One month after agreeing to an extension that will keep him in Cleveland through 2028, Jose Ramirez and his agent spoke with ESPN’s Alden Gonzalez about how the new contract came together. The third baseman’s deal, which tacked on $115MM in new money to a pair of team-friendly club options, was widely considered to be a shrewd move by the Guardians’ frugal front office. While that may continue to be the case, Ramirez makes it abundantly clear to Gonzalez that his camp was not outmaneuvered.
Per Ramirez’s agent, Rafa Nieves, the star third baseman was flatly told that the club couldn’t afford to pay Ramirez “what [he was] worth”. Instead of welcoming a trade like former teammate Francisco Lindor, Ramirez doubled down on his desire to win a World Series with Cleveland and retire as a rare one-team Hall of Famer. “[W]hen I was a kid looking for an opportunity, this is the organization that gave it to me,” Ramirez recounted. “It was also the team I reached the big leagues with, that gave me my first contract. My dream was to stay here, in this organization. And also my daughter was born in Cleveland, too. I feel a part of that community.”
Accordingly, Ramirez dismissed the difference of earning power in Cleveland versus elsewhere and insisted that a deal get done. Nieves, for his part, mentioned that he and others tried to talk Ramirez out of the deal, and that Cleveland’s final offer was only incrementally better than previous offers thanks to a no-trade clause and lack of salary deferrals.
The exact difference in earning power will forever be speculative, though industry insiders believe that any team who traded for Ramirez would have immediately offered an extension approaching $200MM in new money. In a world where Ramirez reached free agency without an extension, a $35MM annual contract value, equal to the value established by Angels third baseman Anthony Rendon, seemed entirely attainable as well.
Two of Ramirez’s most ardent pursuers on the trade market, the Blue Jays and Padres, would have had various levels of money to allot for a nine-figure contract to their shiniest acquisition. Toronto seems like a prime candidate to issue a hypothesized $200MM contract, whereas the Padres seemingly remain on a quest to shed payroll instead of add to it.
Complicating either trade scenario as well is the fact that both teams have third base spoken for, with Matt Chapman and Manny Machado entrenched at the hot corner for both clubs, meaning a shift to second base would’ve been likely for Ramirez. It’s all moot now of course, but it may please Toronto and San Diego fans who came away empty in their team’s pursuit of Ramirez to know that their keystone players currently rank sixth and fourth in league-wide offensive production.
It’s incredibly soon to declare a final of assessment of Jose Ramirez’s new contract, but the early returns for his club (as well as those who pursued him) are promising. Through 24 games, the switch-hitting All-Star has hit a robust .318/.419/.659 (217 OPS+) with more walks than strikeouts, establishing a pace that may finally net the slugger MVP honors.
The Cleveland ownership deserves zero credit for this. I bet they were bummed he even agreed to this deal.
that one got me lol
Paul Dolan was seen sitting in a corner sobbing “my beautiful money.”
Serious question.. has a small to mid market team ever had success after signing a player to a $200+ million deal? Even if the player performs reasonably well, it always seems like the team does poorly and they end up going into a deep rebuild. Votto/Reds, Miggy/Tigers, Cano/Mariners, Stanton/Marlins, Arenado/Rockies, Greinke/Dbacks.
I’d say the Cano deal worked out for Seattle
Kyle – from the perspective of team performance, they have made the playoffs 0 times since the Cano signing. Cano did have some nice years in Seattle but it did not contribute to anything meaningful. They have largely been irrelevant.
Of course they got a really nice prospect with Kelenic .. but they also had to include a valuable trade chip (at the time) in Diaz, $20 million and take a bad contract back (Bruce)
I don’t think Votto has kept the Reds from performing. He’s been worth the money (though it may be disastrous from here on out, admittedly). Moose, Shogo, other bad signings, terrible trades, mediocre scouting/farm system have done us in.
Votto and Arenado are probably the best in terms of player performance. The contracts were not ‘bad’ deals, but neither led to any sustained success for the team.
You might be right that the Votto contract might not be the primary cause for the lack of success for the Reds but it is certainly a contributing factor, in my opinion. Same could be said for the Rockies. In hindsight, they made a bunch of boneheaded FA signings and had some prospects that never hit heir potential.
Mauer/Twins
If you can’t get by on $141,000,000, you need to check your spending habits. Jose didn’t let absurd levels of greed outrank his own priorities. Good for him.
What are you talking about, the difference and fair market and that number just goes into ownership pockets. If you think living on 141m minus 65% taxes and fees then boy are you not gonna like how the person who kept the money behaves .
You seem to have lost the middle part of your inane point. Your comment makes zero sense.
65% taxes?
Yeah, 65%. I heard CA was dropping their tax rate…
I’m just here to show some love to this comment.
@fink
Payroll is a percentage of revenue. It does not go into the owners pocket. It goes towards the salaries of the other players. By declining to ring every penny towards his own contract, other players will be paid by this small market club. This means Ramirez will have better players around him, and the team will have a better chance to win.
It definitionally does until they decide to spent it elsewhere. “Payroll” is a made up construct to market the idea of some special money that needs to find a home in a specific way. Ultimately, it’s really the principal owner and the balance sheet.
65%? Are we under English rule again?
The top 1% do not pay 65%.
For all the people hollering, average federal for top bracket (42%) state (8%), agent/manager fee (10%) misc fees like SS, unemployment, other (5%). Y’all should be more discerning in your understanding of the modern financial system.
It’s also not the dumbest thing to take that extension while you can. The next huge payday is never guaranteed.
He should have demanded they change their name to the Spiders since he was giving them such a large discount. Their new name, ugh. Awful, awful, awful….
Spiders is dumb too. Get over it.
Spiders are scary.
I think Indians would have been a great name for Cleveland. Too bad it won’t survive in the woke and SJW world today.
Easy for people who’ve never been oppressed to say.
Please do some research into how Native Americans feel about the name and why the team was named “Indians” in the first place
Sports Illustrated already did, 78% approval of American Indian nicknames.
Please….stop lying to justify your bigotry. Just say your a bigot and be proud of it.
Always liked the Wild Things
Already taken by the Frontier League Washington Wild Things.
Spiders is an awful name lol
The Spiders were an absolute disaster that disparaged Cleveland on their way into a tank job so cynical the Reds would blush. They never won anything worthwhile, and they were generally really awful in terms of conduct. Im glad they didn’t bring back the Cleveland Spiders.
Guar-dians
In-dians
Yeah, that’s a huge difference. A whole syllable.
I heard their announcers refer to them during today’s game as “the Guards.” I thought it sounded pretty good.
Spiders, on the other hand?
“Now, in a study published in the British Journal of Psychology, researchers have identified which animals provoke the strongest reactions of fear and disgust, and which are the most common source of animal phobias.
“To do so, the team recruited close to 2,000 online participants via a Facebook group for Czech and Slovakian volunteers, who were then asked to rate both how frightening and how disgusting they found 24 animals that commonly evoke a fear response, plus one control animal (a red panda). Just 10 of those animals received a score of more than three, signifying low-to-moderate fear and disgust levels.
“Spiders were the clear winner, earning a total of 4.39 points out of 5 for fear and 4.47 points for disgust. Indeed, close to 19 percent of the volunteers expressed an extreme fear when exposed to the photo of the spider, though this may be unsurprising given the frequency of arachnophobia and spiders’ ubiquity in horror and Halloween imagery.”
iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/these-are-the-an…
I don’t think “disgust” was the emotion the franchise was aiming for when they picked a name, do you?
It’s not as boring as Guardians. Maybe having Rocket Raccoon as a mascot would help.
A bunch of teams had Star Wars Day on the 4th of May. Guardians of the Galaxy Day at Progressive Field would be a natural. If they don’t capitalize on that connection, they’re missing it.
This is the article Freeman was hoping would be posted about him.
Except, Jose did something about it and Freeman didn’t.
So, yes, Cleveland played a card and he accepted it. He was outmaneuvered.
He wasn’t outmaneuvered, that’s a ridiculous take. He worked with the team he wanted to play for in a city that he loves to do what was best for himself, his family, and the team.
Exactly. And he was two years away from free agency, meaning he was never going to get “free market” money from anybody now. There was no requirement to do so. Ramirez opted for GUARANTEED money NOW rather than gamble on the future. And people think he’s the dumb one? Get real. He’s got 141 million reasons he doesn’t have to worry about security for his family ever again.
There is something to be said for choosing to be happy and rich as opposed to being miserable and even richer.
This is the only reasonable take on regards to Ramirez’s side of things
I doubt whether he would have been “miserable” playing for someone else. A better analogy would be happy and rich or less happy and even richer.
Nobody knows he would’ve been “less happy.” He’s smart to be happy with what he has. Content with what he’s been given and the opportunities afforded him & not believing the grass would be greener.
I found this deal refreshing from a fan’s perspective. Ramirez is obviously happy with the deal and I respect the heck out of him for getting what he believed to be a fair deal that makes him happy. It reminds me of the Kirby Puckett situation where the Red Sox offered him a ton more money in free agency than Minnesota but he decided to stay in Minnesota because it was home to him and he was very happy with what they offered. I’m not pro-owner by any means but in the end, if the player feels like he got a fair deal and he’s happy then that’s all that matters. Maybe Cleveland won’t have to charge $12 for a beer or have a Top 5 ticket price because they have a relatively affordable payroll.
One could argue that Wander Franco was underpaid by Tampa too, but he was extremely happy with their offer and gladly signed it too. I hope more players take this approach going forward (hint, hint Aaron Judge and Xander Bogaerts).
Solid take. My thoughts exactly.
Judge was just in the Rangers game pretending he and others (Rizzo and DJ) care. He will go where the money is.
Absolutely correct here Mantooth. Was like a cold beer for my inner fandom. Refreshing.
It really is a good story. Cleveland fans are accustomed to having their superstar players leave town.. Belle, Manny, Thome, Lindor. All under slightly different scenarios. But then there is Jose, who bent-over-backwards to stay.
“ Jose, who bent-over-backwards to stay.”
And that’s the truth. Really none of this has to do with Cleveland’s FO. They aren’t savvy, they aren’t smart, they aren’t clever to get this deal done. What this is is a throwback. A throwback player, a throwback person, a throwback personality to a different time of loyalty and commitment.
Jose Ramirez is awesome for the way he handled this. In a time when every single star wants every single penny and still cries they didn’t get more….
They should rename their team the Cleveland Ramirezes. Judge is fake. Yes, he’s great for the Yankees because he’s good with the fans, but he’s got no credibility. Ramirez is a man of his word and God bless him for that.
– I’ll always root for the guy just because he’s a stand-up dude.
@ Yankee Clipper
Your comment is largely a good one, but it was unnecessary to disparage the CLE front office. Of course they’re smart and astute; they weren’t willing to overpay for a guy when they didn’t have to–he had two years left–and were only willing to extend him in a fashion that shared risks appropriately for both parties. If that’s not smart, I don’t know what is. Clearly other franchises haven’t been nearly as wise in their expenditures, and they pay dearly for their mistakes.
I think they’re as smart a group as any but they didn’t have to be “smart” to do that deal. Ramirez held all the cards and signed it.
Avory: Well, I see why you say that. My comment wasn’t meant to disparage them in any way. I was referring specifically to this deal, in this context alone, not commenting on their operations or administrative personnel individually or as a whole.
Of course they’re smart for locking up their star and the (arguably) best overall 3B in the league. I meant they didn’t do anything extraordinary other than exist as is to have the deal signed. It was all Ramirez in this instance.
That’s absolutely true. A player could donate a small percentage of his salary for the fans for more affordable food and drinks
Rhubarb, or ownership could reduce food and drink prices. Why should a player who already took a big discount to stay fork over money to help ownership even more?
Right. I’m going to just link to this article any time someone suggests Team X trading for Ramirez and then when people respond with “He has a NTC” they reply to those people with “ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE nO-tRaDe ClAuSeS gEt WaIvEd AlL tHe TiMe ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE !”
The Phillies should have given him the money instead of spending it where they did. Maybe they would not have blown the game today against overachieving Mets.
Phillies need to improve the OF defense with Harper hurt. The Braves have Duvall available who is apparently a good hitter and good defender.
Never had the chance to give him the money. Unless you are talking about signing him as an international FA back in 2009 in which case yeah, every team should have done that.
Cleveland held a few more option years before he was a free agent. A lot can happen in two years. He wasn’t greedy and took a “bird in hand” rather than gamble that he would still be healthy on two years. A smart family man.
Give him credit. He honestly valued staying in cleveland over an extra 60 million he would never be able to spend. Don’t blame guys who go get as much as they are worth, but still a good and refreshing signing…even though I hate Cleveland sports.
Only if he was better looking…
Sure, because looks matter when you can play like he does and I’m sure no toads played for your beloved Yankees. Thanks Fonzi!
Who judge? I know, I can’t stand how his face aligns with his large teeth either! Or are you talking about the magician on the mound? Because my goodness! Luckily his control helps you pay attention to the strike zone instead of having to stare at him lol which one were you talking about? One of them two or someone else?
“retire as a rare one-team Hall of Famer”.
Near 0% chance he makes the Hall of Fame. He’s good, but he’d have to have an unbelievable post age 30 run to make the Hall.
“Near 0% chance he makes the hall of fame”
Craziest take I’ve read on here thus far, and that’s saying something.
Ramirez has been one of the best players in baseball since 2016. If he plays anywhere close to that level over the duration of his extension, he’s pretty much a HOF lock.
This is such a bad take that I actually went and did the math myself.
Since 2016 (his first year as a full time player but the year before he really grew into his power), he’s hit .287/.358/.534 with 162 game averages of 32 homers, 103 RBI, and 173 hits (which are the main HOF counting stats).
Taking those averages over the remaining 7 years of his contract (when he’d still “only” be about 37) and adding them to his career totals would give him just under 400 homers, just under 1,300 RBI, and over 2,200 hits. Even when factoring in the fact that he won’t play 162 games in probably any of those years, those are still big numbers that alone would probably at least get him close to Cooperstown.
Then factor in his defense and baserunning (which have both been well above average so far in his career), 3 All Star appearances, and 3 silver sluggers (and both numbers will probably increase), and that strengthens his case. He’s also already at 35.9 bWAR, so even if he’s only worth 30 wins in the next 7 years (which seems conservative), he’d be in the range of guys like Snider, Biggio, Dawson, McCovey, and Winfield. So if he keeps up his pace, he might not be a first ballot guy but he would definitely make it in.
A bad take is all of you replying to my comments assuming he will have the same numbers in his age 30-37 years from what they were in his first 6 years.
Ramirez has been very good, but under 400 home runs and 2200 hits is not Hall of Fame worthy to me. Everyone wants to turn it into the hall of very good. Just because you like a player, does not make them a better Hall candidate.
Clearly you missed the part where I said he needs to keep up his pace. Injuries happen, declines happen, whatever. It’s unpredictable, but with the info we have, he’s definitely on his way.
I also think this is much different than the “Hall of Very Good” argument. HOF voters care a lot about how a player is viewed around the league during his prime (as opposed to just putting up empty numbers), and you’d be nuts to argue that Jose hasn’t been one of the best all around players in baseball over the last 5-6 years. He’s had one hell of a prime and is young enough that it’s more than fair to expect a few more years of elite numbers. He also has great plate discipline and doesn’t strike out very often, so his game isn’t reliant on power or speed which would more sharply decline as he gets older.
Enough people disagreed with your comment that you seem to be in the minority here. Obviously we’re a long way from knowing how the rest of his career goes (and how he’d do in HOF voting). But you didn’t argue that he’d definitely make it in, you said that there was basically a 0% chance that he’d make it — which is an absurd take.
Your entire argument was based on your assumption he would keep up that pace. So I didn’t miss anything. That would be why my argument was that he won’t keep up the pace. Don’t move the goalposts.
You then go on to say his numbers would “probably get him close to Cooperstown”. Probably close? Yeah, definitely the hall of very good for me. I’m of the “Hall of Famers should be no brainers” mindset. A small hall guy if you will.
As far as being in the minority, I couldn’t care less. I’m not going to change my educated guess based on more random internet people disagreeing with me than agreeing .
And I “didn’t argue he’d definitely make it in”. Obviously….that was the entire point of my post. No clue what point you think you were making there.
You think he will get in. I don’t. It’s what makes baseball and the HOF fun. I’m done with this conversation.
And your argument is based off the assumption he won’t keep up that pace. Don’t move the goalposts.
You obviously don’t understand what the phrase, “moving the goalposts” means. The original argument of the person I replied to assumed he would keep up the pace. They then changed their argument to say “if he keeps up the pace and avoids injuries and decline”. By changing/adding conditions to their argument midstream, they have effectively “moved the goalposts”. My argument from the very beginning was that he will not keep up the pace/have the numbers at the end of his career.
Your confusion is that making an assumption is “moving the goalposts”, when in reality it is the change of criterion that gives one side an advantage that effectively “moves” them.
I hope this lesson helps you in your future trolling endeavors.
If his agent were really on the ball he would’ve said, “Okay, Jose, we’ll agree to the basic offer but give me a couple more negotiating sessions to wring some non-salary concessions out of them. We’re talking about building your brand as a partner with the team, so we want to have your name & face on everything we can imagine, programs & tickets of course. But also any & all current & future digital, the physical stadium, do you want your name on the individual seats? How about parking, can we do anything there? Goodyear facilities naming rights for anything there? And of course if you don’t want to do too many tv & radio appearances we at least need some input on when, wher, & how for those. How about design credit for any future new uniforms? Maybe a special ‘Jose Ramirez’ kiosk at or outside the stadium to sell your own branded items. In a week I’ll come up with a list of ideas & we’ll make a few extra mill.”
Or: Jose & his agent could have out-foxed them all just by demanding a c.p.i. escalator. It’s plain as day that inflation is going to devalue any long contract over the next few years, to the owners’ benefit. A simple CPI clause & he’d be laughing for years to come.
I respect him as a man, and hate him as a player. Would have loved to see this guy go to a different division.
I wonder if Jose married the first girl that kissed him on the check in kindergarten.
If expansion comes and divisions are realigned it could be a decade before Cleveland is a playoff team.
decades before guardians makes the playoffs ? where do you come up with that idea. since Tito became Manger of the tribe they have a top 5 winning percent during that time. no way this team averages 90 to 100 losses during Jose remaining time in Cleveland
Should Tampa Bay move from Tampa to Las Vegas ( as they seem to want to do), Kansas City would be moved to the west (to join Vegas), Houston and Texas would wind up in the central and Cleveland would be moved to the east to fill the spot vacated by Tampa Bay.
I said if divisions are realigned it could take a decade. Not decades.
Yes they had some laughs over the last 10 but unarguably benefitted from a very soft division.
And I’m sure the MLBPA was upset with him taking the hometown discount much like they were last time he signed as well as when Carrasco signed too.
Bottom line: Ramirez extension does not and will not put extra bodies in seats. The Cleveland area might like the Indians, but they do a poor job of supporting them. This team should have made an effort to move to Nashville instead of extending their lease. Save for 33,000 on opening day, attendance has been brutal. Don’t blame the weather, they always have weather issues by the lake. Drawing 18 to 20 thousand a game for 3 months doesn’t save this situation. I’m a full season ticket holder for my favorite NHL team. One of the reasons why is because I don’t want them to have an excuse to leave.
Jose Ramirez is absolutely refreshing in these days of total greed. The Bible says to be content with what you have. Todays athletes have no idea of what that means. Anyway,I’m glad he chose to stay in Cleveland. The last time I can remember a player showing this kind of class was Travis Fryman. He tuned down a $600,000 dollar bonus(which he legally had coming to him) because he said he didn’t earn it. Man do we need more people like that in sports and everyday life.