12:29pm: A source tells MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes that the report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect. It is not known specifically what Machado is seeking, or whether his camp made a counteroffer to the Padres’ offer to add five years and $105MM to his existing contract.
With Machado’s February 16 deadline having passed, it seems his impending return to the free agent market will be a storyline throughout this highly anticipated Padres season.
10:19am: Padres and third baseman Manny Machado had some extension talks recently, to try to prevent him from opting out of his contract at the end of this season. Reports yesterday indicated the club was willing to tack an extra five years and $105MM to his current deal, but Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports that was $145MM short of his asking price.
Machado originally signed a ten-year, $300MM deal with the Padres that affords him the opportunity to opt out midway through, after the fifth season. He will have five years and $150MM remaining when that opportunity rolls around this fall. Given that he’s played at MVP-caliber levels, especially last year, he could certainly find a guarantee larger than that on the open market. It’s long seemed like he would lean towards triggering that opt-out and recently admitted that he does indeed plan to do so. With the extra five years and $105MM, the club was effectively offering him a ten-year, $255MM deal starting with 2024. Nightengale reports that Machado’s camp was seeking $400MM over that same ten-year stretch, or an extra $250MM on top of his current deal.
Given that massive gap between the two sides, it’s not surprising that a deal didn’t come together. Aaron Judge was coming off one of the best seasons in recent history and earned himself a $360MM contract this offseason, one of the largest deals ever. That Machado and his reps are setting their sights above that range is quite ambitious, but also understandable. The player has the security of knowing that he has that $150MM secured, even if he should suffer some kind of worst-case scenario such as a career-altering injury this year. That gives him the leverage to set a really high asking price since driving a hard bargain right now doesn’t create any risk of coming up empty-handed.
For the Padres, it’s not surprising that they balked at such an ask. They’ve been quite aggressive in recent years, including their previous deal with Machado, their $340MM extension for Fernando Tatis Jr., $280MM deal with Xander Bogaerts and others. However, the kind of deal that Machado was seeking would have been on another level.
In addition to the straightforward cash dealings to consider, they also have the luxury tax to think about. It was recently reported that the club’s competitive balance tax calculation places them narrowly below the third tier of $273MM, with recent deals for players like Michael Wacha and Yu Darvish intentionally structured in ways that lower their respective tax hits. Going over that line would lead to increased taxation as well as their top pick in the 2024 draft being dropped by ten slots.
The CBT is calculated by the average annual value of a deal, not a player’s salary in a given season. Machado’s current deal comes with a $30MM hit but the extension he sought would effectively turn the contract into a $550 deal over 15 years for tax purposes, combining the $400MM he sought for the future and the $150MM that he will have earned at the end of 2023. That would increase his tax hit to $36.67MM, adding to the club’s tax hit and surely bumping them over that threshold.
Since Machado’s camp reportedly set a deadline of February 16 for contract talks, it seems that a deal won’t be coming together at this time. It’s always possible that the Padres come back with an offer strong enough to make him reconsider that position, but given their tax situation, it seems that things are aligned for Machado to play out the season and hit the open market again. He would be one of the top free agents in the class alongside players like Shohei Ohtani and Aaron Nola. The Padres could always re-sign him at that point, but they will surely have competition from other clubs around the league.
Machado’s tenure with the club has been largely successful. After not qualifying for the postseason since 2006, they’ve been there twice in the past three years. Machado launched 32 home runs last year and hit .298/.366/.531 for a wRC+ of 152. He produced 7.4 wins above replacement in the eyes of FanGraphs and came in second in the National League Most Valuable Player voting, trailing only Paul Goldschmidt. They have been aggressive this winter in adding free agents and seem poised for another strong season in 2023, but whether they can keep their star third baseman around beyond that remains to be seen.
Manny being Manny
Poor, poor Manny. I feel sooo sorry for him.
What Machado might be doing though, could end up being a bit of a saving grace for baseball though. It might cause the owners to consider a players character and greed level, before offering generous ‘opt outs’, in overly generous long term contracts.
On second thought, nah, they’re too greedy too.
Another simpleton taking up for the BILLIONAIRE. billionaires didn’t billionaires from being some type of greedy at all, huh?
Another one……you don’t agree with someone’s comment so you feel the need to insult. I thought that it was a well thought out comment whether I agreed or not.
“Poor, Poor Manny” character, overly generous contract is a well thought out comment? You obviously have LOW standards. EARNED contract would be suited. But, agree or not
Manny really is greedy. How much $ does any one human need? I read this super cool article about John Jaso the other day in the NYT. He retired “early-ish” to go live a life he felt more at peace with. But he said this (which to me, says it all):
“But he found the M.L.B. life to be unfulfilling in some unexpected ways. “Baseball set me up for life,” he said. “I love it, and I respect it. But it was part of this culture of consumerism and overconsumption that began to weigh really heavily on me. Even when I retired, people said: ‘You might be walking away from millions of dollars!’ But I’d already made millions of dollars. Why do we always have to have more, more, more?”
Jaso made $17MM in his career.
BiLlIoNaIrEs BaD
I bet poorer people then you wonder why you are so greedy and ask for more money from your work. When is enough enough for you?
he report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect
Another person refuting that doesn’t mean it’s incorrect. That’s one source versus another. Maybe, Machado got slapped into his senses by Will Smith, and he took back his original 400 million comment. Really, fans pay more money and endure ads and that Crypto scam company sponsoring instant replay just to fulfill the player’s demand for that 10% inflation per year since 1980.
Cool story about John Jaso. I am a Padres fan, so I wish Manny Machado will complete his contract in SD, but I just can’t see why he would.
If he finishes his 10 year contract in SD, he will be 36, and very possibly will struggle to get high value, multi year contracts. He might just eke out a few more years like latter day Rickey Henderson or some other aging veteran.
If he opts out after 2023, he can secure employment past his 41st birthday. If he is so horrible that he cannot bear to step onto the field, he can just retire.
John Jaso was probably looking at a few more years eking it out between the majors and the minors, so a completely different situation from Manny’s. However, it looks like he came close, but did not quite hit 10 full years in MLB, so didn’t qualify for the generous pension. I would think he put a lot of thought into that when he retired. He can add service time by being a coach.
@mets6986. Jaso’s $17MM in career earnings would be WAY MORE than enough for me (that’s a pre-tax # mind you). Why does Manny need or want another $400 on top of what he’s already made? Fair is fair….as in, get paid for your value. But that’s beyond greedy. How about spreading that around to the 50% of Big Leaguers who never make it to FA? How about paying the Minor league guys a living wage? Like our great nation, the wealth is too concentrated on top. That’s all I’m really saying….
The last 4 words of dogbones post–“they’re too greedy too”. Keyser SIMPLETON Soze.
Jaso retired because of issues caused by multiple concussions. Not because he was a magnanimous soul that just wanted to go sailing. He couldn’t see the ball anymore.
These idiots WANT to bag on Machado. Hate is more important than reality. Never mind the fact that Nightengale is ALWAYS wrong. Have you EVER seen a Nightengale rumor that proved to be correct? No one has.
Jaso is an extremely rare individual. How many people have enough talent to make it into MLB without being extremely driven? Almost anyone who doesn’t have extreme drive is going to languish in the minors if they can even get that far professionally.. The two things tend to go hand in hand.
It sounds like Jaso may have changed his views on life. I think I could walk away once I made $17 million. I also know I never had the kind of drive and dedication required for earning that much money. I had other priorities. My point is that people who don’t have a need for more will almost never get to that level of success. They will prioritize other things in their lives. Nothing at all wrong with it. It is a personal choice. I’m not going to judge people on their priorities in their lives.
@websoulsurfer, honestly, I didn’t know anything about Jaso prior to reading the NYT article. I believe, from the article, that he wanted a different life than pro ball . He was drawn to the nomadic life of sailing long distances. That said the only reason I brought up Jaso was to state that some pro players are satisfied with “a little” bit of cash, not the piles and piles ala Machado, Soto, Judge, etc.
Why do you think it’s your right to determine how much someone else earns? Most of us would love to make the league minimum and your claiming they are neglected. Nobody forces minor leaguers to play. It’s a choice that they make. Most of them sign fairly lucrative contracts out of the draft. The open fair market will determine his worth and it’s not greedy to accept what someone is willing to pay you.
Mets 5 years 50m a year WOWS!
So I hope you also called judge and Turner greedy for opting out of their contracts…
Or degrom
Or any of the other hundreds of players who opt out because the market changes
Dude has been an MVP level player for years now, just watched his team offer judge and Turner 400m and 360m respectively.
You could argue that he has been much more valuable than Turner, and considering his elite defense and overall WAR, that he is close to the same conversation as judge in terms of value and team value.
So again, why wouldn’t he opt out?
Not like he’s breaking his contract
If they didn’t want him to opt out, then don’t give him an opt out
It’s not that he is opting out, but rather that he wants double (or whatever the real story is). The guy is being a lunatic, and it hurt Carlos Correa big time. He lost at least a 70-80 million guarantee and signed with the same team. I hope ot happens here. I’d say Judge is particularly hate able because he had a career year in a contract year and turned down fair value. Mets fans hate deGrom since his last 2 years were elite but injury-prone. Sure, he dominated and was a workhorse early on, but it’s the recency bias that comes into play. Machado really is basing this on his last season. I hope he repeats his 2020 season since at least 1 team is always willing to overblow the last season to blow the market away. It’s bad for the sport that salary inflation is 10% and regular inflation has usually been 2-3 percent for regular guys. Machado is one of the reasons.
Easy there @Mets….take a breather. No fight here. I never claimed to have any rights regarding any of this. I am simply stating my opinion. If it were my right to determine what FAs made, I would cap it @ $200MM. But, I would also spread the remaining owners’ cash among all the non-superstars that are still essential to making baseball work and fun to watch. Just my opinion my friend.
On one hand Manny could be being dumb and/or greedy. On the other hand, he is set for life, so why not take a gamble?
Manny is already set for life but jealous fans will always say a player is “being greedy” whenever they want what they are worth.
I don’t care if people like Manny or hate him, his numbers are undeniable. He’s been an offensive force playing in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in the league.
Now, do I think Machado will get anything close to his asking price? Absolutely not but he should be looking at at least 300-350 million on the open market if he puts up the type of numbers he has for the past 5 years.
Based on the math, Machado is asking for a 410 million dollar contract, but given the years the Padres gave Bogaerts and the rumored number for Judge and Turner, it wouldn’t surprise me if he is thinking a 12 year deal.
suit – I agree with you on the dumb part in that he shouldn’t have gone public 9 months early with his plan to opt out. He had nothing to gain from it and it makes him look like a jerk again. Apparently he didn’t learn from his new teammate who despite the fact everyone expected him to opt out of his Red Sox contract, not once did he say he would until he said it after the 2022 season. That’s the difference between class and ass.
And for him to be so presumptuous that he won’t sustain a severe injury or have a season that’s similar or worse to 2019 makes him look even more ignorant.
Hes set for life, no matter which way you look at it I think it would sink the Padres cash flow for the future
Players driving hard negotiations isn’t “greed”, it’s just good business. If I had the leverage to negotiate an extra $100M out of my employer, I’d do it without a second thought – anyone in that position would be a moron not to.
Team owners make plays for this kinda cash all the time – why is it good business when they do it, and “greed” and “bad character” when players do?
Because in today’s world, everything turns on resentments.
“why is it good business when they do it, and “greed” and “bad character” when players do?”
Im a Red Sox fan and I see the exact opposite. Red Sox owners are constantly being accused of being “cheap” and “greedy”, even though they have a top 5 payroll almost every year. Not many are accusing Bogaerts of being “greedy” for taking the crazy money from SD. I guess its where you live/team you root for.
As for Machado, people (including myself) don’t like him. He’s a dirtbag player. So, when he makes the news, youre going to hear negative no matter what.
Manny has turned his Image around in San Diego
Over the Last 3 years. I’ve watched about 150 + games a year. PLAYS HURT, the Leader of the Team. Sure, he has done some stuff in the Past. AJ has done some trading to anticipate Mannys leaving. TATIS is the Insurance Policy.
I’m a red sox fan and I have zero problem with players using their leverage and getting paid.
I am all for any player signing as lucrative a contract as they possibly can. Even the best of them can only play for so many years. I know that Manny is set for life, but it’s good that more ordinary players have some financial security when the big paychecks stop.
Red Sox owners are being accused of being stupid. Of spending their money poorly. Last place with a top 5 payroll is not smart.
This is a really bad take .
It’s surprising to me how many educated fans today still want players to take a home town discount , call them greedy when they don’t all so a owner can have that money instead .
No one is complaining when star players are out performing their pay during the pre arb / arb years of their career .
Let him walk. Sucks because he grew on a lot of us last year. Good riddance, Manny!
The Padres only have theirselves to blame here.
The Padres are trying to play the luxury tax game with Machado the way they did with Bogaerts and Wacha and the way they were rumored with Judge and Turner. Manny is worth every bit of a 35 million AAV and he is rightfully asking for that. He’s looking at Turner getting 12 years, Bogaerts getting 11 and saying he wants 12 as well. No way in the world would he accept what equates to a 10 year 265 million contract
I’d be fine with them giving him a new 10/320 deal. Anything more he’s just not worth. Turner and bogaerts AAVs are much lower. Manny already has been paid 150mm (after this year). The guys you listed just got their first big deals.
No he hasn’t. He will have been paid 140 million after this season.
drasco – In referencing Xander and Turner you seem to not understand WHY they received so many years.
Xander is getting $25.5M AAV and Turner is getting $27.3M AAV.
Will Manny accept that low an AAV for the years he wants? Doubtful.
Made 150m in 5 years wows!
Nope. He got 10mm first year, 20mm signing bonus. He will have made 150mm after this year.
No, I get why they have those deals but both players got substantially more money than they were projected to earn on top of those years.
The Padres weren’t willing to give Machado more years (apparently) like they did with Bogaerts and the other rumored players. Bogaerts got 4 years and an extra 90 million than his projection, Turner got three years and 32 million.
Machado is worth 10/350 million on the open market but we will go ahead and say 10/320. If the Padres made it 14 years 360 million, I’m sure Machado would sign.
150 million
Machado is under contract for one more year before the opt out for $30 million. He would be due 5/150 in 2024-2028 if he doesn’t opt out.
By offering 5/105 the Padres were saying they would pay him 11/285. $30 million in 2023, $150 million for 2024-2028. And $105 million for 2028-2032.
Manny is actually asking for 5/145 on top of the 5/150. That would pay him $30 million in 2023, $150 million from 2024-2028, and $145 million from 2028-2032. A total of 11/325.
How about a 15 year/405 million contract? 27 million AAV and the last 3 or 4 years maybe not even worth half that. The Padres’ offer seems fair. And if Manny thinks he deserves more, fair enough. As a Padres fan, I’d rather them spend that money on a younger Soto anyways.
I thought he was making 20 a year but is making 30 and wants like 50 a year?
@websoulsurfer. As you obviously know, MLBTR published an incorrect report that Manny was asking for 10 years/$400 MM, but where did you get the news that his side was asking for 5/145 on top? I can’t seem to find that reported anywhere.
WSS made up the $145m thing just like he always does across his many burner accounts. Nowhere has it been reported that Manny specifically wants x amount to forego his opt-out. Well… the $400m thing was reported but was later said to have been inaccurate.
who knows what’s actually going on in contract negotiations, and frankly public shouldn’t know. We can all discuss when there’s a conclusion
You know websoulsurfer is also Pads Fans, outinleftfield and BaseballisLife right?
more the merrier?
Radio in San Diego. The Padres play these things very close to the vest, so unless Lozano leaks that info, we will not see that reported until the WBC is over and this is resolved.
interesting, we’ll see how it plays out
Of course his “source” is something we have no way of confirming.
Neither Manny or his agent ever asked for 5/$145m.
@justme789 on the flip side, can you confirm that to be the case?
yep
We will see. Come back when the news comes out on the major sports sites.
What we know for certain is that neither Machado nor Lozano ever mentioned 5/250. That was another lie from Nightengale.
I don’t think there is a right or wrong in this scenario… they all possess incredible generational wealth, but the only reason they’re both asking for more is because of us (the fans). I’ve made the mistake (plenty of times) of taking one side or the other, depending on which player/team.
In many ways, it’s akin to contemporary politics, where the country is completely divided over issues that politicians on both sides flame intentionally out of their own greed (enough about that crap).
So, Manny is a great player, clearly top-10 in MLB (perhaps top-5, depending on perspective). Therefore, he wants top-5 AAV for position players. The ownership understandably is looking at his FV, their own budget, the exorbitant amount they offered him already, and decides, “that’s too much for us.” Likewise, they have their own team needs, both now and in the future (ie, Soto) that they need to address instead of making Manny feel fulfilled.
Both sides are correct, imho, and both sides are also incredibly greedy – but they both have a right to be.
the report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect
Or Manny being a guy who’s EARNED the right to ask for what he thinks he’s worth. It’s not coming out your pocket, it’s coming out of a Billionaire’s pocket.
Padres would be stupid to give him a bigger contract. let him walk. He will be over 30 and has only 4 good years left at the most. So why sign him beyond the next 5 years when most players on the downside after 35.
Padres effd up with the X deal
@keyser
If you don’t understand how this all comes out of the fans’ pockets, I just can’t help you, at all.
Some people can’t see the forest for the trees. They think billionaires just print their own money and the economy is magic.
Everything in EVERY comes out of the consumers pockets, DUH. Companies/Owners use it as an excuse to raise prices on consumers. I know how it works, so I don’t need your help at all. Just keep lobbying for the Billionaires who make billions from tv contracts and advertising. Maybe you nee some help understanding
Padres raised ticket prices in 2022 (20%) and again in 2023 (18%). Nothing is coming out of a “billionaire’s pocket”. You don’t get that rich by throwing money away.
Keyser, You definitely are a small picture guy. No 65 inch flat screens for you.
How many $16 beers do you order at the games? Oh you don’t go?? Wonder why?
I love going to spring training. I don’t even bother going to the ST games. $100 tickets are stupid to pay. The backfields where the minor leaguers are working out, is where I’ll be.
The fans pay these salaries – and the piranha agents just encourage much of this greed. There will eventually be a breaking point.
The question Stymeed, is who you want to get your money. The player who provides the entertainment you pay to see or the owner of the team.
Dog, its obvious you don’t go to spring training games because tickets are not $100. Not even $50.
In the previous CBA players received 37% of the revenue MLB earned. So who is greedy? The players? Or the owners?
We get it keyser, every business -owner is bad. Every employee is good.
An oversimplification by someone that has never run a business
Your “understanding” amounts to economics 101, it doesnt seem real advanced, no offense.
$100 tickets, $15 beers, $10 hot dogs. THAT”S how it comes out of our pockets, simpleton.
Those prices are being charged because those are the prices people are willing to pay. Maybe you shouldn’t call anyone a simpleton when it’s so clear that you don’t have a grasp of basic economics.
Exactly, BLUE! Couldn’t have said it better
“Those prices are being charged because those are the prices people are willing to pay.”
You mean corporations are willing to pay? Right? The vast majority of income from ticket sales are from corporations that own the tickets, boxes, etc. Then, they write off a big portion of that cost as an expense. The average “people” cant afford those prices.
“basic economics” with massive loopholes.
Blue nailed it. Everything you get charged for when going to a game is based on supply and demand. From the cost of a hot dog to luxury box seats. You don’t like it? Stop paying for anything MLB related.
That’s the way the world works. I charge a price for my labor.. Then someone charges me for their labor,.
And FWIW, I heard it is no longer mandatory to buy a $15 beer. I usually knock back a bucket of Heineken at the local Dominican joint before I go into the stadium.
In a few years payrolls will be a billion dollars so the prices can rise even more.
You are right I’ve heard of this billionaire scheme
The athletes who compete their way up through the system to become the players we want to watch to play this game, the ones who having succeeded in reaching the majors entirely on merit to become the players team owners voluntarily pay for their abilities — those are the people who we’re supposed to resent. Such a strange idea, and weirdly prevalent.
For the 2 teams that we can see their books because they are owned by a publicly traded company, less than 5% of ticket sales for both teams were corporate accounts. I doubt other teams are much different.
The Padres average ticket price in 2022 was $27.44. Average. That was after raising ticket prices.
Who cares whose pocket it’s coming out of?
This mentality is strange to me. Do you analyze every situation by taking the side who has “less” money? Manny isn’t a sweatshop worker.
In the end, Manny has a right to opt-out as he negotiated to do, and the Padres have a right to renegotiate. It’s called business.
You think the Padres would have figured out when they massively over payed for Bogaerts, that Machado would be looking to be next? Bogaerts was a good player for the Red Sox, and in the prime of his career…. but yet they paid him for maybe 2 to 3 years of “prime” ( which is debatble), then they have 8 more years of past his prime. Machado is in the same boat.
$25 mil per for Xander is cheap bro
Cooper, The Padres already offered Machado $5 million more than Bogaerts got for the same ages. 11/285 including 2023.
Machado asked for $40 million more. I am quite sure they will figure something out before the WBC is over.
Manny is simply exercising his right within a contract that the club also signed, therefore there is nothing nefarious going on, it’s well within reason and completely allowed. If the club didn’t want something like this to occur, don’t put the opt out in the contract, pretty simple.
40 to 50 million a year?? Lets get real please. Who does he think he is Babe Ruth??
Imagine what Barry Bonds would get I’d he hit free agency after 2004 and were 10-15 years younger. Even at his age, he’d trounce the 43.3 AAV for Scherzer – maybe 50-55 million or higher
Quite possible but not definite that Machado was seeking $145MM more than offered for just five years.
At this point, a $250MM guarantee on an extension may be his primary goal for an extension over possibly five or six or maybe even seven years.
Nightengale lied. Again. Dierkes called him out on his lie by saying his rumor is incorrect.
Well that’s pretty rough. Different sources can say different things.
It’s not rough. Its reality. Can you find a single time when a Nightengale rumor proved to be true?
This one was shot down within hours.
What is interesting is that all the media outlets went with the 10yr/$400MM story, but as far as I can see, only MLBTR has retracted that story as incorrect.
The negotiation of a person’s salary shouldn’t be so public on a blow-by-blow basis (unless they are publicly elected). My personal opinion. And if indeed Manny’s side asked for $40 MM more than the Pads offered, I agree they will come to agreement and fairly soon. But who knows what’s really going on?
More baseless information giving oxygen to wild and sometimes hateful conclusions. Hey it’s the 2023s.
Acee and MLB Network are reporting that sources are saying the $400 figure is incorrect.
Quibbling over only $145 million. Sheesh.
Let the market dictate the price. True capitalism. SD can extend Soto without Manny contract
Except Soto, with all his Adam Dunn like abilities, will want even more.
I guess if you ignore the fact that Soto’s worse year by OPS+ was better then Dunn’s best year AND Soto is in the 90th percentile in K% (i.e only 10% better) where Dunn led the league in K’s 4 times while topping out at 222.
Silly take.
Papi, add to that the fact that Soto had a 20.5 BB% rate last season. Better than anyone else by 5%.
These contracts are getting so stupid.
Owners can afford them
How do you know?
How do you not know? Owners wouldn’t sign off on them otherwise lol
At least one owner just refused to.
Cincy, because small market teams like the Padres are spending money and because Manfred said that revenue in 2019 was $10.7 billion and it went up to over $12 billion for 2022. Player payroll was $4.5 billion last season. Owners can afford several billion more in player CBT payroll.
Here is a thought: maybe they can afford them only due to fans generating that revenue for them: we pay more in tickets and consume way more ads than before to satiate the greedy players. Trust me when I say this: baseball jerseys and fan apparel are certainly not cheap.
Trust me when I say this, fans generating revenue pales in comparison to TV contracts. So, don’t give yourself too much credit
Think why TV contracts are so high. It’s due to mlre and more ads. Remember those in-game ads that often cut into the game? Those are due to players blowing up payrolls via free agency.
Keysor, you are correct. For most teams TV accounts for 70% of revenue That $200 jersey, less than 1%.
No such thing. The owners give out such contracts because that’s how they make money. I’ll wait until one of the owners goes bankrupt before I start thinking that they are overpaying.
Joe, look at Hicks with Texas after signing ARod. Different circumstances but the Dodgers a few years ago and then the Mets. Does anyone really think the Wilpons would have sold if COVID hadn’t occurred? They lost revenue they expected due to Madoff and then had payments due at a time when COVID suppressed their anticipated revenue streams. They were the ultimate real estate rich family who was cash poor. They had to sell as I recall because of they weren’t able to refi.
I usually talk trash about the Padres, but they are being very smart here. Let someone else pay Machado $40 miilion a year when he is in his 40s. And someone undoubtedly will. I just have to hope that it is not my team.
Um…what?
Turn up your heating aid
Turn up your hearing aid.
When you get to healing aid, I’ll buy one.
Make sure you sign Soto, Preller, let Manny walk. Make him out to be the bad guy.
The Padres will be heavily penalized with his salary adding on to an already enormous burden.
To think, they could have had kept Ty France for a fraction of the money. I’m guessing France wouldn’t have yelled at selfish little git Fernando Ringworm Jr, but spending money like a drunken sailor attracts the more expensive, and greedy, ladies of the oldest profession.
Good post, Crikes.
I agree with your suggestion that SD focus on Soto instead, and always believed that France could have been a solid building block if not a Padres cornerstone.
He and Muñoz look good right where they are at!
yeah, Crikes, France may turn out to be San Diego’s Buhner…solid player with carefree years of production in Seattle.
After Ohtani signs for 10/$500, Soto will ask for the same and settle for $450. If the Padres want him to extend, they need to offer at least 10/$400 or 20/$400 for tax purposes.
The Soto contract will be nuts. Seidler was asked straight on after the trade if he was afraid of a 500m extension that Soto could require and his response didn’t shy away from it.
After next off-season, I think he’ll sign a 31m deal for his last arb year (setting a record arb salary). I think they’ll end up offering him something along the lines of 12/504 (42m/yr) or 13/526.5m (40.5m/yr) to cover his free agent years. Adding in his last arb salary he’ll have either 13/535m or 14/557.5m guaranteed. I think Shohei will end up getting 12/540m (45m/yr) with a similar season in 2023.
Oh and to get Soto and Boras to sign that deal a year before free agency they’ll end up offering him an opt out after year 6. Going with the 12 year extension, between the 6/248m he’ll have made along with over 80m in arbitration he’ll be sitting on around 328m in career earnings and be able to enter free agency at 32, about 8 month’s older than Machado will be when he opts out.
A lot of money, but I’d do it to secure Soto’s prime and only having to lock him up till 37 or 38 if he stayed the duration.
Being 6 years younger then Manny is pretty huge and you could argue we need good outfielders much more then good infielders.
His 2023 with SD wasn’t what we were expecting, but I feel confident he’ll be somewhere around 160 wRC+ in ’23 to warrant making such a big offer.
That said I think Boras & Soto will be hell bent on him testing free agency, but doubt at the end of the day if there will be a more motivated team to get it done.
They will let Soto walk.
Ignorant:
Would that make it an intentional walk?
Trent Grisham and Proffar hit better than Soto did for the Padres last year.
Soto struggled to hit 230 with only 6 home runs in the 2nd half
Then, he choked in the playoffs also.
Soto is the most over rated player in MLB.
Not a super star.
Don’ t resign SOTO for stupid money and to watch him with men on base and the game on the line looking for a walk and watching fastballs right down the middle go by him instead of clutch hitting the team needed.
you have some reading to do: https://www.mlb.com/news/juan-soto-projected-as-top-hitter-in-2023
I don’t read Media {puff pieces” arranged by a player’s agent.
I read the facts, the stats, watch and attend the games. My personal observations of watching the games and attending the games live (and that of National Announcers like ARod concluded that Soto played like crap for the 2nd half of last year and in the playoffs.
Soto and Bell (both players sent from the Nats to the Padres)
COMPLETELY CRAPPED OUT OFFENSIVELY AND DID NOT PRODUCE FOR THE PADRES.
SOTO CHOKED IN 2022 FOR THE PADRES
The Nats completely HOSED THE PADRES IN THAT TRADE
(5-6 of their best young players and prospects for THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER IN MLB?!
Padres fans would take back those players and give Soto back in a NY minute.
“The mighty Soto’s 2nd half stats for Padres”:
2nd half approximately 81 games with Padres regular season:
.2022 23 SD Nl 6 home runs 16 RBIs .236 BA .778 OPS
& marginal defense
44 walks and 34 strikeouts.
Middle of the order hitter is supposed to hit the ball and drive in runs, not let fastballs go by right in the strike zone so he can draw walks and protect his OPS
NLDS Batted .188 with 0 home runs 1 RBI
NLCS batted .222 with 2 home runs 4 RBIs
Wild Card .333 0 home runs
The Padres utility players produced more than Soto.
ANY TEAM THAT GIVES SOTO 300m OR 400m
WILL LIVE TO REGRET IT!
His OBP was all that stood out last year, true. But his prior years were spectacular. We’ll see how his career plays out moving forward. If in 2023 he returns to 2021 Soto, he’ll get the biggest contract ever awarded in MLB history.
Well, that shows you are not a smart fan. Soto had a 130 OPS+ for the Padres. 30% better than league average.
If you don’t understand what that means, that is on you.
Soto will ask for more he’s younger like 60 a year.
Lol made me laugh AJ screwed up by signing Hosmer and that caused all of these players to be blocked.
SD won;t sign Soto for 300M ort 400M to struggle to hit 230 with only 6 home runs in the 2nd half this past year.
And, he also choked in the payoffs.
Soto is the most over rated player in MLB.
Late during the padres run I recall the announcers saying Soto had more hard hit balls (EV over 95) then anyone else in the playoffs, it was 12 or 13 at the time, but only had 1 hit to show for it.
That’s not choking, that’s getting small sample sized.
Since 2018 when Soto debuted he has a .239 ISO to Manny’s .228. Their stats during the past 5 years:
Soto: .287/.424./.526 (153 wRC+) 2667 PA
Manny: .284/.355/.512 (133 wRC+) 2908 PA
It’s mind boggling to me that a guy could put up those numbers and one person thinks he’s the most overrated player in MLB.
He’s not getting $400MM.
He’s also not asking for $400MM. Bob N. made another oopsy
Lol how much does Soto want then?
Soto reportedly was wearing a Dr. Evil shirt around the spring training — so, “one billion dollars”.
Sidenote: this is false, but I wish he would.
Doesn’t that make him one of the “greedy billionaire owners” type guy? Same goes for Jeter too, right? Or, are millionaires just born better people than billionaires by nature? I don’t quite understand fans’ pure hatred foe owners and worshipping players.
Or, are millionaires just born better people than billionaires by nature?
=======================
As long as you are only worth $999,999,999, then you are the salt of the Earth. Add one more dollar, and they will hate you.
@deGromTexasRanger – Your championing of Bauer as MLB’s Sacrificial Lamb and, here, MLB owners is contradictory.
Not really sure how a silly comment from a movie reference is player-worship or is hyperbole also lost on the internet?
What? Where did I ever mention Bauer? I haven’t said that guys’ name on this site in weeks perhaps. I’m also not talking about you. I mean many on this site, including authors, are really trying to get the players aa much money as possible and sympathize with millionaires whose raises on average greatly outpace inflation.
Why is it hard to see why even for millionaires, they still may not be paid adequately to what they’re bringing to the billionsssss in ownership profit? Case in point: Jeffrey Loria purchased Marlins for $158.5M in 2002 and sold them for $1.2B in 2017. And yes, after getting taxpayers to help flip the bill for his new stadium, he kept the proceeds, of course. And all he left them was the monstrosity in CF of loandepot from his lack of taste in art. There was a rumor he had a handshake agreement in 2017 to sell them to Jared Kushner. Seriously, what about any of that is likable or worth defending? With a history littered with Marge Schotts, Fred Wilpons among many others — owners know how to make good villains outside of MAJOR LEAGUE.
His PR man Jeff Passans insists he’ll get 500m
He is a 15M per year player looking for 50M per year
HARD PASS ON HIM
More like 25-30, but sure.
That Correa contract is looking better and better for the Twins.
This. If Correa’s leg can hold up (a significant if admittedly) the Twins made a great move there
No, it’s not. Correa will go back to missing minimum 25% of the games with big guarantee locked in. Problem is they can’t overcome his absence by outspending a mistake other clubs passed on. That signing helped Cleveland further, who is young and well run/managed.
Correa has played in nearly 85% of games the past three years. Don’t follow him but aside from 2019, he’s been on the field.
I think if Correa were to maintain his established production for a 100-110 games/season over his age 28-33 seasons, it would still be well worth it. Twins can easily afford quality depth to pick up the slack (think how they picked up Michael Taylor to relieve Buxton).
IMO, if Twins don’t compete in ALCD in next 6 seasons, it won’t be because of his contract.
Remaining years: 5/160M (if not opting out after 2023)
SDG offer: 5 addt years/105M
total with new offer: 10/265M (26.5M AAV) — playing through age-40 season.
If 145M apart in talks, Machado is asking for 10/410M (41M AAV) — or $250M in new or additional money.
I could be wrong here and missed something, but if true, wow! Bold.
He has 5/150 left, not 160. Some sites are adding his signing bonus to future years when he has already been paid it.
So without the 10M signing bonus that has been paid, his remaining is 5/150M and he is asking for 10/400M (40M AAV) — nice and round. Interesting.
RunDMC, Machado earned $10 million in salary in his first year plus a $20 million signing bonus.
Nightengale is never correct with his rumors?
So manny wants after his 2023 season 40m for 10 years. Which would be counting this year an 11/430m. That would pay him through his age 41 season.
Manny is smoking crack if he thinks he is getting anything close to that.
The starting point on any manny extension was Xanders 11/280 deal. Mannys starting point is 11/430m. The middle point would be around 11/360.
There is zero and I mean zero chance anybody gives manny anything close to 11/430 or 10/400 at the end of this season. The dude will start his new free agent contract turning 32 mid way through the season.
This must be a joke.
Machado is a similar hitter to Bogaerts and a much better defender. He will get a lot more than Bogaerts did.
Machado has more power in a much tougher home park. For ex: Petco is near the bottom in Park Factors, while Fenway is 3rd overall from 2020-22. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-factors
It’ll be interesting to see what kind of hitter X will be in Petco. He’ll still be very good b/c he’s even more of a contact hitter than Machado, but will his SLG be affected without the Green Monster?
While that maybe true, Xanders wrc+ the last 5 years is basically identical to mannys and that stat is park adjusted.
Yes manny has been the better defender but last year Xander actually graded out better on defense then manny.
It’s much closer between the two then people realize.
Not a joke, just bad reporting by BoNight
Remaining years –
$30 million for 2023.
$150 million for 2024-2028.
SDG offer. 5/105 for 2028-2032
Total with new offer – 11/285 playing through age 40 season
Nightengale lied again. Which is typical for him.
Machado’s agent asked for 5/145 to be tacked onto his current deal, not 5/250.
Sign Soto move Tatis to third! If I am handing out 400 million dollar contracts, the player better be in his mid 20’s! This is getting out of hand!
Soto is not good enough for that big contract.
1/2 season with the Padres and he had only 6 home runs
and struggled to hit 230.
And, he choked in the Playoffs,
Is this really a bad thing for the Padres? If Machado opt out, they had him during his prime and will even receive QO-compensation. With Bogaerts, they have a 3B successor in waiting.
Gruß,
BSHH
he already recieved a qualifying offer over 4 years ago.your only allowed 1 qualifying offer in your career.
He was traded from the Orioles to the Dodgers in his walk year so couldn’t receive a QO then.
If I’m the Padres right now I’m liking my position because this guy has every incentive to have a great season. Let him walk and see what else he can find out there. Hasn’t MM also had surgery on both his knees? I just think SD would have been nuts to agree to that ask.
#Fakenews already
Manny may have asked for $400 million. That doesn’t mean he expects to get $400 million
Still, starting talks by asking for the absurd, with no precedent to compare to, does not invite conversation.
I don’t think he wanted to have the conversation. He wants to hit the market and see what he can get.
Exactly! He and Bryce Harper were both asking for 500 million before they got the 300 million dollar deals.
But…he is looking at the Aaron Judge deal, and thinking (rightfully) he gives Gold Glove defense and MVP offense every single day. Manny posts everyday. Judge does not…so, more than Judge is a reasonable self assessment.
((funny how everyone wants Soto locked up long term over Manny. Soto is had the offense, but not the defense…and Soto hadn’t carried a team to the post season…as Manny has done.))
I’m interested in seeing how this plays. On one hand, this is his team and he does deserve to get paid. On the other hand, we can’t keep all the high priced players we’ve assembled. At some point the money machine is going to run out of paper and ink…
Not his team anymore. Not after declaring “I’m outta here!” Someone tell me about his leadership qualities, again?
I give it a decade before the first billion dollar contract hits. Wow, are our priorities out of whack
At least we know how next off season is going to play out for the Padres
I want to see all the Mets, Yankees and giants fans post now that they want manny at that price.
“Big d daddy Cohen can afford it!”
Doesn’t matter what the fans think, honestly, as most (myself included) couldn’t care less what players are paid by their bosses – but, there’s simply no way the Yankees acquire another player at that AAV. Machado, Soto, etc, will not be Yankees. Hal has already emphatically stated his position on payroll.
This is going to be a self-correcting problem because Cohen can only take on so many big-named contracts, the Yankees are tapped out (they “can’t afford” Profar, for goodness sakes) and SD is nearing their limit as well. *If* a team does Wade in these waters I assume it will be the Orioles, or similar, that have a ton of salary space before hitting the CBT.
While y’all want more C.R.E.A.M. in your Sunday morning latte, dig this: The Padres would be one of the ballclubs affected should Diamond Sports Group go into bankruptcy. Diamond Sports operates the Bally Sports RSN that carries Padre ballgames — and without that RSN gravy train there might not be all that cash to cover all these 9-figure contracts.
Someone should be arrested over that scandal. They’re losing billions per year, according to their claim. That’s more than simple negligence. I bet not one CEO missed his incredibly impressive annual salary/bonus though…..
Sinclair paid $3 billion more than the value of the 14 stations based on annual revenue and that purchase included $8 8billion in debt. Since they are a public corporation, you can go take a look at their statements. They thought a tie in with Ballys would increase revenue substantially and instead it stayed constant in most markets other than San Diego and Bally Sports South.
Bally Sports San Diego is profitable. How do we know that? The Padres own a portion of the station and Greupner said that they were getting revenue above and beyond the broadcast rights from the station. That would not be happening if it was losing money.
Padres have first right of refusal to purchase the balance of the ownership if the Sinclair subsidiary Diamond Sports goes into bankruptcy. The Padres will buy the balance of the ownership of the station for pennies on the dollar in bankruptcy court.
Once they own it outright, they will also be able to sell streaming packages locally. That will increase revenue, not lower it.
MLB has also said that they will simply step in take over broadcasting the games themselves if Sinclair goes bankrupt. Since they have built the most successful streaming platform in all of sports I am quite sure that MLB will make money from this.
Here is a great article about it all.
https://www.businessinsider.com/mlb-says-league-will-air-games-bally-sports-possible-bankruptcy-2023-2
Here us where you find Sinclair Broadcasting financials.
https://sbgi.net/investor-relations/diamond-sports-group/
Wow that’s a lot of good info, man. Thank you for posting all that. It gets somewhat convoluted in the media because they are reporting that Bally was losing “billions” annually. Of course that doesn’t seem correct because someone should’ve taken notice. It’s a shame nobody will be forthright.
So he wants the Pujols deal to carry him from age 31 to 41.
Major difference being Manny actually is 31.
Foolish comment… if Albert is actually years older than his reported age, he just had the greatest season ever as a 45 year old. That would actually be MORE impressive!
Either Albert, Octavio Dotel, and all of their family and friends are lying about them being born 2 years apart, growing up and playing baseball together in the DR
Or Albert is lying about his age.
And if you actually listen to him he gives it away time and again.
Pads are contributing to the lavish market demands into geriatric by pro athlete age deals. Can you really say Machado is greedy asking 10/400 when Judge just landed at 31yo 9/360 as an oft injured eventual DH in waiting that had a healthy/crazy contract year?
Should be an easy pass. Doubt the larger budget Cubs/RSox/NYY/LAD that miss out on Ohtani will bid him up to 400….even the Mets may think twice….but 350 is foreseeable from Cubs/Mets.
anyone making more AAV than Mike Trout better be better than Mike Trout. Manny is good, MVP and Likely hall of famer as it looks right now but he isn’t Mike Trout. IMO Manny’s contract maybe about where it should be.
Put simply, Trout is the best player of that generation. Maybe one of the best in all time.
No disrespect to any of the other players… but Mike has been that good.
Trout signed his contract a few years ago, and more money is pouring into the game than then. Salaries go up, that’s just the way it works.
Trout is making 37M now. that was accounted for.
That’s not how it works, joew. Under your thinking, no player should ever make more than Babe Ruth.
yup that comp sounds legit… lol. In this generation of ball players, trout is by far the best.
Trout extended in 2019 IIRC. Just a “a few” years ago.
take a look at Ruth’s generation and tell me who the highest salaries were. I bet you the likes of Ruth where at the top of that list.
Trout has never tested free agency, its hard to know his value.
@pepenas thats fair.
Toodaloo
If Machado wants another $300 million contract, and the Padres essentially offer $255 million, why wouldn’t he ask for $400 million as a starting point?
Yes, he certainly might want more than $300 million, but whatever he actually wants is not what he’s going to ask for the first time. It’s a negotiation.
I keep asking for a billion/year for my salary, hoping for $300MM, but my wife gives me neither. I must be doing something wrong….
When you’re married, I always thought you get an “allowance” while the wife gets your “salary.”
Thats a lot of money
There will likely be a suiting team for this kind of cash, but if it is the Pads, their competitive moves going forward will be tough if anything happens to one of their stars. That is the obvious part. SD has a nice venue, and is going to have to raise prices all around to pay for what they already committed to for ’23 without that new contract in the mix.
It might be interesting to find some comprable players re: age/production from the 2000s and 2010s, assign them some of these 8-10+ year contracts, and see how that all played out. I think everyone knows it’s a bad idea to pay a 40-year-old thirty or forty million dollars, but some of these contracts are also going to blow up in spectacular fashion well ahead of the problem years.
Let him play for a contract until the trade deadline and flip him to the Yankees. Or better yet, send him to the Giants for every decent player they own.
If he opted out and then tore his knee exactly zero people would feel sorry for him
Only a tiny little man would take pleasure in another person’s injury. It is one thing to enjoy it when a player you don’t like strikes out with the season on the line, quite another to wish physical harm upon another.
It’ not irrational if you compare it to Judge, but there’s less of a compulsion to bite right now. The ask is likely the maximum (or near maximum) he could possibly get on the open market, so why risk giving it to him now when you know you have him for one season and at the very least will get a draft pick? Plus the implications on the luxury tax. Padres would be better off resigning after he becomes a free agent, even if they have to pay that price. Or, he may be a little less stellar, or a little more injured, and his market might change.
I think what many are missing is that none of these long deals count on a high level of production toward the end. All manny is doing is saying my next 5 years are worth alot more than 150 mil and anyone signing him needs to consider yer paying for the next 5 or so years stretched out over 10+..similar to bogaerts judge turner etc..the current market suggests manny is correct and the padres lowballed him..as a red sox fan seeing this happen to SD makes me happy.
You sound bitter, good luck with that! =)
Nah. Poolhall isn’t bitter. The correct description of his attitude is called Schadenfreude. It means Taking Pleasure in Another’s Misfortune. We are all guilty of it on occasion.
And when Manny and Seidler come to agreement on a contact, we shall offer Poohall our sincere Freudenfreude
This is why I think teams need to start paying guys more upfront and less on the back end. I understand that over the lifetime of a contract, the AAV is what counts toward the luxury tax and the value of the AAV goes down significantly enough over time thanks to inflation, but if a total value is a players’ biggest concern, why not sign the biggest players like Machado to 15 year deals for $450M, with the first 5 years costing $30M AAV, the next 5 years costing $40M AAV and the final 5 years “only” costing $20M AAV?
They stand to make more money with sound investments from the after tax/after agency fees cash they’ll make from the first 5 years of that sort of deal anyway so that the last 10 years of the deal are mostly just bonus money…lots of bonus money.
Where are all the posters that said once he made this announcement, the story would be done, and there would be no more story? Third day of headlines and counting. Once the demand aspects have run their course, they will move to trade rumors.
Yes. It will be a story all year long. The local media will ask if he’s reconsidered after every slump, or if he wants to be traded at midseason if the Padres are out of it, and every new market he visits will ask how he likes the city and if he could see himself playing there, etc. Will it be a distraction? I don’t believe so. It’s part of the game, but I agree with your implied point. Those who thought he made the correct choice and that the story would die didn’t really consider the angles. The media questions change, but the story remains.
reporters arent helping by not presenting facts. As evidenced by fact that the report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect
Manny Machado prior to age 30 season: 46.6 career fWAR – top 5 seasons: 7.4, 7, 6.6, 6.2, 5
David Wright through age 30 season: 48.7 career fWAR – top 5 seasons: 8.4, 7, 6.6, 5.8, 5.6
Wright played 211 games after that. Wright got paid less than one third (and nearly one quarter) of Machado’s ask.
Hmm, so career fWAR in the 45-50 range might be the cause of spinal stenosis?
The point is pretty obviously that top end contracts are dealing with large time horizons, which leaves lots of opportunities for something to go wrong. I’m curious to see how the market reacts when the first one or three of the recent mega deals has clearly become a quagmire.
uh, same way they did with Pujols?
Just so far from reality w that ask, and they know it. What will be worse is that someone actually will give him a 10 year deal, which id a huge mistake.
That’s true but nobody and I mean nobody is giving machado a 10 year 400m deal for his age 32-41 seasons.
Turner and Xander are getting 24/27aav for those seasons. Maybe you can argue manny is a little better but not that much better.
I do think he’s better than both, but you’re right, they’re still top tier. I had thought SD signed Xander because they knew Manny would opt out and walk. Building around Soto Tatis and Xander is very solid (if they can re-sign Soto and Tatis can be as productive as I think he’ll be). Or they’ll overpay for Manny and let Soto go (or trade him for a strong return).
The Pads are planning to sigh both Machado and Soto. Manfred hates this of course, all these stars locked up in a small market, so he’ll do what he can to stop it, including calling it a “rebuild”
I personally think that’s a pipe dream. They have $85m a year against the cap in tatis Xander musgrove and darvish. Investing another $80m a year in two players would force them to be way too top heavy, and they don’t have the farm to supplement the rest of the roster. I think they extend one and let the other walk. Besides, too much FA money out there now to entice them.
yeah, pipe dream, and seemingly far-fetched. But if it happens, I might not be too surprised given Seidler’s publicly spoken intentions
Cohen and Seidler… two renegades
Avarice
av·a·rice
noun
extreme greed for wealth or material gain.
He needs to feed his family like Latrell Sprewell
I’ve said this many times – the fans need to organize somehow, someway. I’m all for players maximizing their earning potential, but there has to be a limit. It’s not just the owners paying the exorbitant salaries. The fans feel it too. I am in NY and it’s simply too expensive to bring my family to a game. Between tickets, parking, a few hotdogs and sodas, you are looking at $600 easy for a family of 4. I get that owning a team is a for-profit venture but baseball has managed to price out many of its fans.
The word you are looking for is boycott. I don’t see it happening. The prices will keep going up until the ball parks stop filling up.
Between tickets, parking, a few hotdogs and sodas, you are looking at $600 easy for a family of 4.
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I took a look at Sunday’s game v the Giants. That’s a reasonably good game. Four tickets in section 412, row 1 (nice seats), will cost you $88 plus fees. And you are allowed to bring in soda and snacks.
So at $8 per hot dog, you can afford 64 hot dogs, or 16 each.
It’s just un-american to ask my family members to eat fewer than two hotdogs per inning.
Some of this social warrior BS annoys the crap out of me. Growing up, when money was scarce, I’d stop off at a game on the way home and sit in the bleachers. Or if I went on Sundays, I’d park on the Grand Concourse and walk a few blocks.
Now that I am older, and less concerned about money, I still don’t come anywhere close to $150 per person.
The term is Social Justice Warrior (SJW), and it doesn’t mean what you think it does @Joe Brady. Yes, SJWs protest, but this is not a social issue. It’s a financial issue. If anything, SJWs are the players holding out and trying to wreck the sport to take down those evil “billionaire owners” even though not all are billionaires. It’s guys like Marcus Semien who want economic “social justice” for poor millionaires who can’t feed their starving families. Focusing on minimum wages for minor leaguers and major leaguers is at least closer to reasonable, but fighting salary caps is 100% about letting free agents get crazy salaries. I may feel bad for guys like Grady Sizemore who never got their paydays or minor leaguers who mostly make less than a good amount of the population, but free agents are the main driving force in increasing salaries, and those guys are the ones complaining the loudest. If it weren’t for them, perhaps this lockout wouldn’t have lasted so long. Then, again, it could be other stuff too.
Can someone tell DTR that every majority owner in baseball is a billionaire.
As we have heard in Pittsburgh, attendance doesn’t mean a great deal where profits are concerned. It explains why ballparks like ours are generally half full all season and thanks to MLB’s financial platform, the owner still enjoys a nice profit each year
For many older fans like myself, we love the game and root for the guys who wear our town’s name on their uniform but that’s where it stood. It’ll be a cold day in hell before I ever go to a game again and truthfully, I’ve resigned myself to watching games only if there’s nothing else to do
And that’s a shame. I was born and raised on this game as a player, coach and fan, but MLB has done its very best to alienate the fan.
This is just another sick example
Attendance does affect the prices a great deal. St. Louis began pricing their tickets based on the visiting team. It now costs more to see the Cubs, Yankees, and Dodgers than it costs to see Reds and the Pirates. They did this to maximise profits and keep the ballpark full. The teams do respond to lower attendance.
Understand your point but it’s kind of apples and oranges where a small market team like the Pirates are concerned
Our town newspaper did an investigative piece last year and described how attendance/gate and souvenir concession sakes essentially pays the big team’s salaries
That leaves MLB TV money, local TV revenue and ancillary streams to deal with things like minor league salaries, bonuses to drafted players and the like
MLB keeps its books closed for deeper dives but it’s not rocket science to understand that no one loses money in team ownership, irrespective of attendance
Multiply all of this by the number of teams and the profit margins are outrageous
No, MLB won’t miss a handful of fans like me but I get out of the gang at MLB Network occasionally bemoaning how the NFL has passed baseball as America’s pastime. Myriad reasons, of course, but in an era where so many struggle to get by, fandom that means financial sacrifice is harder to justify
End of rant
I know they are making plenty of money. I’m saying that they are going to charge what ever people are willing to pay. It’s not about whether they are making plenty of money, It’s about everyone trying to make as much money as they can. You can’t exclude the players from that. They too are making enough money but they want as much as they can get. The simple truth is that prices will continue to rise until large numbers of people decide to stop paying the higher and higher prices.
Understand all of that but my point was more related to the idea of boycott. You’re right, of course. It was only a matter of time before teams made fans pay to see the competitive teams. Understood
But when one thinks of “boycotting,” he naturally thinks of simply not going to games. Point is, in itself, that isn’t going to change anything as revenue streams come from other sources and much more abundantly than in ticket sales.
Thanks. Enjoyed your insights
It’ll be a cold day in hell before I ever go to a game again
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This is not unlike any other business. They charge whatever they think they can get away with. If the crowds dwindle, they will charge less. If the folks keep coming, they will keep increasing prices. Most people are the same way.
Everyone wants whatever they can reasonably get for themselves. There is nothing wrong with that.
I don’t blame the Padres. I wouldn’t overpay.
Scott Boras….
Read between the lines. He didn’t want an extension. He wants to hit the market and see what the bidding war will bring him. I seriously doubt he gets $400 million. I also seriously doubt he settles for anything near what San Diego offered. The final number will likely be somewhere in the middle if the market stays the same.
No question the market has changed. But 400 for 10 years? Good luck Manny!
the report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect
Manny being Manny
He’s entering his peak right now, but that peak isn’t going to last ten years. After next season, I imagine he’s got 3 to 5 years left of being at this level and if he stays completely healthy, 1-2 outlier years left on top of that somewhere in the middle if he tries to play until he’s 40, but he will remain productive- he’ll go from a 6-7 WAR player to a 3-5 WAR player.
I’d cancel out next year’s salary (this year’s salary) on top of the rest of the deal and replace that with 6 years/$213M to *replace* the 6 years/$180M remaining on his current deal and *maybe* offer another 3 years/$90M of new years and money, because $30M 10 years after his original contract of $30M AAV will be like $23M today- a very hefty salary, but perfectly manageable and mid-budget for most teams. It’s an additional $123M over 9 years, making his total deal 13 years/$423M.
It’s a raise, it pushes his total AAV up to over $32.5M per season over the lifetime of the contract.
But he’s basically asking to turn 10 years/$300M into 15 years/$450M? Craziness… Also the BIG money on those deals he’s referring to are guys who are on very short term deals being paid by an owner with the deepest pockets in baseball willing to spend like crazy- something the Padres have already done.
Can you imagine if every single player had opt outs every few years to re-up at the modern equivalent value to when they originally went into free agency? Every deal would go up. 6 years/$120M would turn into 13 years/$320M, 4 years/$66M would turn into 6 years/$80M, etc. but at some point it’s like -you signed the deal you signed. Salaries are going to inflate over the lifetime of any of these mega contracts, making the older contracts look a little quaint, but at the time they were absolutely massive, record breaking guarantees and that hasn’t changed.
Setting that bench mark shouldn’t mean teams have to trounce that benchmark because someone else got a bigger deal a few years later.
But someone will pay him if he opts out. Some ownership will calculate the potential reward over the first 5 or 6 years of a new deal for Machado’s services and be willing to eat the remaining 4-5 years of subpar performance or hope he maintains his levels through his age 40 season.
But this is also why guys are now signing these 12 to 14 year deals- so this doesn’t happen.
With hindsight, especially given the major deals of the last off season or two, Padres should’ve signed Machado to 13 years/$410M (basically 5 years/$155M, 5 years/$165M, 3 years/$90M) from the get go with his original contract and called it a day- no opt outs. Oh well. The game and by extension (natch) the business of baseball continues to evolve.
Will the bubble burst at some point with the long term mega-contracts? Around 2026 some of these teams are gonna be hatin’ life…
As good as he is, Manny is somewhat redundant in the Padre scheme.
I don’t know if there is a no-trade, probably so, but I can’t help but wonder what the Mets would give up for his opt-out year? At his age, this just might be his best overall season. Worth a haul?
Is it my imagination, or were there a lot of posts from SD fans about how Manny loved SD and that a new contract was just a formality? It seems like they should’ve locked up Manny before they locked up Bogaerts.
It’s not over yet, I don’t hear any fat ladies signing.
This whole thing smells a lot like Aaron Judge. (another over 30+ player the Padres offered insane $$ and contract length, too.)
Manny will get more than $255MM on the open market next offseason but he won’t top $400MM.
Signing a player to a contract like that has the same effect on the consumer as taxing rich corporations so they “pay their fair share” (whatever that means). If Starbucks has to pay more in taxes, they don’t just eat it off their bottom line. The consumer pays the higher tax in the form of paying a nickel more for their already overpriced mediocre latte.
Baseball fans pay these contracts.
Baseball fans also pay the owners salaries, and their profits.
Baseball fans, and non-baseball fans, pay for the owners retail locations too.
Yes, that is very true. Not sure of the point, but that’s true.
Lots of reasons for the Friars to try to win it all this year…
It’s worth noting that Machados contract was ”back loaded”, playing his first five years at an AAV of 28 million.
I’m sure in his request, he’s looking to recoup that 10 million in salary and is shooting for Judges 10/400. IMO, given the way contracts recently have been handled, 10/350 isn’t out of the question if he puts up another mvp caliber year.
Drascoo, Why do you feel it necessary to post easily disproved statements?
Machado will make $150 million in the first 5 years of his deal. $10 million in the first season in salary with another $20 million in a signing bonus that was paid before the first season even started, then $30 million per year through 2023.
Isn’t he opting out of 5/160 not 5/150? If I recall correctly there was about 10 mil back loaded on that contract. So in fact, they were offering him 10/265, basically Bogaerts contract.
He is opting out of 5/150
Am I reading this wrong? He wanted 50 mil a year for his age 37-41 playing days?
He’s asking for $45 mil for 2 reasons:
1) because there’s a good chance he gets it. Only takes 1 owner. And if he asks for $45, he’ll settle for $1 more than Judge’s AAV for 8 years.
2) He knows San Diego can’t afford that so it’s an automatic reason to exercise the opt out. I think he chose SD because of money (don’t blame him) and I think he likes playing in SD but he likes money more and he’s got a great opportunity to cash in 1 last time.
but the report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect
My post came before the update but what point did I make that was incorrect? Machado knows SD can’t afford him. SD can barely afford their payroll as currently constructed.
So tell me, what did I say that was wrong?
Nothing at all. The report was incorrect, not you. Your hypotheticals seem reasonable to me
Gotcha. Yeah there’s a lot of players who feel they should be the highest paid at their positions. He’s young enough to get 10 years and frankly I think he’s better overall than Arenado. That’s why I think there’s some truth to the 10/$400.
I have no issues with a player maximizing their pay. I did it in my career. I was much more interested in my annual pay raise than how my company did against the competition, Pay wasnt the only thing I worried about. It was absolutely the main thing.
I only have a problem if a player chases the money then claims that some devil or another is to blame for them chasing the money. I lose respect for those players. Manny has always been honest and open about his motivations.
then claims that some devil or another is to blame for them chasing the money.
==========================
I get a kick out of that. Are these players so stupid as to think people believe them? For Hampton, it was all about the schools, because you know, Denver has better private schools than Manhattan. For Patrick Ewing, it was all about putting dinner on the table for the kids.
And for Clemens, it was all about playing closer to home. So for $250k more, he played in a foreign country rather than Arlington.
Machado is doing what any of us would do knowing this will be the last shot at one more big payday. That being said, Padres should trade him now for a younger 3rd baseman who is still in arbitration phase. Then Padres can focus on resigning Soto who is younger and just as potent offensively. They could start with looking at Hayes will Pittsburgh or Bohm in Philly.
Let him go. He’s a much better player than anyone on the Padres
The public rarely know the exact details of anything being negotiated until it actually happens. So I’ll sit back and enjoy the season…
The Padres should trade Manny to whomever will take him and for the most prospects they can get. The Padres would be better without Machado because he’s malignant and bad for the team.
Pretty unfounded and outdated statement in the “malignant and bad for the team” claim. He’s matured a lot. Generational talent.
Machado had been a good soldier in SD but just because he’s not throwing bats at third basemen and stepping on Aguilar’s ankle doesn’t mean he’s matured. He seems happy in SD but they know the divorce is coming. If I’m SD I’m going all in for 2023. He can get the qualifying offer if he opts out and they’ll recoup a first round pick.
Nope it would be a 4th/5th round sandwich pick because they paid the luxury tax.
The possibility of a World Series trophy is more valuable than anything they get back for a rental player. Obviously anything can happen but this one is extremely unlikely. No one subtracts an MVP level player when they are going for the gold.
Machado is the best play and attendance booster the Padres have.. Machado would make a lot more money in advertising, if he played in New York, Chicago, or Los Angles. Machado is underappreciated by San Diego, he should be the highest-paid padre player by a lot.
Let us not forget, he’s not even a Boras client. There is a chance that his agents are wanting to make their lives a little more comfortable on the back of Manny.
Yes, yes the belief that agents who live and die by player trust are out there deceiving them. I’ve never bought into that. Dan Lozano is no small time agent looking to score with one big client. He’s represented many top players including Pujols and Votto.
How many rings does Manny have? The Oads organization will go full Chernobyl at some point soon.
Is this a ringworm joke?
How many rings does Machado have? At some point this Padres organization is going to go full Chernobyl. They should hire the LV Golden Knights front office.
Knights don’t have a ring either, yet
He will be productive for another 3-5 years, and then someone will be stick with a 40 million dollar per year hit.
I would let him move on if he wants 10/400
but the report of Machado seeking a 10-year, $400 million extension is incorrect
The Phillies aren’t looking to trade Bohm. He hasn’t yet hit his prime, but will continue to improve.
Maybe, just maybe, the Padres calculated what they figured he was actually worth to them and offered that. Maybe they aren’t comfortable with him beyond that. It’s not like their known to be cheap and there’s ways they could structure to reduce luxury tax burden, so I suspect that’s the case.
Barring injuries, wonder if what cap he chooses for his Hall of Fame plaque? Orioles, LA, San Diego or New York Mets where he’ll get his asking price next year?
Machado probably goes in with no logo on his cap Those players who have been meaningful in multiple places don’t want to alienate fan bases by choosing one cap. You don’t get invited to many events when you’re sporting another team’s logo in the Hall. You may still get invited with a blank cap in the Hall.
Rolen was an exception because Phillie fans were already alienated and he’s already in the Cardinals Hall of Fame. They invite those players back for a lot of events.
It’s all about the Benjamins for Manny just like it is for his hero and idol Donald Trump.
No other player is like that. Most of them would be happy to back on a minor league bus sharing an apt with 3 other players for the love of the game.
And I doubt that all the players that are asking for a higher $ at arb hearings vote the same way either.
Self interest is not partisan even if that helps you sleep at night.
I just think it’s funny that he’s a stalwart hardcore Trump guy. It kinda all just meshes with his personality and is very fitting.
50% of the people in this country like Trump and 50% don’t like him. Why shouldn’t Manny be part of the 50%?
With all due respect Joe, I highly doubt it’s 50%. I believe it’s more in the range of 20 to 25%. And that still could be high. He’s lost a lot of support since the election and his 2024 re-election bid has so far not generated huge amounts of enthusiasm. (It’s early and that can change.) Also a sizeable % of Republicans (especially donors & bigwigs) seem to be more enthusiastic about a Ron DeSantis candidacy at the moment. Sorry for straying so far from baseball. I’ll shut up & stay away from politics, I promise.
wonder if he’s donning the LGBrandon tees in Peoria camp like he did last spring?
Why all the kicking an screaming ? San Diego got a great deal from him. they’ll end up with around 140 home runs for 4.5 years, far more than the next team will get. He’ll do well with one of the N.Y. teams, so it’s time to move on. Or meet his demands, it’s just that simple. Enough crying about what happens next year, lets get this year started.
Do you (gulp) trade Manny for pitching? What would you get in a trade? This is all theoretical and really pointless but if this was MLBtheshow or some other platform, what would a trade generate? If this is a distraction, maybe a move needs to be made so the focus is on baseball. Right now, it’s up to Manny to clarify that his true intent is this season, that he wants to bring SD a title, that negotiations aside he loves the team and the city, and he will give his all this year. That’s what as a fan we want to hear. We as, Padres fans understand negotiations, we are pretty forgiving, just re-affirm your loyalty to us this year, that’s all we ask.
It would make sense to me if Manny wanted 145mil more and the padres offered 105mil more, rather than the 105mil offer being 145mil short.
As a Phillies fan, so happy they signed Harper instead of that clown and the 27 AAV is such a bargain.
Machado wants 5/250 on top of the 5/150 he would be owed beyond 2023? 10/400? No one is paying him that much.
Nightengale is an idiot. The Padres offered 5/105 more than the 5/150 he is owed for 2024-2028. Machado’s agent countered with 5/145 more. Machado didn’t ask for $145 million more than the Padres offer.
I’d the difference was 40m then I think they would have got a deal down. That would have been a total of 11/325 which would have lowered his aav. Something around that number seems pretty fair.
So who knows what to believe.
The difference was $40 million.
As often as Nightengale is wrong, meaning 100% of the time, I can’t believe how many people here still chose to believe his clickbait BS.
I challenge anyone to find a rumor that Nightengale spread that proved to be correct.
Put a cork in all this BS. It’s time to rock n roll. What happens next year is next year. We’re gonna take this new build and have a great year. If Manny doesn’t want to be here at the end of the year then don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I don’t think that’s the case. I think everyone should watch a hallmark movie if they’re looking for drama. Padres are on a mission…
The Padres’ Preller & company don’t publicize their negotiations much less negotiate in public. This is reporters trying to create a story.
Padres fans are going to see their team go into a bigger hole than the Phillies and Tigers were in when they started their rebuilds if their team keeps signing these crazy, long term deals guaranteeing players money into their 40’s.
In 5 years, San Diego will be a baseball’s richest old folks home with the roster cluttered with 30-40M “anchor contracts” that handcuff the team from rebuilding and competing.
Too many bad contracts for a mid market team may spell: playoffs droughts, 2nd
Division status, a vicious cycle of dropping attendance and revenues, $20.00-$30.00 hot for small size dogs and beer, $75.00 parking and a long 8-10 year rebuild that necessitates major tanking for 5-8 years or longer.
Imagine 5-7 contracts worse than the Eric Hosmer deal.
Preller will be retired/gone and leave a virtually frozen, unfixable roster for a long period of time.
Good luck with that.
chip much?
????
Future Hall of Famer but not worth anything more than 6 years 200m
As an MLB customer, who.has to pay stupid prices for EVERYTHING……
I am not for this attitude.
There are other things in life, I should VALUE MORE.
I am just a WORKING CLASS guy and these Ivy Leaguers have TAKEN BASEBALL AWAY FROM ME.
Maybe these rich all wholes should consider what will happen when guys like me have nothing to do but think about what rich all wholes have done to our lives….
YOU THINK?
Enjoy it richmen, while you can. We are getting sick of.this fish.