Shohei Ohtani underwent surgery today to address the UCL tear in his right elbow, according to a statement released by his agent Nez Balelo. The exact type of the surgery (whether a Tommy John procedure or an internal brace) wasn’t specified by Balelo or Dr. Neal ElAttrache, who performed the procedure.
“The ultimate plan after deliberation with Shohei was to repair the issue at hand and to reinforce the healthy ligament in place while adding viable tissue for the longevity of the elbow,” Dr. ElAttrache said in the statement. “I expect full recovery and he’ll be ready to hit without any restrictions come Opening Day of 2024 and do both (hit and pitch) come 2025.”
Ohtani himself also commented on the situation via his Instagram page, in a somewhat uncharacteristic move for a player known for his relative lack of public statements. Ohtani’s statement: “I had a procedure done on my elbow earlier this morning and everything went well. Thank you very much for everyone’s prayers and kind words. It was very unfortunate that I couldn’t finish out the year on the field, but I will be rooting on the boys until the end. I will work as hard as I can and do my best to come back on the diamond stronger than ever. Go Halos!!”
As noted by Jeff Fletcher of the Southern California News Group, ElAttrache’s description seems to imply that Ohtani opted for a brace procedure, or at least something different than a standard Tommy John surgery. TJ procedures have a fairly set timeline of 13-15 months while brace procedures (a relatively newer type of surgery) have generally had a shorter timeline, yet ElAttrache’s statement indicates that Ohtani isn’t expected to pitch in 2024.
It is possible more information on Ohtani’s pitching status might develop as he continues to rehab, though Balelo said “the final decision and type of procedure was made with a heavy emphasis on the big picture. Shohei wanted to make sure the direction taken gave him every opportunity to hit and pitch for many years to come.” With this caution in mind, it seems possible that Ohtani isn’t planning to pitch in 2024 whatsoever, especially since he already had a Tommy John surgery in late 2018 that limited him to DH-only duty in 2019.
Ohtani still hit a very solid .286/.343/.505 with 18 homers over 425 plate appearances in 2019, with his season debut held off until May 7 due to the TJ rehab process. He then pitched only 1 2/3 innings in 2020 due to a flexor strain and also struggled at the plate during the abbreviated 60-game season, but Ohtani has subsequently rebounded with three of the most uniquely superb seasons in baseball history.
Since Opening Day 2021, Ohtani has a 2.84 ERA over 428 1/3 innings pitched, while hitting .277/.379/.585 with 124 home runs over 1904 PA. This two-way excellence earned him AL MVP honors in 2021, a runner-up MVP finish in 2022, and very likely another MVP trophy this season, even though his year has been cut short by injury. The UCL tear meant that Ohtani’s last start came on August 23, and while he attempted to keep going as a hitter, he hasn’t played since September 3 due to an oblique strain. The Angels announced over the weekend that Ohtani had officially been placed on the 10-day injured list, and wouldn’t play again in 2023.
Attention now turns to Ohtani’s next decision, as he’ll enter free agency with a resume unlike any other player to ever reach the open market. It remains to be seen how Ohtani’s surgery will impact his market, though even if he is unable to pitch in 2024, most pundits feel he’ll still land a record-setting deal, perhaps topping the $500MM threshold.
It is quite possible that the marketing opportunities and extra revenues available to the team that signs Ohtani will offset the extra risk of his elbow problems, as even if there is some natural long-term question about Ohtani’s arm health, he provides plenty of value even if he “only” an elite hitter. Interested clubs will obviously want as much information as possible on Ohtani’s health and rehab status before making their decision on a major contract offer, though waiting too long to deliberate might also cost a team a chance at making the signing.
There has been much speculation that Ohtani has already played his last game in an Angels uniform. Los Angeles has shown a willingness to pay big money for star talent, yet since Ohtani has been vocal about his desire to play for a winner, the Angels’ string of eight consecutive losing seasons might get him looking elsewhere, no matter what ownership might offer in a new contract. Ohtani’s free agency will be the key storyline of the 2023-24 offseason, and it isn’t a reach to say that much of the winter business around the sport might be held up to some extent until Ohtani chooses his next team.
He’ll look good in the Mets uniform
He’ll use the Mets to get the most money from his desired team, which sits on the west coast.
The Giants or Mariners.
Based on his treatment of the Angels, he’s really good at using teams for his selfish ends.
Even as a Mets fan, I doubt Ohtani signs with them.
The contract is already written, Shohei just needs to walk into Jerry Dipoto’s office and sign it.
I wouldn’t rule the Mariners out. Ohtani himself has said that he’s spent a few off seasons in Seattle.
It will never happen. Seattle is Ichiro’s legacy. Otani will not do him such a dishonor.
How would that dishonor Ichiro?
No chance he goes to the mariners. Might as well stay an Angel if he wants to watch the Astros take the west every year
Astros might not even win it this year. I dont see them as the 5 year future dominator of the division at all.
Yes, grasshopper, how would that dishonor Ichiro?
Yeah the Astros and their insurmountable 1.5 game lead.
Do you remember about 11 years ago the Angels had Trout and Pujols, then signed Hamilton? That trio was supposed to make LAA the dominant team in the west for the foreseeable future. How’d that work out?
On he contrary, Ishiro is recruiting him
That’s what they said five years ago
Mets sign him. His elbow isn’t right. He goes 2-6 with a 6.27 ERA while batting .252 with 7 homers. They deal him to San Diego,
He’s not pitching next year. Did you read the article.
Mets just got new management. You think they’re going to still spend big like what made them mistakes in the first place?
I see the Yankees more fitting.
Mets’ new management is irrelevant. Cohen is the one willing to spend big. And he’s still there, and he still has unlimited resources. If he wants Ohtani, he won’t be outbid. Ohtani may choose to go somewhere else for less money, but the Mets will be the highest bidder if Cohen wants him.
Even without pitching, ohtani fills a big met need in the lineup, but his price will still be ridiculous even post surgery
MA4170: You, like other posters on this site, have to wake up and realize not everyone wants to play in NY.
Avenger: i definitely have no illusions of him going to the mets, just that they’ll still have interest despite the surgery
That’s a pretty big IF, I think what we have learned this season from Cohen is that he isn’t someone who will spend just for the sake of spending. While he may still want to go after Ohtani, it isn’t a given. Either way, Ohtani is staying in the West Coast. Dodgers, Angels (deal with an opt out after a year), Mariners, Padres and Giants, in that order.
The mistakes the Mets made were mostly record contracts for 38-40 year old pitchers.
A gamble Cohen loss. The process and execution was fine for what he was looking to achieve but the results weren’t there. Cohen will sleep better than most MLBTR commenters tonight.
Those two 38-40 year old pitchers weren’t the reason for the Mets collapse. It was more than just them- look at Lindor, who is costing them, among others. Big contracts haven’t worked.
Lindor is at 5.5 bWAR now and a franchise leader. What are you talking about??
At least Lindor has a great smile. I’m sure that’s why the paid $330MM for him right?
Chris Taylor is basically batting the same for $7MM a year
Lindor is putting up close to a 6 WAR season. He is one of the top SS in the game since he signed with the Mets. Hard to say he hasn’t earned his keep.
Taylor is not even close to as good as Lindor on offense. 14% lower production. 117 OPS+ for Lindor to 103 OPS+ for Taylor.
Overall its even more lopsided. Lindor’s 5.5 WAR to Taylor’s below average 1.4 WAR. That’s right. Taylor is not even MLB average as a player.
Taylor has half as many at bats as Smily face .250 Lindor and usually bats 6-8th. Plug in Taylor at the top and double his at bats and his RBI and WAR skyrockets.
Lindor is an alomst 30 hr guy 100 runs/rbi best defense guy at SS. Don’t think he’s the problem.They are missing production from 3B, LF, RF, DH. SP.
Put down the crack pipe Missippi_is_50th_in_education.
Taylor hits at the bottom of the lineup because he is not very good. His .236 BA and meh defense has only earned him 356 PA even on a team hit hard by injuries.
Oh, and Taylor has a $15 million salary this season.
Those two 38-40 year old pitchers were a huge part of the reason why the Mets collapsed.
By that logic, put Lindor in that LA line up and watch his RBI and WAR skyrocket more than Taylor’s.
Taylor’s batting 7th because Hayward, on Minor league deal, is batting .280 ^_^. The Magical and wise Dodgers making good moves. Taylor .236 > Lindor batting .250 rofl
If you’re going with batting average, lineup spot, and theoretical at-bats as the basis of your argument on explaining how Taylor is better than Lindor, then it’s a very misguided one.
My logic is, the Dodgers aren’t delusional and rarely if ever sign a bad contract. $15MM for Taylor, a calming veteran presence in the locker room with clutch playoff pedigree is worth more than a lackadaisical Lindor batting .250. Taylor is literally batting the same thing for half the price.
I agree that the Dodgers rarely makes a bad long-term signing. For his cost, Taylor has been good for the Dodgers and during the postseason. However, Taylor is assuredly not as good as a hitter, by traditional or advanced analytical stats, as Lindor is. Your perception of Lindor as “lackadaisical” is off-base. Lindor is also an elite player playing a premium position. Taylor is not.
The Lindor contract reminds me of the Pujols contract. Guy also batted about .250 for premium level pay. The Lindor deal almost makes me feel like I’m paying for a happy ending and only getting a handy.
Yeah, he’s not bad but he costs far more than what he’s worth.
Exactly my point. There’s no question Lindor is talented but he costs a lot and right now his numbers are lower than his career numbers.
They are missing production there because they spent it all on big contracts, Lindor included.
@D&B I really don’t care to spell it all out for you but if you want to blame it 100% or partially on Lindor for the Mets’ shortcomings this season, so be it.
YankeeBC, I’m just loling over here in sunny California because I arm-chair GMed this decision years ago and got it right on the money when I predicted he’d only have 2 good years of production with 2023 being a noticeable decline year. It’s head scratching that a casual fan can predict these bad contracts while the Mets brass has their heads up their… it almost seems like all the pressure from their fair weather fans pushes NY teams to satisfy fans needs with these dog and pony show signings.
Polish up the resume! The Red and White Sox are hiring.
I’m being mean but it appears New York isn’t this paradise for players anymore. The media is wretched just like the fans. Most players rather play near their home town or California. Anywho
a calming veteran presence in the locker room
========================
You sound like an advertisement for aloe vera.
I predicted he’d only have 2 good years of production with 2023 being a noticeable decline year.
=========================
So you got that completely wrong and you’re bragging about it?
Brother, .250 average is trash. With enough at bats anyone can get 100 rbis with guys on base.
That’s like saying Westbrook is productive scoring 30 points on 60 shot attempts.
@YankeesBleacerCreature I never blamed the whole thing on Lindor. I’m only saying there is some merit to him costing so much. I said it was a lot of big deals the Mets made.
That just implies that Lindor’s salary was a deterrent to the Mets’ payroll outlay. That may be the case if Lindor was on another ballclub but certainly not for Steve Cohen as we saw evidently. Sportrac has Mets’ total ’23 payroll at $377MM of which $24MM is covering Robinson Cano’s salary. You’d make a better argument blaming Cano’s dead money than Lindor.
.236 is no where near .250 except for those that have a Mississippi education.
103 OPS+ is no where near 117 OPS+ except for those that have a Mississippi education.
But KKK us a troll who realizes that he is wrong.
5.5 WAR is worth $50.875 million. That means Lindor provides surplus value. He is pretty close to his career offensive numbers.
I’m from California ^_^ and how could you say that .236 is not close to .250. Those are nearly identical numbers
He is NOT having a “noticeable decline year” in any manner.
His offense is close to his career numbers and his WAR is higher than last season and the 2nd highest of his career.
You can continue to post, but every comment just makes you look more delusional.
That is a valid point. I didn’t know they were still paying for Cano. But point in case, it’s not just one guy. No matter how good the players are, they overpaid for a lot of big names. That is my argument. It didn’t start with Lindor or the two pitchers mentioned up front. It started by overpaying these guys.
Not sure if you’re referring to me or not. I only mentioned that his numbers this year were lower than his career numbers and that’s only in batting average and OBP.
He’s a solid player. I never denied that but he’s still costing the Mets a ton when there are cheaper options.
Like I said, only if you have a Mississippi education do you think that those are nearly identical.
Doesn’t matter where you claim to be from.
What cheaper options are there that are putting up 5.6 WAR?
Corey Seager, Marcus Siemen, Dansby Swanson, Bobby Witt Jr., Ha Seong Kim. Some of these have less WAR but are more affordable. It’s not by much but worth mentioning.
You’re right, Lindor is one of the best, but I personally would not spend that much on him.
Locking in players at high rates (whether good or not) does not help the teams flexibility
@YBC you’re arguing with an idiot. They must burn math books as well in Mississippi
Baseball is life, you realize Mookie Betts batting .300 has DOUBLE Lindors WAR right? That means he’s twice as valuable. 2 times the baseball man he is. Both have the same number of plate appearances too. I think you’re the one that’s delusional.
Adding disrespect to the argument doesn’t make it better…
Going off on tangents deflecting from an original topic doesn’t make for good discussions either. Whenever I’m wrong about something (which happens quite often), I’m glad to own up on it.
Not your brother KKK. You’re understanding of baseball is trash.
Only nearly identical to people with a Mississippi education.
Not one you mentioned is an option. Try to remain in reality here.
KKK, Betts has a 7.9 WAR. Lindor a 5.6 WAR. Only to someone with a Mississippi education is that double.
Anything else you care to be totally wrong about?
I’m not from Missippi just thought the name was comical much like New York teams decisions to put together these mismatched pathetic last place teams on the field. And I asked Siri for Mookie betts season stats and 9.8 war was the answer. Anywho sit back relax, enjoy your cat sized rats, get your popcorn out and enjoy some Dodger and Braves playoff baseball ^_^
Maybe learn out how to actually look up the stats and you won’t look so stupid in every single comment you make.
Remedial math is also a necessity for you.
I will enjoy watching the Dodgers get knocked out of the playoffs again.
Tangents are better than disrespect, just saying. I don’t agree with it completely either and I think I was wrong in the way I worded my argument, but disrespect always never ends up boring well for anyone’s argument.
You can be right all you want, but you throw disrespect toward someone else (as multiple users are doing), they’re in the wrong.
Respect is always earned. Has KKK earned any respect?
Yeah because using Mississippi as an argument makes you sound high and mighty. Good for you. If I told you I was from Mississippi, you gonna hate on me too?
Not hating on anyone. His NAME is Mississippi.
Mississippi education is at the bottom of the barrel.
If you try to say .236 = .250 or 5.6 is half of 7.9 I would say your math skills are bottom of the barrel.
Saying Lindor is part of the problem for the Mets when he is performing better than last year and is producing surplus value is also bottom of the barrel logic.
Yeah, I admit I made a mistake by saying that but I was talking about price tags in general. Mets just have so much money tied up.
He sounds British and is very disrespectful.
Subversive not a troll. I mute very few people because I post crazy stuff myself. But race, anti Amercanism and disgusting sexual comments prompt me to do so.
He says some pretty disgusting stuff.
Why would you dare wish such ill-fortune upon him? Do you *WANT* his pitching arm to explode?
Harper returned from TJ to DH in 160 days. 160 days from now is February 26
Ohtani is a freak of nature. Wouldn’t surprise me if he beat that by a few weeks.
Wherever he signs, Ohtani will be in camp and ready to go as a hitter.
Ohtani came back quicker than Harper last time. He will be ready for opening day I believe Harper came a month or two later
I have no idea where he will go, but he’s pretty high maintenance. A full time DH and a six man rotation is a burden.
For the right team he’s perfect. Obviously the Angels are not the right team.
Now if Chuckles the clown was available, that would be a perfect Angel fit.
No, unfortunately for Angels fans he’s gone. Although I do think the Giants and Dodgers will be possible destinations for him.
The Angels have three outstanding youngsters to be excited about in Neto, O’Hoppe, and Schanuel. As a Mariners follower I have already seen those three whoop on us enough to know they will be headaches for a long time in our division.
That’s a huge leap to think they are outstanding.
Not one of them hit the ground running. And no. A 353 slugging pct is not hitting the ground running.
Let’s hope they turn into solid big league players.
Okay, I should temper my language. I was just being gracious anyway. I see your point though.
I think those three are all high floor players. The player with the highest ceiling, Adell, has by far the lowest floor.
If a team can field three solid young players in their lineup, they are in pretty good shape. I have no reason to believe they won’t be solid.
I share much of your optimism, I just have tempered expectations.
Schanuel. 22 game on base steak. 112 OPS+. Outstanding.
Not sure what more you want from O’Hoppe other than health.
@Halo11Fan I think those 3 plus Moniak are a great young core for the Angels. It will probably sound ridiculous to most everyone, but as a Braves fan, Schanuel reminds me a lot of a young Freddie Freeman. The upright batting stance, the quick hands and short stroke. Not saying he will be nearly as good as Freddie, just that he reminds me of him.
Ignorant…I think those three plus all of the other 26 yr old and younger players is a solid core to build upon. I hope they can keep Ohtani, but I also realize his contract may also keep them from really adding some more core talent to continue the Angel resurgence.
You were watching and paying attention to a very different Neto-O’Hoppe-Schanuel trio than the rest of us, then.
Neto is very interesting with his high-ceiling despite low-floor if he sticks longterm at SS. The K-rates in the high minors are a flag, but all-but the worst offensive outcome is tolerable for a good SS/ C (think something roughly along the lines of a SS-version of Zunino).
O’Hoppe is a pre-Brewers Narvaez-like Catcher. And while Framing would likely become tolerable with Automatic strikezone calling coming soon, he also can’t throw or block. He needs to move off of C to develop his bat.
Schanuel is also incredibly interesting with his big physical profile and rarely successful AA-to-MLB jump. However, while he “should” develop power, he hasn’t shown any kind of power yet (not even gap power. He had 3 2Bs and 1 3B in 76 AA PA before the call up). His contact and zone control won’t mean much if he’s going to have old-Ichiro power as an early-20s 1B.
Who says you have to have a 6 man rotation?
Ohtani.
Anytime a team plays six consecutive games, which is 20 times a year, a sixth starter is needed.
This isn’t rocket science.
Or you use an opener pen day method on the 6th day. Or call up someone for a spot start from minors. There’s other options than 6 man rotation.
Twenty times a year use an opener? You better have one hell of a deep bullpen.
The Angels have, for the most part, used a sixth starter in that spot. The problem is, they don’t have a good sixth starter. And they have a horrible bullpen.
He’s great for the right team. Perry didn’t put the right team behind him.
We don’t have a good 2, 3, 4, or 5 starter either. Canning might be serviceable if he stays healthy. But Detmers, Sandoval, and Anderson will not get us to the playoffs next year. And our BP can’t act as the sixth starter as you said.
I get your point. But I still have hopes in this rotation.
There is nothing I can point to this year that supports my position.
I have no faith in our bullpen or the people who have built it.
of the starters from the beginning of next season. He has the best stuff of any starter in the entire organization. Sandoval and Detmers have been complete disappointments to down right awful. I think Sandoval poured too much into the WBC without his normal ramp up to the season. Most of us he pitchers who participated in the WBC have had subpar seasons. Detmers is an enigma. excellent stuff but shaky command. Both have been giving up eay too many HRs. Anderson was another bad signing by Minasian. He doesn’t have the stuff to bbe more than a back of the rotation starter. The Angels could be the A’s next season. The three rookies sre a good building block, but there is no one in the organization who is another building block for next season. Time for a total rebuild.
Please sell Arte, you are the reason why the organization is so poorly run.
Or call up someone from the minors for a spot start
Or go with a 2 3, 3 2, 3 3 piggy back situation with long relief guys to get you to the pen.
Or go with an outright pen day.
There’s OTHER optionS
Our starters were not reliable and made much worse by our defense which many here fail to recognize the impact of poor defense behind a pitcher. That was in part due to all the moving pieces caused by injuries. Many many times this year our starters on the whole couldn’t make it out of the 6th inning. This culmination puts a not so great bullpen in focus because of how extensively they were relied upon. They were over worked and ineffective. The team struggled to execute the basic fundamentals of baseball on almost a daily basis. They were extremely inconsistent and at times frustrating to watch. Top to bottom. It isn’t just the starters that need to improve here.
4lyfe – Not one playoff team in 2023 has had to resort to a bull pen day or any other of your suggestions as part of their regular rotation. It just doesn’t work if you have to do it consistently. It’s not that we don’t have enough guys to take the mound. We don’t have the right guys to take the mound with enough depth behind them to fill in for injuries.
Moreno is not interested in pitching. He spends his money on big bats because that’s what sells tickets. So our pitching for 20 years has been made up of mediocre arms that had a flash of greatness once or twice. Then we hang on to them for too long wondering why they don’t repeat that moment again when in reality, mediocrity is their norm. (Detmers, Shoemaker, Santiago, Bundy, Blanton, Sandoval, Anderson, et al)
Perry put a decent team behind him. But the injuries depleted a lot of their depth.
Slow – Someone always mentions “but the injuries…” as a reason why the Angels failed for yet another season. Every team has the same injuries or risk of injury. The teams that overcome are the ones that have sufficient quality depth. That’s where the Angels have failed miserably.
If Angels players have suffered an inordinate amount of injury, then something else is wrong with their processes for player health.
Taylor Ward got hit in the face with a pitch.
Anthony Rendon fractured his shin on a foul ball.
Mike Trout fractured a bone in his hand on a swing.
Luis Rengifo tore his biceps in the on deck circle.
Shohei injured his elbow because he’s spent 3 straight years without a day off, doing things not player in history has done..
What player health process would have alleviated these injuries?
The Angels have had the most players go on the IL this season. By 5 as of today. 34 different players and 42 IL trips total.
None. You missed my point. Every team has injuries. The teams that overcome are the ones that have sufficient quality depth. That’s where the Angels have failed miserably.
Then that’s where I would start my analysis.
The point is that no team has had the number of injuries that your Angels have had. Your GM had good depth to start the season and added more at the deadline but has had unprecedented numbers of injuries.
The Angels had the wrong depth and added the wrong people at the deadline. Giolito? Our farm is ranked one of the worst in baseball. Aside from the guys playing now like Neto and Shanuel, we traded away any depth we had at the deadline for guys that are now gone…brilliant. There are always excuses that can be proffered every year but our results over ten years is what matters. It’s broken and Moreno won’t fix it.
Prov, you’re absolutely wrong for this year’s status, but right on the previous of years. The depth and talent was finally there this year. When u break records for injury’s, and important player injuries with that, every team would be toast and miss the playoffs.
The SP’s we’re a kind of a bummer thou this season and killed them to. Most didn’t see them taking a step back like they did. $h!t happens!
Something is broken. Whether it’s too many injuries or no depth, or something else. The bottom line is the result is the same. We had a better roster this year than in the last few years and we might lose more games this year than last year. It needs to be analyzed from top to bottom, but Moreno is making money regardless so it won’t happen.
We had no pen. We had no shortstop. We had no catcher. Our firstbaseman and third base was coming off a major injury and we had no backup.
Urshella and Rengifo were major league players, but nothing much more than that.
When the staff let this team down, and the bullpen did exactly what the talent dictated, the team got behind the 8 ball.
Hire a team President and get rid of everyone in management.
Seriously, everyone in management has to go.
I would not be surprised if they offer Nevin an extension though because he is a yes-man, which is what Moreno wants.
There was a passed ball today that Neto didn’t see. The first base coach didn’t pay attention closely enough to tell Neto to go to 2nd so he didn’t advance. Little things like that make all the difference.
Didn’t you hear? Chuckles died, and it was hilarious.
Teams that can afford him and wait on the pitching side are few and far between.
Five clubs can afford him. It’s going to come down to 2.
What are you talking about?
The big question is will that elbow be sufficiently healed in time for him to sign a monster contract this winter?
solaris602: I don’t think the elbow surgery will put true buyers off of signing him. He went through tjs before and came back strong and, with his talent and being a natural athlete, will do the same this time. Batting in ’24, pitching and batting in ’25. I don’t think his age matters. Barring a major injury, the Dodgers are going to get a good one.
I find it a stretch to think, assuming a 10 year contract, that he would realistically pitch more than 3-4 years of it. Already a TJS and another (that they decided to do brace instead) within 5 years. Any team paying him as more than an elite hitter is kind of foolish IMO, but someone will take the chance.
Ma4170: If a team wants to sign Ohtani, they will no doubt do a lot of checking into his physical condition. There are all kinds of analytics to supposedly tell what a batter will do before they do it. Maybe some math expert will figure out an equation that will tell when a pitcher’s UCL will tear or when a hitter will suffer an oblique strain. Analytics sounds like a really good board game.
Can’t say barring a major injury, as he is already injured and now has to try to recover. The 2nd TJ type surgury is not a sure thing. Best of luck to him.
It will be really interesting to see how he wants his pitching career to go from this point. Obviously the bat stays in the lineup but does he see this as an opportunity to shift to elite reliever/closer? Does he continue to be a full time starting pitcher? Maybe start the season as long relief and building up to starting by the seasons end. He has so many options to be an effective if not amazing pitcher regardless of what he decides to do but if I’m him I might see if I can find some teams interested in maybe a closer role. Even if to just increase a bidding war.
Certainly sounds like full Tommy John to me. As a DH, April is 7.5 months away, and for a DH, that’s not a crazy timetable.
Interesting. I read it the opposite. Sounds like the brace procedure. Dr. ElAttrache used some odd language in the statement. If it was a straight TJS, I believe they would have said so. They may be pointing to 2025 as a pitcher in recognition that his rehab as a pitcher may take longer since he’ll be hitting.
I suppose we’ll know soon enough. This is not something that can be kept secret for long.
“while adding viable tissue for the longevity of the elbow” that tells me TJ as does the time table. With a brace, you’d expect Ohtani to be able to pitch in the second half next year.
The law says we’ll know when he decides to tell the public, and not before. It may not be something he wants a bidding team to know until he and his reps get to talk to them. Prior statements may deter a team from deciding to talk with him.
Teams will request medicals. It will get out whether he wants it or not.
I believe he was the doctor that did the internal brace procedure on Brock purdy, remember hearing that ohtani had 8/9 opinions on it.
It is not a TJ—
“The ultimate plan after deliberation with Shohei was to repair the issue at hand and to reinforce the healthy ligament in placewhile adding viable tissue for the longevity of the elbow,
That is a brace surgery. TJ is a ligament replacement. Repair and reinforce are key words.
It wasn’t a TJ, as has been stated over and over. It was a low grade tear of a completely different part of the UCL, and his previous TJ repair is completely intact.
He will either sign with the BoSox or Giants.
Dodgers or Mets seem more likely.
Mets have too many other needs to fill – rotation, bullpen, corner OF, and soon 1B if they don’t extend Alonso.
Get prepared for three months of speculation as to his destination.
He’ll return to the Angels: 12 years $887.5 million
Seamus: I have a feeling that if the bidding gets too high,the interested teams might just take a step back and decide to lower their offers. Speculation of a $500+m contract might end up being a mere $400m offer.
@Seamus that would be the Angels thing to do. Not a compliment.
I will be laughing at the team that overpays for him. I have no doubt that he will continue to be a good hitter, but I can’t see him pitching moving forward.
Yeah it’ll have to be a team that doesn’t lock 1 player to a high percentage of total payroll. Unless Arte increases payroll Ohtani is a high risk with that much dedicated to him.
He will pitch moving forward. He can definitely move to a pen role and possibly give a team 1 2 3 innings in relief. Angels have simply used him as a starter. Imagine him as a relief pitcher to prolong his pitching career. Or even as the closer.
Hard to warm up mid game when batting.
True if you also field a position.
What do you think DHs do exactly between their next at bats in the order? Almost like that time till your next at bat could be used somehow. Bat in the 1st. Bat in the 4th. Bat in the 7th. What are DHs doing in the 2, 3, 5, 6 innings.
And how long is an inning typically for home team to bat and away team to bat? And what are DHs doing when the opposing team is batting?
Wrong question. The right one is what are closers doing to prepare in the 7th and 8th innings that they cannot do in the dugout.
If you don’t know the answer, then not a good idea to be commenting on what you don’t understand.
My starter is nearing his pitch limit, but should make it thru the inning. Ohtani is my 4th hitter in the bottom of the inning, so if I send him to the bullpen to warm up, he may take a strike for delay of game, or have to stop his warm up to end up not batting. Still, it would only be a problem for one season, since MLB would pass a rule to make an exception for just him.
Or, build a mound down the tunnel. I’m sure there’s space down there somewhere they can have space for Ohtani to warm up
Idk why you send him ALL the way out to the bullpen in the OF or wherever its located when teams can probably build one a lot closer for him,
Probably would be a good idea so pitchers in general can stay warm if there is a delay or long inning.
Why did that BaseballisLife dude block me?
“Wrong question. The right one is what are closers doing to prepare in the 7th and 8th innings that they cannot do in the dugout.
If you don’t know the answer, then not a good idea to be commenting on what you don’t understand.”
Guess he realized he made a dumb statement and didn’t want to get rail roaded.
I didn’t mute you unfortunately. You keep making dumber and dumber comments and because I didn’t mute you, I keep seeing them.
Thanks for admitting that you don’t know the answer to my question.
No. How the hell can be a relief pitcher if he’s batting.? Do you want to explain that. Where is he going to have time warm up?
Depends on his role in the pen and order in the battling line up.
Closer
Top of the 7th warm up bottom of 7th warm up if not batting
Top 8th warm up bottom 8th bat.
Top 9th go out throw warm up pitches like every other closer.
Set up man.
Top 6th throw pitches bottom 6th bat
Top 7th throw pitches bottom 7th throw pitches
Top 8th pitch after throwing warm up before facing batters
“BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS AND THAT AND THIS AND THAT”
Any argument you make for why he can’t pitch in the pen is nullified by the fact he can go out there pitch to 9 batters effectively and still DH. Doesn’t miss a beat of how to approach a hitter or pitcher.
People act like there’s no top or bottom of an inning where he can throwing pitches to warm up as a pen arm and like there’s no time between your next at bat at all.
Alright! He can now concentrate only on hitting and hit 63 home runs next year so Judge can hit 64. Rivalry, what a nice mix.
The Doctor’s name sounds made up.
Maybe Rendon should see Ohtani’s doctor
I think Rendon needs Dr Bob and Bill W. Their unique program is the only proven method for overcoming his self destructive ailments.
> Maybe Rendon should see Ohtani’s
Rendon doesn’t have a bad elbow.
He has a bad-everthing-else-including-both-elbows.
Rendon needs to see a witch doctor
Dodgers working on Ohtani to protect their future player—
Los Angeles Dodgers head team physician Dr. Neal ElAttrache operated Tuesday at the Cedars-Sinai Kerlan-Jobe Institute in Los Angeles.
The Reds team physician does a lot of surgeries and I haven’t seen all those guys flocking to Cincinnati.
The reds also haven’t been to the playoffs 11 straight years
Hemlock: Before Dr. ElAttrache, the Dodgers had two team doctors who were specialists in tjs who players with UCL injuries sought out to perform their surgery. Their names escape me but I’m sure someone will refresh my memory.
Avenger- wasn’t one of them Dr. Jobe? I want to say the other was Dr. Kerlan or Radinsky.
Something to ponder, he had TJ surgery in 2018, didn’t pitch in 2019. Sixty game season in 2020, 12 starts if he goes every fifth day? Then pitches in full 162 game seasons in 2021, 2022 & almost 2023 before needing a second TJ procedure. There have been a few other pitchers who needed a second TJ surgery also. So, what’s really going on? The surgeons not doing a good reconstruction job or, are the pitchers just throwing to hard without good mechanics and blowing out their arms?
It wasn’t tommy John the doctor does internal brace procedure also check the wording of his statement
Going to look good in pinstripes.
Heal up, superstar. Will be fascinating to watch half the clubs courting him!
Is the league contracting? Maybe 5-7 teams can actually fit him on payroll, and some of them will be maxing on the one acquisition.
There are 4 teams in California alone that can afford him and all 4 will be in bidding.
At least 10 more that can afford him easily. Pretty close to half.
I count San Francisco and LA. I guess Angels will bid just to say they did. San Diego lost their TV contract and has already extended themselves, so I’m skeptical. Oakland is out. Can I rule out all the AL central teams, and the NL central teams? What East teams do you feel will be bidding when he wants to stay on the west coast? Texas and possibly Seattle may be in. Who are your other 10? I am being generous with six.
I agree with Sty, the number of serious inquiries is closer to six than 14. Perhaps a franchise or two will surprise and take it to eight.
With the possible exception of the Cubs, the NL and AL Central teams are out. For example, Twins, Sox, Tigers, Cards, and Brewers have payrolls between $120-160M. Would any of these teams spend one third to one half their payroll on a single player (even you count him as two players)?
Let’s say you are the General Manager of a team and the owner came to you and said you could spend $60M more each of the next ten years. Would you be better off signing Ohtani, or six $10M guys? Or two $20M and two $10M guys? Most, if not all, teams would be better off with the depth.
Most teams would be foolish to make such a gamble, but some team will.
So sad that you can’t count to 4.
Dodgers. Angels. Giants. Padres.
Padres lost their TV contact but increased both their market and revenue. They will be in the bidding.
Cubs are NL Central and will definitely be in the bidding.
Texas, Seattle, and Houston.
Both NY teams.
Boston. Philadelphia. Toronto.
Atlanta can certainly afford him but likely won’t be bidding.
That’s 14.
Ohtani also said “they keep the home run hat. Or burn it. Whatever.”
The Marlins make the most sense, but they’re broke.
Kim Ng raises her hand, stands up, opens her mouth, but the words just won’t come out. She sits back down and mutters, “Yeah, they ARE broke.”
Sounds like a brace but the timeline seems inconsistent. This is just speculation on my part but maybe he simply doesn’t want to pitch until he can get a full offseason program in, allowing him to focus on maximizing the bat. Most pitchers aren’t good the 1st season back from elbow surgery anyway. Regardless, he’s still a top MVP candidate in 2024 and I’m glad this won’t keep him off the field on Opening Day. This dude put the entire Angels season on his back this year and put his body through the wringer to do it. Anyone who says otherwise didn’t watch many Angels games. Hope the M’s sign him!
Ohtani’s pitching future may be as a closer.
So when does he warm up?
He can’t be getting ready to hit and warm up at the same time.
People who think he’s a closer are not thinking this through, because the only time he can warm up are in games that fit a very narrow window. And you are crazy if you think his warmup will be quick.
Between innings. Top of the 8th. Bottom of the 8th. Come in and throw some pitches in the 9th. Maybe as soon as top of the 7th. Bottom of the 7th. Get some pitches in to warm up the arm.
You have really not paid much attention to how a closer prepares to pitch, have you?
He can’t run back and forth from the bullpen to the dugout for 2-3 innings. It’s not going to work.
He will start or not pitch.
Sorry just laughing. That’s going to be better for his arm. And what if he’s on base in the 8th or comes up in the 8th or might come up in the 8th. Unless he has ten free minutes and almost no down time, he won’t have any time.
The Giants will make him an offer then accidently look at Carlos Correa’s old x-rays and mistake them for Ohtani’s and rescind.
He’ll be a Cub, 6 Yr $250 mil
There’s no way he’s accepting an AAV lower than Scherzer and Verlander, he will be entering the 2024 season the highest paid player in baseball history regardless of the surgery
I agree that’s true, but it baffles me how two contracts that are pretty universally looked at as being bad becomes the standard. Harper’s contract has looked good so far, so it seems like that should be the standard.
The Angels will resign him with the caveat that he must give Rendon blood transfusions.
Now THIS is how you make $500 million. The statements above are perfect and well orchestrated and a finely tuned machine has put this all together.
Also included is Ohtani’s personal statement.., go Angels, rooting for his teammates, getting ready, etc. This stuff is as good as it gets.
He’s got a good heart and is a grinder. My question is…will batting hurt his healing and prolong him getting back on the mound?
Indeed. Loving the language used in spinning a second TJ into something that is not a second TJ.
Maybe that is because it wasn’t a TJ. A TJ is a ligament replacement. This was a ligament brace.
First year as DH only it’s tough to see him pulling down the predicted $500m guaranteed money. It’s going to require a creative contract from some team. One with some huge performance bonuses and opt-outs seems likely.
As a hitter only he would get the same AAV as Judge or more. Because he is going into his age 29 season he will get 11-12 years. $440-480 million.
I think you are right about some team getting creative.
11-12 years $40 million AAV plus $500k per start.
Cue the song “Kansas City, Here I Come”. Well, I got a good laugh out of it.
Pitchers with multiple TJ surgery are not guaranteed to have good results after the second TJ surgery. Read the list and you will find about half are pretty much done after the second surgery, yet the other half did okay. Take note that most had the first surgery earlier in their careers than Ohtani did and that is a factor. I suggest he will not be the pitcher ever again that he was the last couple of years. So, the big contract is a bet on a DH, not a position player who can adequately p[lay the field. That limits his bidders even more.
Nathan eovaldi has done okay. Others can think of more names but Eovaldi seems to have a strong elbow. It’s just the other things he gets nicked up on.
Complex valuation problem for a GM. You have no idea what he’s worth as a pitcher, but his hitting, assuming he stays on the field, is in Judge 2022 range. Acknowledging Judge was an overpay, still, you start at $40M per year, and then what’s his pitching worth–even if you can only pencil in 120IP per season. Is that Kershaw money on top of Judge money?
The Angels paid Upton and Syndergaard a combined $53 million last year.
And people get mad at Rendon. The Angels are a better team with Rendon in the lineup.
It’s not like the guy hits his wife.
Rendon is a terrific player. So is Sale. It’s just a shame that, for some reason, their bodies keep breaking down. It’s not their fault.
Not a complex valuation problem for a GM. This is an owner’s call … period.
He has broken down in August 2 years in a row…
If he was on a playoff team, could he even maintain his ability to play as late as early November?
Jim Morrison wrote a song about this guy. ‘this is the end, my only friend the end
But Morrison also wrote a song about the GM… “I woke up this morning and got myself a beer.”
The same thing is true for Ohtani as it was for Garrett Cole. We can spend that money elsewhere to fill holes we still have around the diamond and BP and rotation. Unfortunately when we missed out on Cole, we squandered the money on Rendon. Hopefully we use wisdom this time if and when Ohtani signs elsewhere. I hope that is the case…too risky.
Who’s we, sucka?
“Smith & Wesson and ME!”
We = The Angels
Unfortunately when we missed out on Cole, we squandered the money on Rendon.
==========================
When he mentioned Rendon, the natural assumption should be that it was the Angels.
As usual, the Angels are secretive about the type of procedure Ohtani had. They know but they never tell the truth.
I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t need to know.
Less and less I care about what players, managers, and management say to the press. Most of it is BS, and what isn’t BS, the press will often embellish.
The problem is it leaves the fans to speculate mostly ridiculous scenarios. Just tell the truth to the people who are spending millions on tkts, beer, hot dogs, etc.
Not fans that have been around the block.
We’re smarter than this? Are we not?
And what good is speculating when you know the stuff written about is skewed?
Hockey is even worse. They just call it upper or lower body injuries
They were secretive because they have no idea. I don’t think they are involved at all. It’s over for them. Some guy above posted it was the Dodgers surgeon?
I think in this case there is also a little bit of deferring by the team to Ohtani’s people.
Those people are controlling the information shared and starting marketing campaign to squeeze Arte for every penny they can.
I wonder why any fan believes they are entitled to know. The teams bidding on his services are the only ones with the need to know, and they will have access to his medical records. End of story.
Because in the end we the fans pay the salaries? That might be one reason.
Plus there’s reporters whose sole job is to report this stuff. Find out what’s going on with the team and the players.
That’s like saying you’re entitled to know the personal, private details of everyone who works at Apple because you bought an iPhone. Hope I don’t have to explain why it doesn’t work that way, and why curiosity isn’t a reason for why it should.
The sports media can only report the information that someone chooses to disclose. In this case, nobody has disclosed them, at least not so far. The teams will know all the details, but we’re not entitled to any of them. Deal with it.
Because in the end we the fans pay the salaries?
===========================
If you had a chronic medical condition, would you disclose it to anyone, like maybe a future employer?
Blueskies that’s not the same thing but I’m inclined to side with what you’re saying overall rather than what I’m saying.
I was considering the question why, and it’s maybe because fans are footing the bill? Not saying that’s right. I’m with you here.
I wouldn’t answer that question the way you would approve of Joe. I tend to be honest and let the chips fall where they may.
If I have a chronic medical condition and the question comes up as it relates to performing my job, I would tell the truth. That’s just how it is. If I don’t work at that particular place or they don’t hire me, so be it, I’ll work somewhere else or do a different job.
Probably not the answer most would give but it’s mine. I’m a “be honest and let the chips fall where they may” type of a guy.
Analogies are never perfect by definition, but the idea is close enough. Bottom line, fans already know way more about baseball players in terms of their salaries and their health than we do of just about anyone else outside of our personal circles. This seems to inspire a kind of entitlement to know, when the only people actually entitled to know are their employers. Our spending money on the product doesn’t give us any special privileges.
He’s gotta leave the Angels.
The Reds will sign him as a DH and he hits 60 homers in his sleep in GABP.
That’s about as ridiculous as a lot of what I read above.
Grichuk just got drilled in the head. I can’t watch this train wreck anymore
…and another decisive loss courtesy of the bull pen, specifically Loup.
He makes me loupy
Really hope new ownership is in place next season for the Angels. As much fun it is to watch Ohtani and Trout play, it’s still a team sport and they’re surrounded by “just guys”. Time to build it from the minors up correctly.
Moreno is a proven failure at caring to build a winning team for 20 years. It hasn’t mattered who his GM is. The “strategy” and results are always the same.
Moreno needs to hire a team President, then leave him the “F” alone.
He needs to sell the team!
Couldn’t agree more to both comments.
Cubs should be all over Ohtani in the off-season. Pretty sure they were the only NL team he even considered when he first came to America. But it won’t happen. Ricketts is too cheap & ball-less.
The worst thing about Ricketts is, he hasn’t been to Wrigley since the ring ceremony in 2017 against the Dodgers. Otherwise he literally let’s his silver spoon kids run the team. They have to ask for his approval to spend his money. The Cubs priority should be to re-sign Bellinger and Candelario. They need to have Matt Shaw play as much 3rd as possible. I can see him making his debut in early 2024.
A writer said that Adam Wainright could be the “last of the 200 game winners” on this morning’s MLB Morning Lineup post. A more stupid bit of hyperbole I may never read. So, he was saying that someone averaging 14 wins over 15 seasons “may never happen again.” Or average 15 wins over 14 seasons. Or any perfectly achievable math you want. Stupid.
True BPax, 200 wins should be easily obtainable by Ace pitchers who have some longevity. Now 300 wins, that’s a different story.
Everyone acts like he’s a DH forever if he can’t or doesn’t want to continue pitching. Would he not be s good to great corner outfielder with his athletic abilities. Attach his offense and he’s still an ~8 win player
He is extremely athletic with tremendous strength and speed. Undoubtedly he would be an excellent outfielder but he wants to pitch and until proven otherwise, that is what he will likely do. Besides, as an owner you would want to ride that arm as far as it will take you because good arms are hard to come by in comparison to good bats in the outfield. Maybe somewhere in the distant future he will settle into the outfield. The kid loves to play and you can see it when he is on the field, which is clearly where he wants to be.
Mets fanbase, he’ll be a Met.
Dodgers fanbase, he’ll be a Dodger.
Yankees fanbase, he’ll be a Yankee.
Phillies fanbase, he’ll be a Phillie.
And he’ll shock the baseball world and go to Seattle. 8/500mil options for a 9th,10th and 11th year. Opt outs after the 4th and 6th year. If he wins mvp and Cy Young 1 million dollars for each time he wins. An extra 3million if he wins both in any back to back seasons.
He will not go to Seattle. He will not mess with Ichiro’s legacy. Japanese people are taught to respect others. It’s in their DNA. If he went to Seattle and bested him, Ichiro would lose face. Even if Ichiro is recruiting him, Otani knows better. It will not happen.
Think about what appeals to Japanese people in general, not what you think they want. For example, Otani would enjoy playing with (not for) a winning team but it’s not what will compel him to play for one. Think about what Otani does when the Angels play an away game. He can be seen slugging away at the corners to see how much power it will take to knock it out of the park. Otani wants to improve only himself. That’s his challenge, his goal. He wants to master everything brought to baseball. We see it on both sides of the plate.
Think about what appeals to Otani when he’s not playing and that will give you all the clues you need to predict where he will sign.
It wasn’t meant to be a serious comment.
Will be interesting to see what Trout does with wherever Ohtani goes. If Ohtani goes Trout will surely be gone as well I’m guessing. Not saying Trout will follow Ohtani to a particular team but may want out of the Angels organization if they don’t sign him. I would think that Trout is tired of losing seasons as well. I’ve been an Angels fan for years and can’t understand why they can’t seem to put it all together for a winning season?!? Kinda sad :(. I think Ohtani will stay on the west coast. Northeastern climates are too cold in the spring and fall months which are not ideal for surgically repaired arms in my experience or even healthy ones for that matter. Going to be an interesting winter for Ohtani and Trout for sure.
If and when the Angels decide to hypothetically shop Trout for a trade to another team some day, I wonder what they could even realistically get back for him at this point, considering his not-small salary year after year and frequent time hurt these days. One in a million player obviously, but starting down the back 9 of his career:/
People who say that Ohtani can be in the hitting lineup and pitch in relief in the same game need to be stripped of their posting privileges. They know nothing about how baseball works.
He should’ve had the surgery immediately. Instead Anaheim made the excuse that it was a oblique strain. They were out of contention. There was no reason to delay it.
He still wouldn’t of pitched in 2024. You wouldn’t want a rehabbing pitcher pitching critical September innings anyway (I’m talking about 2024 it would be 1 year). He’s not going to rush this it’s his second surgery, it’d be a little bit different if it was his first. You don’t want him to rush back and never heal right.
Yeah that was a very oblique strategy on the Angels’ part.
The Mets are going to make a move to get Ohtani. After they saw they only had a small chance to get back into wild card contention they traded Verlander and Scherzer. The next one gone is Pete Alonzo because they want Ohtani to DH full-time. That will give the Mets payroll flexibility to offer a blank check and tell Ohtani to fill it in.
I can see the red sox jumping in on him assuming they can afford to let others play the field while he dh’s ..this is the splash ownership wants
Any club that offers to pay this guy $50m per year deserves what they get. Which is a talented guy who has now had two TJ surgeries and oblique issues and leg issues…and he’s 29. If Steve Cohen offers this guy a blank check then Mets fans will suffer for another decade.
But the NYM will again win the off season!
Hey at least they’re finally winning SOMETHING! Baby steps
He will be wearing Dodger Blue in 2024.
He’s NOT GOING TO THE METS!! For Christ’s sake
Shohei Ohtani….Padres DH in 2024!
Padres are looking to cut payroll in ’24, not add to it
Ohtani will make tens of millions through his career no matter what, but the question is on what kind of basis or guarantee?
On the one hand, a healthy Ohtani, at his age, deserves 10 years/$550 Million.
On the other hand, an Ohtani coming off another TJ surgery, requiring more recovery time, probably losing most or all of 2024 and a massive question mark with insanely high upside in 2025 and a free agent is… a conundrum.
2 year deal with a 1 year token salary and a 2nd year come back discount and some variety of club and mutual options?
Short-term multi year guarantee at the highest AAV possible with a discounted first year to account for his recovery?
Eff It YOLO long term record breaking contract anyway?
I think he will get an exceptionally complex contract with a ton of scenarios baked into the deal:
I think it’ll be like 2 years/$65M guaranteed with separate club and player options.
This would be in the form of 1 year/$30M to recuperate and possibly return early at a “discount”, followed by a guaranteed 1 year/$35M to ostensibly come back at 100%, with a 2 year/$35M player option in the form of $17.5M annual base salary that has $37.5M a year in incentives to potentially make it 4 years/$175M, also including a club option to instead exercise a guaranteed 4 years/$220M or something like that, including tons o bonuses of up to $15M a year for various achievements- innings pitched, starts made, days spent on the active roster, MVP and Cy Young top 5 or 10 finishes or first place wins, etc.
Worst case scenario, he is paid an additional $65M and never plays again- this would function effectively as back pay for the years he was underpaid on that deal he signed early on- kinda like Steph Curry.
Best case scenario: He recuperates early in the 2024 season and comes back to play the rest of the season at a plus value capacity and goes on to more than earn salaries totaling $330M over six years, plus he achieves most or all of the bonuses, for a grand total value of 8 years/$395M to $515M, but likely somewhere in between these two values.
Whatever Trillion, Ohtani won’t sign any contract based on incentives, injury or not. Why would he when they’ll still be plenty of offers out there fully guaranteed at 10 years, and still at or over $450 million.
Career over.
You know, just that standard ol’ generic “Elbow Surgery”. No specific procedure name, don’t worry