The Giants finalized their bold managerial move on Wednesday. San Francisco announced that they’ve hired University of Tennessee head coach Tony Vitello as the 40th manager in franchise history. He reportedly signed a three-year contract that pays $3.5MM annually with a vesting option for 2029.
“We’re thrilled to welcome Tony to the Giants family,” president of baseball operations Buster Posey said in the press release. “Tony is one of the brightest, most innovative, and most respected coaches in college baseball today. … We look forward to the energy and direction he will bring, along with the memories to be made as we focus on the future of Giants baseball.”
In recent years, several MLB teams have looked to hire coaches from the collegiate ranks or from other backgrounds with little or no pro experience, and some past or current managers have gotten their jobs with little to no coaching or managerial experience. However, Vitello is a unique case of a lifelong collegiate coach who is moving to professional baseball with no past history as a player, coach, or manager in either Major League or minor league ball.
This isn’t to say that Vitello doesn’t have a decorated resume, as the 47-year-old is one of the most successful NCAA coaches of the last decade. Since Vitello was hired by Tennessee in June 2017, the program won its first national baseball title in 2024, and made two more trips to the College World Series in both 2021 and 2023. The Volunteers also won the SEC regular-season and tournament crowns during the 2022 and 2024 seasons. Before coming to Tennessee, Vitello was an assistant baseball coach at Missouri, TCU, and Arkansas from 2003-2017.

Vitello is Posey’s first managerial hire since taking over the PBO role a year ago, as Bob Melvin was a holdover from Farhan Zaidi’s time in charge of San Francisco’s front office. Melvin had only been in the job for one season, and after he followed up that 80-82 campaign with an 81-81 mark in 2025, the Giants chose to fire Melvin once the 2025 campaign was over. This decision was made despite the fact that the Giants had exercised their 2026 club option on Melvin on July 1, yet the team’s inconsistent play over the last three months convinced Posey that a change had to be made.
Though Melvin’s time in San Francisco was uneventful, it will be fascinating to see how the team and the organization as a whole adjusts from a Major League lifer (and three-time Manager of the Year winner) like Melvin to Vitello in his first foray into pro baseball. That said, Vitello has something of an old-school approach himself, with a focus on fundamentals and competitiveness.
In a recent appearance on a Youth.inc podcast (hat tip to Baggarly for the partial transcript), Vitello said “I think everyone is suffering the consequences all the way up to the big leagues where guys are super skilled, but there’s less development, less coaching, less accountability and therefore less understanding of how to actually play the game to win. And it starts all the way, trickle-down effect.”
As Baggarly notes, Posey has shared similar critiques about players, which may explain why Vitello became a more attractive managerial candidate in the PBO’s eyes. It is also worth noting that Vitello may not have been Posey’s initial top choice, as initial reports pegged former Giants catcher Nick Hundley as a favorite for the manager’s position. Hundley withdrew his name from consideration, reportedly due to concerns over how the day-to-day grind of managing in the big leagues would impact his family.
Of all the names publicly linked to the Giants’ search, former Orioles skipper Brandon Hyde was the only one with past managerial experience at the big league level. Other known candidates included Royals third base coach Vance Wilson and two ex-players in Hundley and Kurt Suzuki (just hired yesterday as the Angels’ new manager) who had no coaching/managerial experience in the majors or minors. Clearly a traditional managerial resume wasn’t a key priority for Posey in assessing his choices, even if Vitello is a step beyond.
Managing a big league team and coaching a college team are very different animals, not to mention the gap between coaching college kids and overseeing a clubhouse of highly-paid veteran professionals. That said, Vitello is renowned as a leader and motivator. As detailed in Baggarly’s piece, such big leaguers as Scherzer and Angels reliever Ben Joyce (a Tennessee product) heavily praised Vitello, and think he’ll thrive managing in the Show.
With Vitello now in San Francisco, the Giants join the Angels (Suzuki) and Rangers (Skip Schumaker) as clubs who have now removed themselves from a busy managerial carousel. The Twins, Orioles, Padres, Nationals, Rockies, and Braves all remain as teams still looking for a new dugout boss.
Andrew Baggarly, Brittany Ghiroli and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first reported last week that the Giants were closing in on a deal with Vitello. Jacob Rudner of Baseball America was first to report that an agreement was in place. John Shea of The San Francisco Standard reported the contract terms. Photo courtesy of Brianna Paciorka — Imagn Images

First you can’t get any legit free agents to come into SF and now you have to dig up college coaches to fill your manager role? This organization is in rough shape.
I think you’ve got better material than this. Try again.
Coconuts how did you get all those thumbs up? Nobody else in this whole comment section is even close. Sometimes I wonder if these large numbers of thumbs up when it’s a comment answering a comment is even real. I just wonder I don’t know.
I cant vote down the Dodgers troll, so I voted up the reply instead
Well they sent most of their front office people to Williamsport Little League World Series and struck out on Manager material, They really wanted somebody with World Series experience. So then they turned to scouts to interview some LL players to fill some future lost free agents. Then they skipped high school altogether and went to the NCAA Rankings where they struck out at 1-11, and number 12 said he was free for the next 3 years and WHOOP, There it is! Ring around the Posey!
huh?
Wow your troll attempt turned into a long-winded fail
There are also college coaches that didn’t pan out like Matt Rhule who was awful and he somehow made baker mayfield look worse than Johnny Football.
While the roster and farm system are still light years behind the Dodgers, I think this is a solid pick for manager.
Absolutely!!!
is anyone else currently NOT light years behind the Dodgers?
The Phillies were even with the Dodgers until Wheeler went down IMHO. But they may lose Schwarber and Ranger. But I get your general point and mostly agree.
And the Padres in 2024
The Phillies are not on the same par as the Dodgers…….The Dodgers are in the toughest division in the NL ( except for the Rockies) and had to beat three other tough teams…….AND, I am not a Dodgers fan…….but do tip my hat to them for winning the NL with their well balanced lineup. Dave Roberts did an excellent job with all of the injuries, etc.
Hopefully. Remains to be seen.
Buster has shown he’s willing to make big trades and he’s signed a big free agent in Adames. But the work goes on. Need a big arm and another bat before we start planning for a parade.
Bieber and Bellinger would be a nice start then fill in 2B and 5th starter in house. Resign Ty Rogers!
In short, open the wallet, don’t be scared of the lux tax. Also, move on from former top prospects and get whatever you can (Luciano and Matos)
Willy Adames, Justin Verlander, Robbie Ray and Matt Chapman not enough for you, and that’s just in the last 2 years. I can expand on that list if you like!!!
Ray was not a free agent, but rather an excellent trade
He signed a extension to stay!!
Maybe I am just splitting hairs, but I think Ray merely declined to opt-out and has not yet signed an extension. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken. Otherwise, we are on the same page as to the big picture.
Not so. His contract for 2026 was part of the deal.
No he didn’t. He just didn’t take an opt out.
Not about being enough for me, I’ve looked at the standings and seen it’s not enough!! Plus did you really just include Verlander and the big get?
And all of those “programs” are football
Not saying it won’t work out with Vitelli, but it’s unprecedented and you can’t really use Harbaugh, Pete Carroll etc as examples
Vitelli’s hiring as the first MLB manager sans ANY Major League Baseball experience should be interesting,but I wonder how his hard-bitten players will take to him.
This isn’t NFL Trade Rumors.
The difference between the NFL and CFB is wayyyyyyyy different than the difference between MLB and college baseball. In terms of scale it’s like comparing a 10K to a marathon. I don’t doubt his leadership qualities or his baseball acumen, but the fact that he’s never experienced the grind of a 150+ game professional season, at any level, as either a coach or a player, is pretty concerning. I’d be pretty intrigued if he was going to a rebuilding team that’s on the cusp of a breakout, but for a veteran, high payroll team with playoff expectations, it’s insanely risky.
Which makes me wonder about the desirability of the Giants’ skipper job.
Maybe wait a year or two to move the goalposts to this managerial decision. The free agent thing is true for hitters, but overblown. They got Correa before the medicals and have since taken on three $150M+ deals, two via free agency. The more talent they stack on the roster, the more appealing the team becomes to future marquee free agents. And having watching the Giants flounder at fundamentals and fully tapping into their talent for years, having a young, detail-oriented manager who’s focused on these things gives me some optimism that they’ll extract more from guys like Heliot Ramos. Fewer mental mistakes and blunders, and better fundamentals has often been overlooked as teams chase launch angles, barrel rates, and whatnot
You were first anyway. Lame but first.
HUGE difference between head coach in the NFL and manager in MLB.
There is also a difference between putting together a staff that can recruit high school players and college transfers that have talent and managing at the MLB level. A college coach’s main job is sales and he is not even the main salesperson. That would be the assistants he hires to sell the amateur players on coming to that school.
It will be interesting to see how he does. I think that the learning curve will be steep and the Giants will have to give him a 2-3 year window before they know how he will do.
“I think that the learning curve will be steep and the Giants will have to give him a 2-3 year window before they know how he will do.”
And that’s why I think it’s such a risky hire for a team that’s in win-now mode. Again, would be really interesting for an up and coming type of team. But that’s not where the Giants are right now.
Buster likes to shake things up. Should be an interesting team to watch.
It’s thinking like this that got teams like the the Rockies and White Sox where they are today. Failure to innovate and blind acceptance of the status quo will lead you straight to the basement.
Ad nauseum. Tiring too.
Thats a different sport it won’t work in baseball have fun losing 90 games next year
Posey trying to be “too cute” with this one. Most (not all) of the best managers in baseball are older guys with years and years and years of experience. They’re doing this just to be different.
How exactly is managing a major league team so incredibly complicated that it takes years and years of experience in the majors to handle doing it? The physical speed of the players is greater, but the overall strategy and approach is the same.
He has 25 years of coaching experience, it’s just all been at the collegiate level!!
I wish him well. I hope he succeeds. But the majority of the guys he has coached and we’re fortunate enough to be drafted go to rookie or Class A ball and never see the big leagues. I do love his attitude on fundamentals. From his resume he should be running their minor league instruction. Most organizations could use his acumen in the lower minor leagues.
It’s not about the difference in the way the game is played, it’s about the difference in scale. It’s a 10K vs a marathon. I think a guy who’s never experienced the grind of a 150+ game professional season at any level as either a player or a coach is gonna have a really hard time establishing credibility in the clubhouse. Very risky hire.
King yeah baseball is baseball but there is a difference here. If what you’re saying is true there would be no need for the minor leagues. Differences can be vast when the landscape changes.
Okay Boomer
@ Kirk, FYI, Kirk Rueter is a boomer.
Rueter was born in 1970. He is a peak Gen-X’er!
@kc You are describing Bob Melvin.
He’s not young
Vitelli,47,is fairly but not awfully young.A.J. Hinch was eight days short of his 35th birthday when the D-Backs hired him in ’09.
That’s the equivalent of what…9 years or so of professional baseball at the A+/AA level maybe?
Does this mean Tennessee asks Todd Helton to coach? At least this season?
Aloha folks, I wish Vitello all the best with the Giants as well as his former team, University of Tennessee. Mahalo
IN BUSTER WE TRUST !!!
They used to call me Buster.Perhaps you should trust me !!!!!!!!!!
Pair him with an experienced bench coach and I bet he’ll do fine. The only surprising part for me is that he’s willing to leave job security behind. Posey must’ve showed up at his house in a Brinks truck full of cash.
He was already making $3M/yr. as a D1 coach so yeah.
Add the fact that now he’s gonna be in the show…that’s a pretty big carrot in itself.
He’s had so much success that if this doesn’t work out he can always go back to college and make his money.
The Giants are paying him 3.5 million a year….More than Tennessee but not a lot more…So wasn’t a money thing…
My point exactly.
Was def getting concerned that Vitello would remain at Tennessee. Sports media in Knoxville kept reporting Vitello was getting a lot of local support encouraging him to stay at UT
Vitello coming to the Giants could be the missing link they have needed. Hopefully Vitello will get the coaching staff he needs to be successful
Go Giants!!!
Based. Next up trade Heliot Ramos. He is bad for the team. Bellinger is an upgrade in every way in LF.
Except for the price
Nor do the Giants need another LH swing and miss outfielder. Ramos needs to put his glove on correctly but otherwise the guy can hit.
Except for the second half of last season when he didn’t. 14 HRs in the first half, 7 in the second, and .248/.316/.358, .674 OPS in the second half is not really hitting much.
Bellinger 13.7 % strike out rate
Ramos 22.7 % strike out rate
MLB average 21.9% strike out rate in 2025
Ramos was bad at the plate in 2025 outside of a really strong May that carried his entire stat line. 2024, he had 2 strong months and was a sub 700 ops every other.
Ramos is a slightly above average bat with well below average defense. Make some sense people.
He’s a homegrown outfielder 2 years into his career with 4 years of cheap control remaining. Yes he has a down year or a sophomore slump, but throwing a player like that in the trash bin this quickly is short sighted and potentially quite expensive.
Guy was looking like a 3 WAR player 4 months ago.
He can’t field or run the bases. He has zero baseball instincts. And the bat is massively overrated.
My hope is that a manager like Vitello can get more out of Ramos. He’s talented and works hard by all accounts, but the mental lapses and shaky fundamentals sink his value. Hes kind of the reverse-Mike Yastrzemski, who has less raw talent but is valuable in large part because he excels at all the little things.
If Vitello and Buster are aligned on focusing on fundamentals, I have some hope that will iron out the kinks in Heliot’s game. And the Giants as a team have made lots of little mistakes (especially base running, defense, and situational hitting), so this could be the perfect fit to get more out of what’s already there
Good points. I’d add that Ramos was completely miscast as a lead-off hitter. Not sure why Melvin moved him to the 1-spot in the 2nd half, and kept him there, when his production was going in the tank. He might do better hitting down in the 6th or 7th spot.
My hope is the get rid of him and replace him with a better player. We aren’t a poverty franchise. Trade him for value now.
I wouldn’t be upset if they made an upgrade, and they certainly have the means to make some splashes and write some big checks, but I also think it’s too soon to give up on Ramos. I’d rather invest significantly in pitching and maybe get a right field impact bat before replacing Ramos
One thing I wonder about is that you don’t see very many PR, Dominican or Venezuelan or Hispanic players in general showing up to play baseball in the SEC. They generally go pro right out of high school. For that matter you don’t encounter Korean or Japanese players in the SEC either. Is Vitello gonna be able to relate to and effectively communicate with guys like Adames, Devers, JH Lee, Ramos and Matos when he has virtually no experience dealing with anything other than American college kids? Guys like Devers and Adames have been around MLB for awhile now and make vastly more money than this new manager who doesn’t speak their language and who’s never spent a minute in professional baseball til now.
It’s not just the SEC, it’s all college conferences. South American and Caribbean players (other than Puerto Rican), usually don’t go to college, aren’t eligible to be drafted, and are free agents who opt to sign, and get paid, as teenagers. Asian players are developed in Asia and come to the US fully developed. Not comparable.
And while there aren’t a lot, there are Latin players from Florida, and other places in the US that Vitello coached. I found these players from the last 8 years:
Ariel Antigua
JJ Garcia
Manny Marin
Alberto Osuna
Benito Santiago (not the same from 20 years ago)
Daniel Vasquez
Bob Melvin was trusted to relate to JH Lee, but Vitello can’t be? Some MLB managers speak Spanish, but most don’t. That’s a silly criterium, used merely to bolster the negative argument.
And as I’ve said before, Buster Posey has been a part of professional ball for nearly 20 years, and his opinion, that Vitello can handle the job, is more informed than mine. And I’ll trust his opinion over those posting comments here.
They do speak English. And by the way, the correct way to frame it (if it were true) is that they don’t speak HIS language, aka the language of the country they play baseball in.
Most players from Latin countries appear to speak English, at least on the Giants. The only player other than Lee that required an interpreter, and the only Latin player, was Camilo Doval. Adames, Devers, Ramos, etc. were all comfortable enough to speak English in postgame interviews.
You’re right that it’s better to frame it as speak his language. But, I used the term speak Spanish, in reference to critics of the hire previously asking “…does he even speak Spanish?” So I did not introduce the term, merely repeated it.
I think Ramos’ issues are fixable.
That’s what the hope behind Vitello is. He’ll come in and preach fundamentals, get buy in from the roster. For all the mistakes Heliot made in 2025 he also beat out a lot of infield singles and made some great throws. It’s easier to become a better defender than hitter. Worst case he’s a right handed DH for a few years while his salary is low.
Ramos needs to be both a better fielder and a better hitter, if he wants to hold on to his job. Look at his percentile rankings on his Statcast page. He’s good at only 3 things. Hard Hit, Exit Velo and Bat Speed. he’s below average in Barrels, Launch Angle, Squared-up, Chase. Whiff, K, and BB percentiles.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/heliot-ramos-…
Whether he’s fixable or not, I have no idea, but it seems there’s a lot that needs fixing.
Kirk
I had had this exchange with Jean before.
Giants are not getting much trading Ramos. When Matos is ready or Belli or Tucker (not likely) are acquired, Ramos still adds value as a fourth outfielder. I also think the right manager and coaches can teach Ramos better base running and defense.
What do you think another team will give up for Ramos?
Interested to see how this goes, I kind of like what they did.
After ready all the comments so far (23 at this point). I think a lot of people are over valuing the importance of a manager.
Managers are definitely more important than umpires….
@Jerry Hairston Jr’s Toupee
I’m not sure how “weaving” umpires into my comment when I never mentioned anything about umpires is relevant, but let’s play. Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory is better than the wizzard of Oz.
Exactly….
Posey should recommend to Vitello to do what NY Giants HC Tom Coughlin
eventually figured out to do, create a Veteran Players Council. Do it on the first day of Spring Training.
The most important non-player personnel in an organization is the manager.
@websoulsurfer
I would suggest the most important person (non-player) is the GM since they manage the direction of the organization. Scouting, drafting, player development, roster management, and other responsibilities fall under the purview of the GM. The manager is one spoke in the wheel of the organization.
A MLB manager in a successful system sets the organizational philosophy for the team. The GM, or today the POBO, has to fit players within that organizational philosophy. That philosophy is not just at the major league level, because the team needs to be committed to developing players with that philosophy ingrained so when they get to the majors, they are able to plug into the system of the manager that is there.
The very player development you spoke of is based on what the MLB manager sets down as the type of player and attitude he wants on his major league squad. Even the scouts are told what to look for in terms of skills and attitude in prospects they are taking a look at. Roster management is part of that philosophy set by the MLB manager as well.
Anyone who thinks that a major league manager just takes his cues and orders from the POBO has no understanding of how the organizational structure of a MLB team works.
@websoulsurfer
*A MLB manager in a successful system sets the organizational philosophy for the team.” No. A manager implements the on field game plan.
*The GM, or today the POBO…”. They can be 2 separate jobs. The GM runs all baseball activity within the organization. The POBO is responsible for the business side of baseball. TV contracts, stadium renos, promotions, that sort of thing. The Jays are an example of this style. The Braves are a combination of the 2 roles into one.
Everything you wrote in the second paragraph is wrong. Roster construction, scouting, and player development are the responsibility of the GM/POBO, not the manager.
As far as your conclusion of your 3rd paragraph, well, someone sure has no idea of the responsibilities of the roles in a baseball organization. Re-read my previous paragraphs to see who that is.
Saint, Web is right on this one. Take the L and move on.
@BaseballisthebestCancel
You really think the manager sets the organizational philosophy, scouting, player development, et al are the responsibility of the manager?
Then why does the GM hire and fire managers?
Yes, the GM hires someone to set the overall philosophy of the organization. It may fit with the GM’s ideas, see Shildt in San Diego, and it may not fit with the GM’s ideas, see Melvin in San Diego.
That is how it works. The GM’s job is to fill the organization with coaches that can teach that philosophy and with players that buy into or personify that philosophy with skills and mindset. That is the reason that coaches and players up and down the chain are moved more when a new manager comes into an organization than at any other time.
A GM hires the people that help the organization meet its ultimate goals in terms of wins and making money.
So you doubled down on uninformed instead of taking the loss. Predictable but preventable. Have you ever read the man’s bio on his blog? Just a guess, but after working 40+ years in baseball he may just know that part of the sport and this discussion better than you do.
@websoulsurfer
LOL.. Coaches don’t teach the corporate philosophy. They teach players how to improve their skills. That’s their job. At least you’ve changed your position on that.
A quick Google search on Giants organizational chart returns this:
“The San Francisco Giants’ organizational structure is led by CEO and President Larry Baer, with Buster Posey as President of Baseball Operations and Zack Minasian as General Manager. Other key positions include Jeremy Shelley (Senior VP, Assistant GM), Farhan Zaidi (President of Baseball Operations), and a number of other vice presidents and directors overseeing areas like analytics, scouting, player development, and legal.”
The manager is listed under coaching staff. If the manager was responsible for the things you claim don’t you think he would be listed higher?
@Baseballisthebest
Couldn’t answer any of my questions could you.
Your sock is showing BTW.
NoSaint, You are wrong. Now say goodbye.
3 strikes and you are out.
@websoulsurfer
You often run away when facts are posted? Or did you even do a google search on the org. chart thing? I’m guessing no. Facts tend to shatter belief structures. I’m guessing that your belief structures can’t handle facts.
Support your argument with facts. Just like I do.
@Baseballisthebest
Oh come on.. at least post a tacid denial. You post within minutes of his post and mention his bio. Who google searches user names on a chat board ?
So sad. Next post, come back as webby.
Those ideas are so old fashion!
Take the advice of the baseball men who are telling you to take your loss on this one! They know ball!
Or maybe your way is how they run MLB organizations on Planet Venurn.
@Huh?
Baseballisthebest used practically the same verbiage as you and posted around the same time. None of your other identifies answered my questions either. Do you really think like the “others” that the manager controls scouting, player development, and roster management?
Come back as webby next time
Well I can’t speak for the verbiage of baseballlististhebest. All I know is that baseballlististhebest always has the best baseball lists you can find anywhere!
But what you’re talking about is antiquated concept! That’s how they used to do things back in the 1870s many decades before the dead ball era even began.
@Huh?
So you do think the manager controls, is responsible for and provides direction for scouting, player development, roster management, et al.
At no point did you offer any facts to counter his information. You offered your opinion. His cred is public. Where is yours? Where are actual facts to back up anything you said? An organizational chart without detailed job descriptions doesn’t help your argument.
Steve Philips, who was a major league GM, laid out what a manager’s and POBO’s roles are really well on his show earlier this week. You should go give it a listen. Maybe you could learn something.
Several great books on the job of the major league manager although reading an entire book might stretch your attention span past its breaking point.
Unlike you, I actually want to know who I am talking to on this site. He has posted detailed information on here about the way teams operate and specifically how scouting works and I wanted to know who he was and how he knew that information or if he was full of it.
On the other hand, you are totally anonymous. Nothing to establish who you are or why I should trust your opinion.
If multiple people are conversing about a very specific subject the chances are that their verbiage will be similar.
Some advice. Grow up. Open your mind. You might just learn things you didn’t know.
@Baseballisthebest
“At no point did you offer any facts to counter his information” – I copied and pasted the text of a google search of San Francisco Giants Organizational chart. He’s posted nothing to support his argument.
“An organizational chart without detailed job descriptions doesn’t help your argument.” – incorrect. An org chart graphically the reporting structure of an organization. Job descriptions aren’t required to see you report to.
Branch Ricky, might have heard of him, had this written about him. “His job title was business manager; the general manager role in Major League Baseball had not yet been developed. Regardless, Rickey’s purview and skills spanned farm system development, roster construction, scouting, player acquisition and development, and business affairs – all among the varying responsibilities of 20th-century GMs.”. All responsibilities of the GM and not the manager. He also signed, developed, and brought a guy named Jackie Robinson from the AAA Montreal team to the majors.
Street cred? He writes for a major publication like ESPN, MLB, MLBTR? Or has he broken news about player acquisitions. And how do you know about him? Randomly google commentators handles? Like I said, your sock is showing.
How’s your attention span doing?
“Unlike you, I actually want to know who I am talking to on this site.” First accurate thing you’ve said.
“…I wanted to know who he was and how he knew that information or if he was full of it.”
Yeah there’s a term for finding people on the internet that you think are interesting. It’s a legal one.
What OP doesn’t understand is that playing baseball is just like any other job. If your supervisor doesn’t care, then you can clock-in and collect the paycheck. Your team will certainly not be all that productive. But if your supervisor cares, then they’ll hold you accountable for your work. And inevitably, your department will be successful, because you have a responsible manager. So of course, the team manager is important, because they are the direct supervisor that gets the whole team to play to win.
I’ve had jobs where the manager didn’t give an eff, and some of my co-workers just stood around watching the clock and gave minimum effort. Then as soon as the manager was replaced by someone who cared, the team’s production went up and the company made more money. Work is work….
@Jerry Hairston Jr’s Toupee
“What OP doesn’t understand is that playing baseball is just like any other job.”
If my company provided me nutritionists, conditioning coaches, personal trainers, and the like in a company own facility then you might have a point. Seeing my company doesn’t provide this army of specialists to improve my “game” (I don’t know of a company that does), your comment is patently absurd.
Reaching to history to learn for the present, Casey Stengel was at the helm of the Yankees dynasty of the 1950’s. Then went on to be the manager of the expansion Mets, and they were horrible. As an aside, one of my favourite Stengal-eeses is “we’re getting better. Now we’re losing in extra innings.” Did Casey (Hall of Fame manager BTW) forget how to manage? Was he just running out the clock? Or as Occam’s Razor teaches us, the simplist explanation is usually the right one. Remember Mike Redmond of the Nats a couple back? Manager of the year and a couple of years later managing in Asia (I think).
So that’s history and Occum supporting my contention and a faulty premise that baseball is just like any other job supported by anecdotes is your position.
Jerry, which is why I was so surprised that the Giants, a team known for stressing fundamentals all those years under Bochy and even Kapler, hired a guy like Melvin who didn’t even require mandatory for the players on the team.
Vitello sounds like a guy that will at the very least get back to preaching and practicing the fundamentals. Looking at some of the players on that team I think it’s going to rub some the wrong way. It is going to be interesting.
MLB is not like any other job in one major regard and a huge secondary regard. #1 is that the guys that are there have had to show extraordinary commitment to doing things others players won’t just to get there in terms of preparation and mental toughness. They are the 1% of all professional baseball players in the world. #2 is that they are paid huge sums of money.
Well, you’re assuming Stengel and Redmond’s motivations and mental states stayed consistent throughout the years without even knowing them. Try again….
But like any other job, complacency can easily set in once you’ve secured employment and a fat paycheck….
Never heard that said about any job where just to have that job you are one of the top 1200 people out of millions worldwide that do the job.
It takes far too much time, effort, and commitment for all except a handful to get complacent. It is far too easy to lose your job if you slack off even a tiny bit.
Everyone at some point takes life for granted til it gets taken away. No one is immune….
@Jerry Hairston Jr’s Toupee
I’m not assuming anything. You are attempting to introduce extrainious information in an attempt to deflect and distract from your original disproven points. Since you’ve introduced their motivations and mental states in their decline as managers, please cite your sources detailing this decline. Again, Occum’s Razor. The simplist explanation is usually the right one. Managers don’t have the impact on teams that people think.
BTW, your post is an example of Hitchens Razor. That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed with out evidence.
I tend to believe the players who laud the manager in interviews after winning championships. I’ve yet to see any player say they won a chip despite the manager or that any manager could have coached their team to victory. But go ahead and keep believing that the manager doesn’t matter….
@Jerry Hairston Jr’s Toupee
And there it is. The next step in the process.
“But go ahead and keep believing that the manager doesn’t matter….”.
Putting words in your opponents mouth in a further attempt to deflect and divert from your disproven point. You can’t show any of my posts where I used those words or words to that effect.
I already know what your next post will be so let’s save the time and effort on both our parts by you not responding to this one.
Why do GMs even bother to go through exhaustive efforts to find the right manager if it’s not all that important anyway? As if they just pick a name out of a hat. But just keep believing the manager isn’t important….
Love how your life is a debate and your world is just an argument. Oh, must win, must win. Typical….
@Jerry Hairston Jr’s Toupee
Oh…my…gawd!
I chided you for putting words in my mouth in my previous post and in your next post you continue asserting words I have not used. To be clear, I never said the managerial selection process wasn’t important.
@Jerry Hairston Jr’s Toupee
And there it is. The next step. The insult, the dismissiveness. Trying to bring me down to your level or worse, irrelevancy. You lost this because you make a point that was unsustainable and I called you on it. This is all on you and nothing to do with me.
For the record, the correct question to ask was, why do you say that people are over valuing the importance of a manager.
Have a good day.
By your reasoning, players and GMs are just as overvalued because they don’t win championships every year. Enjoy stroking your ego while you live life like it’s speech and debate class. Seriously….
It’ll be interesting to watch him get acclimated to life in the bigs….
Gotta be a real thrill for him.
Enjoy the honeymoon.
See you on the diamond.
Isn’t he already married? To a woman?
I don’t think a San Francisco honeymoon is in the works!
Pardon my expression, ala the calm before a possible storm.
I mean give him a chance. They just had Melvin and it didnt work. Sometimes this works.
It’ll be interesting to hear what Vitello said and did in conversations to convince Buster he’s the right guy.
Well what he said about fundamentals and coaching sounded good to me.
This has a very good chance of going bad fast
Why?
Lots of these older coaches and managers spent many years coaching MILB teams for a shot at the big league Manager job. Vitello is no different. He spent all his learning as a good College coach. Not much different than working your way through the minor leagues. 25 years experience in NCAA is a pretty good resume. I like the hire. And we trust Buster.
Gabe Kapler Lite
The only thing Kapler has over Vitello is a more muscular physique. He should have been working out for a stronger brain though. Kapler worked out each day while while Farhan wrote the lineups. I honestly don’t think Kapler manages another game in MLB.
mab51357—-I haven’t posted here in years and I come back today and the same misinformation is being posted that was being posted years ago. There were 1000 interviews with both Kapler and Zaidi and KAPLER made the lineups not Zaidi. It’s ridiculous to keep repeating this, it’s completely false.
Hey agnes, it’s good to see you posting again.
So good. Agnes should stick around.
Hey Hello Agnes !
Don’t despair, this site like the country is still in the habit of misinformation and repetitive keyboard attacks. The good news is SFG has a young manager with a successful past. Good to hear from you. Hope all is well with you and yours.
Agree totally…..I’ll have to mute that mab person…….
Hi Jean! Thanks good to see you too 😊
Hope all is well with you too oldgfan!
I’m pumped about the TV hire, lets go!
Well put.
I think if Kapler had managed the Giants for the last 2 years the Giants win more games. Kap didn’t care if he ruffled feathers, he put out a lineup to win a game; BoMel kept trotting out the same guys, batting 3rd or 4th like Soler or Chappy during a slump.
Giants fans know, Kapler was scapegoated. BoMet managed himself out of his job.
One last shot: FZ never hires Vitello because his spreadsheet wouldn’t have let him. Kudos to Buster for this so-called “Risky” hire.
kapler’s mind and strategy weren’t the issue, it was that it is hard to inspire a dugout when you are trying to prove that you are a real human man from the country of earth,
It’s certainly an outside the box move. Good luck to him and the Giants!
WOHOOOOOO!!! I love this!
One of my people! 🇮🇹
Time for some spice!
Welcome to SF Tony!
Ha ha. Nice to see you, Agnes.
Hand gestures are on the way !
Here we go. Buster keeping it lively. It’s good, but I’m petrified. No chance I’m writing Tony off but my FO guy, Samson, was very dismissive of the concept. Zero to inverse correlation from college to mlb and predicted he won’t last his contract. Ouch. It was a tough listen. Never mind. Good luck, Tony .
Hey foppert, I see you are on your 3rd iteration lol (foppert3).
I think every situation and every person is unique, you cannot compare past college to pro coaches and say with any certainty that this will be Vitello’s fate also.
It’s a hell of a lot better choice than some boring old fart. It’s risky but ballsy, I love it.LFG!!!
Yes indeed. The number indicates the number of times I’ve been banned ! Ha ha. I like the system.
Yeah I’m good. Samson crushed me but I’m fine with it. Much rather this path than a retread. The man’s obviously got something going for him. Thinking the clubhouse is humble enough to work with him so let’s get into it.
I hate to ask. Maybe I’ve lost interest in reading the whines. As Agnes lost interest (good to see your post Agnes) BUT who is Samson?
David Samson. Ex Marlins POBO. Front office guy for 18 years. Does a daily podcast explaining to the fan what’s going on in front offices. Does it well.
thx.
Hey Fopp and Agnes, I personally ignore the trolls because they are aplenty, especially involving anything to do with the most beautiful city in America.
Nice to see you back Agnes, even if it’s just for a wee visit. It’s a bold move by Buster. My concern is whether the veteran’s buy into his approach. Bringing in Scherzer might help. But hopefully the veterans appreciate Vitello. Certainly no one has higher energy than Adames and Gilbert, so that helps. Anyway, Kudos to Buster for being cutting edge.
This is a gutsy hire and I’m all for it. I give both Buster and Tony a big thumbs up.
Hey Wilmer. I think you would have to be a first class Richard for Webb, Adames and Chapman not to give you buy in. Pretty solid individuals.
Hey Wilmer, I’ve missed you! It’s good to see you too! I’m into this hire, there will be some bumps in the road but it feels like a journey I want to take, it’s fun and exciting, not at all boring!
Go Tony, Go Giants!!!!!!
Absolutely, if Webb, Adames and Chapman are all in I think it will be a fun ride. The Tennessee prospects are a nice twist. Everyone of them is a prospect of some degree. Gilbert is fun. Tidwell might be starting for the Giants at some point in 2026. Kilen will be interesting to watch progress through the minors.
Hey Agnes! The Vitello signing is way out of the box, so that’s a good thing for me. It was looking like the stars were aligning for a Boch swan song for a minute but Buster was thinking long term and I’m definitely on board with that. I watched a couple of random interviews with Vitello just to get an idea of who he is and he seems really cool.
Samson hasn’t yet gotten over getting fired from the Marlins in 2017. He’s still talking about “we”. Front offices’ processes and philosophies have changed since then and the Marlins weren’t exactly pioneers under Loria, Samson’s former stepdad.
Ha ha. No he hasn’t. No fan of Jeter that’s for sure.
I like him because he draws a good picture behind the scenes but he’s also full of drivel which I can only take in small doses.
Great pictures. Clear. No interpretation required.
So your FO guy doesn’t like it, but Posey does, as does Max Scherzer. Both of whom I’m more familiar with than your FO guy. I’m sure there are many differing opinions. But, IMO, buster is a very smart guy, so I’ll trust that he’s not doing something stupid. It may not work out, but that’s true for any hire. There are no sure things.
Yeah. I’m aware. He doesn’t know him. Still hurt though. I value his opinion.
Just on that, Jean. One of the things I love about Samson is zero fear of being wrong. Keeps a record of his predictions on a spreadsheet. If you want, you can check out his win/loss record. Ha ha. Very refreshing.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t mind that he has an opinion contrary to mine. And I respect anyone that can admit their mistakes. I just have a lot of trust in Posey, and though it might not work out, I’m sure the hire isn’t a stupid thing to do.
How well does Samson know Vitello. What I read about Vitello on Baseball America made me feel really good about his hiring.
All good. Next up is reading that article.
Read it. No longer petrified.
Feel good everywhere in that article. Thanks.
Sign Luis Robert to play CF. Move Lee to LF. Trade Ramos, Whisehunt and another prospect for bullpen help. Sign Yaz for RF or as 4th outfielder. Starting RFer? Matos.
…or Laureano
I, like many are still intrigued by Robert, but he isn’t a FA. The WSox were still asking a lot in trade.
Lee has more value in CF. He doesn’t have the bat for a corner position. I would absolutely not trade Whisenhunt for a bullpen piece.
As much as I like Yaz, he’s not really suited for Oracle. I’d like to see him play in a park that’s a better fit. I do still believe in Matos, and would hate to see them give up on him. He has the potential to be much better than Ramos.
JM-I know it’s a small sample with Gilbert but he looked good in CF.
I hate to give up on Matos too and I’m glad we have more options in the outfield than we have in a long time, it still is a bit of a mess.
The new staff has a lot of work to do this winter…
Not a free agent. Padres can and will exercise a cheap team option on him for 2026 (8M I think)
Baggs’ Athletic article quotes Pat Murphy: “Everyone’s (going to) say, ‘How can this work? You can’t go from harness racing to thoroughbred racing.’ Oh yes you can, if you know what you’re getting into and that horse can run. I think it’s a great thing for the game. … The Giants are not stupid. They’re not throwing a dart at the board. They’ve done their research and they believe the guy can do it. So I’m gonna say he can do it.”
Vitello should bring a new level of excitement instead the boring Giants under BoMel
Much rather have a different kind of manager than the same ole retreads teams tend to hire. Vitello’s def worth the risk
This is baseball, not football. Baseball managers do a lot less than people seem to think, especially with the advent of the DH
I see no reason that a college coach wouldn’t excel as a big league manager. Pat Murphy had a similar start to his career as Vitello
Yes, but eight years as Counsell’s bench coach before his promotion.
Also a long time minor league manager.
Pat Murphy had 5 years as a minor league manager in the Padres system and then 6 or 7 years as a bench coach at the major league level before being promoted to manager. In no way are the two situations analogous.
Pat Murphy admitted to not being ready to manage mlb baseball his first stint. This was years after being a minor league manager
It will be interesting to see .. from the time Spring Training opens.. to the first Spring Training game. (For about a week and a half.. before the ST games.. the Giants would let you see what was going on during practices in Scottsdale…really miss that..)
Learned a lot from that period of time in terms of a ballclub buying in.. to a new Manager…
I think this is an insanely risky hire. Comparing college baseball to the MLB is like comparing a 10K to a marathon. I think a guy who’s never experienced the 150+ game grind of a professional season, at any level, as either a player or a manager, is going to have a really hard time establishing credibility in the clubhouse. Not to mention the fact that almost all the players he’s ever coached were 18-22 year old upper middle class white kids from rural and suburban backgrounds, and now he’s gonna be coaching grown men making millions of dollars per year, half of whom are from Latin American countries. Does he even speak Spanish? If he was taking over a rebuilding team on the verge of a breakout, I’d be pretty intrigued. But for a high payroll veteran team with playoff expectations? It feels like boldness for the sake of boldness, it could be brilliant or he could lose the clubhouse by July. Not a risk I would take.
so what you are saying is that he is destined to fail because he can’t handle 3 veteran players? the giants have devers, chapman and adames as veteran players on the roster and adames is probably the most easy going guy there is. Also just fyi the giants aren’t a high payroll team they have been outside of 1 year a middle of the pack payroll pretty consistently
Where did you read “destined to fail?” I said it was really risky. It could be a brilliant hire. But I don’t love how much potential variance there is.
Most big league managers do not speak Spanish.
I find the thought that he would not have credibility in the clubhouse because he hasn’t had the “grind” of sitting there managing 150+ games per year to be funny
I really think people are overthinking this
Every other manager in baseball has spent their entire adult life in professional baseball. I promise you every single one of them is at least passably bilingual.
I think this is both a sane AND risky hire.
There are no guarantees but fortune tends to favor the bold.
You have repeated basically this exact comment like 4 times on this article. Please stop posting it
This either works out or fails spectacularly. Time will tell…
I haven’t seen Posey do anything “smart” yet, unless you think signing Adames to a contract that will cost the Giants $31M/year from 2027-31 was smart. And hurting pitching depth by trading Harrison (141 ERA+ with Boston) instead of helping him. And gutting the bullpen and then watching as their replacements pitched the team out of the playoffs. (In return getting a sore-armed pitcher, a catcher who can’t catch and an outfielder who can run fast and cheer loud but, unfortunately, can’t hit.) Still waiting for the smart Posey to show up.
EBJ, Harrison pitched all of 12 innings for the Sox. That 141 ERA+ means nothing with that microscopic sample. Over his 3 year career he has a 91 ERA+. He faced the A’s, Rays, and in his last start against the Tigers lasted only3 innings, giving up 3 runs on 7 hits. You make it seem like trading him was like trading Paul Skenes.
And I love how you leave out trading Harrison got the Giants something they sorely needed, an elite hitter. In that ballpark, pitching is a lot easier to acquire than a hitter like Devers.
This either fails, or works out spectacularly. Yes, time will tell.
This either fails or works out spectacularly or somewhere in between. I think the latter has the greatest probability.
According to Baseball America, he “built Tennessee like a pro franchise, recruited like a front office with ample financial backing and coached like he was sure college baseball was merely the sport’s next great developmental frontier.”
And: “In an era when college players reach the majors faster than ever and with the draft possibly shrinking again in 2027, the distance between the SEC and the show has never been smaller.”
And also: “From the moment he arrived in Knoxville…Vitello began building Tennessee as if it were a major league organization disguised as a college program. His first step was assembling a staff fluent in analytics and data—long before that became standard across the college game.”
Though not a sure thing, I’m feeling pretty good about the hire.
Keyword, “recruited”. college, even in the age of NIL, is very different from MLB. In college you sell kids on being king on campus. In MLB you manage a 162-game season with a clubhouse full of guys that are already better than almost every single player on that Tennessee club. Guys that have egos and set ways of doing things that have resulted in them being in the majors. Its not the same.
Well, like I posted, that’s what Baseball America had to say about Vitello being hired by the Giants. They also went on to say that other college coaches were shocked at first, but after some thought, believe the move makes sense.
And sure, things will be different in SF than they were in Knoxville, but that doesn’t make the transition impossible. I’m sure he’ll get full support from Posey, and he’ll also be supported by an experienced bench coach and staff.
The jobs are different. Day and night different.
It doesn’t make it impossible. It makes it extraordinarily difficult and unprecedented.
I wish Vitello luck. I hope he can do it.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the level of difficulty. If I thought it was as difficult as you portray it, I wouldn’t feel as good about the hire as I do.
You shouldn’t feel as good as you do. There are reasons it’s never been done before, and degree of difficulty is at the top of the list. Skillsets necessary to do each job well, which are diametrically opposed, is another.
I wish Vitello all the best. I would love to see someone break through after nearly 80 years of integrated baseball.
Saying it shouldn’t be done because no one else has done it is a poor reason. Baseball history is rife with people finding success doing something different. Managers and other players told Babe Ruth that trying to hit HRs was not productive.
The best hitter on the team used to bat 3rd and even 4th. These days more and more are batting 2nd and even leading off. People would have thought the manager crazy for batting Ruth Leadoff.
Relief pitchers used to be brought in only when the SP was getting blown up. it was believed that it was better to have the SP go as deep into the game as possible. Bringing in a reliever was not a tactical move until the latter part of the 2oth century. And it’s this century when teams regularly take their starter out before the 3rd time through the lineup.
Most every innovation was first used contrary to standard practice and then was copied by the other teams. Something not ever being done before just isn’t a good reason.
Didn’t say that. Said you probably shouldn’t feel as good about it as you say you do.
Because it’s never been done before and all the reasons why it was never attempted before now.
The Babe Ruth analogy doesn’t fit. Ruth played professional baseball. Vitello never played, coached, or managed professional baseball and it’s not the same game or job.
After reading the comments by Scherzer, and other guys now in pro ball that he coached, I feel even better than I did before.
As H.L Mencken once said, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.”
My whole point was not doing something because it’s not been done before is a way to never innovate. It’s a poor reason not to try something if the one making the decision sees a real possibility for success.
The Ruth analogy was about doing something different than what everyone else was doing in MLB, not about experience.
A good analogy is having a skillset to make you a good team spokesperson or on-air personality and being made the starting shortstop. Or being the best salesperson in your company with a degree in marketing and being made the CFO
The Ruth analogy is still a bad one. Ruth started hitting home runs because he was physically capable, the ball changed, and the ballparks changed in the span of just a few years.
Those are really bad analogies. Much more different than that between a college and MLB manager.
And the reason why Ruth starting hitting homeruns is irrelevant. The analogy is good because what he did was contrary to standard practice.
Back then it was preached to make contact with the intent of simply getting on base, since it’s easier to get a base hit than hit a HR. The wide-held belief in baseball was that if every batter used that approach it was the way for the team to score the most runs.
So coaches and teammates were saying to Ruth it’s a mistake to try and do things differently. And, that’s exactly what you and the other critics of the hire are saying about it.
Next thing will be Elementary coaches to MLB coaching staffs
Word has it Abbott Elementary has an outstanding bunting instructor/first base coach that’s available.
Sign him up
84-78 here we come!
83-79 got the Reds a WC berth.
That’s what I’m talking about!
Well actually I’m hoping for more improvement. Something like 88-74. But if it’s 84-78 and gets the Giants a WC berth, I’ll be happy.
My real wish is to have two under.500 teams in the World Series. Then maybe we do away with this tournament and just have top 4 or six teams.
Don’t hold your breath because that’s never going to happen. Since the expansion of the playoff format no team with a sub-.500 record has made the PS, except for the odd 2020 season, and barring an extremely shortened season like that, probably never will again.
From never to probably never.
Remember that MLB wanted two more playoff teams and the players said no or it would happen.
It can happen. All the playoffs need is two sub 500 teams to get hot.
If you read correctly you’d see the never, and probably never, were for two different things.
The never was for two sub-.500 teams meeting in the WS.
The probably never applied to a sub-.500 team making the playoffs. The Reds this season at 4 games over represent the worst record to make the PS.
Why say never when it could happen.
I say never because it won’t ever happen.
Theoretically possible in weak divisions or a unusual season. But thanks for playing Karnac.
If that ever happens I will gladly admit I was wrong. I’m confident that I won’t have to though.
Agreed. Probably not but a guy can dream can’t he?
Absolutely.
Rumor has it Vitello is going to hire his high school hitting coach to join him.
Upgrade.
Honestly, being a SF Giants kinda guy, I’m a huge Posey fan but I’m not so sure he’s really GM material. Hopefully my doubts are wrong but another sabermetric kinda manager after fans screamed to dump Gabe? A fellow GM Minasian, the brother of the Angels GM who managed to squander Ohtani and Trout’s entire career? A young hot head guy for the SF crowd? Doesn’t fit.
Prove me wrong Buster, I’m still stuck rooting for the team.
Not sure you can fault Zack Minasian for his brother’s record. Especially when I doubt any GM could have done better in Anaheim with the interfering Arte Moreno making things difficult.
The fans didn’t scream to dump Kapler, the players did.
Gilbert is a good example of the type of fire that’s coming in (ok, maybe not as wild) but the fans and crowds sure loved Gilbert last year
Geez. Are the Minasian boys former Siamese twins !
Ridiculous thing to hold against him.
Ron Wotus for bench coach might save the day.
the bench coach is probably going to be a big deal when it comes to the coaching staff. if they want to go internal hallberg would be a good guy to put in that position but there are a number outside the org that would be good too.
I love this move. I was wrong on a backup catcher being the target but if Buster likes this guy I’m in. His experience doesn’t matter if the players respect and play hard for him. He will be sitting right next to Buster with plenty of input in the upcoming draft (more than any previous baseball manager in history!)
A backup catcher was the initial target, but he said no to the job. Vitello is the fall back.
Managers are not in the draft room. They have far too much to do to leave the games to a bench coach and go sit in a room with the scouts and FO for more than a week.
If Josh Holliday could coach his way out of a wet paper bag at OSU maybe he’d have had another nepo shot in life with the Rockies.
Huge Dodger fan but i really hope he turns it around. It’s been a long time since the Giants have been consistently relevant.
thanks, things are a lot more entertaining when the rivalry is competitive.
If this goes well, there will be a rush to hire college head coaches as MLB managers. If not, there may not be another attempt for 10+ years.
Risky hire? Sure, but all hires involve some level of risk. I’m intrigued by this hire and wish Mr. Vitello the very best in his new position.
Beware National League, Tony V in SF!😂
This is a really interesting move, college head coach should feed into an MLB manager job but I don’t think it’s ever happened before. Typically when watching college baseball, I think the coaches are putting on way too many plays and overmanaging, but Tennessee had 15 sacrifice bunts and 54 steals in 61 games which seems roughly in line with MLB averages.
feels like his skill set would be a better fit in the minors but as a neutral fan i like the hire because it’s super intriguing. if nothing else posey will have his back when some veteran player takes issue with a rookie manager critiquing his fundamentals
ESPN is selling Vitello on their website as the first college manager to move up to the big leagues. That is not true. The Angels were managed by Bobby Winkles in 1973-74. He did not last even though he was the manager of a collegiate powerhouse, Arizona State, before the Angels. This will end similarly. Collegiate managers just are not used to dealing with major league primadonnas, unions and egos.
I wouldn’t assume that, just because Bobby Winkles failed over half a century ago, that Vitello will as well. Both roles have changed to a tremendous degree since then.
Winkles also managed the A’s and resigned from the team while in first place due to Charlie Finley’s interference.
Winkles was a coach for a year then took over for Del Rice. He had major league experience before becoming the manager.
websoulsurfer, Why respond to me with a point irrelevant to my post. I didn’t offer Winkles as a comp. I simply provided more context to the implication that Winkles got a managerial job and failed miserably. That was a partial truth creating a false impression. I simply wanted a more complete picture of his tenures as a manager.
Jean, I wasn’t responding to you. I was responding to “the old ranger” who was the OP. I wasn’t commenting on Winkles’ coaching record at all, just the fact that he had MLB experience prior to getting a manager’s job.
These threads don’t really tell you who is responding to whom and that does cause issues, especially on mobile.
websoulsurfer, Sorry for the error on my part.
It is so easy to do it on this site and I am sure I am guilty of it as well. I enjoy your comments so keep on taking me to task.
I had something to say but agnes gooch came out of retirement and kicked my arse about Kapler. And even if Kapler wrote the lineups he did way too much platooning. Ok. I’ll wait for agnes gooch to slap me in the head again.
Feels like a good move! I’m curious to see if he’ll help turn things around for the Giants.
I can’t wait to see Giants players doing chants, walking on the field after every homerun, and bumping helmets.
Susan Sussler reports that Willy Adames will start opening day on the bench, a day after catching an infield fly with one hand and performing what appeared to be a bat flip on a hit that turned out to be a double in his final tune-up game of spring training.
Both player and manager declined comment.
The success of this hire will come down to culture. We’ll find out what Vitello will do in that department.
Vitello may be MLB’s version of the late Jim Valvano
I hope it works. As a story, it’s fascinating.
But I’m skeptical. First, these kind of outside the box moves rarely pan out. Oh, they can look like pure genius for a year or two, but not in the long run. Second, “intensity” is great for kids and really young adults. For a bunch of adult millionaires it might work for a little while, as a novelty, but it almost always wears thin. There are a number of qualities that can make a great manager. Intensity can be one, but rarely. Gimmicky motivational nonsense never is.
I’m not a giants fan, so I’ve got no skin in the game. Still, it’s a good story, so I really hope I’m wrong.
The MLBPA is already taking a look at the new team disciplinary policy under Vitello that includes after-practice detention and the suspension of spring formal privileges. This could get ugly…
I fully expect that none of the giants will get to go to spring formal.
Or the October formal.
Former players are getting managerial jobs without any experience. I don’t see how this is more outside of the box thinking than that.
I have mixed feelings about this move; on one side I like Posey thinking outside the box with the ownerships blessing. But on the other side how much of this move will it entice the Giants to make player movement concerning the roster to Vitello’s liking and how much will Vitello have a say in acquiring certain players. Now the next move is where will and who will select Vitello’s coaching staff, will it be ML experienced coaches or more to the level of college coaches. Going to be interesting to see how this works out for the Giants, if it succeeds could we see more ML teams looking that way in the future, if it fails will it set back this Giant organization.
Almost to a player, the Giants players were excited and heaped praise on “BoMel” and how great a human being he was and we named our kids after him and this was a new era of Giants baseball. Two years later, here we go again.
The role, and importance, of a major league manager has changed. Objectively, the manager gets the team in shape in spring training, selects the 25 man roster, and during the season puts out the lineup card and manages the team, particularly the pitching staff, through the games. He’s got to deal with the media and the interpersonal relationships in the locker room. There is not a lot of play calling and game planning, as there is in football, and nowadays most teams rely on their analytics departments for most of those kinds of decisions, including pitching changes. As to developing fundamentals. there’s a huge difference between college and the pros: College players have a lot to learn. Matt Chapman and Willy Adames know more about playing the left side of the infield than Vitello can ever teach them, and players who don’t have most of their fundamentals down while in the minors generally don’t make the majors. The key role of the manager is to have the respect and confidence of his roster. Managers make mistakes or make moves that don’t work out as intended. If you’re Bob Melvin, when that happens players can conclude: he’s been around forever and he knows what he’s doing. With Vitello, SF runs the risk of players saying “does he know what he’s doing?” To be honest, I’m not an Aaron Boone fan. But if you swapped Boone for Dave Roberts, and kept the personnel and front offices the same, I’m not sure the results would be meaningfully different. For the things that a manager can do, I don’t see the upside in hiring Vitello.
Bob Melvin doesn’t know more than Adames and Chapman about fielding the left side of the IF either. Neither Melvin nor Vitello was/will be teaching the guys on the IF anything. ML clubs have IF coaches. And like every coach, hitting, pitching, etc. IF coaches don’t really teach anything, but offer insight based on what they see. Your belief that a manager is going to teach infielders anything exposes your lack of understanding in what a manager does.
Also managers do not make a mistake when a move does not work out. That’s reductive. A good manager will always make a move based on the best odds of success. Sometimes the other team beats the odds, but that doesn’t make the move a mistake.
I do agree that Boone and Roberts, if they switched teams, would basically get the same results. Managers are only as good as the guys playing for them.
The upside of hiring Vitello is his organizational skills, and his experience in what’s become the increasing role of college baseball in developing players for MLB. Something Posey want greater focus on.
I would also think Vitello is smart enough to know he will have to make his own adjustments to the pro game. That education probably has already begun as we chat. I hope he’ll be fine but nobody really knows. Wondering what got Posey thinking of Vitello to start with. In Posey I trust.
That’s interesting about what brought Posey to consider Vitello. My guess is that word has gotten around baseball about Vitello. I think there’s something of a network, where guys get known. I think it’s how guys like Vogt and Suzuki get hired with no experience. And why guys like Hundley are seen as a future managers. The term future manager is one I’ve heard often. Word just seem to get around about guys with ability.
Bronx, Wow! Unraveling how much is completely incorrect in that post would take too long so I am just going to say WRONG!
I really hope Buster Posey just leaves baseball. He is just not good for it. Single handedly responsible for removing one of the most exciting plays in baseball (home plate collision) bc he didn’t know how to block the plate like thousands and thousands of other catchers did with pride for 100+ years.
Seriously go manage a hedge fund or something Buster. We don’t need baseball anymore watered down than it already is.
Nah mate. Narrow minded fans like you are what’s bad for baseball.
Yeah watching guys these days concentrate on how hard they can throw and hit the ball while the art of baseball was thrown out 10-15 years ago is really so visually stimulating while watching on TV. I’m not even mad at you bud you clearly haven’t seen baseball past 2012 or you’d understand the massive difference in the product being presented these days.
Oh you poor thing. How do you cope.
Yeah. It’s called progress. It happens to all sports. This particular situation happened 11 years ago. That’s right, 11. Not 1, not 3, not even 8. 11. That’s how long you have had to get over it and move on. Yet here you are on the internet saying the victim of the shattered leg that started that conversation is bad for baseball. Sorry dude. Farking pathetic.
Did Posey hire a college manager 1, 3, 8 or even 11 years ago? Nope he did it this week. That’s why it’s relevant again right now. Because he has a history of being bad for the game of baseball.
Time elapsed, progress did not occur…the two are not synonymous with each other. Feel free to back it up if you want with whatever evidence you would like to suffice I’m down for a little back and forth if you want to debate.
For one I have provided an example of the “home plate collision” being removed as a point that hurt the entertainment value of baseball. You have yet to provide any facts just weak insults at me. Tell what has improved in the entertainment value of baseball over the last 10-15 years?
Player safety sometimes trumps entertainment for fans. The world is good like that in looking after people. It’s very very simple.
I know you love the collision and you being entertained is very very important, but unfortunately for you, the safety of humans playing the sport takes priority. That’s called progress.
How is hiring a college coach bad for baseball ? How is it watering it down ?
You sure you are not just pissed some crusty old narrow minded mlb lifer didn’t get the gig ?
Player safety? Thousands of game were played every year across the majors and minors and they reduced concussions from an average of 10-11 a year to 2-3 after the Buster Posey rule. That is microscopic change.
You could also just attribute that to more money being in the game and players less willing to put their bodies on the line for a “run”. A “run” might help the team hit in today’s game it is not an important stat to front offices.
See 2 inches down at Dodgersfan post I don’t need to steal his thunder
Reducing concussions by 80% is microscopic ? Are you serious ?
Read that. Doesn’t answer it. Why is it bad for baseball ?
Cmon. Man up and give me some details, tough guy.
Did you just say that was an 80% reduction? My apologies young man I thought you were a little older/more educated.
Intro to statistics…it’s def a a good course for everyone to take in college and will help you understand why that’s not an 80% reduction. Honestly I would even say take the next level courses if the first one comes easy it’s a huge tool to have in your pocket.
Here’s my math. Well go with 10 and 2.
10=100%
2= 20%
A reduction from 10 to 2 is an 80% reduction.
Where did I go wrong super intelligent tough guy ?
No back to the point. Why is Tony Vitello bad for baseball ? Specifics please.
I beg you…take statistics and get back to me
Hoping this is a teaching moment. Here is a website that can get you started that has some useful formulas and methods. It honestly will help you understand benefits and flaws of advanced statistics as well.
hagerstowncc.edu/sites/default/files/documents/13-…
Sure. Hide behind the statistics rubbish if you want.
Now back to the big question. Why is Tony Vitello bad for baseball ? Are you man enough to answer that or are you going to continue showing how weak of an old man you are ?
I told see 2 inches down and read Dodgerfan34 post. I don’t need to regurgitate what he said in my own words. He’s entering a world in the MLB in which he has never set foot and now he’s apparently calling the shots. So you have your “leader” who needs to be shown the ropes and learn on the fly as he’s surrounded with experienced coaches who are there to teach him and guide him when they should just have the dam job themselves if the guy doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Let’s say you’re looking for a new CFO of Chipotle….Would you hire the manager of your local taco shop to take over as CFO of Chipotle?
Also I answered like 3 different ways already you just didn’t have any decent rebuttals so that’s why you’re limited to hurling insults at this point. And dude I implore you to take statistics. It is very hard to have a debate when your numbers are so wildly off.
Yanks4life22, Buster Posey has spent nearly 2 decades in pro ball. In his search for a new manager, in addition to Vitello, he interviewed Kurt Suzuki, Craig Albernaz, and Brandon Hyde that we know of. I’ll omit Hundley since we don’t know whether he would have been hired over Vitello had he not taken his name out of consideration.
Baseball American wrote an article praising the brilliance of the hire. MLB.com interviewed a number of Vitello’s former players, including Max Scherzer, now in pro ball. Each and everyone raved about his leadership skills.
So on one side of the debate we have Posey, Baseball America, and guys with first-hand information about Vitello. And on the other we have guys whose current contribution to the game of baseball is commenting on sites like MLBTR. I include myself in the latter group.
But unlike me, you and others seem to believe you have a better grasp on who the Giants should not have hired. And despite more knowledgeable people being in favor of it, you are sure this will be disastrous. Unlike you I know that I have no idea if this will work out or not. But, I will trust those with superior baseball knowledge. My ego isn’t that big to be sure those people are wrong.
Yanksme:If you were “entertained” seeing players injured, out for the season or ending a career you are pretty sick. Get on Youtube for “entertainment”. Plenty of videos to watch gruesome injuries.
8 or 9 less concussions per year may seem like microscopic change to your sadistic mind but that’s 8 or 9 players who may avoid long term complications from too many concussions over their careers.
Buster Posey with no front office experience hires a manager with no MLB experience at any level. That’s all you need to write.
Holy hell do they not teach statistics to anyone in America anymore? Statistically speaking it’s microscopic!!!!
How many catchers per organization? 15-20 across all levels? 30 teams? 450-600 catchers in baseball across MLB and the minors? Statistics!! Dude statistics take the fan course all of you!!!!
Buster Posey had a 12 year career as a ML catcher. What experience do you have that would convince me that you’re right and he’s wrong?
lol what do you want me to upload my resume?
Listen….I’m sorry I offended you guys. But even though your feelings are hurt right now your Buster Posey rookie card’s value won’t diminish due to his time in the front office. Best of luck boys and when you get to college don’t forget what I told you about statistics (hopefully you forget the math you were so sure of though)
It’s not about how many catchers there are in pro ball. It’s about the number of catcher injuries before and after the rule change.
Do you know that today, right now, catchers spend more time on the IL than they did before the Buster Posey rule was implemented? Did you know there are more career ending/altering plays at home plate now than before?
And let me tell you why I think that is….they block the plate like morons (ala Mr. Posey)
That’s a wrap for me guys I’ll see you in the next thread this one’s beaten to death.
Upload your resume? Please. That’s a weak attempt to imply you have a resume that qualifies you to speak expertly on baseball. If you had a resume that did, you wouldn’t be on MLBTR making insipid comments. LOL indeed.
And here’s a tip: don’t tell other what they feel. You have no idea whether anyone feels offended or not. Annoying? Somewhat, maybe to the level of a gnat. But you’re really full of yourself if you believe you have the influence to offended anyone. Especially those that don’t take you seriously in the least.
Don’t expect me to engage you in another thread. You’re just not worth the effort.
Well that is quite fair sir. I’m sorry I rubbed you the wrong way (trust me I have a habit of doing that). You’re a pretty solid poster so I truly didn’t mean to offend you. I generally like to speak in facts so I’m quick to dismiss nonsense or somebodies feelings versus reality (I’m on the spectrum so it’s all about the meat and potatoes of logic and facts for me). I truly hope I didn’t offend you to the point you won’t engage in the future but if so I completely understand.
While I appreciate it, no need to apologize. And no offense taken. I come across the same way at times. I truly appreciate your reply. No harm, No foul. Take care and I’ll continue to engage with you. Thanks
Sorry. Looks like I interrupted your apology to Jean Matrac. Guess I don’t read too well. I thought it was to me. Lol
mab51357, It’s interesting you read that as an apology. I didn’t. I assured him earlier that I was not offended. Him saying I was offended in the first part was dismissive. In spite of my saying I was not he repeats it. He also suggests he rubs people the wrong way because he deals in facts, like I and others don’t.
I don’t want to engage him again, not because of any offense taken, but for his use of argument tricks like “sorry I offended you”. Or the use of completely unsubstantiated opinions, he calls facts. Like Posey incorrectly blocking the plate. Go back and look at the video. Posey is absolutely not blocking the plate. The runner veers to the inside of the baseline with the clear intent of trying to dislodging the ball.
The implication earlier that he has the resume to qualify him as an expert on baseball is total artifice. And then repeats the remark about offending me a third time. If I was truly offended I would consider that a short-coming om my part. No, I’d rather not engage again because if his ignoring facts contrary to his opinion, and his overall disingenuous responses, and that he’s not worth the time and effort.
I completely agree with your reasoning. When I saw his reply I honestly thought he was talking to me. My reply to him was based on the back & forth I had with him. I just finished reading the entire thread with you, foppert, myself and him among others. He behaved like crap to a few of us and actually you deserve a real apology. That will not come because if he was that kind of person he wouldn’t have said some things he shouldn’t have said to start with. Just a hunch. Lol. I make very few comments on other teams threads because unless you are an avid fan that watches a particular team from spring training, watching every game intently clear through the season ends, a person doesn’t see and hear all the facts. His take on Posey is so far off it’s embarassing. Hopefully I haven’t offended you at all. I value you, foppert and a couple others when it comes to the Giants. It’s pretty obvious to me. I always look forward to your input. So please keep the honesty that I and others so repect you for. Have a good evening and I look forward to chatting with you as the offseason kicks in.
Like I said, I don’t get offended by comments here. I’m like you in not making many comments on articles about other teams. Many that do, are only doing so to troll. It appears you try to be unbiased, as do I. I’ve enjoyed your posts and mostly agree with what you have to say. You’re one of the good guys, and why I continue to post. I do despite the trolls that can take talking baseball down to more about insults than baseball.
Thanks for your input Jean.
Actually the apology was to you lol. Sorry these threads are tough to manage on your phone. You were the only one going back and forth with actual arguments with me that made me think on my toes although it was brief and muddled by others. Looks like the first insult hurled my way was removed or edited so kinda tough now to Monday morning QB this now. But even after that I just dug in and debated instead of insulting someone back. If it matters though go back and read everything I wrote, not one insult….maybe they read it the way they wanted or were angry about my response but I never insulted anyone. If anything I apologized once I realized the original poster, who hurled an insult at me, was actually a kid when he didn’t understand statistics.
He chose to engage with me though. If you don’t like what I wrote either move past it or have some back and forth and try to sway me or make me see it in your eyes.
Yanksme: Unbelievably uninformed take on your part. I think the catcher blocking the plate rule was the right move and has saved many injuries over the last 15 years or so. It’s not football where you crash through other players. The injury was gruesome. The rule is a good one whether it was Posey or not. Who wants to see any player injured and out for the season. Maybe you’d have a different opinion if it was the base runner who got the season ending injury. I suggest you do some research on Posey’s career on and off the field. Those that do get to know him respect him very much and trust what he’s doing to lead the Giants. I’m one of those people.
Block the plate right and there is no injury. Block the plate like a moron like Posey did and you get hurt. And than he goes and whines and whines and gets the rule implemented while other catchers were screaming there was absolutely no issue. The concussion list also includes all injuries not just home late collisions. You could easily say concussions are down because strikeouts are up and there are less foul tips into the catchers mask (which is actually true). But the simple mind can only calculate so much. That would be too many levels to digest for you.
Taking a look at this hire, as a Dodger fan this makes me extremely happy. As a baseball fan, it really brings into question Buster Posey’s competency as a general manager. This coach has no major league baseball experience. He has no experience in running a major league franchise, and is going to need surround himself with experience coaches. If you’re going to hire a guy that is going to need a lot of help because he’s never done that position, it doesn’t make a whole heck of a lot of sense. This is Major League Baseball not College baseball. It doesn’t matter how many players went through his system and now are in the big leagues. He has to manage the day-to-day. He is going to get out coached by every single team that he runs up against. This higher is absolutely terrible and I’m so happy that the Giants did it. Buster posey, you are in charge of a feeling franchise and you’re going to make it worse. Kind of like the way you got run over at home plate. Dodger fans say thank you.
how much did the dodgers pay you in deferrment to write that?
Ha ha. Ok then. Giants fans say thanks for that, enjoy the World Series.
So you are saying it’s the blind leading the blind?
@doyer Go buy a bandwagon and take a long ride on a short pier.
Buster Posey doesn’t want an actual manager he wants somebody to implement his plans (much like Cashman and Boone) so this is more of the armchair style of baseball.
So Tony makes 500k a year more ? Not bad but that California tax is like making 1.5 M a year
Dumb move Tony v
$200k more. With his guaranteed media contracts at Tennessee he made $3.3 million.
that isn’t true, as a manager vs if he were in a front office role he going to pay the jock tax meaning he will only be taxed at a higher rate in games played at home. he also supposedly has incentives though those have been undisclosed. also the top tax bracket in CA pays 13.3% not 60%
The effective income tax rate in a state is different than the top marginal tax rate for that state. For example, even though I am in the same tax bracket as Vitello will be in California, my effective tax rate after allowed deductions and tax credits was 4.87% for 2024. That is probably a typical effective tax rate in the top tax bracket, although I read recently in the Union Tribune that in San Diego county it’s 3.75% for those in the highest tax bracket.
Then you have to take into account the rest of your tax burden. Property tax and how its calculated, sales tax, annual government fees, etc…
Like Tennessee, Texas has no state income tax, but property tax is by county and goes up annually. The property tax on my home in California is the same as it was in 1987. In Texas, our home between Austin and San Antonio had a higher income tax both in percentage and total when we sold it a couple of years back than our house in San Diego that is valued 5 times as high. I have no experience with the property taxes in Tennessee, but the state has to get money somewhere and if it doesn’t get it from you in income tax, it will get it from you in other ways. A friend in Nashville said that the entire state had a county-by-county tax reassessment in 2025 and his property tax went up by 35%.
The STATE sales tax in Texas is 6.25% plus whatever the county and municipality adds to that. In California its 6% plus whatever the county and municipality adds to that. Our home in Texas was in an area in the Hill Country with an 8.25% sales tax. In Knoxville where the University of Tennessee is located its 9.25% and in Nashville the sales tax rate is 9.75% with 7% of that being the state sales tax rate. In San Diego its 7.75% and in San Francisco its 8.625%.
Its shortsighted to look at the state’s marginal income tax rate and think you understand what the total tax burden is for any individual.
obvious mistake by not hiring an ex-A’s catcher.. you’d think posey would know better
Giants will have to rely on respected veterans like Chapman, Adames, Webb and a few others to keep the Giants culture while helping Vitello to get some experience under his belt. I’m 100% sure the veterans will called upon for advice. I’ll remember many, many conversations Chapman had with BoMel at the top of the dugout rail over the last 2 years. Chapman is kind of a coach at times. I thought BoMel should have been given 1 more year, which I guess he did monetarily.