Jonathan India’s name has been swirling in trade rumors for months, and the Blue Jays are the latest team to show some interest in the Reds second baseman, according to Bob Elliott of the Canadian Baseball Network (X link). Toronto has been mentioned as a speculative fit for India given the Jays’ need for second base help, though there isn’t any indication that a trade might be close, or whether this is anything beyond due diligence on the Blue Jays’ part.
Since Matt Chapman and Whit Merrifield are both in the free agent market, the Jays have been left pretty thin at both second and third base. In-house candidates Cavan Biggio, Santiago Espinal, Davis Schneider, and Ernie Clement are all on the big league roster, while any of Addison Barger, Orelvis Martinez, or Leo Jimenez could make their Major League debuts in 2024 and work their way into the infield picture.
While Toronto has plenty of options in terms of volume, however, there isn’t much in the way of proven Major League capability. Biggio and Espinal have been inconsistent during their big league tenures, Schneider and Clement both hit very well in small sample sizes in 2023, and the rest have no big league track records at all (though Martinez and Barger are highly-regarded prospects).
India could provide an answer at second base, though the former NL Rookie of the Year isn’t exactly a sure thing coming off two somewhat underwhelming seasons. Since winning the ROY in 2021, India has hit .246/.333/.394 with 27 homers over 960 plate appearances for Cincinnati, with hamstring injuries and plantar fasciitis impacting his ability to stay on the field. Public defensive metrics have also been very unimpressed with India’s glovework, so his contributions as a second baseman specifically could be limited.
Even with these factors in mind, India just turned 27 two days ago and is only entering the first of three arbitration-eligible years, so Cincinnati normally wouldn’t be looking to trade such a controllable player. And, technically, the Reds aren’t open to a deal, as president of baseball operations Nick Krall has stated that the team isn’t “motivated” to move India elsewhere. The question of big league experience is also a factor in Cincinnati, as while the Reds are overloaded with young infielders ready for more MLB time, Krall also values the stability and depth India brings in the event of injury problems, or if some of the youngsters need more minor league seasoning.
That said, the Reds’ signing of Jeimer Candelario only added to the infield surplus. If Candelario is now taking regular time at third base, that leaves India, Matt McLain, Elly De La Cruz, and Noelvi Marte all competing for middle infield spots. Even if Candelario slides over to first base, Christian Encarnacion-Strand also needs a place to play, and the DH position provides some a few extra at-bats for the Reds to juggle all these options.
The fit in Toronto also wouldn’t be perfect. As noted, India would be a defensive downgrade at second base, and the keystone is also the better defensive spot for most of the Blue Jays’ in-house options. In his look at India’s trade market last month, MLBTR’s Nick Deeds observed that while the Jays are planning to contend in 2024, they also might not want to block Schneider or Clement entirely from at least semi-regular playing time. Speculatively, an India trade package could involve the Jays sending one of their most experienced infielders (i.e. Biggio or Espinal) back to Cincinnati so the Reds could have some of the depth they crave, though pitching is the Reds’ greatest need.
It has been a quiet winter in terms of actual transactions if not headlines in Toronto, as the Blue Jays’ business has in some ways been impeded by their pursuit of Shohei Ohtani. Obviously GM Ross Atkins and his front office weren’t singularly focused on Ohtani over the offseason’s first six weeks, yet after coming up short to the Dodgers in the Ohtani race, the Jays still have a pretty full to-do list that includes the two infield positions, left field, DH, and perhaps the rotation and bullpen.
Habitual Truth Teller
Trade involving Jonathan India and Alek Manoh makes a lot of sense. Both could use a change of scenery. Other details will need to be hammered out.
Buzzz Killington
My thoughts exactly.
ellisd19830
Just what manoah needs to build his confidence back up.. pitching in a band box.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Better for the Reds to trade Jeimer
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Yep, I did not see the wisdom with that FA signing.
Alan Horn
Same here.. The money should have been spent on a SP.
stricke3
That’s nuts.
Ranger Danger19
Ezequiel Duran for Alex Manoah.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
That is actually spot on as Reds are looking for pitchers. I kinda think at this point, Red Sox will sign Merrifield.
Big whiffa
Great fit ! An India return for manoah seems a little light. Reds could throw a potential back end starter to maybe get it done like Richardson or Aguair.
Or possibly Blake Dunn. Hate to see him go though.
And as a reds fan, I lack confidence they can bring manoah back to form, but def worth the risk !
octavian8
The return is light only if Manoah returns to form. If he doesn’t Cincy has given away a team leader and a solid starter at 2B. This is the nature of a trade.
MVottoP76
Hell yeah I’ll take Manoah
StusFirstDollar
No one wants Manoah lol. Can we stop this rhetoric? No one wants chubby McGee
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I’ve seen what Manoah has done in the past, I would take a chance on him personally
Degaz
It does but Manoah has a lot more potential bust than India.
bigdaddyt
Oh great another not guy not good enough to start with the bat who ends up just being a crazy streaky hitter whose just barley a serviceable defender
Alan Horn
India was ROY and has been injured. He is expendable by the Reds because of a wealth of good young infielders on the Reds.
Poolhalljunkies
Doesnt manoah have alot higher ceiling than india..i mean he was a legit top of the rotation guy..
ksoze
India was rookie of the year
EnglishM
So was Kyle Lewis and don’t see many clubs lining up to take a shot on him.
osonvs
Manoah was a cy young candidate.
solaris602
The key word in most of these posts is WAS. The problem, of course, is determining with any certainty what these players’ IS might actually be.
Degaz
Sure but Manoah has way lower floor too…like may never get right agin floor.
gvnbuist
I almost don’t even care any more. Just do something
Mai Pen Rai
Agree, this is starting to get cringy
Jorboy
Same but for different reasons
Very Barry
Perfect Colorado Rockies experiment guy. See if you can build his offensive consistency, and his trade value in the thin air.
JoeBrady
Have the Rockies ever sold high on a player?
TrumboRedux
I really do not know anything about this guy. His stats seem about 2 notches above stone average at best to me. Is he a Reds legend or something? Was he a highly rated prospect? I see his name pop up constantly on here now…
NeilK4
India was the #5 overall pick and won NL ROY in 2021 but has trended down significantly in the two years since. Off the field and in the clubhouse, he’s an awesome guy. He’s a good leader and unites the team.
Unfortunately, I don’t think he has a long-term spot in Cincinnati. But wherever he goes, he’ll be a guy to root for.
TrumboRedux
Thank you Neil for that. It definitely paints a clearer picture for me! Sounds like major potential!
JoeBrady
That’s the way I see it as a RS fan. I think the Reds are going to over-value him. His defense is poor, so even if his offense reverts to his rookie year, he will still only be a good player, at best.
I like gambling on potential, but only for the 2nd tier RS prospect(s).
Tiger22matt
No thanks don’t need prospects with zero chance of being something. The Reds have plenty of those themselves.
ruff kuntry
Former 1st rouser 5th overall guy who had a legit rookie year in 2021. Was this year your first year watching baseball?
TrumboRedux
No Kuntry, I have heard his name thrown around but as a SoCal guy I catch the Reds games only when they are in town. Being a ROY I probably should have known more about him. I just noticed he wasnt ROY haha Either way I can only follow so many players
TrumboRedux
Yikes I guess he was haha. See how confused I am?
casey21
He was playing with a foot injury most of last year. He started off the year looking like the ROY season then the Achilles injury really slowed him down in the field and running the bases.
TrumboRedux
I will be keeping a close eye on him this year.
Franklin Nitty
I think he is tremendous, is the most professional player on the team as well. Was the leader in the clubhouse, picked up the slack Joey Votto never gave them in that dept. On the field when he is healthy he is a stick of dynamite at the too of the order. Takes walks and does the little things well. Makes no sense for the Reds to trade him, he is way more important to them than he would be anywhere else.
jbryant0693
Reds are trading India because they have a glut of infield depth, but the writer “speculatively” suggests the Reds might want infield depth back? Sheesh. I think we can speculate a little better than that.
stymeedone
Did you speculate them adding Candelario?
NeilK4
Earlier this month, Krall gave an interview in which he said that they don’t necessarily see it as the Reds having ‘too many’ infielders. He cited that Barrero, Newman, and Senzel all received significant time due to inexperience and injuries. He also admitted that there might not be full-time at bats available to India.
So this isn’t speculation by the author. But it was deflection by Krall. No, technically, there aren’t ‘too many’ infielders if you make India a rotational guy. But I would bet anything that India’s camp has made it clear to the FO that he sees himself as a full-time player and would be unhappy if he doesn’t play as such.
jbryant0693
Of course Krall would publicly say that LOL. To say otherwise reduces his leverage and makes it as though he HAS to trade. And what you are betting with India’s camp is meaningless speculation on your part.
JoeBrady
I agree. I’ve been thru 1000 off-seasons, and these speeches are almost identical.
1-You don’t keep a guy on the bench that could be a starter elsewhere.
2-India might be good, but he lacks the fielding skills to be a UIF.
solaris602
Now this is beginning to sound like a Padres’ post. By the way, they’re down to only 6 shortstops on the roster and looking to “creatively” find a seventh if anyone is interested in Cronenworth AND his ridiculous extension.
Hired Gun 23
Cronenworth…
Biggie22
I’ve been a proponent of trading India because I don’t think he has a position with Reds that would fit with Elly playing SS & McLain playing 2B…. I think the younger potential superstars need to play as much as possible & India’s too good (when healthy) not to be playing regularly….
I do think his defensive deficiencies are a little overstated on here… It almost seems like they paint him as a liability on defense & that’s not the case at all…. He very rarely makes errors; it’s just he lacks the range of some of the top statcast guys out there but as a fielder he’s actually been very dependable throughout his Reds career…
Hopefully, the Reds can find a deal that can work for both teams because I’ll definitely be rooting for India if he does get traded…
Canuckleball
@ Biggie22
As to his defense, Statcast had his Outs Above Average at minus 5, minus 7 and minus 5 during his 3 years so far (total -17). Fielding Bible has his Defensive runs saved at 0 in year one, but an impressive minus 14 in year two and a minus 7 in year three (total -21)
That -14 DRS in 2022 was the worst mark of anyone on the entire Reds team.
You say he doesn’t commit a lot of errors (15,10,9 in his three years) You said yourself he has limited range. He doesn’t commit ‘that’ many errors because he simply doesn’t get to the ball. That doesn’t make it better.
His defensive deficiencies are real and they are truly a liability to a team trying to compete
Franklin Nitty
These stat guys are funny.
Biggie22
Let me preface by saying I am a believer in analytics…. I just don’t always trust the number compiled especially; defensive analytics because there’s too many variables that can come into play (playing conditions etc.) that aren’t always accounted for in the analytics..
I almost cringe when people taught their defense for bringing in and/or up a player…. I mean yes I agree you have to be able to catch & field but I’ll take a Sin Shin Choo (poor defensively) over Billy Hamilton (great defensively) every day…. (And I loved Billy Hamilton…
I watched pretty much every Reds game & I can tell you India may not be Pokee Reese but has not been a liability either defensively…. I mean let’s be real his worst year was 7 outs above replacement…. Again how do you take into account when those missed outs occur…. I mean was it the 3rd inning against the Pirates when we’re up 6-1? Again I watched pretty every game & I don’t recall many time if any his lack of defense actually cost us a game or even a run…. It’s another reason I think defensive analytics can be a little over blown.. They count account for the situation & India’s been clutch more than not from what I’ve seen…
Biggie22
Shin-Soo Choo stupid edit ran out of time before I was able to make corrections:)…
Franklin Nitty
When one of the 3 young infielders starts the season hitting .130 with 10 errors the first 2 months youll truly see how much depth you have.
sweetg
Anyone that means Blue Jays finally move on from Biggio. His only selling point is he okay defensively at many positions. He is never going to hit enough.
muskie73
Jonathan India and Craig Biggio provide interesting comps.
India, who 20 months younger than Biggio, has three years of team control while Biggio has two years of team control.
India has posted 4.8 fWAR and 5.2 bWAR in 372 career games while Biggio has posted 6.1 fWAR and 7.0 bWAR in 446 career games.
india was the 2021 NL Rookie of the Year with a career-high OPS+ of 116 while Biggio finished fifth in the 2019 AL ROY voting with an OPS+ of 113.
Steamer projects India with a 2024 WAR of 1.4 in 100 games and Biggio with a 2024 WAR 0.9 in 112 games.
MLB Trade Rumors projects India and Biggio each with a 2024 salary of $3.7 million.
octavian8
I don’t believe we trade India for Biggio. First if we wanted infield depth we keep India. Second we really aren’t trying to get rid of him. If we can address an area of need then we would be foolish not to. Manoah would make some sense however.
The Former Player
Biggio has been more valuable than the gluttonous slob guerrero jr. Only 1 notable season to guerrero’s name and yet the blue Jay’s will still probably be stupid enough to try to give him a new contract.
good vibes only
False.
GRE
Vladdy is a bust ….No brains on the bases ….a flailer at the plate….
its_happening
Or Biggio plays LF. Knowing the Jays it is possible.
Wire to wire 2024
India for manoah who says no
georgebell 2
Atkins
Degaz
Ozempic!
TurnOffTheTV
Blue jays
Wire to wire 2024
Manoah had almost a six era last season
JoeBrady
Manoah at his best is better than India at his best, by a fair margin.
As a RS fan, I’d be glad to trade for India if I thought I could flip him to TO for Manoah.
Degaz
Manoah could also be out of baseball in a couple years if not sooner. Head case..
Ducey
No way. Manoah could have a bounce back and get back to being a top of a rotation guy. India isn’t any better than the Jays in house options.
Wire to wire 2024
So could India
stymeedone
India will never be a top of a rotation guy.
its_happening
Jays need Manoah to be the 5th. They don’t have a 6th and it’ll cost them more in the end to find Manoah’s replacement.
KamKid
I don’t think Manoah is all that expendable. Maybe if they sign a starter, but on paper right now he’s the fifth starter. Even if they sign another starter, I don’t think they’d use Manoah in trade for a guy limited to 2B. It’s not at all a priority as they figure to have about 8 players on the 40 man roster who profile best at 2B. They have a real need for multiple position players elsewhere on the diamond. 3B and OF is a bigger priority.
octavian8
India played 3B in college
PhiladelphiaCollins
I think he could work out as a Cleveland India
octavian8
Too late for that and India Guardian is a tongue twister
Shady1771
Maybe the Jays should just fill in their roster holes with what they have and roll the dice.
I still like Biggio at 3B – played well when thrown in to cover off Chappy.
Schneider and Espinol platoon at 2B.
Lukes in LF, Varsho in CF and Springer in RF.
Try for JD Martinez as DH and give it a shot. Maybe try to make a move at the trade deadline if they are even remotely close to a playoff spot.
phony ternandez
Shatkins, please do not read Shady’s post and get any ideas.
Shady1771
It just seems like no decent players are interested in playing for the Jays so why keep beating a dead horse. If players actually want to be in Toronto they will have their agents reach out.
bestone
Jays FO are gun-shy after botching “the” trade from last year; and having constant reminders from the fans ever since last year’s early exit and the Dbacks excellent playoff run. The analytics team is broken, resulting in zero activity this off season (except for getting a new catcher for Buffalo).
Players are running in the opposite direction after the bad pressers and souring of the fans. The FO needs to go!
GRE
The 2 Clowns running the Jays have TO GO !!
BoJuBi
Was it the front offices fault we didn’t get ohtani? Or did Shohei make it clear already la was his choice all along?
solaris602
Wait a minute! I’m still at the TOR airport waiting for Ohtani’s plane. What are you suggesting?
vikingbluejay67
Rather they sign Tim Anderson to a 1year deal. TA tries to rebuild his market and has a higher ceiling than India
its_happening
India the fit at 3B? As improved as Cavan was at 3B he’s most likely the starter/platoon at 2B where he’s more suited. Or, he’s moving around the diamond to play a variety of positions. Unless India is the “solution” at third for the Jays, look elsewhere.
This one belongs to the Reds
Po Boy created this “glut” of infielders, as he called it because he don’t know how to build a team.
They already had one too many infielders for the spots they have. Then they go spend 15 million for a guy they didn’t know or need that had one good year. Meanwhile, they talk about dealing a guy that came up through their system, was their sparkplug and team leader on and off the field as they overachieved last season, and was ROY in 2021.
Finally, stat boys, actually watch the games. You might learn something. That includes this writer.
KamKid
I thought the Candelario signing was clever. He has more floor than your in house options at a very reasonable price compared to the cost of starting pitching in free agency. Now you could easily trade one of your infielders for cost controlled pitching. Especially since you took one of the best 3B options off the market.
This one belongs to the Reds
Don’t be surprised if this type of trade never happens. This front office is not good at dealing for experienced major league talent.
Alan Horn
I agree. 15 million a year with very limited past production will be very hard to move even if you gave him away.
jbryant0693
Kam – yes Caldelario signing was very clever. With all the youth in the infield, they needed a high floor guy and Candelario is the perfect fit. Easy to see regression in this infield with at least one of the young guys, and all the young infielders spent time on DL last year.
earmbrister
The Candelerio signing WAS smart. There were no compelling OF bats available in free agency so they targeted and landed the 5th highest rated FA position player. Despite what Doesn’t Belong says, Candelario has had quality seasons for 3 of the last 4 years. He’s a quality middle of the order bat that makes the lineup much better. I like India, but it was McLain’s promotion that replaced him. India plays one position and one position only. He doesn’t hit enough for a corner spot in the infield or the outfield.
India can and will be traded for pitching. And he deserves to play every day at 2B and bat leadoff. I’ll miss him, but you need to trade quality in order to get quality in return.
octavian8
The Candelario signing was a clear sign one of the young infielders will be traded for starting pitching. The deals framework is probably in place pending other factors. We’ll see how it plays out but may have been a great thing.
Alan Horn
I agree India needs to be the one to go, but I don’t agree that the Candelerio signing was smart. Not with one good season and at 15 million a year. They could pick up an insurance infielder at a much cheaper cost. They already have Barreo. They need to run with Marte, McClain, CES and De La Cruz at the 4 infield spots. They need to depend on the pitching (starters) that is already in the system rather than breaking the budget on a trade or FA. Don’t give up any young players at this time. Wait until you see what you have at the trade deadline. Although the young player’s value may decline at the deadline, hindsight is 20/20. whether good or bad..
earmbrister
Alan, I don’t get the “one good season” narrative. Candelario had OPS+s of 137, 121, 81, & 119 the last 4 years. With 100 being league average, those are three very good years out of the last four.
He was projected to get $70MM over four years ($17.5 per), so the $15MM per over 3 years is a relative bargain. Candelario has averaged an OPS+ of 112 over the last four years. Barrero has averaged an OPS+ of 34 over the last four years, with a high watermark of 67. There’s a reason Barrero is cheaper, he’s never hit. Candelario is a legit middle of the order bat, Barrero and his ilk is a #9 batter. If you trade, India, you have five players for five spots: the 4 IF spots plus DH.
I’d be ok with not trading for any other starter for now. Martinez gives you a swing starter and Lowder will be yet another pitcher that could be in MLB, as well as Petty, by mid season.
Alan Horn
Candelario is ours now, so it makes no difference., I would like to see CES get a a legitimate chance.. Candelario is going to take ABs from him as well as Marte, and De La Cruz. There is the DH but do you really want to DH Marte and De La Cruz. on a regular basis? I would guess Stephenson is going to get a lot of ABs at DH. I realize they are trying to prepare for injuries but what about when everyone is healthy? Someone is going to be unhappy. with the lack of opportunity.
jbryant0693
@Alan When everyone is healthy (probably not often), someone DH’s every day, pretty easy. Stephenson hasn’t done anything to warrant being in the DH rotation.
L:ast year, Votto/Senzel/Newman/Barrero combined for 974 PAs with very subpar OPS+ of 84.
Candelariio had 576 PAs with OPS+ of 119, and he will eat up some of the PAs from that latter group. He does not take any PAs away from the group of young infielders, unless one of them regresses and needs to be sent down (a possiblity).
This was a strong move to improve the team for sure.
earmbrister
Nor will EDLC be forced into a DH role by Candelario. I see Marte and Candelario sharing 3B/DH, while CES and Candelario share 1B/DH. It’s three players for three spots, with plenty of at-bats for all.
Alan Horn
As long as CES, De La Cruz, Marte and McClain get a valid opportunity to earn playing time. Stephenson was the strong choice to DH prior to last season. He did hit ok prior to last season. If he goes down with injury, catcher will be the weak link on the field with the bat.
Alan Horn
If that is the way it shakes out early on, then I am on board. What happens if EDLC continues to not hit. Does he get to try to play his way through it at the ML level or does he get sent back down to AAA?
jimmertee
No, just no.
JaysSinceBirth
This article is just showing why the Jays shouldn’t trade for him
solaris602
As a CLE fan I find the comment that the Jays need to find ABs for Ernie Clement very amusing.
HBRC1987
Well, there are a lot of Indians in Toronto so he would feel at home there.
BoJuBi
So technically its not a rumor? You mean the jays called to inquire? Oh well that’s huge news and a big shock, you mean to tell me the gm is making phone calls around the league to see who may be available and a player we all know is available is available? Wow you guys are really reaching.
Mets6986??
The Redsox should be in on India.
Big whiffa
Fitts for India ? Reds should do that if they can’t get anything better for him by the time spring training rolls around. India seems like a perfect fit in Boston !
joefleury
The Jays would be much better off going after the likes of Jorge Polanco. Much more proven bat and consistent numbers. The Twins need pitching and AM could use a change of scenery. The question with AM is his attitude, work ethic and weight. To get a bat like Polanco they may need to add some prospect to get this trade to happen.
Big whiffa
Or get prospects from reds if they take India route
Digdugler
There is no fit for Toronto, makes no sense. Biggio, Schneider, Clement are all fine or better. Espinal should have been non-tendered but he is also still on the team.
Big whiffa
As a reds fan,
a manoah/india swap is my preferred method of adding pitching. Going into 2023, he would have been the best option out of everyone available including cease coming off the pair of years he had. So the ceiling is there. Plus reds already have 7 other starters 4 in which pitched over a 100 innings under the age of 25. So if reds can acquire a guy like manoah for India and a couple prospects outside of their top 10- that’s the best way to add high end talent while preserving an extremely talented farm
TennVol
India does not help the Jays at all. Schneider and Biggio as a RH/LH platoon gets them superior offense and at least similar defense. If Manoah gets traded, it won’t be for a lower level player like India. It will be as part of a bigger deal for a player like Luis Robert from the White Sox or Soto if they had been more involved there.
octavian8
I think you are overestimating Manoah’s value. But it’s OK. Bigger brains than ours are handling this.
Whyme
Disagree I’d keep Manoah over trading for India.
DockEllisDee
I’m not somewhere where I can pore over stats but I think a deal involving Pearson would be intriguing and I’m pretty sure their timelines for team control line up iirc
LambchoP
Twins could offer Polonco to play 2nd base and add in Farmer as a quality utility IF. Give us back some good MLB pitching and lets get it done. Still waiting on the FIRST Twins move this offseason:(
charlesk
Yet another RHH 2B? Why? ♂️
Whyme
As A Jay’s fan no. The guy was league average hitting. Not worth giving up anything for him.
titanic struggle
As a Reds fan, good. Most of us don’t want him traded.
coldbeer
The Jays are thin at 2b/3b. Proceeds to name 4 in house names on the major league roster next sentence. Wowza
OilCanLloyd
If the Jays are Indeed interested, it does speak to what they believe they have in house.
MLBTR needs to hire editors
If you use “and” to start the sentence, there should not be a comma after it.