It’ll come as little consolation to Giants fans, but the team did have an offer on the table for top remaining free agent outfielder Brandon Nimmo before he wound up re-signing with the Mets for eight years and $162MM, according to Mike Puma of the New York Post. As Puma notes, it appears that once owner Steve Cohen got personally involved, Nimmo’s return to the Mets materialized quickly. It’s not known what terms the Giants were offering Nimmo.
It’s the second-straight outfielder the Giants have missed out on, having aggressively pursued Aaron Judge before he ultimately return to New York on a nine-year, $360MM deal. They have added Mitch Haniger on a three-year, $43.5MM deal but from the outset of the off-season they’ve been strongly linked with the top free agents. They could still sign one, and they’re one of the teams (along with the Twins and Cubs, per the New York Post’s Jon Heyman) that are heavily rumored to be in on Carlos Correa.
The outfield has been an area of focus for president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi this winter. Haniger’s addition bolsters their group, but Zaidi’s wanted two outfield signings. Now that they’ve missed out on the clear top two options available, it’ll be interesting to see whether they look for another outfielder, or go with a mix of Haniger, Austin Slater and Mike Yastrzemski and divert their resources to other options like Correa, or a starting pitcher.
If they do continue with their plans to add another outfielder, Andrew Benintendi is probably the top free agent available now. MLBTR predicted a four-year, $54MM deal for him, and given the Giants’ payroll space they could conceivably go after someone like that while still having space to pursue a long-term deal with Correa. They could also look to the trade market, and approach the Pirates about a deal to bring Bryan Reynolds back to the team that drafted him in 2016. While Reynolds is only due to make $6.75MM in 2023, he’s under club control for three more seasons and Pittsburgh looks to have a sky high asking price for him.
The Giants have a projected payroll of about $139MM as things stand, but they also have in the region of $60MM+ coming off the books at the end of next season. Given their payroll has stretched north of $200MM in recent seasons, they do have plenty of room to make a number of additions over the next season or two.
Ohtani Ohtani Ohtani
Next year will be interesting between SF, SD and the Dodgers as to which will get Ohtani. Right now, I pick the Dodgers.
Joe what the eff?!?!?!?!?!! Hahahha Don’t jinx him! He wants to stay a Halo with has pal Trout!
***his***
LOL!! Sorry about that Trumbo.
It’s OK Joe I’m already preparing for it. I don’t see the Halo’s giving him 500mil and I know that’s what it will take.
If Ohtani commands 400-500M, I don’t want the Halos in that market. Nobody but the player wins in these kinds of pissing contests by owners.
The amount of talent that can be secured for 45-50M a year is substantial to a team like the Angels. And the argument “for” is that you basically get a pitcher AND a hitter for that price. But the hitter clogs the DH spot and the pitcher mandates a 6th man rotation. Plus, if he gets hurt, you’re down 2 players – your 3rd or 4th hitter AND your ace.
I LOVE Ohtani, but there comes a price point that it doesn’t make sense to pay any player. I believe he’s going to hit that price point.
The Giants seem to be responsible for the high inflation of contracts this offseason, yet they keep falling short in getting the players.
Ohtani will be MLB’s first $50MM AAV player next year. The Giants will be in the bidding, but they seem to be the cost driver without being the victor. Dodgers are financially positioning themselves for Ohtani, plus I expect the Angels new owners to have great interest in retaining him.
I think all big market teams will offer something in the $500m range. It’ll come down to where he wants to go. New York, Chicago, LA, SF, Seattle, San Diego. The luxury tax is becoming a thing of the past and if teams want to contend for the best players, they are going to have to fly by the penalty thresholds.
@Ryan, you could be correct, but there is no evidence so far that the big market teams will ignore the luxury tax tiers, except for one team—the Mets—and it remains to be seen if even the Mets will continue to operate long term above the third tier.
Keep in mind, the long-term contracts given Turner and Xander are designed to lower the contract AAV’s, and that’s in deference to the luxury tax tiers. The Dodgers are currently aiming to retreat under the first luxury tax tier to reset the tax penalties. For all their wealth and spending, they let Seager and Turner leave. The Yankees have always been mindful of the luxury tax lines, consistently setting themselves up to retreat below the first level to avoid penalties. Even with signing Judge, their payroll is projected lower than last year. The Red Sox let a generational star in Mookie leave, and just let Xander leave. WTF?
Right now we have an outlier in Cohen, but I suspect he will eventually retreat because he can’t build a sustainable model with all the draft penalties he’ll face.
The Padres will fly past it this year too, and I agree that teams are using longer contracts to defer $, but I think we will see a harsher penalty coming if only a couple teams ignoring the thresholds – especially if they are going up towards $300-$400m like the Mets are. I’ve said all along that they should keep the tax penalties in place, but if you are beyond $200m, you lose a 3rd round draft pick the following season, over $225m, lose a second round pick, and over $250m you lose a first round pick. That would deter teams from going over $250m.
Angels won’t give him the $$$. Because some idiot gave Rendon $38M a year.
No I definitely wouldn’t say that.
Have you forgotten about what the Phillies have done?
Especially the unbelievable contract they GAVE Trey Turner who played SS for Dodgers last season 11 years for way WAY too much money. That right there started it all for the ridiculous contracts and then went and signed more players for ridiculous money.
The Giants signed only one player for 43 million for 3 years.
I really think that the players don’t want to sign with Giants because of Kapler and the analytics that they use which actually hurt the time on the field for players.
Ryan: But that’s only one year. Remember, there are certain grace periods of flexibility built in for good reasons. Teams need a couple years to restructure payrolls to get back under, which is why it’s compounding and they can reset. And every team that’s currently over has a boatload of money dropping off the books within the next two-to-three years in commitments.
I agree a harsher penalty system could be put in place if Cohen consistently ignores that top tier. The big market teams have played within the luxury tax system. Once a team breaks the third tier, they are ignoring the entire structure. They can get away with it for a year or two, but if it becomes normal operating procedure, the rest of the teams will create even harsher penalties.
27 a year is way too much money for Trea Turner. I disagree completely. Too many years? Certainly. But the money is fine and the yrars are just to lower the AAV.
If i’m reading the 2023 payrolls correctly, the Dodgers have around $150M committed. That leaves plenty of room for Ohtani next offseason. Does 8/500 seem about right?
Any restructuring of the cap and associated penalties would need to be collectively bargained with the players- who are almost certain to strike if currently caps are not INCREASED at the next contract. The only way to get harsher penalties would be higher caps.
I.M.O. Don’t see the Dodgers signing Ohtani for 400 mil. or more. I wouldn’t want them to either. But, that’s just me.
The metrics guys are losing out on good players this winter. Teams like the Giants and Red Sox are holding the line. It will remain to be seen, who wins in the long term. I tend to to think that the teams that are spending now on great players will be contenders for the next 5 years while teams like the Giants and Sox will not be in contention!
A 1WAR player is now worth, 10 million, while he was only worth 7 last year. Guys like Roberston and Kahnle’s contract show the move upward along with the top tear players. Thiere has been a big change with the top players and the length of their contracts which is new. GM’s are finding their are more than one way to skin a cat, and some GM’s seem shocked and are in limbo!
I predict new Angels owner will make Ohtani a deal he cannot refuse.
Manny I sure wish….You think they will pony up 500mil??? I guess it’s possible..After seeing the contracts this off season, and if he happens to have a really good year, I just can’t imagine what it will take.
Manny, I see even 15/600 if he kicks a$$ this year!
Maybe 13/585
Why not? You’re getting an ace and a slugger. It’s like signing a top SP and top FA bat all in one.
I agree Lyman. What is your early contract prediction for him?
@TJ, we don’t know what the Angels will do until we know who the new owners are. We get info on who are bidding on the Nats, but I haven’t read anything about who is bidding for the Angels, yet Manfred expects the deal to be done by Opening Day. That’s only 3 1/2 months off. Any names leaking out your way (I’m assuming you’re in California.)?
LordD, haven’t heard a PEEP!!
Woah! $$$
a Horse head in his bed?
Hahahahahahah I like your thinking Metman. I’ll send Tom down to SoCal to straighten things out..
10/450??
It’s really hard to have confidence in my prediction because I’m blown away by some of these contracts given away this off-season. They keep making changes to baseball as if it’s a declining sport and they need to save it and appeal to the new generation. But then you see how much franchises are bought for and then these contracts … how can baseball possibly be struggling? Anyways I’m going on a tangent.
Ohtani is an unprecedented player in the FA era. But 10/450 would also be unprecedented. So I’ll stick with that.
Lyman, well said all around friend.
Doubt it will be Padres, would love to have him but with Machados decision, Soto, Yu, and Snell extensions to worry about…I’ll pass on Ohtani unless owners want to go cray with the money.
I dought Padres sign 4 more large contracts. Two will be a stretch, and I believe Soto will get more than The Yankees paid Judge.
His camp will let SF
go first so that know what SD or LA will pay….
@Joe says: Unless the Mets get Ohtani. You should have learned by now not to sleep on Cohen.
Ohtani is going to the Mets.
Carter, I think it’s too cold out there for him. He likes SoCal weather.
Yeah, i think we can all already picture Ohtani in Dodger blue.
Are they going to be able to afford 300mil for Urias, 200 mil for Gonsolin, 250 mil for Buhler, 200mil for May, 200mil for Smitty, and 500mil+ for Ohtani though? Plus Mookie and Freddie?
Urias is probably gone if the price gets that high. Buehler coming off a second Tommy John surgery is probably not getting that kind of money anywhere. May has to have a full season before talking anything like that money and same can be said for Gonsolin. You pay Ohtani for what he’ll do at the plate and take whatever he gives you on the mound as icing on the cake
Hahaha If they do have good seasons going forward (which I don’t doubt for any of them) then the Dodgers are going to lose a lot of players in the next few years.
Thats going to happen anyway and they will just churn out replacements as good or better (the infuriating thing about the Dodgers)
Haha Well put Rsox.
Good for the Giants! They made an offer to Turner, Nimmo and myself also. Doesn’t look like anyone wants to go to San Francisco? Maybe Correa will?
Ohtani not going to happen as long as Zaidi is in charge.
Ohtani should get $500m over 11-12 years, and he’s absolutely worth it.
LOL yeah, I’m sure Ohtani is just clamoring to be in a lineup where he’s protected by Mitch Haniger and not sure his batting position day by day
Yeah because having Trout on his team has led him to great post season success! Clown
Even Trout @ 162 games wouldn’t get them over the hump. They need to be firing on all cylinders not just a few.
Exactly. As a lifelong Giants fan, I’m disgusted by what the organization has become. Farhan and Gabe can take their dumpster diving platoon split team of retreads and AAAA players and suck it. Not going to another game or buying anymore gear until those losers are shown the door.
Lol. So you’d rather the Giants have hamstrung themselves by signing Nimmo to a blasphemous 8 year/$164M deal? How many times in his career has Nimmo missed more than 50 games in a season?
Excellent decision, Theodore. If the kitchen is too hot for you, get out.
I was alright with them considering Nimmo until I saw the final numbers. That is a rich contract, wow. What I would be fine with is throwing the cash needed at Correa, plus maybe Benintendi and Senga plus some reclamation projects
“I was alright with them considering Nimmo until I saw the final numbers”
But what if the same happens with Correa & Bennintendi, which it inevitably will? The whole market is inflated, and because Nimmo got more years at a higher AAV, so will Benny. Likewise, because Xander nearly doubled his contractual expectations, the expectations will be the same for Correa (another Boras client, mind you).
Either way Zaidi needs to overspend and obligate the Giants to a much longer contractual term than is comfortable in order to land these top FA. So far that is a complete juxtaposition to his MO.
The injury concerns with Nimmo give me pause on a 8 year deal, but the reality is if the Giants want to look competitive and not get totally lapped (maybe twice) by LAD and SD they need to sign a class that can get some excitement and buzz. Attendance is down, Rodon looks all but a Yankee, so you are correct this goes against Zaidi’s recent MO but they are boxed into a corner. The alternative is do nothing major and probably be roughly a .500 team again
I don’t think the long term deal is counter to Zaidi’s MO, when it comes to position players. His aversion to long deals seems to be limited to pitchers. He offered Harper 10 years and Judge 9.
I think he’s fine with a big, long term deal for Correa. But Correa is elite, and neither Nimmo, nor Benentendi, are. I’m disappointed the Giants missed out on Nimmo. He’s is a very good player, and I wanted FZ to sign him, but when I see the numbers, I’m glad he didn’t.
That’s a fair point about the length of contract. I could be wrong, but in the Giants current state, I think he needs to offer more than what other teams are in money and/or years, like the Padres.
My observations indicate it’s a twofold issue: the first is that the Giants are rebuilding, or whatever, so the class this year needed extra to be lured away from competitors offering similar or less. The second is that they may be a bit skeptical as to his willingness to spend and build in the future. That’s just my uninformed opinion though.
Hahahahahahahaha
Yankee, I grew up in SF so I follow the Giants closely and my thoughts exactly line up with what you laid out. I came into the off-season assuming they had to sign at least one big name, would have to overpay for them, and the rub is just make sure you make the right choice. Now that we are down to Correa and Swanson at SS, and Rodón is highly unlikely to come back, Correa is the choice forced upon them and just try to surround him with the best team available now. The market has basically been set by Turner and Bogaerts, you adjust the numbers on the margins and decide if you want the say 8 year higher AAV deal or 11 year deal to lower that. Then you make it happen or don’t
I’m starting to lower my Correa expectations. The insider indicates there is concern with the bad back. Crawford is 35 and doesn’t have a bad back. I appreciate it’s not apples with apples, but it makes me think. I love the guy, but can you imagine another 5 years of Craw on the books ? Tough times.
I think the thing I disagree with most is the thought, expressed by several commenters, that the Giants missed out on two of their targets because of some overarching reason that guys are avoiding SF. Every case has it’s own reasons, not some universal feeling among players to avoid the Giants.
I always felt Judge would stay in NY. Not getting him was disappointing, but not surprising. I thought the only way the Giants would get him is if the Yanks didn’t match the Giants offer. I think with Nimmo, it was FZ refusing to go as high as the Mets.
Anthony, in his chat, dismissed the idea that players were avoiding SD. He pointed out Turner wanted the east coast, and Judge wanted to stay in NY. Them signing Bogaerts kind of shoots holes in that belief.
tad2b13 well said, I agree 100% I don’t think there’s a widespread bias against them. I think the team isn’t currently seen as a definite contender, the state taxes are high, the ballpark scares some guys off. Judge I agree was always likely to remain a Yankee, and Bogaerts/Nimmo the team maybe just didn’t want to go that rich on deals. The problem isn’t letting go of players you think aren’t worth the contract they get, it’s the more guys you let sign elsewhere the pool of impact players for you to sign gets smaller and smaller
Tad: I do agree with your point here too. I don’t think players are specifically a sliding the Giants, unless people mean certain players are choosing contenders, which is possible.
I don’t think people are specifically avoiding the Giants either, as much as they are actively choosing other teams. As you noted, Turner wanted to return to the east coast, Judge wanted to remain a Yankee for the lore (I though he was going to SF), and Xander received an exorbitant contract (and probably felt disrespected by Bos anyway).
SF has a beautiful stadium (probably top 2 or 3 in MLB), a very committed, intelligent fanbase, and a historic franchise. Once Farhan or his replacement figures it out the players will start signing. That’s not to imply they will be building the roster via FA, as the will likely build a core from within.
collarboners, Yeah, you’re right about the pool getting smaller. And perhaps FZ has erred in being too conservative. Only time will tell. It’s a balancing act, not so much whether to overpay, but by how much to exceed that overpay. For me the overpay for Nimmo exceeded what FZ should’ve done. Perhaps the overpay for Benentendi won’t be as extreme. But I’m just guessing here.
Don’t let these farhan lap riders get you down. You are spot on, the team is trash and they are barely pretending to try and improve it. If it’s ownership or farhan, it doesn’t matter. They’ve decided they don’t need to try and be competitive to rake in the cash.
A true fan never jumps ship, and I won’t. But that FO doesn’t deserve my limited dollars when they refuse to spend their unlimited dollars. I’ll still watch them struggle to win 75 games over the next decade while other fans get to watch star players, but I’m not helping them get their 30$ French dip sandwich.
They really sell a $20 french dip? I mean, a $20 french dip would be equally stunning..How big is it??
They sell $20 popcorn in queens
Keep in mind hat it takes two to tango. I’m as upset as you, but I don’t think it’s all on Farhan and Gabe. Let’s see how the rest of the off season plays out.
Wednesday it was estimated Nimmo would get 100-120 million. That skyrocketed to 162m. Hard pass. Giants made the right decision. The Giants won 107 games in 2021.
It’s not like they can’t put together a good team.
Since protection in a lineup is more myth than reality I doubt that’s high on his worry list. Being on a contender should be tops of his list since he’ll get paid anywhere he goes, so the job now is make yourself a contender next offseason.
What a ridiculous comment. Everyone knows that Wilmer Flores would be protecting Ohtani.
What would lead you to believe that they have any chance at signing Ohtani? He already turned them down once, and absolutely no top free agents have any interest in playing for Gabe Kapler. They won’t get anyone until they fire that hipster clown.
If Ohtani leaves the Angels in free-agency, it will be to a team he previously turned down.
I’ve never liked Kapler, who seems so polished and insincere in every remark he’s ever made, but I don’t think he’s the reason the team is getting spurned by all these FAs. I think that there’s now a perception problem that Giants have been remade in the mold of a budget A’s moneyball team and are more interested in analytical platoons than star power and a watchable team. That’s on Zaidi. I was convinced (like a lot of other fans) that it would end this season with big spending, but I think the damage has been done.
Insincere in every comment he has ever made.
Wow. That’s a big call to make on someone.
@Foppert, just being honest here. Every time I’ve heard him speak, it has the phony glib of a PR campaign; I think he missed his true calling in politics.
@scott
It’s cool. I get he is not everyone’s cup of tea but that is a harsh statement to make about someone. I’ve got it in the grossly unfair category.
I’m no fan either but I think he’s fine as a manager. And I don’t think anyone is staying away due to him. I think you’re spot on that the reputation is now ruined league wide.
I don’t think Kapler is at all “insincere,” To the contrary, I think he is a very clear-thinking man, and expresses his feelings.
If you don’t like those sincere expressions, that’s you right.
As for the platoons, that’s all Kapler has had to work with. Give him everyday bats (Like Haniger or Nimmo or Judge) and you won’t see him platooning. Of course two of those players are no longer availble, so here’s hoping Farhan signs Correa, Rodon (or Senga) and one other everyday bat.
Don’t see them signing Redon 6 or 7 years. They wouldn’t get Guasman 5 last offseason.
williemaysfield — Yeah, but things have completely changed since last off season.
Ted loves him some Kapler I see.
0% chance, set your expectations lower, much, much lower.
That’s next year. Deals MUST be done this year.
Giants are the new Padres.
The new White Sox
The old Giants to be honest. Sabean had similar issues signing free agents.
Mets way over paid for a light hitting OF that will be 30 when the season starts. 8 years? After 5 years this is a very bad contract.
Next Jacoby Ellsbury.
Jacoby Ellsbury could be one of the worst comps to Brandon Nimmo I have ever heard. They both play OF, thats about where the comparison stops.
Tell me more.
That’s true. Ellsbury was the better player, with 22.1 career rWAR vs. 17.2 for Nimmo.
Ellsbury did have one year where he randomly hit 32 home runs and received many MVP votes, but I see Nimmo’s contract going the way of Ellsbury’s with the Yankees. At best, Nimmo can remain consistent in terms of getting on base in front of Lindor, Alonso, and company throughout this contract, but I see this as an overpay for too long of an investment, same way Ellsbury’s turned out to be.
Pretty sure vaderzim meant in terms of being a financial burden, not that Nimmo and Ellsbury play the same game.
Hey grumpy, I think it a pretty good comp.
@ARC 2 100% agree
Too many years. Locked into a corner and still have just four guys signed beyond 2024. They have the CF of the future in the minors and he who’ve to a corner in two to three years. Owner has plenty of cash and a strong farm. Overpay yes, but not inhibiting on any way.
bryan c — I think it’s safe to say, that all contracts are “overpays” this year.
No argument there, ARC2. However, Mets management apparently didn’t feel safe going with Marte (34) in centerfield, or a banjo hitter like Kevin Kiermaier. Who else could the conceivably have been signed to play there?
Given this years free agent market…totally agree…..way to many years for a guy that seems to have issues staying healthy and given his stats, should thank the Lord that the Mets didn’t really have many alternatives given that Marte also has injury concerns…..
I don’t even think it’ll take 5 years.
I’ll take Nimmo at 37 then Turner and Boagarts at 41.
I’ll happily pass on all three.
Enjoy an OF cobbled together with Yaz, Slater, Haniger, and whatever B-level scrubs serve as their platoons, then.
The problem is everyone judges contracts in a vacuum. Big market teams can afford to over pay in their competitive window without worrying about that contract crippling them in any way. Around 20M AAV is not going to harm the Mets at any point during their 3-4 year window. They needed a CF with a bat right now and for the next 2 years. There was no better option. This contract would’ve been ugly for another team. For the Mets? No problem.
Heyward’s contract harmed the Cubs when the max contract they were giving out between signing Yu Darvish and Joc Pedersen was $1 million. But Cohen isn’t Ricketts…yet.
I’d argue that Ricketts is spending way less than he should be, and Heyward’s contract is less of an issue than a cheap owner. But the Heyward comparison is appropriate because I expect Nimmo to deteriorate on the same level.
Ricketts has loosened the purse strings. Now it’s in Jed’s hands, but I think he’s still a little shell shocked watching Theo get burned with Heyward. It happens more often than not with the very long term contracts that Jed has avoided so far. We’ll see if they pick up Swanson or Correa.
Heyward’s contract was a travesty from the start.
Agreed, but are the Mets the Walmart of the MLB now, and do they take teams like the Rays and squash them like a bug!!
“light hitting OF”
Career OPS+ of 130, but do go on. I don’t know what it is about Nimmo that gives everyone brain crabs and inspires such hatred, but every article about him is littered with this nonsense. Go look at articles from last offseason and you’ll see the same hate and trash talk, and then he went and put up over 5 WAR.
But only averaged WAR of 2.8 over last four seasons and was injured a lot. Cherry picking
A high wRC+ doesn’t equal “hard hitting” or more power. A guy who draws walks as frequently as Brandon Nimmo will have a high wRC+.
In 2027 you think paying 20aav for a roughly league average player will be “a very bad contract” ? For a billionaire ? I doubt it, mildly irritating at worst.
Vagiants ain’t getting Ohtani, bank it!! That’s laughable!
Ohtani will be like Judge, he will choose where he wants to go, He will get 50 million so t the big dogs will be in on him. The team that signs him will have to meet his criteria. Angels would be smart to trade hem this winter to the Dodgers and get some good players for him. They don;t want to make the same mistake the Sox did with Betts and Boegarts. The got nothing for either.!
Unless it’s a joke about the return for him, Boston definitely traded Betts and received players from LA.
Time to drain the farm
What was the Giants offer to Judge? They seem like they have been cheap the past few years
Somewhere in between $300M and $360M and they bowed out once it got upnto the Yankees’ offer of $360M.. Zaidi didn’t try to counter.
No, Giants offered $360 million and the Yankees matched that offer-
Reports are saying 9 years and 360 million
I would rather play in SF. Playing in the AL East is a lot easier to hit home runs though
Judge used the Giants to get the Yankees to put their best offer on the table. Judge wanted to be a Yankee all along and the Giants were his Plan B if the Yankees tried to go cheap. Some of the anecdotes coming out of the Judge meeting in SF make that pretty clear.
Zaidi is smart, he knows you can’t build a team through free agency, they need to have some of their prospects and trade for players that perform first. He and Bloom are stuck between a rock and a hard place!
VegasSDfan — The Giants were the FIRST to offer Judge what he eventually signed for with the Yankees. Judge used the Giants offer to raise the Yankee’s offer. The Giants aren’t cheap, but they’re damn unlucky.
Well guess Cohen was going to get what he wanted no matter the money. Makes me wonder with Benintendi, Reynolds where they could end up. Houston is looking at outfield and catching. Where will Rodon end up. I know not outfield. Just names keep seeing mentioned.
The Giants probably need to show they are real contenders before people start signing there. Even with a big signing, they still seem like #3 in the NL West.
The Giants need to sign Carlos Correa IMMEDIATELY!
Bingo!
No Benintendi needs.
Too many lefty outfielders already.
Although would be nice to take away someone from a NY team…
I’m starting to wonder if players are avoiding San Francisco on account of the city’s well-documented trouble with homelessness and crime. Not to mention high taxes in California. And with the stadium there being a pitcher’s park, hitters have to think twice.
Plus they are looking way up at the padres and dodgers in the division.
They could get Correa but I’m not sure Correa attracts other free agents. A lot of players have issues with his sign stealing comments.
LA is far worse, the area around the stadium is horrible, & yet they seem to have no problem signing anyone.
Thanks for playing.
(Braves fan)
What big city isn’t dealing with homelessness?
The real problem is San Francisco actually isn’t dealing with its homelessness.
Do tell how you think a city should be “dealing with its homelessness”.
Agreed. However, sounds like Judge – or Nimmo for that matter – were using some other teams as leverage for their huge salary demands so they could stay in the Big Apple. After all, it is a game…
Players rarely live in the heart of the cities they play for. They mostly live in ridiculously expensive and beautiful suburbs. So this has nothing to do with players signing elsewhere.
According to baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-f… Oracle has been neutral with a score of 100.
rodcannon — First, let’s get clear about Oracle: it’s no longer a “pitcher’s park.” It’s neutral. Plenty of HRs hit there. Giants were 7th in MLB in offense last year.
Two: every major city where it doesn’t drop below freezing for too long is experiencing dramatic homelessness. Crime is no greater in SF than other major cities. Thank Ronald Regan (for the homelessness) and the obscenely unbalance distribution of money in our society.
Three: With the amount of money these players are making, taxes is not an issue. Just look at the many superstars who have signed with the Dodgers, the Angels and the Padres.
Giants should definitely be focusing on Correa or Swanson. If they are intent on competing in the NL West, Brandon Crawford should not be their primary shortstop moving forward. Crawford was a helluva player and had a career year in 2021. He will end up in the Giants HOF one day, but he is not young anymore. It’s time to turn the corner or start a complete rebuild in a few years.
I don’t know that Zaidi is capable of landing top FAs with his current MO. I think this tends to hurt many of the Rays FO personnel when operating big market teams, ie, Chaim Bloom.
I think Buster Olney said it best in a Giants podcast, which was essentially: until he realizes the top FAs in this market are getting incredibly rich contracts, ie, Xander paid nearly 3x what Boston offered him to sign with SD, he’s not going to draw the FAs to the Giants.
One of the Giants podcast guys postulated that the top market guys didn’t want to go to Oracle Park because of the potential decline in offense, but I don’t buy that at all. I believe he needs to get comfortable doling out uncomfortable contracts.
Same goes for Chaim, honestly. And if Chaim loses Devers, he may want to leave the country.
Bloom spends what ownership wants him to spend, these $300m+ contracts aren’t at the sole dicretion of the GM/VP OPs. Sox had the highest payroll in MLB in 2018 and a depleted farm system. Should have blown the team up then, but its tough to do coming off a championship. Bloom was brought in to fix the system and reset the payroll. Its a multiyear process. And yet the Sox are only 1 year removed from an ALCS appearance and a playoff knockout of the Yanks and for some reason the local media and a bunch of fans want to run him out of town. Betts wasn’t resigning with Sox, Xander got a ridiculous deal, and as pure a hitter as Devers is he is terrible defensively and bound to be a 1B/DH type, someone else can pay him $300+M.
So you think Bloom was limited to offering Xander $90MM in ST? They paid more for an unproven, defensively inferior corner OF, Yoshida! And in this market, with the contracts being handed out and the RSox history of spending, it’s solely John Henry (or whomever)?
I don’t buy this. I think the problem is mutual. They bring in Bloom to cut costs and win. They think this Rays version of moneyball is great for some reason and it will work. Bloom continues to try to do it instead of saying “we need to offer “$x” for this guy because we need him. But perhaps it’s just a coincidence that it’s Rays FO personnel in large markets that typically spend a ton of money………
I think Bloom was shocked Boegarts signed with the Padres, he was hoping for a Pedroia deal! They weren’t even in the ballpark. Padres way over paid becuase this is their window, before the Big Boys Dodgers/Mets squash them like a bug.
I agree with you regarding the uncomfortable contracts, but I don’t blame him for not matching the Nimmo contract. He did offer 9/360MM to Judge according to reports and NY matched. I wonder if the ownership structure of SF is part of the bottleneck.
That’s entirely possible and may come along with the expectations of higher if these Rays FO guys, expecting them to work some kind of voodoo.
I think they’re going to have to look to Freidman’s adaptation in LA to be successful. Operating a large market like a smaller market club and never worked. The Mets tried doing it for years and it failed. Cohen finally had them operating like a big market club, albeit he swung the pendulum all the way…..
The only thing the Giants are doing is playing the fool, being used as negotiation leverage by free agents, nobody it seems wants to come play in SF. Is it the ballpark? the manager? the high taxes? the cesspool city? no chance in a strong division? I say all of the above……we are like Colorado trying to get FA pitchers to go there, no way unless a stupid huge overpay….
If you’re calling SF a “cesspool” you have no idea what you’re talking about. Watching too much FoxNews.
No, he’s right. I live here. It is.
It’s really not. There are struggles of every big city. If you can’t handle it, there’s always the suburbs.
If it’s such a cesspool why do you live there? And why would Jon Miller and Dave Fleming both live in the city?
1958giants;
First of all – I remember that team coming over from NY.
About 3 days ago I was on here saying that no name FA would sign with the Giants. Was told I was nuts and having a stroke. 2 or 3 dozen people liked the idiots comment.
Now….
One or two players does not make a baseball team. A FA coming to a team and signing a 5-plus year contract is not only looking at the money – which 95% of posters here think – they’re looking at the situation they’ll be walking into.
The Giants currently are fielding a team of primarily 2nd rate position players and utility guys, so the line-up changes every day. The pitching staff has maybe 4-5 good to very good pitchers…out of the 13 on the roster. The defense is awful. The manger brings politics to the park – unfortunately he doesn’t bring the ability to work with his coaching staff to make the players better. The Giants farm system is average at best, and in 2022 many of their better prospects regressed.
What that says is that any player going in there on a 5-plus year contract is going to pretty much get stuck in a bad situation, and will be asking for a trade within 2 years. Which is what I wrote 3 days ago. So their agents do the smart thing – use the Giants to run up the salary they can get elsewhere from a team that is at least competitive and has an decent future the next 5 years.
Giants need a new owner, Baseball Ops head and manager. Then they need to give them 3-4 years to begin to straighten out that situation.
To set the record straight, this is what happened with Samuel 3 days ago.
“Hello….anybody there….no one’s listening to me….please….I keep repeating my opinion on the Giants and no one will comment anymore and allow me to show off my knowledge. Hello……. I’m here…. please…….cmon. Oh well, let me try another thread”
Some of the “idiots” got a bit sick of it and called him out for the narcissistic desire to keep repeating himself. Since then he has been crying about name calling over his opinion. It wasn’t about the opinion.
Get over yourself, Samuel.
Eh, it’s maybe even simpler than that. If the money is equal(i.e. Judge with SF and NYY), do elite players really want to be the sole star in a otherwise mediocre lineup? When Heyman reported Judge to SF, the projected Giants lineup with Judge in it was utterly laughable and he stuck out like a sore thumb. Barring a colossal overpay which isn’t within Farhan’s DNA, its going to take some second tier pieces falling in place before the Giants land an elite free agent bat.
It’s silly to apply one reason for a player signing where he does, especially when none of us know what the reasons are. It’s reasonable to assume that Judge likes playing and living in NY.
A lot of players wouldn’t change from a team where they’ve spent their entire 7 year career, if that home team matched a big offer from another team. Especially in a big market with endorsement opportunities and everything else a market like NY provides.
To say definitively that it’s all about Judge not wanting to be the sole star is complete conjecture on your part. Why would Seager have signed with the Rangers if players generally felt that way.
Your post is a weak criticism poorly disguised as a attempted dig against FZ.
Giants should bring back Rodon at the very least.
He opted out for a reason.
Probably not coming back realistically. Bring up Kyle Harrison and move on. Rodon asking for too many years.
Yes he opted out to receive a bigger contract. The contract was structured as a prove it deal with a bit of security for Rodón if the first year did not go as anticipated.
Yeah he opted out because he can make an additional $140 million – I assume you love your job so much you wouldn’t leave for a measly $140m – geez
Just saying without Judge Rodon is not coming back.
Especially with the seven years he wants that Zaidi has never paid and Harrison this close to ready.
gfan — You’ve taken a VERY simplistic opinion of the situation.
I think if there are new owners in talks to buy the Angels, they are probably asking Perry to try and negotiate with Ohtani and his agent already.
Trade for Reynolds.
Hjelle, Ramos & Gonzales?
It’s not happening for those three. Pirates will want Luciano and Harrison plus.
gfan — Again, you are not being realistic.
Lotta dunking on Nimmo, Turner deals cuz of the back end. Everyone paying for decline years to get peak years. If PHI or NYM win next year, it’s all just noise. SFG will land one or 2 of these big fish
Nobody wants to go to SF if they don’t have to. High taxes, dysfunctional government, rampant homelessness and drug use.
Sounds like you’ve never been to Milwaukee.
No one wants to sign with the bucks, packers or brewers either.
It is funny seeing everyone turn down the giants and their fans act like they’ll sign Ohtani next year. Milwaukee is just as big of a cesspool though
Actually, I was born in Milwaukee and lived there until I was 18. It’s a nice city – very midwestern and blue collar. Crime is high right now but last trip there in October was quite pleasant. SF used to be the crowning jewel of American cities. No longer. It’s become a cesspool of high taxes, increasing crime, laughable government policies, rampant homelessness and drug use. There’s no way I would move my young family there.
Oh and last I recall, one of the reasons why Giannis resigned with the Bucks is because he truly loves Milwaukee. Don Sutton used to say that every MLB player should experience playing in Milwaukee. Really good sports town and decent place to raise a family.
Spare me the right wing talking points about Cali and San Fran specifically. You’ve never lived there but you repeat back what right wing media has told you over and over again. Funny, I don’t see you whining about all the high crime, high murder rate, high poverty, low education red states though.
It’s not a talking point. It’s a fact. Amongst major US cities, SF led the nation in burglary rates in 2020. My guess is those numbers have increased as homeless and drug activity has spun out of control. Add to that very high taxes and you have a city in huge decline. If I were a young player, it would be hard to seriously consider SF as a place to raise my family.
A basic internet search just revealed you are wrong. San Fran was not even in the top 10 for most burglaries in 2020. Number 1 was Houston followed by Seattle and Vegas. California as a state was 16th in the country for overall burglary rate in 2020. The top 7 states for burglary rate were all red states. I’m sure right wing media never told you that though.
By the way, Top 10 most dangerous cities in America in 2022 does not feature San Fran. Seems like the Warriors and 49ers are doing just fine recruiting athletes. Got some more made up “facts.”? LOL
Not a fact. Seattle led the nation in burglary rate in 2020 followed by Albuquerque, then Memphis. Yes, SF was in top ten, but how many MLB cities are there too.
Two homegrown players get crazy money thrown at them to stay and SF’s supposed crime rate is the reason? Quick note for ya, players who live in posh East Bay or Peninsula digs don’t have to drive through the Tenderloin to get to the ballpark.
Wrong. According to sfgate.com, San Francisco had the highest rate of burglaries in 2020 for any major city when compared to a baseline of the previous three years’ worth of data. That is a fact. Its 47.02% increase was higher than Seattle, New York, Portland, Philly and Minneapolis. I didn’t say they had the most burglaries, but their rate of increase was the highest. That is a fact.
You sure love to move the goalposts when you’re proven wrong. San Fran was not #1 so now it’s “rate of increase” that was highest. Why aren’t you concerned about the 7 states that are red that lead the top 10 rates of burglaries in the nation? Why are you less concerned that Texas has 4 cities in the top 10? But I’m sure you don’t have a political agenda or anything. The governmental policies in Texas are even more laughable than the ones you complain about in San Fran.
I said most burglaries, not rate. Maybe try reading more closely before tripping over yourself to correct someone.
Sorry, Mr. Pelosi. I’ll try to slow things down for you. In my initial post, I discussed burglary RATES. The post I reviewed came directly from sfgate.com. sfgate.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-Chesa…
That loving account of Milwaukeevdoesn’t make your comments on SF true.
Sorry Ron Johnson, first you said SF had the highest burglary rate in 2020 (untrue). So now you’re claiming highest increase in burglary rate. (for 2020 is true) Do you even understand the distinction?
If I were a homeless junkie, I’d head to SF.
BucksPackersBrewersWow — So wrong.
Exactly who cares what didn’t happen for the Giants….is this a “feel good” article so that their fans feel as if they are trying to improve?
Way too many articles, just like the Padres pursuing anyone who can walk, chew gum, and breath at the same time…..
Turner wanted to go East as indicated by him knocking back a huge offer from the Padres.
Judge obviously wanted to stay a Yankee and used them as leverage. Played it well. Giants were aware but had a dig. You can criticise them for that if you like but what options are there other than do your best and see what happens. You only imagine the firestorm if they didn’t.
Nimmo got a massive deal to stay at his existing club.
Unfortunate and disappointing for sure but there is no reason to blame anyone for anything in those situations.
Now do Stanton, Harper, and Soto!
They wanted a team that was closer to winning at those points in time ? The FO had a deal in place for Stanton from what I understand.
At the end of the day, easy targets are just that for weak people. If that is how they deal with disappointment, go for your life. My personal preference is to try and understand rather than fire bullets. When the intelligent, highly successful people that run the Giants decide there are better people to put in the FO, I’ll give them the same respect.
Nobody in their right mind would sign with the Giants.
Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Let’s see, that’s Stanton, Harper, Soto, Judge, and Nimmo that the management was “all in on”. maybe start examining the reasons why free agents DON’T come to SF? Fans don’t want to hear “but we made an offer too!”
Giants will have to overwhelm any top free agent with stupid money. All things equal, guys have better options.
In the end, it has to be the right player to give stupid money to. Nimmo at eight years and Rodón at seven aren’t it. Only one left this year, I feel, is Correa.
Agreed, unless that player puts you over the top. Rodon can do that for a few teams. Many pitchers have been over paid in free agency and their team has won a world series, but only A-Rod has won a world series after signing a free agent big contract. Betts’s contract kicked in a year later. They won in a short season.
The giants will have to overpay as the Padres did. The padres will suck after 2023 -2025 and be a below-500 team again, Padres will have way too many overpaid and over years old players.
Hard to believe this is the same organization that was in the midst of a dynasty ten years ago
Yes, a dynasty with no high-priced free agents.
I now hope the Giants stay out of this madness and develop their own. I’m guessing time will prove Nimmo was the most I’ll-conceived signing in the history of the game.
You’re definitely not wrong. I hope Harrison and Luciano can be the next Bum and Posey but I’m skeptical
I know this guy is good and had an OPS+ of 130, but looks like he got paid for an .275 15HR 65RBI season.. Seems good average on the outside
Sounds like the Giants and Padres are really salty about missing out on top players.
Nobody wants to play for those teams.
Why do you think they keep turning down more money. If the Dodgers offered the same money, they would have been willing to sign a contract.
Not much of a better chance winning a ring with the Dodgers
I definitely agree. The Dodgers have made no attempt to sign any top players this offseason. I guess they are going to take a season off to save money to sign a big contract next year.
Wtf are you talking about? Have you seen the Padres lineup? They’re stacked.
If the Padres are so stacked, how did they finish 22 games behind the Dodgers, and only 8 games ahead of the Giants?
I don’t think the Padres are well stacked as one would think. On paper they look pretty darn good. Their pitching is still below average. And the bullpen is not any better.
These baseball analyst like to boost the fan base to give them hope. So people like yourself believe that next season is the year for a WS championship. Gives the fans something to look forward to.
Remember this. Padres team looks good on paper. Anything can happen. Injuries is a big issue especially in baseball. That’s what happened to the Dodgers. They started the season with a roster full of MVP
Players. And one by one they were dealing with injuries. Anything can happen. Remember that.
Why strap yourself with overly long contracts……good business sense looks at the potential upside of the investment….the player wants long term security…..the team wants a long term positive return on their investment…..5 or 6 years should be the max
Because sports is about winning and competition. The WS winner is the team that wins the games in the field, usually with great players / team. I’ve never seen an award handed out in sports for excellence in long-term contract investments. Additionally, show me a franchise that goes all in to win and I’ll show you a rabid fanbase that spends money. Show me an ownership that says, “Hey fans, we aren’t going to win anything, but rest assured, we are going to spend my money wisely” and I’ll show you a failing team.
Wait till they create the “Mike Trout” award for execellence in non post-season games. Awarded once every 15 years Clip!
Yes I agree with you but many many times the team that spends the most doesn’t win the most.
Look at Dodgers and Padres with HUGE payrolls and then look at the Braves that had relatively low payroll and they ended up winning the WS.
The Padres this next season will have a $900 million infield and the Dodgers after free spending didn’t get them the trophy have been really quiet this free agent season.
It’s telling when a player turns down San Fran for NYC. The civil unrest, robotic cops, poverty, and abandoned, rouge shopping carts is too much even by NY standards. San Francisco did this to herself.
Yes because clearly a homegrown Met player who was given 8 years for $162M only choose the Mets because Cali has a homeless problem that right wing media has told you about over and over again. Don’t you have an election to whine about losing….again.
I really don’t think the cities themselves had anything to do with Judge’s decision. He has a decade of legacy in pinstripes. Why would he jump ship to SF if NY was willing to match their offer? He got the money he deserved and got to stay where he built his legacy. That’s having your cake an eating it, too.
What kind of a return would Logan Webb bring?
I almost feel that they should trade everyone of value.
Central Valley;
You’re a very good poster and a great Giants fan.
I’m sorry it’s come down to that.
Give it a month before you throw in the towel. Haninger signing is an improvement. Correa is still out there and we have some young guns coming up. Villar may be a stud. JD Davis might pan out, and Harrison could be the next Bumgarner.
The Giants play in probably the second most beautiful ballpark in Baseball and can’t get anyone to sign it seems. What is going on in San Francisco is crazy
Judge stayed with the Yankees and Nimmo stayed with the Mets. Both homegrown guys. I don’t think Giants fans should’ve expected either one. I don’t think this is an indictment on the Giants organization or the city.
I think there were a variety of factors but I did hear something that makes me curious as to whether it made a difference for SF specifically. Judge was reportedly going to seek information / guarantees / plans in how his prospective agency of the future was going to build toward championship contention in the immediate future. I know this is somewhat common now amongst upper-tier FAs, especially if they wish to play for contending teams.
I don’t know Zaidi, so this isn’t an indictment on him, rather a question, but is it possible his plan or presentation is just…poor?
Possibly it’s Zaidi’s pitch or Judge feels like they have unfinished business in NY and genuinely enjoys playing there with that team as it is now.
Gravel: Yeah, I agree, I think there were several reasons why Judge (and others) made his decision, including the reasons you stated. In fact, I believe it has much more to do with the players’ personal desires than SF or Zaidi.
I was providing another suggestion as perhaps one that may be a common thread….
I think after last season they are skeptical of them being contenders/making the post-season.
Who cares what the Giants offer when they lose?
Maybe if San Francisco would clean up their dumpster of a city player would actually want to sign there.
I don’t care how much money is San Francisco, no one wants to play “dodge the junkie” on their way home after games.