The Giants have landed the star player they’d been seeking. San Francisco is reportedly in agreement with Carlos Correa on a 13-year, $350MM contract. The deal doesn’t contain any opt-out provisions but the Boras Corporation client will receive a full no-trade clause.
It’ll be the third team in as many years for Correa, who turned 28 in September. The longtime Astro hit free agency last winter. Generally regarded as the top player in that offseason’s class, he didn’t find the long-term megadeal he’d sought after declining a qualifying offer from Houston.
After the lockout, Correa pivoted to a shorter-term gamble on himself, inking a three-year guarantee with the Twins that paid him the largest per-year salary ($35.1MM) for a free agent position player in MLB history. That deal allowed Correa to opt out and retest the market this winter, and he was ineligible for another QO thanks to the CBA’s prohibition on a player receiving the offer multiple times in his career.
Correa’s 2022 campaign got off to a slower than expected start. He hit .243/.309/.324 in April, presumably dealing with some lingering effects of his late signing and cold early-season weather that took a toll on his power output. In the first week of May, Correa dealt with a scare when he was struck on the right hand on a check swing. Initial x-rays indicated he may have fractured his right middle finger, but follow-up testing revealed he suffered only a bruise. He still landed on the injured list but returned after a minimal stint. Aside from a brief stay on the COVID-19 list a few weeks later, Correa stayed healthy the rest of the way.
After returning from the finger bruise, Correa was one of the sport’s best players. He hit .299/.376/.488 in 487 plate appearances from mid-May onwards. Among 133 qualified hitters over that stretch, he ranked 14th in on-base percentage and 23rd in slugging. That excellent finish brought his season line up to .291/.366/.467 in 136 games. Correa’s overall offensive productivity was 40 percentage points above league average, by measure of wRC+. That’s right in line with the levels he’d established late in his time in Houston. Correa stumbled in the abbreviated 2020 campaign but had respective wRC+ tallies 42 and 33 points above average in 2019 and ’21.
Over the past four seasons, the former first overall pick has tallied just under 1800 plate appearances. He’s hit .281/.359/.481 with a strong 10.6% walk rate and a lower than average 20.4% strikeout percentage. Correa has posted a hard contact rate north of 42% in each of the past four seasons, well above the 35-36% league marks. Broadly speaking, there’s nothing to nitpick with his offensive ability. He makes contact, has strong plate discipline and has topped 20 home runs in six of the seven 162-game seasons of his career. Correa has unsurprisingly been better against left-handers than righties, but he’s been excellent against pitchers of either handedness. He owns a .291/.386/.482 career mark against southpaws, while he’s hit .274/.346/.477 against same-handed arms.
Correa had some injury issues earlier in his career, missing time in 2018 with back discomfort and fracturing a rib in 2019. He’s only twice topped 600 plate appearances in a season, but the aforementioned finger contusion is the only non-virus ailment that has sent him to the IL within the past three seasons. With his recent health and the strong finish to his 2022 campaign, his camp made the easy call to opt out of the final two years and $70.2MM on his Twins deal.
For the second straight winter, he was the top free agent option in a loaded shortstop class. Even with Trea Turner, Xander Bogaerts and Dansby Swanson hitting the open market, Correa was the best available shortstop. Aaron Judge was the market’s top free agent overall on the heels of an MVP-winning, 62-homer season, but one can argue Correa was the best long-term bet available.
In addition to his strong offensive track record, the two-time All-Star is typically one of the sport’s most valuable defenders. Defensive Runs Saved has pegged him as an above-average shortstop in every season of his career. Altogether, DRS has pegged him as 70 runs better than par in more than 7600 innings. Statcast hasn’t been as bullish, but it also generally rates him as a plus gloveman. Statcast has pegged Correa as 17 runs above average since it began tracking defense in 2016, including plus grades each year from 2018-21.
Correa’s defense marks were particularly excellent during his final season in Houston, when he rated as +20 runs by DRS and +9 runs at Statcast. He secured his first career Gold Glove award in the process. This year’s reviews weren’t so impressive. DRS still considered him a net positive at three runs above average, but that was the lowest mark of his career. Statcast pegged him two runs below par, his first below-average showing by that metric since 2017.
Defensive metrics can vary on an annual basis, and it doesn’t seem San Francisco’s concerned with this past season’s mid-tier showing. Correa boasts a plus arm and has generally been very sure-handed. There may be some trepidation about how his 6’4″, 220 pound frame will hold up into his mid-late 30’s, particularly since he’s only an average runner. With his hands and arm strength, however, the Giants can at least project above-average glovework for the next few seasons.
San Francisco has four-time Gold Glove winner Brandon Crawford under contract for another year. They didn’t enter the offseason needing shortstop help necessarily, but their infield around Crawford had its share of question marks. San Francisco re-signed Wilmer Flores to a two-year guarantee to add a productive righty bat to the mix at first, second or third base. Tommy La Stella is under contract for another season but hasn’t played well since landing in San Francisco. J.D. Davis and David Villar are on hand as corner options, while Thairo Estrada can cover the middle infield and adds a solid righty bat.
There are a lot of moving pieces available for skipper Gabe Kapler, but adding Correa figures to solidify the left side of the infield with an everyday pair. Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote last month the team planned to move Crawford to the hot corner if they were to sign Correa. Crawford has never played an inning outside of shortstop in the majors, but he figures to handle the less demanding position well.
While shortstop itself may not have been a priority for president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi and his front office, adding impact talent certainly was. The Giants made no secret of their desire to land Judge. When he returned to the Bronx, the club pivoted to Correa — the clear top hitter remaining. He’ll now become the highlight acquisition of the offseason, joining outfielder Mitch Haniger and pitchers Sean Manaea and Ross Stripling as players brought in to try to rebound from an 81-81 campaign.
Doing so requires one of the largest investments in major league history. The $350MM guarantee checks in as the fourth-largest ever. It’s the second-biggest free agent deal of all-time, just narrowly below the $360MM deal that Judge inked a week ago. Correa becomes the second free agent to land a 13-year contract, matching the record length secured by Bryce Harper with the Phillies over the 2018-19 offseason. The deal runs through the 2035 campaign, what will be Correa’s age-40 season.
That kind of lengthy megadeal has become en vogue this offseason. Turner and Bogaerts signed 11-year deals with the Phillies and Padres, respectively, taking them each through their own age-40 seasons. Judge inked a nine-year deal that paid him through age 39. MLBTR had predicted Correa for a nine-year, $288MM contract at the start of the offseason. As with Turner and Bogaerts, those deals lasted longer than anticipated, with each correspondingly securing a greater guarantee than expected.
That has involved a bit of a tradeoff with regards to annual salary, however. Correa’s deal comes with an average annual value around $26.92MM, a mark that’s outside the top 25 in MLB history. That’s well lower than the $32MM per-year salary MLBTR had projected, with the Puerto Rico native electing to sacrifice some money on an annual basis to secure a larger total sum. Doing so could very well position him to spend the remainder of his career in the Bay Area.
From a team perspective, spreading the guarantee over a longer term adds more future downside but has the more immediate benefit of reducing the club’s luxury tax hit. A team’s CBT commitments are based on deals’ average annual values, and the $26.92MM mark is more manageable in that regard.
That’s now relevant for the Giants, whose payroll has spiked dramatically. The specific financial breakdown isn’t yet clear, but an evenly distributed salary would push the Giants 2023 payroll around $190MM, as projected by Roster Resource. Their luxury tax figure is about $206MM, $27MM below the base threshold. San Francisco’s spending is well above the $150-155MM range of the past few seasons, but it’s still shy of their $200MM franchise-record Opening Day mark from 2018.
The Giants could keep pushing forward as they jostle for position atop a stacked NL West with the Dodgers and Padres. The bullpen is still a question mark, and San Francisco could look into upgrades at first base and/or center field. The Giants remained involved in the bidding for ace Carlos Rodón as of this afternoon as well, although signing both Correa and the top remaining free agent starting pitcher may push beyond their financial comfort level.
As for Correa’s now-former team, they’ll be left to regroup having missed out on their top target of the winter. Minnesota offered a 10-year deal worth $285MM, tweets Jon Heyman of the New York Post. That came with a higher annual salary than the offer Correa actually accepted, but the Twins were apparently reluctant to commit deep into his 30’s. They’re now facing an uncertain shortstop situation, with Kyle Farmer and Royce Lewis looking like the top internal options.
Minnesota has already had some discussions with Swanson this offseason, keeping tabs on him as a fallback possibility to Correa. The organization should have a decent amount of financial flexibility and could now pivot more strongly after Swanson if they’re determined to address shortstop. They’ve also been linked to Rodón at various points and could try to allocate their spending capacity to a top-of-the-rotation arm. The Twins surely aren’t done in any event, although that’ll be little consolation for the front office and fanbase for the moment. Because Correa was ineligible for the qualifying offer, they don’t receive any compensation for his departure.
It’s the latest massive move in an offseason that has gained plenty of steam since the calendar flipped to December. Correa joins an increasingly loaded division and, more generally, a very competitive National League. In the process, he becomes the new face of the Giants — a role the club hopes he’ll effectively hold well into the next decade.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported Correa and the Giants had agreed to a 13-year, $350MM contract. Jon Heyman of the New York Post reported the deal didn’t include any opt-out provisions but contained a full no-trade clause.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Isaac Allen
Holy Toledo. Giants broke the bank.
Tcsbaseball
I’m sure I’ll get attacked for this but I don’t even think he’s worth half of that contract
RyanD44
I just don’t get it. He’s good, but he’s not a premier player. He struggles to stay healthy, he’s never hit 30 homers or driven in 100. He doesn’t run. Is 20 HR and 80 RBI worth $27m a year for 13 years?
falconsball1993
RBI is dependent on lineup and spot in batting order. Dumb stat for predicting skill. He doesn’t run bc no one runs.
Though I agree it’s a hugely overpaid contract
RyanD44
So does it make it even worse than he’s spent 2/3 of his career hitting 3rd and 4th and he still hasn’t even driven in 100?
DTD/ATL1313
He played on some offensive juggernauts…poor excuse
falconsball1993
On the Astros? Yes lol. He didn’t bat 3rd or 4th. And when he did, his batted ball rates would’ve easily surpassed 30/100 had he had a full season in that spot.
Codeeg
He’s 30% better than a league average hitter and probably 40% better than a SS. He fields fine for now and can move down to third and then first/DH if he still is hitting.
bigdaddyt
Bo is gonna be so ungodly expensive for the jays considering he’s better (just not defensively)
falconsball1993
Check his OPS+. He’s routinely a much better (25-40%) better hitter than the rest of the league.
RyanD44
Go look at his career splits. He’s played almost 600 out of 888 games hitting 3rd or 4th.
And the fact that he can’t make it through the whole season isn’t a good defending point for him.
falconsball1993
And he still had an OPS+ north of 125 despite being hurt. I think you’re overthinking this. They signed for longer years and less money to stay under tax. Last years are sunk cost anyways.
falconsball1993
After returning from the finger bruise, Correa was one of the sport’s best players. He hit .299/.376/.488 in 487 plate appearances from mid-May onwards. Among 133 qualified hitters over that stretch, he ranked 14th in on-base percentage and 23rd in slugging. That excellent finish brought his season line up to .291/.366/.467 in 136 games.
youngliam
tbh in 7years this contract will look cheap lol
IndianRye
Jose’s done both babbyy
worthington
It is nowadays.
Pickle_Britches
What has Turner beat him in last few years other than runs or steals? Sup with WAR and age?
jjd002
He has the 6th highest wRC+ of all time (for shortstops), ahead of Seager who got $350 million.
jjd002
Bo is not better than Correa. What you guys smoking in Canada?
websoulsurfer
You are correct. You don’t get it. There are a large number of intelligent baseball people on this board that could explain it to you, but your haterade is strong, so why bother.
FrankRoo
Not really. Hitting with runners on or RISP is a skill some players and hitting approaches thrive at. Compare Correa to someone like Pujols and you see the difference. For some reason Pujols not only slugged more w/ higher avg, but also did this while getting pitched around at the same time (more BB with RISP with less PAs vs bases empty).
Correa is the opposite. Slugs less with RISP, but does strike out less as well vs bases empty, possibly due to approach in those situations trying to put the ball in play.
Each hitter is different and their approaches and skills do make a difference when it comes to driving in rubns. The “RBIs don’t matter anymore” line is getting a bit old when we have so much data available and these hitters have had more than enough career ABs to see their trends.
Hego Damask
He isn’t worth that money. Thats the Giants being so desperate to sign a big name that they overpaid for Correa. Anyone see what the Twins offered him?
websoulsurfer
Ryan, It doesn’t matter where you bat in the order, it matters how many people were on base when you came to the plate. Look at the RBI leaders and without fail it’s the guys that had the most guys on base.
But you know what? You won’t understand that either.
websoulsurfer
Bo is better? Delusional much?
FrankRoo
If I’m paying a player based on what he can do every day (rate stats like OPS+), but don’t get that every game then am I overpaying? Sure feels like it. If Correa plays 75% of games a player is expected to play during a season shouldn’t he cost 25% less?
Jobba11
He was a 140 and 134 OPS+ last 2 seasons WAR of 5 and I think 7 in 2021 and
Thats a very good MLB player
paddyo furnichuh
Not a premiere player? I guess if you simply look at two counting stat lines only, you can conclude that.
But to better evaluate any position player and where they stand, look at stats like triple slash line and OPS+ and also DRS and OAA. Is a career SLG of .479 top tier for SS? It likely is for SS in most eras of MLB.
Those counting stats are great accomplishments of course. But they also represent other factors like strength of the rest of the team and batting order.
websoulsurfer
He also had a top 3 rWAR and top 4 bWAR at SS during his career. Ryan isn’t overthinking this, he simple doesn’t have any baseball knowledge. He literally has no clue what makes a player good.
websoulsurfer
Already does. $26.9 million AAV is cheap for a guy of his level of play.
Jobba11
The “just not defensively” is a pretty big deal when your talking SS
Also what metric tells you Bo is better ? His OPS+ and WAR has been lower both of the last 2 seasons
I say this as a Jays fan . You are significantly overvaluing your hometown player who I love btw
Blue Baron
@Hego Damask: Actually, you are wrong. He is worth it by definition, because any good, service, or thing for sale is worth what the highest bidder in the market is willing to pay. It’s basic economics and the very definition of market price.
BondsAway
You guys don’t get it. Unless you’re smarter than every GM in baseball, Correa is an elite SS. He gets on base, had high OPS, & is hard to strike out. Above average defender with a cannon for an arm. Great leader, smart, & a clutch player. Worth every dime!!!
Poster formerly known as . . .
falconsball, you’re right that RBI are dependent on lineup and batting order. But he “doesn’t run bc no one runs”?
Since 2017, Trea Turner has stolen 168 bases.
Correa has stolen six.
If no one runs, Turner must walk REALLY FAST.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“He didn’t bat 3rd or 4th”
Like they say, falconsball, you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
As an Astro, Correa had 1,009 AB batting cleanup and 899 AB batting third, combining for 68% of his AB.
Kruk's Beer League
I’m not sure Bo is better. Offensively he is certainly comparable. Defensively, Bo feel off a cliff this year. I like Bo a hell of a lot more than Correa, but Correa currently seems to be the more rounded of the two.
youngliam
He probably isn’t worth that money today but the Giants need an attractive core or else they can kiss any big free agent they want goodbye over the next few years.
websoulsurfer
Seager got $325 million
websoulsurfer
What percentage of baserunners did the hitter drive in? That is the only thing I want to know. Not batting average or slg% with RISP. Not any of the so-called clutch stats. Tell us what they actually produced with men on base.
Pujols was a 1B, not an elite defensive SS. Apples to oranges.
Let’s compare Correa to his peers at the percentage of baserunners driven in. An apples-to-apples comparison. No particular order here.
Correa – 16.6%
Lindor – 15.6%
Turner – 17.0%
Seager – 16.4%
Bogaerts – 15.9%
Swanson – 15.6%
Pretty close.
RBI as a stat is completely and utterly useless in measuring individual player performance. It is completely without context. It’s like saying there are more traffic accidents in Los Angeles than Milwaukee, without taking about how many accidents per capita in each of those cities.
websoulsurfer
Where he batted in the order is completely irrelevant. What percentage of baserunners he drove in as compared to other SS is what matters. I answered that above.
cuban363566
Websoulsurfer, maybe you could research some stats before spouting off. For his career, with RISP he has a career tOPS+ of 97. Seems to me that he would have higher rbi #s if he actually produced in those situations
Poster formerly known as . . .
What’s the time frame, websoulsurfer?
Poster formerly known as . . .
There are different contributing factors in different RBI scenarios.
For example, if a runner is on third base and he scores on a lazy sac fly well short of the warning track because the outfielder has a weak arm and the runner is a burner, that’s not the same as a slower runner scoring all the way from first base when the batter hits a wallbanger to the deepest part of the park and splits the defenders.
The RBI in the first case was substantially dependent on the runner’s speed and the fielder’s weak arm, while the RBI in the second case was more a function of the quality of contact on the part of the batter.
JerseyShoreScore
Pros: Correa is a great defender at shortstop, but the Giants are solid defensively there. Seems to be a leader and positive clubhouse guy.
Cons: Career Numbers somewhat limited:
1 Season of 150 games played.
1 Season of 100 runs scored (On great teams in a great ballpark)
0 Seasons of 100 RBIs
1 Season of 25 HRs
1 Stolen Base since 2019
2 Seasons over .280 Batting Average.
So, yes he is a good player, but he received superstar dollars and years…
Baseball_dude
You’re right, RBIs are dependent on the lineup and batting order.. that being said, He played for the Astros who had a good lineup in front and behind him and he never had a 100 RBI season. Unfortunately nowadays this is an average contract for decent/good players (not great players)
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
Dumb assumption to disregard RBI importance. RBI is more dependent on focus and mindset when there are teammates on base, if you ever play baseball and are not a blind fanatics of WAR and replacement meaning. He is selfish player and batter, that’s a fact. Just check his average with men on base and in scoring position. The giant will regret it just like the Cubs did with Jason Heyward. Ups.. is an outfielder vs CC a SS HOF candidate based on WAR with incredible defense and super human power and unique War advance metric number out of this world and should be a first time HOF member. Ups HOF doesn’t matter. Duh! Nevertheless CC should be compared with B. Harper. Duh!
JrodFunk5
14th/23rd over a limited stretch is not elite.
robert-5
Trea Turner runs. And he’ll likely be running more in ‘23.
Correa is massively overrated.
TheMan 3
This contract for a player not considered elite means by next year, someone will break the $1 billion dollar contract and soon thereafter fans won’t have the disposable money to spend at a baseball game on a recurring basis
Lars MacDonald
But, he’ll be 35 and there will still be 6 years to go on the contract.
The Giants better hope he ages gracefully.
123redsox
@falconsball1993 Correa has hit out of 3 or 4 hole in 60.8% of his plate appearances in the majors. That would be a combined total 2,319 plate appearances out of 3813 plate appearances in his career
Mystery Team
Let’s play Sesame Street’s Which One Of These Things Is Not Like The Other. Here we go: Mike Trout – Bryce Harper – Aaron Judge – Trea Turner – Manny Machado – Carlos Correa. You guessed it boys and girls it’s Carlos Correa who’s out of place those other players are elite offensive players while Carlos is eeehhhh pretty good I guess.
put it in the books
RBI is not a dumb stat. If you a premier player like him playing in a top spot in the lineup like he does and is in a good offensively batting order which he always is and you still don’t drive in 100 runs then it’s a pretty meaningful stat.
falkensmaze
Boras.
RockinRobin
If Baseball Reference is accurate, 61% of his games started he batted 3rd or 4th.
If you take his 4th batter position (273 games) with 42 HRs and 182 RBI, for a 150 game season that would equal 23HRs and 100 RBIs. So, not really a 30 HR guy….barely 100 RBI.
Ra
RBIs are dependent to an extent similar to Runs scored are dependent – partially Hit 30 homers, your runs scored are also 30 RBIs.
The best hitters translate into having the most RBIs, not just because of most chances.
Ra
Well said, FrankRoo. Bravo!
Ra
RBIs are mostly dependent on good hitting. Divide RBIs by chances and you’ll find the batterswith the highest percentage are most often slotted from 2 to 4 in the batting order.
Ma4170
You buy fully into that narrative? He’s always played on a premiere team. His rbi are lower because he doesn’t get as many XBH with men on base.
The Natural
And there a bunch of stuff about your own psyche that you dont understand. Lighten up
brat922
The Giants are very particular about the players on their team. They want decent guys who are team players, great examples and he is a very big leader in clubhouses as well as helping others in the field during games. He wanted a team he could help move on the standings and make a difference for. It isn’t all about stats, though that is a big part of considering a new Giant.
Teamspirit
Glad he is out of the American League. Hello sunny California, goodbye snowy Minnesota.
Sunday Lasagna
@websoulsurfer, not necessarily true, not all runner in scoring position at bats are the same. Who was the opposing pitcher and what was the skill of the defenders in those at bats? One batter might have had a much higher rate of pitching changes to create tougher matchups than others. How fast or good of baserunners were those on base? How well did the defense keep their leads down? What base were those runners on and how many out were there? There are so many variables. Just looking at success % or tOPS+ will not give a clear answer. It’s why the lineups of the Rays vary so much, analytics and a great lineup algorithm can win games.
debubba
He is 42 when that contract expires. Ouch. All of these long-term deals clubs are making is incredible.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Bo is better……lol, OK. Not true even a little bit. Younger, yes. Better, in your Molson-soaked dreams.
Jaysfansince92
Bichette is comparable offensively but Correa is definitely better defensively therefore better overall.
There is an arguement that could be made that Bichette is slightly more valuable offensively if you believe hits are better than walks, but still not enough to make up for the defense.
Jaysfansince92
285/10
Jaysfansince92
Just out of curiosity where did you find the numbers for that? I would be interested in looking at that for a few players.
Moonlight Graham
I like Bo a lot. I don’t think he’s better offensively. They’re probably comparable, with a speed edge to Bo and a plate-discipline edge to Correa.
But defense is a big part of Correa’s value. A guy who can play that kind of defense and hit at a high level is what the Giants are paying for. Bo has his shortcomings with the glove.
Wagner>Cobb
RyanD44: You’re absolutely spot on. His metrics are great, but the counting stats are average. When healthy his hit totals, doubles, and homeruns align with any other solid but unspectacular player. His walk totals are ok. He’s as likely to strikeout over 100 times per year as anyone else. He’s a good, complimentary, hitter that can improve most lineups. However, people act like he’ll carry the Giants the way Judge would have. It ain’t happening.
In my opinion, superstar players have both. Look at Trout, Ohtani, Judge, Freeman, Goldschmidt, even Tatis and Lindor…good metrics and big numbers on counting stats. Many modern fans quickly write off the counting stats but that only serves to torpedo their own argument. That’s why, when someone presents a counting stats position, they write it off and say the person who made it “doesn’t know anything about baseball”. In reality it shows that their argument is weak and that they can’t defend it well.
Shoguneye
Smoking the best!
Wagner>Cobb
Proves my point, really. Give an actual counter point.
kcmap
…and they say cheaters never prosper. This one did.
avenger65
Yeah, the health thing bothers me too. He was injured in 2019 and since then he has played three seasons and has been one of the best SS in bb. I’m also worried because, when he was nine, he fell off his bike and bruised his knee. When, oh when, will he ever recover from that, if ever.
Wagner>Cobb
His health wasn’t the crux of my point.
bag o ballz
yeah I looked it up yesterday and over a 13 year span the average salary for a player has just under doubled – by the end of the contract if that trend holds up the actual value of the 27mm AAV will be equal to around 14-15mm in today’s dollars which isn’t horrible
Wagner>Cobb
He also routinely has average amounts of hits, home runs, and doubles.
Wagner>Cobb
GM’s make plenty of mistakes. They aren’t infallible individually or as a collective. Arguing that “everyone agrees he is elite” proves nothing.
rememberthecoop
Teams like his leadership. The Twins said he completely changed their clubhouse dynamics. And prior to 2022 he was generally regarded as the best defensive shortstop, a premier position on the diamond. And he has that star power that tells the team we want to win. That’s what he brings. Like him or hate him for cheating, there’s a reason why he was in demand
dpsmith22
Imo Jose is a superior player. Brings so much more offensively.
Wagner>Cobb
“You are correct. You don’t get it. There are a large number of intelligent baseball people on this board that could explain it to you, but your haterade is strong, so why bother.”
– Websoulsurfer
Perfect example of what I’m talking about. The “other side” is “too hateful” to illicit a counter argument, so they are just dismissed with the suggestion that the “other side” is also unintelligent.
Wagner>Cobb
I agree that he has value. But this narrative that he’s a superstar on par with Trout, Judge, Ohtani, etc. holds no water.
Hammerin' Hank
Hitting with runners on base or RISP is not a repeatable skill. These numbers fluctuate greatly from year to year among all players.
Hammerin' Hank
RBIs are a fun stat and are great for fantasy baseball. But they don’t really tell you that much about a hitter’s ability. Generally speaking, they tell you more about how many guys were on base when he was hitting.
Hammerin' Hank
He never had 100 RBIs mainly because he rarely played a full season. That’s more an indication of his lack of ability to stay healthy than his lack of ability to drive in runs.
LLGiants64
In 8 years this contract will look like the Giants worst nightmare.
Hammerin' Hank
No. RBIs are more dependent on how many men are on base in front of a hitter than they are on his focus and mindset. And the second half of your post is nothing but incomprehensible gibberish, typical of advanced-metric haters like yourself.
bleedinblue 2
Assuming he is still a productive player in 7 years. He is under contract eith full no-trade clause until he is 41 years-old. Well past normal prime years. I predict the contract will eventually be a burden pn the Goants.
Hammerin' Hank
Running is overrated. I play fantasy baseball, and that’s the only form of baseball in which stolen bases mean very much. It’s better for Trea to stay at first and let Harper, Schwarber, and Hoskins knock him in when they hit one over the fence. Teams have learned this over the years. The lessons of Bill James have finally taken hold.
Hammerin' Hank
He doesn’t drive in 100 runs because he’s missed so many games over the years. So if you want to ding him for the injuries go right ahead. It’s justified. But it’s also the main reason for his sometimes-low counting stats. Logic, people.
Hammerin' Hank
No, they’re more dependent on opportunities, but go on believing what your local broadcasters have taught you through the years if it makes you happy.
Wagner>Cobb
It is a repeatable skill. That’s why there are guys with massive career rbi totals.
BaseballisLife
Lay off the Labatts bigdaddy. Bo is ok, but even the Jays were talking of moving him off SS. He is not that good.
BaseballisLife
Cuban, Web got this one right. What matters is the % of baserunners driven in compared to other SS. Obviously Correa is near the top of that list.
tOPS is relative to the players OPS, not the league or other SS so that stat is actually saying he was really good at hitting with RISP since he was 30% better than the league at hitting overall.
Seems to me that you need to learn what the stats mean before spouting off.
BaseballisLife
Because he is a superstar player.
BaseballisLife
Wrong answer RA. RBI correlate most directly with number of baserunners, not skill as a hitter. BRS tells the real story. Take a look at Baseball Reference sometime.
You should have plenty of time to research since you are an Egyptian god.
BaseballisLife
He’s talking about over a career, not a single game. All those variables even out over time.
BaseballisLife
40. Since you are obviously guessing, take off your shoes and use your toes to help you count.
BaseballisLife
Cobb, You had a cogent point? I didn’t see one.
BaseballisLife
For a SS? You don’t really pay much attention to baseball, do you?
BaseballisLife
40. He turns 41 the month after the regular season ends.
Wagner>Cobb
BaseballIsLife: I made several. Still waiting for yours. As I said, most of the “advanced metrics only” zealots leave things at “you’re not intelligent enough to have this explained to you” or “your argument is weak” without actually providing a counter point.
BaseballisLife
Cobb, what was cogent about anything you said?
Pete'sView
dpsmith22 — Great player, but how does that diminish Correa. Would love to have them both.
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
That % numbers are really irrelevant indeed. Percent just make the real numbers blur or diluted. Should show your source and number of games. More games played more probability to fail, percentage wise. You only take those metrics in favor of the cheater CC. Do you work for his agent? Full disclosure is required.
Dock_Elvis
Better hope not because that means inflation is well outpacing salaries. That won’t bode well for mlb marketing itself.
Dock_Elvis
FrankRoo. Not if in that 75% of games he 40% more valuable than other players.
Wagner>Cobb
Baseball: all of it.
Pete'sView
Hammerin’ Hank — But that will change this year with the new rules and bases., a return to the the more complete game of baseball.
Ma4170
It’s funny we’re even debating it because there’s a measurement called RE24, which is better than OBI%. It takes into account actual baseball context. For example, if someone hits a HR w runner on 1st and 2 outs, they get more credit bc chances of driving in those runs are low. But runner on 1st 0 out and hit into DP adversely impacts it. So it accounts for opportunity and context.
From 2020-22, freeman leads all MLB w 140.71. Judge is second w 128.74. Trea turner 11th w 78.28. Seager 19th. Correa is 27th w 53.16. So no, it’s not just lack of opportunity. It’s pretty simple, if you hit more XBH in those situations, you’ll drive in more runs. He doesn’t, at least not enough to be considered an upper echelon run producer like judge, who he was compared to in the thread.
Jean Matrac
Ma4170, The problem there is it still comes down to luck, if that system is based on when a guy gets his hits. Like a guy can who hits .250 can pick the situation when he gets that 1 hit out of 4 ABs? What about a guy that goes 4 for 5, but doesn’t figure in the scoring and hits an at ‘im ball with RISP in his last AB? Is he less valuable than the guy that went 1 for 5, but hit a HR with 2 outs?
Between 2 guys that go 1 for 4, the one that got his hit with 2 outs and runners on is more valuable than the guy that led off an inning with a hit. One guy is more valuable because of when he got his hit. I just don’t believe that a guy can choose when he gets his hits. To my knowledge hitters are trying to get a hit in every AB.
And DPs are scored negatively when they aren’t always a sign of bad hitters. The top 10 career leaders in GiDP are all in the HoF, except for Pujols, and Cabrera, who will be, and Julio Franco who ranks 10th. Guys who hit into a lot of DPs are RHHs, not blazing fast, who hit the ball hard, and hit in the order with a lot of runners on. Guys who hit a lot of HRs also hit into a lot of DPs.
Ra
Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth would all like to have a word with you about how their RBIs mean nothing with regards to their values as hitters.
Jean Matrac
None of those players need the RBI stat to affirm their greatness. Their overall ranking in career OPS+, and WAR are better testaments than RBI.
Good players will, of course, have a lot of RBI. But Pujols has more RBI than Ruth. ARod and Cap Anson have more than Bonds. Them plus Gehrig, Musial, Cobb, Jimmie Foxx, Eddie Murray, Willie Mays, Mel Ott, Miggy, and Yaz all have more RBI than Ted Williams
So which do you think is more informative regarding Williams. His #2 ranking in OPS+, his ranking 11th in WAR, or his 16th rank in RBI? RBI has some value, but it’s not nearly as good an indication of value as some other stats.
Ma4170
Yes, from how I understand the stat at least, it’s based on opportunities. So even if you have way fewer opportunities, your RE24 can be high if you capitalize on them. It’s basically a measure of how many runs did you drive in based on the situations you faced. You have guys with not a lot of AB with runners on that have higher RE24, so it’s a good measure. I mean, I can look at Correa’s number of AB with men on compared to big RBI guys and see that his % of RBI with men on is much lower than guys who get 100 RBI regularly, but that takes out some of the context you’re mentioning. Problem is, he could get a walk or a single w/ a runner on 2nd and not get the run in, where big run producers are more likely to put up the 2b or HR.
Jean Matrac
Okay, I see what you mean. I’ll have to look into that .I am always a little wary of any stat that suggests a clutch element, which I don’t believe in.
Ra
RBIs are interdependent: skill + opportunity. Crappy batters can get opportunities and still have poor RBI totals. The best hitters will have high RBIs even when taken out of the 2 – 4 holes.
Runs scored are also interdependent, and still a reflection of batting skill as well as baserunning skill.
Always funny explaining RBIs to people who have never had 2 RBIs in their lives.
Ra
Yet the greatest hitters lead in RBIs because they were great hitters first and got the opportunities second. There is a reason why they were availed those opportunities – because their skill dictated they earned the opportunities to compile their tallies.
Ra
I am skeptical about “clutch” also, at least to a degree.
cobby
I’m a Dodger fan. He’s worth it.
Doral Silverthorn
that settles that
Samuel
After leading the Twins to the WS last year, I expect he’ll do the same for the Giants.
Travis’ Wood
Yeah you’ll definitely get attacked for that. Cause that’s a terrible opinion. He’s worth way more than $26 mil per year for the next handful of seasons, then he should be average for a few and they’ll deal with a few bad years on the back end. This is much better than the contracts for both Turner and Bogaerts. Correa is a better hitter than both and only 28.
tombenton
That’s nuts, he’s good but NOT that good.
BondsAway
Whose better?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Correa is clearly worth half that contract, maybe 75% of it. But the Yankees must feel a lot better about what they paid for Judge and the Phillies for Trea.
Travis’ Wood
Well Correa is making less per year than Trea, is 2 years younger, is a much better hitter and a much better defender. So no, the Phillies are not looking good with that Turner contract. This deal is much better.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Turner $300 million/11 years
Correa $350 million/13 years
Correa is 15 months younger
Without commenting on who is better now, I think NEITHER Turner not Correa will be elite at age 40.
Phillies paid roughly $280 million for 8 good years ($35/yr) and $20 million for 3 poor years. ($7/y)
Giants paid $280 million for 8 good years ($35/yr) and $70 million for 5 poor years ($14/yr)
websoulsurfer
The haterade with this bunch is strong. So strong that it blots out reality of player performance and value from their vision.
2016-2022
34.8 WAR
29.4 WAR
29.4 WAR
2020-2022
14.3 WAR
14.2 WAR
12.1 WAR
$350 million
$300 million
$280 million
That these numbers line up so well is no accident. It’s the reality of the player’s value.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
14 months and 22 days younger
Turner 6/30/1993
Correa 9/22/1994
ForeverGiantsFan
He better than Judge. Just not in 2022.
websoulsurfer
2 years in terms of age for the season. Correa is entering his age 28 season. Turner is entering his age 30 season.
MM.MM
So he’ll really post the same in that albatross SF lineup!?
Sunday Lasagna
Elite at age 40…..at SS……Honus Wagner did put up 5.6 WAR at age 41 but it’s been a century since a SS put up an elite season over 40 so there is a pretty good chance neither Turner or Correa will be elite at that age.
Pete'sView
MM.MM — You underrate that “albatross lineup.”
Ma4170
Where did you get those numbers, carloscorrea.com? 2020-22 turner war is 15.9, bogaerts 12, Correa 11.7 per fangraphs, and Correa’s is driven up most by defense out of the three, which war overvalues, even if some might disagree there.
BaseballisLife
No one that understands the stats uses fWAR for position players in the age of the shift. fWAR uses UZR for its defense calculations and UZR doesn’t take the shift into account. Just the zone the player is supposed to be in.
Use the Baseball Reference version for position players. Its more accurate.
MM.MM
Either way, health isnt on his side.
Ma4170
Again, placing way too much value on defense, which is subjective anyway as you see the variance between OAA, DRS and UZR.
Correa is the third best of those three last three years by every measure I’ve seen, and certainly not any better.
Ma4170
Correa isn’t a better hitter than trea by any measure
Jean Matrac
WampumWalloper, None of the teams that signed them think Turner, Bogaerts, or Correa to be elite at age 40. That’s not the reason why they gave those players deals that long.
websoulsurfer
Correa just signed the 4th largest contract in MLB history. Regardless of what any fan thinks about his value to a team, that is what he is worth.
websoulsurfer
I don’t think anyone expects Correa to be at SS at age 40. If he is still there at age 35 it will be a huge win for the Giants.
There are 41 guys that have still hit above league average wRC+ and OPS+ during their age 40 season. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&… With the universal DH, if Correa can do that it would also be a huge win for the Giants.
websoulsurfer
There is a reason this site links to Baseball Reference for player stats. Use their WAR.
websoulsurfer
Defensive metrics are not subjective. But I can see why someone who doesn’t understand the stats would certainly try to say that.
UZR doesn’t take into account shifts, just a zone in which a certain % of plays are made in by players at that position. In the age of the extreme shifts it’s pretty useless.
DRS does take into account the shift. People input things like the pitch speed, exit velocity, launch angle, time from when the ball is hit to the catch/miss, distance covered by the player, player sprint speed, and several other factors into formula to determine the value of each play. That formula also takes into account plays where the fielder does not get the out but does prevent extra bases.
OAA is also a person doing the same thing with more accuracy on positioning and distance traveled to make the catch. It does not take into account bases saved, just runs prevented directly on the play being graded.
Those are the differences. Both are valid. Both require around 3 full seasons of information to make an accurate measure of a player’s performance on defense.
Correa has been the best in DRS and the 4th best in OAA and inarguably better on defense than the other 3 major FA this offseason.. He is arguably the best SS in MLB on defense.
Ma4170
And there’s still subjectivity because the stats are based on what somebody can be expected to do normally over time. Yet on a certain play where a fielder might be expected to based on past performance, they may not because of a bad jump, delayed read, slight slip on first step, not as much on the throw, etc. So there are assumptions embedded in all of it based on experience, but none of those are 100%, just correlations. None of these are absolutes or even predictive. To my original point, the amount defense influences WAR and value is overstated. It can be pretty obvious at times too in comparing certain players.
Pete'sView
websoulsurfer — Thanks. The name that surprised me there was Brian Downing.
websoulsurfer
Not attacked. Ignored. Pitied maybe. No reason to attack those that have a baseball intelligence deficit.
LordD99
He’s more than worth a $27MM AAV. A 13-year deal though? I guess all these teams are prepared to cut the players the last four or five years.
ForeverGiantsFan
It’s about trying to minimize your luxury tax payment.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
He’s not. I honestly think everyone got overpaid this winter. I’m not even sure deGrom has even pitched 30 games in a season. He’s injured so much, can’t keep track
Judge got overpaid. No way he repeats what he did this year in the next 9 years.
Trea Turner was overpaid
Even as a Cubs fan Jameson Whiskey Taillon got overpaid and I like that signing for the cubs.
Now Correa overpaid.
It’s getting ridiculous what teams are willing to pay ML players but they refused to give Minor league players a raise. Some of those players in Low A probably have to work a 9-5 in the off season just to make ends meet.
BondsAway
People don’t pay hundreds of dollars to go watch minor league games. TV & internet aren’t paying billions for the rights to show minor league games. The money is given to the players that bring in the revenue. Better off paying the players than to go in the owners pockets
Jean Matrac
In a market economy it’s impossible for everyone to be overpaid.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
That’s not the point, though. The minor league players deserve better pay. And at this point 5 years from now minor league games will charge $50 a ticket. I’m not saying those should get 5mil dollars a year but something that at least pays the cost of living
rct
“And at this point 5 years from now minor league games will charge $50 a ticket.”
No, they won’t because at that point, no one will go to the games. Tickets are priced based on what people will pay in order to maximize dollars. It doesn’t have anything to do with the salaries.
stymeedone
My job doesn’t have an off season. Teachers get one and they sometimes need to get a second job, too. Do you stand up for them as well?
BaseballisLife
That’s a logical fallacy. If you were in the top 5 at whatever is you do in the world, especially in a field with so few own jobs, you would make Correa level income.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
They definitely will. Spring training games are $50+ and even more when the cubs came here every year for 2 games.
ForeverGiantsFan
He’s as good as Judge and we were going to pay him 40 million a year. He a bargain! It’s a good signing and is a step towards making the Giants a playoff contender.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I didn’t say it was a bad signing, just that everyone has been overpaid this winter. Correa compared to the many others. Is definitely a bargain in today’s baseball money figures.
Wagner>Cobb
You can’t be serious. Judge just hit 62 homeruns in a single season. It takes Correa 3 years to hit that many.
claude raymond
Wagner, they are 2 different players. Silly to simply use HRs only to compare them. How many fielding chances and assists does a right fielder get a game? How many double plays does he turn? Clearly, judge is the better offensive player but someone like you that mocks posters for their poor statistical knowledge just failed on your response to ForeverGiant.
Here’s a take worse than yours: Forevers point mentioned that $27 mill was a bargain for SF. Judge is making $40 mill, about 50% more than Correa. So Judge is 50% better? Remember how my post started regarding how little a rightfielders D influences the game. 50% better?
Wagner>Cobb
It wasn’t my idea to compare them. It was said that Correa is as good as Judge. I pointed out that is ridiculous, which it is. I didn’t mock anyone either. I’m simply pointing out the flaw in an argument.
claude raymond
Your response to Forever was lame. And your HE STARTED IT is equally lame. Your reasoning used HR totals. Forevers opinion didn’t mention HRs. He simply said 27 million is a bargain when compared to 40 for Judge. You criticize posters all the time for their inability to defend points made. And you’re no different
Wagner>Cobb
And the best you got is calling me “lame” lol. I don’t criticize the poster. I criticize the lack of engagement on the argument. For example, you calling my points “lame”. Meanwhile other posters saying that fans of counting stats are “not intelligent enough” to be debated.
Forever said “he’s as good as Judge AND we were going to pay him 40 million”. Those are two separate statements within one sentence. Therefore, it’s perfectly valid for me to disagree with Forever that Correa is as good as Judge. It is also perfectly valid for me to bring up a point of analysis (homeruns) that shows that Judge is the better player. I can bring up others, it’s just that’s the one I went with.
I genuinely don’t know why you seem to be so mad when the extent of my criticism of Forever was to say “you can’t be serious”. I see people write way nastier things on here than that.
ForeverGiantsFan
I think Correa playing Shortstop really well and being an excellent hitter is unusual for the position. He also younger than Judge that is why I believe he’s is a more valuable player than Judge. Judge had an amazing 2022 season and I hope he continues to have success (he’s great for baseball).
Treehouse22
Buyers remorse likely begins in 1-3 years. These contracts are at best moronic; at worst criminally insane. Good luck with that, though.
.
Tcs, 6 more thumbs up and I’m pretty sure you’re gonna glitch out the matrix…
stymeedone
While he got more years than Detroit offered, it seems they set his yearly worth, rather than Minnesota’s deal. Its still more than I’d want my favorite team to be burdened with. I don’t care if he can be moved to other positions, he’s being paid an amount to play SS. Move him, and its a burden.
The Natural
I agree and this begs the question: these shortstops are getting contracts to their age 40 season and beyond; what does Swanson receive?
Wagner>Cobb
I think Swanson gets 8 for 176. 22 million per year. At least that’s the most I’d give him in the context of this bloated market. I think if he plays in a hitters park like Boston or Chicago he has a chance to age pretty well.
Oldhalo
He’s definetly good enough for the annual rate but I can tell you from first hand experience with my team that these long term deals hurt later and do impact organizational decision making. 13 years at SS is scary for a player that is very dependent on their legs.
Surly_03
Only $26.9M per year.
Codeeg
Years 9-13 are pretty much deferred salary rather than actual expectation he’ll contribute
Samuel
The two most desperate teams going into this offseason were the Rangers and Giants.
The desperate teams do things like this every year….and Scott Boras often does business with them.
They often get better. But from where they’re coming from……
ruff kuntry
13 years and a full no trade clause for a guy entering his 28 age season? Good luck with that Giants LOL
VonPurpleHayes
Everyone loves to hate on these longterm deals, but it’s the new norm. 27aav is the key here. Could end up being a bargain with the way contracts continue to inflate. Guys will be getting 30 a year left and right next few seasons. If you want a superstar FA, this is the cost.
RamMac14
If you haven’t noticed so far the new trend on these deals is longer years for lower AAV. The point is they know he won’t be worth it on the end years but are willing to pay the extra years for the lower AAV for the years that count
RyanD44
MLB should cap deals at 10 years. This 13 year stuff is getting stupid.
mlbdodgerfan2015
True, but you can’t have too many of these dead-weight deals towards the end or else you’re stuck with a bunch of old less productive overpaid players you have to pay. Only way to get out of those is to eat at least half of the contract and provide prospects in return.
Kapler's Coconut Oil
@Ryan I say we let players become free agents sooner, so they actually play for the duration of a 13 year deal!
VonPurpleHayes
The players union would never allow that. Think of it as deferred money for a retired superstar. It’s good for the game to get these franchise players. It’s safe to buy a Giants Correa jersey.
Blue Baron
@RyanD44: MLB should cap deals at 10 years? By what authority? First, any such proviso would need to be collectively bargained between MLB and the MLBPA. Second, even if the union would agree to such a thing (which they wouldn’t), why? Nobody is forcing owners against their will to offer contracts like this. If they didn’t think it was good business, they wouldn’t make the offers.
websoulsurfer
Why do you think it’s getting stupid Ryan? Can you explain your reasoning in a coherent way?
To the teams it makes perfect sense. What do you know that the billionaire owners, Ivy league educated GMs, and data scientists in the FO on these teams don’t know?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
RyanD
They don’t need to cap deals at ten years. They just need to calculate the luxury tax based on contract’s full dollars divided by and over only first ten years if contract is over ten years. But that will be a hard sell to the player’s union without raising the tax thresholds.
BondsAway
Do people understand how free enterprise works. The reason the contracts are so large is because we, the fans, fork out thousands of dollars to watch these guys do things that aren’t normal. And TV & internet pays billions for the right to show these games that we, the fans, want to watch. Would you rather the owners keep the money
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
10 years guaranteed with club options anything past it. And buyouts too.
Never gonna happen.
Jean Matrac
There is a CBA that has to be agreed to by both owners and players. What’s stupid is even bothering to suggest something that would never be agreed to.
stymeedone
@ soul surfer
I’d be guessing basic accounting, and common sense. The player will be with the team longer than the ivy league educated GMs and data scientists in the FO will be. These signings only guarantee that they should keep their resume handy for when the back end of these deals arrive.
stymeedone
They wouldn’t “keep” the money. They would spread it out to make the whole team stronger. Basic Accounting: Payroll is a percentage of revenue. Fiscally responsible businesses will calculate what works for them. If that turns out to be $200MM, and 27MM goes to one player of the 40, less gets allocated to every one else. The example team is currently the White Sox. They spent too much on the bullpen, and have a bad backend on the Grandal contract. They let Abreu walk, and are shopping their closer, because they don’t have the resources to address the other needs on the field.
websoulsurfer
No luck needed. They are going into it knowing that with a $26.9 million AAV that he will provide a large amount of surplus value in the 1st 4-5 years, break even on 3-4 years and the last 3-4 years they will take it on the chin.
Once you realize that teams don’t care about any individual year, that they only care about the totality of the value given over the life of the contract, its easy to understand the value to the team.
Now they need to fill in around him on offense.
ForeverGiantsFan
The Giants are thrilled with the signing and so are their fans.
Unclemike1525
So were the Cubs with Jason Heyward. It can change fast ForeverGiants.
websoulsurfer
How many good years did Heyward have before the Cubs signed him to that deal?
Pete'sView
Cubs signing Heyward was a bad contract from the beginning.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Bridesmaid no mo!
CaptainJudge99
Holy Snikes! What took so long?
gfan
13 years.
gfan
Platoon Davis & Wade at First.
Platoon Craw & Villar at Third.
Ernie Riles
Flores and Wade -1B
Craw and Davis – 3B
claude raymond
I feel there will be 2 platoons. DH (pederson davis) and CF/RF (Slater Wade) Flores is first basemen 5 days/week. Crawford is 3rd 5 days a week. Bart Estrada Correa Yazand Haniger start regularly (Bart 100 starts) My 2 cents anyway
Pete'sView
gfan — It hasn’t been talked about much, but Craw wouldn’t be bad at second because of his range which—with the new NO SHIFT rules—could be a real plus. It also allows Estrada to be full utility (including the OF).
On the other hand Craw’s arm would work well at 3B.
And yet on another hand (!), I’m really hoping Villar is an everyday player against RH and LH pitchers at 3B
I think Flores/Wade Jr. share 1B (with a bit of JD tossed in)..
DH is Joc and JD. I’m expecting Gabe’s call any minute to go over it with me.
el hefe 45
Insane
Pete'sView
Hallelujah! The off season is saved, the Giants have improved. All’s right with the world. Way to go Farhan and Pete!
Yankee Clipper
Pete: Wanted to congratulate you, man. I know you’ve been waiting for a big signing. That’s a huge step forward for SF. Now it’s filling holes and there are still quite a few decent players on the market. I’m happy for you, man.
Perhaps Zaidi will see how fun this is and start going crazy!
Unclemike1525
If anybody really thinks this makes the Giants NL Championship contenders is seriously deluding themselves. He’s a nice player but they still have a lot of major holes and a couple of rotation pieces go down and You’re looking at a 75 win team. I’ll be the first to admit I’m not an expert on the Giants farm system, But if they had anything interesting enough to bring up they wouldn’t of needed Correa or Judge would they? I don’t even think it makes them any better than 3rd in the West.
Pete'sView
Clip — Thanks. I think most Giant fans would agree with me that it would have been grim had he not signed with SF. I think this team as now constructed will be a lot more competitive with a solid #3 hitter in the order. And 4, 5 & 6 look pretty good too (Pederson, Haniger & Villar). Question will be who leads off. Was hoping for Nimmo, but as we know, ya can’t win em’ all.
Do Yanks sign Rodon or do Giants surprise everyone and do it? Fun off season.
Pete'sView
Unclemike1526 — I think you’ll be surprised. If Villar pans out the way he’s looked so far, the Giants will have a dangerous lineup. AS dangerous as SD? Probably not, but at least SF is on its way.
Depending how the Dodger prospects play (since LA apparently wants to get them on the ML roster), I think SF could be better than the Dodgers. Not something I would have said the past few years. But at least the Giants will be more competitive.
websoulsurfer
Not at all. $26.9 million AAV. A bargain for a player of Correa’s quality.
iverbure
The clear cut winners of this offseason is any team that avoided giving any free agent a 7 year plus deal. Most of those contracts turn out to colossal failures mlb now on mlb network digs into those kind of deals and just about all of them turn out ugly.
Yankee Clipper
“ clear cut winners of this offseason is any team that avoided giving any free agent a 7 year plus deal”
Haha- this is so true.
User 355748524
Fun fact: Correa has batted roughly twice as many at-bats in his career with no men on base then at bats with men in scoring position.
His stats with RISP: .277/.364/.455
(.818 ops) in 924 ABs
His stats with bases empty: .273/.346/.479
(.825 ops) in 1774 ABs
So no, it’s not that he isn’t capable of having 100 RBI season(s). It’s just injuries and a general lack of men being in scoring position for him that’s prevented that from happening.
Ma4170
No it’s that he’s not elite in driving runners in, and people are trying to talk like he’s an elite player. Arguably correas best year was 2021, and second most rbi he had. He had 158ab w RISP and 252ab w men on base. He had 66 and 75 rbi respectively in each scenario. SLG around 480. Good to very good.
For comparison, Alonso last year had 160 and 292ab in those situations w 96 and 116 rbi. SLG at 675 and 575. Judge had 104 and 234ab for 68 and 90rbi. Less ab and more rbi. SLG 721 and 641. Those are elite run producers. Rbi aren’t irrelevant and all about opportunity only. Extra base hits w men on produce more rbi. That simple.
Pete'sView
Ma4170 — But you wouldn’t argue that Correa isn’t a great building block for any team, would you? (Even at these ridiculous prices.)
websoulsurfer
He is 21.3% above league average over his career at driving in baserunners.
Don’t try to compare 1B to SS. It does not compute. Different expectations. Most teams put their worst fielding player with the biggest bat at 1B. Can’t do anything else on defense?, you can still be a 1B as long as you can hit for power and catch a ball thrown to you. It’s not the same for a SS. They are expected to perform at a high level on defense.
Compare hitting SS to SS. How did he perform vs how other SS performed.
BondsAway
Bryce Harper’s 13 year contract is working pretty good for Philly. They’ve already made that back & then some because of what Bryce brings
iverbure
The Bryce Harper would just had TJ? Do you people conveniently leave facts or just forgot them. Harpers arm or lack of arm going forward might limit him to 1b or DH role sooner rather than later. To suggest it’s working out good for Philly now to ignore the totally obvious huge injury risks going forward and it’s not even half over.
Pete'sView
iverbure — Even if that’s true, Harper at DH or 1B is a force in their lineup. These contracts are absurd, but that is the current marketplace, and while I’m not a Phillies fan, I think they did just fine, under the circumstances, with Harper’s contract.
Unclemike1525
OK this is just getting silly. Kudos to the Cubs for not playing in this extremely stupid money throwing contest. They promised to spend but to do it rationally. There is nothing RATIONAL about any of these SS contracts so far. You have to wonder how much of these deals will have to be paid down to even dream of moving any of these guys. The League already stepped in to stop one of these deals. At 13 years it’s an obvious attempt to skirt the Luxury Tax. Anybody know why the Giants Tax is 209 while everyone else is 233? Guess I have to do some research.
Unclemike1525
Fact is the Cubs already have a pretty good SS. Then let’s think about it. They have Kevin Made about to start AA. He’s not a fantastic SS but he’s solid and if he progresses could be up soon. Then we have Hernandez, Now this is tricky. Cubs signed him young and unfortunately will probably just start at A ball Myrtle Beach or maybe High A South Bend. He’s now 20. But, And this is where it gets tricky, He’s missed 2 years development because of Covid. So now he’s maturing and could progress rapidly also as are a lot of prospects all through baseball. Howard is a wild card because of a serious hip injury. So for them to sign somebody for 10-13 years would just be stupid when help is not far away. If they could teach Madrigal how to stretch before games and he could stay healthy, The up the middle defense would be just fine with Gomes, Hoerner, Madrigal and Bellinger. Save the money and extend the good players they have now like the Braves do and draft well and keep the winning formula. All these teams will regret these deals sooner or later, The only question is how soon? One torn ACL and their range might be affected. What Then? Food for thought.
Lyman Bostock
Career .836 ops isn’t anything to shell out 350 mil for.
But the fact that he’s only 28 and has a career almost 40 WAR … that speaks for itself. He pretty much pencils in 5 more wins for you, each year he plays.I’d bet he can continue this pace for 6 years tops. Now you have another 7 on top of that? I think the giants made a huge mistake. When he’s 35 and you still have 6 years to go, his glove better stay elite because when that .836 ops becomes >.800 it’s only going to be his defense and base running that carry him. If they still exist by then.
I’m glad it wasn’t my tram that did this. Then again, we already did do this … with Lindor lol.
Unclemike1525
It’s typical rich guy syndrome. They didn’t get to spend any money on their favorite toys last year. So your buddy goes out and buys a bigger yacht than yours. So you go out and buy a bigger yacht than his. And he buys a bigger one than yours, So where does it end? It ends when the Yacht’s collide and you realize how stupid it was.
Yankee Clipper
Mike, you’re right. That’s precisely why in a year or two, this is a self-correcting problem.
jjd002
It won’t change. I thought ARod’s first contract with Texas would be an outlier, but that was 22 years ago. Star players get long term contracts and very few of them work out.
#1WhiteSoxFan
Cubs swing and miss again!
Unclemike1525
Cool. For a team that traded for AJ Pollock you’ve got stone ones pal.
mike127
More like—Cubs swing and miss again than Twins lose their best player. Typical Sox fan– more worried about the Cubs than the teams in their own division that they actually compete against.
Pretty sure if the scenario of the Cubs and Indians playing each other in the last week of the season and the White Sox are one game ahead or behind the Indians—the Sox fan would be extremely happy if the Cubs got swept.
Fire Krall
still 4th place! rest of team stinks..
ohyeadam
If you’ve got a kid with real talent. Go into baseball. Careers are long and the money is 100% guaranteed
CaptainJudge99
Holy Toledo. The Giants can have this taint for the next 13 years. I’m keeping my talents in NY.
Giants78
Farhan dumpster diving again.
Pete'sView
Giants78 — “Dumpster diving?” You are so wrong in this case.
Jean Matrac
Pete, I think that was sarcasm.
Pete'sView
Okay, I didn’t read it that way. But I’ll go with your interpretation.
Balk
Wow
Balk
Welcome to the off-season Giants.
windycitykid89
Wow…
User 2079935927
Omg omg omg oh nooooooo
Jimbo_Jones
Opt out every other year?
rct
Every other game.
EliMorganFanClub
Woah! Dodgers fans are really gonna hate him now
Neon Cop
They’ll boo him after begging him to come to LA. Dumb fanbase!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Correa is talented but most of Dodger fan-base did not want him. Going to SF will be great for the rivalry.
puigpower
Is there a way to mute this assclown permanently? I have to mute him in every thread and it’s getting annoying.
mike127
puig—-every troll I have muted has gone away permanently—and it makes for a much easier read on the board.
tstats
As a dodger fan who wanted correa, I have looked past that pet of his past. I will now be booing him for being a Giant and for not being a dodger
jjd002
Honestly no Dodger fans should boo him or any Astro player if they cheer on Betts.
Neon Cop
Facts!
tstats
I cheer Betts as a dodger knowing what happened in 2018. A lot do dodger fans don’t move on. We got our ring eventually and it comes with the same nuance as 2017 and (to an oddly lesser extent because MLB loves Boston) 2018
case
Technically they should boo Betts about half as loud, relative to what the two organizations did.
jjd002
Boston was doing the exact same stuff Houston was, but nobody in their right mind would admit it like Houston did, after the way they got treated. They found a fall guy in Boston and nobody talked.
ateam043
You are on some good stuff, nobody here in LA wanted him.
Neon Cop
Guess you don’t browse the internet much. Dodger fans were pleading for him all over Twitter, FB, etc.
Nothing
Happy for Giants fans, can imagine how frustrated they were after missing out on Judge. Always great to add a real superstar to your team.
ruff kuntry
He’s an all star caliber player, but I wouldn’t quite classify him as a “superstar”
pc01
You would be wrong.
Travis’ Wood
He’s one of the best players in the league. Doesn’t matter what you call him
websoulsurfer
When you are a top 3 SS in the game like Correa, you are a superstar.
Giantshavetherings 2
I was relieved when they missed out on Judge. I’m OK with this one as the AAV is so much lower. This is as much a marketing deal as it is a baseball deal. I’d be willing to bet my next month’s rent it was driven by ownership more than Farhan.
Aside from this one, they don’t have any money committed past 2025 right now, so even with the large price tag it is still very affordable. But even for ’23 theyvare still ~22mil below the tax.
13Morgs13
Turner>Correa
cbraves
completely agree.
Balk
Nah
GMoney2850
Correa is better at everything lmao
Balk
Well…except speed but yes he is up to this point
Kapler's Coconut Oil
Offensively you have a great argument, but defensively not even close. Giants need the defense as much as they need the offense.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I think Bref greatly overvalued defense. I would divide defensive runs saved by 2 and reevaluate.
websoulsurfer
Baseball Reference’ rWAR and Fangraphs fWAR value defense the same.
rWAR uses DRS for the defensive portion.. fWAR uses UZR.
DRS accounts for shifts. UZR is strictly based on zone and does not account for shifts.
Which one do you think would be more accurate?
A run saved is as valuable as a run scored.
Jean Matrac
Agree. I haven’t bothered to look at UZR because it hasn’t accounted for shifts, a huge part of the game recently. Maybe with the limits to the shift starting next season, it might be more germane going forward. But for recent stats I don’t think it’s nearly as reliable as DRS and OAA.
fivepoundbass
@tad What does this have to do with the GD Germans??
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I would say this for most sites, though. Defense is partially based on the shift, which the Rays used before everyone. Also, defense isn’t contagious like offense. A guy who doesn’t get out extends the inning and gives more PAs to other hitters, gives more RBI opportunities, and allows more runs to score.
Ann Porkins
Correa is younger, a better defender, strikes out less, walks more, and has a much more consistent offensive track record. Trea Turner has more speed and has played a few other positions, but he’s bounced around to 2B and CF in the past because of his less-than stellar glove at short.
Turner is great and all, but how good is he going to be when he can’t run, can’t field, and those strikeouts creep up? At least Correa has the defense to age more gracefully at a premium defensive position, and his ability to hit for contact and draw walks should ease his decline a bit more.
Both contracts are massive and have plenty of opportunity to become ugly, but Correa definitely deserves to ink the bigger deal
HarrytheK0880
I’ll take Turner, if only for the bad taste Correa left in my mouth with the way he handled the trash can scandal, and let me be clear, not the cheating itself, but his and Bregman’s attitude after they were caught. Oh yeah, I am massively biased as well.
Ann Porkins
I’ve lightened up on the Astros scandal and the responses of players like Correa and Bregman. The Red Sox and Yankees got slaps on the wrist for cheating attempts in recent years. The trash can saga is on another level, but let’s not pretend that every team is pushing the envelope and trying to outsmart the system in any way they can.
The Braves aren’t far removed from an international signing scandal, and people hop on that AJ Preller bandwagon even though he got suspended for a shady trade.
Less than a year after the sticky substance ban, players are clearly using some substances again and it’s no big deal. And who knows how many players are still taking PEDs and just not getting caught.
MLB is messing with baseballs and possibly selectively choosing when to use dead balls — all while getting more in bed with sports betting (talk about conflict of interest).
All that is to say that I can understand how a player can see so much cheating & rule bending and think “I’m getting flak because we got caught, but so many others are cutting corners around the league. I might as well lean into the criticism to fire myself up rather than beg for forgiveness.”
Correa has often come across as a tool, and as a Giants fan a certainly have mixed feelings about him as a person. At least he’s not weighed down by something that’s actually villainous, like a domestic violence scandal for example. I don’t need my team’s players to be nice, just good at baseball and someone who doesn’t beat up family lol.
Correa’s reactions to the media and fans reminds me a bit of Bonds’ antagonism back in the day. He seemed to use the boos as fuel to give him an edge during games.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED Talk on being a Giants fan coping with signing an asshat to a 13-year deal lol
jjd002
You guys are going to love Correa. I’d get tired of apologizing for the same thing hundreds of times, all the while knowing most of the league was breaking the same rules.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
You guys will love Correa. Leader in the clubhouse, leader on the field. He cares about winning & he loves the game. Correa is also very smart, understands analytics, but also knows when to go with your baseball gut instincts. Now the task ahead is to put some more quality dudes around him…Giants are close, but I think they need two or three more pieces. Happy for you Giants fans!
WarrenSpahn
Correa is a big effing cheater…
scottn59c
I don’t understand why this guy is all but getting a free pass for being one of the most outspoken cheaters of the Asterisks’ invalid championship. Giants think THIS is who the fans want to come out to see?
I gotta be honest, I didn’t want this guy on my team period, let alone until 13 years from now.
Travis’ Wood
You clearly have never checked either players statcast page…. This is a terrible opinion
YourDreamGM
Neither at that money. But if forced I will take the younger better glove.
MoTownTigers
People can say what they want, but it’s the teams who have the discipline to stay away from these ridiculous contracts will be the ones in better shape in the future. Just as the economy is not sustainable with massive debt at all levels baseball will feel it, and the average age of 55 doesn’t help. Also, how often do these deals actually work out?
Fans will tap out at some point with wage stagnation, inflation, and higher taxes. America is living in fantasy land and it’s all going to come crashing down. The estimated American debt on all levels is about $66T and growing, that’s 200k per person!
Just like buying houses, the market isn’t guaranteed to go up with the possibility of declining attendance, less revenue, and less personal income, contracts will go down making these long term contracts even more of an albatross. No one knows what things will look like in 5 to 10 yrs, but if you take a deeper look at things, it’s not far fetched to think baseball could experience a recession or depression. Furthermore, these contracts can impede or block younger, talented, cheaper players who are key in developing a core and winning championships.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Okay Mr. Gloom & Doom…appreciate your economic diatribe on the US financial system. But it all just sounds like bitterness and salty tears and shaking your fist at the sky. And I’m not even a Giants fan, just glad CC is out of the American League.
websoulsurfer
2016-2022
34.8 WAR
29.4 WAR
29.4 WAR
2020-2022
14.3 WAR
14.2 WAR
12.1 WAR
$350 million
$300 million
$280 million
The $$$ line up with the performance
kyzr
Wow!
dodgerfan
Finally got a FA pick right
shark stitches
This offseason is crazy.
Braves Butt-Head
Dansby to the Dodgers
cbraves
I think he will come back to the Braves now. It’s between the Braves or the Cubs.
User 401527550
Not a shot. They are couple years short and about 7mil aav to low.
Selah Rick 2
Braves were out at 6 years. It’s up to 10 now.
Pete'sView
I’d guess Dansby to Cubs.
Unclemike1525
With what’s about to happen to Swanson’s market, I highly doubt Jed and Carter even participate any more. It’s not even about the money anymore. It’s the years that are stupid. I doubt the Cubs even make an offer.
websoulsurfer
Cubs or Twins.
Manfred’s playing with the balls
13 year contract?
What could go wrong?
Led Hoyer
My thoughts. The length of these contracts are absolutely absurd.
goob
An AAV of $26.9M, which by the early 2030’s will be the equivalent of $14M or so in todays dollars. And the CBT levels will be in the $300M to $400M range.
It’s unlikely to be much of a hinderance – even if he’s in a wheelchair by then… 🙂
Led Hoyer
Maybe. It seems like the giants have been waiting for their current herd of aging veterans to cycle out for at least 3 years. This guy is going to seem like an bad case of herpes by year 8. And the fans will be like crap we have him for 5 more years. I am seriously very interested to se how all these insanely long contracts play out. Stanton’s already looks horrible and he has to have a 6-7 years left?
websoulsurfer
Stanton was a 1 dimensional player destined for DH before the trade was made to the Yankees. Correa is an elite defensive shortstop as well as one of the best hitting SS in MLB.
If Correa moves to 2B or 3B in his mid 30s and spends the last 3-4 years at DH then this is still a good deal. Correa’s defensive ability is what makes this contract age better than someone like Stanton.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Actually, websoulsurfer, Stanton was the NL MVP the year before the Yankees traded for him, and he started 149 games in right field where he was credited with 11 DRS and came in fifth in the Fielding Bible voting for best right fielder.
He got injured as a Yankee. That’s what consigned him primarily to DHing.
websoulsurfer
What part of destined did you not understand? Body size and his speed or lack thereof said future DH in all caps and with a bullet.
11 DRS for a RF is good. It was 6th best for a RF that season. Tied with Nick Markakis. Same level of defense would not be league average for a CF.
He was MLVP because he hit 59 home runs, a .631 SLG, 169 OPS+, and 1.007 OPS. He was a monster at the plate.
Voting? Like the voting for GG? Exactly. Worth nothing.
Poster formerly known as . . .
In 2017, his last year as a Marlin, Giancarlo had a sprint speed of 27.8, same as Kevin Pillar and faster than Harper, Reddick, Soler and Jackie Bradley Jr., all of whom continued to play the outfield for years.
His sprint speed was also faster than Correa’s.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/sprint_speed?mi…
Judge’s body size means he can’t play the outfield either . . . oh, wait . . . he had a faster sprint speed than Mookie Betts in 2017 and he won the Fielding Bible award for the best right fielder in 2021.
Sometimes it’s better to simply admit when you’re wrong.
websoulsurfer
Nothing. The 13 years lowers the AAV to the point this is a great deal.
Edp007
Salaries are just the tipping point. Players deserve every penny.
All of them.
casorgreener
I’d disagree but. I don’t blame them for taking the money.
Catuli Carl
Sorry replied to wrong thread
Catuli Carl
Lol for playing a game? You’re insane.
User 401527550
Lot more to it then playing a game. Most spend more time training then any of us work.
Mattimeo09
Very good point
williemaysfield
I don’t think most fans understand how much work these athletes put in to their body’s and skills. It’s way more than playing a game. Countless hours in the gym, field, and cage.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Same for ICU nurses, special education teachers and single parents.
I have no problem with salaries being set by the market, but getting paid to train for baseball is a luxury and a privilege compared to the hard work and stress in many lesser paid professions. in a perfect world, minor leaguers would get a little bigger share of the money kept by owners and major leaguers, but I realize how complicated it is.
websoulsurfer
You are right about that. Most train 6-8 hours a day during the offseason. In spring training, the time commitment increases. During the season they show up at the ballpark for a night game before 11am and leave after 11pm, 27 games per month from April to September.
MoTownTigers
Right, they’re training 40/50 hrs a week. Got it.
And if they are, which would wear down your body, they would be making $10,000 hr to work out. Sounds deserved to me.
Yankee Clipper
The question you need to ask is: If they make so much money and it’s so undeserved, why do you keep paying toward it?
The only true correction is if fans stop contributing time, money, resources. Otherwise, it’s just banging your head against the wall.
Catuli Carl
First of all, no they don’t. Second, I don’t care how much time you spend practicing for the game you play. It doesn’t make you deserving of hundreds of millions of dollars for playing a game.
Catuli Carl
Yep. Like I said.
User 401527550
Single parents is not a job. It’s a life choice. ICU nurses make up to 200k a year. Not sure why you used them as an example.
websoulsurfer
What part of offseason did you not understand? Training doesn’t mean 100% physical activity or 100% effort. Training also includes time in the film room, on the trainers table, and talking with coaches. You don’t understand that because you have never done it.
Oppo Taco
I’m splitting hairs, but I know a lot of single moms who did not “choose” to be single.
User 401527550
They chose to be a parent. I’m not trying to disrespect single parents. Many are great parents and hard working people. My point is they don’t deserve to be paid more then anyone else because they are a single parent.
aragon
why should owners make so much more investing in a game?
hiflew
Because they are taking the real risk, Without players, owners would just invest in a different business and would still be rich. Without owners, most players are high school educated with no real job skills and very few would be millionaires. Which do you think is really more important for the whole puzzle?
Classicfinder
What risk do they take exactly? Crappy teams do not ever sell for less.
Travis’ Wood
Ummmm did you already forget 2020??
aragon
have you heard how much the angels are selling for? possibly $3 billion! and arte made so much profit during his tenure. that’ from $184 million to $3 billion in 20 years!
IndianRye
Ummm because that’s the whole point of investment…. *Face palm*
MLB Top 100 Commenter
No, it is a monopoly, so there is no risk of losing money. Poorer owners may need to cash out their investment is events like a pandemic diminish cash flow, but no risk of losing money.
hiflew
Any investment is risky. I will admit there is not much risk, but teams have lost money in the past. There is absolutely no business in the history of the world that constantly expands revenue. At some point the bubble will burst and THEN you will see the risk come into play. Could be natural disaster. Could be a war. Could be fan revolt. Could be people just stop watching baseball so much. Could be anything. But there is still risk.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Hiflew
That’s fair. Very low risk of losing money, very good likelihood that equity will increase, actual profits and cash-flow kept in shadows despite monopoly
websoulsurfer
Crappy teams make a higher percentage of profit. If he opened his books, I guarantee that Nutting is making a higher percentage of net profit than Liberty Media.
Ann Porkins
That’s so obtuse, it’s more than just a game. It a multi-billion dollar entertainment business.
Should the owners just pocket all the billions without the actual players getting a slice? You take away the players, and you’ve got nothing.
It’s like wanting the executives at Warner Brothers to pocket every penny of a blockbuster rather than pay the talent who makes the blockbuster a thing to begin with. Either way, the executives get stupid rich. Might as well spread some of that immense profit to the actual creatives and front-line people that make it possible.
hiflew
There are far more “creatives and front line people” than there are companies willing to foot the bill. Just like there are far more athletes willing to play than there are owners willing to pay them.
Ann Porkins
But we aren’t talking about the massive numbers of players and creatives and front line people in general, we’re talking about the players and creative and front line people who specifically are the best at their craft and are the foundation of a multi-billion dollar product.
Sure, there are tons of baseball players who would love to get paid to play the game. How many of them are as good at Carlos Correa and have an eight-year track record in the Major Leagues?
Again, it’s obtuse to say that a specific set of elite performers don’t deserve a hefty pay day because there are so many less talented and accomplished performers.
Furthermore, if every MLB player walked away, the on field product would suffer and the game’s marketability would crater. Sure, other less-talented players could swoop in and MLB could rebuild, but it would come at a colossal cost. If every owner walked away from their teams, there would be lines of billionaires and ownership groups to swoop in and buy each team. The owners can sit on their hands and watch their franchise values climb each year; it doesn’t matter if there are substantially fewer people with the capital to buy an MLB franchise — they’re still easier to replace than the top-line players themselves.
Long story short, I’d rather have everyone involved get rich, not just the owners. And if the owners are willing to shell out $350M to a single player, I’m willing to bet they feel confident that investment won’t get in the way of their personal profit. Otherwise, no one would sign these contracts in the first place.
websoulsurfer
For providing entertainment. Do you complain about how much your favorite band or musician made or your favorite actor? Baseball is no different.
MLB made $11 billion last year according to Manfred and it’s guaranteed to go up for at least the next 5 years. Players didn’t make close to half of that in 2022. They all deserve raises.
LASTSON86
No one deserves $100 plus million for being good at a kids game. Let’s try that one again
differentbears
So the owners should get even more money instead of the players who provide the show?
VonPurpleHayes
You can watch kids play baseball for free. It’s not pretty. There’s nothing “kids game” about the most talented players in the world putting on a show. There’s so much money in baseball, and the athletes should get a huge chunk of it. Sure it would be nice if the best teachers in the world made millions too, but people don’t spend the big bucks to watch them teach.
rct
@Von: “You can watch kids play baseball for free. It’s not pretty.”
LMAO, Von.
aragon
it was so much fun watching my portly kid play. he was not very good. but he had fun playing and i had so much fun.
Jean Matrac
“You can watch kids play baseball for free. It’s not pretty.”
Agree, it’s not pretty, but sometimes it can be fun, and often very funny. I wouldn’t pay MLB ticket, and concession prices to watch them though.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s definitely fun, especially when it’s your kid. But the idea that these elite athletes are playing a kid’s game is false. These guys are elite, and dedicate their lives to the craft.
aragon
why is it a kids game when it is a professional sports? kids playing the game don’t get paid but professional players should get as much as the owners are willing to pay.
marinersblue96
Owners aren’t going broke. Most of these owners will pocket $1billion at least when they sell and they don’t lose money during the season, the Braves had $568 million in revenue in 2021 and likely will be over $600 million when they report for 2022(So nice they have to report their revenue being a publicly traded ownership).
cadagan
Its a business. If it were truly a game (in the sense that you make it sound) no one would get paid.
They are pros. How do college coaches get paid? Children play games. If you are an adult you usually have to work. Get paid.
If your child lays the golden egg. (Does something special) you tell them to take the money vs others. Every single time.
aragon
it is a bis making money off players’ talents. yeah, it is a business so you have to invest money in products you sell!
YourDreamGM
People deserve whatever someone is willing to pay them. Obviously they would work for pennies on the dollar. But if owners want to pay more to win more or make more money good for them. I’m not telling a billionaire how to spend their money.
websoulsurfer
Every entertainer deserves to be paid based on the level of skill they have at providing that entertainment.
The Rock made $70 million last year, and no one questions that. For making believe?
These athletes put more time into perfecting and performing their craft than any of us do our job. The business they are the product of made $11 billion or more last season. Those athletes deserve every penny they get and more.
kyzr
Woah!
disadvantage
My thoughts exactly! Woah!
C Yards Jeff
Woah to me too, but not to player agents. Owners are accepting these contracts because agents know they can get them.
RyanD44
He’s never hit 30 home runs.
He’s never had 100 RBI.
He’s going to a pitcher-friendly park.
I don’t understand.
Balk
It’s a pretty neutral park now.
Didlz
I don’t understand what 30 home runs and 100 rbi’s have to do with his signing?
Catuli Carl
They are pretty standard benchmarks that the best hitters surpass routinely.
falconsball1993
They also depend on team and batting order, not skill.
RyanD44
Correa has hit 3rd and 4th for 2/3 of his career and he was in one of the most potent lineups for all but one season… I think he was well equipped to drive in 100.
User 401527550
HR depend on team and batting order? That’s a first.
takeitback
This isn’t true. With the Astros he actually hit 6th some.
RyanD44
590/888 career games he has hit 3rd or 4th
bigjonliljon
Especially with the trash can help
falconsball1993
Yes. Depending on who is in front or behind you, you will see different pitching patterns. More breaking balls, off speed, etc.
rct
@Catuli Carl: “They are pretty standard benchmarks that the best hitters surpass routinely.”
Only seven players in all of baseball did it last year, and two of them (Arenado and Tucker) barely squeaked by with 30 HR.
websoulsurfer
They have not been considered standard benchmarks by anyone working in the game in a couple decades. They are pretty useless stats in understanding player performance and value. Even on offense. They are not park adjusted.
RBi is dependent on what other players do, not your how well an individual player performs. The guys that have the most RBI are always the guys that had the most baserunners, but the guys that drive in the highest percentage of baserunners are usually not the guys that had the most baserunners.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
That is such a tired line. Every team Correa has been on has been stacked, except Twins last year. Those Astros teams he was on were Top 10 in batting, runs scored, RBI, Carlos probably shoulda cashed some more in, but it was likely do to his injuries/missing time that he never knocked in 100. I wish there was a stat like “clutch” that could encapsulate this tendency better.
Catuli Carl
Lol for playing a game? You’re insane.
Catuli Carl
Sorry, wrong thread
RyanD44
Look at the best hitters in the game – most have done one or both of those things. Correa hasn’t – mainly because he can’t stay healthy.. but I guess he’s magically going to be healthier as he gets older and towards his age 41 end of contract?
Kapler's Coconut Oil
@Ryan not even the Giants are expecting him to play at that point in the contract and you know it. Years 10-13 are practically deferred money in the expectation he brings them success during the years he plays
Otto371
Yes you do.
Dustyslambchops23
Agree on your last statement
VonPurpleHayes
He is arguably the best fielder at the most important defensive position in the game. Provides above average offensive production as well.
Mattimeo09
The best fielding SS in MLB? Not even close.
Maybe the best fielding SS in this free agent class, but that’s out of 4. Big accomplishment. Totally worth 350M
VonPurpleHayes
Yea sorry. I specifically meant of this FA class.
jjd002
Dude is absolutely top 4, at worst, in all of baseball defensively at SS.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
In 2022, Rojas, Swanson, Lindor and Bogaerts all had better or same fielding percentage as Correa in same or more innings.
In 2022, shortstops Seager, Adames, Lindor, Swanson, Bichette and Pena had more of the same home runs as Correa. Trea had one fewer than Correa but 27more SBs.
In 2022, for WAR, Lindor, Swanson, Turner, Bogaerts, Edman, Adams, Seager, and Bichette all were ahead of Correa.
If Correa can keep up this pace, he’ll make the Hall of Very Good,
VonPurpleHayes
And I think the best defender of the 2-way SSs if that makes sense.
websoulsurfer
From 2020-2022 Correa provided the best defense from a shortstop in baseball by a large margin according to DRS and was 4th according to OAA. Take it back another season if you want because they didn’t play a full season in 2020 and he was still the best in DRS. So, it’s easy to argue that he was the best.
Correa is no Andrelton Simmons. No one is. He was in another stratosphere
I think Lindor was the best the past 3 seasons, but I would not argue very much if someone came to me and said he thought Correa was, because he has been that good. Its close enough that I would say, I can live with that opinion and move on to an argument I could win.
websoulsurfer
Fielding percentage? Are you going to mention RBI next? Or pitcher wins?
websoulsurfer
Von, You were right the first time. He is arguably the best fielding shortstop in MLB.
Chipsss
28 years old and has already been worth 40 WAR. Looks like to age well
Pickle_Britches
But he’s much better than swansby lol. 733 ops and almost 200ks isn’t what they need. Turner would have been the one to sign but it’s ok Giants will be dog stains for like 5 years
joepanikatthedisco
He’s a plus defender at shortstop. There are plenty of Hall of Fame shortstops who don’t hit for that kind of power.
toptimrubies
Tony Gwynn never came close to either and many people consider him to be one of the greatest hitters ever.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Gwynn 15 times all-star who after his rookie year hit for batting average between 0.309 and 0.394 every year for 19 years, career on-base 0.388
Correa 2 times all-star often injured, only one out of 8 seasons over 0.300 average, career on-base 0.366
Correa games per year 7 full seasons (not counting 2020)
75, 99, 109, 110, 136, 148, 153, averages around 118 or 119 games per season
.
And only ONE 3K game EVER!
toptimrubies
now compare the SLG!
.
Hold I’m still counting his Batting Titles!!
websoulsurfer
I love Tony Gwynn more than most. You should see my office sometime. More autographed game used equipment from Tony than anyone should really have in one room.
26 game used bats of which 4 are framed and on the wall. The rest are in racks along one wall. 4 full uniforms with 8 jerseys, 3 of which are framed and on the wall. A wall with game used caps lining the entire length of the top of it, one for each season he played. Two pairs of cleats sitting on a bookcase. Plus all of his commemorative silver slugger bats displayed in this incredible 8 bat fan that dominates one wall. Plus a few dozen signed baseballs and a dozen or more autographed photos, many of which I took myself. Alicia used to ask me why I bought so much of his stuff and I always told her because it would be such a great investment.
I am a Tony Gwynn fanatic. My favorite all time player.
Tony had a 132 lifetime OPS+ which was the same as it was in his 1st 8 seasons.
Correa has played 8 seasons and has a 129 OPS+.
Not a big difference.
.
Pretty bad a$$ collection!
.
His interview with Ted is one of my all time favorites!
websoulsurfer
I cried watching that interview. I cried when he took Ted out on the field during that All Star game celebration. I cried at his last game knowing he was retiring. And I bawled like a baby when he died. I put flowers at his statue in Petco more often than I give my wife flowers.
Tony was a great player, a fixture on one team and one community for his entire career, and a better man than player. He is missed immensely.
.
That is awesome you are a good guy. You are my new pal.
Wagner>Cobb
OPS+ is not the difference between Correa and Gwynn though.
jjd002
He has the 6th highest wRC+ of any SS ever. Stop using RBI.
toptimrubies
who, me?
websoulsurfer
We get that you don’t understand what makes a player good Ryan. That much is obvious. Ask. Someone will explain it to you.
Iacredolo
Because arbitrary round numbers like 30 home runs and 100 rbis can totally decipher a players value.
Big brained stuff lol.
Milwaukee-2208
Trash can gets a contract too?
Didlz
what?
iknowyouare
Come on man
Didlz
Why would a trash can get a contract?
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Job security.
dirkg
Helps the diversity numbers. Trash cans are sorely undervalued and underpaid in the MLB.
jrussell92024
Haha – Giants always over pay.
Balk
Was it an overpay for Turner?
Pete'sView
jrussell92024 — Jealous? Everyone is over[paying. Everyone!
casorgreener
13 years. Jeebus. Bryce Harper ok. Terrible for Correa. Guess it’s the market though
10centBeerNight
Bigtime move for SFG. Figured the NYM story was Boras Borasing
painterman360
Wow! These contracts are getting out of hand
GO1962
A contract that does not expire until after the 2035 season.
clubber_lang84
27 AAV for 13 years? Man Swanson is gonna get paid
Didlz
He would do extremely well to get even a third of what Correra got.
YourDreamGM
I think he will get at least half. Only way he gets a third os if he does a 1 year opt out. 200 million won’t surprise me at all.
YourDreamGM
What’s Swanson’s market? LA is waiting on ruling. Atlanta won’t over pay. Chicago probably wants him but who is going to bid him up? Or can they be tricked into bidding against themselves? Minn has interest but how much will they spend? Need Yankees to get thirsty for him. Or Colorado to get crazy.
.
Halo’s ready to scoop him up now!
LonnieB
So glad this wasn’t the Mets.
Monix
Me too and I’m a Mets fan. I like Correa but that bad back won’t age well.
bravesnation nc
Insane!!!!!!!!!!!! These deals are out of control
rhswanzey
What a stupid sport this has turned into. Lol
padam
Well that happened fast.
hit23man
13?! Damn. Carlos with the fat bank
.
I can’t wait for some of the gem posts I know are coming.
And here weeee…GO!!!
VirginiaGiant
Yeah all these genius GM’s on here, posting from their Boy Cave
MTG
When I first read this I though it said Carlos Rodon and was like what the hell. I wonder where they move Crawford, they have JD Davis for 3rd so maybe Crawford plays 2nd?
GO1962
The GIants can use Crawford as Correa’s bat boy.
VirginiaGiant
That’s the plan
gravel
3rd base. Crawford has the arm and defense for it.
Pete'sView
MTG — Actually, I think Villar plays 3B, Correa ss (obviously), Crawford 2b (if he hits). Crawford’s range will really be valuable with the new rules (no shifts).
claude raymond
I believe they’ll platoon Pederson and Davis at DH. Also, Davis does play leftfield. Crawford at 2b kicks out Estrada and they want middle D to improve so I think Estrada stays at 2b. Crawford still has a gun, so I think 3b. Pete, your high on Villar, as am i,but I’m not sure he’s ready.
websoulsurfer
Giants already said that if they signed Correa, that Crawford had agreed to play 3B.
aragon
wow!
Tacoshells
Holy #####
Catuli Carl
13 years?! Lol Jed, I don’t blame you.
Dansby, how does 7 sound?
Moneyballer
As a twins fan, it hurts!
ohyeadam
It’s okay brother. Elvis and Farmer will do fine
Av8torr45
13 years? Sheesh
Dbacks44
Wow! making up for Judge. 13 years. why not sign him to social security comes
websoulsurfer
If they thought that MLB would let them sign him to a 20-year deal, they would to lower the AAV.
hardawg
Wow 13 years! This contract won’t be that great in a handful of years.
VonPurpleHayes
Nice to see the Giants finally spend.
davemlaw
The jury is in Farhan, you can stay.
gravel
You should probably keep this behind closed doors boss.
.
Do we know if MLB is going to Veto it yet?
Manfred’s playing with the balls
Manfred’s finger is hovering over the big red button right now.
If he didn’t like 14 years, I wonder how he feels about 13.
I guess Correa is a lot younger than Judge
Yankee Clipper
Manfred was sidetracked inserting four different baseballs into all the baseball crates for ‘23.
.
Clip, next season the “Goldilocks” ball is going to be strapped to a scram jet!
websoulsurfer
Why would they even consider nixing it? It takes him from his age 28 season in 2023 to his age 40 season in 2035. Way too many players have played to age 40 for the league to justify not signing off on this deal.
.
Why do you think they were going to nix the Judge to SD deal?
websoulsurfer
I don’t think they would have. Little justification for doing so. Judge would have been 45 in the last season of that deal. Correa will be 40 in the last season of his deal. Verlander is 40 and signed to play for at least 2 and possibly 3 years.
bubs13
Here come the Giants
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
Where are they going?
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
You’re*
Rishi
What do you have to say about ownership spending money now Giants fans???
disadvantage
That crowd is suddenly very, very quiet.
Chipsss
I’m not quiet, I’m shocked, but happy. They bucked decades of reputation today, which should help them convince other FAs down the line that they can be trusted. Now, time to push more chips in and get Rodon. This team still needs a lot. But Correa is now in place to be a piece of the foundation and that at least appeases this fan for now. Not spending money would have been unconscionable.
Rishi
Decades of reputation when they had one of the higher payrolls nearly every year. Go try being a Ray’s fan for a week. Seriously.
disadvantage
@chips – you don’t seem to be part of the problem then. There’s a vocal minority (at least I hope it’s a minority) on here that complains every. single. time. the Giants make a small roster move, conflating it to mean that the Giants will never spend any money ever (ignoring that the team was very bad and that it would’ve made no sense whatsoever to sign a pricey free agent to a mediocre-at-best team). Those are the fans that have been awfully quiet.
skip 2
Dam 23 years!
gravel
Need an eye doctor skip 2? nei.nih.gov/learn-about-eye-health/healthy-vision/…
dirkg
1) Glad he’s not a Met.
2) Holy sh&t that’s a long contract (yes I know to lower AAV).
Maverick12
Lifelong Giants fan…this makes me gag. I don’t want this cheater
and before I get any losers coming at me with Bonds, I never liked him either
Yankee Clipper
BIG difference between Bonds and Correa though. And, I’m no Bonds fan either.
Maverick12
Well they are pretty similar if you compare Correa’s big-headeded ego to Bonds’ actual huge noggin…
VonPurpleHayes
Respect. I feel the same way about Correa, and I was worried my team would pick him up. And to be honest, for me it’s less about the cheating, and more about how he handled himself after the cheating. Correa is a superstar talent and will put up some great numbers, but sometimes, the fan in you just doesn’t want to root for a guy.
jjd002
Von, he handled it fine. Eventually you nutjobs need to get over it. It would be annoying to have to apologized hundreds of times for something most of the league was doing.
VonPurpleHayes
He definitely did not handle it fine. And it wasn’t about apologies…etc. He immediately went to the defensive and played and interviewed with a chip on his shoulder, cursing out any and all who criticized him or his teammates. The guy got a ring behind a huge scandal. It’s not like there was some great injustice done to him. Just compare Altuve to Correa post scandal.
dirkg
@VonPurpleHayes, you hit the nail on the head for me as well. I was fortunate to have played the great game of baseball for many years and now have coached it for 10 years. Integrity is part of the game. Baseball fans are a passionate bunch. We care about Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, the Curse of the Bambino, etc. It’s what sets baseball apart IMO.
Many of us (not all, but many) give a sh#t about the Astros and their smug attitudes about cheating out a World Series. Many of us wanted (and still do) to punch Alex Bregman’s smug face and to wipe Carlos Correa’s pencil mustache off. It still pisses me off. And everyone, fans and players, associated with that debacle are going to have to live with that.
Sure, make your millions boys. Live it up. Glad you’re not on my team. I’m sure you don’t care. But I do…and I know many others do as well.
Pete'sView
Maverick12 — Get over it. It’s only going to ruin the game for you, no one else. Just enjoy.
Maverick12
Sadly it does ruin the game somewhat. I do not enjoy watching cheaters prosper
Yankee Clipper
Pete: I can say this, if he were picked up by the Yankees I would acknowledge his contributions and root for him to do well because of the team, similar to how I rooted for A-Rod, but disliked him (obviously this is before the PED stuff came out).
I think it’ll be the same with you guys. Bottom of the 9th, Oracle Park, GM5, and Correa hits a walk-off – yeah, every single Giants fan is going nuts over that, even if they don’t like him. And I don’t blame them because we all would too.
zeuz1
That’s a lot of years to commit to someone who’s 28!
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Better than Bogaerts though
Pickle_Britches
Dam right I don’t like his away numbers
websoulsurfer
Same as Bogaerts. Their contracts take both through their age 40 seasons.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
More peak years of Correa. Bogaerts is already in decline, if you look at his underlying stats
YourDreamGM
Years aren’t a big deal. Free agents are focused on total money security. More years allow you to keep the aav down and beat the competing offers. I wouldn’t have given this contract but the years aren’t what concerns me.
User 2079935927
All the Giants fans in here that talked crap about Correa and the Astros are changing their Avatars and Handles, And they will come in here bestowing love upon Correa and the Giants. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!
JayRyder
I’m one for Sure. Hell yeah we got him Now !!!
gravel
I’ll assume you meant “all the Giants fans in here who.”
I appreciate the signing.
Yankee Clipper
Look, first, BIG congratulations to Giants fans. Slow offseason but you undoubtedly landed one of the premiere FAs and future of your team. He’s well-liked by younger players (see Jeremy Peña’s interview about Correa’s mentorship) and he’s a true competitor.
However, I can’t help but wonder if they were bidding against themselves on this, unless MN came forward with a huge offer. There was really nobody else (was the Mets thing true, perhaps?).
Well, your team wasn’t really much improved yesterday, but regardless of how you feel about Correa (I don’t like him), you can’t deny he will improve your ball club.
The Dodger-Giants games are going to be awesome! And you guys come to Yankee Stadium the first series too, so you’ll hear our love for him!
big boi
13 years? Damn. Tbh I’m just glad that the Mets didn’t get him lol
willthethrill
Wow… didn’t see this one coming.
collarboners
That’s…quite a contract. But they needed to make a splash and cannon balled into this pool
zeuz1
That’s a lot of years to commit to someone who’s 28.
Jaysfan1981
13, 350.
Vetoed because manipulation?? Seems like a similar structure to the rumored Judge / SD rumors
cookmeister 2
Except he’s 3-4 years younger than judge
Jaysfan1981
Still takes him to over 40 at contracts end, wasn’t that the leagues problem with the Judge hypothetical deal
websoulsurfer
If Judge signed the 14-year deal SD offered, he would have been 45 at the end of it. Correa will be 40 in the final season of his. A 40-year-old player just signed a 3-year deal with a $43.3 million AAV. What possible justification would there be for nixing Correa’s deal?
Jaysfan1981
Justification wouldn’t be hard.
What if Correa is offered something that beats Turners contract by a few million? It’ll depend if someone offered him 10/315 and he turned it down for a few extra years and a little bump to “help” his team sign/extend/trade more players
Basically circumventing the true meaning and purpose of the cap
Now if it was an “organic” negotiation where multiple teams had similar offers and a year separated them or a million or two in total monies etc, ok….
But now what about Bo. Can the Jays say “bet” (kids taught me that) and go 18 over 333 and keep it under 20AAV LOOOOLZ.
Does BO say no? I dunno a third of a Billion is hard to turn down
websoulsurfer
There is no cap.
How do you prove that they are trying to circumvent the CBT threshold when it’s entirely plausible that Correa plays through his age 40 season? You can’t.
Bo Bichette is 3 years younger than Correa. If the Jays wanted to extend him a 16-year deal, there is nothing MLB could say about it. Its plausible that he can play that long.
.
Websoul, so you don’t think the Judge to SD deal should have been vetoed if it came to fruition?
websoulsurfer
No. There have been players that continued to play though age 44-45. Not many, but enough that an arbitrator for the National Labor Relations Board would have ruled in favor of the union when they brought a grievance for the deal being nixed.
PinstripedPride
It goes without saying that most players aren’t machines like Verlander is. Does anyone really think that Judge would even contemplate playing on the field when he’s 45?
.
I don’t feel all warm and fuzzy about Correa on the field at 41 either.
scottn59c
He can spend the last couple of seasons in the dugout, banging the trash can.
websoulsurfer
Thats great, because his last season of this contract will be his age 40 season.
websoulsurfer
By then they will be hitting a button and a speaker in the players batting helmet will tell them what the pitch is.
Kewldood69
Cheater till the end. Booooooooo!
baseballencyclopedia
As a Giants fan, not thrilled. We need power hitters. Correa isn’t going to carry an offense, and he’s going to hit for less power in SF. That’s a lot of money for a lot of years to a guy who’s probably not going to earn have of it.
Pete'sView
baseballencyclopedia — He bats third with Joc and Mitch after him. Giants will score some runs. And don’t sleep on Villar.
claude raymond
FYI, in 2021 Haniger hit 39 hrs. Hanigers 2021 flyball spraychart when overlayed on Oracle park added 4 hrs. It favors right handed hitters. Burks Kent Aurilia etc had success. They led NL in HRs in 2021. Everyone needs to stop the “bad hitters park” delusion. The key is having good right handed hitters which has been the problem.
5TUNT1N
Not to mention the parks dimensions have changed and if MLB picks a live ball it plays loud in that park. It’s no longer the pain in the butt home run park it was.
SFBay314
Terrible
Attystephenadams
As a Mets fan, I never believed the Borass rumour that they were interested in him. Glad to see that the Giants were happy to top the Lindor contract for a less talented player. I understand how all the teams are extending the contracts to lower the AAV, but this is a stretch.
dopt
I bet he is hurt and doesn’t play ~ 5 out of the 13 years or misses 650 games
VirginiaGiant
I’ll bet you post this a 3rd time?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Wow! The years are amazing. I assumed it would be like 10 or 11, but 13??? Waiting for Manfred to veto this and see another strike
websoulsurfer
This contract goes through Correa’s age 40 season. A 40 year old just signed a $43.3 million AAV deal and MLB okayed it. What possible reason could Manfred give for nixing this deal?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
There was an article about a team offering Judge 14 years 400 million, and he said no. I think it was the Padres. The MLB office would have supposedly rejected that one.
websoulsurfer
It was the Padres. It was speculation that the commissioner would have rejected it. If he had rejected it, he would have lost that fight in front of the arbitrator. Instead, Judge decided he wanted to finish his career with the team he started it with. More power to him. Classy move.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Yeah. I can’t see the commissioner having any legal authority to tell 2 parties they can’t sign a type of contract that hundreds of thousands and maybe even millions have previously signed. It’s not some illegal gambling contract or anything.
1bertu
Fire Farhan or whoever is the new GM
YourDreamGM
Owner made this call.
giantwarrioras49ersraiders
Thank you
WideWorldofSports
bad contract
dopt
I bet he is hurt and doesn’t play ~ 5 out of the 13 years or misses 800 games total
jhomeslice
I’m surprised Correa didn’t hold out for 14 or 15 years. I mean, what’s he gonna do for money after he’s 42?
websoulsurfer
He will have been retired 2 years by then and will be spending his millions. What will you be doing at 42?
yetipro
So begins the cratering production process
duhawk83
Great the Cubs missed on another targeted Free Agent. I really don’t like Jed Hoyer.
Cleon Jones
Correa gets personalalized dugout drum kit, and premier bongos.
ArianaGrandSlam
MLB is right in the bubble economy. Can’t wait to see it pop.
websoulsurfer
Why would it? Revenue is guaranteed to go up for at least the next 5 years.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Yikes! That’s..umm..well..I’ll just say it..freaking INSANE..
bravesnation nc
Giants are still a 3rd place team in the NL West even with Carlos. Multiple holes to fill.
JeffreyChungus
Try fourth place
greenbaygiants
Farhan did a thing!
fred-3
Bryce Harper gave the Phillies a discount
VonPurpleHayes
Right, but when Harper signed everyone bashed the Phillies like everyone is bashing the Giants now. It’s very possible that this contract looks like a steak in 3 years tims when average players are getting 25M a year.
VonPurpleHayes
lol steal not steak. I must be hungry.
Moneyballer
He’s getting paid 8 million less next season but he’s locked himself into a ludacris 13 year guarantee with a no trade clause. Clearly this was the deal he always wanted but did not get last year. The giants swinging and missing on Aaron Judge was a huge factor here. Correa literally puts up HALF the offense of Judge yet is being paid as if that weren’t the case. Spend just to spend.
jjd002
But he also plays twice the defense judge does at a much more valuable position. Really tough to compare an OF with a SS when it comes to contracts.
Chipsss
The Yankees didn’t pay judge with the expectation of anything close to his 11 war year. They’ll be happy with 5-7 war, and the Giants will be very happy with 5 war from correa for the next 5 years
websoulsurfer
Which player do you think produced 39.5 WAR? Which do you think produced 37.0 WAR? How about 4.9 per season or 5.3 per season?
Judge has produced 24% more on offense by OPS+ and wRC+. Not double or even close to double.
Correa is 3 years younger and getting paid 67.5% of the money Judge is getting paid each year.
JeffreyChungus
I get the feeling he’ll waive that no-trade clause real quick
bravegator
Your up swanson
Gwynning
I am?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
So now the Rangers sign Gallo for 10 years and 75 million with 100 million in incentives for playing time and performance? That seems about right. That soft threshold
YankeesBleacherCreature
So it’s a $385M/14 contract and Minnesota waived him after one year.
Cleon Jones
The Mn contract was 3/105 with two optouts. Thats 16/455 total.
disadvantage
@cleon
Right, he used those opt outs, so @creature only counted the first year of the MIN contract.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
If we are going off that, we can say Arod’s opt-out clause in his first contract didn’t matter and he got 20 years and 527 million dollars (10 252 and then 10 275). That isn’t reasonable.
websoulsurfer
1/35 with Minnesota plus 13/350 with the Giants = 14/385. That is just a touch better than the 10/275 everyone was saying he should have taken from the Tigers.
websoulsurfer
I was being sarcastic. $110 million is a huge difference.
bravegator
Your up now swanson
VonPurpleHayes
Get Rodon back too. Then the NLW gets a bit interesting again.
JayRyder
Good Deal. This what it Takes. Now go out and Compete !!!
niel.marshal
This contract making Bryce Harper 330M for 13 years looks more worthed
ArianaGrandSlam
“Well honey, that’s just nuts.” – Lester Burnham –
vikingbluejay67
Good player, but overpaid.
Ann Porkins
Thank goodness. That’s a buttload of years and money, but ~$26M annually isn’t the kind of money that will hamstring them as bad as it seems. I’m curious to see how the deal is structured… hopefully it’s front loaded so they’re not paying. 40-year-old Correa $30-something million
Correa will plug into the heart of the order and push guys like Wilmer Flores and JD Davis into role players rather than regulars. They still could use one legitimate bat in the middle of the order, but there’s not much left in free agency. Benintendi would be a bit of an upgrade, but he doesn’t bring the thump they need to support Correa, Haniger, Joc, and the revolving door of decent platoons.
I think it’s best to stand pat (other than minor additions, like a fifth outfielder or buy-low corner infielder). They can see how Crawford plays at third, if LaMonte Wade Jr or Luis Gonzalez can earn some playing time, if Joey Bart can build off his solid finish to last season, etc.
They can always swing a trade for an impact bat at the deadline if that’s the missing piece, and if they’re out of the playoff race they can sell some pieces and throw money at the 2023 free agent class
websoulsurfer
As of today it looks like we will see.
LF – Wade or Joc
CF – Yaz Jr
RF – Haniger
3B – Crawford
SS – Correa
2B – Estrada
1B – Davis
C – Bart
I don’t think the Giants are done. There are reasonably priced upgrades to be had out there on FA market and in trade.
BuJoBi
That lineup doesn’t scare many teams
claude raymond
web, I don’t think Pederson plays D this year and Flores will be primary first baseman. Davis’ D is suspect. I believe Pederson/Davis platoon at DH (you left out DH). And Slater/Wade platoon in RF. So haniger Yaz slater/Wade Crawford Correa Estrada Flores Bart. What do you think web? that’s just position, not order.
websoulsurfer
Purposely left out DH because I have no idea who will play it. In the press conference announcing his signing, they said that they expected Joc would play in the field. Taking them at their word. He will be the most expensive platoon player in baseball.
I think Haniger will play in RF because that is a huge field in right and he will see some time at DH. Local boy coming home. Born, raised, went to high school and college and still lives in the Bay Area.
Not a bad team. Somehow, I don’t think Farhan is done.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Hahahahaha he doesn’t break any records, his AAV ain’t all that, he’s gonna be an albatross the last 3-5 years of this deal.
He’s actually getting paid what he’s actually worth. Glad nobody capitulated to his ego.
He got his mega contract so, you know, good for him.
Essentially 14 years/$385.1M or $27.5M annually for 14 years, overall. Which is actually what he’s worth.
But this thing will look ugly in about 7 or 8 years, with 5-6 years and $150M or so left on the deal.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Sure but he still got more than Seager/Lindor/Tatis and the 2nd largest free agent contract ever. None of these players get paid what they’re worth. They’ll all look ugly sooner rather than later, even Judge, but I’d argue yes, a team did “capitulate to his ego.” Just glad it wasn’t the Dodgers
Moneyballer
How could this go south? He’s only being paid full price through his age 41 season. Read that back. This deal is pure garbage.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Are you high? Correa guaranteed himself $350M no matter how you try to spin it. Accept reality for what it really is as that IS his worth along with the risks.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Not through his age 41 season. Only way this was worth it is if it’s front loaded and the Giants are indifferent on the CBT impact.
YankeesBleacherCreature
You keep drumming up these FA contract proposals and structures that are clearly biased towards ownership. They are not grounded in reality and it’s a futile exercise. Not a single contract signed thus far is remotely close to your imagination’s.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
How so?
YankeesBleacherCreature
Players want guaranteed money. The only way they take less today is to position themselves to potentially earn more aggregate guaranteed later, like Correa. Your quasi-proposals are primarily short-term and inclusive of their prime years where their greatest values lie. Players aren’t going to sign off on that leaving money off the table for their decline years. They also want to remain in the game as long as possible on their own terms and have all the leverage during contract buyout negotiations. Players like Kershaw and Bauer still in their primes accepting short, big AAV contracts are very rare.
websoulsurfer
Age 40 season. Use your toes.
JackPine
Ask the tigers how much fun that is
dmbphils27
At least he didn’t go to the mets…
HalosHeavenJJ
And I thought the Giants/Dodgers rivalry couldn’t get more fun.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Glad he went to a Dodger rival. Now, he can be hated even more and Dodger fans will continue to bang the trash cans when he’s in town. Should be fun. All we need is for the Dodgers to bring back Joe Kelly.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Kelly sucks. Good troll. Not so good pitcher
Jimbo_Jones
Great point those will be some loud ass games…if you listen carefully you can already the taunting chants
rev-olution
Surprise… Surprise…
Even Gomer Pyle would’ve known the Giants DESPERATELY needed to pull off a major deal like this.
Mitch Haniger and Ross Stripling was not going to appease the fan base and losing out on Arson Judge put the front office on the hot seat (pun is definitely intended)
This deal makes Boras happy as his pockets get further stuffed, but Correa in SF is not the second coming of the Posey era.
The only thing that this clears up is dousing the “Uncle Stevie adding Correa under the Flushing Christmas Tree storyline” and leaves Swanson still needing a home (is an ATL homecoming in the works?).
Also, now that this shoe has dropped, Rodon is likely soon the follow. The Bombers is a good fit and Boras needs to pay for the office holiday party.
SupremeZeus
The ownership game in mlb is changing and the tightfisted will be forced to spend or sell. Many will be calling their investment bankers in the new year.
JackPine
Ugh, don’t introduce baseball to any middle eastern oil tycoons
VonPurpleHayes
Honestly, it’s only a matter of time. Baseball will go the way of FIFA.
Failbot
Does this sound like desperation? And what does this mean for Dansby? If he was upset about not making as much as younger players with the Braves… How’s this going to play with teams offering him contracts? I like him but 8 to 13 years?
mlbdodgerfan2015
Swanson has the least accomplished bat out of the four, although arguably the best glove. I think he gets the smallest contract out of the four. Not necessarily bad given what the other 3 got. He’s had two of his best offensive seasons in his last two years but his upside is lower than the other 3.
8791Slegna
Should make the Dodger-Giant rivalry more interesting. Does the trash can come with Correa?
sufferforsnakes
Not worth it. Then again, no player is worth these insane huge, long term contracts.
YourDreamGM
Harper and Pujols were. They brought in a lot of revenue. Harpers bat worth it. Machado is working out. Both Arods were good. The 1st fantastic. Nolan is looking fine.
antsmith7
This deal only makes sense if the Giants are signing or trading for another star.
YourDreamGM
How so?
LetTheGoodTimesROFL
ROFL
dennymagnet
Best arm at SS in baseball, new rules with the shift, he will pay dividends.
Crawford to 3B.
Expect another power type bat coming. Giants aren’t finished yet.
Stripling signing was slick.
Manea will like Oracle Park.
Haniger class act.
Pederson versus RH pitching one of the best.
Selah Rick 2
Haniger and Correa both on the bench with injuries for most of the season. Bank it!
bluesteele
Except these are all mediocre players! Where’s the elite star? You are a supreme optimist my friend. 90 wins at best.
dennymagnet
90 wins is a playoff team.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I think the Padres, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies and Atlanta (teams not listed in particular order) will all win 91 or more. So, if the Giants do win 90 games, they still could miss the 3rd WC.
dennymagnet
Elite players…ask the Dodgers who got
Mookie
Trea Turner
Freddie Freeman
Bauer
Scherzer
$$$$$$
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Haniger and Stripling were smart signings
Pederson and Correa were overpays – the question is who were the Giants bidding against who would have gone over $300 million, rather pay $300 million/10 years than $350 million/13 years
Manaea will be a bust
Dodgers fans will hate this signing for next five years and love it for the eight years thereafter
websoulsurfer
4 teams went $300 million or more and two of those went $330 million. The Giants offered this amount of dollars back at the Winter Meetings. They just had to convince Correa to allow them the years to bring the AAV own to where they can add other star players.
Dodger fans will hate this deal for as long as Correa is a Giant because Dodger fans hate the Giants.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Dodger fans will hate this deal for five or six years when Correa provide surplus value to his contract, but Dodgers fans will enjoy the last seven or eight years when this contract is a burden to the Giants. Expect the same for last three-four years of the deals for Trea and Bogaerts.
goob
“Manaea will be a bust.”
In the Hall of Fame?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Nope, but good one.
VermonsterSD
Best arm? Tatis and a few others beg to differ, according to statcast……lol
.
Doesn’t O’Neil Cruz hold that distinction now?
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
Shortstops with the highest max arm strength, 2022
1. Oneil Cruz (Pirates): 97.9 mph
2. Geraldo Perdomo (D-backs): 96.7 mph
3. Ha-Seong Kim (Padres): 95.2 mph
4. Carlos Correa (Twins): 95.0 mph
5. Didi Gregorius (free agent): 94.7 mph
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Nice! Dodgers-Giants rivalry about to get even more heated hahahahaha. I like it!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Exactly! Fun! When Correa is at the plate the fans can hold up signs with asterisks!
claude raymond
Asterisks? Why do so many people think the 2020 60game Dodgers didn’t earn their title? Everyone had an even playing field. Oh, by the way, everyone had access to the replay monitors in the clubhouses. They all stole signs. The Astros just used a lame way to relay them.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
All of 2020 is a giant asterisk now and forevermore. An aberration that should never have happened. The COVID Tournament of Champions.
BStrowman
Correa wanted $350 because it’s more than Lindor or any other SS got. Took him 13 years but he got it.
americaspastime
$350 mil for a dude who has never had a 30/100 season. Wow. Giants are…special.
Diggydugler
13 years deals are so silly.
bluepelotas
UNBELIEVABLE! Farhan got desperate after missing out on multiple free agents they missed?
gravel
Naw. This kind of contract if fairly standard this off-season.
Viveleempireevil
Giants now acting like the girl whos been rejected by a number of suitors and then she decides to marry the uber driver. Uhhhhh….
Steve(shs22)
Correa at age 40 for Giants ?!?!
A 1B men or dh
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Vive
Misogynistic and classist.
Self-identified incels have used the internet to find anonymous support.
gravel
Try again champ. Correa is one of the top free agents in this year’s class. This deal should not be surprising.
disadvantage
What does that comparison even mean?
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Sadly, I’m never that Uber driver
chicagofan1978
This will end up being the worst contract ever, I guarantee it
sergefunction
Not the worst ever, not compared with Miguel Cabrera’s, regardless that it is still in force.
Son allowed dad’s Cabrera deal to ruin the Tiger franchise. That alone makes it the worst ever.
YourDreamGM
Miggy was bad. Not as bad as Ellsberry. That was just so obvious non sustainable production. Even worse the Sale extension. Obvious TJ surgery was coming. Strasburg Rendon awful.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
Very hard to beat Chris Davis’s contract. Him, Kawhi Leonard, and John Wall are tied for the biggest bums in sports
Luke Strong
These long term deals are ridiculous. SF has to win another WS to make this deal good. They’re going to have to eat at least a few bad years on this contract to get out from it. Correa isn’t a big draw either. I think this is the worst FA deal this winter.
Josh5890
the man bet on himself and won. grab the bag while you can
skip55
dude sold him self short. in 13 years top players will be making 75mil
Rsox
That came out of Left Field. I guess the Giants were hell bent on landing a big name player this winter regardless of who it was.
Pete'sView
Rsox — “Out of left field?” Not at all. From all the pundits, the two position players the Giants wanted from the start were Judge and Correa. They got one of them.
websoulsurfer
Giants were only ever in on two big name guys and they have been in on both since the beginning of the offseason.
Judge decided to go back to the only organization he has ever played for and finish his career there instead of taking the same money to go to the Giants.
Correa signed with the Giants
hopper15
It really didn’t come out of left field. You just weren’t paying attention. They met with him at the winter meetings.
Saint Nick
This has to be the worst contract given out so far this offseason.
Rsox
That award goes to Xander Bogaerts and the San Diego Padres
YourDreamGM
Yep at least the Giants didn’t pay for shift defense and fenway hitting.
websoulsurfer
Padres paid for no shift hitting and defense with Machado flanking him on the left side of the infield instead of Devers.
They will get their money’s worth and more for at least the next 5-6 seasons.
YourDreamGM
Neither of those increase his value. Shift isn’t going to help right hand hitters. Instead of playing directly behind 2b they will play 1 foot or 1 inch to the right of it.
websoulsurfer
It will help Bogaerts in 11% of his at bats. At bats where an extreme shift was used against him, he put the ball in play, and he hit it less than 220 ft. 2nd most of all RHB. About 8 more hits.
Doesn’t sound like much but that would have moved his BA to .320 last season.
goob
Somebody owes me a turkey sandwich!
(And if Swanson signs before Jan. 1st, I want cranberry sauce too.)
bryan c
Very nice get for the Giants here. Best in class SS. Way too many years again but whatever, that seems to be the thing now.
Suppose this means Swanson to Cubs. Anyone read the report about the Braves entertaining offers on Fried? Check out Bleacher Report and MLB.com. Would be hilarious if Cohen signs Swanson just to mess with them but seriously, he would have no home there. I kid, I kid. But the dudes who gave me crap about the Mets rotation may want to hold their collective breath that this is a nothing rumor covered by two of the most reputable sites around.
Android Dawesome
I’m not too sure this means Swanson to the Cubs. A 10+ commitment is really stupid. If they do it that’s out of desperation
bryan c
Do not disagree but the SS market is running out of suitors. Cubbies need a splash. Dodgers seen content to stay under the tax this year and reset. BoSox are a mess. I guess Preller may throw away more cash but really, who is left? Rumors swirling about Fried being traded so unless a total smoke screen that fooled BR and MLB.com I think they are out too. Not many takers left for the career year guy. Again, sort of joking but almost think Cohen may send an order just to be a thorn here. Otherwise I say Cubs or a short term deal a la Correa last year
Android Dawesome
Yea, I 100% agree with what you’re saying. “Cubbies need a splash” gets my thumbs up
Android Dawesome
These ridiculous contracts make me think of Dr Evil saying “one million dollars”. At this point I’d prefer him signing with the Twins. You’re ruining baseball.
Mario93
Paying him, until he’s 40.. that’s wonderful.
Moneyballer
In all honesty, I hate this deal but I would love it had my team made it. Twins miss out on their White Whale but they got to take him to the prom for one season, too bad the night didn’t end with Correa wanting more! Twins never put out.
YourDreamGM
A+ for the twins. Can’t believe nobody would beat that contract. Once they had them they put a solid effort into taking advantage of that 1 magical opportunity.
Castiglione
Inflation definitely affecting the mlb salaries.
Not a terrible deal almost fair considering aav, big market, and the hope it actually might bring this franchise of enticing future big names. At least the Giants now have 1 player that can be expected to be in the lineup essentially everyday if healthy.
YourDreamGM
Big names will flock to SF to play with the cheater who knocked them out of the playoffs.
Pickle_Britches
So in 5 years we will be looking at this as one of the worst signings in Giants history. I would of rathered sign swansby for 4 years and JD on 1 year maybe 2. Must be desperate for a medicore talent. Should of just signed Turner and Rodon and said heck with it
Pete'sView
Pickle_Britches — Takes two to tango. Or as the Stones would say, “You can’t always get what you want.”
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Pickle
So, you think this is a bad dill?
.
Manny, SF seems to think it’s pretty kosher.
YourDreamGM
4 years 200 million for swansby?
websoulsurfer
10/200 for Swanson.
.
If the Dodgers get him DreamGM I will be referring to him as Swansby from now on. If they don’t, I will still be reffering to him as Swansby from now on.
spooky
13? Who ever thought to make a deal that long. Farhan pulled his pants down
FrontOfficeStan
My favorite part of these terrible contracts are the people intoxicated with copium explaining that it’s really not that bad because in 10 years there will be worse contracts. Would have been funny to see the mets land him though.
Pete Ladd’s glasses
You are spot on. The apologists are delusional. The market will not keep going on. In fact, this oncoming recession will make it go just the opposite. Either way, this will not age well. It is literally impossible. Time cannot be beat and that is the driving force.
But by all means, convince yourselves this is a good deal. Correa could easily struggle to hit 10 homeruns in this park.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If you mean that in a single season, Correa could hit 9 HRs at Oracle and 12 on the road, yes that seems reasonable.
Pete Ladd’s glasses
Spin it however you want. He still will struggle to hit 20 HR’s in a season playing half the games in that park. Average power at best. Decent OBP, but not great. Plus, he’s slow. That’s now…in his prime. SF is locked into that for 13 years!
Cleon Jones
“Whew” said the Cubs and the Twins, that was a close one.
gfan
Boom. Farhan caught a big fish. Really could care less about the spend or years. Not my money.
Just glad to be in competition. All signings / non signings this off season work for me. Still room for another bat.
Let’s Go !
larkraxm
The market will continue to go up. The AAV of this contract will be nothing in 5-6 years, forget about year 10-13. In 13 years, 26.9 million will be a signing bonus for draft picks.
❤️ MuteButton
Laughable contracts being handed out this year
SupremeZeus
Ohtani is turgid 2nite.
Wilmer the Thrillmer
It was going to take at least 10/325 to sign him. Essentially all the Giants did was asd 3/25 to lower the AAV and most importantly – get it done.
I’d certainly rather have Correa than Seager. Correa is a plus, plus defender and Seager is an average fielder at best. Seager signed for 10/325, so the Giants went just 3/25 beyond that.
2023 will be Correa’s age 28 season. If the Giants get 7 or 8 very good years out of Correa they’ll be happy.
It’s not nearly as sexy as a Judge signing, but the Giants would have had to go to at least 10/400 to get Judge and Correa is way younger and will possibly age better.
YourDreamGM
All the mega ss deals are bad. Correa is better than most of them.
Milwaukee-2208
Clearly a desperate move on the part of the Giants who watched every big free agent pass on their team. Disgusting overpay. They better be getting 2-3 more huge impact bats because at the moment, Correa is getting walked 4 times a game. Rest of their lineup is no better than a highschool squad
Pete'sView
Well, with Joc and Mitch after him, the Giants have more punch than you give them credit. And Villar and Yaz. This could be a very dangerous lineup. I just want to know who leads off.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Better than what Milwaukee says maybe not as optimistic as Pete though.
YourDreamGM
Off-season isn’t over yet. Pitching is more important.
YourDreamGM
For 350 I want a bigger star that isn’t hated and has more power.
YankeesBleacherCreature
That Arson guy!
YourDreamGM
That Arson guy even though older would sell a lot more tickets than Correa. Probably would have brought in 60 million in the first 1 to 2 years.
Pete'sView
Well then, keep looking.
Try hard Cubs fan 2
So Aaron Judge’s hypothetical 14yr/400 million contract wouldn’t have been approved,but this deal will? Someone explain, Judge’s deal would have been for 1 more year and $50 million dollars more.
YankeesBleacherCreature
There is a 3.5 years age gap between Judge and Correa. Judge’s hypo deal would’ve taken him though his age 44 season. No one can conceivably believe that he can still hit 50 homers then, maybe 10-15 with 350 K’s.
Try hard Cubs fan 2
Thanks for the reply, that makes better sense
Brew’88
A buzzer went off and it was time for Giants to put a lid on the negotiation. Many will talk trash can Correa prove them wrong? This signing was a steal. Two thumbs up. I mean fingers.
jjd002
I hope you aren’t a Brewers fan talking trash? If it weren’t for Bellinger, Yellich would be the largest recipient of the sign stealing era.
Brew’88
I’m not. I brew beer
mlbtrsks
1st base coach, years 10-13
ChiTowner
72 yrs old and as much as I love baseball I hope the whole league goes bankrupt. . Common sense is out the window Hope this guy gets hurt in spring training. .
joepanikatthedisco
Don’t you like seeing players on the same team for long periods of time? I prefer that to the 90s and 00s where most star players changed teams every other year.
YourDreamGM
Wishing injury on a stranger. Aren’t you a beautiful person.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I don’t wish injuries to any of these guys. I do wish for them to strike out with the game on the line.
Chipsss
I feel bad for your grandkids !
websoulsurfer
A little bit of insight. The number was hammered out at the Winter Meetings. 4 teams offered close to that much. The hang up was pride.
After getting four other teams that offered over $300 million, two of which that offered 10/330, Correa wanted 10/350 so he could have the highest AAV by an infielder. The Giants offered 14 years so they could have an AAV that gave them the flexibility to sign other players this offseason while staying under the CBT threshold. After this signing, the Giants are right at $200 million towards the CBT.
In the end Correa agreed to take the most money ever for an infielder. Only Trout, Judge, and Betts have received larger contracts.
More to come from the Giants.
Edp007
In San Francisco the hang up seems to often be Pride
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Jane Austen wants to know if your post is Pride or Prejudice?
Joe It All
So many people on here keep saying these contracts aren’t going to age well but it’s not true. Teams are getting superstar caliber players for 25-27 million a year because they’re giving them longer contracts. By the time these guys hit their decline phase you’re going to see players with half their talent making the same amount of money. The way baseball salaries inflate you can’t look at that 27 million a year in 2030 the same way you see it in 2023. It’s ridiculous money but that’s all sports contracts anymore. If you want to blame anybody for athletes making what they do, blame us. Without fans, networks aren’t clamoring for tv ratings and giving billion dollar contracts to broadcast games. We have seen baseball with no fans in the stadium. If that were permanent the game wouldn’t last.
Edp007
Bingo Joe, when Correa is 40 , FA top shortstops will be paid 50 mill AAV
VermonsterSD
Absolutely. As a Padres fan, I’m only looking at the next 5-6 years for Bogaerts, not years 7-11. By the time you hit those years, it won’t look like such a bad deal.
Try hard Cubs fan 2
I commented on other post that he would get $341.1 million and somebody responded blah blah… he won’t because of negative reputation or some other bs
Shawn W.
Over 13 years, he gets $20 million more than Bryce Harper, though he does not hit as well as Harper. Premium defensive position, though.
YourDreamGM
Inflation
Doral Silverthorn
lolGiants
No Salary Cap For You! (Come Back One Year)
As if Dodger fans didn’t have have enough reasons already to dislike the giants…
youngliam
I know its not the best value for a guy but the Giants really need solid guys like this on the roster if they want to attract future free agents
YourDreamGM
Offering the most money will attract free agents. What superstar made Correa choose the giants?
George Vasios
Farhan Zaid: Hey Pete, you know that money we offered Aaron Judge? Let’s just give most of it to Carlos Correa instead.
Pete Putila: Great idea Boss!
hoof hearted
Cano, Hosmer, Corbin, Strasburg, Heyward, Chris Davis, Miggy, Pujols.
Of the hugh deals this offseason:
1 out of 3 of these BIG contracts will be an albatros to the team towards the end of the deal. Some of the really long ones will be more of ‘at the middle’ of the contract.
Don’t give me the “if they win a world series title, it’ll be worth it”. BUt then the last few years of the contract fans will be wishing they would retire early…
Ya, Pujols had a resurgence this past year, but his last 5 years were: not good to bad.
YourDreamGM
Only 1 out of 3? I say 2.7 out of 3.
claude raymond
hoof, none of your examples played SS. 4 are firstbasemen who playfirst cuz often times don’t pan out at other positions. Pujols Davis Cabrera started as 3rd basemen. The best player on a baseball team starting from little league plays SS. They are way more valuable. Few people ripped the Padres for giving Tatis that big contract. Hindsight, always 20 20, can be critical of that deal because of injury/PED bust but it was still worth it
fred-3
Correa in 8 seasons:
2 All-Star appearances
1 top 15 MVP vote
Zakis
As per the norm, the Twins said they tried, but did they really? Did anyone think 10-285 would get him? I said to some friends about a half hour before he signed it would be a 12-370 deal. The Twins need owners like the Padres who will spend!
Pete Ladd’s glasses
You should be happy. Remember how much of an albatross mauer was for a few years? This is worse and much longer. I lived through all that. Not again man. Correa is slow and will have slow reflexes to match by age 32-33.
I just hope they aren’t stupid enough to spend money on Dansby. His strikeout #s are terrifying. We have enough of that already
YourDreamGM
Surprised twins offered him 285. I would be happy as a fan. That’s some serious money. If my team gave him 350 I would no longer be a fan. Horrible contract and twins are much better off passing on him.
Pete Ladd’s glasses
I totally agree. I was all for a 7 year deal…but that was my max. And that I feel was stretching it. He is already slow. How much incentive will he have now to stay in peak shape? Everything about it feels gross. More power to him though… take the money and run. But as a baseball fan in general. I don’t like this. I don’t see how this doesn’t hurt the game. Everybody is saying the average AAV’s will be much higher in five years. That’s misleading. The average player will have a higher AAV yes, but not these so-called stars. It just can’t age well. No matter how you spin it.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Twins ownership made it’s money taking, not giving away. Think you can break that habit?
Pete Ladd’s glasses
Simply put, no. That habit will not be broken. Unless they started regulating and forcing cheap owners to spend. At that point I’m sure the Pohlad’s would sell. A guy can dream
websoulsurfer
Heyman is the source of that rumor. Has he gotten anything correct this offseason?
urnuts
Giants better invest in louder trash cans.
alwaysgo4two
Overall a better deal than Judges for actual return.
YourDreamGM
Both are awful. Bet more Giants fans would rather have Judge and would have bought more tickets to see him.
detroitdave84
The owners are out of control and in 6 years these large contracts will start weighing down many of these teams. It has to stop! Need a HARD CAP just like all the other leagues & a cap on the length of years of a contract, just like the other leagues. So many teams just can’t compete in this environment and its really bad for the game!
YourDreamGM
Owners can do whatever they want. They know the history of these contracts.
BuJoBi
I agree, it’s becoming more like soccer. Half the league is irrelevant and act as minor league teams to the big clubs
Pete Ladd’s glasses
That is exactly what is happening. Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Padres, Red Sox, and they will need to have a Chicago team figure it out. Those will be the core six super teams. Atlanta and Houston will be in there initially until their talent fades.out. The Premiere League composed of 8 teams. Then the second and third division composed of 11 teams each. Each year 2 teams are relegated out of each league. I’d rather have that setup than we have now. At least then we could root for something…no matter your team. With this lack of parity…it only makes sense. Either that or regulate the league. Hard top and bottom caps. Then the ultra rich owners cannot ruin baseball by being themselves, and the super tight owners of the small market teams cannot pocket all the profits and run.
skip55
if all goes well, in less than 13 years, he’ll wish he hadn’t signed for so long.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I give it 7 years. These massive long deals is why I think opt outs are good. I wouldn’t want to go through 6-8 years of winning seasons and then for whatever reason the team owner pulls a Florida Marlins and has a fire sale and they start from scratch
Yanks2
If he’s making 30m a year why would winning or losing even matter? If they don’t make the playoffs that means less time having to work
cencal
As a Dodgers fan, i love this deal and those years!
Poster boy for Ahole cheaters is right where he belongs.
VermonsterSD
Too funny, everyone giving the Padres crap for signing Bogaerts into his 41 year old year, yet lots of people OK with this. Bogaerts even had a better WAR than Correa this year, and is 2 years older. Side note, I think both contracts are ridiculous…….
MPrck
At first blush you have to wonder is this another S.B.F. money laundering scheme ? Then you shake yourself because this is baseball, and they ain’t there, yet ? 27 million a year, and you realize Correa caught a whale. I read the article, and seen his stat’s, but Detroit played Minnesota a lot last year, and he did not stand out, to this degree of a future contract.
Minnesota I think dodged a bullet, and S.F has their new Posey. West coast it seems is where baseball players go to retire from public view. Trout, Ohtani, think what they would be on the East coast. S.F got a guy, so they are happy.
Brad Scott
@MPrck: As you’re probably aware, there’s absolutely no comparing Correa to Posey, and one would think the Giants and their “genius” Zaidi are at least smart enough to know that too (although this signing strongly suggests otherwise).
Jimbo_Jones
I thought the NL East was going to have all the fun. Wake the hell up dodgers!
Brew’88
The Dodgers focus is always the regular season, they don’t feel compelled to win the offseason. Or the post season for that matter.
slydevil
Normal Boras, twins were never in it.
Hopefully the giant like overpaying for a baby who blames all his issues on other players.
This will make Robbie cano’s deal like a good move in comparison. West coast overpay for a year or two of replacement level performance.
Edp007
So a Bo Bichette when he’s FA will be asking 13/450-500
Edp007
2026
websoulsurfer
Not likely. 2B typically don’t get that kind of money and Bichette is not going to be a SS long.
mgomrjsurf
My on(y comment Ihat MLB Network isn’t covering thus big news even having an updated MKB Tonight with it,
Edp007
Yes terrible coverage. Shame on them
Poster formerly known as . . .
This seals it. Boras is a hypnotist.
YankeesBleacherCreature
He’s Denzel in Training Day except he lives on.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Or maybe Ricky Roma in “Glengarry Glen Ross.”
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Ployed: One of the best movies of all time. The desperation you see in those salesmen sticks with ya. It’s about time I rewatch it. Not another Patel !
Berkner
“All I need is one dumb owner”
-Scott Boras
CaseyAbell
Like all the clubs handing out these ultra-long deals, the Giants are banking on value for the first half or (maybe) the first two-thirds of the contract. After that they know the deal will be an albatross but they’ll take the hit. It’s just the business now for top free agents.
nosake
Lucky Giants. Correa is an exciting player. I wish the Twins had been contenders.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If I am Ohtani, I am thinking:
tell me what Correa and Rodon received, add the two sums together, and that should be your opening offer to me!
kgcubs
Wow, what a long contract. I think the Cubs and Twins dodged a bullet. I understand why SF felt they had to get him. I’m curious as to his injury history and if he’ll be able to give the Giants consistently 140+ games per year during the entirety of the 13yrs? Will be interesting to watch. Mahalo
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Atlanta’s acquisition of Murphy seems really smart right now.
Brad Scott
Zaidi’s been trying s0 hard to dispel the notion that he’s a baseball genius, and he’s finally succeeded. Crawford can outperform Correa defensively, so all the Giants are really adding is a modest bit of ridiculously overpriced offense at a position occupied by their best player. For teams such as the Dodgers that need a shortstop, Correa’s a good signing (although Swanson’s a better choice). For the Giants, Correa’s a $350 million blunder.
Jimbo_Jones
@Brad ehhhh Correa is a far superior player by any metric. Crawford is a very capable SS but realllllyyy come on now. The Giants are a better club with this move get over the money let the giants figure it out the years same ish
Brad Scott
Jimbo, are you aware that Crawford has four Gold Glove awards and Correa has just one? Some players are underrated and some are overrated. Correa’s a very good player, just not quite as good as many seem to think. Crawford’s a brilliant defensive shortstop who’s overlooked by many because his offense typically isn’t among the best. And don’t believe everything the media says … they’re wrong at least as often as not.
Jimbo_Jones
@Brad gold gloves are far too subjective. Juan Soto just won one in right field. Like I said Crawford is a good SS but Correa is elite
Poster formerly known as . . .
Statcast purports to be objective, Jimbo, and since 2016 Crawford is credited with 61 Outs Above Average to Correa’s 25.
DRS reverses their standing, but DRS is graded by BIS employees watching plays on a computer screen, which would seem to introduce more subjectivity into the process.
UZR/150 and Def both like Crawford better.
I don’t view any defensive metric in isolation as being entirely reliable.
Make of it what you will.
Brad Scott
Correa’s one of the best all-around shortstops in MLB, Jimbo, but he’s not an elite player..Many say Trea Turner’s better. Many say the underrated Dansby Swanson’s as good or better. Xander Bogaerts is outstanding and plays practically every game. As for elite players: Ohtani’s elite. Trout’s elite. Betts is elite. deGrom’s elite. Freeman’s elite. Acuna’s elite. Machado’s elite. Arenado’s elite. Harper’s elite. Altuve’s elite. Alcantara’s elite. There might be a few others, but Correa’s not among them.
Jimbo_Jones
Ehhh your list has few SS but sure. To say Correa isn’t elite is laughable. Crawford maybe would break into the top 10 a couple years ago
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Put different, Giants could play the 35 year old Crawford at ss in 2023 and put Correa at a different position for a year, but they won’t do it. My guess is that it would be a wash either way.
Pete Ladd’s glasses
Correa is not elite at SS. He does make every play he can get to…but his range is poor. Elite SS’s can get to dang near everything and vacuum it up.
Hammerin' Hank
Nobody cares about gold glove awards anymore. Brandon Crawford is old and washed up. At his peak he was not nearly as good a player as Correa is right now.
claude raymond
Weird how crawford finished 5th in mvp not 750 days ago Hank. And nobody cares about Gold Glove? Are you Hammerin or just hammered?
Brad Scott
@claude raymond: Thanks for standing up for Crawford. And actually he was 4th in the 2021 NL MVP voting, in addition to receiving his 3rd All-Star selection and winning his 4th Gold Glove award. He’s also won a Silver Slugger award and had at least two other seasons – including 2021 – in which his offense was even better than that. An injured knee from a home plate collision hampered him this season, but he’s one of the most durable shortstops in baseball, By comparison, the injury-prone Correa’s had three seasons in which injuries have caused him to play fewer games than Crawford played this season. None of this is intended to berate Correa, who’s an outstanding player. But IMHO those who criticize Crawford don’t know what a brilliant defensive shortstop he is. And even though many fans love lots of home runs and offense, teams win with pitching and defense.
Jean Matrac
Pete Ladd’s glasses, You obviously don’t understand how defensive metrics work.
Pete Ladd’s glasses
Oh but I do! I know a fielder with limited range can hurt your team even if he doesn’t make errors. Lots of hits slipping past. The guy who can get to everything, but fluffs a few is much more valuable. Batters stay away from these guys because they can get to everything in their vicinity. Lead footed, while reliable, leave lots of holes to exploit.
Also, there still is not a good defensive metric. Even the “experts” agree on that. Defense has been and always be the eye test. But you actually have to watch a game to observe that.
Also, if you want to learn about defensive metrics, bust out a game of stratomatic. That game will quickly teach you the danger a lead footed shortstop can have on your squad.
Jean Matrac
Well that response confirmed my suspicions.
Jimbo_Jones
If Correa doesn’t pass the “eye” test you truly need glasses
Pete Ladd’s glasses
I never said Correa doesn’t pass the eye test. I said he is not elite at the position. Better than average of course.
I’ve delved into the metrics like most of us…and it is helpful. No doubt. But you still need to watch the games to get a feel.
Actually, scratch that. You are right. SABR nerds are always right. I keep forgetting about the entitled generation. You win!
Jimbo_Jones
Correa is a pernial top 10 SS. If that’s not elite then what? Like 2 or 3 guys are? It’s all good we all have our opinions and thank you for listening to mine
Brad Scott
@Pete Ladd’s glasses: You have it right on all counts except one: SABR isn’t about any particular generation. As you’re probably aware, it’s Bill James’ thing that spans generations, including his. SABR is like an uncontrolled virus that people are convinced is actually good for them.
websoulsurfer
UZR is not close to accurate since they don’t take the shift into account at all. DEF or dWAR on Fangraphs uses UZR as its base.
DRS does take the shift into account and it’s not subjective since all the BIS employees are doing is plugging the data in. Pitch speed, exit velocity, launch angle, player positioning, etc… for each at play.
OAA is also based on humans inputting data. Some of their data is more accurate since they use LIDAR mapping of the field to pinpoint the location of the player on each play.
websoulsurfer
If he is a top SS, he is an elite player. SS is the premier position on the field.
websoulsurfer
No one other than a few Braves homers on here say Swanson is better than Correa.
websoulsurfer
On defense? Maybe at one point. Overall Correa is a much better defensive player today than the 35 year old Crawford. On offense it’s no contest. That is why Crawford agreed to move to 3B before the Giants even started pursuing Correa.
hopper15
@Brad Scott Crawford’s best years are behind him. What’s your point?
slydevil
I don’t even hate Scott boras anymore.
Teams: Do any of your deals actually pay off?
Boras: Heck no but you morons keep giving me more money!
Giants: the brinks truck is on the way!
Boras: cool, enjoy 4 years of replacement level value and nine years of financial burden!
Jimbo_Jones
I say sit back and enjoy the show! If your team isn’t trying that’s a shame. Maybe a relegation system needs to take place…I know not a chance but one can only dream
Gmen777
Even as a Giants fan I like the Turner deal a little better than this one, that being said if Bogaerts got 11 years and $280M this deal seems like a bargain.
MDW
Turner is the #1 and Correa was #2
Correa will be 51 years when his Giant contract is over.
He had a contract that he turned down for $35M for an annual contract at $27K
Poster formerly known as . . .
He’ll be 41 in 13 years, MDW.
MDW
Not in baseball player years
websoulsurfer
Correa will be in his age 40 season the last year of this contract. He turned down $70 million for $350 million. Math is really hard for you, isnt it?
Poster formerly known as . . .
Why be nasty about it? Maybe he accidentally typed a 5 instead of a 4.
He said, “when his Giant contract is over,” not “when he starts his last season of the contract.”
Correa was born on September 22, 1994, so he’ll turn 41 in September of the final year of the contract.
YourDreamGM
If he wanted less money he wouldn’t have signed 1 year with twins. He wanted that 300 million.
Poster formerly known as . . .
All I can say is, Boras had better send Steve Cohen a BIG Hanukkah present.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Perhaps a Megalodon
institutionalinvestor.com/article/b150nt384kmck6/s…
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_(Koons)
Poster formerly known as . . .
Suddenly Steve’s offseason so far looks rather thrifty.
Bright Side
Boras is the greatest song and dance man in sports.
AllAboutBaseball
As much as I don’t like Correa the guy is a Star player when he plays, specially in the playoffs
Yanks2
He made sure to only be a star in his walk year
jjd002
Last year was his third best season.
Smacky
He’s going to benefit from the stat inflation in the NL West. There’s like 2 good pitchers in the division now that Rodón is a free-agent, Walker Buehler’s elbow is hamburger meat, and Clayton Kershaw is such an old 34 that the AARP would allow him to become a member.
Jimbo_Jones
The central divisions are the weakest in MLB but sure the NL West is a cakewalk cool story bro
MLB Top 100 Commenter
In 2022, Kershaw had an era of 2.28 and a whip of 0.94. When Kershaw is not on the IL, he is one of the top pitchers during the regular season. Plus, there is Urias, Gonsolin, Zac Gallen, Darvish and Musgrove.
Smacky
What ever you say! Congrats on getting muted.
Jimbo_Jones
Ohhh nooo you’re gonna mute someone. Why even post?
Smacky
Jimbo, you must not be familiar with how the mute feature works. I see your notifications but I can no longer see any of your posts. You’re just screaming into a void when you reply to my comments. Feel free to mute me too! I’ll never even know!
Jimbo_Jones
Doesn’t seem to work then. Further more I don’t go crying away when someone else’s opinion doesn’t echo my own.
Rallyshirt
youtube.com/watch?v=KjYEJ8XSXto&t
Cheating interview
DaOldDerbyBastard
We all know how well 41 year old everyday players are. Jeez.
gfan
Ya. Focus on 13 years from now instead of the first 7.
websoulsurfer
I guess its good then that Correa will be retired when his age 41 season comes along. This contract ends after his age 40 season.
DaOldDerbyBastard
Well he ended up signing with my Mets team for 12 years and he will be 40 when it ends. Terrible signing. I’m excited but still just a bad idea.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Uhhhhh Cardinals signed a part-time catcher for 90million so I wouldn’t be bragging a whole lot. That Contreras contract is going to look like doggy doo by mid-season. Overrated x 100. Cardinals should have figured out something for Sean Murphy.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I didn’t say it was worse. It’s just not a smart contract and one that will be regretted. It seems very weird to me that the normally fiscally prudent Mozeliak signed off on it. Not a Cards fan either.
5TUNT1N
Let’s go! not the hugest fan of the contract but I always thought he was the best shortstop and so did the giants as previously stated publicly. Hopefully Crawford gets the opening day start for the record and then they have a ceremony type thing to hand the reigns over to correa. Would really like to see a Conforto, Gallo type to strengthen the outfield defense and provide some pop in the lineup. Let us not forget the bullpen was a dumpster fire in the second half after a relatively good run over the last year and half leading up to it. There’s some familiar faces that should be available on minor league deals of course. Maybe snag Drury or Meyers depending on their market. I’ve been saying for awhile now extend Webb > Rodon. Offer Harrison a Stryder type extension or something. Move DeSclafani , dfa la Stella. Take on a bad contract from Atlanta move Luciano and get fried and extend him.
claude raymond
Stunt, trade for laureano (luciano is expendable with schmitt on the way, add matos and a pitcher not named Harrison plus a current player to match $ for tax issues), sign Ottavino, Rogers, Reyes or other bullpen arms. I think they’re done with SPs cuz Harrison is on the way this season. Stunt, sf will not want to go over $233 mil IMO so I doubt they’ll want to take on a bad contract. I really believe a trade will happen. That is if Luciano has the trade value he once had.
5TUNT1N
By all accounts Luciano can play now if you just stick him in the outfield so I’d rather try that. Everyone said he was long shot to stick at short and apparently that’s the case!
Jake1972
Massive overpay on the amount and years but hey it isn’t my money…
5TUNT1N
I like it better than the Bryant contract for the Rockies! SS are expensive this off-season!
King Floch
Not upset at all that the Orioles did not listen to the media’s steady insistence for the last year that they should sign him. 13 years at $25mil+ for a guy who will probably have to move off SS to a less valuable position like 2B or 3B by around the halfway point when we don’t even need a SS? No thanks.
It’s also probably for the best for the Twins in the long run that they “lost” the bidding war.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Is MLB going to veto this deal? 13 years to circumvent the CBT’s.
angt222
Think about this: A-Rod hit more than double the career total of HRs that Correa currently has through the same point in his respective MLB career. Correa-$350M man, A-Rod circa 2001, $250M man.
TellItGoodbye
Adjusted for inflation, Arod’s deal was worth $420M.
websoulsurfer
For 10 years. $42 million AAV
angt222
Still cheaper than the 9yr/$360M contract offered to Judge.
Poster formerly known as . . .
As it should be. Judge’s rookie season was 2017. Since then, he’s accumulated 36.2 fWAR, #1 in baseball. Correa’s a good player and I’d have welcomed him to the Bronx, but he ranks 16th since 2017 with 23.9 fWAR.
jjd002
You pay for future results, not past performance. Correa is younger
Poster formerly known as . . .
Well, Steamer projects 6.9 WAR for Judge in 2023 and 5.1 WAR for Correa, and Steamer 600 projects 6.1 WAR for Judge and 4.7 WAR for Correa, so I guess they’re doing that.
And Judge has played 702 games since his 2017 rookie year to Correa’s 636 games, so Judge has been more durable despite being 2 years and 5.5 months older.
websoulsurfer
Have you ever wondered why there is never an article showing how projections like STEAMER prove out at the end of the season?
Maybe it’s because they are very bad. Ever heard a team mention Steamer projections? Me neither.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I agree with you on that, surfer. The fact that they scrub the previous years’ STEAMER projections instead of archiving them for comparison always struck me as a specimen diffidence verging on intellectual dishonesty.
I’m pretty confident anyway that the front offices use their own proprietary calculations to project future value.
Poster formerly known as . . .
typo: meant to type “a specimen of diffidence.”
websoulsurfer
fWAR uses UZR for defense. UZR is not accurate at all since it doesn’t account for shifts. Use rWAR or don’t use WAR at all.
baseball-reference.com/players/j/judgeaa01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/c/correca01.shtml
Judge 5.3 average WAR and Correa 4.9 average WAR for their careers.
Judge is making $40 million AAV and Correa is making $27
Poster formerly known as . . .
rWAR (or bWAR) uses DRS, which has its own flaws, chief among them being that it’s graded by humans watching video of plays on a computer screen, hence the presence of subjective errors and bias has to be assumed. So saying “Use rWAR or don’t use WAR at all” is itself biased, unwarranted and, frankly, pretty overbearing. Someone said jokingly that the way to choose a version of WAR is to pick the one that supports your biases — and there’s some truth spoken in jest there.
One could also use SABR’s metric, WARP, which uses Fielding Runs Above Average as the defensive component of the calculation.
In 2022, Judge was credited with 10.4 WARP to Correa’s 3.5.
In fact, when MLB was negotiating the new CBA, the league suggested using fWAR to determine player salaries.
Additionally, the shift is going to be eliminated from the infield next year.
SportsFan0000
The Tigers offered 10 years 175M last year.
If they had bumped their offer to 12 years 300M or 310M (last year)
then Correa would be a Tiger right now.
Yanks2
275m
5TUNT1N
Dude be honest that’s not a bump it’s double damn near. Out of Detroit comfort zone.
MotownWings
Tomorrow there will be an article saying the Padres offered more.
.
Yep. Probably 15/450.
foppert
Good work Giants. Thank you.
Welcome Carlos !
whyhayzee
At some point, if this continues, there will be a year, maybe about 2028, when every roster will be completely filled with players on ridiculous multi-year contracts. It will be like walking onto the executive floor of a corporate office. A bunch of old men (by baseball standards) being paid for what they’ve done in the past.
afl forever
Unreal. Don’t people learn after the Albert contract? This will be good for 6, maybe 7 years then it will be an anchor
JoeBrady
Don’t people learn after the Albert contract? This will be good for 6, maybe 7 years then it will be an anchor
===============================
That’s really the difference. IMHO, you need to have as many positive years as negative years. Pujols only figured to have two good years, followed by 8 declining years. Correa should far out-perform his contract for maybe 6 years.
And the 7 declining years probably includes 3 that are baked into the low AAV.
revolver
Puhols wasn’t good for 6 or 7 of those years.
Fred McGriff HR
Everyone said Pujols was done when he was 40, 41, and he finally hit .270 in his final year as a 42 year old. When Correa and Bogaerts end their contracts, let’s see if any of the two of them do as well or come close to what Pujols hit in his ages 37-42..
I don’t have a crystal ball like some people in society seem to have these days, so much so they can tell the future about all manner of things, even things that don’t have humans involved. But as far as I am concerned I don’t believe when these contracts reach their latter stages these two won’t hit as well as Pujols did in the same part of the end of his contract/playing career in baseball.
revolver
Maybe if they use an illegal bat
fred-3
Yeah, but what about players like Miggy, Cano, Votto? All are still getting paid big money, but limping to the finish line.
Hammerin' Hank
Pujols was decent this year at one thing, hitting lefties. Other than that he brought no value to the table.
Fred McGriff HR
@ Hammerin’ Hank You can paint it any way you like, he still hit .223 v RH pitching, .20 below league average and still produced 11 HR and 38 rbi with a .747 OPS from that side. To assert he “brought NO value to the table is nonsense. The point I was making is these shortstops won’t be close to Pujols at the same age, but let’s see, I doubt they’ll prove me wrong.
BaseballClassic1985
$350 million for Carlos Correa lol Glad it wasn’t the Yankees
Northeasternskier
Not yet it isn’t. In a couple of years the Yanks will take the huge contract off their hands.
jjd002
Lol. You guys have three terrible contracts that likely will be worse than this one, on top of the many over the years the Yankees have given out.
Hammerin' Hank
Yeah like that team-friendly Stanton deal lol!
5TUNT1N
Argument can be had that if judge wasn’t a yankee last season and had the season he had offensively. They would have benefitted more from correa than judge just as the giants. Volpe ,Peraza etc. are not guaranteed just as Luciano is not.
Gterm
Imagine baseball in 10 years when we get to see all of these 40 year olds making over 30 million a year trying to chase down fly balls and clogging DH spots.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
A top ten market signs a star player.
FINALLY.
How refreshing.
benhen77
Ok Twins, make Rodon happen now.
Braveslifer
Albert Pujols comes to mind.
jagonza
That will buy plenty of trash cans , spotters, buzzers and transmitters. See kids cheaters do prosper , forget school and find your path through lies and deceit
jjd002
You act like it wasn’t a league wide issue. Baseball has a rich history of players/teams bending the rules.
revolver
It wasn’t a league wide issue. It was an Astros issue .
jjd002
That’s false. The Astros weren’t the first team to use it (Yankees brought it to Houston via Beltran) and they weren’t the last team to use it (they stopped at the beginning of the 2018 season).
Hammerin' Hank
No, it was a league-wide issue. And you simple-minded people just can’t let it go. Come up with some new material, will ya? The trash can jokes aren’t amusing except to yourselves.
bravesfan
Insane amount of money and years, not that he doesn’t deserve this, but it’s crazy to think baseball contracts have gotten to this point. What’s next? 20 year deals? Lol I mean unbelievable
fathead0507
So MLB would have voided Judge on 14yr deal with SD but this is allowable?
Twosevens916
If he shoots enough three-pointers and scores enough touchdowns without having the referees interfere, he won’t be flagged for three second violations in the paint, which will be better for the Giants because our goalkeeper is no spring chicken. We just need to build more players around our best safety and linebackers to support the steals and icing calls . Great signing! We will definitely win the super series.
BleedzBlue
so glad the giants did this because 1. now it’s way more fun to root against them 2. we get to watch the inevitable crash and burn after a few years and the panic when the giants realize they are stuck with dead weight for years to come.
foppert
Ha ha. Good for you.
Oppo Taco
The economy of this deal:
$350/7 = $50. That’s the AAV that Correa and the Giants think is fair…. Space it out over 13 years to bring down the AAV and avoid spending even more within the luxury tax framework.
It’s not ‘insane’ or ‘stupid’ to give 13 years, it’s simply cost effective. Nobody really cares what they get from Correa after the peak 7 years is up, since nobody expects an elite product at that point. If he ages well and is productive that’s just icing on the cake.
The cost is the cost. If you don’t like it go stimulate yourself on how the Rays do business. But given what Scherzer and Verlander are worth per year, plus Correa’s contract last year, an AAV of $50/yr for 7 years for a free agent stud shortstop seems about right to me.
30 Parks
… how the Rays and Red Sox do business, unfortunately, Oppo.
revolver
The Giants will still have to field a team those last six years. Do you think the tigers regret giving Cabrera all those years, or would they have preferred to condense it?
Yanks2
Probably worse than the Chris Davis contract. Correa isn’t even worth 7 years, let alone double that. Laughable but Giants fans must feel worse
Hammerin' Hank
Come on, Correa is a far more talented player than the one-dimensional Chris Davis ever was.
hopper15
You can’t be serious. Correa plays a premium position. Chris Davis did not.
Old York
Wow! As I said in another thread, there is going to be a lot of old geezers on the field in 8 to 10 years from now with all these long-term contracts. I guess this is the result of the change to universal DH. Now you can have 40+ year old players on your roster just going up to hit once every 3 or 4 times a game.
LosPobres1904
No they are getting cut and getting paid like Bonilla.
Hammerin' Hank
Just like Miguel Cabrera right now
gorav114
U know its gotten crazy when the Dodgers are staying out of the shopping
OZ13
The Dodgers are saving money for Ohtani next year. They will either trade for him this year and extend him, or sign him from FA. Other superstar FA’s at that time (barring extensions): Devers, Machado.
put it in the books
Lol so dumb
30 Parks
I hope the Giants put a “no massage” clause in the contract – dangerous. This is a great deal for Correa, not the Giants.
OZ13
Huge overpay that seems like a desperation move for the Giants. If the Twins offered 285 mil over 10 and the Giants offer 350-360, they must have been receiving reports that he was getting massive offers elsewhere that were close to 350. The AAVA isnt terrible for the Giants considering the money that they have to spend. If they can build up a winning roster around him within 2 yrs then I think it’ snot terrible for them. His glove is great and will transition to third fine, and then to first. His bat plays well as he has always had a good eye at the plate. His HR and counting stats will be down in that park/lineup, but as someone said earlier “a run saved is as valuable as a run scored”. He saves runs and creates runs, which is why he is so valuable. A jack of all trades sort of. I personally am not a fan of him, but can see the value in him…. still an overpay but due to the length of the contract the AAV isn’t terrible. They will be players for Ohtani next year and others in the huge FA class. Giants will be a winning team again soon (107 two seasons ago was a fluke/anomaly).
LosPobres1904
It’s like the housing market people overpaying
JoeBrady
I’m not a Correa fan, but this is a pretty good signing. IMO, this translates to a $350M/10 contract. Based on what’s been given out over the past twp weeks, $35M per to age 37 is pretty reasonable.
But more importantly, Correa is a perfect fit. He might be a 4-5 win upgrade at SS. If they re-sign Rodon, they are roughly even with SD. But even without Rodon, their remaining $32M of cap money can add another good hitter or BP piece.
RockinRobin
No way is this a good deal for SF. It’s a fantastic deal for Correa.. His .836 lifetime OPS is solid, but he just doesn’t play enough for me.
Libpwnr
LOL.
Giantshavetherings 2
The Giants and fans are NOT bitter about Judge. This is about selling tickets and merchandise. Its driven by ownership.
The Giants don’t have any payroll committed past 2025. They are a big market team. So, this is an extremely affordable deal.
The Giants also have a real-estate and media empire worth as much as the baseball team, if not more.
All of you who are thinking they are bitter because they missed out on Judge dont get why they made this deal. It’s about putting a star on a banner, baseball is secondary.
padresfan111323
Proud of you Carlos hope you’re ready to produce for my fantasy team again next year
Fooque2
Holy OVERpay Batman!!!
sliderwithcheeze
Have fun paying California income taxes dummy.
Fooque2
News report San Fran has cornered the market on trash cans………..
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Once a cheat always a cheat.
ohyeadam
Adding on last year’s contract and his gamble paid off handsomely. 14/385 is considerably better than Seager got
Zachary D Manprin
The dichotomy of Bay Area baseball; Giants spending money in a ridiculous fashion while the A’s are frugal to the appearance of destitution.
msqboxer
It’s now getting to the point that if my team isn’t in the World Series I’m hoping a mid to small payroll team is and I’m pulling for them!
LGStros
Wow. I had a feeling he’d sign with SF, but that contract is crazy. Best of luck to him.
stroh
Go look at Correa’s playoff stats vs any other shortstop or for that matter anyone else. As a Stros fan I’m really glad we have Jeremy Pena but Correa is one of the premier players in baseball and got paid.
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
The Giants should pay for what CC did in Houston protected line up and a their Gold Glove First baseman?
StrangeRanger
As many others have said, I don’t understand the hype surrounding this guy. I feel like he displays good analytics, but it doesn’t translate to the results you’d expect. Boras once again overhyped his man and took advantage of a club desperate to compete within their division.
As far as state taxes are concerned, MN. tax rate is 9.85% while CA. is 13.3%. All said and done, Correa will earn ~23.3m/yr in CA. with a total value of 303.5m over the length of the contract. If he took MN’s offer, he would have made 25.7m/yr with a total value of 256.9m over the length of the contract. Strangely, MN has the fourth highest tax rate behind only CA, HI, and OR. He chose to continue his career for an additional three years for ~47m more pay. To hit free agency at 38 (MN offer), his career may have been over. Now he’s guaranteed 3y x 47m from age 38-41. I would have done the same thing. I can retire at 41 instead of 38 with 47m extra in the bank.
Gmen777
Disregarding the shortened 2020 season Correa has averaged 4.8 WAR a season for his career. To put that in perspective Turner had a career high of 4.9 this year. Seeing some of the comments here shows people either irrationally dis like the Giants or just aren’t very knowledgeable because Correa is quite a bit better overall than Turner and Bogaerts.
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
WAR is overrated and you know that.
farscott
Since Correa is 28 and this is a thirteen-year contract, it takes him to age 41. I find it hard to believe one can be a starting infielder at that age.
My best estimate is the long contract term is a means to lowering the luxury tax impact. I would not be surprised if he is cut sometime during the last three years of the contract. He still gets his money, but $350 million over ten years is $35 million versus $350 over 13 years at $27 million. That $8 million per year may buy one or two more players.
The real question is how long a contract will MLB allow. 14 years for Aaron Judge would have been rejected; 13 years for Correa was accepted. Or is there an upper player age limit?
zappaforprez
He won’t be a starting infielder in 2027, likely. Kid has averaged 418 AB’s for his entire career. Finally playing in 150 games for the first time since his 2nd season sure has a lot of people forgetting he’s made of glass.
longines64
If you’re a position player in the farm system for these teams that have signed a guy for 10 years at the position you initially signed for, you have to feel like you’re thru with that organization.
mazbilleroski
13 years? That’s a hell of an albatross to hang on your neck. What’s the deal with these decade long contracts? Not sustainable.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
What’s the average home game temp in SF? How’s that translate baseball metrics?
TJT88
Am I the only one that thinks Correa #1 isn’t that great and #2 this is a mega mega mega overpay and way too long of a contract
Deleted Userrr
Hoo boy. Correa is going to HEAR IT when the Giants visit Dodger Stadium.
fearthecub
Another guy I would’ve enjoyed seeing the Cubs sign, but I can’t argue with them not signing him at “market value” or for 13 years.
This is not a knock on Correa at all because I think he’s a solid player, albeit injury prone. But I can’t really buy into him as an elite level talent in the same conversation as Harper or Trout, or Judge, even. And that’s what this contract reflects, which seems like a bad idea, not just long term, but short term as well. The AAV isn’t terrible, but that’s a huge commitment to a player who has missed more than 50 games in 5 of his 8 MLB seasons. Even if he stays healthy, will he continue to contribute at an above average level for even half of the contract length? Yikes.
bloomquist4hof
If teams are now valuing one WAR at say 11 mil each it seems they’re at, instead of the 8-9 mil before this offseason, this make sense, they just stretched out what would have been an 8 year deal to 13 years to avoid paying 40+ million per year. I understand why teams do that, to some extent, but this is highly likely to be a deal where they’re paying a player that shouldn’t play MLB level baseball anymore by the end of this. The last 5 years might not just under water, but sub replacement or out of baseball level.
Ron Hayes
You know the guy is a player. If he was on the Dodgers talkin ish to Bellinger on the Astros, we would of loved him.. but he wasn’t and thank good Atre didn’t have the capability to strangle the Angels with this contract.
Hey GM’S!! ALBERT PUJOLS was around top 3 players of all time at the point the Angels signed him. If he didn’t work out, why would any shortstop hold up for decade. Actually how many shortstops don’t get moved? Ozzie Smith? Even Cal got pushed to third by Bordick. Now Crawford by this guy
Cooperdooper7
Once again…. these teams with these 10 + year contracts are absolutely dumb. Correa is a good player but these contacts they are handing out are just flat out ridiculous.
Paying theses players into their early 40’s is great for the player but horrible for the game of baseball.. The quality of play is already lacking, and there are probably 8 franchises that have little to no chance to compete and if they field a nice team by developing players, that window is short before they can’t afford to keep the team together.
Someone on this board please provide the rest of us some concrete facts on any one of these 10+ plus years contracts that will work. Please provide a few examples of how the recent or current contracts that paid players into their 40’s have worked….. I’ll wait for the replies.
Gmen777
It’s for teams to circumvent the luxury tax. Correa and Turner are easily worth 32-35M AAV right now but for sake of avoiding the luxury tax penalty teams are stretching the contracts out for more flexibility. As a Giants fan I’d rather have had it be 350 over 10 because like most I agree the last three years are going to be more or less dead money.
jvent
Is Correa the SS , what happens with their all star SS Crawford, trade bait or does Correa play 3b ? If Estrada plays 2b, Correa plays SS who plays 1b? JD Davis ? Who plays 3b ? Flores ? If they need a 3b the Mets can trade them another Met Escobar lol
James1955
jvent. Correa will play ss and Crawford plays 3b. Crawford has a no trade clause and he won’t wave it.
foppert
No chance they would trade him. This is good for Crawford. Gets to play a bit of third, hit in the bottom 3 and get some well earned days off in his swan song.
Pressure is off. Kick back a little and feel the love, Craw.
Hammerin' Hank
Crawford is no longer even close to an All Star. He’ll probably be spending a lot of time on the bench where he now belongs.
gfan
Luciano now trade bait ?
Better grab an outfielders glove kid.
Shortstop not really an option for you now. I’m betting on traded.
Gmen777
There have been debates for years if he’d stick there anyways. I’d try him in LF in the minors and see what happens
gfan
Still have Ramos, Matos, Brown, and Bishop to compete with but that’s a good thing. I hope one of them can break through soon and contribute.
Gmen777
I’ve more or less given up on Ramos and Bishop to be honest.
DarrenDreifortsContract
3rd place for the next decade confirmed.
CheesyDiarrhea
He’ll put up good numbers the first 4-5 years and then we will be complaining for the next 8.
hockiechick
Correa played the Twins for fools when he signed that deal last year with the option after one season. He knew he wasn’t going to stay in Minnesota and figured he’d get a better deal if he waited a year. Twins fell fot it.
As it turns out, the Giants fell for it too.
Colavito
I wouldn’t trust the slimy cheating dog for 13 minutes, much less 13 years. Fools and their money are soon parted.
luvochka
Here’s the thing, with him, (and other smaller improvements), the Giants have a very good chance of picking up a wild card spot, how much is that worth in terms of fan excitement and revenue?
In that light was this a bad signing? No way.
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
Ask the Twins?
budgreen420
LOL….douchebag team signs douchebag, Perfect fit.
BaseballisLife
1am eastern announcement. The Hot Stove never sleeps.
Great get for the Giants. Solidifies the middle of the diamond for the forseeable future at an easily affordable AAV.
Good job Farhan. Are you watching Elias? That is how it’s done.
acoss13
It’ll be interesting to see who signs Swanson. Swanson is a quality hitter, but I hope the Cubs don’t sign him. Would rather they save the money for next year’s free agency.
scottn59c
I don’t want to work
I want to bang on the drum all day
I don’t want to play
I just want to bang on the drum all day
Colavito
Thank God that Hinch couldn’t talk his co-cheating dog into coming to the Tigers. SF may get a couple decent seasons out of him before he goes in the tank.
prov356
Christopher Russo totally ripped the Giants for this deal.
hopper15
He rips every 10+ year deal for the most part.
iBleeedBlue
What if I told you that watching WWE growing up has helped me to accurately predict: presidential elections, the timing of media diverting disasters, exactly who would be prisoner swapped for Griner the moment she was arrested, AND Judge to Yankees after the Giants ran up the final price AND Correa to the Giants because they need another Bonds type to be booed by the LA fans and give the Giants, a team who literally followed us to California, a reason to exist again.
It’s all good guy bad guy stuff. It writes itself in comics, WWE, Marvel and DC movies, Real Housewives, Karsnatchians, cable news, and Washington DC.
65sporty
No way I would touch that if I were twins front office. Go after Swanson, trade Arreaz and prospect for Pablo Lopez and see what Kepler can do with MLB new rules on eliminating the shift. Kepler should definitely prosper from this and help the offense. Length of contracts and dollars are out of control but we have been saying it for years.
Fg-3
Correa needed this… he’s now on a Goody Goody team.. that’s also relevant and has a winning culture. Maybe he might win another championship but he’s already got one. This deal is about him and his legacy nothing else. He’s a above average SS and he’ll be a good third baseman. He’s no Machado he’s no Zander he’s a 250 and 20 hr player who’s never played a full season. He’s got the looks for San Fran but his game is worth 200 mil no more. He got the same $$ as Judge and Harper and Machado. The Giants overpaid for his name. And Boras takes it to the bank.
THEY LIVE!!!
As a Dodger fan this is GREAT!!! As a SS Correa is just about average and that’s IF he stays healthy. This will be the WORST ever contract in MLB history! Thank you Scott Boras for destroying the Gnats in one signing for the next 13 YRS!!!
Poster formerly known as . . .
Correa is considerably better than average. Since his rookie year he’s put up a 130 wRC+, which means he created 30% more runs than an average hitter. His health is a concern, but when he’s healthy, he’s very good, though not a 5-tool player (he doesn’t have much speed).
Unless injuries keep him off the field, his contract isn’t likely to be anywhere near the worst in history. Statistically, shortstops have among the longest shelf lives of all ballplayers, because they have enough athleticism to move to lower spots on the defensive spectrum as they age. And now the DH is universal.
Your enthusiasm for what you imagine to be a disastrous contract is probably misplaced.
THEY LIVE!!!
Correa is merely an upgrade over Crawford who is already used up. This contract is under water already before the ink dried on the paper.
MarlinsFanBase
I’d say that I’m waiting for the “Marlins were interested in…” article for Carlos Correa, but I kind of already know that the Marlins were probably $300 million short and preferred to give Correa an opt-out after every single one of the 13 years instead of a no-trade.
WAR overrated... shows how bad is the replacement? Assigned by?
So Jeremy Peña should have a contract for 20 years and $800m -$1b range.
THEY LIVE!!!
I like the User name. Correa is about the 12-15th best SS in MLB. That doesn’t scream elite or even close to it. Average at best. There’s a good reason that the Astros let him walk. He was lucky to get the contract he got last year too and he didn’t do anything to improve the chances of his team making the playoffs either.
RockinRobin
You know what stat I’d like to see in Baseball Reference? How many times someone went to the IL and how many days on the IL.
Some people are just injury prone more than others.
THEY LIVE!!!
Had to upvote you for the obvious truth nobody wants to quantify. Carlos Correa is the opposite of Cal Ripkin Jr. Problem is though, MLB doesn’t produce Ripkin type players anymore.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Go to Spotrac.com, Robin. They give the injury history on each player’s personal page, and they also give a seasonal breakdown for the league:
spotrac.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/carlos-correa…
spotrac.com/mlb/injured-list/2022/cumulative-playe…
RockinRobin
Thanks! Didn’t know that.