Ever since it emerged that the Nationals are willing to entertain trade offers on Juan Soto, the whole baseball world has been obsessed with trying to figure out where he could go and what a fair trade would even look like. That likely won’t change, with Soto rumors sure to continue flying every day until the August 2 deadline, unless a trade is completed sooner.
MLBTR’s Steve Adams recently took a look at the situation, outlining how Soto is arguably the most attractive trade chip in recent memory or perhaps ever. Given his talent, youth and remaining years of control, just about every team is going to be calling the Nats and getting a feel for what kind of deal they’re looking to make.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports that the discussions have begun and, unsurprisingly, Soto is drawing widespread interest. He lists the Mariners, Padres, Giants, Dodgers, Cardinals, Yankees and Mets as seven teams that have already opened up the lines of communication with Washington.
None of those are particularly surprising, with all seven of them having been listed by Adams as being among the best fits. There is a potential complicating factor in the talks, as Jim Bowden of The Athletic reports that the Nationals want to combine Soto with Patrick Corbin in trades, in order to get Corbin’s contract off their books. As an additional detail, Jesse Dougherty of The Washington Post looks at the pros and cons of including Corbin in the deal, adding that Corbin has a partial no-trade clause. Despite that, Dougherty adds that this won’t prevent a deal from coming together, implying that either Corbin’s clause is minimal enough to not include the primary suitors, or perhaps that he would be willing to waive the clause and move to a new club with Soto.
While the Nationals are surely open to moving Corbin and getting out from under his contract, it’s unclear how important that is to them. Signed to a six-year, $140MM contract prior to 2019, the first season was a resounding success. Corbin threw 202 innings with a 3.25 ERA, then added another 23 1/3 frames in the postseason as the Nats won the first World Series title in the history of the franchise. It’s been essentially all downhill since then, however, with Corbin’s strikeouts disappearing and ERA escalating. After strikeout rates of 30.8% in 2018 and 28.5% in 2019, he’s been hovering around 20% in the three subsequent seasons. His ERA shot up to 4.66 in 2020, then 5.82 last year and 5.87 this year.
As for Corbin’s contract, it was heavily backloaded. His salary this year is $23.42MM, leaving approximately $8MM to be paid out from the deadline onwards. Then he’ll make $24.42MM next year and a big jump to $35.42 in 2024. That’s the last year of the deal, though there’s also $10MM in deferred money to be paid out from November of 2024 to January of 2026.
The combination of Corbin’s poor performance and hefty salary give him negative trade value. As such, any Corbin-Soto combo trade will lead to the Nationals recouping a lesser prospect package than a trade involving Soto alone. On the surface, it seems strange that the Nats would be strongly motivated towards such a scenario. Trading Soto means giving up on being competitive through 2024 anyhow, so getting Corbin’s contract off the books for that season shouldn’t be a high priority. With Soto out of the picture, the only other meaningful salary they will be paying in 2024 and beyond is going to Stephen Strasburg, who’s getting $35MM per year through 2026. Spending $70MM to Strasburg and Corbin in 2024 surely isn’t ideal, but the rest of the roster will likely be filled out with pre-arb players or those who have just qualified and earned minimal raises. The club ran a payroll of $183MM as recently as last year, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, and has already stripped it down to $135MM this year.
But if the Nats are indeed motivated to get that money off the ledger ahead of schedule, it will change the calculus of which teams make the most sense as trading partners. Teams on the receiving end will be taking on two meaningful salaries, as Soto is well-paid himself. He’s earning $17.1MM this year and will be due arbitration raises in the next two campaigns, possibly getting near the $25MM range next year and above $30MM for 2024, as long as he stays healthy. Even for the rest of this campaign, Soto will have about $6MM left to be paid out at the time of the deadline. Combined with the approximately $8MM owed to Corbin, that will add $14MM to this year’s payroll for any team acquiring both.
As Steve Adams highlighted in the piece linked above, all seven teams that Nightengale listed have marquee young players that could headline a return in a Soto deal. The prospect of taking Corbin in return might be more exciting to some than others, however. The Padres crossed the luxury tax line last year and have been right up against it this year, seemingly loath to cross it for a second straight season and therefore facing escalating penalties. They’ve been rumored to be trying to trade away one of their pitchers in order to create payroll space for additions elsewhere. Suddenly acquiring another expensive starter, and one who isn’t pitching well, would fly in the face of those plans. Although, perhaps Soto’s availability is such a unique situation that it makes them rethink everything.
The Cardinals had an Opening Day payroll of $155MM, per Cot’s, which is a bit shy of their $164MM record. Adding $14MM to get into record territory is likely an acceptable outcome this year, but would become complicated in the years to come. Adam Wainwright’s $17.5MM is the biggest contract coming off the books at the end of the year, but there would likely be mutual interest in another deal, based on precedent. He’s having another excellent season and would likely command a similar contract. Yadier Molina’s $10MM is coming off the books, though Soto and Corbin would add about $50MM onto it, and the Cards would still have to figure out a solution behind the plate.
The Mets already have a massive payroll but don’t seem to have any limitations in that regard. Owner Steve Cohen has expressed a willingness to spend beyond the fourth CBT barrier, which the club is already right on top of. Jason Martinez of Roster Resource calculates their CBT number as $290.1MM, a smidge over the $290MM barrier. Regardless of the financial picture, however, there’s the question of whether the Nats have any interest in trading Soto within the division. Andy Martino of SNY reports that Soto landing with the Mets is extremely unlikely, with the Nats not keen on seeing Soto return to Washington so frequently with a new uniform.
The Giants and Mariners might be in a better position than these other teams to take on meaningful salary in order to get Soto. The Giants had a payroll of $155MM on Opening Day, per Cot’s, but were up at $201MM a few years ago. They also have some decent money coming off the books this winter. Carlos Rodon is making $21.5MM and can opt out if he reaches 110 innings pitched. Given that he’s currently at 105 and having another excellent season, he’s a virtual lock to trigger that opt-out. Brandon Belt accepted the $18.4MM qualifying offer and will return to the open market in a few months. Brandon Crawford is making $16MM this year and next, but a free agent after that. The only guaranteed contract they have on the books for 2024 is the $12MM owed to Anthony DeSclafani. The Mariners opened the year at $104MM, per Cot’s, but have been in the $150-160 range in recent years.
As for the Yankees and Dodgers, they’re both running franchise-high payrolls but might still like the idea of Corbin’s contract being involved. Recent reporting has suggested both clubs are leery of decimating their farm systems in order to acquire Soto, despite his talents. Taking on Corbin and reducing the prospect hit should appeal to both clubs.
Of course, all this still seems to be exploratory on the part of the Nationals. Getting rid of Corbin’s money surely has appeal, but they will also have to weigh that against the offers they get that don’t involve Corbin. If one teams offers, say, six good prospects but doesn’t want Corbin, would the Nats really take a less package just to get Corbin out the door? There’s at least some precedent, given that the Red Sox included David Price in the Mookie Betts deal. However, the situations are not entirely analogous, as the Red Sox had gone over the luxury tax in the two previous seasons and were primarily interested in tearing down their roster for the cost savings. For the Nats, they are already operating with a budget well below previous seasons and should theoretically be more concerned with maximizing their prospect return in any Soto deal.
LordD99
Many moving parts. Soto won’t be traded until the offseason.
Joe says...
I hope the Yankees stay away. Yankees with Castillo and Happ > Yankees with Soto.
Mickey777
Joe, As usual you propose an interesting proposition. Despite the Yankees recent bad play, they are nearly certain to at least make the playoffs. So you could argue which choice makes you better in the playoffs. Castillo would be a major upgrade in the starting pitching category, but unless Happ has a hot streak during the playoffs he doesn’t improve their playoff chances significantly. Soto is that much needed left handed hitter. He’s got plenty of power, is a very good situational hitter, he hits good pitching, and perhaps most importantly is a superior clutch hitter. So, over the regular season I agree they are better off with Castillo and Happ, but against Houston I think they are better with Soto.
Wonder what the difference in price would be? Both proposals would obviously be very costly!
Mickey777
Asked your question to Anthony Franco during insiders trade chat. He agreed with you! He made no other comment.
HiAndTight
Soto is a modern day Ted Williams. I can’t IMAGINE putting him in Yankees stadium with Judge, Stanton and that lineup. It’d be just…ridiculous.
If there’s any team that should make that deal…it’d be the Yankees. As for Corbin…who knows, maybe he has a nice run in the 2nd half. But if the Yankees could get Soto/Corbin for Volpe, Dominguez and Waldichuk and then make the Nats send over 25M…that feels like it’d be WELL worth it.
LaMahieu-3B
Judge-CF
Soto-RF
Stanton-DH
Rizzo-1B
Torres-2B
Hicks-CF
Trevino-C
José Iglesias
Then maybe swing a deal with the Rockies for Jose Iglesias…
Or since I don’t care about the Yankees and I’m just looking at a video game lineup, go ahead and trade for Contreras as well. Throw him in at Catcher!
Then give Judge a 10/400 deal and Soto a 13 year 550M dollar deal and maybe in a few years, the ’27 Yankees will take on a whole new meaning…
Yankees98
100% agree. There isn’t enough lead time for Washington to evaluate potential returns. Soto will be with a new team come 2023. Who that is, I am not sure, but I think if the Dodgers or Yankees want to say we will take Strasburg instead of Corbin of their hands, the prospect cost would be much lighter.
MTPS (My trade Proposal Sucks)
Strasburg and Soto to Yankees
Volpe, Dominguez, Waldchuk and Hicks (to offset some salary not because I think any team really want him) to Nationals.
Holy Cow!
Strasburg has full no trade, but if he was willing to go and the Yanks took on the contract, it would be fair to send back just Volpe and Hicks.
But the Nats want to load up their roster with prospects and MLB-ready players, so if the trading team is light on value, they would need to take Corbin.
I agree this won’t get done before the deadline and it might be a year before he is traded when Soto’s value declines because of less team control.
Captain Judge99
@Donny Elementary- still thinking Volpe will be traded? Smh
goastros123
Nationals will probably ask for Volpe and they should.
Captain Judge99
@goastros123- the Nationals have already asked for Volpe, and we’re told that he wasn’t available in a trade. Trust me it’s not a deal breaker, especially with the Yankees having to take Corbin’s horrific contract back.
goastros123
If you say so.
LLGiants64
If the Nats want to load up on prospects and MLB ready players they could sign, well, Soto.
HiAndTight
And…why are we trusting YOU?
One thing I’ve learned…is when people insist that we should trust them…we should not.
coocoo20
No way!!!!
Desert Yankee
River Ave Blues reader? Dunno if MTPS is used universally. After watching the Yankees lose to the Astros and again not having the lead at given point, I wasn’t exactly sad to see them not win. I almost wonder if it would have created a false sense of security. True, they didn’t play Judge and Stanton, but also the Stros didn’t play Alvarez. Monty settled down and pitched just fine. The point I’m arriving to is while Castillo would be a great addition, with their current offense a series loss to the Astros wouldn’t be shocking right now. If you want Soto and wait till the offseason you run the risk of Judge or Soto…..Or maybe neither. A Soto trade before the deadline takes place will help dictate how you should handle the offseason with Judge and how deperate you are. Soto would give the team the leg up they need to be favored against the Astros. To me, that’s what it’s all about right now.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“True, they didn’t play Judge and Stanton, but also the Stros didn’t play Alvarez.”
Alvarez played in the second game, went 2-4 with leadoff home run, scored twice and drove in three runs in a game decided by two runs.
There’s more than two months of baseball before the playoffs and the Yankee rotation is staffed with guys who haven’t pitched full seasons recently. I think they need a pitcher like Castillo more than they need Soto.
Captain Judge99
@Yankees98- definitely not happening. Smh
Wrian Washman
You have a great start now just toss in 2 more pieces to go with the Volpe, Dominguez, Chuck headline and that’s about right. They will most likely have to be pitchers so Medina and Wes should seal the deal.
Captain Judge99
@Wrian Washman- definitely not happening, especially if the Yankees are taking on Patrick Corbin or Stephen Strasburg’s contract. Take out Volpe and add Peraza, along with Hicks and Gallo going back to Washington to offset the bad contract coming back with Soto.
Wrian Washman
Rest assured Volpe and the Martian are gone regardless of Corbin or no Corbin. The only thing that changes is we get to keep Chuck and the Nats get their picks of #20 through #30.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Do you really believe that the Nationals were headed into the trade deadline and haven’t had scouts out evaluating potential trade destinations? As much as they make it seem and people seem to believe, they didn’t just come out of nowhere and start this trade rumor. I think they’ve been planning all of this from the beginning.
The first step was to leak they would trade Juan Soto, so people were keyed into the Nationals,
Next, they do a fake denial on national news to decry all the people that believe they would ever trade a franchise player like Soto (this is for the sake of the fans who don’t want him traded).
Third step is to put two proposals in front of him that they knew he would decline (I’m sure Boras told them in the past that Juan wasn’t comfortable signing an extension without knowing who ownership would be in the future).
Fourth step is to pretend like there is no sense of urgency for the Nationals to figure this out.
Facts:
1) A new owner will pay more for the team with Corbin off the books.
2) The Nationals aren’t taking back anyone with less than 3-4 years of control and over 24 and unless it is a star caliber player under 26 who could be extended in the future, like Rafael Devers for instance.
3) He will not be traded to the NL East
4) The Nationals need to resolve the situation with Soto before a new owner is named because nobody buying the team wants the fan base to associate them will trading a local icon,
5) The cost of Soto and Corbin will dictate who gets him more than the talent of the farm system.
6) They are going to want a headliner with a high floor and who also has an elevated ceiling of potential, but the rest will probably be about adding as much quality talent as they can, rather than two or three star prospects for Soto.
The harsh reality is even the best systems have a huge attrition rate when developing prospects and no matter how great your supposed prospects are, so Washington is going to want to get as many bullets to use against the fan base in a couple years when justifying the Soto trade, which is why floor over ceiling will matter.. They’d rather get four 3+ WAR players, than 1 5+ WAR player and a bunch of failed prospects. Looking at all the holes on the field for the Nationals and it’s obvious why Soto, Bell, Ruiz and AAA players is not a working recipe for wins, especially in the ultra-competitive NL East.
Papabueno
Rizzo and the Nats FO have probably been looking at trade scenarios for Soto all season (after he turned down their extension offer last winter). IMO, better to have several teams in “win now” mode competing for Soto. Several of those teams might not be as interested over the winter.
NWMarinerHawk
I am starting to lean that way too. I feel like every team has their max offer package already prepared and ready to negotiate literally as soon as the Nats opened the door. So far we have absolutely zero traction, I think the nats will hardball this and get as much as humanly possibly even if it takes until the winter meetings to get that done. They won’t settle
YourDreamGM
Worth less with 2 instead of 3 post season runs. I can’t predict future but I would think they very much want to trade him now.
Cosmo2
I don’t see two post season runs as opposed to 3 as decreasing Soto’s value. His value is too maxed out, he’ll get top prospects with 3 years of control and the same with two.
Dustyslambchops23
You would think, but it was a pretty bold move to not send him on the team plane to LA for the ASG.
Seems there’s some hurt feelings and bitterness
kodiak920
I think you are right.
Captain Judge99
For all you fools on here that were saying that Stephen Strasburg or Patrick Corbin weren’t going to be included in a package with Juan Soto this is for you!
bucsfan0004
I got blasted on here mercilessly for even mentioning the possibility of tacking on one of those bloated contracts in a trade
tbonenats
I am not certain that the Nats will attach a contract. The Lerners are very aware of what they want their legacy to be. I think they either squash a Soto trade and make the next owners decide, or they try to get as much as possible for him and not worry about attaching a contract.
They still could try to include Corbin, but I don’t think it is a lock.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Of course they are going to attach a contract because prospects don’t add tangible value to an organization like dollars available and dollars spent. Bottom line for a new owner is how much debt am I taking on, not how many future stars I may or may not have in the minors. In terms of accounting, you have to assume every prospect is a bust and anything that materializes from the minors is a bonus on top of what you already have in the majors.
tbonenats
$60m owed to a player over 2 years is not going to have a massive impact on a $2B transaction for what will likely be a 10-20 year investment for the new owner(s).
The Lerners are worried about their legacy being tarnished and fans remembering how they refused to lock up and home grown bats and let Harper and Rendon walk for nothing. Local speculation is they either pony up for Soto or trade him for prospects without attaching a contract to get a maximum haul.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
The only Lerner that matters will be dead before the ink dries on the sale of ownership contract and yes operating income does matter for an organization. Basic accounting says that no entity is going to pay for a team with zero chance to win. There is no way to build a winner with Strasburg and Corbin on the books. Everyone keeps thinking about the value of Soto and the “insignificant effect of Corbin to the sale of the team. Let’s say you are the Nationals and you trade Soto for a solid return and get rid of Corbin’s contract, you’ll be opening up $50M on next year’s payroll. The alternative to trading Soto and Corbin would be $24.5M to Patrick and $24M to Soto, plus there’ll be someone like Arano added into the deal which will amount to $1M or so.
For moving Soto ($24M), Corbin ($24.5M), Cruz ($16M), and the expiring contract of Bell ($10M), Harris ($8M), Hernandez ($4M), and Ross ($2.4M) the Nationals have almost $89M to spend not including the $2M and order contracts that will go away.
Soto and Bell being traded to playoff teams should add talent to the farm system, but I would let Bell know you intend to bring him back after the season, if he’s interested.
During the offseason Josh Bell returns for $110M/6-years + incentives. you add Jose Abreu to DH on a 3-year deal for $35M + incentives. That’s two solid bats for around $30M/year. Then you add Brandon Nimmo to play RF for $85M/5-years. and you still have $42M left to spend, so you offer Turner $325M/10 years to return (Seager’s contract), leaving $10M without raising the budget. I would add someone like Adam Frazier on a $2M + incentives deal to play 2B, Kyle Gibson on a $25-30M/3-year deal
By the time you’re done you have a lineup with Turner, Nimmo, Bell, Abreu, Garcia Ruiz, Robles, and Frazier along with a rotation of Gibson, Gray, Espino, and Fedde to go along with any prospects gained over the trade deadline and the existing players in the system. That’s a pretty solid team and they could probably make a solid run at 70-80 wins as they introduce prospects into the clubhouse over the next couple seasons. For what it’s worth,
I could also argue for Benintendi over Nimmo or convince ownership to add a few million to the cap to sign Judge ($38M ~ $300M/8-years), Swanson ($25M ~ $200M/8-years), and Haniger ($10M ~ $20M/2-years) for $73M/year instead of Nimmo, Turner, and Abreu for $62M/year. The point is there are options that come with cash flow and young controllable players.
tbonenats
I’m sorry but that plan doesn’t make much sense if you’re trying to eventually win a title. Trading away a 23 year old player instead of locking him up for 15 years, only to go out and sign a bunch of 30 year old players to 6-10 year deals just doesn’t sound like a good plan. The team you propose fielding next year would not have a realistic chance of making the playoffs since the pitching is so poor and there are still decent holes in the lineup.
We have no clue what the next ownership group will want the annual payroll to be. They may want to operate at $150m or $100m or $250m. We just don’t know.
But anyone buying the Nationals knows they are buying a team in the middle of a rebuild. I doubt they come in and drop $500-600m on contracts for a bunch of 30 year olds to field a team that has no shot of contending without another massive spending offseason.
outinleftfield
Any debts owed by the team, and the money guaranteed to Corbin and Soto in arbitration are debts, is money that comes directly out of the selling parties check when the team is sold. Lerners are rich, but not rich enough that they want to take $60 million out of their bank account for some non-existent “legacy”.
Deleted Userr
I honestly don’t see how they trade Soto without attaching Corbin. Soto’s trade value is so astronomically high that only a small handful of teams can put together a prospect package that is realistically worth it for the Nats and those teams might not want to sell their entire farm for one player. But if they are also dumping Corbin it is much more realistic.
Ella B
99, you must think the Nats FO are fools. Take on Corbin and Soto and Nats don’t get Volpe but do get Gallo, and Hicks, along w/Peraza, Dominguez, and Waldchuk?!? How generous of you to try and offload your trash. Nats are laughing.
Captain Judge99
@Ella B- I don’t think the Nats are fools. I know they are for not extending Juan Soto properly. Sorry kid the truth hurts so much.
Captain Judge99
@LordD99- you don’t really know that. It definitely seems like the Nationals want to definitely move him now, after he rejected they’re contract extension offer.
goastros123
Irony.
Captain Judge99
@goastros123- that’s all you got to say? You seem pretty quiet now? Lol
goastros123
Oh no, I could say more. That’s not all I have to say, but rather, that’s all I need to say. Lol. After all, YOU telling another person “you don’t really know that” is very ironic.
Captain Judge99
@goastros123- you don’t know how much I know. You’d be surprised how much I know. I’ve been sworn to secrecy unfortunately. I do have a connection, and II hear a lot. Just can’t say how I know, that’s all. Don’t take it so personal man.
goastros123
I never once took it personally. You’re fine.
Captain Judge99
@goastros123- you seem cool. Sort of shocked you don’t like my trade offer for Juan Soto and Patrick Corbin though. Corbin is owed a ton of money for the next few years, and I still gave the Nats my #2, #3, #4 and #5+ prospects in the Yankees organization. I actually have Jasson Dominguez as my #2 and Oswald Peraza as my #3 top prospect. If though the Yankees have it the other way around.
goastros123
I just think if I’m the Nationals, I ask for everything. There is a risk to doing that because you might be asking for too much for a, albeit talented player, but a player nonetheless who will ask for the moon when it comes to an extension. I never said I’d reject your offer if I was them. I’d probably accept. This deal is going to be tricky because Soto deserves a good return, but also an extension will cost a lot of money and other teams know that. Some of that money could be used to help other areas of the team. I honestly don’t know what a good offer for Soto would be because of those factors. I think it will be interesting to see who ponys up. What I do know is that the Yankees do have it what it takes to get him.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Well, he’s definitely not signing an extension with them after they refused to charter him a flight to the All-Star game. It was reported they made him fly commercial and spend hours in the ATL terminal after Sunday’s game, waiting to fly to L.A., right after he rejected the extension. Super classy by the Lerner family. I will say Soto’s stock went way up when he refused to say a bad word about ownership or their handling of the negotiations, even going so far as to say he wants to stay in Washington and feels comfortable there, which in hindsight shows how mature and disciplined he is talking to the press. Add into the fact those statements should increase the cost to acquire him and he did the Lerner family a huge favor increasing his trade value when he could have torpedoed the whole negotiations forthcoming. I guess he really just wants to get to playing for a contender.
BaseballisLife
Without Corbin he is gone before the deadline. With Corbin it probably is never because Corbin has been the worst pitcher in baseball the past 2 seasons.
17dizzy
Agreed!! Too many moving parts with Soto!!
For the types and number of players it would take out of the Cardinals organization to obtain Soto would be ungodly!!
If the Cardinals were going to do that—-why wouldn’t they step up a little higher and work out a trade with the Angels for Ohtani???
The Cardinals need an impact Starting pitcher, and an impact bat!!!! Seems to me that kills 2 birds with one stone!!! (No Pun Intended!)
Joe says...
I think in the end Soto goes to the Dodgers.
Shrutefarm
I hope not
goastros123
That would be boring.
tstats
Either in FA or trade? If you read the MLB.com article IIRC LA was the only one taking on Corbin’s contract and still gave up more prospect capital than most other teams. If what they had on mlb.com as the outlined trade is the actual price (May Miller Vargas Pages Outman for Corbin’s contract and Soto) it might be too high. A replacement from May to White might be in order. Or I’m crazy and that’s a fair price for the pair. Soto is definitely worth those prospects (plus probably a pair of lotto tix) but I don’t see why adding Corbin should cost more. Thoughts?
Joe says...
I think adding Corbin’s contract should greatly reduce the return especially how back loaded it is. Soto is awesome and all but I think a lot of people are getting carried away on what Washington will be getting back.
bucsfan0004
Corbin isn’t horrible (shown signs of life recently). And i’m assuming Washington would send minimum $20MM+ in any trade package, probably closer to half of the remaining contract to get the best possible prospects for Soto.
Pads Fans
Corbin is horrible. The very worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2021-2022.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Actually his FIP and xFIP are encouraging, especially when you watch him pitch in front of a team of DHs miscast as infielders. His strikeout rate is good, his walk rate is solid. Considering the number of hits he’s surrendered his HR/9 is only slightly below average, but it’s hardly HR derby when he’s on the mound. He eats innings and from watching his highlights, it has more to do with crappy defense and pitch calling.
After looking at Corbin, I would stop throwing sinkers and sliders to right-handed batters, he has given up 14 of 17 HRs on those two pitches, 15 were hit by RH batters, only Yelich and Schwarber hit a HR against his slider, no lefty has taken his sinker deep in 2022. On the other side, his fastball and changeup have only surrendered 3 HR, Schwarber in the same game hit his 4-seamer and he has given up 1 HR against his changeup and 1 HR against his 4-seamer to RH batters.
I think he needs to get a little bi-polar when pitching, if he focused on throwing to lefties mostly sinkers (breaks down and in) and sliders (breaks down and away), he would be more effective when sneaking in a 4-seamer or a changeup to put away a batter or to steal a strike.
When facing righties, he should essentially pitch off his 4-seam and change up almost exclusively. He should also work on the grip for his changeup by converting it to a circle-change, so it has the effect of falling away from righties, aside from that he should develop a cutter for righties just to straighten up a batter who is leaning out over the plate,
Most importantly, he needs to move around the rubber and get more towards the 3B side when facing righties. Both his HRs against RH batters on his changeup and 4-seamer were in the middle of the plate. moving more towards 3B would have left those on the inside corner, which also would setup a cutter to get batters chasing in off the plate.
It sounds like a lot, but his problems stem from pitch selection against platoon splits, poor defense, and needing to move towards the other side of the rubber against righties. Against lefties the optics of him throwing left-handed makes the ball feel like it’s coming from behind you, sliders should be more effective in this situation, but only if you are pitching on the insider corner to keep left-handed hitters from leaning out to reach the slider on the outside corner, hence the .sinker to run in under the hands of lefties.
These are all changes that would be fixed by playing in front of a top 10 defense, having a pitching coordinator who can breakdown film, and by adjusting some grips in his bullpens until he’s ready to introduce them into the game. Going to Seattle would actually be a good fit for him as Pete Woodward is an excellent pitching coach, he’s familiar with Robbie Ray from his days in Arizona, Marco could really help him develop his changeup, the Mariners have one of the best defenses in the league, Safeco plays big for southpaws, and sometimes it’s just about getting a change of scenery.
Shrutefarm
I think it is not worth it to give up so much equity. By adding Soto, what would the Dodger’s WS odds go from? 3:1 to 2.5:1 (playoffs are a crap shoot anyway)
Whatever it is, it would barely move the needle for this season, but it would stunt the growth of the roster for years to come.
No thanks
Captain Judge99
@tstats- if that’s the case the Dodgers should reconsider making the deal for Soto and acquire Castillo from the Reds instead. That’s a lot of $ to take on, give up your top prospects, and then have to sign Mr. Soto to an extension? Smh, pass
Captain Judge99
@Joe says… I think in the end your right.
AverageCommenter
Juan Soto is the greatest thing to ever happen to this site.
JimmyForum
A lot of people think that I am
Cubensis of Saturn
Johan Santana enters the chat.
Only long time readers will remember what those days were like.
luclusciano
We could even go more recent with Harper and Machado.
Say Hey Now Kid
What was the talk on Santana? I wasn’t around back then
Cubensis of Saturn
I remember Yanks and Red Sox being the two teams every writer thought would get Santana. Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera leading the yankees offer and the sox offering Lester and Jed Lowrie. I was also listening to Bill Simmons podcast at the time and he was pushing hard for Johan. People thought the Mets would have to give up Jose Reyes to land him but things played out differently. Hank was against giving Santana a huge deal at one point and Boston loved their prospects too much to pull the trigger.
fivetwos
I really see them not being blown away and pushing pause until the offesason.
Its potential career changing stuff for FO types.
LordD99
It’s a very short window—a little over two weeks—to ask teams to rip apart their current rosters and minor leagues, while also asking the Nats to do a full review if talent and offers. If the Nats are blown away by an offer I can see it happening, but mostly they’re doing an assessment to prepare to trade Soto in the offseason.
Cubensis of Saturn
You’re probably right lorddgg. I was shocked to see them move Trea last year though and they did a lot of scouting when shopping Schrezer. Maybe Rizzo is comfortable with his scouts grasp of other farms. Or maybe the nats owner want a clean slate and more prospects before selling the team this offseason.
ButchAdams
To me the addition of Corbin makes the rangers make more sense. Although, his contract isn’t ideal, rangers need ppl to eat innings until Leiter, rocker, white and hopefully porter are ready. And in doing so also lessens the the prospect cost. If they can get Soto and Corbin for say. Huff who hasn’t been given a chance due to heim playing well, fescue who’s blocked by semien, Cole Winn who’s still considered top prospect but struggling in aaa, and Jung who can’t seem to stay healthy but all r in top 100. Go for it
YourDreamGM
So a struggling guy and a guy that can’t stay healthy. That sounds appealing to the Nats.
ButchAdams
For a guy they can’t sign and a guy paid double what he’s worth
ButchAdams
I mean how appealing is 2 yrs $55m to a pitcher with 5.00+ era.
Cubensis of Saturn
This is escalating quickly.
The Nats leaking what offers Soto was turning down seemed to foreshadow all of this but I’m still surprised how fast things seem to be moving. Plus the offered AAV’s were never competitive even if the length was ridiculously long.
Red Sox had to pay 50% of Price’s salary to get a mediocre return for Mookie but Soto does come with extra years of control. I wonder how much $ the Nats will include or are they punting on the prospect return.
bucsfan0004
It just shows Soto doesn’t want to stay. If he had any interest, they would work on the AAV and come to an agreement.
Pads Fans
If the company you work for asked you to take a cut in pay both in terms of what you would make next year and in terms of AAV compared to what you would automatically make the following year in exchange for a 15 year contract, would you take it?
That is what the Nationals did. They offered Soto a 15/440 contract that was heavily backloaded with his first year salary ($16 million in 2023) being less than he is making this year ($17 million) and with the AAV value ($29.3 million) over 15 years being less than he would automatically get in arbitration for the 2024 season ($30-32 million).
Of course he didn’t take it. It was a slap in the face,
Hi! You are one of the best in the game and only 23 years old so we are offering you a cut in your pay. Uh….FU!!!
JoeBrady
It was a slap in the face,
=========================
Just so I understand, they offered him the largest contract in the history of the game, and it was a slap in the face?
And before this year, Tatis was the better player. If $440M was a slap in the face, what is the $340M that the Padres offered Tatis?
And assuming that Tatis returns healthy, I would gladly take his $340M contract over a Soto $440M contract.
SodoMojo90
Kirby, Kelenic, Marte. Another top 10 prospect and 2 15-20 prospects
Cubensis of Saturn
I think that might be too much if the M’s have to take on all or most of Corbin’s contract. I could be wrong though
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Mariners can do it with Noelvi Marte, Emerson Hancock, Jerred Kelenic, Matt Brash, and a couple single-A players. I don’t think they have to give up Kirby.
Captain Judge99
@Ignorant Son-of-a-b- if your thinking that Julio Rodriguez wouldn’t be going back for Juan Soto, you’re definitely fooling yourself.
goastros123
And the same goes for Volpe and you, Captain judge99.
Javia135
@Captain Judge99
You do realize that Julio Rodriguez is far, far more valuable than Volpe is right now, correct? Yet you keep insisting that Volpe won’t go in a Soto trade? You are fooling yourself a lot more than Ignorant Son-of-a-b is.
bob9988 2
Are you serious? There’s a decent argument to be made that Julio Rodriguez is the most value player in the sport. When factoring his age, service time, cost/control, his impending ROY bonus draft picks his team will get and the fact that he has superstar written all over him. the Nats would come out better than before on their ML club if it was Soto for Rodriguez straight up.
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- I never said Volpe was more valuable then Rodriguez, not once. If the Nationals trade Soto they will likely need a young, cheap All-Star outfielder back though. Rodriguez definitely fills all the boxes to replace Soto. Volpe is not ready to play shortstop or wherever in the majors right now. Peraza is, that’s my point. The Nats can plug him at shortstop right now, which they need to do. Please give me you’re best Friar offer for Mr. Soto, if you have to take the homegrown Stephen Strasburg or Patrick Corbin back in the trade.
iH8PaperStraws
I want to sit right next to you on your right side so I can be the first to have what your smoking.
Javia135
@Captain Judge99
I don’t doubt for a second that you were one of the Yankees fans who used to suggest Frazier and Andujar for whatever star player you wanted. I mean, you tell a Mariners fan that he has to give up an almost certain ROY winner and superstar in the making for Soto, yet you think the Yankees can keep their top 2 prospects? Rodriguez has 2.5 times the Value of Volpe. Do the Yankees have 2.5 Volpes to offer? No. You only have 1 and every other prospect you have is worth far less. In fact according to BTV Volpe, Dominguez and Peraza together comes to half the value of Rodriguez ALONE. Yet you want to keep both Volpe and Dominguez? I mean according to BTV every single trade offer for Soto that you have made on this site is less than 1/3 the value of Soto. I DARE YOU to try to put together a trade proposal that BTV would accept without including Volpe or Dominguez. Have fun!
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- thanks for a good laugh tonight as always. I thought my trade offer was very fair for Soto and Corbin, but you never told me your trade to the Nationals for Juan Soto and the immortal hometown hero Stephen Strasburg. Can you finally give me your offer, boss? Just stop talking about Volpe. I’m starting to think you wanna take him out on a date? Hands off man, he’s property of the Yankees!
Javia135
I entered your trade ideas into BTV. They got you about 1/3 of the way there. I tried it with Padres players and it took Abrams, Gore, Hassell, Campusano and Wood. Then I tried it for the Yankees with Volpe, Dominguez, Pereira, Waldichuk, Cortes and German. Even including both Volpe and Dominguez doesn’t stop it from saying “Reality Check! You need to add at least 1 more high value player.” They are correct. You WAY overvalue Yankees prospects.
Captain Judge99
Starting to think @Javia135- is delusional to think Eric Hosmer, Luke Voit, and Will Myers will bring him Juan Soto? He’s way too cool to answer my question. He’s way too cool for anything. Lolololololol!!! Let’s go Pads!!!!
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- let me help you here! If you take on Stephen Strasburg’s contract with trading for Soto you don’t have to part with all those Friar prospects you dummy! Wake up already!
Javia135
@Captain Judge99
How dumb are you? Nobody mentioned trading Hosmer, Voit or Myers for Soto. Why are you making up BS? Are you just looking for attention? Obviously!
As to your question; Soto AND Corbin requires the Yankees to part with the package I just mentioned. Volpe, Dominguez, Pereira, Waldichuk, Cortes and German. Comes out quite even. Now, YOU try to do it without including Volpe. I’ll wait.
Javia135
For the Padres it would take Abrams, Hassell and Wood to get Soto and Corbin. Your turn!
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- Nah that’s way too much your giving up. Friar fans should count their lucky stars you ain’t AJ Preller!!!
Javia135
BTV agrees with me and thinks you are crazy. From what I have seen everyone on here outside of Yankees fans agree. You are just a troll looking for attention. I’m done giving it to you. Goodbye.
Captain Judge99
@Javia135- I think your punishment should be to have to take back Stephen Strasburg and Patrick Corbin with Juan Soto, and to give up all your top prospects to the Nationals. I wish your Friars my absolute best, in trading for Juan Soto, Stephen Strasburg and Patrick Corbin. Good luck man.
Captain Judge99
@burdellt- just smoking some hard facts of reality, man. You think the Mariners would trade Julio Rodriguez for Aaron Judge? Of course they would. If they knew they could sign him to an extension lst. If the Mariners want Soto, they should trade Rodriguez for him. I wouldn’t take back Corbin or Strasburg in the trade though.
marinermike
You are literally insane. Julio is untouchable. I wouldn’t trade him for literally anyone in the league in a 1-1 trade. Julio is going to be a Mariner for a very long time. Let someone else pay Soto whatever crazy number he will get to ruin their franchise.
Pads Fans
The Nationals are not ready to compete in 2023 or even 2024. They don’t need a headliner in the trade that will step in and give them All Star performance on the MLB roster yet. To suggest that they are even asking for that is ludicrous.
What they need and what they are likely asking for is many top prospects in multiple positions.
Considering the Dodgers took on Price to get 1 year of Betts, as opposed to 2.33 season (3 playoff runs) of Soto, and gave up two top 50 prospects (Verdugo 35 and Downs 40) plus Wong to get him, the cost of doing business for Soto is not going to plunge precipitously with Corbin in the mix. Its just going to narrow the field of teams that can afford to take on the $14 million in CBT money this season and $60 million next season.
The Nationals are going to ask for any interested teams top prospect, another prospect in the top 50, and third really prospect or recently graduated player.
For the Yankees that means Volpe, Dominguez, and Someone like Oswaldo Cabrera (based on proximity to the majors, tool ratings, and ranking in the organization) going to the Nationals IF Corbin is attached with about $20 million in cash coming along with Soto and Corbin.
For the Padres it means Abrams, Hassell and someone like Ruiz or Azocar (based on a combination of the same criteria as Cabrera)
The Padres would probably ask the Nationals to take on a short term deal like the balance of Myers contract (owed about $6 million for the rest of the season) in addition to the Nationals sending $20 million along with Soto and Corbin to help keep them under the CBT threshold this season.
None of that is my opinion. Those are the exact proposals I have read in other publications.
Here is MY crazy trade idea. (Dollars owed in millions in parentheses)
Soto(5.6), Corbin(67), and Bell(3.3) + $10 million to the Padres
Abrams, Hassell, Ruiz, Hosmer(45), and Myers(7.6) to the Nationals.
Bell and Myers are free agents at the end of the year. Hosmer is owed the balance of his $20 million salary in 2022 and then $13 million per year for 2023-2025. Corbin is owed the balance of his $23 million salary for 2022 and then $59 million for 2023-2024.
While the Padres take on more in total dollars, both teams end up having the same amount of money applied to the 2022 CBT calculations.
Pads Fans
Soto won’t ruin any franchise and the Mariners are likely still in on trading for him.
The one guy they will not trade is Jrod. He is a central part of their MLB squad, not a prospect.
If Corbin is in the deal then Kelenic and Marte would be the center pieces coming from the Mariners, plus another mid-level prospect that is close to the majors.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
@Judge99, there is no way any GM is stupid enough to make more than a sarcastic ask for Julio, here’s how the call would go…
The phone rings, Jerry picks up, “Hey Dipoto, how’s the family? Have a good All-Star break? Excellent. So I had a thought, you wouldn’t mind doing Julio for Soto straight up, would ya Jerry? Ha Ha Ha (awkward laughter fades). “Just kidding, I had to try. Now seriously, I’m going to need a job next year when they fire me as a scapegoat under the new owners. You think you have space for a special assistant, while I rebuild my credibility after the fallout, I might be able to prioritize your offer to the owners in a, shall we say, better light? Just a thought, so anyways, while I have you on the phone, do you have any interest in Soto? What might you be offering??”
Jerry replies calmly, “what do you want for him and just know my next calls are to Miami about Chisholm and the D-backs for Marte, which I could get for a lot less and fill a bigger hole on the team. Plus, who else can eat your albatross deal with Corbin and not ask you to send cash?”
Rizzo takes a deep breath, sighs and then says, “You take Corbin and Soto with all that they are owed, you send back Marte, Kelenic, Kirby, and Brash. What do you think?”
Jerry, chuckles, sips his Sprite zero with a splash of Seagram’s 7 and three baseball shaped ice cubes, then pauses, leans back in his chair, and says, “I really like Kelenic, I’ve made no effort to hide that and I won’t sell low on him, so if I’m sending you Jarred, you only get Marte and Brash, plus I need George down the stretch to help us compete and he’ll be almost 30 by the time you guys get to your next world series with what it’ll take to rebuild, trust me, I know! Keeping that in mind, I’ll substitute Hancock, he’s younger, has a good pedigree, you saw him in the Futures Game? Amazing stuff, clean bill of health, his star is on the rise again, but not fast enough for us this year, he’s also a year or two younger than Kirby. What I will do is include Gabriel Gonzalez, that kid can rake. In a few years he’ll be a cornerstone for your franchise. Should I send over the paperwork?”
Rizzo leans into his desk, rubs his furrowed brow, and then passes his hand over the whole of his face, realizing in that moment that his stubble looks more like 6:30 than five o’clock shadow. He squints with one eye in an attempt to make his face more taut as he scratches at the hair on his jaw bone while he searches for the next words carefully. He knows it’s not far off from fair and at this point he just wants a shower and a shave, he’d been on the phone for over 24 hours fielding offers for their All-Star RF, supposedly the next Ted Williams.
Rizzo clears his throat and begins slow and soft, almost like he’s channeling his best John Wayne impersonation, “tell you what Jerry, I’ll send you the paperwork, if you’ll give me Marte, Brash, Hancock, Gonzalez, Dollard, Ford, and Alberto Rodriguez for Soto and Corbin!”
Jerry smiles, straightens his face, and in a dismissive almost uninterested response, he says, “okay, I guess that could work, but you have to throw in Arano, cause I need an arm for my bullpen since you’re taken Brash!”
Rizzo, nods stoically, takes a deep breath, and lightly says, “alright I’ll tell the commissioners office and get you the paperwork this afternoon, if there’s nothing else…”
Dipoto interrupts, and then says, “for now on you have to call me JeDi, ha ha ha, but seriously don’t forget! Talk with you later, Mikie!”
Rizzo responds with an irritated, slight high pitched voice, “it’s Mike, not Mikie!”
Jerry laughs and hangs up.
Papabueno
Does Kelenic really have that kind of value? All he has done (in almost 500 PA in the bigs) is prove he can’t hit major league pitching. The Nats already have that with Victor Robles.
Captain Judge99
@Pads Fans- no Julio then no Soto for the Mariners. If Juan is traded the only 2 teams he would sign an extension with are the Dodgers or the Yankees. If not, definitely expect him to hit free agency. We’ll see where he goes. Taking on the contract of Strasburg or Corbin definitely looks like a deal breaker for the Yankees. I would definitely pass to. Luis Castillo is probably the best way to go for a team that needs starting pitching.
iH8PaperStraws
The Mariners wouldn’t trade Julio Rodriguez in a one for one with anyone. You’re absolutely delusional.
Deleted Userrr
@Pads Fans Rizzo blocks Preller’s number if he offers that. And he’d be stupid not to ask for Julio from the Mariners.
Deleted Userrr
By the way, what happened to “The Padres need to keep Myers because they don’t have a better replacement in-house?”
outinleftfield
PadsFans must be Heyman’s burner account, because he proposed pretty much the exact same trades on MLB Network.
Deleted Userr
He’s your burner account lol
coocoo20
And then trade him to who in 2 years
Captain Judge99
@coocoo20- the Nats would be taking a lot less back if they wait 2 years to trade Soto. His trade value could be at his highest now, not later. Look at the Mookie Betts situation. Boston was almost forced to not get as much trading him right before his free agency. They waited too long.
Captain Judge99
@SodoMojo90- if Seattle ain’t offering Julio Rodriguez, they’re definitely not getting Juan Soto. Besides the Mariners are going to take back the contract of Stephen Strasburg or Patrick Corbin in the trade? Not happening.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Nobody trades 5+ years of Julio for 2+ years of Soto. Never! Soto is a DH pretending to play defense and if he wasn’t prime Pujols with the bat, Soto would be going to the Winter Meetings in Dec. of 2024 looking for someone to give him a minor league deal. Make no mistake, everyone is all for his bat, but he’s slow, he plays average defense at best, has no positional flexibility and may have to be a DH or 1B by 30-years-old. The Mariners are not trading their ROY A-S centerfielder who already has a 19% chance of making the HOF based on the start of his career! That’s crazy. Soto is a generational hitter, but Julio has the chance to change the way the game is played!
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Soto is going to be traded before the deadline. His value is at the highest it’s going to be, and the acquiring team will want him onboard for this post-season and the following two. You may consider giving up the farm for 3 shots at a world title, maybe not so much for 2.
Cubensis of Saturn
You’re right about his value being highest right now. It’s not like the Nats will be competing anytime soon either. Including Corbin also cuts down on the amount of prospects they need to scout. Makes the most sense to pull the trigger as soon as they get the offer they like.
JimmyForum
He’s not that much of a difference maker and will not be worth the cost of talent, let alone the financial investment. Hard pass I’d take Corbin though straight up. A good pitching lab will fix him in no time
Angels & NL West
Predicting where Soto will land is fun, but really difficult. Did anyone think the Rangers, Twins and Rockies would sign Seager, Semien, Correa and Bryant?
JimmyForum
I went 4/4 on those free agents. It’s not hard with some well placed sources and astute knowledge of the market.
Angels & NL West
Kudos, Jimmy. Where is Soto headed?
JimmyForum
the LIV golf league.
Cubensis of Saturn
Hey Jimmy, do you pick stocks and lotto numbers? I could use some help
cubsmetsbrewers
You’re lying Jimmy get a life
cubsmetsbrewers
I’m sure maybe someone did
Central Valley
Evan Longoria’s contract is also coming off the books at the end of the year I believe.
mattwild1
correct. assuming they don’t exercise his option, which is a given at this point
Ann Porkins
Not necessarily a given. The option is for $13M, which is a bit steep despite how productive he’s been when healthy the last few years.
But, the buyout is a hefty$5M, so it’s essentially an $8M decision. A competitive team getting a productive quasi-regular infielder for one year and $8M isn’t too ridiculous.
I still believe they’ll buy him out, but if he’s finishes the year healthy and productive it’s not quite a given.
Central Valley
Who currently has more value, Juan Soto, or Shohei Ohtani?
Serious question, as I don’t know.
cubsmetsbrewers
Danny Seth
YourDreamGM
Soto. Additional year of control.
luclusciano
Ohtani –
mattwild1
Soto. more control and much younger
bucsfan0004
Ohtani has infinitely more value to a team. Who would you rather have for the next 5 years? A dynamic pitcher that hits HRs or an outfielder that has a bloated OPS because he walks a lot? I’ll take the guy that you can market and sell more tickets… Ohtani by a mile.
BeforeMcCourt
You’re not getting 5 years of Ohtani…
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Okay, let’s cover a couple things. Ohtani can impact the game in twice as many ways as Soto, but he’s 5 years older, he’s twice as vulnerable to injury (see: his career), there’s no discount for getting a guy who pitches and hits. He’ll make like $40-45M a year, most of those years will be in his 30s and if his velocity drops like Felix Hernandez in the next couple years, you’ll basically be paying $40-45M/year for a backend starter and a left-handed Mitch Haniger. There are so many error warnings attached to Shohei Ohtani, I can’t even cover them all.
The biggest thing I tell everyone is, being a two-way player is great for a team during a player’s control years, but it actually can derail a team completely once he’s earning market rate on an extension or free agent deal. The reason is payroll flexibility. If Ohtani gets injured, you can replace him with say Josh Bell and Carlos Rodon through trades (if the Angels prospects didn’t suck), you’d be paying about $4-5M for Bell and $8M or so for Rodon. You would be getting approximately the same production and between Ohtani’s current contract and paying those guys to replace him in the event of an injury, you’re out about $20M to cover your #1 SP and your DH.
Now pretend this is 2024 with the same cast of characters doing what they are for production this year. You’re again adding $12-13M in salary to cover for Ohtani, but now you are also paying $40-45M for him to be injured, so you are actually paying $35M for your #1 starter and $20-25M for your DH. Or you could’ve just signed Rodon and Bell for $22.5M and $11M each and not had the headache of fixing both your pitching staff and lineup with one injury.
As for your comment about OBP and Soto.
1) Runs scored has the strongest correlation with winning a game.
2) OBP has the strongest correlation with scoring runs
3) Deductive reasoning says OBP has the strongest correlation with winning
4) OBP/K rate has the strongest correlation with how a hitter ages
Final Thought: Soto’s bat will age amazingly, even if he becomes a DH, expect .900+ OPS for as long he plays, maybe even into his early 40s (see: Ortiz, David & Martinez, Edgar) The cost could be hard to stomach, but 15 years of Jersey sales, WS titles, Honorary Days for retiring his number, commemorating his enshrinement into a team HOF and the MLB HOF, plus ticket sales from 15 years of people wanting to see him hit and you can justify a lot of that salary, even if part of that time is spent at DH or maybe a move to 1B. The only thing that can slow him down is injury (they have insurance for that) and lack of focus/discipline (you don’t make it to the majors at 19 and win a WS at 20/21 y.o. by being complacent). If I was going to bet on a long term deal for someone today, it would be Julio and Soto.
By getting the extensions done now, they get a lot of prime years from those guys and even a team like Seattle has plenty of money to cover $35M for Soto ($450M/13 years) and $25M for Julio ($350M/14 years) over the next decade and a half. For anyone wondering why Julio eats a much lower contract, it’s because he makes $700K for two more years and maybe $10-15M in his first pass through arb, $20-25M in his second pass, and then he’d be at full value his last year and his tact on free agent seasons in the deal. If you figure $40M for years 2-5 (4 seasons), that leaves $310M for the last 10 years, by signing it now, Seattle can front load is arb years a little more and lower the AVG $$/year to help pay both players. $60M won’t probably seem like much for two stars in their early 30s, ten years from now. By then payroll will probably have a $275-300M cap.
outinleftfield
Value in trade or value on the field. In trade, Soto. One more year of control. Short term on the field, Ohtani and its not close. He is a great hitter and a great pitcher. Long term on the field, Soto because he is 4 + years younger.
cubsmetsbrewers
I’d looooove to see him in STL where would he play? Might ask cosmo
Samuel
Lets put things in perspective….
At the end of the 2018 season Bryce Harper and Manny Machado became free agents. We were breathlessly told here that never had 2 young players that had already accomplished so much been made available. They were “Superstars”.
In 3 years of play they’ve done quite well. All-Stars. Manny won a Silver Slugger Award. Bryce won the NL MVP one year.
Their teams in the 3 years so far? The Padres got into the playoffs one year – won the 1st round, out in the 2nd. The Phillies have yet to get to the playoffs.
–
After the 2021 season we were told that the FA SS class was historic. So far in 2022…
o Carlos Correa has been an impact player with the Twins. He’s had a solid year and is more responsible than any other player for them being in 1st place in the AL Central – unfortunately the weakest division in MLB (not his doing). He’s also missed 25% of the Twins games due to injuries.
o With the Rangers Corey Seager has been very good, not great; Marcus Semien has been above average. At the All-Star break the Rangers are 8 games under .500, and 7.5 games out of the last WC spot.
o Trevor Story is not even playing SS for the Red Sox. He’s not been particularly good playing 2B. He had a terrific hitting streak for maybe a month. The Red Sox have been disappointing.
o Javier Báez has been awful as has his Tigers team.
–
The point is this:
In Baseball a batter hits for his team once every 9 times. A starting pitcher performs one every 5 or so days, and pitching 7 innings is considered very good.
NO ONE OR TWO PLAYERS ARE GOING TO CARRY A TEAM – no matter how good they are.
–
Now we’re in the middle of Juan Soto hysteria. He’s had a start to his career that rivals the best players in history. OK. But that doesn’t mean that he’s going to carry a team. Better than anyone else, the Rays FO understands this. The only reason to pay a player 20-30-35% of a teams payroll when he’s influencing maybe 10% of their games is to sell entertainment. The Angels do this with both Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani, and they easily generate additional revenue to pay their salary. But their team has yet to make the playoffs with either one.
So if we want to talk entertainment, additional revenue generation, and go ga ga over how much individual players will be paid, that’s one thing. If we want to talk about a team getting to the playoffs and possibly the World Series, that’s another.
luclusciano
Agree with all of the above, but I imagine if you add him to a team that is already doing well, he could be the difference maker between losing a series in post season and winning the Series. If you send him to a team that is under .500, Mayne he makes a difference, but it is the compliment of other great players that make this so interesting. Nothing is guaranteed, but if the Mets get him, that makes a great outfield and lineup better, if the Yankees get him, imagine a Judge, Stanton, Soto outfield, etc etc. one player can be a difference maker, but you need the other pieces in place.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Go watch the two games between the Mariners and the Nationals, when they had the double-header and tell me he’s not a difference maker on a contender. Literally the Nationals are the MLB version of benchwarmers, they have 1 pitcher maybe two in Gray and 35 year old Espino, they have Soto and Bell. They are literally playing with a AAA team right now and still on course to win 50 games. Thanks to Soto.
My point is Soto hit a 9th inning jack against the Mariners in both sides of the double-header and made each game a lot closer. Because of his two homeruns 4 total runs crossed the plate in two games. To put the shoe on the other foot, had the Nationals had Julio in CF instead of Robles, I bet the Mariners lose one of those two games. So taking that same logic, how many games could you replace Abraham Toro* with Juan Soto and the Mariners win because of his aggregated statistics being spread across the games played. How many rallies would have not been halted.
Just to clarify, the Mariners have left more baserunners and had the bases loaded more times than any team in baseball. I’d bet that Soto would have resulted in 60-80 more runs just by replacing Toro’s numbers and then figuring in all the times he would have come up with a hit or a walk that continued an inning or drove in a run that ended with Toro getting out. Don’t get me wrong, I think Toro will eventually be a very solid regular, he has all the signs of it, but this year the Mariners need more production, it would also help them protect Lewis and/or Haniger from injury playing Soto in RF and letting those two DH consistently or rotate with Winker.
* = (most plate appearances by a sub 100 OPS + hitter, has been a default DH or 10th man used to rest other players who get to DH once a week like Suarez and Winker, Toro plays 2B and Frazier or Moore go to LF)
Central Valley
The Giants could fix Corbin.
cubsmetsbrewers
Texas rangers should get Corbin. I saw some meeksie say they needed pitching
Balk
How bout Giants get Soto, and we’ll trade Corbin to (Texas) at cost? Ha!
cubsmetsbrewers
They aint gon flip him like that
Neon Cop
Was just gonna say this — bravo, sir.
Samuel
Many teams can. The Nationals absolutely ruin pitchers. I can’t think of one they’ve developed that pitched decently for more than a year or so (Max was his own coach).
The Orioles picked up Austin Voth on waivers in early June. They’ve made more progress with him in 2 months than the Nationals did in 4-1/2 years.
Corbin will not be worth the salary a team has to pay. But he can be a decent #3-4 pitcher if he gets with an organization that works well with pitchers….and who knows?
bryan c
Soto seems to make so much more sense for the teams that will not be bidders in the open market. Could Soto put one of the big money teams over the top? Sure. But let’s not forget an Eddie Rosario hot streak was the big key to last year’s Braves chip. No one can save face and say Atlanta was more talented than LA or Houston last year but they pulled it off with crafty moves and rode a couple hot streaks. While all the big market clubs have the talent to make this trade, they are all also very much in the race this year and the next few. If the Nats force a best offer scenario now, we may all end very surprised by how little it actually took.
If I were the Nats I would rather hear from Baltimore or Seattle than NY (either) or LA.
cubsmetsbrewers
Sign Jackson Holliday trade him for Soto bahahahhaha cosmo would like that
luclusciano
Just want to point out – it was Rosario who was picked up kid-season with Pederson and others that made the difference. You can’t script things, but it is the reason the better teams make mid season trades, to give a push. The teams doing well will part with the talent, more so than a team rebuilding.
bryan c
yes, that’s what I meant. Rosario and Joc and Soler and BP arms – not a Soto like get – made that championship. Awesome run. My point is adding Soto will not definitively result in anything.
kodiak920
MASN probably makes Baltimore the last team they trade Soto to.
bryan c
agreed. Just pointing out that the top market teams likely have a much tighter and finite offer than a middling team on the rise.
goastros123
It will be interesting to see who ponys up for him in terms of giving away the farm.
madmanTX
Let the Padres trade for him. I hope the Rangers stay out of it and keep their talent.
bryan c
Machado + Tatis + Soto arb salary will be $100m alone in 2024. But they sure could do it. Certainly have the trade pieces but if they don’t win within the three years they are in a bad spot
Pads Fans
Machado and Tatis are under contract, not arbitration. Machado will make $30 million in 2023 and 2024. Tatis will make $7 million in 2023 and $11 million in 2024.
Soto, who is eligible for arbitration the next two seasons, will earn about $25 million in 2023 and about $30 million in 2024.
So $62 million for all three in 2023 and $71 million in $2024.
Soto is a FA after the 2024 season and if the Padres don’t win in 2022 or 2023 then they could get a big chunk of what they gave up back prior to the 2024 season.
Can you imagine having to face a lineup with Tatis, Machado, and Soto in the middle of it?
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Without imaginations, we never would see it because it won’t happen.
The Padres farm system is too thin and the Nationals aren’t going to want Grisham or an older Cronenworth to backfill the value. Plus there is too many salary issues to consider for the Padres to workout $60M over the next two years, let alone the fact that Tatis looks much more capable of helping the team in RF than at SS. Abrams will grow into a good MLB SS and adding Soto for a marginal return on value seems like stunted thinking. Tatis does amazing things and amazingly stupid things when playing SS and his defensive value in RF with Abrams at SS is probably a 1-2 win improvement, so you have to subtract that from the total value Soto brings to the team,
This deal also blocks the Padres from improving CF and catcher which are their two biggest weaknesses. If I was the Padres, I would target Willson Contreras and Ian Happ for a playoff run over Soto. It’s not as sexy, but it’s more practical and more affordable, They could probably even get Wisdom and Robertson back in the deal and send Hosmer and Cronenworth in an even exchange. The Cubs would have 3/4 of their infield set for 2023 including Nico Hoerner as a SS, unless they want to target Swanson or Turner. Meanwhile, Contreras and Happ can cover pretty much every position on the diamond besides pitcher and are probably willing to re-sign with the Padres long-term if offered.
Deleted Userrr
No one is trading for Soto to flip him. You aren’t getting nearly as much for him when he only has one year of control left.
outinleftfield
As dozens of writers and baseball commentators have already said, The Padres have the prospects to get a deal done with or without Corbin being part of it. That part is the easy part. A quick look at Cots Baseball Contracts shows that the Padres have a minimum of $71 million coming off the books for the 2023 season, more if Martinez or Profar opts out and they non-tender Lamet, Johnson, and Adams as expected. That includes Wil Myers’ option not being exercised and Hosmer’s salary dropping to $13 million. They have the money. Nothing blocks the Padres from improving CF. In fact, the best possible option is already in house, Tatis. Contreras and Happ are a marginal improvement over Alfaro and Cronenworth and cost $14 million more. That is a huge no. Soto is an 82% improvement in OPS+ over all Padres OF not named Profar and he is a 45% better hitter than Profar. So I am assuming you are a Cubs fan, because you made a trade proposal that only benefits the Cubs.
Captain Judge99
@madmanTX- the Padres are delusional just like their fans, like Javia135. Their not getting Juan Soto. If they do somehow he’ll be traded there, and leave in a few years as a free agent. No worries.
outinleftfield
In case you haven’t noticed, a team trading for him to get him for 3 playoff appearances is what all the discussions are about. If you think that any team is trading for him ONLY if he will sign an extension you are delusional.
Hubert
Liberatore, Carlson and Burleson (.936 OPS at Triple-A) for Soto and Corbin?
cubsmetsbrewers
Hubert no! That is not enough to get Soto you egg head
bighiggy
I don’t think the cards would trade gorman, Wynn and walker. I could see walker, Wynn, libertore and carlson or oneill. One outfielder would gave to go. But no way they trade their top 2 3b prospects with even a chance arenado can opt out. Probably either or walker or gorman and then another 3 top prospects
Inside Out
Nationals would laugh and do a spit take. Cardinals minimum would be Gorman, walker, and Wynn.
CujoMarlin
I think you have to start with Carlson and Walker, then add some additinal significant pieces, but who knows for sure. It really depends on the market. Most of these stars get traded for less than us fans think. His arb numbers and what he wants for an extension have already narrowed the options, that’s good for the buyer, not the seller. If they want to attach Corbin, even better for the buyer. Nice coincidence that Goldschmidt’s contract ends about when Soto’s up for an extension. Cardinals won’t get back to being a favorite to win unless they add another big lineup piece.
iH8PaperStraws
The Cardinals won’t include Walker when they think he is a better player than Soto. They think Walker is the next Albert Pujols. And if they need to take on Corbin, I think it makes the Cardinals the front runner. The Cardinals desperately need pitching and think they can fix anyone. They did it just last year when the traded the Nats for Jon Lester. They’ll require $15 or so of money back to offset the last year of Corbin’s contract though. This isn’t MLB the show, it doesn’t take the prospect/player capital written about to trade these days. O’Neil, Liberatore, McGreevy/Thompson, Burleson and Herrara should get it done. Who ever they prefer between Ruiz and Herrera they can flip for more pieces. The Cardinals would just keep Kizner longer. If I were the Cardinals I’d try and force Flarety in the deal, but the Nats probably have zero interest in him.
Balk
If they attached Corbin to a trade, myself as a fan of the Giants, hope we wouldn’t have to sell the farm to get him. If it’s Soto alone, I wouldn’t do it!
junior25
I can see Soto going to Giants
They have the Prospects and Payroll room
Balk
Not saying Judge is leaving the Yanks, but who would you rather have, Soto or Judge? Judge is Free agent at end of year isn’t he?
goastros123
Soto, but the cost to get him is quite high: prospects to get him in a trade, and extending him would take a lot of money so it may not be worth it for the Yankees.
YourDreamGM
Neither. I love prospects and good value. Unless it gets me tv or attendance money I would have no interest is paying someone 30 40 million a year. Especially a dh or 30 something outfielder. Yes Judge free agent after this season.
Soto if I had to choose. Maybe you can find some prospects the Nats are higher on than you. Make 2 post season runs and trade him for prospects you like better than you gave up. Or 3 runs and maybe the comp pick is still a thing. Even signing him you get a good amount of age 20 and early 30 years.
cubsmetsbrewers
I would choose Soto due to age differences
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
That’s tough honestly
JoeBrady
Balk
but who would you rather have, Soto or Judge?
==========================================
I mentioned this yesterday. It all speculation, but if I had a choice between Judge at $245M/7, or Soto at $490M/14, I would take the Judge contract, even without considering the prospect cost. All the folks that want to trade their top-3 three prospects, are missing the point that Soto will also cost you close to $40M per.
If you want any player for $40M, then you better have some cheap prospects to be able to build around him.
iH8PaperStraws
Soto won’t get $400m unless he resigns with the Nats. Everyone was willing to bet their first born that Harper and Machado were going to get $400m+ and they didn’t get anywhere close. Betts @$365 is the closest we’ve scene. I think he has two more contracts in him barring any opt outs. And he should want that. Sign a 7 or 8 year deal and hit the open market again at 30/31 and get another 5 year deal at the market future market rate.
jessaumodesto
Hearing rumblings that Oakland will trade their top 5 prospects for him and the turn around and trade him to the Yankees for 2-3
Prospects outside of their top 30
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Yeah if the Nationals wanted to field a team with all catchers. Their top prospects./young players with value are Sean Murphy, a catcher, Shae Langeliers, a catcher, and Tyler Soderstrom, a catcher to go with one young cornerstone play who is Keibert Ruiz, a catcher. Only to have the Athletics trade for better prospects? How does that make sense for the Athletics unless they are getting more than they spend, and if the Athletics are working an angle, why would the Nationals not just cutout the middleman. Add Oakland to the list of teams that can’t/won’t/shouldn’t,
AL East (Red Sox, Blue Jays, & Yankees can’t afford to eat Soto and Corbin’s deal)
AL East 2 (Tampa can’t afford him or to burn the prospect value and not extend)
AL East 3 (Orioles TV deal issues with MASN make this impossible to hurdle)
AL Central (Royals, Guardians, and Tigers lack money or trade pieces)
AL Central2 (White Sox and Twins would do more damage trying to acquire him)
AL West (Rangers and Angels can’t afford him with their payroll situations)
AL West2 (Houston doesn’t have the prospects needed to make a deal)
AL West 3 (Oakland has only catchers to trade, no money to pay or extend Soto)
So far the only team with trade capital, payroll space, and can fully exact his true value by replacing someone in their everyday lineup is Seattle, every other AL team has too many hurdles to overcome, sure the Yankees could afford to sign him, but the penalties for blowing up the cap would have serious effects on their long term stability, which is why those road blocks are there)
In the National League….
NL East (Marlins, Braves, Phillies, Mets are all non-starters)
NL Central (Pirates are the lone dark horse hear that has the trade capital and could afford the contract and would have interest)
NL Central2 (Reds lack the talent, the need, and the money)
NL Central3 (Cubs are like the Reds, except they have money, still not a fit)
NL Central4 (Cardinals lack the money and need)
NL Central5 (Brewers lack the money and talent)
NL West1 (would gut the farm system, they’d blow the cap, incur penalties)
NL West2 (Diamondbacks could afford him and have the prospect strength)
NL West3 (Giants lack prospects and they need them to address the roster age)
NL West4 (Padres lack money, prospects, but does he fix their roster needs)
NL West5 (Rockies are lacking everything, total non-starter)
Based on my evaluations, the teams that could surprise everyone and make a run at Soto are the Diamondbacks, the Padres, the Mariners with an outside chance that the Cardinals, Padres, and Dodgers do something, but I really don’t see that as likely. The best fit is the Mariners unless the Pirates can sign Soto long-term and then the buckets of prospects the Pirates have would make Pittsburgh an interesting destination. Same goes for Arizona. If a deal gets made by Aug. 2nd, I’d bet 85% that it’s with the Mariners. If it goes into the offseason, some of these other teams may move some pieces to become a better fit, but it would still be a group of Seattle, Pittsburgh, and Arizona as my favorites.
The thing people forget about Boras is he’s playing chess not checkers and he realizes he can’t just pin every big deal in NY or CA, so he always tries to find those rare one-off deals for his clients with teams that normally wouldn’t be a good fit for most of his clients. Soto in LA blocks a lot of future deals for Boras, but Soto in Seattle leaves L.A. open for other free agents in the future who Seattle might not bid on. That’s why he convinced Seager and Semien to sign with a team that will never make the playoffs in their prime years, if at all. He did the same thing with Kris Bryant, by dumping him on an island or a mountain in this case, being Colorado of course. Do you think Colorado has a chance at signing Soto long-term? You think Soto would ever sign with a team like the Rangers? Boras is good at what he does, he got the dumb Rangers to overpay for two marginal talents one who has injury issues, the other one who is just old and got paid based on his career year while headed towards his mid-30s.
If the Mariners don’t spend on Soto, who would Boras get them to pull the trigger on a 9-figure deal ($100,000,000+ total value) in the next few years? A great example of this is how the Mariners were interested from all accounts on trying to get Baez to play 2B, but Wasserman represents Baez and Crawford, so as to make the Mariners more desperate to workout a long-term deal with J.P., he convinced Baez to go to Detroit which guarantees his contract will wrap around the time they are competitive. Meanwhile, J.P. got his long-term deal with the Mariners also, making it a win-win for Wasserman. Boras did the same thing with Kikuchi, first getting him to sign with Seattle and then with Toronto. I would bet these agents control where the players goes more than 50% of the time.
lee cousins
You are the most long winded person I’ve ever seen.
Central Valley
Would the Giants be willing to send Logan Webb to the Nationals? Should they?
Shrutefarm
As a Dodger fan, I hope the Giants do. : )
YourDreamGM
They should if it is straight up. Soto is more valuable. I wouldn’t give them 2 or 3 elite prospects with him. Get a rental corner outfielder or dh for a fraction of the cost.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
No they would not be willing, and no they shouldn’t.
scottn59c
Webb is the only untouchable Giant because he’s an ace and young enough to build around. If SF goes for Soto, it’s a win-now move, and they’re not winning without Webb; the rotation is decent, but full of vets with injury histories. There’s not a lot of depth there.
Soto would make a lot more sense for the Giants if they were higher in the standings. The only way they do it is if the prospect cost is blunted by absorbing Corbin’s contract.
Simm
Corbins deal is so bad, when you add him and Soto’s money together I’m not sure I’d trade hardly anything for them. Certainly not a bunch of high end prospects.
If the Nats tried to trade Corbin alone it would take 3-4 elite prospects to do so. If Soto is worth say 4 elite prospects plus others then you -3 or so and you wind up getting 1 or 2 elite prospects back in that trade plus some flyers. Anything else is a pretty big over pay. Organizations are very smart now days and I just don’t see that happening.
The most likely outcomes if Corbin is in the deal is the Nats eat a sizable chunk of his contract to include him keeping the prospects in return still fairly high.
Perhaps a team like the padres try to offset some of corbins money by including hosmer and myers. Myers will be a free agent next year and hosmers deal drops to 3×13 starting next year. This would keep the padres under the tax this year so they could reset. Even with that over the next 3 years they would still be eating a ton of money owed to Corbin. In cash -11m and -22m the next two years from the – hosmer vs the Corbin contract. Or they don’t include either and the Nats eat say 50% of corbins deal. Which the next 2 season is 12 and 18, total of 30m. Even those numbers Corbin would still have negative value in the trade.
It will be interesting to see how teams value soto/Corbin. This would certainly give an advantage to teams with lots of money available.
You are not going to see a deal like abrams, gore, Hassell, plus plus plus for soto/corbins with no money exchanging hands.
scottn59c
Right. I think the whole point of unloading Corbin is that it results in a lesser prospect haul. That’s enticing to some teams who have more money to burn than prospect capital (like the Giants, for instance). But the article clearly mentioned that absorbing Corbin is only a possibility and not a necessity.
As much as teams would love to have Soto for the big race, I don’t think any team is going to completely gut the farm AND take on a massively negative valued contract in a Soto deal.
CrikesAlready
If the Nationals want an overpayment on the deal, the Padres AJ Preller intends to impress!
He especially loves hobbled players that he can sign for ginormous player-friendly extensions.
Bigtimeyankeefan
I wouldn’t take Corbin unless coaches see what he is doing wrong. He’s only had about 2 1/2 good years in his career . He’s not that good
cubsmetsbrewers
He’s had about 4 pitching at an all-star level
Simm
The last 3 years he has been awful. He makes hosmers contract look like steal the next 3 years. We all know what a good laugh everyone on here has had everytime his name comes up.
Soto/Corbin combined no money exchange is nearly even for nothing in return.
My guess is big money comes from the Nats in this type of deal.
CenterWingPolitics
The Mariners and Giants are the places I think would be best for baseball. SFG gets a legitimate star they haven’t had since Posey retired. Or the Mariners who also are lacking a legitimate star (although J-Rod has now emerged)
I lean more to Mariners due to prospect capital and playing in a weaker division gives them a bit more incentive I’d think
skrockij89
Seattle should look to take on both Corbin and Strasburg if it lessens the blow of prospects. They have money to work with.
cubsmetsbrewers
How about Kansas City?
dshires4
No we don’t want to take on Kansas City too.
Captain Judge99
@skrockij89- you can take those pitchers back no problem, but you still have to give up Julio Rodriguez, sorry. lol
Captain Judge99
I’ll never know why so many non-Yankee fans troll on here? I guess they’re own teams are as boring as hell.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Naw dude; Everyone who posts on this site must have lives “boring as hell” or else they would be out living their lives instead of sh^t posting on this god-forsaken board. (It does beat Twitter though). Present company not excepted.
guynamedchris
Imagine thinking that an article titled “Latest on Juan Soto’s Market” is written only for Yankees fans.
Mrsuntan
Hey judge,Didnt you post non stop on the RAYS site last year? Mr pot calling mr kettle
Captain Judge99
@Mrsuntan- I love your name! Absolutely! The Rays still exist? Thanks for letting me know so I can troll again. Lol
Mrsuntan
You wont have time, you will be trolling the mets site when they sign 99
Captain Judge99
@Mrsuntan- you’re definitely a funny guy, with a great sense of humor with a cool name! If Judgie leaves though it will likely be for his hometown San Francisco Giants. My guess $45 million annually for 8 seasons. We’ll see. That’s why I want the Yankees to trade for Soto, just in case he really does leave. It’s definitely possible.
Mrsuntan
We will see, i will be looking for Captain Soto22 posts in the future
Poster formerly known as . . .
Forget Soto. The Yankees need pitching. I can’t even watch Domingo “Long Ball” German crap the bed again, as usual. They should’ve traded that bum a year ago.
goastros123
Yankees better do something.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Trading for Luis Castillo would do them a lot more good than yet another outfielder.
goastros123
It also doesn’t sacrifice their future: imagine the Yankees front office trading the farm for Soto, extends him to a big fat contract, and not only does Judge walk due to not being able to afford both, but now they got a lot of money tied up and thus, not really able to improve the team.
Captain Judge99
@Fink Ployed- you definitely make a good point. If it was up to me, and it definitely isn’t, I would consider trading Oswald Peraza in a package for Castillo. The Reds have said they wanted Volpe or Peraza for Mr. Castillo. I would definitely discuss the package mentioned above lst with the Nationals before making a trade with Cincinnati. Dominguez, Peraza, Schmidt, Waldichuk, Pereira, Hicks, and Gallo for Soto and Corbin. We then can leave Stephen Strasburg for his hometown Padres and @Javia135.
Bruin1012
The Yankees aren’t getting Soto without Volpe going end of story. They may still be outbid even with Volpe plus. What everyone fails to understand there are several teams in a much better position then the Yankees to get Soto. If you try to add Hicks and Gallo to offset then you have no chance.
Ann Porkins
If the Nats really want to ditch Corbin, this helps the Giants as much as anyone. Their farm is solid after Zaidi & co. replenishing the system in recent years, but not as deep as some of the competition.
But they’ve got so much financial flexibility and the ability to sustain a higher payroll. Plus, with Posey retired, Bumgarner in Arizona, Belt & Crawford in their twilight years… the Giants could use a star to build around — both in terms of roster construction and marketability.
The current Giants brand of “platoons and matchups” has helped the team win games, but it’s tougher for the fanbase to get attached to individual names with all that fluidity game-to-game. Trading and extending Soto would give them a player that fans can buy a jersey for a player who won’t be platooned and/or on another team in 3 years. It would also give them Juan Soto, who is good at baseball.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I’m not sure the Giants need a superstar to fill the seats. Winning baseball sells tickets. Last year, the Angels had Trout and the AL MVP on their team and they ranked 16th in average attendance with a losing team.
Ann Porkins
True, superstars alone don’t sell tickets and merch. But in their 23 years at Oracle Park, I’ve never seen a Giants team this competitive struggle to sell out games. Attendance tends to tick upward as the year goes on, and SF is about as Covid-sensitive a place in terms of filling out a stadium… those are variables that make it tougher to compare to prior seasons. But they’ve averaged about 30,000 fans a game despite being competitive and coming off a 107-win season.
Even in 2017-2019, when their World Series core was aging poorly and they were playing pretty bad baseball, they were getting nearly 40,000 per game. And in the post-Bonds/pre-World Series era (2008-2009) they averaged over 35,000 per game. Those years also happen to align with Tim Lincecum’s Cy Young awards, plus the debuts/rise of Matt Cain, Pablo Sandoval, and Buster Posey.
Again, Covid factors and late-season attendance spikes could alter this outlook, but all of this gels with my anecdotal experience as well. My friends and family just aren’t as connected to this team and struggle to name players beyond the Brandons Belt & Crawford. They had bonafide stars uninterrupted from Bonds to the core of Posey/Lincecum/Bumgarner/Pence/etc, so there was always a productive fan-favorite to root for even when they were fielding bad teams.
You can even see this lack of marketable stars in their recent bobble head giveaways; they used to have to juggle all sorts of popular players for their season’s bobble heads, but the last three have been a 2012 fan favorite, a rapper, and a role player with one-plus year on the team (Matt Cain, E-40, and LaMonte Wade Jr.). I love LaMonte Wade Jr., but the fact that he’s up there with the Brandons Logan Webb as the most “bobble head-able” player speaks to this roster’s very different makeup to the past three decades of Giants baseball.
Anyway, thank you for attending my TEDTalk on the Giants disappointing attendance and bobble head theory.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I think you did a good job with your TED Talk. Points taken.
Ann Porkins
Thank you kindly.
It’s not fair to compare most rosters with the spectacle of the Bonds era or the homegrown golden era of Giants baseball… belting home run records and winning several rings does wonders for attendance.
I’d imagine the Giants would be selling more tickets if they were sub-.500 but had Trout and Ohtani, but that’s personal conjecture more than anything else. But a star like Soto could be a foundational piece to rebuild some of that 2000-2019 Giants fervor.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Why Boone elected to punt a game against the Astros by giving the ball to Domingo eludes me. Both Taillon and Cortes were available and he goes with a loser who just came up from Triple-A.
goastros123
Home field advantage can be important. I’m not sure Boone is a world-series-caliber-manager.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Until further notice, neither is Baker.
goastros123
Agreed. Should’ve walked Judge.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I’m sure Cashman put his two cents in…can they trust Boone making such a unilateral decision?
Poster formerly known as . . .
You have to wonder.
brucenewton
Front office make those calls. Boone just does what he’s told.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I’ve got to say, too — the Yankees suck for not putting YES on any of the streaming services except the occasional game on Amazon Prime. Cable cutters are SOL thanks to the Yankees’ contracts with cable.
Pickle_Britches
Yankees won’t be able to sign judge and get soto. No way. I think giants will get him. Luciano, Harrison, and Villar should do it. Maybe Bart also.
Captain Judge99
@Pickle_Britches- It’s funny if Soto is traded to the Yankees,and signed to an extension I feel Judge will leave the Yankees and sign with his hometown San Francisco Giants for $45 million annually for 8 years. Then everyone is happy.
friarfootin
Time to get some chips on the table:
Trent Grisham
Eric Hosmer
Wil Meyers
Blake Snell
Reiss Knehr
Eguy Rosario
To the Nats for Soto and Strassy. Gives the Nats a more marketable product. Friars go all in. Seriously. Bartender! Round on me!
Poster formerly known as . . .
What in that trade package you suggest “gives the Nats a more marketable product,” particularly?
If that’s all-in, I’d hate to see the package that wasn’t.
Bruin1012
That’s a terrible offer and would be laughed off the table.
Holy Cow!
Cow chips!
OhioDodger
You are dreaming.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I’m not even a Nationals fan and I think I just threw up in my mouth a little based on your trade. “Hey Washington, can I have your shiny cool thing and you bag of crap for 5 bags crap and a dead skunk? No, okay, well thanks for listening. I figured it out when you said, “Bartender! Round on me!” Up until that point I thought you were high, but now I realize you were just drunk.
padreforlife
Typical Padre fan trade proposal
BleedzBlue
Proof you can’t get a hangover if you never stop drinking. What a SD pipe dream!
Javia135
Padre fans and their stupid Soto trade proposals! Think they can get other team’s treasure for their junk! Everyone knows that it will take a major offer like Frazier and Andujar to get Soto. Either that or a team’s 4th and 5th best prospect along with other assorted nobodies. Idiot!
SLL
I sure hope the Mariners don’t trade for him. He’s a great player (so far), but they’d have to give up too much. All it takes is an injury, and they’ve traded away the future for nothing. The rebuild has to start all over.
Papabueno
From a Nationals fan prospective, I hope they trade Soto and keep Corbin. The Nats are going to be bad for two more years anyway and still need SP to tale the ball ever five days. I’d rather maximize the prospect/package coming back for Soto only. JMMO
TheOpener
Trade juan soto for anything. Just get rid of the overrated S.O.B.
64' Yanks
It would be interesting to see Soto traded to Houston. No need for the playoffs in the AL if this happens.
17dizzy
The big market teams are finally starting to get in the Soto chase. St. Louis is most probably can’t come up with the players against these teams.
Plus—— The individual Cardinal players who have been mentioned as possible trade candidates could be used for an Ace pitcher instead of Corbin, and an impact hitter other than Soto, and could still make the Cardinals better for 2022.