NFL and the NBA flourish. For those that think players are overpaid, have you noticed NBA salaries?
to be fair, the NBA is a very top-heavy league that generally employs less players and the monetary benefit to most players is also somewhat offset by a large turnover rate in rosters.
The very Pete Rozelle who wore out his welcome in the 1980s with 2 players’ strikes, 3 teams (and nearly a 4th) moving, a collapse in TV ratings, not to mention drug problems galore.
“Passan hears from a league source that they’re not currently envisioning cuts to minor league membership at any point in 2023 but value the opportunity to implement stricter roster limits down the line.’
——————–
I wonder if Passan wrote that line snickering? OF COURSE MLB will eventually reduce the number of minor league players from more than 180 to less than 150.
The Commissioner’s office has no intention doing that? Everyone can relax. Uhh, if it’s included in the CBA, then the number of minor league players will be reduced. Guaranteed.
I recognize in negotiations both sides are going to push hard. I simply can’t find any reason to support the owners’ side. They are repugnant, and the fans of baseball — both MLB and MiLB — are the victims. Well, along with the multiple minor leaguers who lost jobs with the contraction of teams. Way the to grow the game, guys.
As I said before, RobM, I genuinely believe no matter what the owners stated goal is, they’re ultimately going to lose. They’re damaging the game through the perception of its operation, and they are arrogantly dismissive of the game’s fan base during an epoch they’ve openly acknowledged they need to expand the game and draw fans.
It’s a dangerous game; one they’re obviously willing to play. Neither side truly wins this type of negotiation though.
Interesting seeing entire groups of people turning themselves into poker chips.
Ducky, you sipping grandpa’s cough medicine again?
It’s Benedictine, Clip. Medicinal purposes only. Hey. Goose hunting is cold, bro.
Love it, lol.
Down in Iowa, Clip. Doing my part for the environment as I protect the tundra from snow goose feces. & smoked goose is good!
Thank you! I always knew there was an environmentalist deep down inside you somewhere. Goose farts hurt the ozone and such, so take care of that, please. It is a bit strange to read “down in Iowa” though. Not too much above Iowa…
Well, that was a productive morning.
I ain’t no Lola Granola. But: actually, the environment/conservation is one of the few issues I give af about anymore, Clip. The snow goose population has exploded in the last 30 years. They are destroying a pretty delicate ecosystem. Their crap being a big part of it. Sportsmen were called upon to help. Pretty much no holds barred hunting. 50 bird/day limits in winter & spring.
Last few years, I’ve followed the migration from Southern Iowa/Northern Missouri all the way up to the Canadian border. See a lot of His Wonders that way, man.
Yeaaahh…” ‘down’ in Iowa” is not something I ever thought I’d say when I was a kid back in The City.
Whoa, 50/day?! I guess there is a problem with population. Well, seeing the land is awesome, man. Being out in the serene Midwest … I don’t blame you, bro. Talk about adding years to your life. You’re the smart one, Ducky.
Right? & that’s the daily. Possession (i.e freezer) is unlimited. For the record, I’ve never hit the daily limit. But I have so many snow’s every year, I give a *lot* of them away. Grain fed organic birds, bro.
I like it out here. Really good people too, man. I get back to the Bronx for funerals every so often. Great place to grow up. Couldn’t live there anymore though. Can’t wait to leave every time I go home.
Is this lockout what Taylor Swift was singing about?
“We are never, ever getting back together.”
Good for the MLBPA rejecting this. If nothing else, get something for it.
Am I the only one could see a natural transition for Manfred to a NYC street corner (to be named later), selling fake Rolexes? “I swear it’s the real deal, comes with a warranty and everything”
A billionaire buys a baseball team then complains that he must pay so many employees. He knew exactly what he was buying then isn’t happy about what he bought. Seems ridiculous. Everyone of these owners don’t realize that it’s not their game, that they are only a temporary caretaker for it. They cry poor as they try to squeeze every penny away from the players and out of the fans. Unfortunately they will never fire Manfred as he takes the heat for the owners and takes the heart out of the fans
Well, they actually stepped up!
Jeff Passan
Updating: The MLBPA has rejected past offers from MLB that would agree the league can control the number of domestic minor league playing jobs and plans to formally reject the proposal that would allow MLB to cut from 180 per organization to as few as 150
Why is this even an issue? Don’t they have more important problems to resolve?
The major league rules set the limits on number of players on minor league reserve lists, and those rules are made part of the CBA. Much like the amateur (Rule 4) draft, Rule 5 draft, number of options, slot bonuses, etc. So when MLB wants to change any of those things, they need the players’ okay. They would need the players okay to implement an international draft as well.
I find it funny that the owners want the ability to force themselves to limit the number of minor leaguers under contract because the vast majority of them don’t have the self control to do it themselves. There is nothing mandating that a team have the maximum 180 minor leaguers under contract, and not every team does. Also, take away 30 minor league jobs, at less than $20k per player, and you are talking savings of less than $600k per organization. Apparently MLB has never heard of the word “optics”, because they keep doing stuff that doesn’t make much financial impact yet makes them look draconian in their business practices.
True, those salaries are even far less than $20k/player. The total “savings” amounts to less than they spend on the clubhouse drinks for the season.
MLB should have their antitrust exemption removed. They are in essence operating as a legal monopoly for decades now. Most professional sports owners are the equivalent of Russian oligarchs. Billionaires with their own little fiefdoms that pay a commissioner a large salary to do their bidding and dirty work. Baseball owners and Manfred are turning off younger generations to the sport. The average age of the fan/viewer for the sport skews older than basketball and football whose leagues have blown past the “national pastime” that is turning into a national laughing stock.
@angdrew, I agree and the the owners should open their books too.
Funny you should say that because an actual Russian oligarch owns Chelsea Football Club, who last summer won the Champions League and just last weekend won the Club World Cup. A true world champion unlike those from Murica who claim to be one.
As i have gotten older i seriously like to get home from work and read about baseball transactions from all teams. Right now i am starting to go through real baseball transaction dt”s
MLB:
*loads gun*
*aims at foot*
*pulls trigger*
MLB: The Players Union isn’t negotiating in good faith.
Lots of caution by the owners. Becoming obvious that it has a very dim view of the state of your nation and it’s immediate future in terms of economic outlook.
Sure, while billionaires fight millionaires and further push the average fan away because they can’t afford to take a family to watch them, they throw the low level minor leaguers out as sacrificial lambs. Minor league games are the only games families can afford to attend anymore. Kudos to these clowns negotiating…SMH
MLBTR paraphrased the below.. Please explain the logic. of regulating.. You all just copied and pasted…??
“MLB’s proposal could affect different organizations to varying extents. Passan reports that five franchises currently roster more than 180 MiLB players, while two already have fewer than 150. Given that wide discrepancy in roster count between teams, there’s certainly some logic in tighter regulations to balance the field. “
“I love my boss so much I volunteer to wash his car on the weekend. He pats me on the head and gives me a piece of taffy. He’s such a great man!”
The toxic stew of trickle down mixed with jealousy has mind ****ed so many people in this country.
MLB is a house of cards. Ticket prices and concession prices are through the roof. Back up catchers who hit .189 make a million bucks a year.
Plus, the game is boring. On any given night almost half of the 54 outs are by strike out, and that means less action on the field. Who wants to spend $100.00 for a ticket to watch that?
Sooner or later the well is gonna run dry in terms of actual attendance at games.
More K’s is somewhat related to more HR’s.
Also the shifts because they encourage LHBs who can’t or won’t hit to LF to swing even harder.
Maybe it takes the cancellation of an entire season for owners, players and agents to realize there is a problem with MLB. Obviously cancellation of games due to COVID did not work.
MLB players who are, if anything, overpaid, should be mindful of the minor leagues and guys coming up, very few of whom will make the Show for more than a year.
Rather than get ever more for themselves, they should help their younger versions.
Perhaps the Owners should propose a progressive tax on salaries to be distributed to young guys under contract especially those below AAA.
The Owners pay for the future of the game: the training, the instruction, the pay, the provision for leagues for the future Major Leaguers to learn.
The first thing the Players Association should do is unionize the minor league players, but they do not. Why? They care even less about them then the owners do.
No, because the PA can’t unilaterally unionize the minor league players. It has no such powers. The players would have to be organized and vote to join the union, and they’d face strong opposition from MLB the entire way. The concept that the PA could simply waltz in and add minor league players to their union is a total fantasy.
Right, they cannot unionize the minor leagues. But they could help the players at the bottom. Why not set up a fund to supplement their income.
A progressive “tax” that is paid into a “Minor League Players Association” could help minor league players who join up.
MLB insists on paying the minor leaguers starvation wages and it’s major leaguers and who need to step up? Come on, is this is really your argument?
In 2020 David Price generously volunteered to give cash to every player in the Dodgers minor league organization to help them get through the canceled season. It was a totally stand-up thing to do but it only made it conspicuous how MLB didn’t seem to think it needed to do anything for their surfs. Charity begins at home, and for some it ends there too.
Manfred has got to go. He is an idiot and is doing nothing good for baseball
Ok, say the owners fire Manfred or he voluntarily quits, How would his replacement change anything since the Commissioner is hired and paid by the owners. The Commissioner is merely the mouthpiece for the owners. Any future Commissioner would conduct business the same. As David Byrne once sang, “Same as it ever was, Same as it ever was…..”
At the rate the CBA is renewed is going, the season will start in July.
Or, maybe the players want to start in late April so they don’t have to play in cold weather cities….
Baseball should do what football did years ago and just suspend the season. Have AAA games on television or scab players. The players need MLB more than MLB needs them. The players make enough money already just to play a game. Yes I love baseball but enough is enough. I think the NHL did this a couple of years ago and the players learned their lesson that the games will go on with you or without you.
Wow 30 minor league spots is friggin chump change to these owners. They nickel and diming like scum bags now.
This negotiation is a joke!
You have Manfred representing the 30 owner-groups and you can bet he knows exactly what his limits are. The teams have decision-making executives who are not stupid — they didn’t get where they are by being able to hit or throw a baseball. They have a Big Picture outlook.
You have an executive group of players — one per team chosen by his teammates — who know very little about anything except when payday is which doesn’t come until games are played. The Players are led by a few lawyer-types who get paid to keep their jobs.
The Owners know when to get serious and their limits. They know they cannot approve a contract that threatens professional Baseball from rookie ball and the newest player to MLB teams or any of the many many non-playing employees from clubhouse cleaners to instructors to coaches to staff. They have a line — not in sand but in concrete — that they cannot cross from Oakland to Miami to New York.
The Players, who work 8 months a year (if playing is working) with a minimum wage higher than 95% of the population, care about themselves and their teammates. They give lip service to the game after they finish their careers. The biggest concern, if they think about it, is what they’re going to do for the last 50 years of their lives when baseball is done.
Shut up and Play Ball!
This is total nonsense.
Baseball needs its Kenneth Feinberg.